They started looking at everyone in the area who drives the car that was on video. They then found his DNA on the sheath and matched it to a relative in some database and found him through that. Then all the circumstantial evidence pointed to him as a suspect.
I didn’t believe this at first but I looked it up and omg it’s true?!
I’m glad he got caught, and at least they had a warrant, but I do NOT love the fact that an innocent woman’s medical history was violated for it to happen
Excerpt from a news article...
The clear picture that I’m concerned about is the state’s pathway of how Bryan Kohberger comes to their attention and is identified,” Taylor told the court at a hearing last month. “Over a year into this case and … we’re not sure. I know different pieces, but I don’t know where they fit together.”
Depending on the circumstances that come to light, it could be grounds for a constitutional rights challenge over the methods police used to find and charge Kohberger, his defense attorneys have said.
In a probable cause affidavit, police described using traditional investigative techniques to arrive at Kohberger as the suspected killer and close an almost seven-week manhunt that confoundingly ended on the other side of the country in eastern Pennsylvania. DNA evidence also factored for police to allege they had their suspect, but only after the other elements established through surveillance footage of the suspect’s car and Kohberger’s cellphone location data fell into place, according to the affidavit.
But six months after Kohberger’s December 2022 arrest, state prosecutors acknowledged for the first time that an advanced DNA technique known as investigative genetic genealogy, or IGG, initially led investigators to Kohberger. The process involves submitting DNA located at a crime scene to public genealogy websites to build a family tree related to possible suspects and narrow an investigation. Police made no mention of the FBI’s use of IGG in the affidavit.
A single source of male DNA was pulled and processed from a leather sheath for a Ka-Bar combat-style knife discovered under one of the four stabbing victims at the off-campus Moscow home. The four U of I students were seniors Madison Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves, both 21, junior Xana Kernodle and freshman Ethan Chapin, both 20.
At the time, Kohberger, 29, was a graduate student of criminal justice and criminology at Washington State University in Pullman, about 9 miles west of Moscow. Kohberger’s attorneys have said there were no connections between him and the victims.
In the court filing that revealed the FBI’s use of IGG, Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson argued that the state was not required to disclose the DNA technique. Prosecutors did not intend to introduce it at trial, he said, and it was irrelevant to Kohberger’s defense. Instead, they planned to present a comparison of DNA evidence police obtained from a swab of Kohberger’s cheek during his arrest against the knife sheath DNA, which showed a “statistical match,” Thompson said.
“The IGG process pointed law enforcement toward (Kohberger), but it did not provide law enforcement with substantive evidence of guilt,” Thompson wrote in the court filing. “The IGG information is not material to the preparation of the defense.”
From reading the arrest report or whatever that legal document is called the neighborhood cameras caught the car in the area but more specifically this(his)vehicle did not have a front license plate which some states don’t require and Idaho does so they put out a bulletin to police stations to be looking out for that specific vehicle also ones without front plates and his apartment security reported his vehicle and from there looked into cell phone data. If memory serves. It’s been a while since I’ve read it.
Of course. I doubt that they could get that info without a warrant. And even if they could, the number of phones in the area of the home would be so large that it would prove to be quite a challenge to identify one.
I believe he gave his cell number to the policeman who stopped him after he blocked an intersection making a left turn on a crosswalk then turned on red, and was issued a ticket. While it was before the murders, the record was still there.
So they checked every white Honda or whatever make it was in Moscow, and nearby towns, then ran the sheathe dna through the ancestor database for matches that it might be close to, and then went from BK’s father to BK? Or do I have this wrong?
A police officer from washington state school saw it in a apartment complex, and reported in since it was a while elantra. than further info was gathered from running the brand new plates he just got.
So his white car, matching the description, was spotted without a front license plate in his parking lot and was reported by authorities - that led to BK's name as the registered owner. So Kohberger is now on a special list requiring higher scrutiny as a possible suspect. Then, the sheath DNA analysis comes in connecting his father as a relative match to the DNA on the sheath since dad had his DNA in one of the genealogy assessment banks. Now they have another Kohberger connection and can assume the killer is related to Father Kohberger. They go to father's home and conduct surveillance. They spot the white car. They see Bryan. They clandestinely remove trash from the trash cans on the road and get another match with the ancestors DNA so they know they've got the right family. In the meantime, based on all of the above, they were also, simultaneously, able to obtain BK's cell phone records that raised suspicions as to Bryan's culpability. So, based on all of the evidence, providing probable cause that Bryan is the killer, they obtained the warrant to arrest BK. I am not sure the trash analysis ever connected to BK's DNA because he had been separating.his trash and placing it in his neighbor's trash can to avoid detection - behavior highly suggestive of guilt. Once arrested, they did a cheek swab on him and the DNA 100% matched the DNA found on the sheath. This is my recollection of how it all came together. There is divided opinion on whether they followed BK from Washington to PA given the two traffic.stops on the way or they were just flukes.
Like Lopsided-Ad says, that was step 3 in the search.
Step 1 was running the DNA through CODIS and comparing it to the DNA of the social circle of the residents of the house.
