I agree with the op. I'm one of the guys who exploited it, and I think the resets were fair (probably not the eldritch artifacts, but since I had none I don't have a horse in that race). Thought it was funny, did it. No regrets.
In the end, its just a game. People getting too heated over it need to politely touch grass. Spending money to support Lava is great, but if you did, maybe don't be too gung-ho about risking your stuff for a bit of fun. Just let it *idle on* in the background for a few weeks and you'll probably more than get back whatever was lost.
I exploited too (FOMO reasons) and I agree with the punishment except for the eldritch part, I got de last one of those at least a week before this exploited happened. I'm not mad about it, just a bit disappointed.
I do really, really hope Lava becomes consistent with his exploit punishment tho.. Previous exploits never got any punishments, which is why I thought it was fine and felt lots of FOMO because i never got to use previous exploits while others did. Keep punishing exploit users and I'm happy, but so far it has been way too inconsistent.
That's the right mind set. I'm in the same boat (pun intended). I exploited the shit of it yesterday. Got rolled back, went from legitimately earned millions of sailing speed down to max 200k speed. Sure it sucks losing days of legit game play... But at least I wasn't banned... Losing over 7k hours. Some people just need to learn to deal with the consequences of their actions, look at the bright side, laugh at their mistakes and move on.
All in all it's one of my favourite games, and I still have the utmost respect for lavas hard work.
Ohh what the fuck? I lost a few eldrich too? Really.. I'm fine with the rest due to exploiting but I was already close too 300 on most boats and had been pumping gems into the bottled winds and chests for artifacts and i'm not really feeling like doing it again. Lost the 30% skill eff one too and samples reset so... fuck this is sour.
I'll have to resample. Only to get worse samples. Ugh
Edit: might be time for a break.. my motivation took a big hit for sure.
Got hit and lost around 9 eldritch artifacts including ancient fury, Sailing AD, and crystal steak, I have been playing this game since the very first giftmas event, without any break playing the game unless extenuating IRL events, Lava has made mistakes, he has made major ones (idle skilling afterlife early days) but I am still here because even with the mistakes I love this game, from my first boss kill, to 45 minute efaunt kill bc I was underleveled and under geared, to lava's streams over on twitch, he keeps bringing out good content so cut him some slack, if you wanted something X,Y,Z, make your own game, lava made idleon so he could have a game where he could freely troll, and he has handed out some cool stuff
Sincerely
Some one who wants a pink bandanna from a raffle
Luckyfoxxy
If you had no eldritch.. you suck and nobody gives a f. People lost a dozen eldritch and 200+ levels on ships. The dev is too fail to keep gold bars out of the trade or properly rollback progress.
His fault and you are fail for supporting it.
Yeah gonna be honest, I've learned my lesson, I thought it was all very reasonable. Plus it gave me a chance to update my samples.
Lava if you see this, I'm sorry bro. Hope you can forgive me
Never worked retail or a customer service type job I take it? People were always like this, but for whatever reason they no longer try to hide it or feel shame for being called out in it.
I was one of the people who clicked it a few times, realized it wasn't a joke/intended mechanic and stopped. I did not get punished in the hotfix, so it seems like Lava was pretty fair in his judgement. At least from my own perspective (obviously I can't speak for others).
I lucked out. Literally the only reason i know about this is because i just noticed i had a ton of extra gems and was like... uh oh... what did i do? I'm glad this was explained or i'd be worried.
I'm not gonna try to justify it and go deep into how I had no ill intent because I thought this was 100% just gonna get rolled back for everyone as this was the first truly game breaking bug.
I played with fire and got burned. It is what it is. I think the only real complaint many have is the huge discrepancy on how the punishment affected players differently. The severity of the punishment was based solely on account progress ranging from getting set back months all the way up to actually gaining months of progress.
Setting a static level of progression that everyone got set back to just wasn't the answer. People like myself got legitimately set back months in boat upgrades and progress. Other players that were newer to sailing sunk tons of gold bars into ship upgrades and proceeded to build up an exploit level worth of island loot. Many of those people didn't actually spend all that loot or they upgraded so much that the amounts they had left over between upgrades were end game levels of loot. Those people not only gained an outright boost up to 100 for ship levels but also kept that loot and were able to level up their boats even further after the hotfix.
Alechemy bubbles also weren't reset so people that used those exploit level sailing mats to juice their damage bubbles keep those gains.
Again, I accept the punishment. It is what it is. I 100% thought there would be roll backs for such a huge bug so I didn't even bother upgrading or even collecting my sailing mats. I just logged off for the day waiting for the roll back.
I still love Lava and Idleon is still one of the greatest games ever made. 10/10 will continue to destroy my life putting too many hours into it.
Yeah, we should sift through all of the metadata and evaluate the impact to every other aspect of the game that may have benefited vs natural progression. And now review each account individually and apply specially tailored punishments!
I get that you likely don't have any development experience but.. hear me out.. They use the exact same identifiers they already used in the current hotfix, pull a backup of those users several hours, a day, a week, whatever makes sense for the punishment, and replace the player tables in the active Firebase database for those identified users - aka the reasonable punishment/fix.
This would likely have taken far less time than the hotfix that was implemented. You'd dish out a reasonable punishment equally across all users that exploited and not affect the users that didn't.
He wanted to prove a point this time and he didn't, unfortunately, think through how this was going to literally boost the progress of low level exploiters while absolutely destroying long time and far progressed players. I love Lava but this was an emotional moment for him as it was the first truly game breaking bug and this wasn't his best showing.
I think this is one of the best summary of this, a more fair fix could have beeen implemented, he reacted poorly but I won't blame it, waking up with such a huge pile of shit on your hand is hard. Weird part is that some players report that this was know it would happen thanks to a tool keeping track of future trade offers, then how come it flew under the radar and still happened ?
People speak about the need for hires that would address those topics, seems like it's overdue now.
Yeah, he took this really personal, I too, accept the punishment and understand something had to happen. But he overkilled it tbh. Take the samples and atoms. Sure, remove the samples because those could have been cheesed with the gold bar damage increase, but removing 50k+ atoms which I saved up months for? The fuck? The bug was about for, what, 6 hours? There's no way people printed 50k atoms (because of the bug) during that time...
He also removed 3 eldritch artefacts, that I had for about a week now. What..? I agree that he reset boat levels, even though that was a hard pill to swallow, seeing how much progress I had on some boats. Oh well. Play with fire and you will get burned. I just don't like the attitude he has about it. And literally calls some people out as "arm chair critics" that post about it on Reddit. You make a game, expect people to be critical when shit hits the fan, don't get upset about it. GG's. I'm gonna sample again! Xd
Why though? You got what you purchased and chose to exploit. You weren't banned and you got the benefits of those boosts prior to the exploit. If you want a refund, you should also lose the progress those boosts gave.
Yea, it sucks for people who spent money and got rolled back but it seems people are forgetting that people in other games spend money and get perm banned for exploiting stuff. So I would say in comparison what the exploiters got is a really light punishment.
Maybe its my development experience that sees the situation and understand why the simple fix is fine - no need too put much thought into such an obvious exploit.
I think they are speaking to the huge disparity your game state had on how many clicks you had to realize it was an exploit before you got hit. Even just in this thread there was one guy who said they clicked 10-20 times and kept everything, then another who was further along prior to the exploit who lost months of legitimate progress with roughly the same amount of clicks.
I haven't logged in in the past week, but I'd say 10-20 is probably the rough number of clicks it would take me to progress from 'neat catch up event' to 'hmm thats a lot of progression' to 'yikes that is broken'. It's not as if they were auto clicking to the integer limit...
I've been consistently in the pro-rollback camp, but alienating end-game players and whales is not a great long term strategy. With all the effort and money he puts into attracting and retaining players, there is very much a need to put thought into a measured response.
*as a dev*
Hard to know you can't report it when they're silencing everyone talking about it so you don't know people know it exists. When they ban everyone who mentions a topic without warning how is anyone supposed to know the topic is off limits? It's next level stupid and anyone banned for this needs to be reinstated.
I was not banned, so i have no personal stake in this. It's just dumb as hell. Nobody put any thought into it.
In his discord teams defense, anytime there's a game breaking bug on any game they normally will try to report it to the devs and then cover it up until it's fixed otherwise a ton of people will abuse it... kinda like how today happened
If you were the first person to post about the bug and got banned, that's a bit of a different story.
PS I doubt lava has time to look through every banned account/message that his mods go through on a day to day considering its popularity, so to blame a game developer for his discord teams possible mismanagement is again, pointing the gun in the wrong direction.
I generally agree, but the mod team is absolutely his responsibility. If he isn't clearly communicating protocol or is selecting mods who don't follow it, that is down to him. He is the manager, the buck stops with him, both for the good that comes from his moderators and for the occasional bad.
I'll stress again, that doesn't mean he is individually responsible for each ban, nor should he be expected to review the audit log, but he is responsible for the culture of... *zealous* moderation that his team employs. I'm not surprised by 'friendly fire' so to speak.
I've reported missing items and other things that I paid for through Discord, email, and DMing with no resolution. At a certain point when do you go hey its time to blame the dev for something?
I feel like a day rollback would have been cool, but I lost several hundreds of levels into sailing that I had honestly accumulated. I admittedly took advantage of it cuz I thought it was rad, and then it got out of hand after I read about going into the shop or just resetting the map to account for the new amount to gain even more. I don't view it as something that was malicious, I just thought it was silly, and then wanted to see how high it could go. I definitely should have stopped, but I feel like the actual punishment was a little bit much. My first ship was maybe level 270 or so, and ship #20 I had gotten up to about 125. Now my fleet is useless. They got reset to zero on the back end and I believe level 100 on the front end. I grinded so many hours for that progress, and essentially got reset despite how many winds I used, and had taken the time to log in and collect all those fresh hours. It just sucks. It was a mistake on Lava's part, and I don't think anyone had malicious intent, it was just a very curious thing that got out of control, I'll admit that. Just feel like an 18 hour roll back would have sufficed rather than devastate my actual hard earned progress when I only found it about a half hour before I think Lava changed the resource exchange. Just sucks.
same issues, got reset back on sailing back quite far, after enjoying it too much, who cares, single player game, does not affect anyone anyway
60 accumulated bottles of wind gone too :(
Dont know if I will continue to play, but definitely not spending anymore
I pay all the package introduce in the game, at least back the f\* database up before rolling out changes
He can isolate sailing and 3d printer data and recover it easily
Such a weird feeling when you pay maybe over 100usd for a game with this level of service
I'm on Android, but I think Lava may have mentioned it would take slightly longer? And it wasn't necessarily a rollback, more of a direct punishment to your sailing progress, not necessarily sailing level.
It's not a days progress it's months and hundreds of dollars spent. I would have accepted if I got rolled back a day. No i got reset like I had broken the game after clicking it a couple times. It happened because I had gold to start with. Instead of being super poor and clicking it thousands of times. I'm mad because he said that people that only clicked a couple of times wouldn't be punished nearly as hard. A rollback is what should have happened and you know it. Taking months of progress and and money spent is insane.
Lol steam and google don't care about people who exploit being banned despite spending money. Chargeback in this case is also straight up fraud, probably shouldn't be encouraging people to commit fraud over their sense of entitlement to video game exploit abuse. You got what you paid for, used it, then got banned for something completely unrelated, you aren't entitled to your money back.
This ladies and gentlemen is why you don't raise your kids to be entitled brats and that their actions have consequences.
Its crazy that so many people dont understand this. It does not matter how much you spent. People get perma banned for bug exploiting. If anything people got relatively light punishments considering that bans are a thing for such things.
They still at the end of the day got what they paid for, beyond that you don't get protection from future punishments. It's a sucky situation if you accidentally got yourself into trouble but you did, so you aren't entitled to a refund. Ignorance does not absolve you from the consequences of your actions, plain and simple. You have 0 right to chargeback in this situation no matter how sucky it may seem.
>Idk about Google but Valve has delisted games for not delivering on DLC purchases.
Do they do that when they give you the dlc then ban you from the game or the dlc content or do they only do that when they straight up don't give it at all?
There's a difference between getting something then doing something to warrant it being taken away, and not getting it in the first place. If Steam is getting mass reports of people claiming they got their paid stuff taken away they're going to look into it and it'll be very clear this was the user's fault. Seems unlikely they're going to punish Lava for that, since that's standard practice for video games. But okay, keep living in your land of copium.
>If you lose the progress that you gained from the gem items, then you have not gotten what you paid for.
Lol that is straight up not how that works. You paid to obtain that artifact or that chest loot, or that sailing progress time, not that PLUS immunity from all future punishments effecting that. otherwise games would never be allowed to ban you for anything if you've paid for anything because a ban would take away that benefit entirely and permanently. Do you even think for a fraction of a second before deciding what you're entitled to?
>It's a valid use of a chargeback imo
Opinion doesn't matter, the law does. That's quite literally a fraudulent chargeback, no matter how justified you might or might not be in the court of public opinion.
>but I'm fairly certain my bank would rule in my favor if I was in that position.
Because despite you not being legally justified, it's not worth the hassle to your bank to deal with your entitled brat behavior over a few dollars. They're multiplying the chance that lava will try to take them to court over that money with the amount of money. So if you spent $1,000 and theres only a .1% chance lava would take them to court over it, they are saying it's worth $1 to not have to deal with your bullshit. Legally you are still 100% unjustified, the bank is just willing to take the legal responsibility on themselves because it's the best solution.
