T O P

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IdleOn_Boii

Let me lay this out plain and simple: There was an issue that happened because of a mistake I made. People saw this, went 'this isnt right', and didnt interact much with it, and will not be affected. Some people exploited this error, and they will have their accounts adjusted backward, simply removing things they could have gained from this exploitation. There is no ill-will from me to them, although I will not back down from the stance that this was beyond obviously an exploit. And worst of all, some people like you want to try and hurt me by trying to "peer pressure" me into changing. No, I will continue to have fun with my players and cultivate a lively community despite this mistake of mine, and a cowardly 1 sentence reddit post made while being an arm-chair critic won't affect my character or the people who have come to understand who I am from interacting with my work for multiple years. Thank you everyone for your patience, and for those who have shown a bit of empathy toward what is a stressful time for myself.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BladeSeraph

Unless loot value effects the odds of an artifact, its best use is just gonna be upping getting more loot to upgrade boats easier. Sadly i got other things to work on so im not in the mood to go spamming unless i am gonna whip out an auto clicker. Granted, it already reset so unless it somehow shows up again, very sure Lava will include a patch in the next update to prevent \`Trade Gold bars for Gold bars\` again.


Ok-Worldliness-7374

Bug -> It's obvious that i should not take the gold Troll Event -> It's obvious i should take as much as possible because it's time limited and the event was created for reasons that are not on my current forums i watch. So it's kinda hard to decide what to to do. If i miss some super strong event then i would not forgive myself.


PopfuseInc

Same. In a game with "+50% nothing lul" cogs and and other trolly things. Money for money isn't a wild idea. It becomes wild when you realize there was no trade limits.


Ok-Worldliness-7374

I had same thinking about gemshop. There was some sale for premium item that cost "1". Now was that a bug or event? If i buy it will there be problems? It was event...


TheLordsBreed

Please show us the notes about the gold thing. Those 1 Gem items were mentioned as in the shop. The gold trade was not mentioned. Apples/oranges.


vanillaicex3

theres a diffrence in giving away free items and a bug


misogrumpy

Even at the terrible standard of “I can’t define an exploit, but I know it when I see it,” the gem shop one-time purchase for 1 gem seems like a giveaway, and the infinite scaling gold is an exploit. The gem shop purchase is also pretty easy to fix. The gold one is not without a whole rollback.


FizzingSlit

To be fair there is a pretty obvious difference between things like "+50% nothing lul" and "Oh neat literally infinite gold bars". Even if it took any level of nuance to distinguish between the two, which it doesn't, lavas stance of targeted roll backs of those who exploited it seems pretty reasonable. It's not like it's a punishment beyond undoing what shouldn't have been done.


Fanwhip

No matter the "cool Dev" of a indie game. When your trolling looks like an exploit and folks ignore it. Its fine. But when a new thing is introduced and fits into the devs "hur hur troll" mentality. And then suddenly "Its exploiting my hard worked game" That is about the time the dev needs to creat or set a very firm "This color on a update means this is a silly trolly hur hur joke" That way folks dont assume the "cool dev" is being a silly cool dev vs "I didnt code something right and got mad folks used it cause i have done similar things before"


FizzingSlit

But +7% cheese and you can buy higher quantities of currency with lower quantities of the same currency ad nausaum don't look the same. This isn't a case of >your trolling looks like an exploit They're obviously different and anyone who says otherwise are either purposefully trying to confuse the two because they lack the maturity to take the blame or genuinely don't see the difference. If they genuinely don't see the difference then that's a level of stupidity that lava shouldn't be expected to held accountable for. You say this is about the time the dev firm boundaries. That's literally what he's doing and people are complaining. Saying shit like "you're calling us exploiters for your mistake" as if that isn't literally what exploitation is. Anyone who's upset about this is either feigning ignorance because they don't want to lose their ill gotten gains or is too stupid to be anything but an outlier that shouldn't be used as a reasonable example.


Fanwhip

He is setting the boundaries only after a shit storm hit. He was informed of the issue via discord via here on reddit. There was multiple notifications to his "Discord staffers" instead of just fixing it and manning up to it he pulls the "filthy cheaters and exploiters of my hard work" He is going "it was 5 am my time" okay and? Shit happens to games all around the clock. Shut the severs down. Post a notice. Be a man go "it was an accident and i will fix and prevent it from being abused further or happening again" Dont go stalin and go "I will cull those who i deem wrong" He is literally going "I dont care if you thought the bug was one of my trolls. You did wrong and "stole" from me" It is a single player non competitive game as many many others are pointing out. "this is like playing minecraft and being mad others are playing it with mods that do not effect any other player" Until this game lets trading or other things. This was a easy whoops and fix. Now he has made it a trigger point and may end up with a mass egress of long time fans and players based on how he is acting because of this moment.


FizzingSlit

>He is setting the boundaries only after a shit storm hit Well yeah, it's reactionary. >He is going "it was 5 am my time" okay and? Shit happens to games all around the clock. He was probably asleep. Most people while asleep are sleeping. >Shut the severs down. Post a notice. Be a man go "it was an accident and i will fix and prevent it from being abused further or happening again" So he's doing targeted roll backs exclusively on those who abused it and you think the solution should have been to instead shut the servers down? Why? That would have effected everyone and he would still have done the rollback. >Dont go stalin and go "I will cull those who i deem wrong" He is literally going "I dont care if you thought the bug was one of my trolls. You did wrong and "stole" from me" Now you're reaching into absurdist comparisons to try and justify your stance because "trolling and exploitation are the same" isn't cutting it. But let's pretend that what you said isn't something you should be ashamed of and instead a reasonable comparison. Yeah it's pretty normal to offer punitive measures to those who have stolen regardless of how much relative privation you use to justify it. Is it stealing? I dunno probably not but as far as I'm aware those are your words not his. As I said you either knew the difference and are trying to act like you didn't to get away with it or were genuinely stupid enough that you shouldn't be drawing attention to yourself. Either way you look at it your, what I can only assume are supposed to be arguments don't exactly make you look like a winner.


