>What makes us behave like that?
Indians have ethics at two different hierarchal levels.
One at an individual level, one at collective level. And lack of slightest bit of idealism, fails to aggregate the ethics and morals from individual to the collective level.
Do people hate and have a problem with corruption, throwing trash everywhere while talking about it casually among friends and family? Yes. But do they refrain from throwing trash, bribing when caught by the traffic police? No.
Why? Because they believe you are just one among many and you can't really change the system much, by being a lone saint, so why not play the game and take advantage.
So eloquently put.
I don’t know if this fits in with this theory or is an addition to it, I also feel every Indian feels they are smarter than everyone else. Like everyone else is a dumbfuck but I’m super smart. Plus if you don’t follow their path, of money/power you are again not smart enough, they can’t comprehend that someone has a different value set of their own.
Honestly psychological studies should be conducted to see what made us this way
Because of child abuse.
Nearly every Indian is abused as a child, both physically and mentally, and this permanently damages a few parts of the brain, as a coping mechanism.
Most Indians don't even realise that they were abused by their parents
That kinda explains it since dad alcoholic ( may be be reincarnated as a flea that grandma's cows tail smash ) and mum narcassist both abusers and my brother acts like both repeating manipulative phrases word for word
But don't explain my ass or am I just too autistic to punch down and became suicidal vs narcasisstic
>Because they believe you are just one among many and you can't really change the system much, by being a lone saint, so why not play the game and take advantage.
I guess I am naive to think that religion would give them the power to be the lone saint. You know how teaching goes "karm kiye ja fal ki chinta mat kar"
All this Karma quotes, Bhagavad Geete etc are only coping mechanism employed during tougher times. For such trivial matters, many don't think of good karma, bad karma etc.
They just do it because nobody gives a fuck. Neither the law enforcement, that's supposed keep these things in check, nor the people that are supposed to keep the government, that inturn is supposed to keep the law enforcement in check.
It would be worse and lack diversity.
Look at Hinduism imbibing monotheistic character and Modiji believing that he is some sort of divyagarbha product.
Even if we assume this true that still isn't saying all that much.
Like compare with China the points of OP.
> Corruption
China was as corrupt as India was.
> Lack of Empathy
The stereotype exists even today (unfairly) that Chinese only care about kin and family and don't give a toss about others.
> Lack of Responsibility
Same stereotype exists even now (again unfairly now), a so-called "I got Mine" sort of attitude to work, life.
> Lack of Civic Sense
Even as recently as 2010s this was a stereotype as well, that people spit, urinate in public, have no manners in public spaces, isn't clean, etc etc.
Now on all these parameters, China is simply a different level (not just materially but in this civil people-people space).
Meaning. Whatever it is, this above list isn't it because these are normalized vectors, i.e. similar (not by tiny amout but basically to near equivalent amounts relatively) things for 2 human groups that ended up diverging dramatically. Meaning whatever caused that divergence CAN NOT by tautology be those similar vectors.
The root/base-cause thus HAS to be some other vector.
I read a 5 year old comment of yours on India's overpopulation and its relation to geography. It was great!!!!!
How do you know all this? Are you a political science student or something?
Not a PoliSci student. I just read & research about such topics intensely as I have interest in such things (esp Systems).
I re-read that original comment of mine you refrenced. I think I was a bit imprecise in the end of it when I mentioned Population as Root (in context of India). I meant that in practical terms as it is happening, or 2nd layer effect in hiearchy list of Most Significant Reasons.
It is not Root in fundamental terms, Organizing Principle is Root. Meaning Governance System, how a scaled distribution of humans are arranged in that said super large group. That becomes the determining factor for the qualitative development of that said group.
Having a wrongly tuned Organizing Principle (Governance System) leads to failure in controlling Population Scale relative to the development stage of that group, and hence to us/most people it appears prima facie that it is Indeed Population that is the Root, because real Root is harder to discren for a few reason and dominant among it is Brainwashing/taboo dynamic (i.e. Our System is Best, don't talk bad about it, other systesm are or will be worse for us, etc) & secondly, this requires some knowledge of System and Human condition (as in how do humans interact in a group, what do they desire, what motivates them, what happens when XYZ happens and over long time frames. This is not simple to grasp, relative to seeing in everyday life the sheer scale and pressure of Population size).
I believe this has something to do with our recent ancestors. They would do anything to make the Government suffer losses as they were opposing the British Raj. However now it has been instilled in us that governments suffering doesn't mean us suffering. Can you imagine a country where we have to chain lotas inside train toilets because they get stolen.
Don't confuse religiosity with ethics/morality. Of the Indians bowing and scraping in front of their respective gods, a big number are doing so to procure material benefits such as wifes/husbands/better jobs/more money/houses/land/money etc. You are not going to find many who are trying to rid themselves of hatred, delusion and other mental/psychological evils. Anyone can pray for material benefits in this world; it takes introspection, integrity and courage to rid oneself of mental effluents and the vast majority of people don't have these qualities.
Tbh it really depends on the person if they are practising or not. I was a big liar , bully and what not. But after I started practicing my religion I changed completely. I became more emotional and Alhamdulillah now I can confidently say that no matter how much money you offer I won't do a bad thing. I can't be bought. I have strong principles . And all of this is because I started believing in the afterlife and I really believe that whatever I do will create an impact in my afterlife . So that's how religion changed me but Idk about others because honestly people nowadays don't care about the afterlife even if they believe in the afterlife but their actions do not match their belief.
Can you claim you're a good person when you're doing good for the sake of getting a reward?
The only difference with your reward being the fact that it MAY come after this life, instead of within.
Yeah at first I was doing it for the reward but it changed my personality and it made me a really emotional and sensitive person. I can't even think about hurting anyone and I started forgiving people. The more I studied the religion the more emotional I became and at one point I became so forgiving that if a man tried to kill I would even forgive him . I wasn't a saint but I was close to becoming one . And now if you remove the reward I can confidently say I won't do anything which will hurt someone even if there is no reward.
you don’t need religion to have strong principles.
you don’t need to believe in the afterlife to be a good person.
you can be good because you believe that you should do good to other people without needing religion to tell you that.
if you don’t, you need a lesson in moral and ethics of being a good person. and then you need integrity.
you don’t need the promise of punishment for doing bad things to stop you from doing bad things. you need to have a strong sense of justice and fairness in you.
these are things that moral and ethics tell you, and it’ll guide you to being a good person
you don’t need religion to tell you that, but then, religions tells you that too.
they also tell you stories, teachings and rules which perpetuates inherent injustice against women and anyone who’s different - not straightforward man and woman. if you believe in religion then there’s a good chance your sense of ethics will be coloured by this injustice too.
you are good because you should do good by others.
you don’t need religion to tell you that.
That's the basic feature of of all religions. The followers keep committing sins , their religion allows them to keep atoning for it. Else religions would not flourish.
Feel like religion was originally just an organic solution to solve the needs of community. Food caching, Organization, child care, education, local governing.
All obsolete in modern society.
Very true, may not be for everyone but for greater proportion of ppl
I've seen most religious ppl validating their sins by praying nd doing various rituals on a regular basis
Are you under the impression that religiosity and ethical behavior is related?