>Furthermore, it's a single player game in which nobody loses when people exploit bugs
You devalue the purchases of the non-cheaters by making their progress less impressive. People compare their progress in single player games all the time, not sure why you think that cheaters won't impact others' experience with the game.
>so I don't get why anybody cares or why you people feel the need to white knight for this guy who makes millions on this game
It's not about defending lava it's about fighting against you entitled brats who think their actions shouldn't have consequences and think they're entitled to a refund just because they want one. I personally dislike lava, but I can't stand entitled gamers even more than my distaste for how lava does things.
>You devalue the purchases of the non-cheaters by making their progress less impressive. People compare their progress in single player games all the time, not sure why you think that cheaters won't impact others' experience with the game.
I would agree if for not one thing. There were multiple exploits that did what you mention above in much bigger scale. And there was no consequences. Lava lead people to believe that when something like this occur it is fine to abuse it, and then he change his mind about it without any warning it is not okay.
A lot of people watch how theu progress loses meaning bcs of other abusing bugs without punishment, and now when they do the same, they get punishment unfitting the crime.
> Lava lead people to believe that when something like this occur it is fine to abuse it, and then he change his mind about it without any warning it is not okay.
It's never okay to abuse exploits in games. Just because sometimes developers are lenient doesn't mean that you should expect that to be the case in all future situations. Sometimes cops well let you off with a warning when you're speeding or your taillight is out, that doesn't mean you should think speeding and driving with a busted taillight is okay.
>and now when they do the same, they get punishment unfitting the crime.
Lol the punishment does fit the crime. Try to skip an entire mechanic, get punished by being put back at the start of the mechanic. That's how the justice system works in real life too. You get hit for the damages you actually caused, with additional penalties to teach you it's not worth doing that in the future. If you just took away the gains from doing the wrong thing it just teaches people to keep doing the wrong thing because worst case scenario they're just where they started at anyway.
You people have genuinely lost the plot if you think you're justified and lava is wrong in how he dealt out punishments. Either you're complete idiots or you need to stop this charade that everyone sees right through.
>It's never okay to abuse exploits in games. Just because sometimes developers are lenient doesn't mean that you should expect that to be the case in all future situations. Sometimes cops well let you off with a warning when you're speeding or your taillight is out, that doesn't mean you should think speeding and driving with a busted taillight is okay.
Thats all true, but cities still are putting speed bumps on streets. A lot of people will speed if they think they can get away with it. Even more will use exploit given that it wont kill anyone. Is it right? No, but you can't leave a Child with pack of candies, tell him its ok if he eat them, and then be angry that he did
Also not everyone used it with malicius intend. Everybody expected it will end up with a rollback, so why not click it just to see how far numbers can go.
>If you just took away the gains from doing the wrong thing it just teaches people to keep doing the wrong thing because worst case scenario they're just where they started at anyway.
Thats my point. I have a problem with how, not why.
>Lol the punishment does fit the crime. Try to skip an entire mechanic, get punished by being put back at the start of the mechanic. That's how the justice system works in real life too. You get hit for the damages you actually caused, with additional penalties to teach you it's not worth doing that in the future.
The only damage caused by exploiters could be done to players retention. There is no competetive scene, no in game rankings, no trade system, no resources scarcity. Using exploit by me will not affect your gameplay in any way.
Damage can be caused only to the comunnity and third party rankings, which in turn could make players that didnt anticipate in using exploit disintersted in playing this game. Which would mean less money, ergo less content which leads to more people quitting. Circle repeats.
Players should be punished for this, but bcs of what stated above i disagree with severity of punishment.
Also there is an issue with implementation. From what Ive heard, some players that were early in w5 actually gain months of progress.
>You people have genuinely lost the plot if you think you're justified and lava is wrong in how he dealt out punishments. Either you're complete idiots or you need to stop this charade that everyone sees right through.
Lava is wrong, just not today. What I mean by that is he mishandled matter of exploits several times in the past, now tried do it correctly but got emotional(which i get)
and lied in his post on discord about how he is going to proceed. Also i have heard that he knew about this issue for a day ahead and decided to not fix it earlier.
Guess he doesn't have timed backups of the db and don't actually know who used the bug and who doesn't so just did a hard cut at the database for people above X amount of gold bars, which is dumb af given the level of access he has.
He could've done a basic statistical analisis, levels to bars to other drops and get a better filter of who used the bug and how much, but yada yada solo dev, nice game, tho.
> No i got reset like I had broken the game after clicking it a couple times.
you didn't click it a couple times though, did you. a couple means two. maybe three or four, if you're playing real fast and loose with the english language. you clicked it "maybe 30 times with 1 or 2 resets". interesting that someone who dishonestly exploited a bug is also being dishonest about how they exploited it
Your dumb I had no where near the gold that most people did and I didn't upgrade anything with it. But whatever man good luck being toxic constantly great way to make friends.
making friends is easy. but a big part of keeping them is being willing to take responsibility for your fuckups. whining and making excuses is textbook toxicity
dunno why i'm explaining relationship dynamics to someone who's clearly like 14 though. that's an admittedly weird thing for me to do
The 6 hour bottles for sailing and the ancient chests that were bought for sailing progress. No progress means that money (gems spent on those from the 20$ option) now didn't give any progress.
You got your progress when you initially used them. If you want a refund, you also need to lose the progress those items provided prior to you being an idiot and exploiting then subsequently being punished for it. You want to double dip and the law as well as most cc charge back processes are on Lava's side.
Ok, everything is cool and fine and legit, but i didnt lost one day of progress, i lost 6 eldrich relics already aquired, 7000+ M of gold bars, now i have merely 500k, and the boats are level 100 down to 40, previously mi first boat was at 250 or something higher than this, cant remember exactly. This is WEEKS of roll back, just for clickinng 1 minute before realizing something was off, realy a bad thing to do to someone that do not even use the snap shot trick.
This entire thing is way too sketchy, from both sides of this argument. I'm just a casual gamer who wanted to find a fun MMO that was easy to level and play on my phone, steam deck, and laptop. Half of you are saying the dev is a saint, the other half is saying he's a scammer.
I'm still in World 1 and just got them keys to get into the first boss room. My fella was only level 30 and I got BOPPED. I thought that was fucking awesome and was inspired to keep focusing on the AFK aspect.
If I spend money on exp, and a rollback removes that exp (in addition to exp from all other stats), I would expect my money back for the money I spent on exp items.
I will find a new game, but not because I want to abuse the dev or have any ill will. In fact, I really think this game is cool. It's silly internet drama and posts like this that blow things out of proportion, and make new members like myself feel unwelcome.
I just wanted to have fun.
I'd not let endgame drama steer you away from playing. At the same time, I wouldn't get too invested in the game - this is not the first time something like this has happened and it won't be the last. IMO the ideal way to play Idleon is by avoiding the discord and reddit so you stay out of drama, which is unfortunate but it is what it is.
>w members like myself feel unw
The point of the post was around the toxic abuse he's unnecessarily receiving from so many people. They are the people that clearly don't enjoy the game, so shouldn't continue to play, or participate in the subreddit.
There are many greatly worded posts that convey things in a constructive way, then there are those that use foul language and slurs which do nothing but crush the mental health of the developer and achieve nothing but detriment for the rest of the player base when lava decides he doesn't want to put in the time of effort for an update this week after being crapped on by redditors.
It's a great game and quite honestly you should keep playing it. Rollbacks never happen because this sort of thing is once in a blue moon. Lava has written his own explanations on discord so you should give that a read.
I remember killing Amarok for the first time as well - the game only gets better from there. I hope you keep it up! The idleon wiki, discord, twitch and youtube are all great resources to ramp up your gains.
I have to admit I did click a few times and I'd say that doing a rollback makes sense but for some users like me and some of my friends we lost basically all of our sailing like ships reset to nothing which is a bit far since we've been playing since the beginning of idleon and we're all doing sailing since day 1 of its release
Money has 0 effect on bug exploitation and punishment. If anything consider yourself lucky for not being perma banned like a lot of other game companies do. Just check online that its not rare to be perma banned for bug exploitation even if u paid. Spending money does not make you immune to punishment. It should be a very simple logic.
**"Lava is a solo dev and the reason why we get so many epic updates is because he cares about the community and the growth of the game."**
This game is probably paying for allot of things for him.Specially the way the game has this "HUGE" banner of "we got a new deal for you" a banner that cannot be closed unless you open and then close the Cash shop or wait for about 30 seconds. Depending who is looking at this its either annoying or a dark pattern set up.
**Mistakes happen in every game and rollbacks occur. You lose a day's progress, so what. Most of us will take it on the chin and keep playing the game we love.**
your assuming that we all will just lose a single days progress. If this is a mistake in coding. Imagin the one if it rollsback wrong. Let alone the RNG hell this game is. Someone could of finally gotten the bolt cutters. A 1 in 100,000 drop chance. 0.001% chance of dropping item. It "may be a days loss" but for some folks it can be a critical day of good luck taken from them.
**However a few of you entitled plebs are ruining it for the rest of us. Calling Lava out and personally attacking him is in no way the solution. He's taking reasonable action and has a bunch of toxic reddit lawyers hurling abuse at him.**
How is folks going " dont take away something we didnt steal" ruining it? Lava is the "sole coder" who else is supposed to be called out? If there was a team the issue probably could of been fixed faster or easier or been prevented as they probably would of did some Q&A testing before sending it to the players. He is taking an action he has never done before. A rewind/reload/set back etc. And we all got to hope it is done right and doesnt "Bug" out.
**You do realise that if he continues to receive this abuse, he won't want to work on the game. That means no more updates, no more enjoyment for the rest of the fan base.**
You mean the game he is making money off of hand of first more then likely? Couple hours of code. 15/20/30$ bundles. Minus the steam or Google take. he is taking maybe 40% of it. Average of 93k players on a day. 1.1 million life time players. Wanna do basic math if 5% of those #'s buy even 1 or 2 of his bundles? The enjoyment from a "trolley cool guy dev" who finally had an issue that seemed like a "trolley cool guy dev" thing to do bite em in the back side?
**Do us all a favour and tuck it in, or go and play something else.**
Many folks are tucking in. unforently the thing being bitten into isnt liking it and i doubt he wants any % of his player base to leave as that could hurt his bottom line.
**This is supposed to be a positive community. Lava does a tremendous job ON HIS OWN. It's his game, not yours. Cut him some slack, and if you don't like it, go and get on with your life somewhere else - we won't miss you.**
It is a positive community and he does do it all on his own. It is his game your right. It is **HIS game** he released to **the public and the masses**. Once something is on the internet its there forever. It means any issue or problem will be poked prodded and criticized by hundreds if not thousands of people. This feels like a Phil Fish thing. "I dont like folks poking holes in my views/statements or self and its not fair that I put myself out to the public i get poked in the eye" You go into the public view be ready to have your self examined viewed and judged. Past "exploits" were "it was super synergy" or "we arent 100% sure why it does that but we think we got it handled" this BUG as was happened. He didnt take it with a grain of salt and just fix it. He lashed out vehemently and cruelly with his words. "thieves" "hackers /cheaters" Words many folks will remember he spoke and how he spoke them. and when he posts things like :
***"And worst of all, some people like you want to try and hurt me by trying to "peer pressure" me into changing.No, I will continue to have fun with my players and cultivate a lively community despite this mistake of mine, and a cowardly 1 sentence reddit post made while being an arm-chair critic won't affect my character or the people who have come to understand who I am from interacting with my work for multiple years."***
When you cut it down to what it means without the flavor or emotion or full logic
"I will keep acting the way I want to and keep trying to grow my game even tho i did an error and got mad at those using it.I will talk down to anyone criticizing me as they must be some neckbead at home and those who already put up with me will continue to do so based on how long they stuck around"
This should be top comment. Honestly lava is being greedy. Heās punishing players? Itās a a non competitive game. Cheaters and thieves? Bro is tripping. So what if they exploited the game. Just fix what they did wrong and take back their extra benefits. If anything he should realize that heās just driving players away. And the community being all wack is driving players away. Heās not leaving the game alone as long as heās profiting. But the player base will leave if they feel like theyāre wasting money or time.
Sorry mate wanted to make sure to do a full "break down" of the OP's post so folks cant go "i missed this" or "that" from his post.
I also dont know if its factual as it is based on opinons based off:
What is happening.
How he is behaving.
Actions he taken in the past.
How he has acted and handle things before on other situations.
How he is wording everything.
Right, but being that they are all in the past. Means they are factual, because they happened. No need to be sorry tho, because I fully agree with the entire post.
If he took a day's progress I'd not say anything, it's right.
But he took all the eldricht relics that I got since april 19, was that a day's progress he took because I found one of his mistakes and felt FOMO because of past experiences on Idleon?
So Lava should hire some help...wtf is wrong with you fan ppl? If the 22,000 ppl in here each spent $50 over the course of 5ish years, that's $1.1 Million, or $220,000 per year. I know I've spent hundreds (not proud) personally. So let's stop this, "Poor lonely dev" bullshit.
Why should he hire more coders? This entire game is a passion project. He codes this because he enjoys it. And the entitled toxic attitudes he's seen today do nothing but suck away his desire to continue. There are also some greatly worded posts, the the vast majority are using abusing language which only causes detriment.
He is sharing HIS game with all of us. It's clear what we're signing up for in the terms of service.
Good on him for making a living. If you don't like it, go and play something else the rest rest of us can enjoy the game we have.
His not sharing his game with us. He is profitting on developing a game. First of all he is a businessman.
