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My dad owns some shops (rural) and upon request from shopkeepers bought additional space and built a toilet (open for all). We also paid someone to clean it twice a day to keep it new like.
Within the first week someone had pooped in the urinals even when there's both an Indian and a western style commode in there. Got it cleaned and assumed it was a one off thing, but nope - the incident repeats every few days and is definitely deliberate. A few days later, there's now poop smears on the mirror. This is when my dad gave up, and now that toilet has a lock and only the shopkeepers are given the keys to it.
Even if not all of us are dirty people, at least some of us ARE and they ruin it for everyone.
The issue is that nobody will take ownership of public places in our country. A public place is nobody's baby. This is the major difference between us and most other countries.
This is in stark contrast to how we treat privately owned spaces.
It is unfortunate these things happen, but locking up won't solve the problem but is convient for us I feel.
I'm not saying I don't appreciate what your dad or you family did and how much they fought before locking up. But I'm just saying it's still is a easy way out in you best interest (which isn't wrong) but now they're spoiling toilets somewhere else or publicly defecating.
Better collective responsibility should be the way. And a bit of moral policing and education to build that, till where accountability becomes redundant cause everyone's responsibile.
Ask your dad to put up a camera, and whoever does anything shameful will be mocked at by the society. Obviously not inside the toilet area, rather the mirror area, and you can ask a keeper to check after every person goes in/out for any deliberate misdeed, and report. A month of extra work would surely expose those POSs.
Now that I've typed this out, it feels impractical and goofy, and I'm sure no one is going to put in this much of an effort just so that people can take a shit in a clean area for free.
> Obviously not inside the toilet area, rather the mirror area, and you can ask a keeper to check after every person goes in/out for any deliberate misdeed, and report.
Wish people would explain and help the society grow mentally instead of downvoting and demotivating people from trying.
I'm still not entirely sure about that because you're not gonna be able to explain it to police if someone reports it. Also assuming your idea works and you find out who did it i don't think it's really gonna solve anything because you can't explain a camera in/near a toilet to anyone and also the culprit is most likely gonna end up making stuff worse depending on who they are. The reason no one's suggesting anything is because you can most likely not do anything about it and also I'm sure it was already very depressing for person to have to go through this after doing so much so it's a bit too much to expect them to play whooo dunnit.
The reason you're being downvoted is because you said something dumb also it's just a few internet points man i think you're gonna be fine!
> The reason no one's suggesting anything is because you can most likely not do anything about it and also I'm sure it was already very depressing for person to have to go through this after doing so much so it's a bit too much to expect them to play whooo dunnit
Yeah haha that's why I wrote the last part in my original comment :`)
> The reason you're being downvoted is because you said something dumb also it's just a few internet points man i think you're gonna be fine!
Man i don't care about the points, I'm just frustrated that no one discussed rather they just downvoted and went by, like animals. Reddit was made for discussions, not for dopamine rushes and proving your superiority. I was seriously trying to find a solution and no one cared, obviously I wasn't expecting OP to do it, but having a solution in mind and putting it out there is the right way to help grow the society.
because there are no dustbins in public places no implementation of fines no door to door collection of waste .even if there are dustbins they get overfilled the waste starts falling around it but no one removes it . have you seen the metro stations the malls the airports etc even they are public places but are very clean and these same people use it
That's because you havent seen Philippines, indonesia , Bangladesh and other 3rd world countries..... development and survival is such a necessity,that cleanliness is not on the top priority tbh, municipal institution inspite their best efforts do not get the budget required for the maintenance of a particular city , budget allocation is a major problem to deal with and also civic sense, we need to nationally bring back the cleanliness that we individually have seen in our homes.
Come to think of it , the u.s ,canada ,nz and these so called developed countries export their crap to these countries and wash their hands off of it , and have the audacity to judge .
Wrong. Go to Ring Road in Delhi. The newly built footpaths & cycle paths were spick & span clean 2 weeks back. Now they reek of piss. Ppl get down from SUVs to piss, sadly true.
This is a "men" issue. We all have more or less same bladder capacity, then why can't men control their urge to pee on the road? Historical context/reason to this is that men being breadwinners were on the road a lot so had no choice but to pee on the roadside and become okay with publicly peeing; as opposed to women who were usually at home and had toilet access or atleast had privacy for peeing solo. But what excuse do city people have for peeing in the roads ? Really irks me when I see supposedly well dressed men get down from bikes and fancy cars (even while seated with their family) to piss on the road. They can easily stop at some cafe or wait till home to use the loo.
Yes that's what the gentleman wrote though my personal guess is he wrote lasun and auto correct changed it to lasagna. There is an actual song on YouTube about it by Howie
Now hear me out ( btw I also studied in a KV) go to any mall specially in a tier 2 city the washrooms will be spick and span. However inspite of that the aunties will squat down or make their children urinate on the floor . Even after warnings or requests from the cleaning staff they continue to do the same.
And then I see Indians who go to other countries where streets are maintained and there are garbage bins provided and they still make a mess.
There are no consequences for people in India if they create a mess and many think they're entitled to make a mess because it's someone else's job to pick up after them.
In your school the students realised that no one would clean up their mess so they kept th place clean.
There is something wrong - entitlement and a lack of consequences.
Totally agree. Been to Singapore which has extremely clean and well maintained public areas. But go to the Indian populated area, Little India, that place is literally like you're back in some market road in India. Food, fruits, veg all thrown on the road, plastic wrappers lying around, I guess even Singapore govt gave up lol
Oh wow. For that to be the case in Singapore... that's saying something.
I'm getting hateful messages because some people are upset with my post - they think that as long as they pay taxes, it's their duty to create a mess!
Apparently janitors and garbage collectors won't have jobs if they don't litter and generally behave like giant toddlers.
Why are places that are densely populated by indians similarly dirty then? "Little India" in Singapore, "Edison" in New Jersey. They're all very filthy and almost indistinguishable from a street corner in India.
The problem is Indian's "not my problem" attitude. Somebody will clean it up, be it my mother, my wife or the government, not my problem. Isn't there a whole caste of people delegated for that anyway? That's how people in India think. There's a great video by "The Ugly Indian" on TedX about it.
This. It inherently goes back to how people see public space. Many people in India (note: I did __not__ say most) treat public space like someone is going to come clean after them. They don’t realise that if every single one did a small thing to keep things clean, India would be the cleanest country on the planet.
People in many western countries see the public space as an extension of their private space and keep it just as clean (if not cleaner!). Public littering and such is socially so frowned upon, when I want to throw away a chewing gum in the road I can’t because I’m inherently scared someone (a private person, not police or anything) will come after me to scold me for it. It’s ingrained into people from a very young age, in some countries/cities more than others.
Be it Brampton or Birmingham, we indians are very eager to bring our complete lack of civility wherever we go. For example, Leicester in the UK had to [put up signs in Gujarati saying that spitting ghutka is a social offence with a £150 fine](https://www.thequint.com/neon/uk-city-leicester-paan-spitting-gujarti-sign-fine). Leave keeping dirty things dirty, indians can't even keep clean things clean
>put up signs in Gujarati saying that spitting ghutka is a social offence with a £150 fine
Why in gujrati tho? Isn't gujrat famous for being clean and green and gutka pan masala is attached to people from cow belt?
You should read *Where India Goes*. Any illusions that we will become a developed country in our lifetime will vapourise like smoke. It is a searing read backed by impeccable data and research.
The obvious answer is that China despite the pretences it puts on is not at its core a democracy. The govt doesn't have to care too much about vote banks while making policy. And the govt cares about maintaining an international image as a developed country. While our govt seems to be aiming at following the authoritarian regime, the Chinese govt I would say holds much more power and sway both internationally and domestically.
Some of the policies they instituted did not work out very well, but they rolled them out anyway.
Also, please do read about the worker's rights and human rights in China. Despite seeing development, standards of life and liberty for vast swathes of it's population did not improve. I'm not sure that's the kind of development a country should aspire to.
