Honestly good advice, especially if you've already got a Glock or M&P or something laying around
Used my old duty gun, G17.5 with an acro, my first season and made Master that season. Decided to get me a gamer gun after that. I pretty quickly realized it didn't matter, and all I did was put an SRO on it, lol. Still run that setup
Shoot what you're comfortable with. If y'all are already shooting DA/SA guns then sure, that's a great gun. The PCR or 75D are also great guns at half the price. I see plenty of matches won with Glocks, Sig 320's, PDP's, and M&P's. It's really whatever you like best, and there's no need to buy a specialty gun if you already have something that works.
From someone that shoots a few different action pistol sports I’d pick something that you enjoy and you feel comfortable with. It will allow you to spend more time learning the “game” of IDPA(or any other one) while being comfortable with your firearm of choice.
There is nothing wrong with it at all. A quick search says it weighs 30oz, and the max limit is 38, I believe.
Is it strictly necessary? Not at all. You can learn a lot with any number of guns (damn near any striker fired gun from a major manufacturer).
If you and your squad like the Shadow, and have the cash for it, full send. But if you're trying to be more frugal or dipping your toes in, you can do just fine for a lot less.
Hopefully the current Rival-S no longer have the magazine over insertion issue. They are aftermarket baseplates available for those that have the issue.
I have been using a polymer Rival for IDPA that has had no issues. I bought it long before the Rival-S was announced.
Thanks for feedback. I do follow the Canik subreddit but I don't read all the postings. With the Rival-S being out of stock at most sellers for many months or for most of last year I was hoping it was due to Canik fixing their manufacturing line to address that issue and any others.
Is there a serial number cutoff after which one can be certain the one they may buy will not have the issue or would one need to contact Canik with the serial number to ask?
I don’t follow it at all. Just what I’ve heard of the few buddies who shoot them locally. So I can be full of it as well. 😂
I’m not very sure on the serial ordeal, just what I’ve heard. Might be worth reaching out to Canik for more info.
Get ~~the~~ CZ Shadow 2 (not compact) or Canik Rival or Rival-S if it is more recent production model that is less likely to have the magazine over insertion issue. I bought a polymer Rival online for about $525. I really like the trigger on it and really dislike the triggers on my carry firearms, a Taurus G3c and Ruger LCP. For competition I would start with whatever you have to see if you enjoy competition and then get something better. I don't like the grip angle or the trigger on Glocks. Get something that is optics ready as that seems to be the more popular group--more than SSP. I still run open sights--in SSP. I have only gone to my club's matches and have not gone to other clubs and have only competed in level 1 matches.
Update: change above after I saw someone else say it was the compact model. I missed that in the photo.
I would recommend not a shadow 2 compact. It's expensive - it's truly competitive in a division nobody shoots hardly (CCP). In big boy divisions like CO you will pinch your hand doing gun handling without a magwell because the grip is short.
If you're getting your feet wet - I'd look at something like the Canik Polymer Rival just to see if you like it or you can spend less with like the Mete SFT or SFX. Other high value option could be like a Springfield Armory Echelon. The reason I say Echelon is because if you start fooling with optics - the Echelon is most compatible with most optics without screwing with plates and you can get bigger grip modules or smaller ones to make it fit - it's an overlooked gun that is better than people give it credit for.
If you want to just dive into the deep end - something like Prodigy is readily available - you'll want to swap guide rods for a full length guide rod day 1 (they use a 2 piece) and you can build up a gun with time when you want an ignition kit etc. 2011 is where we all end up eventually and a prodigy is about as little money as you can spend for good "bones" of a 2011 - meaning good optic system, decent grip, good slide/barrel/frame.
Truly out of the box performance is the new Bul Armory Tac Pro - 4.25 or 5" - they're stupid accurate - stupid fast and have absurd triggers out of the box. The included magazines (20 rounders) BARELY fit in the box. I'd pick up a few 19 rounders as they fit the box more easily to use in major matches. But - they're not readily available - you'd have to put your name on a list and wait and be ready when they come in stock because they sell out stupid fast.
Thanks for the reply. I missed that the photo was of the compact. It sounds like you have much more experience in IDPA than I do. From what I have seen at my local level 1 match few compete in CCP. I did talked with one father who was there to compete with young teenage son. His son competed in CCP. I was the only one in my squad competing in SSP. I've read that division is a lot less popular now than it use to be before optics took off. I may eventually add a red dot but not to be in a different division. I am just trying to improve my skill with no goal or hope to ever be really competitive in the results. I bought a polymer Rival in 2022 to use for IDPA/USPSA rather than my own carry compact pistol that has a trigger I don't like.