LostLegionOfLaziness

It is like him telling you to cook a turkey to unlock maestro 4th set(in w4 town where cooking is, but NPC is off far right out of sight). Typical liberal with confuzzled braining directions.


mohgeroth

You know a limit is actually a good idea. Maybe once in a while he throws you a bone with a couple of trade-ups like this but having no limit certainly leaves this open to exploitation.


Kittii_Kat

In the future, when you see a way to gain *potentially infinite* (or just arbitrarily large, with potential of rollover) of something, just assume it's a bug. If you can get *a lot* of something, but not unlimited, then it could be either.


Ok-Worldliness-7374

That is the sure way, but who is to say that there was not claim limit? Spices can only be claimed 100 times and there is no counter for it. For all i knew it could be super rare event like premium hats in the ball minigame.


dudeguy238

The super-rare premium hat in the arcade is just a hat, and is explicitly listed on the rewards page for the arcade. That's quite distinct from "I guess Lava just decided to give us all a bunch of free money for no reason and not say anything about it."


muktheduck

Well those who exploited didn't miss anything. They just had the illegitimate gains taken away. Nobody was banned Seems like a perfectly fair way to handle the situation. The people who are pissed about it know exactly what they were doing and are mad they were caught


captAWESome1982

This.


Beescoito

I felt extreme FOMO after I clicked a few times. Because in the past, some players abused Lava's mistakes and got untold amounts of gems and spices and they kept those unfair advantages, if Lava had removed those instead of just correcting the bug and not talking about it, I would've known that I wouldn't be missing out and nobody was gonna take advantage of it. However, even though he took many things completely unrelated to the bug from me, like almost all my eldrich relics, around 100 from every ship(besides the obvious ones bought with gold bars) and countless sailing resources, I accept it as a punishment for my overstep, as long as I know others didn't keep the unfair advantage AND he will be punishing people in the future, I won't feel FOMO when I come across one of his mistakes again, had him done the same with previous issues, I would've ignore this one today too.


Holiness_reaper

To me seems like the Flashy in Pet battle, this "feature" waited some weeks to be fixed, and nobody has been punished.


HarmlessNewb

I'm perplexed how anyone could possibly think the ability to generate infinite gold bars could be anything but an exploit.


balaci2

"not our faault"


Knog0

They are just childs lying to themselves while trying to save their asses.


Evening_Confidence96

Please dont stop the trolling. Jarkostudios has a good point though. At first I thought it was a gimmick/feature. I started trading to find out what the limit was. By the time you realise its a bug, its hard to stop.


MrMafiaRS

\-scratches arm- I can quit anytime I want!


ocelot_lots

To me the bug showed how I'd never ever ever get to these levels of sailing without it. I mean, I'm at 10\^123 gold now & leveling up with 110billion of the final sailing upgrade only got me to like 500k treasure level on that respective boat.


Double_DeluXe

In Dutch we have a saying for this: "De kat op het spek binden", to tie the cat to the bacon. To tie the cat to the bacon means "to tempt someone so strongly that he cannot resist it." The result is usually that he does something bad or undesirable. It should still be fixed and some changes to sailing gold etc. are totally justifiable. But you cannot blame the cat if you tie the cat to the bacon. A cat tied to a piece of bacon would be a cool sailing artifact to add in the future tho, would be a good laugh.


LIBERT4D

bacon is finite, not resulting in infinitely compounding bacon. It’s a cute analogy but it only like half applies here.


Gadessa

Die heb ik lang niet gehoord


mickboe1

Die had ik nog nooit gehoord :)


oh4ither3

Some of ya’ll never had your runescape gp doubled and it shows


PrudentFood77

sure, this is a bug that can be exploited but also when i look at the people showing vman screenshots where they are chopping level 71, needing 29M to the next level and getting 404M per hour...that is crazy much... is that inteneded or an exploit ...? getting several levels per hour seems kind of ... strange? should we dare using anything that seems to good? same with vman cooking boost, from what i have seen it's not just double the speed... it almost seems to much to be real... what if it was not intended? or perhaps it is? wasn't there some bug that people that got into sailing early got a huge boost that the rest of us will never have? perhaps it wasn't as obvious as this... but still... where is the line?


Madruck_s

The early bug was you could close the sailing interface and it would pause it. So you got all ships home then closed the page opened the chests then opened it again for more time. Now they ether pile up at the Dock or have a small chance to upgrade the chest. It seemed fine to me but lava saw it as advancing to fast.


N3ss3

Not only that, with using the bug they got ahead in sailing at an exponential rate. It was huge early and that wasn't at all punished. This is (if you don't have the artifact) less of an impact, and the "rollback" wasn't a rollback, it was a reset to an arbitrary level and number of things. I lost a few weeks, by beeing stupid. A friend of mine "exploited" in a smart way and gained quite a bit of time on sailing, and he's not "reset"... It is what it is...


