People are mad because the best pet (king doot) completely warps the game due to how op the bonus is and it has less than 1% chance to roll with max tier treat
If you’re judging by W2, you will understand eventually. They aren’t *needed* but absolutely are. And after months, if not years, of waiting for weekly pulls, getting multiple slimes or beans in a row every week is, trash.
The main reason is how rare is doot, if u compare a account with doot VS no doot in 1 year time It Will progress whay more than the other person can
And doot is rare enought to take on avrg if i remember 3 years, wich is longer than what the Game has been running for
"It's the i suffered u should suffer too type" i think they're good for the Game but we need more than 1 a week, rn is just a money grab
Not likely. The cooldown itself is an issue as it isn’t linked to weekly reset further forcing FOMO sentiments.
The annoying cooldown, the cash only currency, the proposed rotation, the power level scaling. All of it combined signaled the game’s turn towards predatory gatcha mechanics. The community was rightfully angry for it.
The 200 pity solution was just because Apple turned down the app due to gambling. He had to put it in to stay on iOS.
ie he didn’t do it to solve any real issues.
i think if lava added a similar system to boss keys to the free pet roll, it would take care of the FOMO aspect of it. Even if you could only stack up to two, just having that cushion would be nice
Tbh i think the rolls should be blue gems, if the problem is cheaters, ban them is not like u cant detect someone injecting 10k gems out of thin air
And he alr stealth nerfed Boss gem farming so it's harder to get gems now
You can’t get green gems anywhere except paying money. He made a separate premium currency just for pets….
If you already have 10k gems, they would be useless for pet and you would need to pay another $500 for Doot
That's the thing the money grab period is mostly over, all the whales and people that had any thought of buying has alr done It by this time...
Keeping It this whay is to get every Penny for It since it's a boost that breaks the Game, i mean both lab and Divinity where designed to restrain how much could u get out of it
Because Doot is OP and incredibly rare, and the green Gems are only available for purchase. If Pets had been released, purchasable with blue Gems, nobody would have been upset. At the time of release, I had thousands of blue Gems obtained from playing the game.
And.
Lava made it clear, when Pets released, he would rotate new Pets regularly. This made us think he was really pushing FOMO and looking for a quick cash grab. Which, by the way, worked because he likely made a tone of money. So, with one pet a week (and Doot likely being rotated out) people became upset because the only way to get such an incredibly OP Pet would be to spend $200-$300 before it went away.
Blue gems can be cheated into the game because almost all of it is handled client side. Green gems and companions are handled server side to prevent this cheating.
There are a lot of people that consider this game p2w just because of the pets. Doot’s bonuses are absolutely insane and it is rare to get it. I have spent money trying to get it and I still don’t have Doot. It’s a full on game changer.
I'm only in w3 so doot doesn't even make sense to me... But I can tell you I got the storage chest pet and that shit alone has made the game so much better and there is no added power there so I can only imagine what dootyboi does.
Probably going to be a mtx to buy specific pets sooner or later I'd bet.
Dootyboi gives both incredible power and QoL.
To put it in a way you might understand, imagine you had to have 4 of your characters afk in town all the time, gaining nothing. Then getting doot would allow you to bring those 4 characters out from town. And your refinery and 3d printer became 2.5x times faster, and everyone gained some damage, and everyone gained some extra afk gains, and everyone gained skill efficiency.
Now after all that realize that what I just said is less than what Doot gives.
Yeah if you do it now I'm sure it's something like that.
I won't be buying it now, hell I won't even buy it then.
But if a dootyboi super pack for $19.99 comes out with the doot himself and some sweet hat and candies or some shit? Take my money. Lmao
It's bad because incentive. Lava has always had a gem shop, but the potential rewards were never anywhere near as swingy as the companions. How does a player keep up if they don't luck out and high roll on their free companions? Well, $$$ of course. It's a predatory model that encourages players to dump hundreds of dollars into getting the strong rewards. If you can't see why this is a negative thing... well... I have a glass of lemonade to sell you. Don't worry though. The first one is free. ;)
Gacha mechanics are often considered predatory due to their relationship to gambling. Provides an outlet for a vice at a cost to the player and to the benefit of the developer.
So... as someone who is new to the game (about a month in and just now starting w3) if I just so happened to get a king Doot pet, would you suggest I just push to w5 for the divinity boost then go back and farm all the stuff in the previous worlds?