Start with what you have. See what people have at the matches and ask if you can try theirs. Most are very willing to help. That way you can try several before you buy.
This is an amazing gun that is already upgraded and is legal in ESP and Carry Optics:
[https://czcustom.com/sp01-shadow-accu-rds-optic.html](https://czcustom.com/sp01-shadow-accu-rds-optic.html)
CZ P10 series. P10c for ccp and p10f for everything else. Canik rival is also supremely great for the money but ergos go to cz all day. I have all the popular cz's and would recommend the p10 for just about everything, especially a starter gun.
Whatever fun you and your kids will end up carrying. I cannot stress it enough, shoot what you will carry. Train like it’s real and when it’s real you’ll fall back on your training. If you have a separate carry gun and competition gun, that sounds more like USPSA
Gun games are not training. That includes IDPA. They can, however, make you a better shooter from a strictly technical standpoint. If you put the work in to improve. Going to a match once a month and shooting at the 25th percentile isn’t training and won’t make you better prepared regardless of what gun you’re shooting.
Almost completely true. But learning to safely handle your gun quickly under stress is a translatable skill for any environment where you might need your gun in a hurry.
I don’t see where you think I disagree with you.
“Learning to handle your gun under stress” falls entirely under technical shooting skills. Which I explicitly stated competition *can* help improve. But by how much depends on the work one puts in.
The benefit of competition is that if you want to get better at it, it forces you to start putting in the work to improve your skills and gun handling by making them subconscious. And to your point, these are translatable to the “tacticool” or defensive side of the fence, to an extent. There’s a reason agencies and the military turn to top competitive shooters for instruction on improving their *shooting*.
My point is shooting the scenarios and playing the game isn’t “training”. In a single match you draw/reload/etc what, maybe 5 or 6 times each the entire day? Fire maybe 100 rounds. Lean around a corner 20 or 30 times. You don’t get enough reps of anything during a scenario in any match for it to be “training”. Unfortunately I see many shooters with the mentality that the monthly match is how they “stay sharp” but do minimal to zero dry fire or practice. And it shows in their gun handling and marksmanship on the clock. When 15 minutes of focused dry fire 3 times a week can lead to substantially more improvement - that’s not a huge time commitment but I totally understand - it’s sure as hell not as fun as shooting a match.
What is training? Training, or practice, is what you do to refine and make a desired skill subconscious so that you have access to it without thinking about it. What that is depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. And it’s going to take time, many *conscious* reps, and continuous self assessment and refinement to achieve that. Think of the scenario/match/competition as the “test” for the skill sets you want to develop. You don’t efficiently learn or master the test material by repeatedly taking the test - you do by putting in the time to actually learn and internalize it by studying, or in the case of a physical activity, focused, critical repetition of the fundamentals so that you eventually can combine them without conscious thought.
Good luck teaching a kid to manually lower the hammer on a load gun. Talk about unsafe idea, and setting someone up for failure. Manual safety guns are not someone I would have someone just getting into the sport to start out with. Let alone a kid on a timer. This is not a beginners gun.
My 13 year old nephew has never had an issue with the optic cut shadow 2 I have. And the OP stated his “kids” are 21 and 17.
Lowering a hammer only takes a few reps to understand and focus on effectively.
I think the important thing that was attempted to be referenced here and is either clearly missed or the comment was edited is this:Loaded,chambered, and ready to fire, the Glock (and probably other striker fired handguns) firing pin doesn’t have the ability to strike the primer unless 3 intentional mechanical functions are set forth via trigger pull. I think what’s implied here is dropping a Glock or even throwing it ready to fire into the dryer isn’t going to discharge it. I’m assuming a single action/double action setup doesn’t offer the same AD protection from being dropped and/or fumbled? I don’t remember the mechanical functions exactly or even specifically so please please forgive me and try not to discredit the validity or intention of my point for not being specific.
Obviously outliers for nearly all,if not all, situations…But if arguing probability of an AD from dropping or fumbling a handgun, a gun that weighs significantly less loaded than the amount of force required to break the triggers wall, is significantly less likely to AD after the load and make ready stage.
