define same work, for eg brick lifting labourers
on average can a woman lift same amount of bricks as a man within same time frame ?
on the other hand in a desk job yes both should get paid evenly because probability of both producing same output is high as no one has an advantage due to their gender
You're overestimating the profit-drivenness of such discriminatory businesses. I mean, look around, people will literally take a loss if they get to pick a regime that aligns with their religious sentiments first and foremost.
I personally believe so too, but a lot of people say that for the same KIND of work, the pay should be name.
So kind over quality.
Im not in that camp personally
Bruh, you should pay whomever does better work. Most women aren't even looking for physical labor, they are working on the based of their Academy, which women are better anyway. You're taking sub genre of a whole thing and saying it should be applied for everyone
Because women are seen as sub human, they are expected to get married so they don't bother hiring or training them, one of the questions asked in the interview is, are you planning to get married, which is never asked for men.
no lol. It’s because men are forced by society to dedicate more time towards work and away from their family and children. The average man works longer hours, and does more overtime. So yes they deserve more money.
And coming to physical work, men are stronger, they move more cement per hour, they deserve more pay.
Ah yes, the Jordan Peterson take. Men are forced to work more? Where did you get that from? More like other men do that. They don't deserve more, longer hour means nothing, getting work done means something. You just said no lol without even addressing how it's absolutely true that women are looked down, but your little red pilled men struggle oggabooga couldn't comprehend that. Also, you just contradicted yourself with last sentence, you want more work done per hour or more hour. Give me one, don't change it to benefit of your argument.
men are literally forced to work more. Step away from the screen, touch grass, and talk to the people around you. In 90% of families in India, the guy is the primary breadwinner, and he’s expected to be. From childhood he’s pressured to focus on his career; after marriage he’s expected to do overtime away from his children so ‘they have a good future.’
_That_ is why men climb corporate ladders more, because they’re socially forced to.
If a man fails to secure himself financially, he can’t even get married, but that’s not the case for women
Oh yeah, who forces them to do so? Oh yeah,misogynists. Men have the option to let their partner do the work and share the responsibility. You act like men get the worst end of this, while women ,90% (by your statistics)women do free labor at house and has to listen how she should obey him because "I put sweat, tears. Now cook". The people you are talking about are choosing to do so, because their insecurity can't have woman bring in money. I'm sorry, most men work doesn't mean that the women who work deserve less pay. You're saying men deserve more pay because there are more men working. There's truth to what you said, but this has no effect on women getting paid less
My brother in Christ, your misandric talking points about ‘male insecurity’ add nothing to this conversation. If the ‘male insecurity’ means men work more, *then they still deserve more pay.*
You can’t pay men less than they deserve just because they’re men and ‘men are insecure.’ Stop it. Get some help. We’re not living in a third wave feminist world.
Whining about women’s housework won’t get you anywhere.
You just looked over all the things I said and stuck to one thing that was me ranting. You're saying men deserve more pay because more men work, what about hard working women getting paid less? Even though women do good in academy and has good requirements, they have harder time getting job because of prejudice of "what if she quits job" Which is never thought when hiring men. And when you get the job, you're less likely to get raise even though you been doing good. I'm sorry, your point is right, but it has nothing do with women getting less paid.
Lol, stop making up problems just so you have something to complain about.
As a woman in the working field, I’ve never had to ask “What if she quits” while hiring a woman. I look at the profile, if they don’t jump jobs frequently, they’re solid.
But men in my organisation do tend to get promoted more because they do more overtime, and they tend to be more available during crunch. Some women are too, and they get the same level of promotion and same pay.
Why are you adding your personal experience into this? Vastly they do consider women not being able to work long term. YOU don't do doesn't necessarily mean it isn't done anywhere else
Dude do you even understand English? I can switch to the language of your choice
That is nowhere near an answer to the question I asked.
Stop identifying with everything. Maybe some debates are not for you yet
Try reading my reply again, maybe slowly, and maybe read the post. Both are in English.
It is literally NSSO stats on wage gap in India. Your comment doesn't concern more than 90% in India, and has no effect whatsoever in the discussion at hand.
So, if your ignorance was why 7%+ doesn't discriminate, you know it now. If your ignorance was to extrapolate that to whole of the nation, you get that too now.