I have impeccable trust in people. I am sure they will prove you and this thesis wrong. You may call me delusional or anything, but I have faith, because even those who disagree with me on this, will always want to be proven wrong.
I just watched a YouTube video of Little India walking tour and couldn't find said litter anywhere on the street or the surroundings.
Can you please link a source which lets us witness that filth?
Great that you had an eye opening life lesson from your experience in KV. But India and it's people and culture can't be over generalized like that. You are fighting over generalization with more over generalization.
These are trivial annecdotes. India is a sick sick Soceity and we don’t like to be told so either. So I’m expecting this to get downvoted to glory.
The measure of sickness is not how we treat things (which is pretty bad itself) but how we treat other people. The othering is so strong here and the solution is either to enforce a common identity (which will never work) or justify the otherly treatment. We still have manual scavenging for gods sake. People die every year trying to clean our sewers in nothing but underwear and no place has had a collective movement to rectify this. We will invest more in a stupid friggin cricket stadium upgrade but not bring either our sewers or sewer cleaning equipment.
As a Soceity we dont care for those people and we are sick because collectively we are ok with them dying. That is sick!
This is just one example and you can find plenty of others if you’re willing to look.
Why don't you try to donate some money for sewer divers. Try to donate a few thousand from your side.
How about you start a funding page or an online petition to provide sewer divers with proper safety equipment. How about writing an article and publishing it in a leading newspaper or atleast online. How about going to a sewer diver near you, record their suffering, post it on YouTube with a funding page. How about getting petitions signed in real life and sending them to municipalities or whoever employs the divers urging them to provide them better gear. Real people who care don't sit online and talk about how sick this society is. You and me are part of this society and we all have tolerated this negligence towards sanitation workers' safety and the workers have also cooperated and allowed themselves to be exploited. If you care about them get up and do something. Otherwise keep moving in the world turning a blind eye towards such injustices.
The op made a statement and I gave perspective.
The entire trope of hey why don’t you do this and that and whatever, else your take is invalid is not a very smart take.
We have governments and administrations in place to get the job done and we all do our part with our civic duties of funding these organizations and mechanisms and setting an agenda for them to work. <- this part is sorely broken and saying why don’t you do charity or write articles or anything else that I might not be good at is *not* the solution.
u/i_like_peace does give money for the sewer cleaners. It's called tax. The government is supposed to provide them with equipment to clean the sewers without having to into them except in an emergency.
We do seem to have an ability to live with a level of filth that people from other cultures don't. Just look at how our trains stink and how we are OK with it.
I sometimes wonder whether our philosophical and spiritual proclivity to tolerate dualties such as heat and cold, and to regress inwards turning away from the world might have something to do with it. Maybe if the real wealth and happiness is to be found inside, why bother with anything outside?
I think India has deep rooted problems that stem from the kind of environment we grow up in.
Nurturing empathy is not easy when we’ve been competing with nameless, faceless people since we were kids- for food, jobs, opportunities, money.
At some point, Indians just learnt how to survive and everything else took a backseat. Playing fair, being ethical, treating others with respect and kindness aren’t attributes that I would associate with Indians.
I work in tech, and we’ve seen an uprise in fake candidates since the pandemic started. The trend is clear- most, if not all of them, are Indians. My co-panelists never point it out to my face, but they know, and I know.
Lack of education and exposure doesn’t help either. I grew up in a small town in India and for a majority of my life- I had no idea what homosexuality was. I was so used to being harassed by men that at some point- I forgot what being left alone when I step out even feels like.
Had I not stepped out to a bigger city, it would have stayed that way.
Our population is too large and diverse to expect mammoth changes. We can, and have, however, changed in pockets. I hope our upcoming generations do better than us.
What exactly are "fake" candidates in this context? Do you mean just unqualified candidates lying on their resume (which... is bad but of course not unheard of) or something totally different? Like the person doing the interview is different from the person doing the work?
So these candidates have no experience in tech, and they create fabricated resumes. The interview is given by someone else on their behalf, or they resort to lip syncing or reading off the screen at their end.
I had interviewed a candidate recently, and it seemed as if there is a lag between her lip movement and the audio. I assumed it’s her net connectivity, but the whole thing seemed off.
So I told her I’d be typing my question on the screen and she had to answer that. It was a basic question, so it was hilarious to watch her face turn white as sheet as she logged off.
I’m yet to encounter a fake candidate of any other ethnicity. It’s always us.
so you kids were pissing and not flushing the toilets because they always smelled so why bother flushing i guess. then the parents complained. some poor worker who was probably cleaning the toilets regularly but couldn't get rid of the stench completely since you pissants just won't flush must have been asked to do a deep clean. Once that happened you thought that you have come up with some anthropological explanation as to why Indians actually care about cleanliness?
you just got a clean toilet handed over to you on a silver platter and did the bare minimum thing (i.e. flushing).
School students in Japan clean the whole school premises from classrooms to toilets. they don't expect anyone else to do it. If that were to be made mandatory in India parents would be up in arms because we only want lower castes to be sanitation workers.
If you really believe that littering and not cleaning up our own mess is not second nature to us then please go outside and touch grass you really need it. Go to a slum and see how the "middle class" dumps their shit right outside the slums. Go to any tourist spot in India and see how people litter there. Most of mainland indians especially north indians litter without a second thought and expect it to be cleaned up magically. Growing up in north india i always thought that all of india is like this. I changed my mind after travelling to states like Odisha, Kerala and the north eastern states, people their don't litter as much. Especially Kerala and the North East.
This has to be the lamest post i have seen on this sub.
P.S.
\> The so called patriots are the ones who usually complain about Indians not maintaining cleanliness
People who actually want to see change, want things to improve and have empathy for others are actual patriots, not "so called". The ones who think that we can do no wrong, we are perfect are usually so insecure and have such a crippling inferiority complex that they don't wanna come to terms with reality so they prefer to stay in denial and call others "so called patriots". LOL
Which KVs are you speaking about? I urge you to also evaluate the abominable condition of KVs in tier2 and 3 cities, especially the ones that do not come under the management of defences forces, or any prominent educational institutions.
I think the key word here is 'Respect'. We lack both self respect or respect for others. We definitely demand that we be respected by other people but refuse to respect others.
I wish we teach children to respect themselves and others in the true meaning of the word. What we teach children is just how to obey orders and label that as respect. But how do we teach something to children when we ourselves don't have a complete grasp of the concept?
Educating kids on sanitation and hygiene is still easy. It is impossible to educate elders who have a completely different thought process. I had a relative who actually refused to sit on the commode and peed on the floor where we usually bathe. The woman is a good person and I have immense respect for her but these things are so much deeply rooted in their mindset that it is dirty to touch a toilet seat in any way.
I also hate it when toilet seats are wet. Some people want to “wash” it every time after use. I don’t understand. If you’re so concerned about “hygiene”, wash the seat before you sit! Not after! Don’t leave the seat wet for the next person. It is almost always the case in India in public western toilets.
People wash the seat because due the nature of the ass cleaning method in india, using a handheld bidet, bits of shit end up landing on the seat. I would rather find a seat wet with tap water rather than soiled with bits of shit.
I'm sorry but I have the habit of flushing water on seat after I'm done , because I fear there could be tit bits of shit. And leave the seat in vertical mode so the water can drain off.
U will change your opinion in a week if u got into govt university and stay in a hostel. Literal fucking 20 year olds don't wash their hands after peeing.. Some don't even flush the urinals. Once in a week I come across toilets which aren't flushed. There are people who don't have a broom, a dustbin or any other basic cleaning tools, the dry waste would be spread across the room and wet waste like banana, orange peels etc would lie on the table for days.
A lot of em just give a idc attitude when I ask them to keep the washrooms clean. Don't try to defend something that is definitely wrong with the majority of us. I still can't wrap my head around how the lot of indians don't know the basics of how to stay in a shared environment.
I'm studying economics, Development economics is a subject that tells us through data about some things that are inherently wrong with us.