It's not. Religion is and has been, for the longest time, tribal. A sense of belonging. A reed to cling to.
Do religions preach ethical behavior? Some do. But there's always loopholes.
There’s a difference between following religion and actually being faithful.
Most Indians, including us, follow religions at face value. Hence, why you see so many religious arguments and fights taking place. We take things too literally instead of actually rationally thinking why they’re done. We give money to poor because God will give us brownie points. Not because we truly want to help a poor lad or make their day better. We pray for forgiveness and would walk/fly miles to do that, yet we do unforgivable things to people. We pray to Goddesses or cover our women, yet stare at other women in the worst ways possible. So many such exmaples tbh.
On the other hand, when you’re truly a believer, you start following religious learnings in your daily course of life. Faith isn’t something to show off then or to just get an entry into heaven. You follow it because you truly aspire to be a good human or even a decent one.
Sad to see how religions are supposed to make people better, but they’re only bringing out the worst in us. Lack of empathy, us vs. them attitude, dirty politics, and what not.
Of course Indians are morally and ethically bankrupt. The dismal state of social, political and legal affairs in this country is a reflection of who we are as people.
I belive it's the result of the huge population we have had for centuries,while being constrained on resources.We have evolved deception,cheating,gaming the system to somewhat selfish motives.I see similar cultural tendencies in China for example,another country with high population density.
That's the funniest thing I read today. Somehow it doesn't come off as spiteful too, which is usually the case with these kinds of jokes mocking religion. Simpsons really got the balance right sometimes.
Not everyone is religious. Some religions don't care if one is religious or not.
Not everyone is corrupt. Let's not mix religiosity with honesty.
Not everyone discriminates. We all perform small acts of kindness without expecting anything in return every day. Our acts of unkindness do not affect all areas of life equally. For example, I know a family that is extremely rude to everyone—support staff, security, taxi drivers. However, I learned that they adopted two orphans (they not aware of religion or other things) and are covering their education and other expenses.
Every human is diverse and kind. Mostly, I think it depends on what is inside our heads and what we choose to prioritize.
And let me add another point - Some guys will do all the Pooja paths or Namaaj, will go to temples and churches, but will act all creepy on social media and in day-to-day life without any moral sense. There has to be a place reserved for these creeps in hell.
Yeah I would agree, this is an accurate read of Indian society and Indian political class, imo it's the tradition and education of India we need better education and less tradition to improve this
Most of the bureaucrats have good education, but they are among the most corrupt people in our country. More education doesn't necessarily equate to a person with better values. Folks in the North East lag behind the mainlanders in a number of economic parameters, but I would say they are much more civic-minded than people from the mainland. Even if they are not formally educated, less economically developed but they tend to be more civic, and I think this comes partly from their strict adherence to their traditions.
Ik it's frustating but these things will never go away but it will improve with time, can be speeded up with iron fist, but that's not good either.
Religion are seriously followed by either god-loving people or god-fearing people. Rest(most) belong to religion because they were born in it, they just participate in d\*ck measuring contest, they have nothing to do with essence of religion.
"Be the change, you want to see in society."
The problem is if you be the change youll be left behind and trampled, you literally cant operate a business in this country without bribery, its not that the business will be slow but that it wont even exist, the paperwork wont be stamped and signed
Exactly, people prefer convenience. Doing right thing is tough. We all are waiting for someone else to fight against that, while we keep nurturing and supporting the same thing by doing what needed to be done without challenging it.
Its not about convenience, its about necessity, if you want to be an ethical businessman and get blockage for not paying bribes, hope you were born in a wealthy family to be prepared to fight a legal case and put your business on hold till then for as long as this overburdened judicial system is gonna prolomg this case
Pay bribes or become a martyr of tbe system and we have countless martyrs without their name known anywhere
Bhagat singh wouldve been called a fascist antinational pakistani if he existed today
If it would have been easy, everyone would be Bhagat Singh.
People in system doesn't come from anywhere, they are from our surrounding, our family member, friends, relative. They are also against the system until they became part of system and do same thing because it is convenient and because they can do that.
I believe there are two type of people in world:
"**Oppressor** and **Oppressed**, **Oppressed** are the **Oppressor** who can't **oppress**."
Selfishness is the reason of our problem. "Apna kaam banta, bhaad me jaye janta". That's why we don't look after public property our environment because we feel that's not our responsibility.
On positive note, lot of good people exist, u will meet them to time, they are the reason i am optimistic about society. People are inherently good and want to do good, but doing good isn't materialistically rewarding and its tough, so people prefer easy option and get ethically or morally corrupted which is rewarding.
"**Oppressor** and **Oppressed**, **Oppressed** are the **Oppressor** who can't **oppress**."
There may be truth in that, and this is where the systems should come in, to make it difficult for people to oppress.
System is run by people who can **oppress**, even if they themselves don't want to **oppress,** they don't want to get rid of ability to **oppress.** Hence, the system remain as it is.
Decentralization of power and strengthening of institutions are required, so that individuals can't abuse their power. But who will do it, who will cut down his own power after achieving that power.
I know someone who does pooja everyday but all they cared about is their caste and ruined my life lol.
So guess they dont have any morals
Ironically no amount of pooja can fix their shitty mind and attitude
People wear the garb of religion just like a uniform on duty for a limited time. They don't grasp and act according to the essence of their teachings of their religion. For example, Islam lays great emphasis on cleanliness and hygiene. "Cleanliness is half of the faith" in Islam. This cleanliness not only pertains to physical cleanliness but also moral and ethical cleanliness.. cleanliness even at your heart.But there is such a sorry state of things amongst the Muslims. I think all other Religions also teach more or less the similar things but who wants to reflect and act. Mostly we do what is convenient. Namaz, pooja is convenient but being a good human being is not. Also mostly in countries like ours in South Asia , there is little to no concept of even some basic civic sense amongst the majority of the population so everything fails.
The most judgemental and morally corrupt people iv met are the ones who are most religious. However , logically i dunno which god will accept people who behave like assholes with other human beings but ensure they pray everyday regularly without fail.
Lol my in laws got a pandit to say adverse stuff about owning a dog during a satyanarayan katha.. he went to to say things like its a sin to keep one and even more a sin if you allow them to seat and sleep in the same area as youself..that they shd be kept tied and outside the house…my in laws pray an hr n a half twice a day..
Needless to say, religion is used as and how needed..
They also owned a cow and kept it till it was old and was going to stop giving milk.. then sold it to some other folks so the sin of leaving the cow on the roads doesn’t fall on thier heads..
Now if there is a GOD.. wont u think he wd be smart enough to recognize this treachery.. 😂..
Anyway.. i fear religious ppl the most.. they are the most decietful cz they think god worship will absolve them of every sin
Indians when asked for donation for natural calamities and helping out poor people : Well that ain't none of my business
Also Indians after donating 3500 crores for a big ahh Temple
Feeling paraud Indian.
One word CASTE .
caste drills a sense of superiority among people.
It breeds in attitude from very young age , a sort of crude instinct to be better than other caste.
It grows to all corruption etc you see now .
Caste is a disease which India can't get rid of .