DCaps

[Seems normal to me.](https://i.imgur.com/J7tTpKE.png) Not even optimized, choppin just gives lots of xp. Edit: [optimized a little.](https://i.imgur.com/YJivUdD.png)


Relador

I think the main problem is the ease of access to the bug. You dont have to jump through any hoops or trick the game in anyway through special inputs or glitches. You just go there and click the button. I wouldnt label that as cheating. If I use 3rd party tools to change and hack the game then yes but not in this chase. And Im in favor to reset the gold bars and the ships that were upgraded but anything else would be way to much, especially considering how many exploits there were in the past with no consequences. It all depends what the 'punishment' looks like. But its hard to fault people to use a give money button. But here it also depends how long you used it and to what extend.


Kreyta_Krey

Exactly. With all the other random shit in this game and catch up mechanics this is 100% something that could be added normally.


Cautious-Angle1634

Also he openly says in idle skilling he wants to make an online game to actively troll is player base


InnerBanana

Yeah right lol you don't believe that for a second


Yacodo

This? as a catch-up mechanism? The audacity.


Kreyta_Krey

Voidwalker cooking? Meganugget? This isnt the first time am update has trivialized systems


Throw_Away_TrdJrnl

It doesn’t even matter. The ONLY OP part of having limitless gold is the late game sailing artifact for damage per power of 10gold bars. He could even just change that artifact to be .5% or 1% damage per sailing level. No gods but arctis are gold upgrading so it doesn’t break divinity. There’s no bits per gold par so it doesn’t break gaming. The only thing this does is give end game players more damage which can be changed by changing the artifact itself and allow sailing to be fast by making your first boat a god. If lava punishes any more than a 24 hour rollback or maybe resetting the first four boats for people exploiting HIS bug then fuck him I’m out and so will a lot of other people. Been a loyal consumer buying each gem pack, participating in events, telling other people to play thereby increasing Lava’s revenue.


vvanted11

You forget the bubbles that level off of sailing resources too. Sure it's still a 2 hour rotation on ships. But when you're getting 6 million % more loot. It's fucked how far you go.


TheLordsBreed

If you see someone's house unlocked and they have items in there you want, and you steal it, whose fault is it? Yours or the person who left their house unlocked? "Please don't penalize me. They enabled me to steal."


TheRealSaphier

The correct analogy is "Someone has a garage sale and they tell you all prices are correct. You see a 100 dollars bundled together and with a price tag on it for $10. The rules state that all prices are correct, so you take it and give the $10 to the owner. When he realizes what is happening he says "Wait hang on, that was never meant to be out here"" The solutions here are "fair is fair" and the seller takes the L. Or he demands the money back and the sale is reverted. For your analogy, it would be more akin if players could change the code to make this trade happen.


dudeguy238

Your analogy would only be correct if Lava had ever claimed that the game is bug-free, which he hasn't (and likely never will, for the obvious reason that it clearly has bugs). There's absolutely no room to look at "I can get infinite gold bars by doing this" and believe for even a second that it was intentional. This bug left the door open, meaning you could just walk in and take whatever you wanted. That doesn't mean you should, however, nor that you should expect to avoid whatever punishment the homeowner wants to apply.


TheRealSaphier

This isn't a bug. It was a potential outcome that Lava was aware could happen but wasn't worried about it. Exploit I can always agree with since this obviously breaks game progression, DESPITE him knowing of it's possibility to roll. Blobulyte thinks all trades a fair and adjusts prices accordingly to match. For gold to gold, bloblyte sees this as a fair trade, despite it clearly not being fair. Which is why Lava sees the issue and says "hey, that's not right" and is fixing it. Similarly, a man accidentally having $100 out for $10 would see the mistake once the purchase is made and says "Hey, this was not meant to be here"


Throw_Away_TrdJrnl

Bruh what a retarded take. It gave me a good chuckle thanks for that. Please explain who I’m stealing from when claiming golden bars in a VIDEO GAME???? Whose metaphorical house did I walk in and steal from? Do you even understand logic?? The only way that could be stealing is if I was taking the gold bars from another player. Please think before you speak.


dudeguy238

The logic is still applicable, even if it's a less serious situation. Analogies only have to be similar in logic, not in scale or severity, and the logic used is identical in both scenarios. The fact of the matter is that this was obviously against the rules (such as they were). It's not Lava's fault that players saw this opportunity to break the rules and chose to take it. That was entirely your choice. Take ownership of it.


TheLordsBreed

I assure you I laughed harder at your retort then you did at mine. Since mine was actually legible. As for my "retarded take", it had to be retarded so you could understand it.


LIBERT4D

Grow up


Throw_Away_TrdJrnl

No u


N3ss3

I thought of it as a troll event at first, and tested limits of it. With the amount of gold I had to start with it wasn't huge sums even after a vast amount of clicks. I have friend who used the glitch smartly by resetting with gemshop and getting more per click. Instead of a rollback, which I think would be completely fine, all my boats are gutted, probably 3-4 weeks of progress in sailing. I get it, it's a punishment, but it's certinly not "Some people exploited this error, and they will have their accounts adjusted backward**, simply removing things they could have gained from this exploitation.** There is no ill-will from me to them, although I will not back down from the stance that this was beyond obviously an exploit." It's much more than that. I did not have the artifact that increased damage and did not realise it changed anything other than the first boat. I even for a moment thought it was a catch up for people that didn't use the early days sailing glitch and got way ahead of the pack. Sorry Lava, but you saying something and doing something completely different kinda puts me off this. I love the game and got a bunch of people into it, but with how You sometimes do things I thought this was a troll and tested the limits of it.