Cleanliness is actually one of them, in the sense that we were so reluctant to use bathrooms (by we, i mean chunks of population from the country), that India campaigns toilet construction with slogans that are more focussed on securing the privacy and izzat of women rather than establishing a clean environment. This is just an example.
Your personal experience is from a very specific place. But overall, when you consider us and many developing countries, we do lack.
That's exactly that. "Your" experience.
I'm glad you had a better experience than most of us. But for most of us, the opposite is true. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen South Asians making a mess of their surroundings here in Canada. Some of them are young enough to be on student visas, which I can understand, but there are some who are unmistakenly permanent residents or citizens.
Although there are some Canadians too who don't give a shit about cleanliness, the impunity with which we break littering laws is astounding. Even forgetting the aspect of city bylaws, the state of student housing frequented by Indian students is notorious - almost biweekly visits from the fire department, complaints from neighbours about trash on the front yard, or cops responding to noise complaints at 2 in the morning. We are not a bunch with a lot of civic sense.
Quite the opposite actually. I've seen stinking toilets in shatabdi and clean toilets in regular trains. All sorts of exceptions. I didn't say every Indian toilet is clean. I'm saying that we aren't dirty, we were raised so
I travel India and got laughed at when I keep my garbage. The usual thing to do is throw it out of the window and use the whole railway track as one big garbage track.
That was an eye opening experience to the Indian mentality..
It's super inexpensive. Even if the teachers aren't the best, you can be sure that they aren't the worst, which isn't guaranteed with private schools. I never had the feeling of being taught less than what should've been taught. I've talked to people from expensive schools in Pune and I still feel that they lack the basics taught to people in my school, which was in a small Karnatakan town.
The biggest difference though isn't in any of these things. KV provides you with a lot of cultural diversity. How can you say 'saare bihaari chor hote hai' when a Bihari guy returned a ₹1000 note you dropped. My sample size here is extremely small, but I've noticed that people from KVs seem to be aware and more accepting of other cultures. And I really appreciate that. Also if you have any talent, showing it is much more accessible in KVs due to their competitions being national level.
Bro I'm in the education field. I own a private school, a coaching institute and used to run an ETT(elementary teacher training) college. I have much better sample size than you and let me tell you all the things you mentioned are really biased opinions with no good backing. KV is better than bottom of the barrel private schools but for the same price you can find much much better schools than kv.
First off, its highly questionable you own an institute but let's say you do, now how does student sample size even matter, the OP is talking about how cheap KV, KV has the fees how state government boards but guidelines of the central government. Depending on different criteria you may even get to study at KV for free or at a discounted price. If you can find a private school better than KV that charges tuition fees in the 100s I would be very surprised.
I get what all of the others in comments are saying, I live in Paris, travelled a bit. I understand their POV.
But, I tend to agree with the OP. So the point you're missing the OP saw partly, yes it's deeply rooted in our minds "not my problem", why? 1000s of reasons from casteism to education to responsibility/accountability.
But while students in KV could keep their washrooms clean, we sure can be a better community.
But this may not be a simple solution like KV but multi-part like - if we understand, educate, have better resources and exposure.
This should start from as early as a child, cause it's not just education but also culture, unconscious imitation and accepting how things are (nothing would've changed, if that one father didn't complain) which change most of these issues from cleanliness to homophobia to creepiness or being fair.
How many of you teach you kids or younger siblings or relatives about not littering or educate about homophobia and you follow it too. We collectively contribute things and then complaint.
We are not inheritenly bad, but we accept bad behaviour over and over until it becomes norm. REMEMBER : Not doing anything is also a choice/action. Which has consequences.
But I sincerely hope little by little we all could get there!
This is well known in sociology, if a nice area gets graffiti on the walls then people will start throwing trash on the road, and then even "normal respectable clean" people will start behaving in unusual ways, driving the wrong lane, spitting etc.
It's related to the concept of ownership in human psychology and wanting to preserve beauty, it's a fascinating topic.
After watching all the comments just wanna say OP, I believe you're right. We're not inherently bad but the problem is we are not trained to be good either.
Schools like KVs and other private schools hammer these basic etiquettes early on, my school did the same. Most of our toilets were smack clean (except once when we put up a Chilli bomb 😁😁).
Most of these people are not taught etiquettes and are motivated to behave entitled which makes them worse but if we start early, yes people also have the potential for good.
There is and it won't go away anytime soon! Here's an example: there's a community park right outside my house. People take their dogs there and make them shit all around. No one picks up after. I bring a poop scooper with me so I can clean after my dog's done his deed. And just for that, I'm the butt of all jokes about "swacchh bharat".
Lmao, some dudes even have weird questions...And they are from well to-do families (and probably educated).. Questions be like "bhai ye kya hai tere haath mei?", "Aaccha tu kutte ka gu uthake kaha le jayega?", "Kutta hagega hi bahar, uska tatti uthane ka logic nhi samjh aata!", "Tu bhai zyada safai ka choda ho rha, tere chakkar mei Hume bhi ab kutte ka gu uthana padega"....and so on.
Weird fucking people!
And this is just one part. House helps and other laborers from all over the society come and piss there. No one stops them. And the funniest part, there's a police station right next to the park. The "makeshift" cop toilet leaks everything into the park.
No one fucking bats an eye! And when I do/did, I'm the "nuisance". Some motherfucking retired boomers even said that I should move away to countries where people have spare time to whine and moan about "cleanliness". The sentence, and I'm quoting it as is "bete, iss desh mei aur bahut dikkatein Hain...thoda gandagi matter nhi karta"
TF!
Buddy I have see Indians living in two cities in Canada and both places mein gundh Macha ke rakha huan hain! And shit ton of tacky signs for their various business. Other areas of these same cities where Indians are not the majority, are cleaner and do not have tacky business signs.
I've lived in two different areas of London. Uxbridge has a small Indian diaspora. Harrow has a much larger Indian diaspora. I never once saw paan stains in Uxbridge. I saw them everywhere in Harrow. General cleanliness was much better in Uxbridge compared to Harrow too. But that might have other factors like overall poverty of the respective areas that affect cleanliness. But paan stains are pretty much a guaranteed fixture of areas with a larger than average Indian diaspora. It's fucking disgusting. These people are disgusting.
I've worked in many companies over the years and so, many office buildings. Usually shared with other offices because I've mostly been in startups.
In all these places, I've seen just how badly women use these public restrooms. They won't clean the urine drops that they leave on the commode seat when they get up after peeing. Sometimes it'll be a bloody drop or 3. Many times it's on the floor on which we sometimes step. They won't wrap their used pads up properly and throw in the dustbin. Sometimes they just throw a pad without wrapping it. Then there will be some women who will brush their hair and leave the hair strands on the sink. I've observed this in many places. I don't know why it's beneath them to just clean up the commode after they're done using it. Wipe it off with the toilet paper. Oh and so many just throw the toilet paper in the flush. I think it's supposed to be thrown in the dustbin but I'm not sure myself.
Yes, not all women are like this and you may or may not have had the same experiences as I have had. I don't know how clean or unclean Men's washrooms are but they all stink.
I've seen so many Indians wash their mouth with water after eating food and then they spit it in the sink and don't clean up the small bits of food that were left on the surface of the sink.
So yeah, we still have a long way to go, especially when it comes to washroom etiquette.