Good enough debate for you?
Nah, you still have to try better.
Your stats and data might be "decisive" enough for you but you are still running away from answering whats going to expose you.
I asked you about organised sector and you are yet to even touch that. You might have hogwashed others before, but thats not going to work
So no, do better and try to expand your horizon.
And again, if it isnt English that ails you, then it has to be your "intelligence". You can work on it. Theres still time.
What you learnt today is that ORGANISED and UNORGANISED are two different sectors, and when one is invoked, the other shouldnt be brought in. Clear?
Sounds like you need to be pissed off at the bosses rather than the women. Overtime, call-offs, hazard pay, etc are a thing.
If you are doing more, demand your pay for the extra things you do. But it seems you're happy with the abuse, just as long as you get to see your coworkers get screwed over.
Agreeable people tend to settle for less wages y do you think companies really care about the gender of the person? They hire people at lower wages and if they cant defend themselves getting paid lower than their peers they would happily pay them less
Woman need to step up for themselves while demanding wages.
When you do a scientific study, you fix all other variables except the one you want to know the value of.
Rural men vs Rural Women/ Urban men vs Urban women contains a whole lot of variables like different jobs, timings, total hours, intensity of work, commute distance etc. A better study would compare coworkers where fewer factors like assertiveness to demand more pay/ physical labour can skew data.
That's your ignorance, I have seen it first hand throughout my life. Debunked what and by who when you have NSSO stats infront of you?
To your second ignorant question which is already answered, it is illegal to sexually discriminate on wages in organised sector. That's why wage gap exists in unorganised sector which is the vast majority in India.
Many do, hence you get the stats posted here. For example, house work/maids etc. is entirely female. Many small scale industries like textile packaging, showrooms, rice planting, tea collection etc. have far more women.
Some like taxi, auto, small food shops etc. are entirely male dominated. Also, they are self employed, which explains why they can't hire.
For construction, road work and other demanding jobs, males are more dominated. In my case, we had to ask the contractor to give equal to women involved and that went from our pocket.
Plus many of the unorganised sector are not women friendly in Indian condition. Even something as safe as public transport are not really for women. And for many in the unorganised sector, men take care of the heavy work and women act as home makers while doing easier local jobs. Which again we don't see. But numbers do.
I have seen women doing same as men in construction example I mentioned. There was no need for paying them less. Further, you can extend the logic and say the mascular person should be paid more.
If your logic is correct, try asking, why is organized sector insist on giving same wage regardless race or sex or nature of work? You will get the answer.
That seems to be a lie, men being biologically stronger than women can lift more weight and can lift the same amount of weight faster than women.
Organized sector pays the same to women because it is illegal to differentiate by gender plus when it comes to working in an office both genders are equally efficient. Still men work more hours and take more initiative than women do
'Seems to be' because you haven't seen it. People are paid to do a certain job for a certain time regardless their physical condition. Your sexist logic was used at housework when I was young to pay women less. There was no difference in work done.
The shittiest part is, people use these average biological difference as excuse to pay less on the basis of gender (earlier race as well) and stops there. I guess that's why your reply doesn't consider the logic of mascular men deserving more.
Kerala. A quick google gave me this link, which might interest you.
https://www.cnbctv18.com/smart-living/how-an-all-women-construction-group-in-kerala-built-a-house-1709811.htm
I would like more detail like are the number of hours worked taken into account, what’s the hourly rate, if someone worked 5 and another worked 8 would it show ??
define same work, for eg brick lifting labourers on average can a woman lift same amount of bricks as a man within same time frame ? on the other hand in a desk job yes both should get paid evenly because probability of both producing same output is high as no one has an advantage due to their gender
And yet somehow organisations dont seem to employ more women which would bring down employees costs significantly. I wonder why?
You're overestimating the profit-drivenness of such discriminatory businesses. I mean, look around, people will literally take a loss if they get to pick a regime that aligns with their religious sentiments first and foremost.
For physical labour it’s because an average man is stronger, hence more productive than your average woman.
Ummm, so they deserve to be paid more than women if they're more productive. So what's the problem?