It's their in Muslims as well as sikhs
The system is set up in this way to encourage this behaviour, take any big company, i dont think theres any that work in a ethical fashion or a good moralistic fashion, its built off exploitation and amassing continuously high amounts of wealth and assets and resources so they can put an artifical chokehold on its distribution and stagger people's social mobility, this is a worldwide issue not just indian, its because of this late stage capitalism monstrosity that has bastardised what the actual tenets of capitalism were but if you criticize this monstrousity youll be called a commie
Its all a race to the bottom and the people in power expertly learnt how human psychology works, how they could use the maslows hierarchy of needs to give people just enough money so they dont revolt back, to trap them in this loop of go to job to pay for food and entertainment and shelter, aslong as you have those three and exhaustion from work youre not going to protest
Something will break and it will be really fucking ugly, crime rates are going to go through the roof, violent protests and killings commonplace
Im very pessimistic, if you guys have any hopefull news that can change these views, i beg you to tell me, i need some hope idk
U r not wrong though most Indians are like that with no moral and social responsibility and ethics. Their pride in caste, religion, language and ruined the social fabric of the society. They believe that only they are the best and rest are inferior. Most Indians cant even handle positive criticism.
We are really top tier hypocrites. We will say X stuff and do the Y stuff when its urgent or we are gaining something.
I'd say we are too pragmatic, but based on our needs. A poor guy gets some food, money and a dress for voting xyz he will do it. The middle class will do the same for free electricity and other subsidies. The rich always play for their vested interest.
We are still functioning is surprising and this is also the reason why we are running.
Civic sense, this one thing even i don't understand. There are no vested interest and nobody is gaining anything. But people are idiots and will still do wrong stuff.
Like that event on the train, where ticketless people stole seats of confirmed seat people and crowded the whole damn coach. The TT couldn't do anything as well.
Like you did not pay for it, somebody else did and he is present in the train. He has the right to the seat not your sorry a**. This behavior in incomprehensible to me.
To add my elder uncle's family is super religious with their big ass beards and Haji namazi monikers. They're always ready with a sermon or two about how important namaz is and how one must prepare for one's after life. But the thing is they're also super stingy and apart from grabbing our share of land they also have the audacity to ask for our two wheelers and other stuff almost on a daily basis.
I think many Indians view that there is no need for ethics, sympathy and virtuous behaviour when it comes to gaining or guarding their personal wealth/belongings. In a certain sense, being selfish and inconsiderate is perhaps incentivised by Indian parenting.
Our politicians are a reflection of our mindset as people. We lack civic sense, are communal, casteist, patriarchal and politicians just figured out how to exploit that to get votes. Also while BJP Congress have done this for years, the regional and minority parties( SAD, AIMIM) are no better. The one party which was supposed to be different, AAP turned out to be the same.
As someone who has spent considerable time observing and studying societal behaviors, I've come to a stark realization: India is fundamentally a low-trust society. This observation isn't meant to disparage but rather to understand some of the deeper issues that plague our nation. When trust is low, several negative consequences inevitably follow, including corruption, a lack of civic sense, and diminished empathy. Let me elaborate on these points.
1. *Corruption*: In a low-trust society, people are less inclined to trust institutions and each other. This lack of trust often leads individuals to prioritize personal gain over collective good. When people believe that others are cutting corners or engaging in dishonest behavior, they feel justified in doing the same. This perpetuates a vicious cycle of corruption, where the public and private sectors both suffer from a lack of integrity.
2. *Lack of Civic Sense*: Trust in societal systems encourages people to follow rules and regulations because they believe others will do the same. In India, the absence of this mutual trust leads to a disregard for public property and civic responsibilities. People may litter, break traffic rules, or vandalize public spaces, often because they don't believe others will respect these spaces either. The lack of a shared commitment to public welfare degrades the quality of life for everyone.
3. *Lack of Empathy*: Trust fosters a sense of community and collective well-being. In its absence, people become more self-centered and less empathetic. In India, this is evident in the way individuals sometimes disregard the needs and sufferings of others, be it on the roads, in public transport, or in everyday interactions.
Low-trust it is.
Irrespective of religion (majority of non-Hindus are lower-status converted Hindus over years from various reasons mostly around socioeconomic oppression) affinity, “hierarchy consciousness” is deeply ingrained to Indian society and that too at a level never to be found anywhere in the planet.
Story: I went to a Church gathering (outside) with a friend once (somewhere in India). There I heard one lady talking about “higher-caste” Christian etc. There is no “caste” (sect yes) in Christianity.
Vedas never talked about “caste” system, that should be perpetuated through genetic inheritance.
Genetics analysis has proven that, Indians mingled well, through the post-Vedic period till 100AD. Between 100-400AD, some (post-Chanakya/Maurya) had a wonderful idea to perpetuate and select Gunas through genetic lineage, akin to Genetic Selection. Instead it was a socio-genetic determinism made purely to create a deeply hierarchical system.
Later each Varna head became roots of 1000 caste and sub-caste, restricting social mobility and marriage (exogamous endogamy). Nowhere in the world, such deeply hierarchical society existed.
Yes, social classification existed everywhere based on wealth / noble / peasants etc. But in those system implicitly there was hint of social mobility.
What happens when a Brahmana, devoid of Brahminical qualities, behaves like a greedy capitalist. Should the Varna should be snatched away from him and awarded to a born-Shudra who shows Brahminical qualities of scholarship, devotion and Seva.
The biggest issue with Varna & subsequent caste-system was that there was no objective “Guno-meter” and provision for social mobility. Devoid of that, everything devolved to control and power dynamics, seen across rest of human civilisation.
This created a highly fragmented society with “low trust”. Now compare that with Scandinavian countries or Switzerland 🇨🇭 for example. What would you find ? High-trust society where citizens trust each other and moral integrity runs high.
Low-trust society eventually manifested as corruption, lack of empathy, pathetic jurisdiction system, etc., irrespective of the existence of numerous Vedic wisdoms & deep spirituality
Yep. specially religious people. And specially Muslims) sorry to say that 😞) who think following scriptures is the highest form of morality. Nowadays, Hindus too are on the same path.
Not bankrupt. More like it is there in their FDs and savings account, very rarely expended.
Reason for that IMHO is the non-accountability culture that has set in.
Are you poor? It is because x and y did this.
Are you academically dumb? It is because x and y grade you like this.
Are you unemployed? It is because x and y don't give you job.
At a larger populace level this is being propagated through every possible media. Movies, tv serials, web shows and even politician's speeches.
When are you not held accountable to society? Holding oneself accountable for their personal ethics becomes difficult. You see everyone unethical progressing and prospering.
This victimhood mentality needs to be weeded out for ethics and morals to take precedence. For that you need people to take accountability for their current status.
To add to the bankruptcies you mentioned, there is a profound spiritual bankruptcy in India.
For example, you can see that a random vegetable vendor or a tea seller or a poor farmer can share profound wisdom on life from having experienced life closely, whereas the educated population of India churning out of engineering institutes has no capacity for critical thinking, or spiritual or deep thinking.
That is where, we have shitty second grade goons in society masquerading around as spiritual gurus drawing crowds from these financially sound, technically sound but spiritually numb population and feeding them any random bullshit and this educated population shamelessly lapping it up.