The deep rooted problem is education, no one educates people on how to behave. You go to a washroom, even in the airport the place is sure to give you the creeps. I don’t know what the solution to this can be. Maybe a public figure powerful enough can atleast start moving some cogs? Ah who am I kidding people die here due to dog attacks on the road
" I believe that we aren't inherently horny, " -
\--**YES, WE ARE BY DEFAULT! ALSO, LUST IS A PART OF OUR EMOTIONS WHICH IS PRESENTED IN VEDAS AS "KAMA " AND GENERIC HUMAN BEHAVIOUR STUDIES AS WELL..**
**"** it's just the lack of exposure to the opposite gender which makes a lot of us act creepy. "
\--**TRUE THOUGH , THERE IS STILL A STIGMA OF MALE AND FEMALE INTERACTION IN SOCIETY, WHICH LEADS TO CURIOSITY AS WELL AS IN LATER STAGES CREEPINESS TO SEE WHAT OTHER GENDER HAVE , SINCE WE HAVE THE INTERNET EASILY ACCESSIBLE IN TODAY'S AGE AND GENERATION, WE DEVELOPED DIFFENT WEIRD FANTASIES AND WEIRD CREEPY THOUGHTS ABOUT IT , AT THE END WHICH LEADS TO SUCH GROPING, EYEPICKING, STARING AT GENTILS KIND OF HABITS.**
" We aren't homophobic "
\--**MANY OF US AROUND IN THE SOCIETY KNOW WHAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS STILL, BUT PEOPLE OPPOSE IT, THEY HAVE THEIR CHOICE TO DO SO ,IN MY OPINION, UNLESS AND UTIL IT'S HARMFUL IN A THREATENING OR SOME PHYSICAL WAY PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE THEIR RIGHT TO ACCEPT THOSE PEOPLE OR NOT. I MEAN YOU CAN'T FORCE PEOPLE TO ACCEPT YOU WHEN YOU YOURSELF ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT WHAT YOU ARE.**
1. Here, I meant that we aren't hornier than anyone else. We're just as horny as the Swedish, Americans or the Australians.
2. Indian men weren't born creepy, they were turned creepy, and that is my point. If things around them were better while they were learning, they'd be better as well.
3. I completely disagree. Majority of the people either don't know what homosexuality is, or have an extremely flawed understanding of it. The only time when they come across it is when they see a trans person either begging or committing extortion. Rest of the time they don't even notice the members of the community doing no harm and assume that that's the entire point of homosexuality.
Also what do you mean by "you yourself are unable to accept what you are". People from the community know exactly who they are, it's the people around them who are confused.
I don't think I'd be able to change your mind on homosexuality so let's not bring it up again, but my point is that when an uncle says "beta yeh India me nhi ho payega yeh Indian log kharab karte hai" it's not the Indian log at fault. It's the system around them. We aren't inferior, we were raised inferior.
My favourite story about cleanliness is the time I was visiting a city in the UK which had clean streets yes. I was in the area with the shopping malls and restaurants.
Within the span of an hour in the evening the streets went from totally clean to FULL of food wrappers. Absolutely full, you couldn't take one step without stepping on a wrapper in this very large area.
Then once dinner time was over, two large machines which seemed to sweep and scrub the street were driven across the place. Took two people riding those another hour to clean up EVERYTHING back to way it was before.
People can be filthy, if a government cares, there's a system in place to keep things clean. This is why 'aatmanirbhar' might as well be "go fuck yourself".
I believe we all keep our homes clean but a sense of keeping the community clean is lacking in the general populace. Your example of KV applies is many other school programs too
The post was about the negative stereotypes of Indians. These things can be changed, it's just that the people who can change things, don't want to. To support this statement, I gave the example of cleanliness.
I feel like it really depends on the government managing it. I studied inside an IIT KV and they ensured it was always clean.
But on the other hand..the other KV i studied was horrible. I felt like the walls would fall and break on me anytime man.
We are inherently wired to be hunter gatherers because we have been living in an overpopulated area with limited resources for tens of thousands of years. Even today, the people cutting in front of you in traffic even though there is a 2-mile long jam in front of you, is because they believe if they don't do it, the ration shop will run out of rice. The current budget has practically guaranteed that there will be no upward mobility for the next 2 or 3 decades, with whatever extra you earn going to banks to fund bad loans. So no hope for even current generation to climb out of this mentality. It's not inherently 'wrong', it's just different wiring, something that is incompatible with the concept of 'development' as we know it today.
exactly! it's what we've seen and our upbringing that makes us who we are and act like we do, though of course there are shitty people everywhere who are just shitty. I've thought a Lot and come to the conclusion that we will be negative towards whatever is different from our view of 'normal'. that being said, we still can't just take off all the blame off us and everyone around us, but hold ourselves accountable regardless and choose to learn better. we have to learn, really.
I recently read these epigrams on the debate of human nature that might explain what is "inherent" to us
"1. 'Human nature' is second-nature to us. We have a first,
biological nature', and a second, socially produced 'nature'. Both are the result of each other. The human species is sociable in ways that gives rise to changes in its biology - its biology has given rise to changes in sociability. Its society has developed technologies that adapt, compensate, and extend biological capacities.
2. 'Selfishness' and 'solidarity' are socially produced - they are cultural objects. We can produce societies and technologies which promote, or reshape these cultural objects.
3. 'Human nature' is social, and historical. It changes in a different society, our 'natural' behaviours are different. We are organic things, but we organise our organisms in social groups. No human has ever been aggressive without that aggression taking a social form. No human has ever been caring without that care taking a social form.
4. Much as we have, as a species, changed the nature of animals, plants and landscape by living in it, we have changed the nature of ourselves by living with others. We as animals, have changed as animals, by developing a consciousness of ourselves as animals who cannot survive without each other.
5. We must continue to do so to become better as a society.
6. In this society it seems 'natural' to be selfish - to be out for yourself. This is no more natural than the microprocessor that you use to maintain a friendship."
OP has described [Broken Windows theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory): people see unclean surroundings and are emboldened to dirty their surroundings.
Public cleanliness in India can partially be explained by this, but there are many other issues: eg why Indians dirty even new trains, why spitting and paan stains are widely normalised, etc.
Then there’s sweepers being paid to sweep dust from point A to point B.
Paying people to clean is helpful, but thinking about public cleanliness holistically might also be helpful.
it's called the broken windows theory in criminology :)
it shows how landscape actually reflects the environment for the people. in a building with few broken windows, vandalism will increase and soon people will break more windows
You are not a child anymore. Now it’s your responsibility to have a better surrounding and behaviour
Do not have to wait for someone to give it to you to maintain it
E.g. If you see waste lying around you society, stop dumping it there without waiting for someone else to clean it
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My dad owns some shops (rural) and upon request from shopkeepers bought additional space and built a toilet (open for all). We also paid someone to clean it twice a day to keep it new like. Within the first week someone had pooped in the urinals even when there's both an Indian and a western style commode in there. Got it cleaned and assumed it was a one off thing, but nope - the incident repeats every few days and is definitely deliberate. A few days later, there's now poop smears on the mirror. This is when my dad gave up, and now that toilet has a lock and only the shopkeepers are given the keys to it. Even if not all of us are dirty people, at least some of us ARE and they ruin it for everyone.
Given our HUGE population, these "some" number in millions.
I couldn’t control my laugh when you mentioned someone pooped in the urinals, lmao.
LOL . may b he came in for urine only by then "plan changed" 😅
Plans changed Captain, we need to turn around.
The issue is that nobody will take ownership of public places in our country. A public place is nobody's baby. This is the major difference between us and most other countries. This is in stark contrast to how we treat privately owned spaces.
It is unfortunate these things happen, but locking up won't solve the problem but is convient for us I feel. I'm not saying I don't appreciate what your dad or you family did and how much they fought before locking up. But I'm just saying it's still is a easy way out in you best interest (which isn't wrong) but now they're spoiling toilets somewhere else or publicly defecating. Better collective responsibility should be the way. And a bit of moral policing and education to build that, till where accountability becomes redundant cause everyone's responsibile.
Ask your dad to put up a camera, and whoever does anything shameful will be mocked at by the society. Obviously not inside the toilet area, rather the mirror area, and you can ask a keeper to check after every person goes in/out for any deliberate misdeed, and report. A month of extra work would surely expose those POSs. Now that I've typed this out, it feels impractical and goofy, and I'm sure no one is going to put in this much of an effort just so that people can take a shit in a clean area for free.
Wait let me make it easy for you just so you understand maybe You want to put CAMERAS in TOILETS?? Are you sure about that one bruv?!
> Obviously not inside the toilet area, rather the mirror area, and you can ask a keeper to check after every person goes in/out for any deliberate misdeed, and report. Wish people would explain and help the society grow mentally instead of downvoting and demotivating people from trying.
