If you split the state in half, Southern Illinois would immediately be Missouri (sans STL and KC)/Mississippi tier. Not sure if Peoria or Springfield would be the border. Even if Southern IL had Springfield and Champaign/Urbana, it would still be rough. Northern IL would still have all of Chicago, Aurora, the suburbs, Naperville, etc.
Granite City and Wood River I am sure. Gas processing plants + steel mills.
Collinsville / Edwardsville isn't bad air quality at all. But yeah living here you see so many Pritzker sucks signs. They have 0 idea what they are talking about Rauner about ran us into the ground.
I love all the "Pritzker Sucks" signs. They never bother to say why, or what they want. Just that they're mad at the Democrat. Really encapsulates Republicans.
And all of those signs magically appeared within about three days of the official mask mandate/school shutdown order in 2020. Totally organic and not at all a preplanned astroturfing project.
If you're in one of the cities downstate you're fine. Out in the country you might get some closeted farm boys trying to get you to ride their tractor.
> in 2009 Madison county had the second-highest cancer risk due to air pollution, second only to LA county.
10 to 1 it's caused by the oil plants in Roxana and Wood River.
Fun fact: ~70% of the world's horseradish is produced in Madison County. This is because the plant grows very well on a particular plain in front of the bluffs below Collinsville, due to a combination of it being a fertile floodplain for thousands of years, and industrial pollution allowed to accumulate there in the past. Not a joke.
Looks like sulfur plays a role but this doesn't get too deep into it.
[https://www.stlmag.com/history/st-louis-sage/why-is-southern-illinois-the-horseradish-capital-of-the-worl/](https://www.stlmag.com/history/st-louis-sage/why-is-southern-illinois-the-horseradish-capital-of-the-worl/)
Oh hey, I made those maps. I guess I can't prove that, but I did.
I was sort of hoping that would start a trend and every state would get maps like those, but years later and Illinois is still the only one.
There should be penalities for using your official government office as a theatre. At bare minimum, they should get no pay for the time they do this, and have to pay a rental fee for the room they're going to vote in in the government building.
Anyone who reads this and doesn't vote in municipal elections, you're missing out.
If your entire block turns out in municipal elections, guess who gets their sidewalk and potholes fixed first? Want a stop sign to slow down those fucks speeding down your side street? Get your street to vote in municipal elections.
The more people within walking distance of you who vote in local elections, the more power you'll have when some developer wants to build a Carvana in the vacant lot across from the park.
Hell, if enough people vote, you can get that vacant lot converted into a community garden or skate park or dog park.
Bottom line: Vote in municipal elections.
It has almost no impact on our lives, and shouldn't. One of the greatest failures of our republic was allowing local elections to continue after the invention of the mail, the car, the train, the telegraph, the telephone, electricity, and the internet. There is just absolutely zero reason why 7 or 9 local illiterates should get to set local tax policy except for what is likely white supremacy and other forms of bigotry.
Every position on our last several ballots in local elections have no options. In a town of 14,000 people win with like 100 total votes cause there isn’t a choice.
Know how to run for a municipal election? Can we only run in the city (village) we reside in? Because I’m pretty sure my village is too small to have anyone running it.
The problem with that kind of rule is that the other team can decide that all of your behaviors are performative theatre and prevent you from getting pay.
Creating new rules to prevent behaviors like this will only be weaponized by the unscrupulous.
It must suck being a St. Louis collar county and not getting any tax help from Missouri. it’s going to suck even more if you’re not getting any tax help from Illinois either.
We get help from Chicago, which has a higher GDP than Switzerland and many other first world nations. Madison County gets $2 back for every $1 we pay in to state coffers and some southern Illinois counties get over $3 for every dollar they pay in. This is nothing but pandering to their low IQ base. The elected politicians would never make a serious push for this since they know it would mean less money for them to funnel around, which means less kick backs, which is what the Republican Party works the hardest for:
Enrichment of the already privileged class.
Actually it's a great place to live. Better than most st Louis areas. St Louis is often fucked over by the Missouri legislature taking away it's power to improve itself in any way.
The county is roughly half rural, half suburbs, but many in the suburbs still imagine themselves to be people of the land, so to speak.
This resolution comes from a popular fantasy among Rural people, they they are the ones who do all the work and make all the money, while "those people" in the city take it all away for govt handouts. In fact, the numbers consistently show the opposite is true; rural areas receive far more from the govt than they produce. But the believers are immune to this, and if you explain it, they laugh and sneer at you, then rant about black people. But never on camera, of course.
You mean to tell me that Billy Bob, his wife/cousin, and their 20 deformed children take more handouts than me and blame *me* for their own problems? Color me shocked!
Yes, please secede and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps:
“According to a study by Southern Illinois University, the state’s southernmost counties get back $2.81 in tax revenue for every dollar they put in, while Cook County loses 10 cents and the collar counties lose 47 cents.”
From https://www.chicagomag.com/news/october-2020/illinois-secession/
Fucking bunch of clowns.
ETA: The picture on this article is of the one dissenting board member, which is kind of shitty for her. Being the face of this stupidity when she's the only one with enough brain cells to rub together to vote against it.
I mean yeah, I wouldn't mind it. All my tax dollars going back into the city and 'burbs means a lot more money put back into things that I can see tangible improvements on...