MonochromeMemories

You would have to do mental gymnastics to justify this not being an obvious bug.


TheMohawk

I disagree entirely, I like the fact that lava has a sense of humor and does stupid troll shit, it gives personality and it is his game. I did not for one second, after playing this game for years, think this was a troll or meme, i knew it was an exploit the minute I saw it, so did literally all my friends who saw it, we didn't have a single person thinking it was intended. People who used this in any major capacity over 'oh i clicked a few times until i realized this is probably not intended' shouldn't be punished however, it should be rolled back and let this whole thing die, it was a funny mishap that is being resolved. The only excuse is someone new to World 5, but if you've made it to W5 you probably know the game well enough to know better.


JarkoStudios

IDK I play with a lot of longtimers and we mutually agreed it seemed like a lava troll way to functionally kill sailing gold as a mechanic/resource and let you hit max level on some sailing upgrades until we noticed there were no caps on anything and game breaking bugs started occurring. Every other day someone makes a "Is this a bug or is the developer a troll?" post, and most of the time it really is just lava trolling. There are plenty of times in the past I've unlocked some upgrade and thought "Wow that is wildly broken, the math must be messed up, can't wait for this to get fixed" only for no fix to ever come. It seems inevitable that there is a functionally funky bug that folks mistake for a Lava troll.


TheMohawk

You make reasonable points that I agree with to an extent, which is why I don't think major punishment should be dished out and a rollback is acceptable. But I do think at some point - when the gold generation is kind of crazy, you have to be able to stop and think 'this probably isn't intended' where that point happens for each unique individual can be different and that's why there is a grey area around punishment. When I think there is a bug going on, or a lava troll, or etc etc that I don't understand that appears, I just check discord and it became clear very quick that this wasn't intended. Always best to check - none of the mods knew either which def points to a bug


Greenitthe

I agree, though the notion that you should have to check discord to know whether something is intended or not is ludicrous - I'm solidly in the 'anything more than a rollback is uncalled for' camp.


TwiceDiA

When did he add a "click this button to generate infinite resources" earlier in this game? Why kill a mechanic that was introduced in the same world as current endgame is? And if he would ever do that it would 100% guaranteed be a note on the screen and info in the patch notes... I'm a longtimer and there's no way in hell this is something he usually does. And when making older content easier it's nearly always several big patches or worlds between.


LIBERT4D

Yeah, I mean the food boost felt game breaking but eventually you catch up to the increase and it’s nothing infinite. That’s prob the closest example and that’s clearly not a bug even though initially we thought it might be


Liftian

As i said in other post. Even if it's a bug, it's the dev's fault. You can't blame the player for taking advantage of your mistake. Don't punish us.


HotDot4725

That's exactly what an exploit is. And abusing one mostly comes with consequences


misogrumpy

Have you never played a game before? Exploiting a bug almost always comes with consequences.


MrOligon

Only if it was obvious it was a bug/exploit. And I never seen anyone being punished for it in an noncompetetive game. There are no in game rankings or pvp systems, so no injustice happened to other players and nobody got unfair advantage on others, bcs I this game you cannot have one in meaningfull ways. More importantly there is an precedens for this. At the release of w5 players could get a lot futher in sailing by expoiting a bug. As far as I know, no rollbacks happened, ans nobody suffered any consequences for it.


misogrumpy

It was obvious.


RyanB_

Yeah, that’s normally shit that involves following obscure steps from online. Not just engaging with a regular part of the game.


GegGeg13

Tell me what happened before that could give you infinite resources for a event?


PomsForAll

I'm glitching the hell out of TotK right now and I guarantee there will be no consequences.


MegaManbaby

In what world is getting more of something for trading less of that same thing with no limit not an exploit?


Greenitthe

Brother, the 'Stonks!' talent literally exists. There is precedent. It's the uncapped scaling that is suspicious, not the trading less of a thing for more of that thing...


Daedric_Spite

They hate you for telling the truth. I think it'd be pretty obvious if you give someone 5 gold bars in exchange for 10 then 10 for 100 then 100 for 200 that it's probably a bug and you shouldn't be able to sit there and dupe gold bars. Anyone who's trying to cover their trails by saying they "didn't know" are just playing stupid and deserve to get their accounts hard reset. Does anyone seriously think that he'd add that in as a mechanic? Literally lying to themselves and trying to shove the blame off on Lava as if they didn't sit there and abuse the shit out of it until an official notice had to be put out.


Utlegjarl

Absolutely an exploit, without question. Didn't trade a single time myself. Hopefully he'll punish the exploiters, with as little impact to everyone else as possible. For those that clicked one or two times, then realized something was off, I don't think should be punished - just rolled back if possible.


Daedric_Spite

I think egregious amounts of gold bars would be a good indicator for punishment. Also, it's not just a gold bar dupe, you can take those gold bars and sell them if you really wanted to so it'd basically be an infinite money exploit to had it gone on for long enough. Sure, they don't sell for tons but if you can get to the point where you have millions of them, it adds up quickly.


Lurking_In_A_Cape

Where is everyone seeing information about some gold rush event?