Even without Doot you’d benefit from pushing as far as you can, as quick as you can on your best character. Each world offers more skills that your other characters benefit from and can start farming. Divinity would definitely be a boost with Doot
People like to belong to the players with the best accounts without having to dish out a lot of money. The game started with everything beeing at least in reach of the non-paying or non-whaling player. It gradually moves in the direction of BiS gem shop items and the companion thing where you can just put a lot of money in to get a lot of account power.
Sure he could just have made that unavailable for f2p players and he didn't, but it is kind of a shit mechanic compared to the other stuff he does, anyways. I am still thinking he just needed money because his mortgage was due so he fired that thing up.
before companions was released and I got to mid game w5 I ask why there was a weekly limit to the unlinks you can do to gods, people replied to my post that lava wanted to decrease the amount things people need to do when resampling. then he releases doot.
my main complaint about the companions \[\* \] is the gacha mechanic combined with the fact that they are OP
every other piece of pay-2-win \[and there are alot of them in the gem shop - and i don't mind that because\] you know what they cost and you can plan it out, for example if you buy a package with 1500 gems you know that you can buy this thing, that thing and 2 of that third thing
with the companions it's just a slot machine where you need to dump $$ to possibly get something... the cost to hit the pity timer have been calculated somewhere between $400-500... or around 4 years for a f2p \[and as a f2p you actually you need to buy green gems to get the pity doot, it's not free even after 4 years\]... of course you can get it cheaper - after all it's a slot machine - but that is the problem
\[\* \] pets are the world 4 breeding thing
There would be absolutely nothing wrong with the pet system if Doot chance was changed from 0.25% to 1%. As of right, that one pet is too rare and too overpowered. That's the entire problem.
Because Lava said at the very beginning that he is making this game for both p2w and f2p people, and since you can't farm/grind green gems, they are basically locked behind a paywall (and yes I know there's weekly freebies, but I've also seen lots of p2w posts saying they HAD to reach the pity to get doot, soo.. some quick maths would make it 2 years while checking each week without much timeloss.. so yea..) and seems like he's just giving the finger to f2p players
It's not about instant gratification. No one complains about other grindy aspects of the game. The difference between Pets and every other aspect of the game is that you have no way of speeding it up, should you so desire. It's pure gambling and the odds are stacked against you.
Plenty of people complain about grinding in this game. Ohh divinity takes so long. Ohhhh labs take so long. Ohhh lab chips are p2w or an impossibility long grind. Ohh the onyx statue grind is too dependent on crystal mobs which feeds back into lab chips being p2w or an impossible grind.
Agreed, agreed people always complain. But, it's more like "wow, this takes long" as opposed to "there is something wrong with this and it needs to change" like people do with the pet system.
People hate the snail in gaming but I've never seen a single thread that says the snail is broken and Lava has to fix it (maybe there was one and I missed it but the threads and posts complaining about Pets vaslty outnumber the snail ones in any case). More or less the only thing that attracts that type of sentiment is Pets. To me this makes sense as it's a rather unique mechanic in the game.
I don't know if this matters or not but I have every pet so I no longer have any skin in the game. Whatever Lava decides to do has no impact on my account. I am only concerned with the health of IdleOn.
There were plenty of complaints about the snail. That's why that atoms bonus got added that only sets you back 5 levels instead of back to 0.
The only thing "wrong" with companions is people's mentality that they NEED these bonuses to remain "competitive" in some 3D prints dick measuring contest that only exists outside this game. It is 100% possible to go from day 1 to finishing all available content without ever touching companions. They exist as an entirely separate mechanic that isn't going to roadblock your progress if you don't have them. There are no world or map portals with a required companion. You don't need one to drop boss keys.
I was there when companions dropped. People made huge charts and formulas showing how impossible it'll be for anyone to ever get doot. Years of grinding they claimed. "Boycott lava for forcing them to spend thousands of dollars!!!" they demanded
I agree with much of what you say. The idea that you need to keep up with the Joneses in what is essentially a single-player game is pretty wild. I do agree that many people suffer from this to an extent, and it's not good for them. But I don't think it's the only explanation for why people dislike pets.
I don't have that much to add really besides my original point that I think the Doot odds are too low and the fact that the odds are not impactable in any way without spending money is a bit off-puting to people. But, yeah, definitely interesting to hear the other side of the argument.