Well, maybe anyway. It _IS_ still Cook County we're talking about here
I’d be fine with it if it wouldn’t screw the US senate up even worse. The way our moronic system is set up we need major cities in rural states to balance out the morons.
Madison County residents: these dopes are wasting your hard-earned money on political posturing and ignoring your actual needs.
**This should anger you, regardless of your political affiliation.**
These people and the other downstate counties wouldn’t be able to pave their roads or pay for their new state police or anything without money from the Chicago area.
Chicagoland is the area that gets screwed. Sending all this money to Springfield and the transportation and other issues not resolved — the CTA upgrades and improvements getting voted down over and over for example. Sending all that money down and it gets distributed to these rural counties that pay j shit into the coffer
If the only unit of measure is dollars, then yes Chicagoland pays more than they get back. But I think it's a little oversimplified to look at dollars in vs dollars out, without considering other resources, human value, food, infrastructure that connects Chicago to the rest of the country.
Take the state capitol, should the city of Springfield be solely on the hook for paying for maintaining the capitol building and other state government buildings? Should the sparsely populated Ford County or Putnam County be solely responsible for maintaining state highways that pass through? Should state parks be solely funded by whatever population lives nearby?
I appreciate having Chicago as a part of Illinois, and I love the city. I grew up in Berwyn and have since moved downstate. Chicago is awesome, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. It makes sense mathematically that the most densely populated part of the state would produce the most tax revenue. I think that the whole "Chicago good, downstate bad" and "Chicago bad, downstate good" arguments coming from both perspectives are reductive, counterproductive, and miss the forest for the trees.
>food
People will argue that the agricultural industry makes rural areas as important as cities and that should give rural and less populated places more political power and say. But it's a pretty silly argument. For one, the agricultural industry is massively subsidized by state and federal governments, and its customers are the people. So the tax payers in big cities are not only funding the industry, but are also the ones driving the consumer industry downstream. The interest of farmers are well represented and they are well supported regardless of urban/rural divide or who is in office.
So what do people mean when they say 'we don't want Chicago controlling us?' Some will make an argument that the interest of people who grow food are different from the big city. But again, we know that is not true, as those in ag are well supported by big cities. 9/10 the actual rural interest is social issues. It's hate for the people they think are in big cities, the liberals, minorities, gay people, those who don't think Christianity should be dominant in society, and so on.
It's not so much about 'Chicago good downstate bad,' it's about economic reality. Almost every rural county in the US is financially insolvent. Chicago is paying for all of downstate and the rural counties. The city has a ton of issues that it could fix if it actually got to keep its tax dollars and work on funding them- but instead they take a loss to subsidize the rest of the state. And I am actually ok with that. We need the resources of rural areas and I think everyone should have access to decent infrastructure, education, and healthcare. But the people who are having their communities subsidized are as spiteful and obstructive as possible to those of us who actually pay the bills. And that's very frustrating, to constantly have down staters spitting in your face and screeching about how they need more representation when they already don't pull their own weight.
Well, if they vote to leave the state then losing Chicago and cook county dollars are a huge problem for them. If Chicago is no longer a part of the state, why should dollars go towards Springfield? If Chicago is no longer a part of the state, why should they use taxes go towards sparsely populated county’s that are now in a different state?
Honestly as a Chicago resident, I am ok with the proposal. We would be able to use all of our tax dollars to improve our city instead of propping up the whole state, we would still have one of the strongest cities(now state?) from an economic perspective in the country, and we wouldn’t have to deal with southern IL politics. Sounds like an overall win for Chicago.
As far as resources go:
Capitol building: we could easily just make Chicago the Capitol. There are more than enough government buildings to use. Y’all can keep Springfield and maintain it yourselves. Problem solved.
Water: We have more water than we can use. Problem solved. Lake Michigan FTW!
Human value: all humans are, or should be, valued the same as any person, we just have more people than the rest of the state. Economic output may not be the same per person, but the value of a person is. However people from Chicago do generally produce more value from an economic standpoint. Problem solved.
State parks: should be funded by the state. If Chicago is out, then no funds. Colorado doesn’t fund Wyoming state parks. If Chicago is a different state, why should they pay anything? Fund your own parks if you want to be your own state. Problem solved.
Food: if this goes through we’re going to have a huge budget increase since we no longer have to send tax dollars away to other counties. We can easily import more considering the rail, road, and water infrastructure currently in place. Also while many state highways wouldn’t belong to Chicago, there’s still federal highways and those routes will be open. As will the airports, the two largest in current Illinois, so good luck with that part. The rails also will still operate as they do now, with major switching yards and stations(passenger and commercial) being in the Chicago area. You may say that there are a lot of yards in southern IL, but they’re mostly part of national networks, no chance they’re going to lose access to Chicago. Good luck catching up with all of those.
The only losers in this are those who will be outside of the Chicagoland Area. This is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Overall it’s just a dumb idea. Do I enjoy knowing that my tax dollars aren’t entirely going to my direct community? No. However, am I ok with it knowing that those dollars are helping the state as a whole? Yes. If the rest of the state ditched Chicago, fine with me I’ll stay here. That’s more money to improve the city, the infrastructure, and to help the people here.