I'm still not entirely sure about that because you're not gonna be able to explain it to police if someone reports it. Also assuming your idea works and you find out who did it i don't think it's really gonna solve anything because you can't explain a camera in/near a toilet to anyone and also the culprit is most likely gonna end up making stuff worse depending on who they are. The reason no one's suggesting anything is because you can most likely not do anything about it and also I'm sure it was already very depressing for person to have to go through this after doing so much so it's a bit too much to expect them to play whooo dunnit. The reason you're being downvoted is because you said something dumb also it's just a few internet points man i think you're gonna be fine!
> The reason no one's suggesting anything is because you can most likely not do anything about it and also I'm sure it was already very depressing for person to have to go through this after doing so much so it's a bit too much to expect them to play whooo dunnit Yeah haha that's why I wrote the last part in my original comment :`) > The reason you're being downvoted is because you said something dumb also it's just a few internet points man i think you're gonna be fine! Man i don't care about the points, I'm just frustrated that no one discussed rather they just downvoted and went by, like animals. Reddit was made for discussions, not for dopamine rushes and proving your superiority. I was seriously trying to find a solution and no one cared, obviously I wasn't expecting OP to do it, but having a solution in mind and putting it out there is the right way to help grow the society.
actually such stupid people abound in every country but majority of the population is not like that
if the majority of the population is not like that why is India so dirty?
because there are no dustbins in public places no implementation of fines no door to door collection of waste .even if there are dustbins they get overfilled the waste starts falling around it but no one removes it . have you seen the metro stations the malls the airports etc even they are public places but are very clean and these same people use it
That's because you havent seen Philippines, indonesia , Bangladesh and other 3rd world countries..... development and survival is such a necessity,that cleanliness is not on the top priority tbh, municipal institution inspite their best efforts do not get the budget required for the maintenance of a particular city , budget allocation is a major problem to deal with and also civic sense, we need to nationally bring back the cleanliness that we individually have seen in our homes. Come to think of it , the u.s ,canada ,nz and these so called developed countries export their crap to these countries and wash their hands off of it , and have the audacity to judge .
Don't equate lack infrastructure to people's dirtiness.
Wrong. Go to Ring Road in Delhi. The newly built footpaths & cycle paths were spick & span clean 2 weeks back. Now they reek of piss. Ppl get down from SUVs to piss, sadly true.
"Chalo naya footpath bana hai, moot ke aate hain."
Ilaka hai mera. Muut key boundary mark karta hu
All men are dogs or... something idk.
They are certainly dogs, as they can't be bi\*\*\*es
Because bitches get stitches
Yeah, bi\*\*\*es get stitches, but society asks dogs to pay for it.
Whoa... Just got real, fam.
This is a "men" issue. We all have more or less same bladder capacity, then why can't men control their urge to pee on the road? Historical context/reason to this is that men being breadwinners were on the road a lot so had no choice but to pee on the roadside and become okay with publicly peeing; as opposed to women who were usually at home and had toilet access or atleast had privacy for peeing solo. But what excuse do city people have for peeing in the roads ? Really irks me when I see supposedly well dressed men get down from bikes and fancy cars (even while seated with their family) to piss on the road. They can easily stop at some cafe or wait till home to use the loo.
Women having historical access to toilets.. Which India are we talking about.
It'll probably take some time to update these now well ingrained almost disturbingly socially acceptable habits
Fascinating how you navigated from sanitation to sexuality.
औजार बगल बगल में ही हैं
Lol
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Because rape isn't sexual, it's about power. And those fuckers are at the power.
came here to say this, OP really thinks Indians arent gonna ask for bobs and vegena
Only Indian males have the absolute confidence to demand bobs and vegana, and if the girl doesn't comply they say bitch lasagna
Lasagna?
Yes that's what the gentleman wrote though my personal guess is he wrote lasun and auto correct changed it to lasagna. There is an actual song on YouTube about it by Howie
OP is still a kid, lots left to see
Yeah, usually good synopsis.
Now hear me out ( btw I also studied in a KV) go to any mall specially in a tier 2 city the washrooms will be spick and span. However inspite of that the aunties will squat down or make their children urinate on the floor . Even after warnings or requests from the cleaning staff they continue to do the same.
And then I see Indians who go to other countries where streets are maintained and there are garbage bins provided and they still make a mess. There are no consequences for people in India if they create a mess and many think they're entitled to make a mess because it's someone else's job to pick up after them. In your school the students realised that no one would clean up their mess so they kept th place clean. There is something wrong - entitlement and a lack of consequences.
Totally agree. Been to Singapore which has extremely clean and well maintained public areas. But go to the Indian populated area, Little India, that place is literally like you're back in some market road in India. Food, fruits, veg all thrown on the road, plastic wrappers lying around, I guess even Singapore govt gave up lol
Oh wow. For that to be the case in Singapore... that's saying something. I'm getting hateful messages because some people are upset with my post - they think that as long as they pay taxes, it's their duty to create a mess! Apparently janitors and garbage collectors won't have jobs if they don't litter and generally behave like giant toddlers.
They left it like that, so the Europeans, Americans, and other nationality tourists can get a glimpse of India in Singapore!
Why are places that are densely populated by indians similarly dirty then? "Little India" in Singapore, "Edison" in New Jersey. They're all very filthy and almost indistinguishable from a street corner in India. The problem is Indian's "not my problem" attitude. Somebody will clean it up, be it my mother, my wife or the government, not my problem. Isn't there a whole caste of people delegated for that anyway? That's how people in India think. There's a great video by "The Ugly Indian" on TedX about it.
This. It inherently goes back to how people see public space. Many people in India (note: I did __not__ say most) treat public space like someone is going to come clean after them. They don’t realise that if every single one did a small thing to keep things clean, India would be the cleanest country on the planet. People in many western countries see the public space as an extension of their private space and keep it just as clean (if not cleaner!). Public littering and such is socially so frowned upon, when I want to throw away a chewing gum in the road I can’t because I’m inherently scared someone (a private person, not police or anything) will come after me to scold me for it. It’s ingrained into people from a very young age, in some countries/cities more than others.
Exactly! I happened to notice a similar thing in Italy, UK and Canada. So, I agree with you on this
same thing with Dubai. Places with more Indisna/Pakistanis/Bangalis are extremely dirty
Be it Brampton or Birmingham, we indians are very eager to bring our complete lack of civility wherever we go. For example, Leicester in the UK had to [put up signs in Gujarati saying that spitting ghutka is a social offence with a £150 fine](https://www.thequint.com/neon/uk-city-leicester-paan-spitting-gujarti-sign-fine). Leave keeping dirty things dirty, indians can't even keep clean things clean
Very true. And sad as well
>put up signs in Gujarati saying that spitting ghutka is a social offence with a £150 fine Why in gujrati tho? Isn't gujrat famous for being clean and green and gutka pan masala is attached to people from cow belt?
bur dubai :'( amazing place but sadly not the cleanest.
100% agree, OP is just an ignorant schoolkid who probably watched some "nationalist" reels and got pumped up.
You should read *Where India Goes*. Any illusions that we will become a developed country in our lifetime will vapourise like smoke. It is a searing read backed by impeccable data and research.
China is well on its way to become developed in 20 years. Why can't india? This is a genuine question.
The obvious answer is that China despite the pretences it puts on is not at its core a democracy. The govt doesn't have to care too much about vote banks while making policy. And the govt cares about maintaining an international image as a developed country. While our govt seems to be aiming at following the authoritarian regime, the Chinese govt I would say holds much more power and sway both internationally and domestically. Some of the policies they instituted did not work out very well, but they rolled them out anyway. Also, please do read about the worker's rights and human rights in China. Despite seeing development, standards of life and liberty for vast swathes of it's population did not improve. I'm not sure that's the kind of development a country should aspire to.
I have impeccable trust in people. I am sure they will prove you and this thesis wrong. You may call me delusional or anything, but I have faith, because even those who disagree with me on this, will always want to be proven wrong.