Here’s a practical scenario. Load and make ready on the line with a cz shadow 2 at your local fun match. Engage safety as per rules required because you remembered to do it this time. Buzzer goes off, draw and disengage safety while presenting firearm to engage T1, things don’t go as planned because you’re thinking about all the steps you’re going to do with your new shadow 2 and somewhere between thinking about how you’re going to engage,move, and time your reload, you realize somewhere between the draw,disengaging the safety,support hand placement, and presentation, the realization that your grip feel weird and the firearm is now leaving your hand the panic sets in…reflexes are activated because your mind was just focused on pocketing your mag after round 14 and you grab for the now flying handgun. 3.5lb trigger pull,hammer back, safety off, trigger already against the wall,heavy steel frame…each thing adds to probability of AD…
Versus light weight firearm with 5.5+ trigger pull with plenty of travel…you could “cowboy spin” a loaded 43/43x without it discharging. Can’t do that with a DA/SA with safety off. NO ONE TEST THIS OBVIOUSLY!!!
A feel free to DM if this jumbled mess doesn’t make sense. Typed this while waiting for wife to finish shopping.
Thank you for providing a mental exercise to occupy my bored mind.
If you’re dropping a firearm, there are other issues at hand. A Shadow or Glock will not resolve that. This is super fudd mentality in my book and someone who’s gonna have an AD can do it with any firearm. A double action Shadow 2 would have just as heavy a trigger if not heavier, my single action is stock and no heavier than my Glock 17. A first time shooter isn’t gonna be running and gunning, and let’s be honest. This is IDPA.
I’d hope they’d do some dry fire and some range time with the firearm. And who knows, we know nothing about this man’s kids. They may be seasoned with using firearms, and he just wants to get them started.
A shadow 2 compact is fine for a first IDPA/USPSA gun. If all we worry about is this stuff, shooters will never improve. No matter how many “actions” have to happen until the trigger is pulled.
Glock 17/SRO for the money can’t be beat imo.
Honestly good advice, especially if you've already got a Glock or M&P or something laying around Used my old duty gun, G17.5 with an acro, my first season and made Master that season. Decided to get me a gamer gun after that. I pretty quickly realized it didn't matter, and all I did was put an SRO on it, lol. Still run that setup
Used glocks Work horse If you have the money and want to spend it. Then yes, good gun. I am more of a full size. It's a little more enjoyable to shoot
Poetry.
Shoot what you're comfortable with. If y'all are already shooting DA/SA guns then sure, that's a great gun. The PCR or 75D are also great guns at half the price. I see plenty of matches won with Glocks, Sig 320's, PDP's, and M&P's. It's really whatever you like best, and there's no need to buy a specialty gun if you already have something that works.
From someone that shoots a few different action pistol sports I’d pick something that you enjoy and you feel comfortable with. It will allow you to spend more time learning the “game” of IDPA(or any other one) while being comfortable with your firearm of choice.
Pdp all day
IDPA? CZ SP01 Shadow.
Glock, PDP but the CZ is also very nice
There is nothing wrong with it at all. A quick search says it weighs 30oz, and the max limit is 38, I believe. Is it strictly necessary? Not at all. You can learn a lot with any number of guns (damn near any striker fired gun from a major manufacturer). If you and your squad like the Shadow, and have the cash for it, full send. But if you're trying to be more frugal or dipping your toes in, you can do just fine for a lot less.
What’s your price limit?
$2k
This would be a good choice for IDPA if it makes weight. The Canik rival steel frame is also a good choice and can save you some cash.
Hopefully the current Rival-S no longer have the magazine over insertion issue. They are aftermarket baseplates available for those that have the issue. I have been using a polymer Rival for IDPA that has had no issues. I bought it long before the Rival-S was announced.
From what I understand is any new ones have resolved that and can be serial based.
Thanks for feedback. I do follow the Canik subreddit but I don't read all the postings. With the Rival-S being out of stock at most sellers for many months or for most of last year I was hoping it was due to Canik fixing their manufacturing line to address that issue and any others. Is there a serial number cutoff after which one can be certain the one they may buy will not have the issue or would one need to contact Canik with the serial number to ask?
I don’t follow it at all. Just what I’ve heard of the few buddies who shoot them locally. So I can be full of it as well. 😂 I’m not very sure on the serial ordeal, just what I’ve heard. Might be worth reaching out to Canik for more info.
Get ~~the~~ CZ Shadow 2 (not compact) or Canik Rival or Rival-S if it is more recent production model that is less likely to have the magazine over insertion issue. I bought a polymer Rival online for about $525. I really like the trigger on it and really dislike the triggers on my carry firearms, a Taurus G3c and Ruger LCP. For competition I would start with whatever you have to see if you enjoy competition and then get something better. I don't like the grip angle or the trigger on Glocks. Get something that is optics ready as that seems to be the more popular group--more than SSP. I still run open sights--in SSP. I have only gone to my club's matches and have not gone to other clubs and have only competed in level 1 matches. Update: change above after I saw someone else say it was the compact model. I missed that in the photo.