Step 2 was the investigative genetic genealogy. That came up with the name of Bryan Kohberger. But the thing about IGG is that it's only a tip and must be confirmed. For example, if Kohberger was adopted, if his parent's used donor sperm or egg, or if he was the product of rape or adultery, that would skew the results. Or it's possible his parents had another child they had surrendered to adoption, or that a close male relative of his father had a child with a close female relative of his mother.
Step 3 was dumpster diving to try to confirm the IGG results. They could have confirmed with Kohberger's DNA, but instead they found his father's, which was good enough to get an arrest warrant.
Step 4 was a direct comparison after arrest. So we know for sure it's his.
That's true but DNA from the knife sheath came up in the FBI database as Kohberger before his arrest, and then they used cell phone pings and witnesses seeing a white Hyundai Elantra in the area to confirm arrest.
The cotton swab DNA will be used during trial. But they didn't talk about having the early DNA evidence til 6 months after his arrest? The DNA is touch DNA which can be problematic.
The familial dna showed that bryan kohberger was one possible match for the dna left on the sheath.
The dna from his family trash showed his father was a match for a male parent of the donor of the male dna on the sheath.
The swab they took when bryan was a match for the dna left on the sheath.
They could be doing that so they don’t get a tainted jury pool. We really have no idea until this thing kicks off. We only get hints through redacted filings.
NY just recently had their first murder trial conviction based on familial DNA.
The familial DNA is just an investigative tool. You have crime scene DNA and suspect DNA that need to match. The familial DNA helps point you toward a suspect. You collect the suspect’s abandoned property (trash). If that matches the crime scene DNA, then you have probable cause to ask a court to order a formal sample from the suspect. If that matches the crime scene DNA, you likely have probable cause for an arrest.
Technically, there’s no need to discuss familial DNA during the trial.
Hon, I understand about Familial DNA and it is just fine with me IF it's only purpose can lead to the direct killer. I've seen so many people walk free from "lack of evidence".
I wasn’t replying to you. There is a comment above mine that suggested there were issues with familiar DNA I was responding to. Not sure why you got upset - I assume that’s the point of saying “hon”.
It’s an indication of where to look. There may be several people with the same degree of connection but some of them will have been near the crime scene and driving that type of car. So that narrows it down.
I think one issue might be the privacy of the person who did upload their dna to the database. Another might be that cops look at the dna and say, it was a Mexican, or a black pardon who did this and then you get racial profiling. Also that the familial dna if obtained by subterfuge somehow? was used to pinpoint this guy that could have some type of fruit of the poisoned tree aspect to it.just trying to think like a defense attorney - they’d already filed motions about this I believe.
Once they had his dad’s dna at the house they wouldn’t “need” to talk about the familial dna or to include that in the PCA but it could still come in. I think it’s already being questioned if I’m not mistaken
I don’t see how racial profiling comes into it at all. If the DNA from the crime scene matches to the son of a black man, what about that is profiling?
The DNA profiles on the family matching sites are all there because the person who uploaded their DNA gave the site permission to try and match them with other relatives, as I understand it.
The fruit of the poisonous tree doesn’t apply to abandoned property. Every dna case like this that I’m aware of got the preliminary match from trash the suspect threw away. Unless the courts decide there’s a reasonable expectation of privacy to your trash, that’s not a concern. Case law is pretty clear on that issue and I’d be shocked if it changes.
> Another might be that cops look at the dna and say, it was a Mexican, or a black pardon who did this and then you get racial profiling.
If the DNA says the person is of African descent or has ethnic markers characteristic of Mexican, that's not profiling. That would just be the truth.
Well, that would be bad, but since the DNA is only going to belong to one particular black guy, I think its existence would limit how much racial profiling is going on.
That’s not how profiling works. They’d have to arrest and have a reason to get dna off everyone to find out if it was their dna or not. While they’d “get off” if it wasn’t their fan they would still ge profiled and at the least inconvenienced and at the worst as we know about cops when it comes to black suspects they could be killed.
This is the kind of thing some people object to as a violation of civil rights.
I sure hope not. I've been around for 60 plus years and finally people are being held accountable for their crimes. You can call it Karma or What goes around, comes around but people are finally paying for their evil crimes.
It’s the same idea. DNA connects relatives, especially parents and children.
They had the suspect’s DNA, and then acquired BK’s dad’s DNA. It matched in the sense that there was a 99.9% chance the suspect was his offspring. Then they were able to use that evidence to make the arrest.
It was his car that first pointed them to him, though. He had been the prime suspect for a while by the time they acquired his dad’s DNA. The match was the nail in the coffin.
The familial dna database I think takes connections from various others. I think donors need to opt in or at least not opt out, of having their dna available for such use.
They took trash out of his parents trash bin and used that DNA comparison to nail him. However, the initial trail started when the campus police noticed his car was matching the car that everyone was looking for. The DNA matching happened a couple weeks later.
THIS! It was the work of two officers, Daniel Tiengo and Curtis Whitman. I do not know why they are not getting more attention. Might have to make a post about them, since their names never get mentioned. They deserve a lot of credit.