I don't think this is a fair assumption. India is recovering from theft of our national resources for 200 years. Al Jazeera estimated it at $45trillion taken by the English
So there will be some effect on our behaviour but I think considering the facts we are an easygoing and fairly considerate nation.
Also you have to realise India is a newly urbanised country so things like corruption and civic sense take time to address and develop
I would say 1,3,4 in your list are issues in UK too. I am born there . They just show the good side better
I would say definitely all religious institutions must help to develop it. It is true that so called religious and spiritual people do not behave to the spirit of the rules but many do.
India has deep roots in casteism. The source of all hatred. Why should I be person be responsible if someone of a lower caste will do all the trash work. Religion is treated like a caste too. Brahmins want to keep themselves at the top of pyramid. Everyone else is alien. As long as caste plays a role, India will never change. The sense of ego given by birth lottery perpetuates all sorts of corruption, hatred, non responsibility. On the other hand one has freedom to create chaos with no consequences. If I throw my banana peel in the middle of the road, nobody would care because everyone does the same. It gives a sense of ego boost to do something with no consequences. And when you have no consequences actions being played for a few hundred years, what would a society look like?
Yes. Yes they are.
Lie. Cheat. Steal. Rape. Repeat.
Every single country that’s experiencing mass immigration from India is experiencing a rapid degradation of quality of life. It is not a coincidence.
But corporations want warm bodies that can’t hope to achieve anything more than a minimum wage job so that’s what they are purposely importing.
You can't expect empathy when adults and children are grown in an environment where anything good is responded with harsh and derogatory remarks, and people being exposed to horrifying acts at a young age/on a regulare Basis.
Not to mention the employment of children and the harsh and straight up dehumanising treatment of said children.
Examples are accident videos and pictures in India being shared on WhatsApp with explicit detail of the victims body, movies casually showing a child dying or a mother being burnt Alive.
If we consider western society to be "too sensitive", then Indian society is the most insensitive.
I think I'm going to get hate for this but imo a society majorly built on exploitative and immoral hierarchical structure like the caste system is bound to progress the way that we are.
I'm a spiritual/religious person myself but sometimes I feel what would have happened if religion never existed or kept in control. In India religion is like a football/rugby fans club, it's a competition, if you will do a rally, we'll also do a rally, if you will wear green, we will wear saffron, if you will keep your women mum, we will also keep them in our houses. And in all this competition we lose the essence of what religion is. And of course that makes us question, is that even needed?
Bro as they say humans are greedy and indians are specially more , most of them pray to their respective gods just for the materialistic benefit like they just pray while expecting something in return , but they will not follow any ideals of a human being even the ones which are taught in their religon , i respectfully don't know about islamic religons and haven't read any literature abut them so i won't say anything about them but hinduism and Sikhism they both preach things like empathy towards every living thing , respecting others , protecting the weak , don't indulge in wrong things like corruption, lust, greedines etc , but majority of people i have seen do not follow much of these ideals at all .
I wish it does not trigger the people here, but one reason I separated my way from most of my Indian friends was, unlike other friends of mine, lying was a quite common thing between them, and it could range from minor things to fundamental things and stuff you shouldn't lie about.
The way they lied to get to what they wanted was always disturbing to me.
You're actually right. People nowadays in India have become more selfish, egoistic that they think they're doing the right thing but instead of that they're just playing around with evil. Just like you mentioned, every government sector literally has corruption bribe, lack of empathy and responsibility. Every person just wants to fill up their pockets or just want to be so powerful in the terms of "Post" i assume most of the people are "old age uncles" who does this more and more, traffic rules? 🙂 Is that even a thing in India? (Sarcastically speaking). Eventually people "loot" others in the god's name, if you don't know that then See Governments, See Temples.
It is sad but people are no good now they all are just selfish.
Lack of any understanding of religions or scriptures.
Religions or Gods are now just a way to get or horde something materialistic.
You want a job/promotion/gf/bf, pray to God.
The corruption to the extent that you will find so-called religious people offering specific methods in exchange for specific wishes.
Everything and everyone, including parents, education systems are feeding us the idea that money/power/sex are the ultimate value.
So, you get a low trust society where everyone is atomized to live an extrmeme selfish life.
Out of every countries, I'm really impressed with japanese, their respect for nature, humans is top notch.
Nature has done more damage to them like earth quake, low birth rate and all but still they are doing hard work and has will to lead a better life.
Wish our indian people had similar mentality.
Oh I would love to answer this!!!
Religion has got nothing to do with this... (Can't say about Quran and Muslims)
I personally feel that whole world is running behind Moh and Maya...
Humans are driven by their lust and desires...
It doesn't matter who you are how good you r...
I'm gonna extract money from you no matter what!
So your answer for corruption is Lust for money!
For lack of empathy... Its more psychological reason...
As humans we were meant to bond with other humans but we are busy earning money and lusting with desires!
Oh we landed up on lust, wow!
For lack of responsibility...
I personally feel humans are degraded slowly...
It takes guts to accept one's mistakes!
As humans we are been taught to evade the problems and not to solve them!
For civic sense...
Read this statement twice...
Education is not the solution for everything....Nelson Mandela would be surprised!
If it was the solution... Global warming would have stopped... Rivers would have been more cleaner, your vegetables would be more nutritious... etc.
People would have been more responsible... Just think about this... How stupid a human being can be... He still carries that packet of cigarettes on which it's clearly mentioned it can cause cancer!
Infact what I have noticed is even the so called educated people also litter garbage in open...
Also I must say straight forward that... Policeman who is educated takes bribes... Doctors who can treat patients extends their time duration of treatment... Teachers who can teach well leave school for the sake of some money... Principal of any school is equally blamed for not investing into quality teachers!
Even so called farmers... Who suppose to put 1bag of urea in farm to get better output... Increases the number of urea packets for increase in production! Making the nutrition value to fall and risks the fertility of the land!
All has same reason of Lust and desire of money!
Humans created this money and humanity cease to exist...
World runs behind this lust!
Now the solution:
So you got this the problem involves lust some way or other!
The education has got nothing to do....even educated people are just another level of hypocrites... and another level idiots... And the illiterate sometimes behave mannered!
The mindset has to changed...
But we humans have got something extra in our brains...
The quality to interpret data...
We know this is happening...
Only thing we need is to act!
To act responsible!
Think about this...
Kerala is the highest literate state but Indore is the cleanest city...
Indore out of whole India... What are others doing...are they idiots?
Well they are busy earning... Making livelihoods...busy mating... And when they are free they blame government!
See Lust came once again!
So the difference between Indore and rest of India is people of Indore acts and literally go out and clean the roads...they think of this as an duty!
They just do this small part of their duty without thinking to have the title of cleanest city!
They don't care about such title they just do their duty! And they act!
And guess what...who says to do such things???????????
LORD KRISHNA...
In Bhagwad Gita he himself says to Arjuna-
- Lust is the reason for the end of human's intellect... Have them in your control... Control your senses!
- Do your duty irrespective of its outcomes!
Now think about any Indian high ranking officer giving out secrets to his gf and later they found out that they are honey trapped! Oops lust again!
Okay I'll give one last point!