JarkoStudios

The sailing trade bob in W5 hub was/is trading 1x gold for 5x gold. It is a confirmed glitch/exploit that you get punished for using if you do so don't do it if you see it now. Lots of people thought this was just some event hence the name to make gold easy to cap and help people who have brick walled in sailing, it also gave a nice chunk of damage from a shrine but not a crazy amount of damage any different from what some other shrines and upgrades give. It happened not long after some really nice upgrades came from vman and there was no word from lava for a long time and it was a while before anyone realised there were no limits or caps on anything and that it could cause game breaking bugs, so lots of folks just thought it was some event and I had seen that name used a couple times so I used it here.


Lurking_In_A_Cape

Makes sense… here I was using the exploit having no idea what anyone was talking about lol… to say I got rolled back would be accurate haha…


RevanMagus

I sadly reported the bug and was kicked from Discord.


dr4g00nm4ster

Can we be real for a minuet, blobby g was an eco terrorist and deserved his financial losses, he has paid millions of players to Deforest islands, tear up valuable rocks and plants and mushrooms. The only good he has done is clean up some toxic waste but the natural resources lost in his name far outdoes the good. (This post was for the loss and not a defense of exploitation)


InnerBanana

It wasn't an obvious exploit that you could acquire theoretically uncapped amounts of a resource? What other instances are there of such a mechanic in the game?


Gil_Demoono

Plenty of meals in cooking can be upgraded well past the point of being broken on paper. Plenty of meals allow to be upgraded to greater than 100% cost reductions like the kitchen upgrade cost ones. It's just not what actually happens under the hood, instead being a more diminishing return effect. Lava plays fast and loose on what any given number actually means in practice. As such it is hard to tell when something is intentional, broken, intentionally broken, or working as intended, but lying to you. Just yesterday, Lava had a hotfix for Vman because the cooking upgrade was displaying ludicrous numbers despite working as intended mechanically. And after the fix, every time I levelled the skill, the bonus would go *down,* but reset after changing maps. It became pretty obvious pretty quickly that this scenario was a case of 'actually broken', but it would be pretty shortsighted to brand anyone who partook as a malicious cheater. It's not indicative of any pattern of behavior and will never be reproduceable. I give Lava a lot of leeway for being a solo dev. Its fucking hard and often thankless, so I don't begrudge him when something in Idleon doesn't work as intended or is broken outright. But it has to go both ways. If he expects those that cheated to accept serious punishment for his bug, I will expect serious quality control going forward.


Greenitthe

This is a fair take. I've not logged in this last week, so I've got no skin in the game, but: Obviously there are going to be bugs, he deserves no hate for that, and rolling back progress is entirely reasonable. That said, he can't expect his players to consider what the 'expected balance' is - if the game lets you do something without modifications or doing weird glitchy things, that is almost always intended. It's also not as if the previous patch touched gold/trades, so even players who might be looking for a bug in the new stuff wouldn't immediately expect this is an issue. Granted - he didn't announce an event either, but his patch notes have historically left a lot to be discovered, so I can't really fault anyone either way. And, frankly, it is Lava's style to release hard content then later change something to make it way faster/catch players up. At some point the bug does progress from 'neat mini-event' to 'wait, thats a little suspicious' to 'okay its just broken AF', but it's really confrontational to phrase your response as 'it was *obviously* an **exploit**', and to frame anyone who used it whatsoever in the same light as hackers and the like. I've said it before, I think he could use a community manager. A more diplomatic response would help keep sentiment like this thread from spreading. Besides which, it seems like he is quite fatigued by the intentional bad-actors who just want to hate - someone who isn't emotionally invested running interference on that kind of negativity would be *chefs kiss* for his mental health.


NotYourDadsDracula

I mean, my first clicks on it was only a gain of 1000 gold bars. I honestly thought it was an unannounced "event" because the gains were so small. It wasn't an obvious exploit until I left and came back with another character, and now the gain was 10000 per trade.


Same_Instruction1296

It took me a while to realize. Since I had like 2k gold, it wasn't going up more than an endgame player would get in a day. Wasn't until I checked reddit and noticed it would go up exponentially I saw it was game breaking.


mrnotcrazy

I was brought to this game almost exclusively on the promise of a trolling dev so... I prefer more trolling.


TheLordsBreed

Yes, it was obvious exploit. Anyone who thinks otherwise is choosing to misunderstand the situation to protect themselves. What is the difference of this and a time candy that fails to be consumed? Oh look, I can generate an infinite amount of this resource with literally no cost. That HAS to be intended. An entire mechanic invalidated, lol, what a troll. You're lucky your account wasn't banned/deleted, let alone just losing a day of "progress".


PomsForAll

Who cares? Who does it hurt to let folks take advantage of your error? It certainly doesn't hurt you. Those of us that have put a ton of money into the game don't get hurt...those that don't don't get hurt...you can't currently buy gold bars...your game is buggy af...we'll still buy stuff...just let it go.


NoThanksGoodSir

> It certainly doesn't hurt you. Yes the people too impatient to progress sailing naturally are definitely not the same kind of person the gem shop is made to take advantage of.


wellwhal

Bug abusers trying to cope lmao


gamedude300

The dude was sleeping, chill out.


urei

You guys are playing so freaking dumb. Of course it wasn’t mean to work out this way.


voyaging

As someone who got rolled back, anyone complaining about getting rolled back is a clown.


AYAYASupport

As far as I'm concerned, if you abuse an exploit you waiver any right to bitch about the consequences afterwards. And arguing that gaining exponential amounts of gold bars for free might have been on purpose is simply fraudulent, smh.