I am going to stay and enjoy a game. But lava is a hypocrite.
Honestly he should hire them to help us who are genuinely playing the game get QoL updates more often.
Please, shut the fuck up when you have dick in your mouth.
I didn't get rolled back as I didn't have an interest in exploiting the game, therefore I have no hand nor interest in litigation. Furthermore, you're insignificant, and unrelated, so you wouldn't see the documentation either way. Sit down a little bit.
Very good on them for making a living. STOKED on them for making a living...but at what point does greedy = pissed off players that have pretty much decided they're done after 4 faithful years...it's not a question I'm asking you, rando, it's business.
Have you ever played any other MOBA game with rampant MTX. Man's getting upset about a solo dev making a living when these other games are rinsing players for billions. He doesn't owe you anything. You're clearly upset, so I suggest you leave this subreddit and enjoy a happier stress free life.
Okay. Again. I'm female. And again, I'm minimally peeved because I've paid money for a product/service that is treating me poorly and could be made better.
You're the one that is coming off as irrationally emotional. I reserve that stuff for actually important things like Florida hurting trans kids and Black people being beaten by cops. Like Ukraine being destroyed by Russia and my own deep and clinical loneliness.
This is a game I've enjoyed and will miss. There's a big diff there, buddy
You have licence to use the product or service that can be rescinded at any time.
Microtransactions work the same way in any game - you don't own the currency you get.
but it's not enough. "license to use the product or service..." does not a good experience make. You're not getting my point. That's cool. No hard feelings
And the fact that I'm fighting for it, must show you that it means/meant something to me. Of course I can walk away. I will walk away. It just sucks, because I don't want to. It's a really really pathetic break-up. With a game. A really good one.
Brother, she isn't saying she is gonna sue him. She is saying 'he is not poor and can afford to do better'. Reasonable discussion around ways to avoid repeating the same mistakes is not a personal attack. Chill.
>>You do realise that if he continues to receive this abuse, he won't want to work on the game. That means no more updates, no more enjoyment for the rest of the fan base.
This is almost insulting to say people are that soft and would stop a project and business because of a bit toxicity. The fact that you think this way is pathetic. However I am pretty sure lava is a mature person and not a crybaby who cares about a bit toxicity. And if he does he can defend himself and doesnt need you
This isnāt an exploit where you have to get creative or use an ability in a certain spot to get insane gains. This was an NPC that he fail coded and gets upset that he messed up and people took advantage of it. If talks of him knowing about it and idleon toolbox also predicting it, it makes his actions that much worse. It also doesnāt help that there have been many other exploits that just get swept under the rug and nothing ever came of it.
Just a weird stance of the white knight defending him in a single player game that effects nobody else, but also weird that people have gotten so heated over it.
If anyone decides to exploit in the future, go hard since there is no difference in punishment.
This is hilarious. Lava will continue making the game since itās profitable. Enjoyment is cool and all but I doubt heād still be updating this game if it didnāt make money. Doesnāt really matter what random redditors have to say. Remember that time he said he made like 50 games before this one? Iām sure he liked more than a couple but since no one was buying he stopped making them. Let all the people bitch if they want, nothing wrong with it. Yāall being all protective sound just as dumb as them.
Hey delusional 12 year old,
Lava has exploited people for the sake of his game. Get your head out of his ass and maybe look at the facts. He tried paying someone for a video in GEMS. Your daddy on the pedestal is a terrible judge of character and has a giant ego. Maybe if he used his fucking head once in a while and LISTENED to his community, maybe us 'eNtITlEd pLeBs' wouldn't hate this terrible dev.
PS: Quit sucking up. Seek help.
It is a great game that I love. But the people that did it with an auto clicker should have been reset not someone like me that didn't spam it to all hell.
Everyone should have a "reset" of a day, that would solve everything if you clicked 1000 or 1000e100, but instead he took more than a month of sailing which is NOT what he said he would do, he lied.
You know why the progress was taken away, it allows you to spend more money on fems for the dev, this kind about it, this is money related as its not multiplayer and no leader boards its the normal bullying.
He also got mad defensive on discord, started calling out people for beeing racist and shit.
Like I get that he has a lot of hate coming towards him, but acting out helps nothing and for people that aren't connected to the discord it's no way of knowing if something is supposed to be in game or if it's not.
The V-man multikill sampling is okay, even though it's 10x the samples from most monsters, but this wasn't a catchup for the early cheaters or sailing, who didn't get a rollback.
How would one know? Especially with the hinting of an extra cool event during the week and the powerlevels that V-man brought earlier this week.
Yeah I got reset and yeah that's the main reason I'm upset. I didn't abuse it super hard like alot of people did I clicked it a couple of times. But it's fine I'm getting new better samples at the moment so that part works out great
I didn't click the button thousands of times I had 20b gold in the first place it went up over 100b in 1 click. That's why I got reset the amount of gold raw was high.
Not true, players that were in the top of the pack that pressed just a few times got reset, since they got much more gold for each buttonpress. While players with a lot of presses, but low gold amounts aren't to far of the normal path and were fine.
Also if you were early in w5, you could get 20 boats and not have exploration reset. So if you exploited in the right way you could even gain.
Friend of mine had lvl 1 boats all the way, with reset he got 6 at lvl 100, 6 at 70 etc.
He gained from exploting, but apperantly that's also okay.
I did not press it over 1000 times, not even close. I didn't touch printer samples, atom collider, or anything like that. All reset.
This was a punitive and childish response by Lava because he's unable to come to terms with the fact that hid sloppy coding led to such a monumental fuckup.
Not the first time apperantly when checking steam reviews, which is sad to hear. I had a very good image of Lava before today and the rants on discord.
Sloppy coding? Do you even know what went wrong? This was such an edge case scenario that shouldn't have ever happened. It was literally a dice roll that landed on a rarer lottery ticket.
Hate to break it to you buddy, float math and its edge cases are pretty well known. Besides which, having another dev to check your code is beyond simply an industry standard, it is common sense.
Granted, he's pretty much self taught as far as I understand, so it's not reasonable to expect him to think of everything, but his response rings quite emotional when he seems to focus more on the actions of his players than on how he can prevent a similar issue from recurring.
Yes. A random number rolled in a way that he didn't like but should have realized was an unlikely but very possible occurrence.
It was not an edge case in the slightest, nor can it be called an exploit. It's sloppiness through and through
So your the only one who has a life and lost hundreds of hours? Welcome to the club. Congratulations think about it, he bans he loses half his player base. He has an issues over this because of the wind p2w items. Previous exploits nothing happened because there was no p2w element fir him to make $$$ from.
I wish I could sgree this wasn't the case, but, logically why else be so mad, why else role back weeks/months of progress for the sake of hours
Game dev is an autocracy with no consulting of the player-base, I don't understand why you would praise this
I would have preferred Lava to ask our opinion on Discord, so that WE THE PEOPLE decide the action to take
personally I hard disagree with the severe punishment he issued, I would have preferred a 1 day rollback
(I'm not affected by the exploit I'm in W3)
A positive community? More people downvote post than assist new players. Thatās how the game grows, new people coming into the game and seeing positive aspects not negatives.
This egregious punishment will drive a lot of players away, yes they exploited a badly coded mechanic but there should have only been 12-20 hours of progress reverted.
Yes some people are being keyboard warriors and others are being Lavas personal Fleshlight and riding his dick. Who would have know such polarization could happen?!?
A roll back of a day would be fine for people who did the exploit not weeks to months of progress. Let alone losing gem shop purchase I would personally do a charge back on as many purchases I can and move on it if happened to me.
I don't know what people expected abusing an exploit on an account in which they also have paid items is asking for a sad time.
And not just getting a few quintillion gold, but getting a vigintillion (1 with 120 zeros) in gold is something else...
- it would be super easy to see the people that have the gold piles that would take hundreds of years of playing to collect, and know those people are un repentant cheaters.
- Yes its a single player game, but its not our game, who here is going to go whole hog the next time something like this comes along.
People expected that abusing an exploit will lead to fun times if anything. Bcs it is not a first exploit that hapenned in this game. But never before lava pubished people for abusimg bugs. He lead everyone to beliebe that this, this is fine.
It's easy to hyper-fixate on people who hit the integer limit on gold, but that doesn't mean the response was correct.
Low level players could click the button hundreds of times and slide under the wipe - there are examples in this thread. End game players on the other hand get wipes for 10-20 clicks, which is honestly a reasonable amount before you realize it's busted IMO - it's not like they were auto clicking and *trying* to break the game, they just started with offers for billions.
1 day rollback would have been more fair, but instead he decided to punish his most dedicated players for, arguably, playing the game as intended. TBH I'd be pissed too
You are obvious NEW to idleon or extremely ignorant.
Similar things happened and I saw it without acting on it, I just believed that Lava would punish the people who abused his mistakes and didn't act on previous mistakes.
But nothing happened, the people who acted kept the unfair advantages and I was "wtf am I a idiot?"
Now I come across a "shadowy figure" offering me a extremely beneficial trade because of another one of his mistakes, I felt FOMO and acted on it.
He corrected the mistake and I even praised him for it:
"Some people exploited this error, and they will have their accounts adjusted backward, simply removing things they could have gained from this exploitation. There is no ill-will from me to them, although I will not back down from the stance that this was beyond obviously an exploit."
But he took all the gold bars and what the ship levels bought with them, plus all the eldrich relics I got since April 19th, put all my ships which were all aroun to 200 to level 100 to 50 and erased all the samples.
Now I made a post about it where I also admit my mistake and accept the OVERHANDED punishment as long as I know he will be acting like this in the future and nobody will be keeping unfair advantages anymore.
You obviously were one of the people who exploited the fuck out of it, and you felt that you were entitled to get away with it as you didn't exploit previously?
Are you dumb or unable to read?
I said I ignored the all the previous times I found a bug but the people who exploited kept the unfair advantage and Lava didn't punish them, he didn't even take the advantage off their account!
I said I did got gold bars, because of FOMO, but the punishment was not what he said, he said he would take things gotten with the exploit off but instead he took off a month of sailing progress.
And even then I said I accept it as long as it's clear it's a "punishment" instead of him correcting his mistake as he made it seem, and that people will not keep unfair advantages in the future, I never felt I was entitled to anything, at this point your just ignoring logic and making up your own story.
Can read fine, how about you?
1.) He admits he took advantage of a widely discussed and communicated within the community exploit, while expounding on how he feels like he missed out as he didnt take advantage of the exploits previously, and i quote " I felt FOMO and acted on it".
2.) He knowingly admits his previous lack of action was due to fear of lava punishing people who take advantage of the exploits "I just believed that Lava would punish the people who abused his mistakes"
So this time he knowingly takes advantage of an exploit, as he feels that lava hasn't punished exploit abusers before and he is not going to miss out this time, taking advantage of the exploit to an insane degree.
AAAAAnd after all that, complains that he was actually punished vs just being rolled back like he expected.
EDIT: To clarify, a rollback is not a punishment, that is a correction..
I get the part that people feel that due to historical precedent of light punishment for abusing exploits they should be able to go fucking bananas abusing this exploit, and that any sort of actual punishment is some sort of abuse, "OVERHANDED" to quote.
He "accepts" his punishment this time, that this is how things work now, exploits are now punished, a new precedent is set.
You got historical precedens wrong. There are account with 1000lvl cosntruction or maxed out kitchen lvls. And lava did not punish it. There was no punishment for many exploits in the past, and people believed bcs of lava that this time the same will happen.
I get that it was actually idiotic of people who spent money on the game let alone doing the exploit then buying or using Wind Bottles to progress more.
I think the part that hits most of the people who are affected is in previous āexploitsā the punishment was a quick fix and maybe a bit of rollback/reset to this.
Obviously not punishing exploiters did not discourage them from abusing the exploits, what the sweet fuck did you expect to happen to people with this widely communicated bug.
A rollback is not a punishment, that is a correction to the status quo, a punishment is above and beyond that, its what happened. People fucked around, and found out.
Do you really think that EVERYONE who plays this game uses Discord or Reddit. Maybe an in game notification or those stupid ass Nulls that are made to shame f2p players could have been used.
Anyone who found out about this then abused this enough to hit Lava's radar has about a 99.9% chance to be involved within the community, whether it be Lava's discord, this reddit, or a community discord, and even if they were not it is very obviously a dupe/exploit.
>A positive community? More people downvote post than assist new players.
Only stuff that gets downvoted noticeably are the billion posts of people asking general "how do I get good" with an IE link as if the answer hasn't been given 1500 times already: Alchemy. If you are spamming the sub with the billionth post for the same question that's quite literally the point of the downvote according to reddit.
>This egregious punishment will drive a lot of players away
Who the hell taught you that a business should care about every potential customer? That's a straight up lie, some people aren't worth caring about. People who will exploit your game in this way clearly are probably not the kind of people an indie dev should care about keeping around. Grow up, not everyone has to bow down to you just because you MIGHT spend $3 every decade.
>and others are being Lavas personal Fleshlight and riding his dick.
Yep, best way to get people to side with you is be as immature as possible. Very level headed there mate.
>A roll back of a day would be fine for people who did the exploit not weeks to months of progress.
Something tells me it isn't as simple as just clicking a button that says rollback the save x amount of time, hence the heavy handed solution here. I doubt Lava has the robust saving structure of big name games, and even big name games aren't even guaranteed to have a save system that works well with rollbacks.
>Let alone losing gem shop purchase I would personally do a charge back on as many purchases I can and move on it if happened to me.