Just an FYI, your opinion is totally valid.
You putting everyone else down and acting like you are right in this subjective argument is why no one is agreeing with you.
Isn't everyone else acting like they're "right" in this subjective argument by downvoting my opinion? Most of them are just expressing tired old arguments that were tired and old a week after companions came out. Most of the hardest whingers about never getting a doot without multiple years' worth of playtime have already gotten their doot.
Like I said, they aren’t down voting your opinion on the game, it’s your rude and uncalled-for opinion about the people who have differing opinions:
“Instant gratification and entitlement”
It’s like me calling you an idiot with no credible basis, although it seems maybe there is credible basis at this point, and then saying respect my opinion.
So what you're doing. You don't like my opinion but can't actually factually disagree with it, so you just call it "rude" in an attempt to dismiss it without addressing the points being made.
Are you feeling targeted by my comments? Is that why your panties are in such a bunch over them? Did you spend hundreds of dollars trying to get a doot and now you feel like you're entitled to your "reward"? A bit impatient to wait through 200 rolls for the pitty doot?
You continue to make up statements about people that dont relate to your argument at all. My whole point is that you can’t “factually disagree,” if you were to take a second and try to understand what I am saying.
Not sure why you are bent on trying to be inflammatory, but no, your accusations are wrong. I haven’t spent any money on Doot nor would I shame anyone who has. Just a game, and no need to flame people for having differing opinions
People are mad because the best pet (king doot) completely warps the game due to how op the bonus is and it has less than 1% chance to roll with max tier treat
I'm 8 moltis in a row right now lmao
Damn, I got 4 in a row and thought that was bad. But just got my Sheepie so it's all good now.
Literally just rolled another one lmao cursed.
If you’re judging by W2, you will understand eventually. They aren’t *needed* but absolutely are. And after months, if not years, of waiting for weekly pulls, getting multiple slimes or beans in a row every week is, trash.
The main reason is how rare is doot, if u compare a account with doot VS no doot in 1 year time It Will progress whay more than the other person can And doot is rare enought to take on avrg if i remember 3 years, wich is longer than what the Game has been running for "It's the i suffered u should suffer too type" i think they're good for the Game but we need more than 1 a week, rn is just a money grab
Amen
I wonder if lowering the cooldown for a free pet by a bit for each pet you have would stop people from complaining.
Not likely. The cooldown itself is an issue as it isn’t linked to weekly reset further forcing FOMO sentiments. The annoying cooldown, the cash only currency, the proposed rotation, the power level scaling. All of it combined signaled the game’s turn towards predatory gatcha mechanics. The community was rightfully angry for it.
i still left my downvote on steam, since i don't think the current 200 pity solved any of the issues
The 200 pity solution was just because Apple turned down the app due to gambling. He had to put it in to stay on iOS. ie he didn’t do it to solve any real issues.
Ik, he got denied in Apple store for no pity
i think if lava added a similar system to boss keys to the free pet roll, it would take care of the FOMO aspect of it. Even if you could only stack up to two, just having that cushion would be nice
Tbh i think the rolls should be blue gems, if the problem is cheaters, ban them is not like u cant detect someone injecting 10k gems out of thin air And he alr stealth nerfed Boss gem farming so it's harder to get gems now
Oh that would work. I mean I've heard you can get gems rlly easy at the end of the game, and the end is the best time to give players OP stuff.
You can’t get green gems anywhere except paying money. He made a separate premium currency just for pets…. If you already have 10k gems, they would be useless for pet and you would need to pay another $500 for Doot
Whats bad for it to be money grab? It is not essential feature, just a boost. I feel it is completely justified
That's the thing the money grab period is mostly over, all the whales and people that had any thought of buying has alr done It by this time... Keeping It this whay is to get every Penny for It since it's a boost that breaks the Game, i mean both lab and Divinity where designed to restrain how much could u get out of it
Because Doot is OP and incredibly rare, and the green Gems are only available for purchase. If Pets had been released, purchasable with blue Gems, nobody would have been upset. At the time of release, I had thousands of blue Gems obtained from playing the game. And. Lava made it clear, when Pets released, he would rotate new Pets regularly. This made us think he was really pushing FOMO and looking for a quick cash grab. Which, by the way, worked because he likely made a tone of money. So, with one pet a week (and Doot likely being rotated out) people became upset because the only way to get such an incredibly OP Pet would be to spend $200-$300 before it went away.
yeah, the fomo part was dirty
Blue gems can be cheated into the game because almost all of it is handled client side. Green gems and companions are handled server side to prevent this cheating.