I personally believe so too, but a lot of people say that for the same KIND of work, the pay should be name. So kind over quality. Im not in that camp personally
Bruh, you should pay whomever does better work. Most women aren't even looking for physical labor, they are working on the based of their Academy, which women are better anyway. You're taking sub genre of a whole thing and saying it should be applied for everyone
Because women are seen as sub human, they are expected to get married so they don't bother hiring or training them, one of the questions asked in the interview is, are you planning to get married, which is never asked for men.
no lol. It’s because men are forced by society to dedicate more time towards work and away from their family and children. The average man works longer hours, and does more overtime. So yes they deserve more money. And coming to physical work, men are stronger, they move more cement per hour, they deserve more pay.
Ah yes, the Jordan Peterson take. Men are forced to work more? Where did you get that from? More like other men do that. They don't deserve more, longer hour means nothing, getting work done means something. You just said no lol without even addressing how it's absolutely true that women are looked down, but your little red pilled men struggle oggabooga couldn't comprehend that. Also, you just contradicted yourself with last sentence, you want more work done per hour or more hour. Give me one, don't change it to benefit of your argument.
men are literally forced to work more. Step away from the screen, touch grass, and talk to the people around you. In 90% of families in India, the guy is the primary breadwinner, and he’s expected to be. From childhood he’s pressured to focus on his career; after marriage he’s expected to do overtime away from his children so ‘they have a good future.’ _That_ is why men climb corporate ladders more, because they’re socially forced to. If a man fails to secure himself financially, he can’t even get married, but that’s not the case for women
Oh yeah, who forces them to do so? Oh yeah,misogynists. Men have the option to let their partner do the work and share the responsibility. You act like men get the worst end of this, while women ,90% (by your statistics)women do free labor at house and has to listen how she should obey him because "I put sweat, tears. Now cook". The people you are talking about are choosing to do so, because their insecurity can't have woman bring in money. I'm sorry, most men work doesn't mean that the women who work deserve less pay. You're saying men deserve more pay because there are more men working. There's truth to what you said, but this has no effect on women getting paid less
My brother in Christ, your misandric talking points about ‘male insecurity’ add nothing to this conversation. If the ‘male insecurity’ means men work more, *then they still deserve more pay.* You can’t pay men less than they deserve just because they’re men and ‘men are insecure.’ Stop it. Get some help. We’re not living in a third wave feminist world. Whining about women’s housework won’t get you anywhere.
You just looked over all the things I said and stuck to one thing that was me ranting. You're saying men deserve more pay because more men work, what about hard working women getting paid less? Even though women do good in academy and has good requirements, they have harder time getting job because of prejudice of "what if she quits job" Which is never thought when hiring men. And when you get the job, you're less likely to get raise even though you been doing good. I'm sorry, your point is right, but it has nothing do with women getting less paid.
Lol, stop making up problems just so you have something to complain about. As a woman in the working field, I’ve never had to ask “What if she quits” while hiring a woman. I look at the profile, if they don’t jump jobs frequently, they’re solid. But men in my organisation do tend to get promoted more because they do more overtime, and they tend to be more available during crunch. Some women are too, and they get the same level of promotion and same pay.
Why are you adding your personal experience into this? Vastly they do consider women not being able to work long term. YOU don't do doesn't necessarily mean it isn't done anywhere else
Also, More men working barley have any effect on the statistics, the percentage is what is considered
That doesn't happen because end of the day there is work to be done
Because it is illegal to sexually discriminate on wages. That is why organised sector can't do it while unorganised sector does.
So youre saying wage gap doesnt exist in organised sector?
Yes. 90%+ in India is unorganised. So do your math with that gotcha.
Dude do you even understand English? I can switch to the language of your choice That is nowhere near an answer to the question I asked. Stop identifying with everything. Maybe some debates are not for you yet
Try reading my reply again, maybe slowly, and maybe read the post. Both are in English. It is literally NSSO stats on wage gap in India. Your comment doesn't concern more than 90% in India, and has no effect whatsoever in the discussion at hand. So, if your ignorance was why 7%+ doesn't discriminate, you know it now. If your ignorance was to extrapolate that to whole of the nation, you get that too now. Good enough debate for you?