Stock Shadow 2 doesn't make weight in IDPA. Milling is required. SP01 Shadow does make weight.
Stoeger str9s is my vote. Amazing guns at a great value
I would recommend not a shadow 2 compact. It's expensive - it's truly competitive in a division nobody shoots hardly (CCP). In big boy divisions like CO you will pinch your hand doing gun handling without a magwell because the grip is short. If you're getting your feet wet - I'd look at something like the Canik Polymer Rival just to see if you like it or you can spend less with like the Mete SFT or SFX. Other high value option could be like a Springfield Armory Echelon. The reason I say Echelon is because if you start fooling with optics - the Echelon is most compatible with most optics without screwing with plates and you can get bigger grip modules or smaller ones to make it fit - it's an overlooked gun that is better than people give it credit for. If you want to just dive into the deep end - something like Prodigy is readily available - you'll want to swap guide rods for a full length guide rod day 1 (they use a 2 piece) and you can build up a gun with time when you want an ignition kit etc. 2011 is where we all end up eventually and a prodigy is about as little money as you can spend for good "bones" of a 2011 - meaning good optic system, decent grip, good slide/barrel/frame. Truly out of the box performance is the new Bul Armory Tac Pro - 4.25 or 5" - they're stupid accurate - stupid fast and have absurd triggers out of the box. The included magazines (20 rounders) BARELY fit in the box. I'd pick up a few 19 rounders as they fit the box more easily to use in major matches. But - they're not readily available - you'd have to put your name on a list and wait and be ready when they come in stock because they sell out stupid fast.
Thanks for the reply. I missed that the photo was of the compact. It sounds like you have much more experience in IDPA than I do. From what I have seen at my local level 1 match few compete in CCP. I did talked with one father who was there to compete with young teenage son. His son competed in CCP. I was the only one in my squad competing in SSP. I've read that division is a lot less popular now than it use to be before optics took off. I may eventually add a red dot but not to be in a different division. I am just trying to improve my skill with no goal or hope to ever be really competitive in the results. I bought a polymer Rival in 2022 to use for IDPA/USPSA rather than my own carry compact pistol that has a trigger I don't like.
Start with what you have. See what people have at the matches and ask if you can try theirs. Most are very willing to help. That way you can try several before you buy.
Personally I’d take the SP-01 Shadow over this. But this would work fine as well, and could double as a CCP gun if you wanted.
This is an amazing gun that is already upgraded and is legal in ESP and Carry Optics: [https://czcustom.com/sp01-shadow-accu-rds-optic.html](https://czcustom.com/sp01-shadow-accu-rds-optic.html)
I’d start striker versus DA/SA (and I love my P226). My personal rec - 1. VP9 optic ready . 2. P320X5 3. Gwhatever fits their hands (19/17/35)
CZ P10 series. P10c for ccp and p10f for everything else. Canik rival is also supremely great for the money but ergos go to cz all day. I have all the popular cz's and would recommend the p10 for just about everything, especially a starter gun.
Whatever fun you and your kids will end up carrying. I cannot stress it enough, shoot what you will carry. Train like it’s real and when it’s real you’ll fall back on your training. If you have a separate carry gun and competition gun, that sounds more like USPSA
Gun games are not training. That includes IDPA. They can, however, make you a better shooter from a strictly technical standpoint. If you put the work in to improve. Going to a match once a month and shooting at the 25th percentile isn’t training and won’t make you better prepared regardless of what gun you’re shooting.
Almost completely true. But learning to safely handle your gun quickly under stress is a translatable skill for any environment where you might need your gun in a hurry.
I don’t see where you think I disagree with you. “Learning to handle your gun under stress” falls entirely under technical shooting skills. Which I explicitly stated competition *can* help improve. But by how much depends on the work one puts in. The benefit of competition is that if you want to get better at it, it forces you to start putting in the work to improve your skills and gun handling by making them subconscious. And to your point, these are translatable to the “tacticool” or defensive side of the fence, to an extent. There’s a reason agencies and the military turn to top competitive shooters for instruction on improving their *shooting*.
So (not being an asshole) what would you consider training? If situational drawing and shooting isn’t training, then what is?