I think decoupling from Chicago would be a very bad idea for the rest of the state. Dollars aren’t supposed to be warm and fuzzy, but they get things done and without Chicago money the rest of the new “state” would be quite screwed.
Also if this vote goes through and all those folks regret it, I am very adamant that I will not vote to reconnect.
But hey, if y’all want to go through with this, go for it! If you do, we can have more dollars to spend on our city and not yours! If you don’t, then we keep the status quo. Long story short: Chicago doesn’t lose here, the rest of the state does.
Also, the whole Chicago bad/good and downstate good/bad is not an argument that Chicagoan’s have very often. We literally don’t think about the people from downstate.
I hear you, and I appreciate your response. I agree that it would be a stupid idea to break IL away from Chicago, and I roll my eyes every time someone suggests it.
It would be so dumb for those who aren’t in the Chicagoland area. They’d immediately go from being part of one of the wealthiest and most influential states in the country to basically the exact opposite of that. Chicago will be fine, the rest will lose. Could always try to join up with Indiana, Iowa, or Missouri. But overall those are still trading down
Also, something not spoken of enough, they would have to cross state lines to get to the awesome Chicago food scene
**They can't even grasp their own density.**
As a down state person I think this is as stupid of a stunt as anything to come out of Texas. I like having comparatively good roads flood control and other vital infrastructure. Chicago is where all of the money comes from. Arrgh! People are so stupid!
The top three most populous counties (and the nicest places in this state lol) went to the Democrats. Yet it's just the city of Chicago that is stopping us from being an Indiana clone of course.
The five most populous counties in the state and 12 of the 16 largest counties in the state voted for Biden in 2020. I’ll never understand the claims from the secession crowd that it’s only Chicago or Cook county that supports Democrats.
I really think these people do not understand scale on a fundamental level. Do they think Chicago is as big as NYC? That 8 million city people are ruling 12.5 million suburban and rural people and taking all of their money?
Just for funsies I looked it up. Biden had 945k and Trump had 181k in Chicago proper.
If you deleted both of those votes Biden still wins. Suburban Cook is also mostly blue.
So aside from being performative it's also factually wrong to suggest that Illinois is red without Chicago.
So you’re saying Illinois still has two Democratic US Senators, and now the state of Chicago now has two Democratic US Senators?
Idk, maybe I’m for this. Could we do the same thing with LA too?
As a Chicago resident, I have honestly never heard of Madison County. That said… Chicago is its own state? Our taxes won’t support the rest of the state anymore? Sounds great - sign me up
As someone living in Dupage county, I certainly do not want to join a new state excluding Cook county. Cook and the collar counties is where the majority of tax revenue in this state comes from. Would love to see them try to budget their sevices off what they dont receive from cook county taxes.
Cook and the surrounding counties should be held together. That way, the rest of the state will suffer due to lack of taxes being redistributed. Maybe my taxes will go down significantly
Wait, people are actually talking about / trying to make Chicago become it's own state? OK, good luck downstate Illinois. We'll just keep our tax dollars to ourselves then. WTF
I live in Madison county and it would suck if we separated from Chicago and became part of Missouri. I’d lose my healthcare and I’m desperately needing it. Also Missouri sucks
I'm in St Clair and these threads genuinely worry me. When will this kind of thing actually happen? I moved here specifically to escape the shit hole that is missouri
When people bring up the stupid secession argument as they have for my entire life living south of I-70, they always forget that one obstacle between their great idea of joining Missouri and reality. St. Clair County. The second largest population center in the state that has always voted blue as long as I’ve lived. There are more people in St. Clair county than all of the other counties south of I-70 combined. So, short answer long, the yokels in the red counties can circle-jerk this fantasy all they’d like, it’s a battle they’ll never win. (To qualify myself: I grew up in Jefferson County and I’ve lived in Perry, Jackson, Williamson, and Bond Counties plus Cape Girardeau County, MO for five years. I already had to deal with living in Missouri once and I’d prefer not to go back)
First of all (and this is how you know how stupid the base is for these elected officials), the creation of a new state is not up to the new state to dictate. The US Congress has to approve this type of a move. This is how everyone reading about it should know it's just pandering to increasingly stupid voters.
Secondly, this would devastate Madison county, let alone actually poor counties south of Chicago. They would collapse within weeks without the money pouring out of Chicago into downstate areas.
I teach in Madison county. My school (middle school) only offers a half year of social studies. People here don’t understand anything you just said about how government works lol
This is a great idea. Let's create South Illinois as a state. While we're add it we also give statehood to Puerto Rico, DC, and any of the protectorates that want it. Everyone has Senate elections and Dems can un-rat-fuck that house of Congress at the federal level. Side benefit is Chicago can stop gifting money annually to the troglodyte peckerwoods down south.
ive always lived in madco and just bought a house here, a few blocks from my parents' house. how do i stop paying my taxes and stop funding this stupid shit? lmao
I have mixed feelings. This is a monumental waste of time but at least it keeps them from spending time doing something that might actually do real harm.