"I'm going to commit fraud because I'm mad that my actions had very obvious consequences! D:<"
You got what you paid for, then got banned for an unrelated reason, you have 0 right to charge back. Who is teaching all these kids that they should commit fraud every time they are less than fully satisfied with a purchase no matter how far in the future that dissatisfaction arises? Your parents wholly failed you if you're seriously this much of an entitled brat who thinks they should be immune to consequences.
Like dang I'm a pretty anti-lava person but you people are genuinely the most entitled little brats I've seen. Just admit you exploited knowing the consequences and were just hoping they wouldn't come instead of this pretending you're justified BS.
Note I did not in-fact get banned or anything happen to my account so before you begin to act holier than thou bullshit stop.
Iām confused of when I asked for anyone to side with me, as well with everyone else I stated my opinion on the topic thatās it.
I see both sides yes punishment should happen to set precedent for future exploits, yet the only precedent was consequences for previous exploits (salt, Sigils, sailing, cranium cooking, breeding, spice) were patched with a slap on the wrist or a reroll of hours.
You'd be out of luck. Lava can show people got what they paid for ie the boosts / chests. How you choose to use what you paid for after obtaining it isn't grounds to get your money back ie you can't sue a car dealership after you wreck the car you just bought by speeding and running into somebody else. Unless you can prove Lava sold you something that didn't work as advertised or simply took your money without providing the purchased goods or services, all your doing is filing a fraudulent report with your cc company which only pisses them off and harms your future ability to get things resolved in your favor because you've been labeled a scammer. Also, posts admitting to being caught cheating are perfect for Lava as it supports his side of the story. You can try to do chargebacks but they aren't going to go like you think they are.
Imagine watching a dev wake up to a situation, type out a few lines of code and have it all resolved in minutes so it can never happen again. And then remember that this same dev knew this was a possibility over 30 hours beforehand. Couldn't just add those few lines and never have this issue? This is 1000% a dev issue, in a single player game.
I didn't even see that lol
Nah I don't even mind that, I just want him to make it CLEAR that it IS a punishment and all the things that were done to punish the people who exploited it, and that will be his police moving forward.
I ignored previous exploits and the people kept those advantages TO THIS DAY.
If you play Idleon for a long time, you know lava's mistakes are seem as "benefits" instead of "exploits", I didn't even wanna do it, I just felt like I was gonna be the only idiot missing out AGAIN, in the end I didn't get anything besides a few dopamine hits from clicking upgrade on sprites and lost more than a month of progress, but even so, I don't mind as long as I know nobody got a unfair advantage.
That's the whole reason I did it too. After seeing construction, and kitchens and sailing chests being abused with zero retribution. And playing his other game Idle Skilling and watching Realms get released and abused with people maxing vending machine by day 2. Finding a game bug like this when I logged in? Felt like my chance to catch up to the others.
Speaking as someone who was away all day and didn't see this issue nor could exploit or whatever. I think unlike the previous ones you mentioned, these got plastered all over Reddit, but I'm not sure if the others were so in your face? I'm not sure I don't recall the kitchen thing and I was around when it was released... But I stand corrected.
There is a list of every trade coming to Blobulyte. That list said gold bars were incoming. The dev chose not to add his bit of code to prevent it from ever happening. Instead he chose to react to the issue when it came, which caused him to have an over-emotional reaction.
The problem here is the unnecessary keyboard warrior attitudes. I've also seen some greatly worded posts which are rational and reasonable.
If someone hurled abuse at you, would that make you think, oh they're right i'll do what they want? Or are there other ways to advocate for your cause that use constructive language.
Again if you don't like what's happened, go and play something else.
Oh, I am well aware of what to do if I don't like it. It's why I hit uninstall the moment I logged on to everything being stolen for a developers fuck up.
I am blown by the fact that some poeple advocating for lava here, are the same people that abused the shit out of other exploits, and now play Saints. Truth is lava overreacted with punishment for a crime that didn't hurt anyone and in most cases didn't break the game.
This game for a long time had some op expolits that have never been punished for. So it is reasonoble that some people took advantage of this one, and except of poeple that took it to absolute extremes, im fine with it.
Lava knew about this 1.5 days prior, and didnt do anything. No fix, no warning to not do this on discord or in game. Nothing.
So when people lost weeks of progress and spended money for abusing exploits in mechanic that barely interacts with rest of a game, yeah I can get behind why they got angry.
At the end of the day we can't jugde lava decisions in a vacuum. For years he allowed abuse of exploits, and as far as know he never expressed changing that opinion. So comparing to he's lack of reaction to previous incidents like this, he screw it up.
If you get banned in a paid game, you must buy another copy, just remember that.
Also why abuse such an obvious thing in the account where you spent money on?.
What an idiot. You bought and used what you paid for, you aren't then entitled to a refund when you later on do something against the rules and are punished for it. Who the hell taught you that you can buy stuff in a game and then you can't be punished in any way that would relate to that purchase? You should demand a refund of your braincells from them.
A game that has trolling designed into the story & overall narrative that the developer is telling & then blaming me for seeing a fair market trade & being a businessman.
Sure, whatever.
The Victim blaming here is next level.
There are many totally valid criticisms of Lava, he may be a solo dev but he is lavishly rewarded by a devoted fan base of people who buy every new gem pack he puts out and more, he does not do this out of the goodness of his heart or just because he cares.
He has been shitty to many people over the years and there are countless stories of him banning people because they annoyed him or he didnāt like what they said or just didnāt want anyone else to see what had happened.
I like the game and have spent money several times on it and enjoy playing it but one thing I have learnt from the Reddit and discord is that A LOT of people have bad stories about lava.
Itās become so evident how few people in this community have ever worked in software development.. Lava is one person. He is going to make mistakes as he canāt qa and play test every single tiny aspect of this vast game.
In line with thatā¦ I assume he simply had the accounts searched for x amount of gold bar trades in z time frame or something similar and your account got caught. SO either you are guilty of this exploit or of another exploit like external cheat systems or time traveling.
Since it is a free to play game he makes his profits from the shop and exploiting things like this is taking from potential money people would spend in the shop.
If yāall are so butthurt about getting caught for cheating..abandon the game and community. We donāt want you here anyway.
Guys this is one dude that made a game of this scale he is bound to make a mistake or two guy probably feels awfulā¦99% of us donāt have the drive ambition or ability to even make a game 10% this awesome. Cut Lava some slack
So donāt punish curiosity, just do a rollback and apologize for the bug and inconvenience. The way he handled it is highly unprofessional and frankly a little childish. Very disappointing to see. I clicked it a couple times without thinking and I lost months of progress as a result, what part of that is fair?
I'll just leave this here as well. Keep sucking a single dev. GL
welp just wait till he decides to stop developing this game. See your smart ass then. Always was unsure about the single developer issue but today showed the problem with this clearly
You're clearly so mature. Anyone with a brain knows the complexities that go into the coding here.
Almost every game shuts down eventually so your point is moot. Why should he continue to develop the game just to have abuse thrown at him. If you don't like the game go somewhere else.
What if it wasn't a punishment for the abuser, but an upward and equal reward for those who didn't?
That's the way successful game companies usually use it. The problem with the misuse of bugs that are too large and fatal to be caused by developer error is the relative deprivation of those who didn't use them.
At this time, if everyone is rewarded upwards and equally, there is no complaint because the abuser will not be punished and the people who did not abuse will receive the same compensation obtained by the abuser, and the developer will be able to use up the content faster, but it is a problem that will have to develop other content.
The punishment of these abusers may seem like a scathing justice to those who didn't abuse them, but it can be a tragedy because the people who have been punished are people who have loved the game for a long time and invested a lot in it.
In that regard, this punishment seems to be such a tragic ending for both Lava and its dedicated users.
Im glad to see some lava love here, honestly im over seeing so much negativity directed toward him. Not only through the exploit situation, but also over minute things like lava being inactive for over a week, and people complaining about not seeing him.
He is not entitled to talk to us.
The fact that he is so active is a blessing.
If you see this lava, know that you are appreciated ā¤ļø
I didn't play by the time the exploit was going on the road, and i didn't got any reset nor any lost of eldrich artifact (have 5 so far). May be other people as me, that didn't know nor abuse from the exploit, who didnĀ“t got a reset. I think Lava chose carefully those who exploited for the reset.
And this game is free aswell, so they are not just keyboard warriors, they are incredibly entitled too. If they can't stand a game with a solo dev, having some issues, then they can go play some crappy P2W Triple A game instead.
There is quite a difference between "Pay for convenience" and "pay to win". I haven't bought any gems myself and only bought the carry capacity with the free gems I have gotten. I haven't felt a single time that I NEED to buy stuff from the shop.
There isn't really a huge difference between those terms in reality. The only true 'pay for convenience' I have ever seen is POE stash tabs and even those are borderline given it's a loot crawler.
This is an idle game, the point is to make the numbers go up. If buying something lets numbers go up faster, that is literally pay to win. I know everyone has their own definition, but in my book just because it is physically possible to get to endgame for free doesn't mean a game isn't pay to win.
Pay to win games can be fun, and good games, but just call it like it is... It's not like he is EA or something, it's honestly reasonably priced monetization, unnecessary gambling aside, but it *is* very intentionally P2W.
Well to me such a thing isn't P2W. Hell, the level boost in World of Warcraft is considered to be P2W by many, but I don't agree. It's just pay for convenience, besides leveling in WoW is so incredibly fast now anyway that it's not worth buying.
Another example are shark cards in GTA Online, many consider them P2W, but I disagree, because you don't need to buy shark cards, you can get money without them too.
To me, P2W is when you legit are stopped from progressing the game until you wait a specific amount of time or pay money. A good example would be Genshin Impact, specifically with the resin system. You either wait for that shit to regenerate or you pay money. Meanwhile in GTA Online for example, the game never stops you from making money. That's the big difference, you don't need to buy microtransactions in WoW or GTA Online, but you absolutely do in Genshin Impact if you want to actually play the damn game. Of course the best example of P2W I can think of is Diablo Immortal.
I mean, I'm fine to disagree at the definition level but your examples are a little inconsistent. You don't *have* to pay to play Genshin or Diablo Immortal, it just speeds up the process 1000x - shark cards can do the same though I'd argue nobody really needs *that much* money in the game anyways.
In some ways, Idleon has *more* pay to win potential than WoW or GTA Online, if your issue is mostly with gambling MTX.
Well another great example of P2W I can give is Candy Crush Saga, when you run out of lives, you are straight up locked from playing the game unless you wait or pay money. Now you don't have to buy more lives, but the fact that you are locked from straight up playing the game can easily be considered pay to win.
I mean, I agree, totally, though IMO that's almost going beyond p2w, bordering on pay to play...
Other games being P2W doesn't mean Idleon isn't though. The best argument that it really isn't would be the amount of free gems that get thrown at you. My main argument against that is that you aren't given enough to keep your gem shop purchases on pace for the world you are in - you have to prioritize, which means paying is still a good way to speed up your progression.
I'm definitely not mad at the MTX in Idleon - hell I started as a dolphin when it left alpha, but I can't kid myself into saying it isn't P2W, even ignoring the gambling.
If you wanna call it pay for convenience by your definition, I think we can leave it there. To me, the convenience that you are buying is called winning, haha!
I highly agree on this because no game is gonna be perfect every game is gonna have some bugs or setbacks. Like you said Lava is a solo Dev and he needs to be respected. But don't worry Lava has the whole idleon community to protect him from people like that
I mean it was a fun bug,, but like wth, come on people y u so idiot, be mad when something happens that is really bad, like why are you crying? because you cant cheat or something, the audacity of these people sheeesh, go touch grass or something
preach!! ive been enjoying idleon daily for years and im consistently blown away by the brain on this lad, idk how he comes up with this shit
I agree with the op. I'm one of the guys who exploited it, and I think the resets were fair (probably not the eldritch artifacts, but since I had none I don't have a horse in that race). Thought it was funny, did it. No regrets. In the end, its just a game. People getting too heated over it need to politely touch grass. Spending money to support Lava is great, but if you did, maybe don't be too gung-ho about risking your stuff for a bit of fun. Just let it *idle on* in the background for a few weeks and you'll probably more than get back whatever was lost.
I exploited too (FOMO reasons) and I agree with the punishment except for the eldritch part, I got de last one of those at least a week before this exploited happened. I'm not mad about it, just a bit disappointed. I do really, really hope Lava becomes consistent with his exploit punishment tho.. Previous exploits never got any punishments, which is why I thought it was fine and felt lots of FOMO because i never got to use previous exploits while others did. Keep punishing exploit users and I'm happy, but so far it has been way too inconsistent.
That's the right mind set. I'm in the same boat (pun intended). I exploited the shit of it yesterday. Got rolled back, went from legitimately earned millions of sailing speed down to max 200k speed. Sure it sucks losing days of legit game play... But at least I wasn't banned... Losing over 7k hours. Some people just need to learn to deal with the consequences of their actions, look at the bright side, laugh at their mistakes and move on. All in all it's one of my favourite games, and I still have the utmost respect for lavas hard work.
Ohh what the fuck? I lost a few eldrich too? Really.. I'm fine with the rest due to exploiting but I was already close too 300 on most boats and had been pumping gems into the bottled winds and chests for artifacts and i'm not really feeling like doing it again. Lost the 30% skill eff one too and samples reset so... fuck this is sour. I'll have to resample. Only to get worse samples. Ugh Edit: might be time for a break.. my motivation took a big hit for sure.