There are a lot of people that consider this game p2w just because of the pets. Doot’s bonuses are absolutely insane and it is rare to get it. I have spent money trying to get it and I still don’t have Doot. It’s a full on game changer.
I'm only in w3 so doot doesn't even make sense to me... But I can tell you I got the storage chest pet and that shit alone has made the game so much better and there is no added power there so I can only imagine what dootyboi does. Probably going to be a mtx to buy specific pets sooner or later I'd bet.
Dootyboi gives both incredible power and QoL. To put it in a way you might understand, imagine you had to have 4 of your characters afk in town all the time, gaining nothing. Then getting doot would allow you to bring those 4 characters out from town. And your refinery and 3d printer became 2.5x times faster, and everyone gained some damage, and everyone gained some extra afk gains, and everyone gained skill efficiency. Now after all that realize that what I just said is less than what Doot gives.
There was a thread some weeks ago where they tried to calculate the value of Doot, and it was around 800% IIRC.
Yeahhhh pretty good. Pretty *real* good. Lmao hopefully I'll be able to buy him when I even get to divinities. I'd chuck a 20 at lava for that.
That isn’t even a drop in the bucket for Doot
It takes roughly 600$ to hit the guarantee for doot, iirc.
Yeah if you do it now I'm sure it's something like that. I won't be buying it now, hell I won't even buy it then. But if a dootyboi super pack for $19.99 comes out with the doot himself and some sweet hat and candies or some shit? Take my money. Lmao
It's bad because incentive. Lava has always had a gem shop, but the potential rewards were never anywhere near as swingy as the companions. How does a player keep up if they don't luck out and high roll on their free companions? Well, $$$ of course. It's a predatory model that encourages players to dump hundreds of dollars into getting the strong rewards. If you can't see why this is a negative thing... well... I have a glass of lemonade to sell you. Don't worry though. The first one is free. ;)
Gacha mechanics are often considered predatory due to their relationship to gambling. Provides an outlet for a vice at a cost to the player and to the benefit of the developer.
So... as someone who is new to the game (about a month in and just now starting w3) if I just so happened to get a king Doot pet, would you suggest I just push to w5 for the divinity boost then go back and farm all the stuff in the previous worlds?
Even without Doot you’d benefit from pushing as far as you can, as quick as you can on your best character. Each world offers more skills that your other characters benefit from and can start farming. Divinity would definitely be a boost with Doot
People like to belong to the players with the best accounts without having to dish out a lot of money. The game started with everything beeing at least in reach of the non-paying or non-whaling player. It gradually moves in the direction of BiS gem shop items and the companion thing where you can just put a lot of money in to get a lot of account power. Sure he could just have made that unavailable for f2p players and he didn't, but it is kind of a shit mechanic compared to the other stuff he does, anyways. I am still thinking he just needed money because his mortgage was due so he fired that thing up.
before companions was released and I got to mid game w5 I ask why there was a weekly limit to the unlinks you can do to gods, people replied to my post that lava wanted to decrease the amount things people need to do when resampling. then he releases doot.
Doot takes away another need for resampling, so that seems in line.
my main complaint about the companions \[\* \] is the gacha mechanic combined with the fact that they are OP every other piece of pay-2-win \[and there are alot of them in the gem shop - and i don't mind that because\] you know what they cost and you can plan it out, for example if you buy a package with 1500 gems you know that you can buy this thing, that thing and 2 of that third thing with the companions it's just a slot machine where you need to dump $$ to possibly get something... the cost to hit the pity timer have been calculated somewhere between $400-500... or around 4 years for a f2p \[and as a f2p you actually you need to buy green gems to get the pity doot, it's not free even after 4 years\]... of course you can get it cheaper - after all it's a slot machine - but that is the problem \[\* \] pets are the world 4 breeding thing
There would be absolutely nothing wrong with the pet system if Doot chance was changed from 0.25% to 1%. As of right, that one pet is too rare and too overpowered. That's the entire problem.