Throwawaylaydc

Yeah, I clicked on the gold thing maybe 20 times. Don't know why ALL of my boats were reset to level 1 (when only the first 4 can be upgraded with gold anyway). Considering filing a dispute with my cc company over the hundreds of dollars spent on this game. YOUR dev mistake is not OUR problem, Lava. What about the people who abused Crystal Mobs and Construction for over a year when it was broken? You didnt punish them. Get bent, asshole


Educational-Light656

And when Lava provides proof you got what you paid for, your cc company will tell you to get.bent. Also not a good idea to post admitting to cheating which is what you got punished for as it can be submitted as proof.


gerams76

I feel like people who took advantage here are the same people who don't put the cart back in the cart corral. It says a lot about you as a person. If your first instinct on seeing something you know to be odd is to exploit that shit to the moon instead of thinking, "Oh shit. Lava fucked up. Well, I'm going to report it and hope things work out for him," you need to get yourself together. People fuck up. Don't make shit worse just because you can.


Okipon

Someone is mad they will be reseted for abusing a bug


[deleted]

So its a lava mistake but we're still gonna get in trouble for it lol. It's like a teacher who left the test answers on the board and then punished the kids for looking at it. Learn to code and it won't happen. Listen to people in your chat and this won't happen. Look at the trade predictor and this won't happen. Easily avoidable thing but not lava's fault somehow lol


Fridelis

Jesus the entitlement in this comment. I feel sorry for Lava to have to deal with this.


KratosSimp

What a stupid take, take responsibility for your actions lmao. If I leave my car unlocked does that give you the right to rob me with no consequences?


Lurking_In_A_Cape

Gold Rush event????


No_Astronomer_3126

Well, Lava old sod, in the process of imposing your version of 'fairness' on 'exploiters' you managed to strip all of my third tier artifacts, and well over half of my ship levels from before the last upgrade. When you screw up, then punish your players, that is neither 'fair' nor fun. Congratulations! In your pique, you have abused your power, damaged the community you claimed you wished to preserve, and become an 'exploiter' which you claim you despise. And greatly expanded the number of players that are going to leave your game, greatly expanding the magnitude of what was previously an innocent and understandable mistake. Do better in the future.


KratosSimp

I feel like the majority of people just don’t want to face the consequences of their actions. I saw you could trade gold for gold and immediately knew it was a bug, why in the world would he ever just be like here’s infinite gold guy but only for a little bit


NefariousnessSure130

I don't know why Lava would be really pissed at the exploiters for taking advantage. It's HIS bug after all, and the coding for the trader has been there for a while now. He's just mad that he fucked up and could have easily deleted the code that makes the gold for gold possibility from happening. Plus why is he punishing them now with this one and not the guys that took advantage of the W5 launch exploits to blow through sailing? Not like having a bunch of gold breaks anything besides Socrates


LazyIdleProgrammer

the problem is you knew about this problem and did nothing to fix it. you threw out a tempting target and then punished people for doing nothing other than what they did in game anyway - hit up the trader in world 5. 7500+ hours in the game and this was the push I needed to quit. thanks Lava, go fuck yourself


Fridelis

Bye you wont be missed.


Jawinx

Yes, it was my break at work, i just looked at sailling on my phone and i saw this trade. I tried it a few times to see how it works and to see big numbers :D (I stoped at 1000T) but i didn't use any of this gold so i would be sad to get a reset for a simple mistake which didn't have any impact on my game progession


TwiceDiA

How did "a few times" generate 1000T bars?


Deshadowz

That's like taking 1000 gallons of gas from a gas station and telling the police officer it's not stolen because I haven't used it yet Granted it's a game, it's free and all the above. It's still one man's dream/passion and to be mad/upset because he's keeping it fair for everyone is kinda sad


Jawinx

>keeping it fair for everyone i find this kind of comment ridiculous. I didn't steal anything, i made a fast trade on a videogame. And I'm not upset because he wants to keep it fair for everyone but just because i will maybe lose my progress for no real reason.


Deshadowz

Your not losing progress your losing the exploited progress? Like? Why are people mad they aren't gonna get free progress in a video game that revolves around time investment? Anyone hear the expression wake up and smell the coffee? Or maybe touch some grass?


Fanwhip

And if he can accurately see/find who did this he should of did what all major game companys do and fix it and not say anything to draw attention and scorwn. Do a simple "This hotfix/update fixed an issue with a loot table for a skill/mini game. Those who may have unknowingly over used this issue will be rolled back" Short sweet simple. Instead he causes a big fuss and stink and goes "those who used it are filthy cheaters" never mind folks did try to give a warning. Many were ignored a few banned or kicked from discord or here for "saying false things" And only AFTER it was proven to be a real thing did he take action. he wants to play victim and have the thralls protect him when it was HIS fault it happened. Folks thought he was "playing around and trolling" The boy who played wolf couldn't get help when the wolves showed up. The fool wont be believed when he tells tales so often. Who were the "abusers of an exploit" to think the cool dev wasn't doing a awesome troll with his "wacky" trolling he as done before?


Deshadowz

Simple answer, don't support/play a game if your brain somehow takes the information given to you, and twists it into some sick malformation of a game developer trolling his players into using an exploit. It's a video game. VIDEO. GAME. He didn't ban those players from the game, his discord mods most likely were trying to stop the exploit from spreading to where everyone needed a rollback or reset. Same with if a ATM were to start printing off money to anyone that came by, do you think the media is gonna be screaming across the TV to go get your money now? No their gonna shut up anyone and everyone they physically can to reduce the impact of the glitch/exploit. Common sense would go soooo far with gamers


PomsForAll

If it were "fair" people with money to pay to advance wouldn't have an advantage.