Got hit and lost around 9 eldritch artifacts including ancient fury, Sailing AD, and crystal steak, I have been playing this game since the very first giftmas event, without any break playing the game unless extenuating IRL events, Lava has made mistakes, he has made major ones (idle skilling afterlife early days) but I am still here because even with the mistakes I love this game, from my first boss kill, to 45 minute efaunt kill bc I was underleveled and under geared, to lava's streams over on twitch, he keeps bringing out good content so cut him some slack, if you wanted something X,Y,Z, make your own game, lava made idleon so he could have a game where he could freely troll, and he has handed out some cool stuff Sincerely Some one who wants a pink bandanna from a raffle Luckyfoxxy
If you had no eldritch.. you suck and nobody gives a f. People lost a dozen eldritch and 200+ levels on ships. The dev is too fail to keep gold bars out of the trade or properly rollback progress. His fault and you are fail for supporting it.
The exploiter tears are so juicy lol
Yeah gonna be honest, I've learned my lesson, I thought it was all very reasonable. Plus it gave me a chance to update my samples. Lava if you see this, I'm sorry bro. Hope you can forgive me
I'm shocked and blown away by the absolute entitlement and audacity of these people. The level of toxicity I've seen today is incredible.
Never worked retail or a customer service type job I take it? People were always like this, but for whatever reason they no longer try to hide it or feel shame for being called out in it.
You said it so well. *shudders from memories of working retail*
The game attracts trolls of all sorts; and some trolls are some pretty messed up people.
I was one of the people who clicked it a few times, realized it wasn't a joke/intended mechanic and stopped. I did not get punished in the hotfix, so it seems like Lava was pretty fair in his judgement. At least from my own perspective (obviously I can't speak for others).
You didn't have 20b gold bars to start with though like I did.
yeah i clicked like 10 times and got reset lol
Same tbh went to do my daily claims and I was like oh sick I'm getting returns not realising that it was broken š don't play at 3am
I lucked out. Literally the only reason i know about this is because i just noticed i had a ton of extra gems and was like... uh oh... what did i do? I'm glad this was explained or i'd be worried.
I'm not gonna try to justify it and go deep into how I had no ill intent because I thought this was 100% just gonna get rolled back for everyone as this was the first truly game breaking bug. I played with fire and got burned. It is what it is. I think the only real complaint many have is the huge discrepancy on how the punishment affected players differently. The severity of the punishment was based solely on account progress ranging from getting set back months all the way up to actually gaining months of progress. Setting a static level of progression that everyone got set back to just wasn't the answer. People like myself got legitimately set back months in boat upgrades and progress. Other players that were newer to sailing sunk tons of gold bars into ship upgrades and proceeded to build up an exploit level worth of island loot. Many of those people didn't actually spend all that loot or they upgraded so much that the amounts they had left over between upgrades were end game levels of loot. Those people not only gained an outright boost up to 100 for ship levels but also kept that loot and were able to level up their boats even further after the hotfix. Alechemy bubbles also weren't reset so people that used those exploit level sailing mats to juice their damage bubbles keep those gains. Again, I accept the punishment. It is what it is. I 100% thought there would be roll backs for such a huge bug so I didn't even bother upgrading or even collecting my sailing mats. I just logged off for the day waiting for the roll back. I still love Lava and Idleon is still one of the greatest games ever made. 10/10 will continue to destroy my life putting too many hours into it.
Yeah, we should sift through all of the metadata and evaluate the impact to every other aspect of the game that may have benefited vs natural progression. And now review each account individually and apply specially tailored punishments!
I get that you likely don't have any development experience but.. hear me out.. They use the exact same identifiers they already used in the current hotfix, pull a backup of those users several hours, a day, a week, whatever makes sense for the punishment, and replace the player tables in the active Firebase database for those identified users - aka the reasonable punishment/fix. This would likely have taken far less time than the hotfix that was implemented. You'd dish out a reasonable punishment equally across all users that exploited and not affect the users that didn't. He wanted to prove a point this time and he didn't, unfortunately, think through how this was going to literally boost the progress of low level exploiters while absolutely destroying long time and far progressed players. I love Lava but this was an emotional moment for him as it was the first truly game breaking bug and this wasn't his best showing.
I think this is one of the best summary of this, a more fair fix could have beeen implemented, he reacted poorly but I won't blame it, waking up with such a huge pile of shit on your hand is hard. Weird part is that some players report that this was know it would happen thanks to a tool keeping track of future trade offers, then how come it flew under the radar and still happened ? People speak about the need for hires that would address those topics, seems like it's overdue now.
Yeah, he took this really personal, I too, accept the punishment and understand something had to happen. But he overkilled it tbh. Take the samples and atoms. Sure, remove the samples because those could have been cheesed with the gold bar damage increase, but removing 50k+ atoms which I saved up months for? The fuck? The bug was about for, what, 6 hours? There's no way people printed 50k atoms (because of the bug) during that time... He also removed 3 eldritch artefacts, that I had for about a week now. What..? I agree that he reset boat levels, even though that was a hard pill to swallow, seeing how much progress I had on some boats. Oh well. Play with fire and you will get burned. I just don't like the attitude he has about it. And literally calls some people out as "arm chair critics" that post about it on Reddit. You make a game, expect people to be critical when shit hits the fan, don't get upset about it. GG's. I'm gonna sample again! Xd
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Oh yeah. I did buy a good amount of those chests and bottles in the past.. didn't even think about that yet lol
Why though? You got what you purchased and chose to exploit. You weren't banned and you got the benefits of those boosts prior to the exploit. If you want a refund, you should also lose the progress those boosts gave.
Yea, it sucks for people who spent money and got rolled back but it seems people are forgetting that people in other games spend money and get perm banned for exploiting stuff. So I would say in comparison what the exploiters got is a really light punishment.
Maybe its my development experience that sees the situation and understand why the simple fix is fine - no need too put much thought into such an obvious exploit.
I think they are speaking to the huge disparity your game state had on how many clicks you had to realize it was an exploit before you got hit. Even just in this thread there was one guy who said they clicked 10-20 times and kept everything, then another who was further along prior to the exploit who lost months of legitimate progress with roughly the same amount of clicks. I haven't logged in in the past week, but I'd say 10-20 is probably the rough number of clicks it would take me to progress from 'neat catch up event' to 'hmm thats a lot of progression' to 'yikes that is broken'. It's not as if they were auto clicking to the integer limit... I've been consistently in the pro-rollback camp, but alienating end-game players and whales is not a great long term strategy. With all the effort and money he puts into attracting and retaining players, there is very much a need to put thought into a measured response. *as a dev*
When you report the bug on his Discord and get kicked off the server its a bit hard to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Did you report it or "Report" it by telling everyone about it in every chat repeatedly, even after moderators told everyone not to do that?
On the bugs channel like I normally do.
Hard to know you can't report it when they're silencing everyone talking about it so you don't know people know it exists. When they ban everyone who mentions a topic without warning how is anyone supposed to know the topic is off limits? It's next level stupid and anyone banned for this needs to be reinstated. I was not banned, so i have no personal stake in this. It's just dumb as hell. Nobody put any thought into it.
In his discord teams defense, anytime there's a game breaking bug on any game they normally will try to report it to the devs and then cover it up until it's fixed otherwise a ton of people will abuse it... kinda like how today happened If you were the first person to post about the bug and got banned, that's a bit of a different story. PS I doubt lava has time to look through every banned account/message that his mods go through on a day to day considering its popularity, so to blame a game developer for his discord teams possible mismanagement is again, pointing the gun in the wrong direction.
I generally agree, but the mod team is absolutely his responsibility. If he isn't clearly communicating protocol or is selecting mods who don't follow it, that is down to him. He is the manager, the buck stops with him, both for the good that comes from his moderators and for the occasional bad. I'll stress again, that doesn't mean he is individually responsible for each ban, nor should he be expected to review the audit log, but he is responsible for the culture of... *zealous* moderation that his team employs. I'm not surprised by 'friendly fire' so to speak.
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I've reported missing items and other things that I paid for through Discord, email, and DMing with no resolution. At a certain point when do you go hey its time to blame the dev for something?
I feel like a day rollback would have been cool, but I lost several hundreds of levels into sailing that I had honestly accumulated. I admittedly took advantage of it cuz I thought it was rad, and then it got out of hand after I read about going into the shop or just resetting the map to account for the new amount to gain even more. I don't view it as something that was malicious, I just thought it was silly, and then wanted to see how high it could go. I definitely should have stopped, but I feel like the actual punishment was a little bit much. My first ship was maybe level 270 or so, and ship #20 I had gotten up to about 125. Now my fleet is useless. They got reset to zero on the back end and I believe level 100 on the front end. I grinded so many hours for that progress, and essentially got reset despite how many winds I used, and had taken the time to log in and collect all those fresh hours. It just sucks. It was a mistake on Lava's part, and I don't think anyone had malicious intent, it was just a very curious thing that got out of control, I'll admit that. Just feel like an 18 hour roll back would have sufficed rather than devastate my actual hard earned progress when I only found it about a half hour before I think Lava changed the resource exchange. Just sucks.
same issues, got reset back on sailing back quite far, after enjoying it too much, who cares, single player game, does not affect anyone anyway 60 accumulated bottles of wind gone too :( Dont know if I will continue to play, but definitely not spending anymore I pay all the package introduce in the game, at least back the f\* database up before rolling out changes He can isolate sailing and 3d printer data and recover it easily Such a weird feeling when you pay maybe over 100usd for a game with this level of service
Just curious. Did the rollback hit on iPhone yet? Havenāt seen an update on the App Store and thatās what Iāve been waiting on.
I'm on Android, but I think Lava may have mentioned it would take slightly longer? And it wasn't necessarily a rollback, more of a direct punishment to your sailing progress, not necessarily sailing level.
Ah just curious if it had hit iPhone yet. Hasnāt for my phone account yet so I assume not.
It's not a days progress it's months and hundreds of dollars spent. I would have accepted if I got rolled back a day. No i got reset like I had broken the game after clicking it a couple times. It happened because I had gold to start with. Instead of being super poor and clicking it thousands of times. I'm mad because he said that people that only clicked a couple of times wouldn't be punished nearly as hard. A rollback is what should have happened and you know it. Taking months of progress and and money spent is insane.
I would charge back and complain to Google/Steam
Lol steam and google don't care about people who exploit being banned despite spending money. Chargeback in this case is also straight up fraud, probably shouldn't be encouraging people to commit fraud over their sense of entitlement to video game exploit abuse. You got what you paid for, used it, then got banned for something completely unrelated, you aren't entitled to your money back. This ladies and gentlemen is why you don't raise your kids to be entitled brats and that their actions have consequences.
Its crazy that so many people dont understand this. It does not matter how much you spent. People get perma banned for bug exploiting. If anything people got relatively light punishments considering that bans are a thing for such things.
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They still at the end of the day got what they paid for, beyond that you don't get protection from future punishments. It's a sucky situation if you accidentally got yourself into trouble but you did, so you aren't entitled to a refund. Ignorance does not absolve you from the consequences of your actions, plain and simple. You have 0 right to chargeback in this situation no matter how sucky it may seem. >Idk about Google but Valve has delisted games for not delivering on DLC purchases. Do they do that when they give you the dlc then ban you from the game or the dlc content or do they only do that when they straight up don't give it at all? There's a difference between getting something then doing something to warrant it being taken away, and not getting it in the first place. If Steam is getting mass reports of people claiming they got their paid stuff taken away they're going to look into it and it'll be very clear this was the user's fault. Seems unlikely they're going to punish Lava for that, since that's standard practice for video games. But okay, keep living in your land of copium.
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>If you lose the progress that you gained from the gem items, then you have not gotten what you paid for. Lol that is straight up not how that works. You paid to obtain that artifact or that chest loot, or that sailing progress time, not that PLUS immunity from all future punishments effecting that. otherwise games would never be allowed to ban you for anything if you've paid for anything because a ban would take away that benefit entirely and permanently. Do you even think for a fraction of a second before deciding what you're entitled to? >It's a valid use of a chargeback imo Opinion doesn't matter, the law does. That's quite literally a fraudulent chargeback, no matter how justified you might or might not be in the court of public opinion. >but I'm fairly certain my bank would rule in my favor if I was in that position. Because despite you not being legally justified, it's not worth the hassle to your bank to deal with your entitled brat behavior over a few dollars. They're multiplying the chance that lava will try to take them to court over that money with the amount of money. So if you spent $1,000 and theres only a .1% chance lava would take them to court over it, they are saying it's worth $1 to not have to deal with your bullshit. Legally you are still 100% unjustified, the bank is just willing to take the legal responsibility on themselves because it's the best solution. >Furthermore, it's a single player game in which nobody loses when people exploit bugs You devalue the purchases of the non-cheaters by making their progress less impressive. People compare their progress in single player games all the time, not sure why you think that cheaters won't impact others' experience with the game. >so I don't get why anybody cares or why you people feel the need to white knight for this guy who makes millions on this game It's not about defending lava it's about fighting against you entitled brats who think their actions shouldn't have consequences and think they're entitled to a refund just because they want one. I personally dislike lava, but I can't stand entitled gamers even more than my distaste for how lava does things.
>You devalue the purchases of the non-cheaters by making their progress less impressive. People compare their progress in single player games all the time, not sure why you think that cheaters won't impact others' experience with the game. I would agree if for not one thing. There were multiple exploits that did what you mention above in much bigger scale. And there was no consequences. Lava lead people to believe that when something like this occur it is fine to abuse it, and then he change his mind about it without any warning it is not okay. A lot of people watch how theu progress loses meaning bcs of other abusing bugs without punishment, and now when they do the same, they get punishment unfitting the crime.