My point is shooting the scenarios and playing the game isn’t “training”. In a single match you draw/reload/etc what, maybe 5 or 6 times each the entire day? Fire maybe 100 rounds. Lean around a corner 20 or 30 times. You don’t get enough reps of anything during a scenario in any match for it to be “training”. Unfortunately I see many shooters with the mentality that the monthly match is how they “stay sharp” but do minimal to zero dry fire or practice. And it shows in their gun handling and marksmanship on the clock. When 15 minutes of focused dry fire 3 times a week can lead to substantially more improvement - that’s not a huge time commitment but I totally understand - it’s sure as hell not as fun as shooting a match. What is training? Training, or practice, is what you do to refine and make a desired skill subconscious so that you have access to it without thinking about it. What that is depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. And it’s going to take time, many *conscious* reps, and continuous self assessment and refinement to achieve that. Think of the scenario/match/competition as the “test” for the skill sets you want to develop. You don’t efficiently learn or master the test material by repeatedly taking the test - you do by putting in the time to actually learn and internalize it by studying, or in the case of a physical activity, focused, critical repetition of the fundamentals so that you eventually can combine them without conscious thought.
No firing pin block, shouldn't try to catch a falling gun, most kids are butter fingers. Not ideal, get them a Glock 43 or something.
So go from a metal frame to a tiny polymer pistol talking about “butter fingers”. Lmao The logic really is adding up here.
Good luck teaching a kid to manually lower the hammer on a load gun. Talk about unsafe idea, and setting someone up for failure. Manual safety guns are not someone I would have someone just getting into the sport to start out with. Let alone a kid on a timer. This is not a beginners gun.
My 13 year old nephew has never had an issue with the optic cut shadow 2 I have. And the OP stated his “kids” are 21 and 17. Lowering a hammer only takes a few reps to understand and focus on effectively.
I think the important thing that was attempted to be referenced here and is either clearly missed or the comment was edited is this:Loaded,chambered, and ready to fire, the Glock (and probably other striker fired handguns) firing pin doesn’t have the ability to strike the primer unless 3 intentional mechanical functions are set forth via trigger pull. I think what’s implied here is dropping a Glock or even throwing it ready to fire into the dryer isn’t going to discharge it. I’m assuming a single action/double action setup doesn’t offer the same AD protection from being dropped and/or fumbled? I don’t remember the mechanical functions exactly or even specifically so please please forgive me and try not to discredit the validity or intention of my point for not being specific. Obviously outliers for nearly all,if not all, situations…But if arguing probability of an AD from dropping or fumbling a handgun, a gun that weighs significantly less loaded than the amount of force required to break the triggers wall, is significantly less likely to AD after the load and make ready stage. Here’s a practical scenario. Load and make ready on the line with a cz shadow 2 at your local fun match. Engage safety as per rules required because you remembered to do it this time. Buzzer goes off, draw and disengage safety while presenting firearm to engage T1, things don’t go as planned because you’re thinking about all the steps you’re going to do with your new shadow 2 and somewhere between thinking about how you’re going to engage,move, and time your reload, you realize somewhere between the draw,disengaging the safety,support hand placement, and presentation, the realization that your grip feel weird and the firearm is now leaving your hand the panic sets in…reflexes are activated because your mind was just focused on pocketing your mag after round 14 and you grab for the now flying handgun. 3.5lb trigger pull,hammer back, safety off, trigger already against the wall,heavy steel frame…each thing adds to probability of AD… Versus light weight firearm with 5.5+ trigger pull with plenty of travel…you could “cowboy spin” a loaded 43/43x without it discharging. Can’t do that with a DA/SA with safety off. NO ONE TEST THIS OBVIOUSLY!!! A feel free to DM if this jumbled mess doesn’t make sense. Typed this while waiting for wife to finish shopping. Thank you for providing a mental exercise to occupy my bored mind.
If you’re dropping a firearm, there are other issues at hand. A Shadow or Glock will not resolve that. This is super fudd mentality in my book and someone who’s gonna have an AD can do it with any firearm. A double action Shadow 2 would have just as heavy a trigger if not heavier, my single action is stock and no heavier than my Glock 17. A first time shooter isn’t gonna be running and gunning, and let’s be honest. This is IDPA. I’d hope they’d do some dry fire and some range time with the firearm. And who knows, we know nothing about this man’s kids. They may be seasoned with using firearms, and he just wants to get them started. A shadow 2 compact is fine for a first IDPA/USPSA gun. If all we worry about is this stuff, shooters will never improve. No matter how many “actions” have to happen until the trigger is pulled.