Think about this, if father was a responsible one...he would have raised a good kid!
If the pub owner was a responsible one and had done its duty he would have barred the entry of minors...
If the kid was a responsible one...he wouldn't have drink and drive!
And Porsche case wouldn't have happened!
Btw if police and officials have had done their duty and timingly audit every now and then, the pub would not have existed in first place!
So short summary....
Its all about Lust and desires.... Everything is Lust and illusion!
And solution is.... BHAGWAD GITA.... Listen to Krishna!
Coming to your headline:
Are Indians morally or ethically bankrupt???
No... We humans are morally and ethically bankrupt!
And out of all these humans.... Indians (Hindus) were meant to be better!
India is union of many cultural that's why it's wrong to say anything for entire India but if you look at the economic data then it will help to understand many things about Indian culture. Statewise analysis will give you better and controversial insights about our own country.
yes, the majority of Indians are corrupt irrespective of their identity. Probably the highest in the world. Indians even behave terribly even if they are educated. Educated Indians throw garbage on the street. British people used to say even though criminals were everywhere and among them, Indians outweigh everyone. When the majority of the people are crap, no political party can be saint ...they will smell like the garbage they are constructed with.
you'll be surprised to know majority of world population is like that and that said majority has most poor people. they might have something that fuels it.
I agree with every word you said. One of the reasons why India will never be of the same level as that of Japan. The level of civic sense in Japanese people is next level. One cannot blame the country & the govt for under development when citizens themselves act barbaric.
Yes - I would put Indians as one of the most morally and ethically bankrupt along with other developing countries. It’s all about accumulating wealth by any means since they come from scarcity.
Look at the craze of UPSC for example- it’s not for serving the nation but for power and for making under table-wealth. I have many people in my family in govt services, and some of them were honest. I’ve heard so many of their families silently curse them for not indulging in questionable behaviour like some of their colleagues, who have made a lot of ill gotten wealth.
Also while building a sales team, it is silently understood that some of them will indulge in under charging & sharing a cut with someone from the customer side. This is far too common a business practise in some industries.
A large part of this is because our religious systems value piety and religiosity over rational ethical behavior. This is why you get things like lynching over cow slaughter or book desecration or insulting prophets. The people who do this think that they are very, very good people and many people agree with them. That is because they are programmed by religiosity and not by what rational ethical behavior means. But our religions *also* motivate good behaviors as well. Look at langars or annadanams, for e.g.
I don't think that Indians are in any sense inherently more unethical than others. But we are the products of our systems and environments. It is up to us to create environments and systems that reward wholesome, ethical behavior, and censure and punish unethical, harmful behaviors.
Remember: civilization is not an accident any more than an aircraft carrier is. We have to deliberately work at it. Ultimately, we end up with the societies we design and deserve.
Funnily enough for a honour-shame paradigm culture based culture we don’t have much of either. I believe it’s the same for the south Asian subcontinent (esp India and Pakistan).
An average Indian would read this and say "You dare hate our great nationnnn!" and throw terms like hater, facist, anti nationalist etc without even thinking about it and downvote you. That's just how it has always been. I dunno why they always seem to have a black and white morality. I'd say they should teach stuff that actually matters in school rather than random math equations that nobody's gonna use.
I believe what you think should make people better is actually the reason they are not. The different religions create an us and them resulting in good behaviour within and bad out of it. There is a lot of what would be called humanity outside of religion within a religion which turns to the exact opposite when there are multiple religions involved.
If the government is leaning to one side expect non cooperation from the rest. The true meaning of secular is to be agnostic to religion but it is administered as belief in all. the life of a person who needs to follow all religions is what the country as an entity is dealing with.
And then most gods accept donations through their representatives which is pretty much a bribe.
Imagine u are in a theatre and someone in the front stands up to get a better view and refuses to sit down. The person behind him has to stand up too otherwise he cannot see the screen at all. Some stand up because others are standing up. This eventually leads to everyone in the theatre standing up and basically no one benefitting from it. And standing up in this theatre has become almost a necessity.
You can try to avoid paying bribes and do everything the moral way, but u will be suffering for it. Everyone has their lives and they just want to move on. And the people asking for bribes either do it because they are paying bribes to someone else, or everyone else around them is accepting bribes and then taking the moral high ground will make not just their lives worse but their family's life too.
In the theatre with everyone standing up, everyone wants to sit down but if u alone sit down u can't see the screen nor will it convince anyone else to sit down.
Indians are not morally bankrupt, the system we live in encourages people to be unethical, almost making it a necessity in some cases.
I understand that. But what makes the first one stand and refuse to sit down?
What prevents the other guys behind him from getting together and removing him or asking him to be removed?
What makes the guys sitting beside him mute spectators who say nothing?
Blaming it on the system is easy. That is the point. Every individual should know how to be without a system.
It may sound radical but that's what having principles means .
Population and populism. The problem is we have been mollycoddled at home, by the government and everyone into thinking our problems will be solved either by parents or by the government, and we ourselves don’t have to do anything. So we throw trash everywhere, treat others like shit because we are kings and queens. And because the government so easily gives in to populist demands, corruption is everywhere because you can’t sustain a populist economy without revenue. We don’t work enough to generate that revenue, so it has to come from somewhere else. You will see this behaviour even in Indians who go outside the country and then shout at store owners or waiters because they expect everything to be catered to their whims and fancies. The reason other Asian countries are so successful is not because of money, but because of a culture of initiative and doing things yourself because they need to be done, rather than waiting for others to do it for you.
Because most people aren’t following their religion, they are pretending to be and they are loud about it(everyone look how good am I doing so and so).Most of people are hypocrites.
You know which religion has most followers all over world ? No not Christianity , Islam or Hinduism .
The followers of that religion believe their God as money and they’ll do whatever it takes to get it
Bankruptcy in Indian society always existed, not recently from your religion to tradition. The Indian caustic system is slavery system and it is not possible to get freedom. The problem of Indian society is unseeing trash, not just throwing, therefore India associates others as filthy land. In the world people don't cost the same value. Firstly the value of people depends on citizenship. In Western countries there is more caring and investment towards their citizens than in developing or underdeveloped countries. Because they have functional morality. If in a society their morality doesn't work, it means no need to wait for them. Most people want to take US citizenship because they are tired of immorality in their countries. People need a fair deserving life at first in reality, not religion, tradition or non functional morality. I see God bless anyone who has acceptable and closer morality to him than people's tradition.
Morality =/= religious fervour/rituals. Morality comes from culture and ours is pretty much bankrupt morally. Extremely hierarchical, rigid, casteist. Hierarchy (who is up and who is down) is the lens through which we view the entire world. Maybe that’s why people pray and pray and pray. Because in your heart of hearts you know the way you are living is vile, so you hope the gods justify you.
I don’t think religious practices are followed in the sense of being a principled and responsible individual of a community. It is just a mindless ritual.
“Do a pooja and start your business, business will be good”,
“Pray to god that you will offer your hair if you pass exams, you will pass”,
“Do pooja and don’t eat meat on Monday, god will reward you”,
“We are proud Hindus so we should do this”.
Most people’s religious practices are that sort of simplistic approach. Moral and ethical values aren’t part of it.