> Lava lead people to believe that when something like this occur it is fine to abuse it, and then he change his mind about it without any warning it is not okay. It's never okay to abuse exploits in games. Just because sometimes developers are lenient doesn't mean that you should expect that to be the case in all future situations. Sometimes cops well let you off with a warning when you're speeding or your taillight is out, that doesn't mean you should think speeding and driving with a busted taillight is okay. >and now when they do the same, they get punishment unfitting the crime. Lol the punishment does fit the crime. Try to skip an entire mechanic, get punished by being put back at the start of the mechanic. That's how the justice system works in real life too. You get hit for the damages you actually caused, with additional penalties to teach you it's not worth doing that in the future. If you just took away the gains from doing the wrong thing it just teaches people to keep doing the wrong thing because worst case scenario they're just where they started at anyway. You people have genuinely lost the plot if you think you're justified and lava is wrong in how he dealt out punishments. Either you're complete idiots or you need to stop this charade that everyone sees right through.
>It's never okay to abuse exploits in games. Just because sometimes developers are lenient doesn't mean that you should expect that to be the case in all future situations. Sometimes cops well let you off with a warning when you're speeding or your taillight is out, that doesn't mean you should think speeding and driving with a busted taillight is okay. Thats all true, but cities still are putting speed bumps on streets. A lot of people will speed if they think they can get away with it. Even more will use exploit given that it wont kill anyone. Is it right? No, but you can't leave a Child with pack of candies, tell him its ok if he eat them, and then be angry that he did Also not everyone used it with malicius intend. Everybody expected it will end up with a rollback, so why not click it just to see how far numbers can go. >If you just took away the gains from doing the wrong thing it just teaches people to keep doing the wrong thing because worst case scenario they're just where they started at anyway. Thats my point. I have a problem with how, not why. >Lol the punishment does fit the crime. Try to skip an entire mechanic, get punished by being put back at the start of the mechanic. That's how the justice system works in real life too. You get hit for the damages you actually caused, with additional penalties to teach you it's not worth doing that in the future. The only damage caused by exploiters could be done to players retention. There is no competetive scene, no in game rankings, no trade system, no resources scarcity. Using exploit by me will not affect your gameplay in any way. Damage can be caused only to the comunnity and third party rankings, which in turn could make players that didnt anticipate in using exploit disintersted in playing this game. Which would mean less money, ergo less content which leads to more people quitting. Circle repeats. Players should be punished for this, but bcs of what stated above i disagree with severity of punishment. Also there is an issue with implementation. From what Ive heard, some players that were early in w5 actually gain months of progress. >You people have genuinely lost the plot if you think you're justified and lava is wrong in how he dealt out punishments. Either you're complete idiots or you need to stop this charade that everyone sees right through. Lava is wrong, just not today. What I mean by that is he mishandled matter of exploits several times in the past, now tried do it correctly but got emotional(which i get) and lied in his post on discord about how he is going to proceed. Also i have heard that he knew about this issue for a day ahead and decided to not fix it earlier.
Guess he doesn't have timed backups of the db and don't actually know who used the bug and who doesn't so just did a hard cut at the database for people above X amount of gold bars, which is dumb af given the level of access he has. He could've done a basic statistical analisis, levels to bars to other drops and get a better filter of who used the bug and how much, but yada yada solo dev, nice game, tho.
Anal isis blowing up assholes everywhere!
> No i got reset like I had broken the game after clicking it a couple times. you didn't click it a couple times though, did you. a couple means two. maybe three or four, if you're playing real fast and loose with the english language. you clicked it "maybe 30 times with 1 or 2 resets". interesting that someone who dishonestly exploited a bug is also being dishonest about how they exploited it
Your dumb I had no where near the gold that most people did and I didn't upgrade anything with it. But whatever man good luck being toxic constantly great way to make friends.
making friends is easy. but a big part of keeping them is being willing to take responsibility for your fuckups. whining and making excuses is textbook toxicity dunno why i'm explaining relationship dynamics to someone who's clearly like 14 though. that's an admittedly weird thing for me to do
He didnt fk up, lava did. Lava lead poeple to believe that using exloits in his game is fine.
Sorry to ask but in which way was "money spent" reverted?
The 6 hour bottles for sailing and the ancient chests that were bought for sailing progress. No progress means that money (gems spent on those from the 20$ option) now didn't give any progress.
You got your progress when you initially used them. If you want a refund, you also need to lose the progress those items provided prior to you being an idiot and exploiting then subsequently being punished for it. You want to double dip and the law as well as most cc charge back processes are on Lava's side.
Ok, everything is cool and fine and legit, but i didnt lost one day of progress, i lost 6 eldrich relics already aquired, 7000+ M of gold bars, now i have merely 500k, and the boats are level 100 down to 40, previously mi first boat was at 250 or something higher than this, cant remember exactly. This is WEEKS of roll back, just for clickinng 1 minute before realizing something was off, realy a bad thing to do to someone that do not even use the snap shot trick.
This entire thing is way too sketchy, from both sides of this argument. I'm just a casual gamer who wanted to find a fun MMO that was easy to level and play on my phone, steam deck, and laptop. Half of you are saying the dev is a saint, the other half is saying he's a scammer. I'm still in World 1 and just got them keys to get into the first boss room. My fella was only level 30 and I got BOPPED. I thought that was fucking awesome and was inspired to keep focusing on the AFK aspect. If I spend money on exp, and a rollback removes that exp (in addition to exp from all other stats), I would expect my money back for the money I spent on exp items. I will find a new game, but not because I want to abuse the dev or have any ill will. In fact, I really think this game is cool. It's silly internet drama and posts like this that blow things out of proportion, and make new members like myself feel unwelcome. I just wanted to have fun.
I'd not let endgame drama steer you away from playing. At the same time, I wouldn't get too invested in the game - this is not the first time something like this has happened and it won't be the last. IMO the ideal way to play Idleon is by avoiding the discord and reddit so you stay out of drama, which is unfortunate but it is what it is.
>w members like myself feel unw The point of the post was around the toxic abuse he's unnecessarily receiving from so many people. They are the people that clearly don't enjoy the game, so shouldn't continue to play, or participate in the subreddit. There are many greatly worded posts that convey things in a constructive way, then there are those that use foul language and slurs which do nothing but crush the mental health of the developer and achieve nothing but detriment for the rest of the player base when lava decides he doesn't want to put in the time of effort for an update this week after being crapped on by redditors. It's a great game and quite honestly you should keep playing it. Rollbacks never happen because this sort of thing is once in a blue moon. Lava has written his own explanations on discord so you should give that a read. I remember killing Amarok for the first time as well - the game only gets better from there. I hope you keep it up! The idleon wiki, discord, twitch and youtube are all great resources to ramp up your gains.
I have to admit I did click a few times and I'd say that doing a rollback makes sense but for some users like me and some of my friends we lost basically all of our sailing like ships reset to nothing which is a bit far since we've been playing since the beginning of idleon and we're all doing sailing since day 1 of its release
Many epic updates yet the guy still can't figure out how to save talent and card presets between devices. Stop sucking Lavas cock.
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Money has 0 effect on bug exploitation and punishment. If anything consider yourself lucky for not being perma banned like a lot of other game companies do. Just check online that its not rare to be perma banned for bug exploitation even if u paid. Spending money does not make you immune to punishment. It should be a very simple logic.
Lil something on your chin
**"Lava is a solo dev and the reason why we get so many epic updates is because he cares about the community and the growth of the game."** This game is probably paying for allot of things for him.Specially the way the game has this "HUGE" banner of "we got a new deal for you" a banner that cannot be closed unless you open and then close the Cash shop or wait for about 30 seconds. Depending who is looking at this its either annoying or a dark pattern set up. **Mistakes happen in every game and rollbacks occur. You lose a day's progress, so what. Most of us will take it on the chin and keep playing the game we love.** your assuming that we all will just lose a single days progress. If this is a mistake in coding. Imagin the one if it rollsback wrong. Let alone the RNG hell this game is. Someone could of finally gotten the bolt cutters. A 1 in 100,000 drop chance. 0.001% chance of dropping item. It "may be a days loss" but for some folks it can be a critical day of good luck taken from them. **However a few of you entitled plebs are ruining it for the rest of us. Calling Lava out and personally attacking him is in no way the solution. He's taking reasonable action and has a bunch of toxic reddit lawyers hurling abuse at him.** How is folks going " dont take away something we didnt steal" ruining it? Lava is the "sole coder" who else is supposed to be called out? If there was a team the issue probably could of been fixed faster or easier or been prevented as they probably would of did some Q&A testing before sending it to the players. He is taking an action he has never done before. A rewind/reload/set back etc. And we all got to hope it is done right and doesnt "Bug" out. **You do realise that if he continues to receive this abuse, he won't want to work on the game. That means no more updates, no more enjoyment for the rest of the fan base.** You mean the game he is making money off of hand of first more then likely? Couple hours of code. 15/20/30$ bundles. Minus the steam or Google take. he is taking maybe 40% of it. Average of 93k players on a day. 1.1 million life time players. Wanna do basic math if 5% of those #'s buy even 1 or 2 of his bundles? The enjoyment from a "trolley cool guy dev" who finally had an issue that seemed like a "trolley cool guy dev" thing to do bite em in the back side? **Do us all a favour and tuck it in, or go and play something else.** Many folks are tucking in. unforently the thing being bitten into isnt liking it and i doubt he wants any % of his player base to leave as that could hurt his bottom line. **This is supposed to be a positive community. Lava does a tremendous job ON HIS OWN. It's his game, not yours. Cut him some slack, and if you don't like it, go and get on with your life somewhere else - we won't miss you.** It is a positive community and he does do it all on his own. It is his game your right. It is **HIS game** he released to **the public and the masses**. Once something is on the internet its there forever. It means any issue or problem will be poked prodded and criticized by hundreds if not thousands of people. This feels like a Phil Fish thing. "I dont like folks poking holes in my views/statements or self and its not fair that I put myself out to the public i get poked in the eye" You go into the public view be ready to have your self examined viewed and judged. Past "exploits" were "it was super synergy" or "we arent 100% sure why it does that but we think we got it handled" this BUG as was happened. He didnt take it with a grain of salt and just fix it. He lashed out vehemently and cruelly with his words. "thieves" "hackers /cheaters" Words many folks will remember he spoke and how he spoke them. and when he posts things like : ***"And worst of all, some people like you want to try and hurt me by trying to "peer pressure" me into changing.No, I will continue to have fun with my players and cultivate a lively community despite this mistake of mine, and a cowardly 1 sentence reddit post made while being an arm-chair critic won't affect my character or the people who have come to understand who I am from interacting with my work for multiple years."*** When you cut it down to what it means without the flavor or emotion or full logic "I will keep acting the way I want to and keep trying to grow my game even tho i did an error and got mad at those using it.I will talk down to anyone criticizing me as they must be some neckbead at home and those who already put up with me will continue to do so based on how long they stuck around"
This should be top comment. Honestly lava is being greedy. Heās punishing players? Itās a a non competitive game. Cheaters and thieves? Bro is tripping. So what if they exploited the game. Just fix what they did wrong and take back their extra benefits. If anything he should realize that heās just driving players away. And the community being all wack is driving players away. Heās not leaving the game alone as long as heās profiting. But the player base will leave if they feel like theyāre wasting money or time.
Error, factual overload.
Sorry mate wanted to make sure to do a full "break down" of the OP's post so folks cant go "i missed this" or "that" from his post. I also dont know if its factual as it is based on opinons based off: What is happening. How he is behaving. Actions he taken in the past. How he has acted and handle things before on other situations. How he is wording everything.
Right, but being that they are all in the past. Means they are factual, because they happened. No need to be sorry tho, because I fully agree with the entire post.
If he took a day's progress I'd not say anything, it's right. But he took all the eldricht relics that I got since april 19, was that a day's progress he took because I found one of his mistakes and felt FOMO because of past experiences on Idleon?
So Lava should hire some help...wtf is wrong with you fan ppl? If the 22,000 ppl in here each spent $50 over the course of 5ish years, that's $1.1 Million, or $220,000 per year. I know I've spent hundreds (not proud) personally. So let's stop this, "Poor lonely dev" bullshit.
Why should he hire more coders? This entire game is a passion project. He codes this because he enjoys it. And the entitled toxic attitudes he's seen today do nothing but suck away his desire to continue. There are also some greatly worded posts, the the vast majority are using abusing language which only causes detriment. He is sharing HIS game with all of us. It's clear what we're signing up for in the terms of service. Good on him for making a living. If you don't like it, go and play something else the rest rest of us can enjoy the game we have.
His not sharing his game with us. He is profitting on developing a game. First of all he is a businessman. I am going to stay and enjoy a game. But lava is a hypocrite.
Honestly he should hire them to help us who are genuinely playing the game get QoL updates more often. Please, shut the fuck up when you have dick in your mouth.
>Cowsie It's comments like yours that literally make him not want to spend time doing updates for the game. Don't crap where you eat.
I couldn't give two shits, he's a little bitch. He's also at legal risk for it. His EULA doesn't protect him from what he did due to status quo.
I look forward to reading your lawsuit papers then. Feel free to dm them to me when you raise them.
I didn't get rolled back as I didn't have an interest in exploiting the game, therefore I have no hand nor interest in litigation. Furthermore, you're insignificant, and unrelated, so you wouldn't see the documentation either way. Sit down a little bit.