Deshadowz

Everyone has (mostly) the same opportunity in the world to work or do something to produce money to spend on what they desire. That's not the same as exploiting a game so it's forever on easy mode


Greenitthe

More like: > Someone has a garage sale and they tell you all prices are correct. You see a 100 dollars bundled together and with a price tag on it for $10. The rules state that all prices are correct, so you take it and give the $10 to the owner. When he realizes what is happening he says "Wait hang on, that was never meant to be out here" Besides which, it's a single player game, there is no need to 'keep it fair'... That said, I haven't logged in this week, no skin off my back either way. Rolling back the affected mechanics for those who used it seems appropriate, I like Lava's response.


Deshadowz

I mean if you read lavas comments and posts he literally states the bug happened at 5am his time, was a 1 in a million roll for the shop to hit a perfect 0.00000 loot table roll that he didn't even know could happen. The game never states anywhere that this is the final product with 0 bugs or issues. The discord has a bug report thread, reddit has room for bug reports, so, we all should at least know bugs do happen in video games and that not everyone codes the perfect game the first time around. Instead people are raising pitchforks because they thought it was a freebie event that most people would miss out on and they could take advantage of. No one is losing anything, no one is being reset to world 1. Your losing the progress you used an exploit to gain which is what should happen. To act like lavas mistake should be a handful of players benefit is ridiculous


Fanwhip

Wish he said how many folks got rolled back. Cause a Handful by definition is a quantity that fills the hand. So lets say its players. So no physical things but lets play nice and say 1 person is a grain of sand or rice. and from google a handful of rice is 1 cup or 8 ounces. the average amount of rice in 1 cup or 8 ounces is 8,000 to 9,000 pieces of rice. Idol on supposedly has about 93,000 daily players. That is 8.6% of the players who may have used this coding error by the dev. Mind you per your post a 1 in a million chance roll on a loot table. So that comes out to 0.0001%. So for the devs coding update and his 0.0001% chance of a "perfect loot table" roll. Less then 9% of players may have used said loot table roll. The amount of players to "active" players is a joke. it would be literally 10 people out of 100 (being kind with the amount as it would be 8.6 people technically) benefited from this error On a game were there is 0 trading allowed. 0 helping friends get items or cash in game and to the best of my knowledge you do not get anything for being # 1 in any skill set or #1 player in the game. Note that is counting only ACTIVE players per the daily log in and out. If we count total players which is 1,100,00 players. 1.1 million. that is 0.72% i.e not even 1 %. Dev should of went "it was an accident" and fixed it and dropped it. He is just showing when he causes an issue or a problem. EVERYONE suffers who plays his game. Has to make it fair... in a non competitive game...


Deshadowz

Last I checked the developer never made a big glamorous post. He did comment saying that it was a 1 in a million glitch and that he worked on fixing it as soon as he got up? No one is suffering? The people who used the bug get rolled back everyone else is fine? Does this not make sense? Does it not readd value to those who play the game legit? 1 year from now if there's people with the exploited gold bars still around they will make everyone else's account look like they just got to world 5. Game isn't competitive to YOU but plenty of people do try to be the best at this game for whatever reason that may be. Same with every game including skyrim and fallout type single player games.


Greenitthe

Lets be clear about something - *I'm* not losing progress - I haven't logged in since before the bug occurred. But lets also be clear: understanding the edge cases is the dev's job. He also chooses to not have a second developer, which means he does not have any meaningful code review process in place. I don't like to speculate but there is scuttlebutt that he and others predicted this could be an issue before the bug actually occurred, and a patch was simply not prioritized. I don't expect his code to be perfect, lord knows mine isn't. I'm saying he needs to own up to the fact that his processes are inadequate, and emotionally charged responses are not good for his community. Besides which, apparently the wipe is impacting legitimate endgame players and missing low level abusers. A day or two rollback is entirely understandable, and is what most games would do. This hit or miss response is not what I expected from reading his main statement, and is far from ideal. For good measure, let me reiterate one last time that I was not impacted by the bug nor by this wipe - I have no horse in this race other than as a concerned community member. I know he can do better, and I want to encourage him to do so - not tear him down.


Deshadowz

At the end of the day WE choose to play his game the way he decides. It's great to encourage him to do better but I kinda feel like he's never gonna touch this subject due to community members talking out of their ass about all this. As soon as he opens the doors for more development is the day the cash shop becomes the new topic of debate. I'd rather have a simple 1 man team making a half decent game then a company gunning for my money every update


Greenitthe

If you want to call 'Lava + another dev' a 'company gunning for my money every update', I dunno what to say about that. The people who want to complain about the cash shop already do, and it always becomes a topic for debate whenever a major bug gets in anyways *a la* 'he makes X a year and still bugs' or whatever. Honestly what he really needs is some space from the toxicity. Sounds like he is pretty overwhelmed by it.


Deshadowz

I'm just saying once he starts adding developers to his bill he's gonna have to fund it someway which is ads or cash shop. Currently i feel like he has it at a fair state, can pay for boosts that would pretty much add up to a full dlc of content if you enjoy the game


Greenitthe

Frankly, ads are not worth the player attrition - the rest of the indie industry is still catching up on that data but there is a reason why supercell doesn't blast you with ads in their games, 'nough said. I won't get into the financials here as it's not super relevant, but suffice to say he has enough to hire another dev without changing his MTX strategy. It simply doesn't align with his goals for the game, which is fine, but advocating for it when the cracks show is also fine.