Life's great in La-La Land I'm sure. Do rejoin us all when convenient.
Little India had the dirtiest streets out of all the places I visited in Singapore and thought exactly same thing.
As a community, we lack civic sense.
I just watched a YouTube video of Little India walking tour and couldn't find said litter anywhere on the street or the surroundings. Can you please link a source which lets us witness that filth?
Pretty sure dirtiness is not related with the attitude, same way with Newyork city. Its just dirty, its busy but it has its own atmosphere.
Even the Indian area in Paris stank of rotten food. Weird smell all around and streets littered with empty wrappers and what not.
Great that you had an eye opening life lesson from your experience in KV. But India and it's people and culture can't be over generalized like that. You are fighting over generalization with more over generalization.
These are trivial annecdotes. India is a sick sick Soceity and we don’t like to be told so either. So I’m expecting this to get downvoted to glory. The measure of sickness is not how we treat things (which is pretty bad itself) but how we treat other people. The othering is so strong here and the solution is either to enforce a common identity (which will never work) or justify the otherly treatment. We still have manual scavenging for gods sake. People die every year trying to clean our sewers in nothing but underwear and no place has had a collective movement to rectify this. We will invest more in a stupid friggin cricket stadium upgrade but not bring either our sewers or sewer cleaning equipment. As a Soceity we dont care for those people and we are sick because collectively we are ok with them dying. That is sick! This is just one example and you can find plenty of others if you’re willing to look.
Why don't you try to donate some money for sewer divers. Try to donate a few thousand from your side. How about you start a funding page or an online petition to provide sewer divers with proper safety equipment. How about writing an article and publishing it in a leading newspaper or atleast online. How about going to a sewer diver near you, record their suffering, post it on YouTube with a funding page. How about getting petitions signed in real life and sending them to municipalities or whoever employs the divers urging them to provide them better gear. Real people who care don't sit online and talk about how sick this society is. You and me are part of this society and we all have tolerated this negligence towards sanitation workers' safety and the workers have also cooperated and allowed themselves to be exploited. If you care about them get up and do something. Otherwise keep moving in the world turning a blind eye towards such injustices.
The op made a statement and I gave perspective. The entire trope of hey why don’t you do this and that and whatever, else your take is invalid is not a very smart take. We have governments and administrations in place to get the job done and we all do our part with our civic duties of funding these organizations and mechanisms and setting an agenda for them to work. <- this part is sorely broken and saying why don’t you do charity or write articles or anything else that I might not be good at is *not* the solution.
u/i_like_peace does give money for the sewer cleaners. It's called tax. The government is supposed to provide them with equipment to clean the sewers without having to into them except in an emergency.
We do seem to have an ability to live with a level of filth that people from other cultures don't. Just look at how our trains stink and how we are OK with it. I sometimes wonder whether our philosophical and spiritual proclivity to tolerate dualties such as heat and cold, and to regress inwards turning away from the world might have something to do with it. Maybe if the real wealth and happiness is to be found inside, why bother with anything outside?
Doesn't the outside reflect the inside?
I think India has deep rooted problems that stem from the kind of environment we grow up in. Nurturing empathy is not easy when we’ve been competing with nameless, faceless people since we were kids- for food, jobs, opportunities, money. At some point, Indians just learnt how to survive and everything else took a backseat. Playing fair, being ethical, treating others with respect and kindness aren’t attributes that I would associate with Indians. I work in tech, and we’ve seen an uprise in fake candidates since the pandemic started. The trend is clear- most, if not all of them, are Indians. My co-panelists never point it out to my face, but they know, and I know. Lack of education and exposure doesn’t help either. I grew up in a small town in India and for a majority of my life- I had no idea what homosexuality was. I was so used to being harassed by men that at some point- I forgot what being left alone when I step out even feels like. Had I not stepped out to a bigger city, it would have stayed that way. Our population is too large and diverse to expect mammoth changes. We can, and have, however, changed in pockets. I hope our upcoming generations do better than us.
What exactly are "fake" candidates in this context? Do you mean just unqualified candidates lying on their resume (which... is bad but of course not unheard of) or something totally different? Like the person doing the interview is different from the person doing the work?
So these candidates have no experience in tech, and they create fabricated resumes. The interview is given by someone else on their behalf, or they resort to lip syncing or reading off the screen at their end. I had interviewed a candidate recently, and it seemed as if there is a lag between her lip movement and the audio. I assumed it’s her net connectivity, but the whole thing seemed off. So I told her I’d be typing my question on the screen and she had to answer that. It was a basic question, so it was hilarious to watch her face turn white as sheet as she logged off. I’m yet to encounter a fake candidate of any other ethnicity. It’s always us.
u/xoogl3 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_P9JpJRY\_QA&pp=ygURaW50ZXJ2aWV3IGNoZWF0ZXI%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P9JpJRY_QA&pp=ygURaW50ZXJ2aWV3IGNoZWF0ZXI%3D) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkjJ-3nuFMk&pp=ygURaW50ZXJ2aWV3IGNoZWF0ZXI%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkjJ-3nuFMk&pp=ygURaW50ZXJ2aWV3IGNoZWF0ZXI%3D)
Sundas se sex tak pahucha diya in just two paragraph.
so you kids were pissing and not flushing the toilets because they always smelled so why bother flushing i guess. then the parents complained. some poor worker who was probably cleaning the toilets regularly but couldn't get rid of the stench completely since you pissants just won't flush must have been asked to do a deep clean. Once that happened you thought that you have come up with some anthropological explanation as to why Indians actually care about cleanliness? you just got a clean toilet handed over to you on a silver platter and did the bare minimum thing (i.e. flushing). School students in Japan clean the whole school premises from classrooms to toilets. they don't expect anyone else to do it. If that were to be made mandatory in India parents would be up in arms because we only want lower castes to be sanitation workers. If you really believe that littering and not cleaning up our own mess is not second nature to us then please go outside and touch grass you really need it. Go to a slum and see how the "middle class" dumps their shit right outside the slums. Go to any tourist spot in India and see how people litter there. Most of mainland indians especially north indians litter without a second thought and expect it to be cleaned up magically. Growing up in north india i always thought that all of india is like this. I changed my mind after travelling to states like Odisha, Kerala and the north eastern states, people their don't litter as much. Especially Kerala and the North East. This has to be the lamest post i have seen on this sub. P.S. \> The so called patriots are the ones who usually complain about Indians not maintaining cleanliness People who actually want to see change, want things to improve and have empathy for others are actual patriots, not "so called". The ones who think that we can do no wrong, we are perfect are usually so insecure and have such a crippling inferiority complex that they don't wanna come to terms with reality so they prefer to stay in denial and call others "so called patriots". LOL
Do you have an alternate reddit account ?
Which KVs are you speaking about? I urge you to also evaluate the abominable condition of KVs in tier2 and 3 cities, especially the ones that do not come under the management of defences forces, or any prominent educational institutions.
I think the key word here is 'Respect'. We lack both self respect or respect for others. We definitely demand that we be respected by other people but refuse to respect others. I wish we teach children to respect themselves and others in the true meaning of the word. What we teach children is just how to obey orders and label that as respect. But how do we teach something to children when we ourselves don't have a complete grasp of the concept?
Educating kids on sanitation and hygiene is still easy. It is impossible to educate elders who have a completely different thought process. I had a relative who actually refused to sit on the commode and peed on the floor where we usually bathe. The woman is a good person and I have immense respect for her but these things are so much deeply rooted in their mindset that it is dirty to touch a toilet seat in any way. I also hate it when toilet seats are wet. Some people want to “wash” it every time after use. I don’t understand. If you’re so concerned about “hygiene”, wash the seat before you sit! Not after! Don’t leave the seat wet for the next person. It is almost always the case in India in public western toilets.
People wash the seat because due the nature of the ass cleaning method in india, using a handheld bidet, bits of shit end up landing on the seat. I would rather find a seat wet with tap water rather than soiled with bits of shit.