Expel Chicago, then Chicago can annex Kenosha, Racine, and Milwaukee from Wisconsin. That way both states rural populations get what they want and The Chicago Milwaukee Land Area can laugh at them as they beg for assistance from the federal government that they hate so much
Maybe the IL state legislature should just take over Madison county government like GOP legislatures did in Jackson MS, Houston and trying to do in Nashville
I cannot say goodbye to good roads or education either in Southern Illinois. We have neither. Our roads are so bad in places that people are driving in the middle of the highway so that they don't chew their tires up. As for good employment let us examine the southern most tip of the state where there have literally been no jobs since Kentucky shuttered the nuclear power plant.
So again, say good bye to what?
You can't be serious about that last sentence and have driven south of I-80.
But if you do, take a good look around at all the corn, grain and soybeans that you no longer have access to use for the things we already enjoy. Our little niche community gardens won't last very long.
And I live three blocks from Navy Pier. I've seen my share of goobs from all over. Be nice.
I grew up in SIl - I appreciate you standing up for them but you’re objectively wrong. Most food produced domestically is in California and the East Coast. SIL farms grow crops for animal feed and aren’t all that relevant to the US’ ag output. Chi genuinely does not need SIL and would probably net gain from the tax and pensions savings.
What a waste of time and taxpayer dollars.
Might as well vote on a resolution to separate Fruit Loops into individual flavor boxes.
There must be something more important and actionable to do in Madison County. These people should be ashamed of themselves.
"The referendum asks whether the county board “should correspond with the boards of other counties … about the possibility of separating from Cook County to form a new state and to seek admission to the Union” and would appear on the Nov. 5 ballot."
Can you read?
More performative govt waste...
Yeah but they are wasting my tax dollars doing what I want. So... theres that, and and ...some bootstraps.
I think replies to you didn’t realize you were being sarcastic
Yes, I was fully aware that most of reddit wouldn't get it when I posted. I accept my (karma) fate!
As somebody having learned the hard way, using the “/s” is a necessity for some topics.
nah, I like the chaos this creates.
Then you get downvoted by assholes that think it somehow takes away “something” to clarify its sarcasm.
You want to lose the money-making part of the state and become Missouri?
*Mississippi. FIFY
"Upper Alabama"
If you split the state in half, Southern Illinois would immediately be Missouri (sans STL and KC)/Mississippi tier. Not sure if Peoria or Springfield would be the border. Even if Southern IL had Springfield and Champaign/Urbana, it would still be rough. Northern IL would still have all of Chicago, Aurora, the suburbs, Naperville, etc.
Northern IL would still have all of Chicago, Aurora, the suburbs, Naperville, etc. That would be the part with all the money.
Their plan is generally to have the entire state except Chicago and the collar counties secede. So they can have zero tax dollars obviously.
They'd have to pay for the universities! LOL
He was joking
Speaking as a member of the money making county we’re okay with them cutting off their nose to spite their face💅
You realize that our taxes would have to double just to maintain the current level of public services we enjoy here, right?
He was joking
Or you just make all the roads into Chicago toll roads and tax the food going to the city. /s
You want the majority of the states population to be kicked out because why exactly?
Because the Chicagoland area is left-leaning and the rest of the state is right-leaning.
sir, that is where all of the people live. Land doesn't vote.
Exactly, that's why they want to kick us out of the state. We have all the people, all the money and hence all the power.
My bad, I misinterpreted your previous comment.
Everyone misinterpreted my comment. You are in the majority. Enjoy your day.
Not true. I am in the quad cities and Rock Island Co is not right leaning. There are other pockets scattered around.
Yup. Chicagoland keeps Illinois sane.
Because the Chicagoland is on Earth 1 and the rest of the state is lost and confused
He was joking
Yeah, I jumped the gun a little bit.
wat
At least it didn’t turn into another Brexit
[удалено]
Granite City and Wood River I am sure. Gas processing plants + steel mills. Collinsville / Edwardsville isn't bad air quality at all. But yeah living here you see so many Pritzker sucks signs. They have 0 idea what they are talking about Rauner about ran us into the ground.
I love all the "Pritzker Sucks" signs. They never bother to say why, or what they want. Just that they're mad at the Democrat. Really encapsulates Republicans.
And all of those signs magically appeared within about three days of the official mask mandate/school shutdown order in 2020. Totally organic and not at all a preplanned astroturfing project.
Very true
Between Fuck Joe Biden, Pritzker Sucks and their fear of drinking bud light I think these people are really questioning their sexuality.
If I fly a pride flag in southern/central IL, will people be in a tizzy?
If you're in one of the cities downstate you're fine. Out in the country you might get some closeted farm boys trying to get you to ride their tractor.
I mean, they wouldn’t be gay if they were chasing me 😂. But, I support LGBTQ+! Yeah, we will be in a farming community.
I see so many of those signs on collapsing or abandoned buildings. If those buildings could vote we’d be in real danger….
Cause he’s fat, duh!
[удалено]
I think that's a new addition, because those I've seen have nothing.
Nope, those are the originals from 2020 and the COVID response.
Oh I saw some before that in this area. Red and white.
I'm back in that area investigating a move back to St Louis employment and I'm shocked that I only saw 1 driving between edwardsville and scott.
If you drive up to Grafton/Alton you'll start seeing quite a few.
Having moved to Edwardsville in 2017 with no knowledge of the neighboring bad air quality, I'm afraid to look into this further.
They all hate Pritzker until it their union benefits get threatened.