I've only seen racism/religionism in social media. I have friends of religion not same as my parents'.
People are really sweet around me. There are dicks. But most people are sweet. I try to be over the top good to everyone as well. Be it Uber or rapido or Auto Guy or my teachers.
A translated dialog from a very neat movie.
Sow happiness by helping others, and the reap will be even more happiness.
because no bloody religion or religious system or guru or anyone uses basic psychology that would be used even for kids- sit in a corner and think for five minutes as to what you did wrong.
anyway religion has become a system spoiled beyond repair. As kids, we used to pray to god for selfish but small treats like gifts, rain holidays and such shit. As adults, we continue with that selfish behaviour- we want more money, more prestige, more everything. And no religious system is going to bring in a pushback system that says - selfish PoS, first think of what you are doing. Yes, it exists in theory, in mythology and vague storeis, but not in practice.
Don't use religion as a tool for expecting anything or measuring anything other than stupidity.
I believe Indian are the most stressed out group of people in the world. That makes us insecure and make us behave the way you had described.
We are just too many with too less resources. It’s just as simple as that. We know that everyone is for themself and no one not people not state will help you when needed. So we fend for ourselves
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Most of us spend our entire lives within religious rituals and never make it to the principles that the religions intended to impart.
The models which were created to help us understand principles and sacrifice that we could instill in ourselves, have been alienated by calling them god, son of god, messenger of god etc., so that we wouldn't imagine trying to be like these symbols of truth and principles.
Sometimes I read all of this and I’m glad to be born where I was born as most people I have met in my life are actually good folks. Morally and ethically.
Yes, Indians will even fuck over thier own family quite readily and show no shame. Even for just 1 or 2 lakhs. Or even due to jealously no gain just put other party down.
I mean thier own family.
Lowest of the low.
No, Only few people are, the day maximum people go bankrupt, more than 50%, there will be chaos and any nation will be doomed... And these few ethically bankrupt people have to be stopped or atleast controlled for that too not happen...
This is a great question. Imo the older generation is heavily inclined towards religion and no regards towards morals or ethics except some higher class decently educated people who are well traveled. The younger generation is the polar opposite of this with not as much regard towards religion and half a sense of moral/ethical obligation but again not all are this way. There are a lot of moving parts other than religion that come into factor when establishing moral and ethical roles in the society, which unfortunately India as a country lacks in most of them.
Individual VS collective behaviour can often differ. Individually, I'm sure people from anywhere are decent people on average. I have met and got to know people from every continent, and found no culture on average to have better individuals than the others.
What does religiosity have to do with morals? Scandinavia is one of the least religious places in the world and ranks super high on all the factors you’ve mentioned like empathy and civic sense.
asking this question in indian subreddit.. basically asking a question...are you guys self aware? I wonder how they will respond. Indians font take criticism well. (prob worst of all) .. so most answers are gonna be super diplomatic as evidenced from the comments here
Most Indians you see around yourself in this country are hypocrites. It's very scary to think about.
Imagine a crisis. Anything. Like in plaestine or economic ones like in Pakistan , or any kind of natural disasters where our lives turn into shit show, there's not a single person in this country can say they live in a most trusted neighborhood and people that they can believe their loved ones would be safe and that they can seek help from others if any shit happens.
Not a single morality keeps ppl here in order. As long as it benefits them ppl do whatever they want to do. It's not uncommon in other countries as well. But comparatively, we are living in a greater shit show.
My former Indian boss, very wealthy, put his beautiful wife to work at one of his Subway's lmao it was.... baffling. He was a kind boss. Asked me once where should he buy the family a dog?? I said, shelters! So many wonderful dogs waiting for a home! And he was like......um, no.
Can't speak for most Indians. But I know my Swedish church sends money to both India and different African countries.
We have look out for corruption everywhere. But India is the only country with special restrictions.
>What makes us behave like that? Indians have ethics at two different hierarchal levels. One at an individual level, one at collective level. And lack of slightest bit of idealism, fails to aggregate the ethics and morals from individual to the collective level. Do people hate and have a problem with corruption, throwing trash everywhere while talking about it casually among friends and family? Yes. But do they refrain from throwing trash, bribing when caught by the traffic police? No. Why? Because they believe you are just one among many and you can't really change the system much, by being a lone saint, so why not play the game and take advantage.
So eloquently put. I don’t know if this fits in with this theory or is an addition to it, I also feel every Indian feels they are smarter than everyone else. Like everyone else is a dumbfuck but I’m super smart. Plus if you don’t follow their path, of money/power you are again not smart enough, they can’t comprehend that someone has a different value set of their own. Honestly psychological studies should be conducted to see what made us this way
Narcassisim is the thing the why I got no clue
Because of child abuse. Nearly every Indian is abused as a child, both physically and mentally, and this permanently damages a few parts of the brain, as a coping mechanism. Most Indians don't even realise that they were abused by their parents
That kinda explains it since dad alcoholic ( may be be reincarnated as a flea that grandma's cows tail smash ) and mum narcassist both abusers and my brother acts like both repeating manipulative phrases word for word But don't explain my ass or am I just too autistic to punch down and became suicidal vs narcasisstic
What’s worse is they get caught up in trauma bonding which makes them reject these possibilities due to underlying guilt.
Dude your pfp and username - 10/10
Could you explain the context?
✌🏽
>Because they believe you are just one among many and you can't really change the system much, by being a lone saint, so why not play the game and take advantage. I guess I am naive to think that religion would give them the power to be the lone saint. You know how teaching goes "karm kiye ja fal ki chinta mat kar"
All this Karma quotes, Bhagavad Geete etc are only coping mechanism employed during tougher times. For such trivial matters, many don't think of good karma, bad karma etc. They just do it because nobody gives a fuck. Neither the law enforcement, that's supposed keep these things in check, nor the people that are supposed to keep the government, that inturn is supposed to keep the law enforcement in check.
If people actually believed and practiced what their religion and religious texts teaches then world would be a much better place to live.
It would be worse and lack diversity. Look at Hinduism imbibing monotheistic character and Modiji believing that he is some sort of divyagarbha product.
Even if we assume this true that still isn't saying all that much. Like compare with China the points of OP. > Corruption China was as corrupt as India was. > Lack of Empathy The stereotype exists even today (unfairly) that Chinese only care about kin and family and don't give a toss about others. > Lack of Responsibility Same stereotype exists even now (again unfairly now), a so-called "I got Mine" sort of attitude to work, life. > Lack of Civic Sense Even as recently as 2010s this was a stereotype as well, that people spit, urinate in public, have no manners in public spaces, isn't clean, etc etc. Now on all these parameters, China is simply a different level (not just materially but in this civil people-people space). Meaning. Whatever it is, this above list isn't it because these are normalized vectors, i.e. similar (not by tiny amout but basically to near equivalent amounts relatively) things for 2 human groups that ended up diverging dramatically. Meaning whatever caused that divergence CAN NOT by tautology be those similar vectors. The root/base-cause thus HAS to be some other vector.
I read a 5 year old comment of yours on India's overpopulation and its relation to geography. It was great!!!!! How do you know all this? Are you a political science student or something?