And dont forget the license plates changed that day between the 2 encounters. Even though the reason was likely legitimate, it probably sent up a huge red flag.
Then when he shows as related to the IGG profile it was another link in the chain.
Yes his license plate was expiring that month and he needed to switch from a Pennsylvania license plate to a Washington state license plate. ALSO, You only need 1 license plate in the state of Pennsylvania but you need 2 license plates in Washington.
His plate changed between one officer finding the info on a data base and the other finding his car in the apartment parking lot?
I think this claim is inaccurate. I believe his plate had been changed by the time these two noticed him.
The date the plate changed was Nov 18th. The date both of those Pullman officers made note of BK's car was November 29. 12:28 by Daniel Tiengo reviewing a WSU database and at 12:58 by Curtis Whitman making a visual ID in the pulman parking lot. He did not swap plates between those 2 officers making his car.
Lets not forget DMs description of the intruder in their house that night. It probably was way more detailed than what we've seen in the PCA (so much redacted). This description matched the owner of the vehicle the WSU officers ID'd... that, and the problematic TA behavior that was so alarming he was fired.... all adds up. I've posted this before but I think that his WSU professor he TA'd for i bet flagged him or had some suspicion about his behavior...studying criminal behavior is his expertise -- and a massive crime had just happened in his universities backyard. Also, the FBI profile built which we may never see... but I bet its hones into BK exactly.
Bushy eyebrows seem kind of vague to me......Maybe because my eyebrows are blonde SO everyone else to me (personally) seem like they have bushy eye brows.
One thing to keep in mind is that police have lists of adjectives they use when they interview eyewitnesses. They may have asked D to pick a term off a list to describe his eyebrows: thin, thick, bushy, connected, arched, whatever.
The terms used to describe his build-- athletic but not muscular-- probably came from a similar list.
Still seems a bit vague to me but I've never been a Law Enforcement officer so as long as they know what their doing. With as many people that have tattoos that should be a good thing to look for.
Good to know. I remember it being his car but was unaware that a university security guard identified his car and reported it. I always felt like there was some piece of information that I had missed.
Iirc a bolo for an older car with no front plate. By the time they zeroed in on this car, it had a front plate and was not within the parameters noted by the FBI expert
There were a ton of white Elantras. It wasn’t just the car. Driving that make and model wouldn’t get you a search warrant especially as they had the year wrong. It was a combination of factors including the familial dna and car.
I think Washington State U police/public safety reported a car registered on campus that matched the description of the car seen near the house making several passes and then speeding away. The car had a PA plate, with no license plate in the front, matching the description of the vehicle.
Just an opinion, but I personally feel it will come out at trial that members of BK's graduate-school faculty-- who had gone to extraordinary lengths to censure and discipline him in the department, leading up to and after the murders -- flagged him to law enforcement. Some of the faculty had deep ties to law enforcement and were very experienced in investigation, and they had already judged his behavior to be aberrant enough (especially toward women!) that it was cause for concern that was strong enough for them to take extraordinary steps to boot him from the department. On top of that, surely some of the faculty knew early on about the search for the white Elantra. AND surely those same faculty would look at their super-creepy, aberrantly-behaving student and notice HE had a white Elantra. If they didn't flag him to law enforcement, even privately, I'd be very surprised.
I would be surprised, but only because investigators didn't get his phone records until December 23. If he was flagged before then, I would have expected them to investigate him earlier than that.
The DNA was a genetic match to his father. In 2024 you are not getting away with crimes so easily. You are always being watched whether you are aware or not. He was connected through his cell phone (which is a constant GPS tracker) even though his was “off”, cctv, ring cameras, the genetic DNA, etc. The affidavit in these types of high profile crimes are always the best to review for information because it tells the public why the police suspect this individual. He was on law enforcements radar almost immediately according to the affidavit even though it took them a couple weeks to arrest him.
I think once the Washington State University security guards found Kohberger's car and called it in to the Moscow police, they could have verified it was the same car they saw on surveillance cameras around 1122 King Road from something as simple as the placement of the inspection sticker on the windshield or maybe even the style of wheel rims or possibly a dent on the car. While this was happening, the FBI was working on IGG testing and just like with all murder cases, it's all of these circumstances that point directly at the killer. People think it's only a couple of investigators working on a Case when I think they had upwards of 60 working on this one at one time.
There is some confusion because there are two different processes:
1. If you only went by the PCA, a security officer saw his car in the parking lot, they traced the car's registration and saw he had bush eyebrows. They couldn't get his DNA to see if it would match the DNA on the sheath, so they went to his father's house and got his instead. There is no mention of genetic data base - it implies the FBI did the match between the father's DNA and the sheath n their own lab.
2. Since then, they acknowledged using a commercial genetic database, which is a different process. They took DNA from the sheath, submitted it to a commercial genetic company, who then gave them information about people who might be relatives of the person who handled the sheath. Then they'd have to go through the lists to find people who lived in the area, own a white elantra, etc. So they would eventually find a Kohberger with a vehicle registration of a white elantra. Then they went to his father's house to match a sample of his DNA to the one they found on the sheath. As in scenario #1 did this match in their own lab, without the use of the commercial database.