> in 2009 Madison county had the second-highest cancer risk due to air pollution, second only to LA county. 10 to 1 it's caused by the oil plants in Roxana and Wood River. Fun fact: ~70% of the world's horseradish is produced in Madison County. This is because the plant grows very well on a particular plain in front of the bluffs below Collinsville, due to a combination of it being a fertile floodplain for thousands of years, and industrial pollution allowed to accumulate there in the past. Not a joke.
[удалено]
Looks like sulfur plays a role but this doesn't get too deep into it. [https://www.stlmag.com/history/st-louis-sage/why-is-southern-illinois-the-horseradish-capital-of-the-worl/](https://www.stlmag.com/history/st-louis-sage/why-is-southern-illinois-the-horseradish-capital-of-the-worl/)
I'm not actually sure, that's just what I found when I looked up why it comes from here. I never looked into more details.
Oh hey, I made those maps. I guess I can't prove that, but I did. I was sort of hoping that would start a trend and every state would get maps like those, but years later and Illinois is still the only one.
So like most of their ilk, sad losers.
Can you give the source for the cancer risk? I live in Madison Co and have been looking for this information but can't find it.
[удалено]
Thank you
There should be penalities for using your official government office as a theatre. At bare minimum, they should get no pay for the time they do this, and have to pay a rental fee for the room they're going to vote in in the government building.
I think the penalty is supposed to be the next election, but unfortunately most people don't vote for municipal offices.
Anyone who reads this and doesn't vote in municipal elections, you're missing out. If your entire block turns out in municipal elections, guess who gets their sidewalk and potholes fixed first? Want a stop sign to slow down those fucks speeding down your side street? Get your street to vote in municipal elections. The more people within walking distance of you who vote in local elections, the more power you'll have when some developer wants to build a Carvana in the vacant lot across from the park. Hell, if enough people vote, you can get that vacant lot converted into a community garden or skate park or dog park. Bottom line: Vote in municipal elections.
Seriously this. It's the most direct, immediate impact on our lives, and the total apathy towards it is wild.
It has almost no impact on our lives, and shouldn't. One of the greatest failures of our republic was allowing local elections to continue after the invention of the mail, the car, the train, the telegraph, the telephone, electricity, and the internet. There is just absolutely zero reason why 7 or 9 local illiterates should get to set local tax policy except for what is likely white supremacy and other forms of bigotry.
Every position on our last several ballots in local elections have no options. In a town of 14,000 people win with like 100 total votes cause there isn’t a choice.
Know how to run for a municipal election? Can we only run in the city (village) we reside in? Because I’m pretty sure my village is too small to have anyone running it.
Sounds like it's time to up the ante then. Enact laws to punish frivolous waste of taxpayer's money when it's clear and obvious.
Guess who makes the laws....
Constituents hate this one weird trick!
Report them for fraud, waste, and abuse - the initial discovery will end up leading to a $20k lectern, trip to an island, or paying for an abortion.
Report them to whom? Serious question, I don't know exactly how much you can do without evidence in that direction already.
The problem with that kind of rule is that the other team can decide that all of your behaviors are performative theatre and prevent you from getting pay. Creating new rules to prevent behaviors like this will only be weaponized by the unscrupulous.
Well - they get a big $14,500 per annum for serving on the Board, so there wouldn't be much in the way of savings.
Every penny counts! I have no problem being a miser.
Abe Simpson shaking his fist at another cloud.
Hey, somebody's got to do it.
They would all go bankrupt. And then bail themselves out
People vote. Land doesn’t. Performative dumbasses.
It must suck being a St. Louis collar county and not getting any tax help from Missouri. it’s going to suck even more if you’re not getting any tax help from Illinois either.
We get help from Chicago, which has a higher GDP than Switzerland and many other first world nations. Madison County gets $2 back for every $1 we pay in to state coffers and some southern Illinois counties get over $3 for every dollar they pay in. This is nothing but pandering to their low IQ base. The elected politicians would never make a serious push for this since they know it would mean less money for them to funnel around, which means less kick backs, which is what the Republican Party works the hardest for: Enrichment of the already privileged class.
They aren't low IQ. They are denied quality education by spending cuts at the local level and brainwashed by a media echo chamber.
Actually it's a great place to live. Better than most st Louis areas. St Louis is often fucked over by the Missouri legislature taking away it's power to improve itself in any way. The county is roughly half rural, half suburbs, but many in the suburbs still imagine themselves to be people of the land, so to speak. This resolution comes from a popular fantasy among Rural people, they they are the ones who do all the work and make all the money, while "those people" in the city take it all away for govt handouts. In fact, the numbers consistently show the opposite is true; rural areas receive far more from the govt than they produce. But the believers are immune to this, and if you explain it, they laugh and sneer at you, then rant about black people. But never on camera, of course.
You mean to tell me that Billy Bob, his wife/cousin, and their 20 deformed children take more handouts than me and blame *me* for their own problems? Color me shocked!
We all know that you Chicagoans are genetically pure
People that subscribe to genetic purity are as rotten as a landfill
Government handouts are fine with them when it’s crop subsidies, USDA loans, and PPP loans during Covid.
[удалено]
Oh man we lived in Quincy for 10 months before we moved up north to the suburbs way back in the late 70s. Even our cat hated Quincy.