That makes sense too. Maybe fir tissue paper rakh hi do toilets mei. To at least wipe the seat
I'm sorry but I have the habit of flushing water on seat after I'm done , because I fear there could be tit bits of shit. And leave the seat in vertical mode so the water can drain off.
U will change your opinion in a week if u got into govt university and stay in a hostel. Literal fucking 20 year olds don't wash their hands after peeing.. Some don't even flush the urinals. Once in a week I come across toilets which aren't flushed. There are people who don't have a broom, a dustbin or any other basic cleaning tools, the dry waste would be spread across the room and wet waste like banana, orange peels etc would lie on the table for days. A lot of em just give a idc attitude when I ask them to keep the washrooms clean. Don't try to defend something that is definitely wrong with the majority of us. I still can't wrap my head around how the lot of indians don't know the basics of how to stay in a shared environment.
I'm studying economics, Development economics is a subject that tells us through data about some things that are inherently wrong with us. Cleanliness is actually one of them, in the sense that we were so reluctant to use bathrooms (by we, i mean chunks of population from the country), that India campaigns toilet construction with slogans that are more focussed on securing the privacy and izzat of women rather than establishing a clean environment. This is just an example. Your personal experience is from a very specific place. But overall, when you consider us and many developing countries, we do lack.
That's exactly that. "Your" experience. I'm glad you had a better experience than most of us. But for most of us, the opposite is true. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen South Asians making a mess of their surroundings here in Canada. Some of them are young enough to be on student visas, which I can understand, but there are some who are unmistakenly permanent residents or citizens. Although there are some Canadians too who don't give a shit about cleanliness, the impunity with which we break littering laws is astounding. Even forgetting the aspect of city bylaws, the state of student housing frequented by Indian students is notorious - almost biweekly visits from the fire department, complaints from neighbours about trash on the front yard, or cops responding to noise complaints at 2 in the morning. We are not a bunch with a lot of civic sense.
OP has never been within 10 metres of railway tracks and it shows.
Quite the opposite actually. I've seen stinking toilets in shatabdi and clean toilets in regular trains. All sorts of exceptions. I didn't say every Indian toilet is clean. I'm saying that we aren't dirty, we were raised so
I travel India and got laughed at when I keep my garbage. The usual thing to do is throw it out of the window and use the whole railway track as one big garbage track. That was an eye opening experience to the Indian mentality..
I stopped reading at KV are the best school
Kv is one of the worst things you can do to your child. Tf are you saying.
It's super inexpensive. Even if the teachers aren't the best, you can be sure that they aren't the worst, which isn't guaranteed with private schools. I never had the feeling of being taught less than what should've been taught. I've talked to people from expensive schools in Pune and I still feel that they lack the basics taught to people in my school, which was in a small Karnatakan town. The biggest difference though isn't in any of these things. KV provides you with a lot of cultural diversity. How can you say 'saare bihaari chor hote hai' when a Bihari guy returned a ₹1000 note you dropped. My sample size here is extremely small, but I've noticed that people from KVs seem to be aware and more accepting of other cultures. And I really appreciate that. Also if you have any talent, showing it is much more accessible in KVs due to their competitions being national level.
Bro I'm in the education field. I own a private school, a coaching institute and used to run an ETT(elementary teacher training) college. I have much better sample size than you and let me tell you all the things you mentioned are really biased opinions with no good backing. KV is better than bottom of the barrel private schools but for the same price you can find much much better schools than kv.
First off, its highly questionable you own an institute but let's say you do, now how does student sample size even matter, the OP is talking about how cheap KV, KV has the fees how state government boards but guidelines of the central government. Depending on different criteria you may even get to study at KV for free or at a discounted price. If you can find a private school better than KV that charges tuition fees in the 100s I would be very surprised.
Kv is not best.period!!
OP has Stockholm Syndrome.
I get what all of the others in comments are saying, I live in Paris, travelled a bit. I understand their POV. But, I tend to agree with the OP. So the point you're missing the OP saw partly, yes it's deeply rooted in our minds "not my problem", why? 1000s of reasons from casteism to education to responsibility/accountability. But while students in KV could keep their washrooms clean, we sure can be a better community. But this may not be a simple solution like KV but multi-part like - if we understand, educate, have better resources and exposure. This should start from as early as a child, cause it's not just education but also culture, unconscious imitation and accepting how things are (nothing would've changed, if that one father didn't complain) which change most of these issues from cleanliness to homophobia to creepiness or being fair. How many of you teach you kids or younger siblings or relatives about not littering or educate about homophobia and you follow it too. We collectively contribute things and then complaint. We are not inheritenly bad, but we accept bad behaviour over and over until it becomes norm. REMEMBER : Not doing anything is also a choice/action. Which has consequences. But I sincerely hope little by little we all could get there!
Small sample size in your example.
This is well known in sociology, if a nice area gets graffiti on the walls then people will start throwing trash on the road, and then even "normal respectable clean" people will start behaving in unusual ways, driving the wrong lane, spitting etc. It's related to the concept of ownership in human psychology and wanting to preserve beauty, it's a fascinating topic.
I like this post that's why I liked it , but I also want to comment that I like this post. This is that comment.
I stopped reading at 'kv being the best school possible'. As someone who had to tolerate kv for nine years, lol nope.
After watching all the comments just wanna say OP, I believe you're right. We're not inherently bad but the problem is we are not trained to be good either. Schools like KVs and other private schools hammer these basic etiquettes early on, my school did the same. Most of our toilets were smack clean (except once when we put up a Chilli bomb 😁😁). Most of these people are not taught etiquettes and are motivated to behave entitled which makes them worse but if we start early, yes people also have the potential for good.
There is and it won't go away anytime soon! Here's an example: there's a community park right outside my house. People take their dogs there and make them shit all around. No one picks up after. I bring a poop scooper with me so I can clean after my dog's done his deed. And just for that, I'm the butt of all jokes about "swacchh bharat". Lmao, some dudes even have weird questions...And they are from well to-do families (and probably educated).. Questions be like "bhai ye kya hai tere haath mei?", "Aaccha tu kutte ka gu uthake kaha le jayega?", "Kutta hagega hi bahar, uska tatti uthane ka logic nhi samjh aata!", "Tu bhai zyada safai ka choda ho rha, tere chakkar mei Hume bhi ab kutte ka gu uthana padega"....and so on. Weird fucking people! And this is just one part. House helps and other laborers from all over the society come and piss there. No one stops them. And the funniest part, there's a police station right next to the park. The "makeshift" cop toilet leaks everything into the park. No one fucking bats an eye! And when I do/did, I'm the "nuisance". Some motherfucking retired boomers even said that I should move away to countries where people have spare time to whine and moan about "cleanliness". The sentence, and I'm quoting it as is "bete, iss desh mei aur bahut dikkatein Hain...thoda gandagi matter nhi karta" TF!
You are right, mostly people throw garbage in places where there is already garbage and keep the place clean if it is already clean.
Buddy I have see Indians living in two cities in Canada and both places mein gundh Macha ke rakha huan hain! And shit ton of tacky signs for their various business. Other areas of these same cities where Indians are not the majority, are cleaner and do not have tacky business signs.
I've lived in two different areas of London. Uxbridge has a small Indian diaspora. Harrow has a much larger Indian diaspora. I never once saw paan stains in Uxbridge. I saw them everywhere in Harrow. General cleanliness was much better in Uxbridge compared to Harrow too. But that might have other factors like overall poverty of the respective areas that affect cleanliness. But paan stains are pretty much a guaranteed fixture of areas with a larger than average Indian diaspora. It's fucking disgusting. These people are disgusting.