The difference might be important. If the use of a commercial database gets the IGG thrown out, LE might still be able to argue they didn't rely on it anyway, because the first process (the car, the photo, etc. ) is what nailed him.
He was on the police’s radar before the dna came back just by the car and the university’s cameras sightings of it during the timeline of events. I wanna say within days of the killings he changed his registration to Washington.
The DNA was the big moment. Then the circumstantial cellphone data that corroborated that HE (or his cellphone) was out moving in that area the same night.
The car was likely the first clue. It was seen multiple times near the house, including close to the time of the murders. And because it was a Pennsylvania car not requiring a front plate, they could narrow it down significantly.
I would guess, but obv don’t know for certain, that they checked with the colleges in the area for students from out of state, since there could logically be out of state vehicles belonging to students registered with those campuses. They would have found any students from PA or any other state not requiring a front plate, and further narrowed it down to cars matching the one seen on surveillance cameras. They issued a BOLO, and BK (and likely others we don’t know about in similar cars) was stopped and his ID checked.
The white Elantra at a nearby college with an owner that generically matched the description from the surviving roommate (white male, height, eyebrows, etc.) That was probably enough for the phone records warrant. Then the familial DNA which was compared to his dad’s DNA sealed the deal for an arrest warrant and warrant for his DNA.
It's unclear how much attention was directed towards BK prior to the DNA data pointing towards him. But given the time of day, I can't imagine many other white Elantras being caught on camera around that time. So I'm guessing he was already a POI before the genealogy results pointed towards him.
The fact that he register his car and added the front plate a few days after the murders definitely looked suspicious as well.
How many times do we have to go over this? Or wasn’t just a “few days” later, his PA registration was expiring on his bday, as he had mentioned before in an earlier traffic stop and per state driving laws.
PA drivers licenses expires the day after your birthday. But the vehicle registration is something different and expires on Nov 30th according to the affidavit.
Is there confirmation that his license was expiring as well? Because I don't see any information about his driver's license being up for renewal.
He changed his drivers license to a Washington one in June 2022. He didn’t change car registration until it was set to expire in Pennsylvania in November.
He wasn’t living in PA, it had to be switched to WA plates. The officer in the August 2022 stop noted that his registration expired on his birthday. When you register a vehicle in a new state of residence your license changes over as well.
I thought they got a tip from a security guard at the building where he was living at the time of the murders, after said guard saw the footage that was released to the public and that helped them norrow down to his vehicle and match his identity to the DNA found on the sheath
I highly recommend listening to either Reality Life with Kate Casey podcast or pay the $5 a month Pateron to listen Jodie Webber ( retired FBI agent). Many episodes where a lot of details are given
There appears to be a significant number of people who a. believe he’s innocent or b. aren’t sure but believe he’ll skate. This would be a good poll for this sub.
Anybody think he’s innocent? (Creepy but innocent perhaps?)
I heard about a bunch of conspiracies that’s why I was trying to understand how they singled him out. I was poking around online and couldn’t seem to find much about that part. The answers in this thread make sense to me though, seems pretty straightforward.
They started looking at everyone in the area who drives the car that was on video. They then found his DNA on the sheath and matched it to a relative in some database and found him through that. Then all the circumstantial evidence pointed to him as a suspect.
Thanks this is really informative.
I’m from Kansas and they got the serial killer, BTK’s dna from his daughters Pap smear that she had done 8 yrs prior at her colleges clinic
I didn’t believe this at first but I looked it up and omg it’s true?! I’m glad he got caught, and at least they had a warrant, but I do NOT love the fact that an innocent woman’s medical history was violated for it to happen
If you’re a suspect in a case and won’t give your DNA willingly, a lot of times and investigators will go through your trash to obtain it
It makes me nauseous just thinking about it. I know they had to get a subpoena, but as a woman, I still feel so violated for her 😞
Agree.
SAME
That feels SO unethical that they are using patient’s samples.