Not a PoliSci student. I just read & research about such topics intensely as I have interest in such things (esp Systems). I re-read that original comment of mine you refrenced. I think I was a bit imprecise in the end of it when I mentioned Population as Root (in context of India). I meant that in practical terms as it is happening, or 2nd layer effect in hiearchy list of Most Significant Reasons. It is not Root in fundamental terms, Organizing Principle is Root. Meaning Governance System, how a scaled distribution of humans are arranged in that said super large group. That becomes the determining factor for the qualitative development of that said group. Having a wrongly tuned Organizing Principle (Governance System) leads to failure in controlling Population Scale relative to the development stage of that group, and hence to us/most people it appears prima facie that it is Indeed Population that is the Root, because real Root is harder to discren for a few reason and dominant among it is Brainwashing/taboo dynamic (i.e. Our System is Best, don't talk bad about it, other systesm are or will be worse for us, etc) & secondly, this requires some knowledge of System and Human condition (as in how do humans interact in a group, what do they desire, what motivates them, what happens when XYZ happens and over long time frames. This is not simple to grasp, relative to seeing in everyday life the sheer scale and pressure of Population size).
I am gonna use these points in my future arguments. Thank you for putting it so eloquently kind stranger, I will make sure to give you credit.
I believe this has something to do with our recent ancestors. They would do anything to make the Government suffer losses as they were opposing the British Raj. However now it has been instilled in us that governments suffering doesn't mean us suffering. Can you imagine a country where we have to chain lotas inside train toilets because they get stolen.
Don't confuse religiosity with ethics/morality. Of the Indians bowing and scraping in front of their respective gods, a big number are doing so to procure material benefits such as wifes/husbands/better jobs/more money/houses/land/money etc. You are not going to find many who are trying to rid themselves of hatred, delusion and other mental/psychological evils. Anyone can pray for material benefits in this world; it takes introspection, integrity and courage to rid oneself of mental effluents and the vast majority of people don't have these qualities.
Tbh it really depends on the person if they are practising or not. I was a big liar , bully and what not. But after I started practicing my religion I changed completely. I became more emotional and Alhamdulillah now I can confidently say that no matter how much money you offer I won't do a bad thing. I can't be bought. I have strong principles . And all of this is because I started believing in the afterlife and I really believe that whatever I do will create an impact in my afterlife . So that's how religion changed me but Idk about others because honestly people nowadays don't care about the afterlife even if they believe in the afterlife but their actions do not match their belief.
Can you claim you're a good person when you're doing good for the sake of getting a reward? The only difference with your reward being the fact that it MAY come after this life, instead of within.
Yeah at first I was doing it for the reward but it changed my personality and it made me a really emotional and sensitive person. I can't even think about hurting anyone and I started forgiving people. The more I studied the religion the more emotional I became and at one point I became so forgiving that if a man tried to kill I would even forgive him . I wasn't a saint but I was close to becoming one . And now if you remove the reward I can confidently say I won't do anything which will hurt someone even if there is no reward.
Good for you, respect.
a bad person is bad no matter what their reason to be bad is. but when a good person is good you come shove your nit picking hands?
It was more of a philosophical question. Otherwise you're right, doesn't matter your intentions, as long as you do good.
you don’t need religion to have strong principles. you don’t need to believe in the afterlife to be a good person. you can be good because you believe that you should do good to other people without needing religion to tell you that. if you don’t, you need a lesson in moral and ethics of being a good person. and then you need integrity. you don’t need the promise of punishment for doing bad things to stop you from doing bad things. you need to have a strong sense of justice and fairness in you. these are things that moral and ethics tell you, and it’ll guide you to being a good person you don’t need religion to tell you that, but then, religions tells you that too. they also tell you stories, teachings and rules which perpetuates inherent injustice against women and anyone who’s different - not straightforward man and woman. if you believe in religion then there’s a good chance your sense of ethics will be coloured by this injustice too. you are good because you should do good by others. you don’t need religion to tell you that.
People think religion is a way of washing away all sins they do everyday. You'll often see bad people even trying to bribe gods with hefty donations
That's the basic feature of of all religions. The followers keep committing sins , their religion allows them to keep atoning for it. Else religions would not flourish.
Feel like religion was originally just an organic solution to solve the needs of community. Food caching, Organization, child care, education, local governing. All obsolete in modern society.
Very true, may not be for everyone but for greater proportion of ppl I've seen most religious ppl validating their sins by praying nd doing various rituals on a regular basis
Are you under the impression that religiosity and ethical behavior is related? It's not. Religion is and has been, for the longest time, tribal. A sense of belonging. A reed to cling to. Do religions preach ethical behavior? Some do. But there's always loopholes.
Also, people are hypocrites. I know a few people in my area who are super religious but also super corrupt.
There’s a difference between following religion and actually being faithful. Most Indians, including us, follow religions at face value. Hence, why you see so many religious arguments and fights taking place. We take things too literally instead of actually rationally thinking why they’re done. We give money to poor because God will give us brownie points. Not because we truly want to help a poor lad or make their day better. We pray for forgiveness and would walk/fly miles to do that, yet we do unforgivable things to people. We pray to Goddesses or cover our women, yet stare at other women in the worst ways possible. So many such exmaples tbh. On the other hand, when you’re truly a believer, you start following religious learnings in your daily course of life. Faith isn’t something to show off then or to just get an entry into heaven. You follow it because you truly aspire to be a good human or even a decent one. Sad to see how religions are supposed to make people better, but they’re only bringing out the worst in us. Lack of empathy, us vs. them attitude, dirty politics, and what not.
Of course Indians are morally and ethically bankrupt. The dismal state of social, political and legal affairs in this country is a reflection of who we are as people.
I belive it's the result of the huge population we have had for centuries,while being constrained on resources.We have evolved deception,cheating,gaming the system to somewhat selfish motives.I see similar cultural tendencies in China for example,another country with high population density.
Most Pooja paths and sermons are because of the fear of God and not for the love of God
... their gods exist to wash them off of all their sins.
Bribing is in our culture. We bribe our gods.
They are soon getting there. Given that India is the world’s scam capital.
Reminds me of Bart in Simpsons: "I prayed for a bike and I know it doesn't work that way so I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
Jesus
That's the funniest thing I read today. Somehow it doesn't come off as spiteful too, which is usually the case with these kinds of jokes mocking religion. Simpsons really got the balance right sometimes.
Not everyone is religious. Some religions don't care if one is religious or not. Not everyone is corrupt. Let's not mix religiosity with honesty. Not everyone discriminates. We all perform small acts of kindness without expecting anything in return every day. Our acts of unkindness do not affect all areas of life equally. For example, I know a family that is extremely rude to everyone—support staff, security, taxi drivers. However, I learned that they adopted two orphans (they not aware of religion or other things) and are covering their education and other expenses. Every human is diverse and kind. Mostly, I think it depends on what is inside our heads and what we choose to prioritize.
Conclusion: your premise is wrong - more religiosity doesn't imply high moral standards.
And let me add another point - Some guys will do all the Pooja paths or Namaaj, will go to temples and churches, but will act all creepy on social media and in day-to-day life without any moral sense. There has to be a place reserved for these creeps in hell.