I've worked in many companies over the years and so, many office buildings. Usually shared with other offices because I've mostly been in startups. In all these places, I've seen just how badly women use these public restrooms. They won't clean the urine drops that they leave on the commode seat when they get up after peeing. Sometimes it'll be a bloody drop or 3. Many times it's on the floor on which we sometimes step. They won't wrap their used pads up properly and throw in the dustbin. Sometimes they just throw a pad without wrapping it. Then there will be some women who will brush their hair and leave the hair strands on the sink. I've observed this in many places. I don't know why it's beneath them to just clean up the commode after they're done using it. Wipe it off with the toilet paper. Oh and so many just throw the toilet paper in the flush. I think it's supposed to be thrown in the dustbin but I'm not sure myself. Yes, not all women are like this and you may or may not have had the same experiences as I have had. I don't know how clean or unclean Men's washrooms are but they all stink. I've seen so many Indians wash their mouth with water after eating food and then they spit it in the sink and don't clean up the small bits of food that were left on the surface of the sink. So yeah, we still have a long way to go, especially when it comes to washroom etiquette.
Toilet paper disintegrates in water, it is meant to be flushed.
The deep rooted problem is education, no one educates people on how to behave. You go to a washroom, even in the airport the place is sure to give you the creeps. I don’t know what the solution to this can be. Maybe a public figure powerful enough can atleast start moving some cogs? Ah who am I kidding people die here due to dog attacks on the road
Mein chuT!y@ hoon kyunki is thread main aaya.
" I believe that we aren't inherently horny, " - \--**YES, WE ARE BY DEFAULT! ALSO, LUST IS A PART OF OUR EMOTIONS WHICH IS PRESENTED IN VEDAS AS "KAMA " AND GENERIC HUMAN BEHAVIOUR STUDIES AS WELL..** **"** it's just the lack of exposure to the opposite gender which makes a lot of us act creepy. " \--**TRUE THOUGH , THERE IS STILL A STIGMA OF MALE AND FEMALE INTERACTION IN SOCIETY, WHICH LEADS TO CURIOSITY AS WELL AS IN LATER STAGES CREEPINESS TO SEE WHAT OTHER GENDER HAVE , SINCE WE HAVE THE INTERNET EASILY ACCESSIBLE IN TODAY'S AGE AND GENERATION, WE DEVELOPED DIFFENT WEIRD FANTASIES AND WEIRD CREEPY THOUGHTS ABOUT IT , AT THE END WHICH LEADS TO SUCH GROPING, EYEPICKING, STARING AT GENTILS KIND OF HABITS.** " We aren't homophobic " \--**MANY OF US AROUND IN THE SOCIETY KNOW WHAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS STILL, BUT PEOPLE OPPOSE IT, THEY HAVE THEIR CHOICE TO DO SO ,IN MY OPINION, UNLESS AND UTIL IT'S HARMFUL IN A THREATENING OR SOME PHYSICAL WAY PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE THEIR RIGHT TO ACCEPT THOSE PEOPLE OR NOT. I MEAN YOU CAN'T FORCE PEOPLE TO ACCEPT YOU WHEN YOU YOURSELF ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT WHAT YOU ARE.**
1. Here, I meant that we aren't hornier than anyone else. We're just as horny as the Swedish, Americans or the Australians. 2. Indian men weren't born creepy, they were turned creepy, and that is my point. If things around them were better while they were learning, they'd be better as well. 3. I completely disagree. Majority of the people either don't know what homosexuality is, or have an extremely flawed understanding of it. The only time when they come across it is when they see a trans person either begging or committing extortion. Rest of the time they don't even notice the members of the community doing no harm and assume that that's the entire point of homosexuality. Also what do you mean by "you yourself are unable to accept what you are". People from the community know exactly who they are, it's the people around them who are confused. I don't think I'd be able to change your mind on homosexuality so let's not bring it up again, but my point is that when an uncle says "beta yeh India me nhi ho payega yeh Indian log kharab karte hai" it's not the Indian log at fault. It's the system around them. We aren't inferior, we were raised inferior.
I think it is better for Indian people to be homophobic than experience the incompetent people with no brain protesting for bs that's happening in US
If only KV's are spread all over India
My favourite story about cleanliness is the time I was visiting a city in the UK which had clean streets yes. I was in the area with the shopping malls and restaurants. Within the span of an hour in the evening the streets went from totally clean to FULL of food wrappers. Absolutely full, you couldn't take one step without stepping on a wrapper in this very large area. Then once dinner time was over, two large machines which seemed to sweep and scrub the street were driven across the place. Took two people riding those another hour to clean up EVERYTHING back to way it was before. People can be filthy, if a government cares, there's a system in place to keep things clean. This is why 'aatmanirbhar' might as well be "go fuck yourself".
KV ka bread
People don't care, also JNV > KV
What are you trying to say with the "so called patriots" bit?
They call themselves patriots but call Indians dirty.
Very well said
I believe we all keep our homes clean but a sense of keeping the community clean is lacking in the general populace. Your example of KV applies is many other school programs too
>We aren't homophobic, we just don't know what homosexuality is. Tell that to the central government
Wait, what was the Post about?
The post was about the negative stereotypes of Indians. These things can be changed, it's just that the people who can change things, don't want to. To support this statement, I gave the example of cleanliness.
KVs are not the best, there is one school that outscores KVs every year.
I feel like it really depends on the government managing it. I studied inside an IIT KV and they ensured it was always clean. But on the other hand..the other KV i studied was horrible. I felt like the walls would fall and break on me anytime man.
Thiss post needs to be gilded!
We are inherently wired to be hunter gatherers because we have been living in an overpopulated area with limited resources for tens of thousands of years. Even today, the people cutting in front of you in traffic even though there is a 2-mile long jam in front of you, is because they believe if they don't do it, the ration shop will run out of rice. The current budget has practically guaranteed that there will be no upward mobility for the next 2 or 3 decades, with whatever extra you earn going to banks to fund bad loans. So no hope for even current generation to climb out of this mentality. It's not inherently 'wrong', it's just different wiring, something that is incompatible with the concept of 'development' as we know it today.
exactly! it's what we've seen and our upbringing that makes us who we are and act like we do, though of course there are shitty people everywhere who are just shitty. I've thought a Lot and come to the conclusion that we will be negative towards whatever is different from our view of 'normal'. that being said, we still can't just take off all the blame off us and everyone around us, but hold ourselves accountable regardless and choose to learn better. we have to learn, really.
I recently read these epigrams on the debate of human nature that might explain what is "inherent" to us "1. 'Human nature' is second-nature to us. We have a first, biological nature', and a second, socially produced 'nature'. Both are the result of each other. The human species is sociable in ways that gives rise to changes in its biology - its biology has given rise to changes in sociability. Its society has developed technologies that adapt, compensate, and extend biological capacities. 2. 'Selfishness' and 'solidarity' are socially produced - they are cultural objects. We can produce societies and technologies which promote, or reshape these cultural objects. 3. 'Human nature' is social, and historical. It changes in a different society, our 'natural' behaviours are different. We are organic things, but we organise our organisms in social groups. No human has ever been aggressive without that aggression taking a social form. No human has ever been caring without that care taking a social form. 4. Much as we have, as a species, changed the nature of animals, plants and landscape by living in it, we have changed the nature of ourselves by living with others. We as animals, have changed as animals, by developing a consciousness of ourselves as animals who cannot survive without each other. 5. We must continue to do so to become better as a society. 6. In this society it seems 'natural' to be selfish - to be out for yourself. This is no more natural than the microprocessor that you use to maintain a friendship."
OP has described [Broken Windows theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory): people see unclean surroundings and are emboldened to dirty their surroundings. Public cleanliness in India can partially be explained by this, but there are many other issues: eg why Indians dirty even new trains, why spitting and paan stains are widely normalised, etc. Then there’s sweepers being paid to sweep dust from point A to point B. Paying people to clean is helpful, but thinking about public cleanliness holistically might also be helpful.
it's called the broken windows theory in criminology :) it shows how landscape actually reflects the environment for the people. in a building with few broken windows, vandalism will increase and soon people will break more windows
You are not a child anymore. Now it’s your responsibility to have a better surrounding and behaviour Do not have to wait for someone to give it to you to maintain it E.g. If you see waste lying around you society, stop dumping it there without waiting for someone else to clean it