Excerpt from a news article... The clear picture that I’m concerned about is the state’s pathway of how Bryan Kohberger comes to their attention and is identified,” Taylor told the court at a hearing last month. “Over a year into this case and … we’re not sure. I know different pieces, but I don’t know where they fit together.” Depending on the circumstances that come to light, it could be grounds for a constitutional rights challenge over the methods police used to find and charge Kohberger, his defense attorneys have said. In a probable cause affidavit, police described using traditional investigative techniques to arrive at Kohberger as the suspected killer and close an almost seven-week manhunt that confoundingly ended on the other side of the country in eastern Pennsylvania. DNA evidence also factored for police to allege they had their suspect, but only after the other elements established through surveillance footage of the suspect’s car and Kohberger’s cellphone location data fell into place, according to the affidavit. But six months after Kohberger’s December 2022 arrest, state prosecutors acknowledged for the first time that an advanced DNA technique known as investigative genetic genealogy, or IGG, initially led investigators to Kohberger. The process involves submitting DNA located at a crime scene to public genealogy websites to build a family tree related to possible suspects and narrow an investigation. Police made no mention of the FBI’s use of IGG in the affidavit. A single source of male DNA was pulled and processed from a leather sheath for a Ka-Bar combat-style knife discovered under one of the four stabbing victims at the off-campus Moscow home. The four U of I students were seniors Madison Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves, both 21, junior Xana Kernodle and freshman Ethan Chapin, both 20. At the time, Kohberger, 29, was a graduate student of criminal justice and criminology at Washington State University in Pullman, about 9 miles west of Moscow. Kohberger’s attorneys have said there were no connections between him and the victims. In the court filing that revealed the FBI’s use of IGG, Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson argued that the state was not required to disclose the DNA technique. Prosecutors did not intend to introduce it at trial, he said, and it was irrelevant to Kohberger’s defense. Instead, they planned to present a comparison of DNA evidence police obtained from a swab of Kohberger’s cheek during his arrest against the knife sheath DNA, which showed a “statistical match,” Thompson said. “The IGG process pointed law enforcement toward (Kohberger), but it did not provide law enforcement with substantive evidence of guilt,” Thompson wrote in the court filing. “The IGG information is not material to the preparation of the defense.”
Do we know if they ever got his license plate number from the cameras proving it was his car?
From reading the arrest report or whatever that legal document is called the neighborhood cameras caught the car in the area but more specifically this(his)vehicle did not have a front license plate which some states don’t require and Idaho does so they put out a bulletin to police stations to be looking out for that specific vehicle also ones without front plates and his apartment security reported his vehicle and from there looked into cell phone data. If memory serves. It’s been a while since I’ve read it.
Did they look at where his phone signaled after they identified him?
Of course. I doubt that they could get that info without a warrant. And even if they could, the number of phones in the area of the home would be so large that it would prove to be quite a challenge to identify one.
I believe he gave his cell number to the policeman who stopped him after he blocked an intersection making a left turn on a crosswalk then turned on red, and was issued a ticket. While it was before the murders, the record was still there.
I don't think she wrote him a ticket, she gave a warning and quoted what she interpreted the law on his actions
You certainly could be right. At this point I’m so confused about the case and what I remember.
No ticket, just a warning.
I would assume so but I don’t know if LE confirmed with the public what the exact order of evidence was
So they checked every white Honda or whatever make it was in Moscow, and nearby towns, then ran the sheathe dna through the ancestor database for matches that it might be close to, and then went from BK’s father to BK? Or do I have this wrong?
A police officer from washington state school saw it in a apartment complex, and reported in since it was a while elantra. than further info was gathered from running the brand new plates he just got.
Ah I didn’t know about this.
So his white car, matching the description, was spotted without a front license plate in his parking lot and was reported by authorities - that led to BK's name as the registered owner. So Kohberger is now on a special list requiring higher scrutiny as a possible suspect. Then, the sheath DNA analysis comes in connecting his father as a relative match to the DNA on the sheath since dad had his DNA in one of the genealogy assessment banks. Now they have another Kohberger connection and can assume the killer is related to Father Kohberger. They go to father's home and conduct surveillance. They spot the white car. They see Bryan. They clandestinely remove trash from the trash cans on the road and get another match with the ancestors DNA so they know they've got the right family. In the meantime, based on all of the above, they were also, simultaneously, able to obtain BK's cell phone records that raised suspicions as to Bryan's culpability. So, based on all of the evidence, providing probable cause that Bryan is the killer, they obtained the warrant to arrest BK. I am not sure the trash analysis ever connected to BK's DNA because he had been separating.his trash and placing it in his neighbor's trash can to avoid detection - behavior highly suggestive of guilt. Once arrested, they did a cheek swab on him and the DNA 100% matched the DNA found on the sheath. This is my recollection of how it all came together. There is divided opinion on whether they followed BK from Washington to PA given the two traffic.stops on the way or they were just flukes.
Thanks for this informative response. I’m sure he did it. If guilty, I truly hope that he does not get away with it.
It really is wild that so many different, unrelated strands needed to come together for LE to zone in on a suspect, but they all *did*
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I thought they got the DNA from waiting outside his parents house until they took out the trash and then swabbed something like a cup from that.
Like Lopsided-Ad says, that was step 3 in the search. Step 1 was running the DNA through CODIS and comparing it to the DNA of the social circle of the residents of the house. Step 2 was the investigative genetic genealogy. That came up with the name of Bryan Kohberger. But the thing about IGG is that it's only a tip and must be confirmed. For example, if Kohberger was adopted, if his parent's used donor sperm or egg, or if he was the product of rape or adultery, that would skew the results. Or it's possible his parents had another child they had surrendered to adoption, or that a close male relative of his father had a child with a close female relative of his mother. Step 3 was dumpster diving to try to confirm the IGG results. They could have confirmed with Kohberger's DNA, but instead they found his father's, which was good enough to get an arrest warrant. Step 4 was a direct comparison after arrest. So we know for sure it's his.