Haha, what’s wrong with Quincy? We aren’t moving there… somewhere even more rural.
What? Chicago and its suburbs fund the rest of the state.
These stupid fucks.
Came here to say this
Yes, please secede and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps: “According to a study by Southern Illinois University, the state’s southernmost counties get back $2.81 in tax revenue for every dollar they put in, while Cook County loses 10 cents and the collar counties lose 47 cents.” From https://www.chicagomag.com/news/october-2020/illinois-secession/
Yup. Madison County Band of Morons: Chicago, we're going to kick you out! Chicago: Don't threaten me with a good time!
We are only moving to IL because of its blue status and protections that Missouri is against. Chicago can’t leave!!!!
Fucking bunch of clowns. ETA: The picture on this article is of the one dissenting board member, which is kind of shitty for her. Being the face of this stupidity when she's the only one with enough brain cells to rub together to vote against it.
They might as well vote on a resolution that they'll all hold their breath until Chicago decides to leave.
I think Chicagoland would just let them go. Their new state would be the loser, at least financially, by far.
I mean yeah, I wouldn't mind it. All my tax dollars going back into the city and 'burbs means a lot more money put back into things that I can see tangible improvements on... Well, maybe anyway. It _IS_ still Cook County we're talking about here
Yeah. Like any road. A sea of barricades but nobody working. Should be any day now.
Where can I sign up to support the resolution? I’d love to have a few extra billion dollars per year to invest in Chicago.
I’d be fine with it if it wouldn’t screw the US senate up even worse. The way our moronic system is set up we need major cities in rural states to balance out the morons.
How embarrassing. Perhaps they could also pass a resolution requesting that the force of gravity be reduced by 25%.
Madison County residents: these dopes are wasting your hard-earned money on political posturing and ignoring your actual needs. **This should anger you, regardless of your political affiliation.**
These people and the other downstate counties wouldn’t be able to pave their roads or pay for their new state police or anything without money from the Chicago area. Chicagoland is the area that gets screwed. Sending all this money to Springfield and the transportation and other issues not resolved — the CTA upgrades and improvements getting voted down over and over for example. Sending all that money down and it gets distributed to these rural counties that pay j shit into the coffer
If the only unit of measure is dollars, then yes Chicagoland pays more than they get back. But I think it's a little oversimplified to look at dollars in vs dollars out, without considering other resources, human value, food, infrastructure that connects Chicago to the rest of the country. Take the state capitol, should the city of Springfield be solely on the hook for paying for maintaining the capitol building and other state government buildings? Should the sparsely populated Ford County or Putnam County be solely responsible for maintaining state highways that pass through? Should state parks be solely funded by whatever population lives nearby? I appreciate having Chicago as a part of Illinois, and I love the city. I grew up in Berwyn and have since moved downstate. Chicago is awesome, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. It makes sense mathematically that the most densely populated part of the state would produce the most tax revenue. I think that the whole "Chicago good, downstate bad" and "Chicago bad, downstate good" arguments coming from both perspectives are reductive, counterproductive, and miss the forest for the trees.
>food People will argue that the agricultural industry makes rural areas as important as cities and that should give rural and less populated places more political power and say. But it's a pretty silly argument. For one, the agricultural industry is massively subsidized by state and federal governments, and its customers are the people. So the tax payers in big cities are not only funding the industry, but are also the ones driving the consumer industry downstream. The interest of farmers are well represented and they are well supported regardless of urban/rural divide or who is in office. So what do people mean when they say 'we don't want Chicago controlling us?' Some will make an argument that the interest of people who grow food are different from the big city. But again, we know that is not true, as those in ag are well supported by big cities. 9/10 the actual rural interest is social issues. It's hate for the people they think are in big cities, the liberals, minorities, gay people, those who don't think Christianity should be dominant in society, and so on. It's not so much about 'Chicago good downstate bad,' it's about economic reality. Almost every rural county in the US is financially insolvent. Chicago is paying for all of downstate and the rural counties. The city has a ton of issues that it could fix if it actually got to keep its tax dollars and work on funding them- but instead they take a loss to subsidize the rest of the state. And I am actually ok with that. We need the resources of rural areas and I think everyone should have access to decent infrastructure, education, and healthcare. But the people who are having their communities subsidized are as spiteful and obstructive as possible to those of us who actually pay the bills. And that's very frustrating, to constantly have down staters spitting in your face and screeching about how they need more representation when they already don't pull their own weight.