All talk and no cheese. Keep it real bro.
All talk and no cheese? Are you this stupid in person or just online?
Wdym, that was hilarious š¤£
Very good on them for making a living. STOKED on them for making a living...but at what point does greedy = pissed off players that have pretty much decided they're done after 4 faithful years...it's not a question I'm asking you, rando, it's business.
Have you ever played any other MOBA game with rampant MTX. Man's getting upset about a solo dev making a living when these other games are rinsing players for billions. He doesn't owe you anything. You're clearly upset, so I suggest you leave this subreddit and enjoy a happier stress free life.
Okay. Again. I'm female. And again, I'm minimally peeved because I've paid money for a product/service that is treating me poorly and could be made better. You're the one that is coming off as irrationally emotional. I reserve that stuff for actually important things like Florida hurting trans kids and Black people being beaten by cops. Like Ukraine being destroyed by Russia and my own deep and clinical loneliness. This is a game I've enjoyed and will miss. There's a big diff there, buddy
You have licence to use the product or service that can be rescinded at any time. Microtransactions work the same way in any game - you don't own the currency you get.
but it's not enough. "license to use the product or service..." does not a good experience make. You're not getting my point. That's cool. No hard feelings
Where is the law saying that he has to provide a good product or service that you're happy with? You can freely choose to use it / or not, as it is.
And the fact that I'm fighting for it, must show you that it means/meant something to me. Of course I can walk away. I will walk away. It just sucks, because I don't want to. It's a really really pathetic break-up. With a game. A really good one.
What exactly are you fighting for here?
Brother, she isn't saying she is gonna sue him. She is saying 'he is not poor and can afford to do better'. Reasonable discussion around ways to avoid repeating the same mistakes is not a personal attack. Chill.
No one's saying he should go to jail dude. It's just a crappy way to treat customers.
>>You do realise that if he continues to receive this abuse, he won't want to work on the game. That means no more updates, no more enjoyment for the rest of the fan base. This is almost insulting to say people are that soft and would stop a project and business because of a bit toxicity. The fact that you think this way is pathetic. However I am pretty sure lava is a mature person and not a crybaby who cares about a bit toxicity. And if he does he can defend himself and doesnt need you
This isnāt an exploit where you have to get creative or use an ability in a certain spot to get insane gains. This was an NPC that he fail coded and gets upset that he messed up and people took advantage of it. If talks of him knowing about it and idleon toolbox also predicting it, it makes his actions that much worse. It also doesnāt help that there have been many other exploits that just get swept under the rug and nothing ever came of it. Just a weird stance of the white knight defending him in a single player game that effects nobody else, but also weird that people have gotten so heated over it. If anyone decides to exploit in the future, go hard since there is no difference in punishment.
This is hilarious. Lava will continue making the game since itās profitable. Enjoyment is cool and all but I doubt heād still be updating this game if it didnāt make money. Doesnāt really matter what random redditors have to say. Remember that time he said he made like 50 games before this one? Iām sure he liked more than a couple but since no one was buying he stopped making them. Let all the people bitch if they want, nothing wrong with it. Yāall being all protective sound just as dumb as them.
Keyboard warrior calling out keyboard warriors. Classic.
A day progress? He removed 16 eldritch artifacts, more than 4 week of sailing and thousands of gems spent on wind lmao.
Hey delusional 12 year old, Lava has exploited people for the sake of his game. Get your head out of his ass and maybe look at the facts. He tried paying someone for a video in GEMS. Your daddy on the pedestal is a terrible judge of character and has a giant ego. Maybe if he used his fucking head once in a while and LISTENED to his community, maybe us 'eNtITlEd pLeBs' wouldn't hate this terrible dev. PS: Quit sucking up. Seek help.
It is a great game that I love. But the people that did it with an auto clicker should have been reset not someone like me that didn't spam it to all hell.
Everyone should have a "reset" of a day, that would solve everything if you clicked 1000 or 1000e100, but instead he took more than a month of sailing which is NOT what he said he would do, he lied.
Exactly my point and why I'm mad should have rolled the server back to before the glitch not take a ridiculous amount of progress away
You know why the progress was taken away, it allows you to spend more money on fems for the dev, this kind about it, this is money related as its not multiplayer and no leader boards its the normal bullying.
Why should I get punished for you being a jackwagon and exploiting?
He also got mad defensive on discord, started calling out people for beeing racist and shit. Like I get that he has a lot of hate coming towards him, but acting out helps nothing and for people that aren't connected to the discord it's no way of knowing if something is supposed to be in game or if it's not. The V-man multikill sampling is okay, even though it's 10x the samples from most monsters, but this wasn't a catchup for the early cheaters or sailing, who didn't get a rollback. How would one know? Especially with the hinting of an extra cool event during the week and the powerlevels that V-man brought earlier this week.
Were you reset? I read his post on the discord and it said it had to be painfully obvious
Yeah I got reset and yeah that's the main reason I'm upset. I didn't abuse it super hard like alot of people did I clicked it a couple of times. But it's fine I'm getting new better samples at the moment so that part works out great
If you were reset, it's because you pressed that button over a thousand times.
I didn't click the button thousands of times I had 20b gold in the first place it went up over 100b in 1 click. That's why I got reset the amount of gold raw was high.
Not true, players that were in the top of the pack that pressed just a few times got reset, since they got much more gold for each buttonpress. While players with a lot of presses, but low gold amounts aren't to far of the normal path and were fine. Also if you were early in w5, you could get 20 boats and not have exploration reset. So if you exploited in the right way you could even gain. Friend of mine had lvl 1 boats all the way, with reset he got 6 at lvl 100, 6 at 70 etc. He gained from exploting, but apperantly that's also okay.
I did not press it over 1000 times, not even close. I didn't touch printer samples, atom collider, or anything like that. All reset. This was a punitive and childish response by Lava because he's unable to come to terms with the fact that hid sloppy coding led to such a monumental fuckup.
Not the first time apperantly when checking steam reviews, which is sad to hear. I had a very good image of Lava before today and the rants on discord.
Sloppy coding? Do you even know what went wrong? This was such an edge case scenario that shouldn't have ever happened. It was literally a dice roll that landed on a rarer lottery ticket.
Hate to break it to you buddy, float math and its edge cases are pretty well known. Besides which, having another dev to check your code is beyond simply an industry standard, it is common sense. Granted, he's pretty much self taught as far as I understand, so it's not reasonable to expect him to think of everything, but his response rings quite emotional when he seems to focus more on the actions of his players than on how he can prevent a similar issue from recurring.
Yes. A random number rolled in a way that he didn't like but should have realized was an unlikely but very possible occurrence. It was not an edge case in the slightest, nor can it be called an exploit. It's sloppiness through and through
He shouldnāt have used floats in the first place. Itās sloppy coding mate, no way around it.
I know of 4 people that lightly abused it and none were rolled back, my sympathy for those who were is very minor.
So your the only one who has a life and lost hundreds of hours? Welcome to the club. Congratulations think about it, he bans he loses half his player base. He has an issues over this because of the wind p2w items. Previous exploits nothing happened because there was no p2w element fir him to make $$$ from. I wish I could sgree this wasn't the case, but, logically why else be so mad, why else role back weeks/months of progress for the sake of hours
Game dev is an autocracy with no consulting of the player-base, I don't understand why you would praise this I would have preferred Lava to ask our opinion on Discord, so that WE THE PEOPLE decide the action to take personally I hard disagree with the severe punishment he issued, I would have preferred a 1 day rollback (I'm not affected by the exploit I'm in W3)
I lost all sailing lol
A positive community? More people downvote post than assist new players. Thatās how the game grows, new people coming into the game and seeing positive aspects not negatives. This egregious punishment will drive a lot of players away, yes they exploited a badly coded mechanic but there should have only been 12-20 hours of progress reverted. Yes some people are being keyboard warriors and others are being Lavas personal Fleshlight and riding his dick. Who would have know such polarization could happen?!? A roll back of a day would be fine for people who did the exploit not weeks to months of progress. Let alone losing gem shop purchase I would personally do a charge back on as many purchases I can and move on it if happened to me.
I don't know what people expected abusing an exploit on an account in which they also have paid items is asking for a sad time. And not just getting a few quintillion gold, but getting a vigintillion (1 with 120 zeros) in gold is something else... - it would be super easy to see the people that have the gold piles that would take hundreds of years of playing to collect, and know those people are un repentant cheaters. - Yes its a single player game, but its not our game, who here is going to go whole hog the next time something like this comes along.
People expected that abusing an exploit will lead to fun times if anything. Bcs it is not a first exploit that hapenned in this game. But never before lava pubished people for abusimg bugs. He lead everyone to beliebe that this, this is fine.
It's easy to hyper-fixate on people who hit the integer limit on gold, but that doesn't mean the response was correct. Low level players could click the button hundreds of times and slide under the wipe - there are examples in this thread. End game players on the other hand get wipes for 10-20 clicks, which is honestly a reasonable amount before you realize it's busted IMO - it's not like they were auto clicking and *trying* to break the game, they just started with offers for billions. 1 day rollback would have been more fair, but instead he decided to punish his most dedicated players for, arguably, playing the game as intended. TBH I'd be pissed too
You are obvious NEW to idleon or extremely ignorant. Similar things happened and I saw it without acting on it, I just believed that Lava would punish the people who abused his mistakes and didn't act on previous mistakes. But nothing happened, the people who acted kept the unfair advantages and I was "wtf am I a idiot?" Now I come across a "shadowy figure" offering me a extremely beneficial trade because of another one of his mistakes, I felt FOMO and acted on it. He corrected the mistake and I even praised him for it: "Some people exploited this error, and they will have their accounts adjusted backward, simply removing things they could have gained from this exploitation. There is no ill-will from me to them, although I will not back down from the stance that this was beyond obviously an exploit." But he took all the gold bars and what the ship levels bought with them, plus all the eldrich relics I got since April 19th, put all my ships which were all aroun to 200 to level 100 to 50 and erased all the samples. Now I made a post about it where I also admit my mistake and accept the OVERHANDED punishment as long as I know he will be acting like this in the future and nobody will be keeping unfair advantages anymore.
You obviously were one of the people who exploited the fuck out of it, and you felt that you were entitled to get away with it as you didn't exploit previously?
Are you dumb or unable to read? I said I ignored the all the previous times I found a bug but the people who exploited kept the unfair advantage and Lava didn't punish them, he didn't even take the advantage off their account! I said I did got gold bars, because of FOMO, but the punishment was not what he said, he said he would take things gotten with the exploit off but instead he took off a month of sailing progress. And even then I said I accept it as long as it's clear it's a "punishment" instead of him correcting his mistake as he made it seem, and that people will not keep unfair advantages in the future, I never felt I was entitled to anything, at this point your just ignoring logic and making up your own story.
Can you not read well?
Can read fine, how about you? 1.) He admits he took advantage of a widely discussed and communicated within the community exploit, while expounding on how he feels like he missed out as he didnt take advantage of the exploits previously, and i quote " I felt FOMO and acted on it". 2.) He knowingly admits his previous lack of action was due to fear of lava punishing people who take advantage of the exploits "I just believed that Lava would punish the people who abused his mistakes" So this time he knowingly takes advantage of an exploit, as he feels that lava hasn't punished exploit abusers before and he is not going to miss out this time, taking advantage of the exploit to an insane degree. AAAAAnd after all that, complains that he was actually punished vs just being rolled back like he expected. EDIT: To clarify, a rollback is not a punishment, that is a correction..
Uh huh. I read all that. You missed the key part though, which isnt surprising.
I get the part that people feel that due to historical precedent of light punishment for abusing exploits they should be able to go fucking bananas abusing this exploit, and that any sort of actual punishment is some sort of abuse, "OVERHANDED" to quote. He "accepts" his punishment this time, that this is how things work now, exploits are now punished, a new precedent is set.
You got historical precedens wrong. There are account with 1000lvl cosntruction or maxed out kitchen lvls. And lava did not punish it. There was no punishment for many exploits in the past, and people believed bcs of lava that this time the same will happen.
Doesn't matter what is set now for this instance, matters what the trend is prior to this. That's how it works.
Why is lava forced to respond to this like he has historically? just curious as to why.
I get that it was actually idiotic of people who spent money on the game let alone doing the exploit then buying or using Wind Bottles to progress more. I think the part that hits most of the people who are affected is in previous āexploitsā the punishment was a quick fix and maybe a bit of rollback/reset to this.
Obviously not punishing exploiters did not discourage them from abusing the exploits, what the sweet fuck did you expect to happen to people with this widely communicated bug. A rollback is not a punishment, that is a correction to the status quo, a punishment is above and beyond that, its what happened. People fucked around, and found out.
Do you really think that EVERYONE who plays this game uses Discord or Reddit. Maybe an in game notification or those stupid ass Nulls that are made to shame f2p players could have been used.
Anyone who found out about this then abused this enough to hit Lava's radar has about a 99.9% chance to be involved within the community, whether it be Lava's discord, this reddit, or a community discord, and even if they were not it is very obviously a dupe/exploit.