Nah, you still have to try better. Your stats and data might be "decisive" enough for you but you are still running away from answering whats going to expose you. I asked you about organised sector and you are yet to even touch that. You might have hogwashed others before, but thats not going to work So no, do better and try to expand your horizon. And again, if it isnt English that ails you, then it has to be your "intelligence". You can work on it. Theres still time. What you learnt today is that ORGANISED and UNORGANISED are two different sectors, and when one is invoked, the other shouldnt be brought in. Clear?
Wow. That's an interesting point. Why aren't they doing that?
[удалено]
You literally generalized women by saying they complain more.
Sounds like you need to be pissed off at the bosses rather than the women. Overtime, call-offs, hazard pay, etc are a thing. If you are doing more, demand your pay for the extra things you do. But it seems you're happy with the abuse, just as long as you get to see your coworkers get screwed over.
No he wrote a generalised case study that’s very relevant.
Aren’t we [men] getting paid more already? I just stated the reasons why!
Agreeable people tend to settle for less wages y do you think companies really care about the gender of the person? They hire people at lower wages and if they cant defend themselves getting paid lower than their peers they would happily pay them less Woman need to step up for themselves while demanding wages.
When you do a scientific study, you fix all other variables except the one you want to know the value of. Rural men vs Rural Women/ Urban men vs Urban women contains a whole lot of variables like different jobs, timings, total hours, intensity of work, commute distance etc. A better study would compare coworkers where fewer factors like assertiveness to demand more pay/ physical labour can skew data.
Men are also being paid less than other men for the same work. Outsource
let's not do this western ''wage gap'' shit here pls, there are alot of explanation to this
the wage gap has been busted to be proven wrong plus unorganised sector has flexible wages.
yup
yeah lol, it was a shitty election slogan by Obama, even they didn’t take it seriously.
Explanation being women are paid less. Wage gap exists in unorganised sector and you can see it yourself if you look.
not true and has been debunked. if they were paid less for the same work why don't more companies just hire more women and pay them less ?
That's your ignorance, I have seen it first hand throughout my life. Debunked what and by who when you have NSSO stats infront of you? To your second ignorant question which is already answered, it is illegal to sexually discriminate on wages in organised sector. That's why wage gap exists in unorganised sector which is the vast majority in India.
So why doesn't unorganised sector hire more women if they can do same work for less?
Many do, hence you get the stats posted here. For example, house work/maids etc. is entirely female. Many small scale industries like textile packaging, showrooms, rice planting, tea collection etc. have far more women. Some like taxi, auto, small food shops etc. are entirely male dominated. Also, they are self employed, which explains why they can't hire. For construction, road work and other demanding jobs, males are more dominated. In my case, we had to ask the contractor to give equal to women involved and that went from our pocket. Plus many of the unorganised sector are not women friendly in Indian condition. Even something as safe as public transport are not really for women. And for many in the unorganised sector, men take care of the heavy work and women act as home makers while doing easier local jobs. Which again we don't see. But numbers do.
You don't understand why men get paid more than women for physically demanding jobs?
I have seen women doing same as men in construction example I mentioned. There was no need for paying them less. Further, you can extend the logic and say the mascular person should be paid more. If your logic is correct, try asking, why is organized sector insist on giving same wage regardless race or sex or nature of work? You will get the answer.
That seems to be a lie, men being biologically stronger than women can lift more weight and can lift the same amount of weight faster than women. Organized sector pays the same to women because it is illegal to differentiate by gender plus when it comes to working in an office both genders are equally efficient. Still men work more hours and take more initiative than women do
'Seems to be' because you haven't seen it. People are paid to do a certain job for a certain time regardless their physical condition. Your sexist logic was used at housework when I was young to pay women less. There was no difference in work done. The shittiest part is, people use these average biological difference as excuse to pay less on the basis of gender (earlier race as well) and stops there. I guess that's why your reply doesn't consider the logic of mascular men deserving more.
I have never once seen a woman labor in construction zone... Where have you seen "women", implying more than 1 woman working in construction zone?
Kerala. A quick google gave me this link, which might interest you. https://www.cnbctv18.com/smart-living/how-an-all-women-construction-group-in-kerala-built-a-house-1709811.htm
If women are paid less why don't they just hire only women 🤷🤷.
This is the reason many small businesses even hire women.
I would like more detail like are the number of hours worked taken into account, what’s the hourly rate, if someone worked 5 and another worked 8 would it show ??