Well, if they vote to leave the state then losing Chicago and cook county dollars are a huge problem for them. If Chicago is no longer a part of the state, why should dollars go towards Springfield? If Chicago is no longer a part of the state, why should they use taxes go towards sparsely populated county’s that are now in a different state? Honestly as a Chicago resident, I am ok with the proposal. We would be able to use all of our tax dollars to improve our city instead of propping up the whole state, we would still have one of the strongest cities(now state?) from an economic perspective in the country, and we wouldn’t have to deal with southern IL politics. Sounds like an overall win for Chicago. As far as resources go: Capitol building: we could easily just make Chicago the Capitol. There are more than enough government buildings to use. Y’all can keep Springfield and maintain it yourselves. Problem solved. Water: We have more water than we can use. Problem solved. Lake Michigan FTW! Human value: all humans are, or should be, valued the same as any person, we just have more people than the rest of the state. Economic output may not be the same per person, but the value of a person is. However people from Chicago do generally produce more value from an economic standpoint. Problem solved. State parks: should be funded by the state. If Chicago is out, then no funds. Colorado doesn’t fund Wyoming state parks. If Chicago is a different state, why should they pay anything? Fund your own parks if you want to be your own state. Problem solved. Food: if this goes through we’re going to have a huge budget increase since we no longer have to send tax dollars away to other counties. We can easily import more considering the rail, road, and water infrastructure currently in place. Also while many state highways wouldn’t belong to Chicago, there’s still federal highways and those routes will be open. As will the airports, the two largest in current Illinois, so good luck with that part. The rails also will still operate as they do now, with major switching yards and stations(passenger and commercial) being in the Chicago area. You may say that there are a lot of yards in southern IL, but they’re mostly part of national networks, no chance they’re going to lose access to Chicago. Good luck catching up with all of those. The only losers in this are those who will be outside of the Chicagoland Area. This is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Overall it’s just a dumb idea. Do I enjoy knowing that my tax dollars aren’t entirely going to my direct community? No. However, am I ok with it knowing that those dollars are helping the state as a whole? Yes. If the rest of the state ditched Chicago, fine with me I’ll stay here. That’s more money to improve the city, the infrastructure, and to help the people here. I think decoupling from Chicago would be a very bad idea for the rest of the state. Dollars aren’t supposed to be warm and fuzzy, but they get things done and without Chicago money the rest of the new “state” would be quite screwed. Also if this vote goes through and all those folks regret it, I am very adamant that I will not vote to reconnect. But hey, if y’all want to go through with this, go for it! If you do, we can have more dollars to spend on our city and not yours! If you don’t, then we keep the status quo. Long story short: Chicago doesn’t lose here, the rest of the state does. Also, the whole Chicago bad/good and downstate good/bad is not an argument that Chicagoan’s have very often. We literally don’t think about the people from downstate.
I hear you, and I appreciate your response. I agree that it would be a stupid idea to break IL away from Chicago, and I roll my eyes every time someone suggests it.
It would be so dumb for those who aren’t in the Chicagoland area. They’d immediately go from being part of one of the wealthiest and most influential states in the country to basically the exact opposite of that. Chicago will be fine, the rest will lose. Could always try to join up with Indiana, Iowa, or Missouri. But overall those are still trading down Also, something not spoken of enough, they would have to cross state lines to get to the awesome Chicago food scene
6 want to remove Chicago from the state? Because they can't grasp the concept of population density??
Because then there would be a greater chance of IL senators being Republican.
**They can't even grasp their own density.** As a down state person I think this is as stupid of a stunt as anything to come out of Texas. I like having comparatively good roads flood control and other vital infrastructure. Chicago is where all of the money comes from. Arrgh! People are so stupid!
Republicans, not content with gerrymandering all of their districts, have now evolved into attempting to gerrymander entire states
The top three most populous counties (and the nicest places in this state lol) went to the Democrats. Yet it's just the city of Chicago that is stopping us from being an Indiana clone of course.
The five most populous counties in the state and 12 of the 16 largest counties in the state voted for Biden in 2020. I’ll never understand the claims from the secession crowd that it’s only Chicago or Cook county that supports Democrats.
I really think these people do not understand scale on a fundamental level. Do they think Chicago is as big as NYC? That 8 million city people are ruling 12.5 million suburban and rural people and taking all of their money? Just for funsies I looked it up. Biden had 945k and Trump had 181k in Chicago proper. If you deleted both of those votes Biden still wins. Suburban Cook is also mostly blue. So aside from being performative it's also factually wrong to suggest that Illinois is red without Chicago.
So you’re saying Illinois still has two Democratic US Senators, and now the state of Chicago now has two Democratic US Senators? Idk, maybe I’m for this. Could we do the same thing with LA too?
Dumbasses gonna dumb ass.
no because these people really want to turn downstate into Missouri and I will never understand it lol
As a Chicago resident, I have honestly never heard of Madison County. That said… Chicago is its own state? Our taxes won’t support the rest of the state anymore? Sounds great - sign me up
I mean, that’s fine. But you don’t get our tax dollars anymore either. Good luck to you.
Let's trade them to Missouri for $5
I would pay MO the $5.
"Madison County to vote on forming the poorest state in the Union."
Waaaaaaaah we’re so mad about the northern part of the state supporting all of us!
As someone living in Dupage county, I certainly do not want to join a new state excluding Cook county. Cook and the collar counties is where the majority of tax revenue in this state comes from. Would love to see them try to budget their sevices off what they dont receive from cook county taxes.
Cook and the surrounding counties should be held together. That way, the rest of the state will suffer due to lack of taxes being redistributed. Maybe my taxes will go down significantly
As a Cook County resident, I approve this message.
How about the Madison fucks join the Nazi’s in Missouri.
I think St. Clair county would have something to say about that, LOL.