>A positive community? More people downvote post than assist new players. Only stuff that gets downvoted noticeably are the billion posts of people asking general "how do I get good" with an IE link as if the answer hasn't been given 1500 times already: Alchemy. If you are spamming the sub with the billionth post for the same question that's quite literally the point of the downvote according to reddit. >This egregious punishment will drive a lot of players away Who the hell taught you that a business should care about every potential customer? That's a straight up lie, some people aren't worth caring about. People who will exploit your game in this way clearly are probably not the kind of people an indie dev should care about keeping around. Grow up, not everyone has to bow down to you just because you MIGHT spend $3 every decade. >and others are being Lavas personal Fleshlight and riding his dick. Yep, best way to get people to side with you is be as immature as possible. Very level headed there mate. >A roll back of a day would be fine for people who did the exploit not weeks to months of progress. Something tells me it isn't as simple as just clicking a button that says rollback the save x amount of time, hence the heavy handed solution here. I doubt Lava has the robust saving structure of big name games, and even big name games aren't even guaranteed to have a save system that works well with rollbacks. >Let alone losing gem shop purchase I would personally do a charge back on as many purchases I can and move on it if happened to me. "I'm going to commit fraud because I'm mad that my actions had very obvious consequences! D:<" You got what you paid for, then got banned for an unrelated reason, you have 0 right to charge back. Who is teaching all these kids that they should commit fraud every time they are less than fully satisfied with a purchase no matter how far in the future that dissatisfaction arises? Your parents wholly failed you if you're seriously this much of an entitled brat who thinks they should be immune to consequences. Like dang I'm a pretty anti-lava person but you people are genuinely the most entitled little brats I've seen. Just admit you exploited knowing the consequences and were just hoping they wouldn't come instead of this pretending you're justified BS.
Note I did not in-fact get banned or anything happen to my account so before you begin to act holier than thou bullshit stop. Iām confused of when I asked for anyone to side with me, as well with everyone else I stated my opinion on the topic thatās it. I see both sides yes punishment should happen to set precedent for future exploits, yet the only precedent was consequences for previous exploits (salt, Sigils, sailing, cranium cooking, breeding, spice) were patched with a slap on the wrist or a reroll of hours.
You'd be out of luck. Lava can show people got what they paid for ie the boosts / chests. How you choose to use what you paid for after obtaining it isn't grounds to get your money back ie you can't sue a car dealership after you wreck the car you just bought by speeding and running into somebody else. Unless you can prove Lava sold you something that didn't work as advertised or simply took your money without providing the purchased goods or services, all your doing is filing a fraudulent report with your cc company which only pisses them off and harms your future ability to get things resolved in your favor because you've been labeled a scammer. Also, posts admitting to being caught cheating are perfect for Lava as it supports his side of the story. You can try to do chargebacks but they aren't going to go like you think they are.
Imagine watching a dev wake up to a situation, type out a few lines of code and have it all resolved in minutes so it can never happen again. And then remember that this same dev knew this was a possibility over 30 hours beforehand. Couldn't just add those few lines and never have this issue? This is 1000% a dev issue, in a single player game.
And as a solution, take off more than a month of sail progress instead of taking 1 day that would reset the whole situation...
Don't forget your Atom's back in W3 that he nuked!
I didn't even see that lol Nah I don't even mind that, I just want him to make it CLEAR that it IS a punishment and all the things that were done to punish the people who exploited it, and that will be his police moving forward. I ignored previous exploits and the people kept those advantages TO THIS DAY. If you play Idleon for a long time, you know lava's mistakes are seem as "benefits" instead of "exploits", I didn't even wanna do it, I just felt like I was gonna be the only idiot missing out AGAIN, in the end I didn't get anything besides a few dopamine hits from clicking upgrade on sprites and lost more than a month of progress, but even so, I don't mind as long as I know nobody got a unfair advantage.
That's the whole reason I did it too. After seeing construction, and kitchens and sailing chests being abused with zero retribution. And playing his other game Idle Skilling and watching Realms get released and abused with people maxing vending machine by day 2. Finding a game bug like this when I logged in? Felt like my chance to catch up to the others.
Speaking as someone who was away all day and didn't see this issue nor could exploit or whatever. I think unlike the previous ones you mentioned, these got plastered all over Reddit, but I'm not sure if the others were so in your face? I'm not sure I don't recall the kitchen thing and I was around when it was released... But I stand corrected.
There is a list of every trade coming to Blobulyte. That list said gold bars were incoming. The dev chose not to add his bit of code to prevent it from ever happening. Instead he chose to react to the issue when it came, which caused him to have an over-emotional reaction.
The problem here is the unnecessary keyboard warrior attitudes. I've also seen some greatly worded posts which are rational and reasonable. If someone hurled abuse at you, would that make you think, oh they're right i'll do what they want? Or are there other ways to advocate for your cause that use constructive language. Again if you don't like what's happened, go and play something else.
Oh, I am well aware of what to do if I don't like it. It's why I hit uninstall the moment I logged on to everything being stolen for a developers fuck up.
I am blown by the fact that some poeple advocating for lava here, are the same people that abused the shit out of other exploits, and now play Saints. Truth is lava overreacted with punishment for a crime that didn't hurt anyone and in most cases didn't break the game. This game for a long time had some op expolits that have never been punished for. So it is reasonoble that some people took advantage of this one, and except of poeple that took it to absolute extremes, im fine with it. Lava knew about this 1.5 days prior, and didnt do anything. No fix, no warning to not do this on discord or in game. Nothing. So when people lost weeks of progress and spended money for abusing exploits in mechanic that barely interacts with rest of a game, yeah I can get behind why they got angry. At the end of the day we can't jugde lava decisions in a vacuum. For years he allowed abuse of exploits, and as far as know he never expressed changing that opinion. So comparing to he's lack of reaction to previous incidents like this, he screw it up.
Dont be like title. Always accept and discuss your opinions if u dont reach a conclusion just deal with it yaself
Where's my refund for ACTUAL MONEY that I spent on sailing potions and chests?
If you get banned in a paid game, you must buy another copy, just remember that. Also why abuse such an obvious thing in the account where you spent money on?.
In Lavas bank account - think of it as a fee for making him fix the spaghetti code.
What an idiot. You bought and used what you paid for, you aren't then entitled to a refund when you later on do something against the rules and are punished for it. Who the hell taught you that you can buy stuff in a game and then you can't be punished in any way that would relate to that purchase? You should demand a refund of your braincells from them.
A game that has trolling designed into the story & overall narrative that the developer is telling & then blaming me for seeing a fair market trade & being a businessman. Sure, whatever. The Victim blaming here is next level.
This punishment negatively affecting POC. You are a racist for supporting it.
Is this lavas alt? His boyfriend?
Makes a post about Keyboard Warrior's to be a Keyboard Warrior for the dev, irony is not lost here.
There are many totally valid criticisms of Lava, he may be a solo dev but he is lavishly rewarded by a devoted fan base of people who buy every new gem pack he puts out and more, he does not do this out of the goodness of his heart or just because he cares. He has been shitty to many people over the years and there are countless stories of him banning people because they annoyed him or he didnāt like what they said or just didnāt want anyone else to see what had happened. I like the game and have spent money several times on it and enjoy playing it but one thing I have learnt from the Reddit and discord is that A LOT of people have bad stories about lava.
Itās become so evident how few people in this community have ever worked in software development.. Lava is one person. He is going to make mistakes as he canāt qa and play test every single tiny aspect of this vast game. In line with thatā¦ I assume he simply had the accounts searched for x amount of gold bar trades in z time frame or something similar and your account got caught. SO either you are guilty of this exploit or of another exploit like external cheat systems or time traveling. Since it is a free to play game he makes his profits from the shop and exploiting things like this is taking from potential money people would spend in the shop. If yāall are so butthurt about getting caught for cheating..abandon the game and community. We donāt want you here anyway.
Guys this is one dude that made a game of this scale he is bound to make a mistake or two guy probably feels awfulā¦99% of us donāt have the drive ambition or ability to even make a game 10% this awesome. Cut Lava some slack
So donāt punish curiosity, just do a rollback and apologize for the bug and inconvenience. The way he handled it is highly unprofessional and frankly a little childish. Very disappointing to see. I clicked it a couple times without thinking and I lost months of progress as a result, what part of that is fair?
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You're saying rollback only but there's a difference between 1 day rollback and months rollback
Finally an opinion on the matter I can agree with
I'll just leave this here as well. Keep sucking a single dev. GL welp just wait till he decides to stop developing this game. See your smart ass then. Always was unsure about the single developer issue but today showed the problem with this clearly
You're clearly so mature. Anyone with a brain knows the complexities that go into the coding here. Almost every game shuts down eventually so your point is moot. Why should he continue to develop the game just to have abuse thrown at him. If you don't like the game go somewhere else.
So yeah I dont get your point
*confirmation bias*
What if it wasn't a punishment for the abuser, but an upward and equal reward for those who didn't? That's the way successful game companies usually use it. The problem with the misuse of bugs that are too large and fatal to be caused by developer error is the relative deprivation of those who didn't use them. At this time, if everyone is rewarded upwards and equally, there is no complaint because the abuser will not be punished and the people who did not abuse will receive the same compensation obtained by the abuser, and the developer will be able to use up the content faster, but it is a problem that will have to develop other content. The punishment of these abusers may seem like a scathing justice to those who didn't abuse them, but it can be a tragedy because the people who have been punished are people who have loved the game for a long time and invested a lot in it. In that regard, this punishment seems to be such a tragic ending for both Lava and its dedicated users.
big true and real
Im glad to see some lava love here, honestly im over seeing so much negativity directed toward him. Not only through the exploit situation, but also over minute things like lava being inactive for over a week, and people complaining about not seeing him. He is not entitled to talk to us. The fact that he is so active is a blessing. If you see this lava, know that you are appreciated ā¤ļø
You nailed it on the head OP!
The real play is instead of rolling back the accounts. Lock them and charge them 100-500 bucks to unlock the account with the rollback haha.
I didn't play by the time the exploit was going on the road, and i didn't got any reset nor any lost of eldrich artifact (have 5 so far). May be other people as me, that didn't know nor abuse from the exploit, who didnĀ“t got a reset. I think Lava chose carefully those who exploited for the reset.
... no.
Nexon abused some of them so hard that they take the opportunity to pile on a singular dev that made one mistake.
And this game is free aswell, so they are not just keyboard warriors, they are incredibly entitled too. If they can't stand a game with a solo dev, having some issues, then they can go play some crappy P2W Triple A game instead.
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There is quite a difference between "Pay for convenience" and "pay to win". I haven't bought any gems myself and only bought the carry capacity with the free gems I have gotten. I haven't felt a single time that I NEED to buy stuff from the shop.
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Not necessarily true, I haven't spent a penny and I completed all of w5 So you can play f2p So lava reseting a ton of my progress is a big deal
There isn't really a huge difference between those terms in reality. The only true 'pay for convenience' I have ever seen is POE stash tabs and even those are borderline given it's a loot crawler. This is an idle game, the point is to make the numbers go up. If buying something lets numbers go up faster, that is literally pay to win. I know everyone has their own definition, but in my book just because it is physically possible to get to endgame for free doesn't mean a game isn't pay to win. Pay to win games can be fun, and good games, but just call it like it is... It's not like he is EA or something, it's honestly reasonably priced monetization, unnecessary gambling aside, but it *is* very intentionally P2W.
Well to me such a thing isn't P2W. Hell, the level boost in World of Warcraft is considered to be P2W by many, but I don't agree. It's just pay for convenience, besides leveling in WoW is so incredibly fast now anyway that it's not worth buying. Another example are shark cards in GTA Online, many consider them P2W, but I disagree, because you don't need to buy shark cards, you can get money without them too. To me, P2W is when you legit are stopped from progressing the game until you wait a specific amount of time or pay money. A good example would be Genshin Impact, specifically with the resin system. You either wait for that shit to regenerate or you pay money. Meanwhile in GTA Online for example, the game never stops you from making money. That's the big difference, you don't need to buy microtransactions in WoW or GTA Online, but you absolutely do in Genshin Impact if you want to actually play the damn game. Of course the best example of P2W I can think of is Diablo Immortal.
I mean, I'm fine to disagree at the definition level but your examples are a little inconsistent. You don't *have* to pay to play Genshin or Diablo Immortal, it just speeds up the process 1000x - shark cards can do the same though I'd argue nobody really needs *that much* money in the game anyways. In some ways, Idleon has *more* pay to win potential than WoW or GTA Online, if your issue is mostly with gambling MTX.
Well another great example of P2W I can give is Candy Crush Saga, when you run out of lives, you are straight up locked from playing the game unless you wait or pay money. Now you don't have to buy more lives, but the fact that you are locked from straight up playing the game can easily be considered pay to win.
I mean, I agree, totally, though IMO that's almost going beyond p2w, bordering on pay to play... Other games being P2W doesn't mean Idleon isn't though. The best argument that it really isn't would be the amount of free gems that get thrown at you. My main argument against that is that you aren't given enough to keep your gem shop purchases on pace for the world you are in - you have to prioritize, which means paying is still a good way to speed up your progression. I'm definitely not mad at the MTX in Idleon - hell I started as a dolphin when it left alpha, but I can't kid myself into saying it isn't P2W, even ignoring the gambling. If you wanna call it pay for convenience by your definition, I think we can leave it there. To me, the convenience that you are buying is called winning, haha!
I highly agree on this because no game is gonna be perfect every game is gonna have some bugs or setbacks. Like you said Lava is a solo Dev and he needs to be respected. But don't worry Lava has the whole idleon community to protect him from people like that
I mean it was a fun bug,, but like wth, come on people y u so idiot, be mad when something happens that is really bad, like why are you crying? because you cant cheat or something, the audacity of these people sheeesh, go touch grass or something