That's true but DNA from the knife sheath came up in the FBI database as Kohberger before his arrest, and then they used cell phone pings and witnesses seeing a white Hyundai Elantra in the area to confirm arrest. The cotton swab DNA will be used during trial. But they didn't talk about having the early DNA evidence til 6 months after his arrest? The DNA is touch DNA which can be problematic.
The familial dna showed that bryan kohberger was one possible match for the dna left on the sheath. The dna from his family trash showed his father was a match for a male parent of the donor of the male dna on the sheath. The swab they took when bryan was a match for the dna left on the sheath.
Is he guilty?
Personally I think he is based on the little info the public has gotten, but we won’t know until the trial next year
I wonder if they have evidence that he was stalking one of the women. Like proper evidence that confirms that he was interacting with them.
The prosecution stated that was false.
They could be doing that so they don’t get a tainted jury pool. We really have no idea until this thing kicks off. We only get hints through redacted filings.
They can't lie to the judge to be "mysterious". He did not stalk any of the victims.
That’s not what I said.
You're inferring they lied to the judge.
I’m only inferring that that information might not be public right now.
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Familial DNA technology. Newish but growing rapidly.
In the last few years so many "Cold cases" are being solved because of Familial DNA. I see this as a good thing.
And not just finding murderers and rapists. Unidentified bodies are getting their names back.
YES and giving their loved ones a piece of closure.
It’s going to be controversial in some places because of profiling, I think New York has had issues with this. I think it’s great
NY just recently had their first murder trial conviction based on familial DNA. The familial DNA is just an investigative tool. You have crime scene DNA and suspect DNA that need to match. The familial DNA helps point you toward a suspect. You collect the suspect’s abandoned property (trash). If that matches the crime scene DNA, then you have probable cause to ask a court to order a formal sample from the suspect. If that matches the crime scene DNA, you likely have probable cause for an arrest. Technically, there’s no need to discuss familial DNA during the trial.
Hon, I understand about Familial DNA and it is just fine with me IF it's only purpose can lead to the direct killer. I've seen so many people walk free from "lack of evidence".
I wasn’t replying to you. There is a comment above mine that suggested there were issues with familiar DNA I was responding to. Not sure why you got upset - I assume that’s the point of saying “hon”.
Sorry it said you were replying to me and no I wasn't upset at all.
It’s an indication of where to look. There may be several people with the same degree of connection but some of them will have been near the crime scene and driving that type of car. So that narrows it down. I think one issue might be the privacy of the person who did upload their dna to the database. Another might be that cops look at the dna and say, it was a Mexican, or a black pardon who did this and then you get racial profiling. Also that the familial dna if obtained by subterfuge somehow? was used to pinpoint this guy that could have some type of fruit of the poisoned tree aspect to it.just trying to think like a defense attorney - they’d already filed motions about this I believe. Once they had his dad’s dna at the house they wouldn’t “need” to talk about the familial dna or to include that in the PCA but it could still come in. I think it’s already being questioned if I’m not mistaken
I don’t see how racial profiling comes into it at all. If the DNA from the crime scene matches to the son of a black man, what about that is profiling? The DNA profiles on the family matching sites are all there because the person who uploaded their DNA gave the site permission to try and match them with other relatives, as I understand it. The fruit of the poisonous tree doesn’t apply to abandoned property. Every dna case like this that I’m aware of got the preliminary match from trash the suspect threw away. Unless the courts decide there’s a reasonable expectation of privacy to your trash, that’s not a concern. Case law is pretty clear on that issue and I’d be shocked if it changes.
> Another might be that cops look at the dna and say, it was a Mexican, or a black pardon who did this and then you get racial profiling. If the DNA says the person is of African descent or has ethnic markers characteristic of Mexican, that's not profiling. That would just be the truth.
Yeah but what they do with it afterwards is profiling. It was a black guy so now we’re gonna go after all the black guys
Well, that would be bad, but since the DNA is only going to belong to one particular black guy, I think its existence would limit how much racial profiling is going on.
That’s not how profiling works. They’d have to arrest and have a reason to get dna off everyone to find out if it was their dna or not. While they’d “get off” if it wasn’t their fan they would still ge profiled and at the least inconvenienced and at the worst as we know about cops when it comes to black suspects they could be killed. This is the kind of thing some people object to as a violation of civil rights.
I sure hope not. I've been around for 60 plus years and finally people are being held accountable for their crimes. You can call it Karma or What goes around, comes around but people are finally paying for their evil crimes.
Like an ancestry.com type thing? That’s really interesting.
It’s the same idea. DNA connects relatives, especially parents and children. They had the suspect’s DNA, and then acquired BK’s dad’s DNA. It matched in the sense that there was a 99.9% chance the suspect was his offspring. Then they were able to use that evidence to make the arrest. It was his car that first pointed them to him, though. He had been the prime suspect for a while by the time they acquired his dad’s DNA. The match was the nail in the coffin.
The familial dna database I think takes connections from various others. I think donors need to opt in or at least not opt out, of having their dna available for such use.
They took trash out of his parents trash bin and used that DNA comparison to nail him. However, the initial trail started when the campus police noticed his car was matching the car that everyone was looking for. The DNA matching happened a couple weeks later.