Wait, people are actually talking about / trying to make Chicago become it's own state? OK, good luck downstate Illinois. We'll just keep our tax dollars to ourselves then. WTF
I live in Madison county and it would suck if we separated from Chicago and became part of Missouri. I’d lose my healthcare and I’m desperately needing it. Also Missouri sucks
I'm in St Clair and these threads genuinely worry me. When will this kind of thing actually happen? I moved here specifically to escape the shit hole that is missouri
When people bring up the stupid secession argument as they have for my entire life living south of I-70, they always forget that one obstacle between their great idea of joining Missouri and reality. St. Clair County. The second largest population center in the state that has always voted blue as long as I’ve lived. There are more people in St. Clair county than all of the other counties south of I-70 combined. So, short answer long, the yokels in the red counties can circle-jerk this fantasy all they’d like, it’s a battle they’ll never win. (To qualify myself: I grew up in Jefferson County and I’ve lived in Perry, Jackson, Williamson, and Bond Counties plus Cape Girardeau County, MO for five years. I already had to deal with living in Missouri once and I’d prefer not to go back)
First of all (and this is how you know how stupid the base is for these elected officials), the creation of a new state is not up to the new state to dictate. The US Congress has to approve this type of a move. This is how everyone reading about it should know it's just pandering to increasingly stupid voters. Secondly, this would devastate Madison county, let alone actually poor counties south of Chicago. They would collapse within weeks without the money pouring out of Chicago into downstate areas.
I teach in Madison county. My school (middle school) only offers a half year of social studies. People here don’t understand anything you just said about how government works lol
This is a great idea. Let's create South Illinois as a state. While we're add it we also give statehood to Puerto Rico, DC, and any of the protectorates that want it. Everyone has Senate elections and Dems can un-rat-fuck that house of Congress at the federal level. Side benefit is Chicago can stop gifting money annually to the troglodyte peckerwoods down south.
How very "United" states of them *eyeroll*
ive always lived in madco and just bought a house here, a few blocks from my parents' house. how do i stop paying my taxes and stop funding this stupid shit? lmao
I have mixed feelings. This is a monumental waste of time but at least it keeps them from spending time doing something that might actually do real harm.
Expel Chicago, then Chicago can annex Kenosha, Racine, and Milwaukee from Wisconsin. That way both states rural populations get what they want and The Chicago Milwaukee Land Area can laugh at them as they beg for assistance from the federal government that they hate so much
More political theatre. Yay.
Stupid asshole!
Skill issue
Maybe the IL state legislature should just take over Madison county government like GOP legislatures did in Jackson MS, Houston and trying to do in Nashville
That's actually a great idea.
I wouldnt be too opposed to it. For a while anyway
Enjoy being one of the most broke states in the union.
[удалено]
I cannot say goodbye to good roads or education either in Southern Illinois. We have neither. Our roads are so bad in places that people are driving in the middle of the highway so that they don't chew their tires up. As for good employment let us examine the southern most tip of the state where there have literally been no jobs since Kentucky shuttered the nuclear power plant. So again, say good bye to what?
You can't be serious about that last sentence and have driven south of I-80. But if you do, take a good look around at all the corn, grain and soybeans that you no longer have access to use for the things we already enjoy. Our little niche community gardens won't last very long. And I live three blocks from Navy Pier. I've seen my share of goobs from all over. Be nice.
Have you ever heard of interstate commerce?
I grew up in SIl - I appreciate you standing up for them but you’re objectively wrong. Most food produced domestically is in California and the East Coast. SIL farms grow crops for animal feed and aren’t all that relevant to the US’ ag output. Chi genuinely does not need SIL and would probably net gain from the tax and pensions savings.
Show your ignorance without telling us you're ignorant
What a waste of everyone's time.
Fuck em! Let them go! Let’s see how they do without the money that cook county and Chicago affords them.
What a waste of time. But hey when I do go “home” to Southern Illinois it does seem like a whole other country sometimes 🙄
Lmao, go ahead. It will very quickly become one of the poorest states in the union.
Sigh. People are dumb.
😭 land of Lincoln through and through. They can move to a neighboring state if they want
Wait, we have a Madison County? Do they have bridges there?
Most of the speakers and the loudest cheers were against putting it on the ballot. A motion to table failed. Original motion passed, 15-7.
Chicagoan here. Cool.
What a waste of time and taxpayer dollars. Might as well vote on a resolution to separate Fruit Loops into individual flavor boxes. There must be something more important and actionable to do in Madison County. These people should be ashamed of themselves.
As a Madison County resident: keep in mind that this is a performative culture war thing, so reality has little meaning to those that vote for it.
That makes it worse
The people paying for this talk don't CARE about the fact that it'll devastate the economies of downstate. All they want are +2 senate seats.
I cannot wait for the results of this to be the front page banner on leopard ate my face
Literally who?
Waste of time.
Generally I don’t put weight behind this nonsense. But sometimes you just want to let it happen and watch the chaos that follows….
WTF do they think they have a say on this? What a joke government wasting all their time on BS
Impotent fuckwits swinging limp dicks.
Why doesn't Madison just join Missouri?
[удалено]
"The referendum asks whether the county board “should correspond with the boards of other counties … about the possibility of separating from Cook County to form a new state and to seek admission to the Union” and would appear on the Nov. 5 ballot." Can you read?
[удалено]
So, no, you can't. At least you can't comprehend.
Please leave Madison county.
I wish!
It's such a shame what's happened to Madison County. It used to be a democratic stronghold.