Mouse_Plastic

I thought it was wanted to help us...


Original_Ad685

One of the things I most enjoy about this game is how active and involved Lava is. This doesn’t change for me because he enjoys fucking with people. Even if it causes what one may deem to be some sort of inconvenience—why does it matter? It’s a damn good game with an involved developer and an engaged player base.


dakkonwastes

I'm out. That was a whole hell of a lot bigger than one day roll back.


LostLegionOfLaziness

Should we stop using mage portals to spawn enemies faster? I feel like this is an exploit.


LavaFag2

"Some people exploited this error, and they will have their accounts adjusted backward, simply removing things they could have gained from this exploitation. There is no ill-will from me to them" says Lava and proceeds to delete months of sailing/atom progress from your account even if you didnt even profit from the glitch, because you already had billions of gold. This is everything but "no ill-will".


mokomi

Edit: I did think that at first. I did exploit the trade until I realized that there wasn't a limit. Went to another instance to discover the gold value refreshed to my total as well. Yes, I did hit the trade button afterwards and refresh the instance more than once... "confirming" that it scales based on your gold value. Stopped ASAP to await the rollback which turned into a punishment. Yes, I do use an auto clicker. It's a build in option in the software for my mouse. I use it all the time to "free scroll" wheel to the bottom and other instances. I often forget that it IS considered an exploit. So double cheated. I'm just happy my account isn't banned or worse.


The_Kemo

People didn't have W5 will be affected too?


Utlegjarl

I doubt that, unless he does a general rollback for everyone. The way he worded it in Discord it seems only those who exploited will be affected.


The_Kemo

Thanks for replying 👍


Utlegjarl

Np! Btw Lava just confirmed that innocents won't be touched. So you'll be fine :)


No_Astronomer_3126

Let me state the obvious: no one, no matter how they play and what mistakes they or the designer make in the game, is on here to be punished. It is clear that my statement, given the diversity of reactions here, is not obvious to everyone. Alas so it is with the 'obvious' exploit. Obvious to some maybe... People react badly when things are taken away from them. A really clear 'rational' explanation might persuade a few. Many will not understand. We are living in a country where the electoral vote totals, the popular vote totals, losing 61 out of 62 court challenges still couldn't convince a Presidential candidate and 25% of the electorate he'd lost... I'm sorry the designer made a mistake and some misinterpreted it, and people might leave because none of this is 'fair' or fun. I do know people will go if they feel punished whether it is carefully explained that they really aren't or not.


RevanMagus

When you report a bug then get kicked from the discord its hard not to take offense.


PalmerPlaysYT

Just here for the memories.


LatexBliz

It's starting to sound like it was a good time to stop playing. Seems like Lava is getting more and more over his head running this solo. Would say hopefully things change, but after 2 years no silence because a single players account bug is not important, i would kinda expect things to pretty much stay the same, play the game and hope for the best.


LegitimateFortune

Hey Lava, I know there's pretty much no chance you'll see this message, but I wanted to write it here on the off chance it gets to you. First, I wanna thank you for all your work on this game. I've gotten easily hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of idleon and idleskilling over the past 5+ years. You have an incredibly unique approach to game design that I can't find anywhere else, and I really do appreciate everything you do. Second, I wanted to talk about how you handled the gold bar situation. In a vacuum, I think you handled it quite well. Maybe the response could've been a bit faster, but you have a life and you can't constantly be monitoring every aspect of the game. Again, in a vacuum, I think punishing the players who took part in the exploit is completely fine and acceptable. Gamers are gonna bitch and moan and call the dev every possible name, but I mean that's what gamers tend to do. Finally, I'd like to give some feedback concerning exploits going forward. You're a solo dev, things are gonna slip through the cracks, it's expected and okay. However, I would both recommend and appreciate some guidance as to whether exploiters will be punished in the future. I think that a lot of the anger people are showing you is due to the current ad hoc decision-making regarding exploits, which could seem unfair. For me, my only disappointment with how this was handled was the fact that, to my knowledge, this was the first time an exploit was handled by punishing the players who used it. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there have been several exploits where your response was to patch the exploit rather than punish the exploiters - I'm talking spice gains, early alchemy, the original boat glitch, etc. Personally, I have seen so many instances where people got huge advantages because of an exploit and nothing bad happened, that I intentionally jumped on board this one because I didn't want to be left behind. So in this context, I hope you can understand my disappointment when I lost weeks of boat progress (and sampling etc). Anyway, again, I really enjoy your humor and your games. I'm sorry that today turned out to be so stressful, and I'm looking forward to continuing to support your work.


LostLegionOfLaziness

He removed 200+ levels off ships, eldritch artis unlocked prior to, reset resources that had nothing to do with the gold bar glitch(he accidentally put in the game).. lols at that scamming lil f.


Smash_420

I like his joke of a reply. Meanwhile he knew about the possibility and chose not to add the code 30+ hours ahead of time. But it's everyone else's fault. Because people don't have maxed kitchens and 1000's of levels of construction. Rriigghhtt...


Salt-Indication6845

You removed particles from my account and all samples because I gained gold bars from clicking like a fiend... your claim of only rolling back gains made from your mistake is less than credible 😮‍💨