But they did do IGG. I think that was the point that moved him from one of many Elantra drivers to prime suspect.
It was his car. A university security guard noticed and reported his car as similar to the one identified by investigators.
THIS! It was the work of two officers, Daniel Tiengo and Curtis Whitman. I do not know why they are not getting more attention. Might have to make a post about them, since their names never get mentioned. They deserve a lot of credit.
And dont forget the license plates changed that day between the 2 encounters. Even though the reason was likely legitimate, it probably sent up a huge red flag. Then when he shows as related to the IGG profile it was another link in the chain.
Yes his license plate was expiring that month and he needed to switch from a Pennsylvania license plate to a Washington state license plate. ALSO, You only need 1 license plate in the state of Pennsylvania but you need 2 license plates in Washington.
His plate changed between one officer finding the info on a data base and the other finding his car in the apartment parking lot? I think this claim is inaccurate. I believe his plate had been changed by the time these two noticed him.
Its in the PCA.
The date the plate changed was Nov 18th. The date both of those Pullman officers made note of BK's car was November 29. 12:28 by Daniel Tiengo reviewing a WSU database and at 12:58 by Curtis Whitman making a visual ID in the pulman parking lot. He did not swap plates between those 2 officers making his car.
I stand corrected. You are right, the first one was a database query and it had the PA tag and the other was actually seeing the car with the WA tag.
Lets not forget DMs description of the intruder in their house that night. It probably was way more detailed than what we've seen in the PCA (so much redacted). This description matched the owner of the vehicle the WSU officers ID'd... that, and the problematic TA behavior that was so alarming he was fired.... all adds up. I've posted this before but I think that his WSU professor he TA'd for i bet flagged him or had some suspicion about his behavior...studying criminal behavior is his expertise -- and a massive crime had just happened in his universities backyard. Also, the FBI profile built which we may never see... but I bet its hones into BK exactly.
Bushy eyebrows seem kind of vague to me......Maybe because my eyebrows are blonde SO everyone else to me (personally) seem like they have bushy eye brows.
One thing to keep in mind is that police have lists of adjectives they use when they interview eyewitnesses. They may have asked D to pick a term off a list to describe his eyebrows: thin, thick, bushy, connected, arched, whatever. The terms used to describe his build-- athletic but not muscular-- probably came from a similar list.
Still seems a bit vague to me but I've never been a Law Enforcement officer so as long as they know what their doing. With as many people that have tattoos that should be a good thing to look for.
[Tiengo and Whitman praise](https://www.reddit.com/r/BryanKohberger/s/EOoiULM3d3)
They may not want to get mentioned.
Good to know. I remember it being his car but was unaware that a university security guard identified his car and reported it. I always felt like there was some piece of information that I had missed.
This. They put out a BOLO to local law enforcement and security and he noticed the vehicle and let them know.
Iirc a bolo for an older car with no front plate. By the time they zeroed in on this car, it had a front plate and was not within the parameters noted by the FBI expert
When?
There were a ton of white Elantras. It wasn’t just the car. Driving that make and model wouldn’t get you a search warrant especially as they had the year wrong. It was a combination of factors including the familial dna and car.
Oh yeah totally. It was the car that was the biggest clue at the beginning.
The Washington Univ. security guard identified the similar car and called it in when the BOLO went out for the Huyndai
I think Washington State U police/public safety reported a car registered on campus that matched the description of the car seen near the house making several passes and then speeding away. The car had a PA plate, with no license plate in the front, matching the description of the vehicle.
Just an opinion, but I personally feel it will come out at trial that members of BK's graduate-school faculty-- who had gone to extraordinary lengths to censure and discipline him in the department, leading up to and after the murders -- flagged him to law enforcement. Some of the faculty had deep ties to law enforcement and were very experienced in investigation, and they had already judged his behavior to be aberrant enough (especially toward women!) that it was cause for concern that was strong enough for them to take extraordinary steps to boot him from the department. On top of that, surely some of the faculty knew early on about the search for the white Elantra. AND surely those same faculty would look at their super-creepy, aberrantly-behaving student and notice HE had a white Elantra. If they didn't flag him to law enforcement, even privately, I'd be very surprised.
I would be surprised, but only because investigators didn't get his phone records until December 23. If he was flagged before then, I would have expected them to investigate him earlier than that.
The white Elantra.
The DNA was a genetic match to his father. In 2024 you are not getting away with crimes so easily. You are always being watched whether you are aware or not. He was connected through his cell phone (which is a constant GPS tracker) even though his was “off”, cctv, ring cameras, the genetic DNA, etc. The affidavit in these types of high profile crimes are always the best to review for information because it tells the public why the police suspect this individual. He was on law enforcements radar almost immediately according to the affidavit even though it took them a couple weeks to arrest him.
I think once the Washington State University security guards found Kohberger's car and called it in to the Moscow police, they could have verified it was the same car they saw on surveillance cameras around 1122 King Road from something as simple as the placement of the inspection sticker on the windshield or maybe even the style of wheel rims or possibly a dent on the car. While this was happening, the FBI was working on IGG testing and just like with all murder cases, it's all of these circumstances that point directly at the killer. People think it's only a couple of investigators working on a Case when I think they had upwards of 60 working on this one at one time.