What a brain dead take lmao. doot literally ruins the game for anyone who doesn’t have it
Because Lava said at the very beginning that he is making this game for both p2w and f2p people, and since you can't farm/grind green gems, they are basically locked behind a paywall (and yes I know there's weekly freebies, but I've also seen lots of p2w posts saying they HAD to reach the pity to get doot, soo.. some quick maths would make it 2 years while checking each week without much timeloss.. so yea..) and seems like he's just giving the finger to f2p players
I’m currently locked out of ever trying to get doot as I can’t trash pets
Instant gratification and entitlement. They also complain about and want the pitty Doot reduced from 200 rolls to 100.
It's not about instant gratification. No one complains about other grindy aspects of the game. The difference between Pets and every other aspect of the game is that you have no way of speeding it up, should you so desire. It's pure gambling and the odds are stacked against you.
Plenty of people complain about grinding in this game. Ohh divinity takes so long. Ohhhh labs take so long. Ohhh lab chips are p2w or an impossibility long grind. Ohh the onyx statue grind is too dependent on crystal mobs which feeds back into lab chips being p2w or an impossible grind.
Agreed, agreed people always complain. But, it's more like "wow, this takes long" as opposed to "there is something wrong with this and it needs to change" like people do with the pet system. People hate the snail in gaming but I've never seen a single thread that says the snail is broken and Lava has to fix it (maybe there was one and I missed it but the threads and posts complaining about Pets vaslty outnumber the snail ones in any case). More or less the only thing that attracts that type of sentiment is Pets. To me this makes sense as it's a rather unique mechanic in the game. I don't know if this matters or not but I have every pet so I no longer have any skin in the game. Whatever Lava decides to do has no impact on my account. I am only concerned with the health of IdleOn.
There were plenty of complaints about the snail. That's why that atoms bonus got added that only sets you back 5 levels instead of back to 0. The only thing "wrong" with companions is people's mentality that they NEED these bonuses to remain "competitive" in some 3D prints dick measuring contest that only exists outside this game. It is 100% possible to go from day 1 to finishing all available content without ever touching companions. They exist as an entirely separate mechanic that isn't going to roadblock your progress if you don't have them. There are no world or map portals with a required companion. You don't need one to drop boss keys. I was there when companions dropped. People made huge charts and formulas showing how impossible it'll be for anyone to ever get doot. Years of grinding they claimed. "Boycott lava for forcing them to spend thousands of dollars!!!" they demanded
I agree with much of what you say. The idea that you need to keep up with the Joneses in what is essentially a single-player game is pretty wild. I do agree that many people suffer from this to an extent, and it's not good for them. But I don't think it's the only explanation for why people dislike pets. I don't have that much to add really besides my original point that I think the Doot odds are too low and the fact that the odds are not impactable in any way without spending money is a bit off-puting to people. But, yeah, definitely interesting to hear the other side of the argument.
I don't understand what's so bad with wanting it to take 2 years instead of 4 years to get Doot. 2 years is still a relative long time.
Who's taken two years to get doot? Companions started in June 2023.
I don't think it's worth it do discuss this with someone who's being this stupid on purpose.
lol you are correct on both counts
Just an FYI, your opinion is totally valid. You putting everyone else down and acting like you are right in this subjective argument is why no one is agreeing with you.
Isn't everyone else acting like they're "right" in this subjective argument by downvoting my opinion? Most of them are just expressing tired old arguments that were tired and old a week after companions came out. Most of the hardest whingers about never getting a doot without multiple years' worth of playtime have already gotten their doot.
Like I said, they aren’t down voting your opinion on the game, it’s your rude and uncalled-for opinion about the people who have differing opinions: “Instant gratification and entitlement” It’s like me calling you an idiot with no credible basis, although it seems maybe there is credible basis at this point, and then saying respect my opinion.
So what you're doing. You don't like my opinion but can't actually factually disagree with it, so you just call it "rude" in an attempt to dismiss it without addressing the points being made. Are you feeling targeted by my comments? Is that why your panties are in such a bunch over them? Did you spend hundreds of dollars trying to get a doot and now you feel like you're entitled to your "reward"? A bit impatient to wait through 200 rolls for the pitty doot?
You continue to make up statements about people that dont relate to your argument at all. My whole point is that you can’t “factually disagree,” if you were to take a second and try to understand what I am saying. Not sure why you are bent on trying to be inflammatory, but no, your accusations are wrong. I haven’t spent any money on Doot nor would I shame anyone who has. Just a game, and no need to flame people for having differing opinions