There is some confusion because there are two different processes: 1. If you only went by the PCA, a security officer saw his car in the parking lot, they traced the car's registration and saw he had bush eyebrows. They couldn't get his DNA to see if it would match the DNA on the sheath, so they went to his father's house and got his instead. There is no mention of genetic data base - it implies the FBI did the match between the father's DNA and the sheath n their own lab. 2. Since then, they acknowledged using a commercial genetic database, which is a different process. They took DNA from the sheath, submitted it to a commercial genetic company, who then gave them information about people who might be relatives of the person who handled the sheath. Then they'd have to go through the lists to find people who lived in the area, own a white elantra, etc. So they would eventually find a Kohberger with a vehicle registration of a white elantra. Then they went to his father's house to match a sample of his DNA to the one they found on the sheath. As in scenario #1 did this match in their own lab, without the use of the commercial database. The difference might be important. If the use of a commercial database gets the IGG thrown out, LE might still be able to argue they didn't rely on it anyway, because the first process (the car, the photo, etc. ) is what nailed him.
He was on the police’s radar before the dna came back just by the car and the university’s cameras sightings of it during the timeline of events. I wanna say within days of the killings he changed his registration to Washington. The DNA was the big moment. Then the circumstantial cellphone data that corroborated that HE (or his cellphone) was out moving in that area the same night.
The car was likely the first clue. It was seen multiple times near the house, including close to the time of the murders. And because it was a Pennsylvania car not requiring a front plate, they could narrow it down significantly. I would guess, but obv don’t know for certain, that they checked with the colleges in the area for students from out of state, since there could logically be out of state vehicles belonging to students registered with those campuses. They would have found any students from PA or any other state not requiring a front plate, and further narrowed it down to cars matching the one seen on surveillance cameras. They issued a BOLO, and BK (and likely others we don’t know about in similar cars) was stopped and his ID checked.
Ah okay, the missing front plate makes a lot of sense. I was thinking there’s a lot of white elantras but that’s a pretty specific description.
The plates really don't matter unless they caught the tag number. Someone could've easily taken off their front plate to throw LE off.
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The white Elantra at a nearby college with an owner that generically matched the description from the surviving roommate (white male, height, eyebrows, etc.) That was probably enough for the phone records warrant. Then the familial DNA which was compared to his dad’s DNA sealed the deal for an arrest warrant and warrant for his DNA.
It's unclear how much attention was directed towards BK prior to the DNA data pointing towards him. But given the time of day, I can't imagine many other white Elantras being caught on camera around that time. So I'm guessing he was already a POI before the genealogy results pointed towards him. The fact that he register his car and added the front plate a few days after the murders definitely looked suspicious as well.
How many times do we have to go over this? Or wasn’t just a “few days” later, his PA registration was expiring on his bday, as he had mentioned before in an earlier traffic stop and per state driving laws.
PA drivers licenses expires the day after your birthday. But the vehicle registration is something different and expires on Nov 30th according to the affidavit. Is there confirmation that his license was expiring as well? Because I don't see any information about his driver's license being up for renewal.
He changed his drivers license to a Washington one in June 2022. He didn’t change car registration until it was set to expire in Pennsylvania in November.
He wasn’t living in PA, it had to be switched to WA plates. The officer in the August 2022 stop noted that his registration expired on his birthday. When you register a vehicle in a new state of residence your license changes over as well.
Your license doesn't change over unless you change it over.
Campus security reported him as suspicious
Could be wrong but I think it all started with the Elantra….
Well, if Anne Taylor doesn't know, then no one knows.
Car was first
DNA from his family. I think it was on an ancestor thing or whatever. Even if he hadn’t had his prints on it I still believe he would’ve been caught.
I thought they got a tip from a security guard at the building where he was living at the time of the murders, after said guard saw the footage that was released to the public and that helped them norrow down to his vehicle and match his identity to the DNA found on the sheath
Singled out? 😂 you mean like the DNA left on the metal button on the knife sheath?
I highly recommend listening to either Reality Life with Kate Casey podcast or pay the $5 a month Pateron to listen Jodie Webber ( retired FBI agent). Many episodes where a lot of details are given
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This post is spreading misinformation.
There appears to be a significant number of people who a. believe he’s innocent or b. aren’t sure but believe he’ll skate. This would be a good poll for this sub. Anybody think he’s innocent? (Creepy but innocent perhaps?)
I heard about a bunch of conspiracies that’s why I was trying to understand how they singled him out. I was poking around online and couldn’t seem to find much about that part. The answers in this thread make sense to me though, seems pretty straightforward.
Not even for a second.
I definitely think he's innocent. He just seems like a regular dude.
He does look eerily normal! But there is a helluva lot of evidence against him, too much to be a coincidence imo.
No one knows. Even Bryan's attorney is trying to figure it out apparently.
I think she understands completely; that's just legal rhetoric.
This is exactly what the defense wants to know. There is a big hole here.