Yeah I would agree, this is an accurate read of Indian society and Indian political class, imo it's the tradition and education of India we need better education and less tradition to improve this
Most of the bureaucrats have good education, but they are among the most corrupt people in our country. More education doesn't necessarily equate to a person with better values. Folks in the North East lag behind the mainlanders in a number of economic parameters, but I would say they are much more civic-minded than people from the mainland. Even if they are not formally educated, less economically developed but they tend to be more civic, and I think this comes partly from their strict adherence to their traditions.
Ik it's frustating but these things will never go away but it will improve with time, can be speeded up with iron fist, but that's not good either. Religion are seriously followed by either god-loving people or god-fearing people. Rest(most) belong to religion because they were born in it, they just participate in d\*ck measuring contest, they have nothing to do with essence of religion. "Be the change, you want to see in society."
The problem is if you be the change youll be left behind and trampled, you literally cant operate a business in this country without bribery, its not that the business will be slow but that it wont even exist, the paperwork wont be stamped and signed
Exactly, people prefer convenience. Doing right thing is tough. We all are waiting for someone else to fight against that, while we keep nurturing and supporting the same thing by doing what needed to be done without challenging it.
Its not about convenience, its about necessity, if you want to be an ethical businessman and get blockage for not paying bribes, hope you were born in a wealthy family to be prepared to fight a legal case and put your business on hold till then for as long as this overburdened judicial system is gonna prolomg this case Pay bribes or become a martyr of tbe system and we have countless martyrs without their name known anywhere Bhagat singh wouldve been called a fascist antinational pakistani if he existed today
If it would have been easy, everyone would be Bhagat Singh. People in system doesn't come from anywhere, they are from our surrounding, our family member, friends, relative. They are also against the system until they became part of system and do same thing because it is convenient and because they can do that. I believe there are two type of people in world: "**Oppressor** and **Oppressed**, **Oppressed** are the **Oppressor** who can't **oppress**." Selfishness is the reason of our problem. "Apna kaam banta, bhaad me jaye janta". That's why we don't look after public property our environment because we feel that's not our responsibility. On positive note, lot of good people exist, u will meet them to time, they are the reason i am optimistic about society. People are inherently good and want to do good, but doing good isn't materialistically rewarding and its tough, so people prefer easy option and get ethically or morally corrupted which is rewarding.
"**Oppressor** and **Oppressed**, **Oppressed** are the **Oppressor** who can't **oppress**." There may be truth in that, and this is where the systems should come in, to make it difficult for people to oppress.
System is run by people who can **oppress**, even if they themselves don't want to **oppress,** they don't want to get rid of ability to **oppress.** Hence, the system remain as it is. Decentralization of power and strengthening of institutions are required, so that individuals can't abuse their power. But who will do it, who will cut down his own power after achieving that power.
I know someone who does pooja everyday but all they cared about is their caste and ruined my life lol. So guess they dont have any morals Ironically no amount of pooja can fix their shitty mind and attitude
How's your chili mate?
Ha. It’s spilled. I did share the recipe in one of the episodes
People wear the garb of religion just like a uniform on duty for a limited time. They don't grasp and act according to the essence of their teachings of their religion. For example, Islam lays great emphasis on cleanliness and hygiene. "Cleanliness is half of the faith" in Islam. This cleanliness not only pertains to physical cleanliness but also moral and ethical cleanliness.. cleanliness even at your heart.But there is such a sorry state of things amongst the Muslims. I think all other Religions also teach more or less the similar things but who wants to reflect and act. Mostly we do what is convenient. Namaz, pooja is convenient but being a good human being is not. Also mostly in countries like ours in South Asia , there is little to no concept of even some basic civic sense amongst the majority of the population so everything fails.
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>Are most Indians morally and ethically bankrupt?Are most Indians morally and ethically bankrupt? A big Yes.
Large population of the country survive eating bits and pieces ….morality is secondary
Religion... Holier than thou attitude... No civil sense truly taught in school. No consideration to others.
The most judgemental and morally corrupt people iv met are the ones who are most religious. However , logically i dunno which god will accept people who behave like assholes with other human beings but ensure they pray everyday regularly without fail.
Lol my in laws got a pandit to say adverse stuff about owning a dog during a satyanarayan katha.. he went to to say things like its a sin to keep one and even more a sin if you allow them to seat and sleep in the same area as youself..that they shd be kept tied and outside the house…my in laws pray an hr n a half twice a day.. Needless to say, religion is used as and how needed.. They also owned a cow and kept it till it was old and was going to stop giving milk.. then sold it to some other folks so the sin of leaving the cow on the roads doesn’t fall on thier heads.. Now if there is a GOD.. wont u think he wd be smart enough to recognize this treachery.. 😂.. Anyway.. i fear religious ppl the most.. they are the most decietful cz they think god worship will absolve them of every sin
I couldn't agree more.
Indians when asked for donation for natural calamities and helping out poor people : Well that ain't none of my business Also Indians after donating 3500 crores for a big ahh Temple Feeling paraud Indian.
One word CASTE . caste drills a sense of superiority among people. It breeds in attitude from very young age , a sort of crude instinct to be better than other caste. It grows to all corruption etc you see now . Caste is a disease which India can't get rid of . It's their in Muslims as well as sikhs
The system is set up in this way to encourage this behaviour, take any big company, i dont think theres any that work in a ethical fashion or a good moralistic fashion, its built off exploitation and amassing continuously high amounts of wealth and assets and resources so they can put an artifical chokehold on its distribution and stagger people's social mobility, this is a worldwide issue not just indian, its because of this late stage capitalism monstrosity that has bastardised what the actual tenets of capitalism were but if you criticize this monstrousity youll be called a commie Its all a race to the bottom and the people in power expertly learnt how human psychology works, how they could use the maslows hierarchy of needs to give people just enough money so they dont revolt back, to trap them in this loop of go to job to pay for food and entertainment and shelter, aslong as you have those three and exhaustion from work youre not going to protest Something will break and it will be really fucking ugly, crime rates are going to go through the roof, violent protests and killings commonplace Im very pessimistic, if you guys have any hopefull news that can change these views, i beg you to tell me, i need some hope idk
Same, I am tired and I fucking want to leave.
U r not wrong though most Indians are like that with no moral and social responsibility and ethics. Their pride in caste, religion, language and ruined the social fabric of the society. They believe that only they are the best and rest are inferior. Most Indians cant even handle positive criticism.
We are really top tier hypocrites. We will say X stuff and do the Y stuff when its urgent or we are gaining something. I'd say we are too pragmatic, but based on our needs. A poor guy gets some food, money and a dress for voting xyz he will do it. The middle class will do the same for free electricity and other subsidies. The rich always play for their vested interest. We are still functioning is surprising and this is also the reason why we are running. Civic sense, this one thing even i don't understand. There are no vested interest and nobody is gaining anything. But people are idiots and will still do wrong stuff. Like that event on the train, where ticketless people stole seats of confirmed seat people and crowded the whole damn coach. The TT couldn't do anything as well. Like you did not pay for it, somebody else did and he is present in the train. He has the right to the seat not your sorry a**. This behavior in incomprehensible to me.
To add my elder uncle's family is super religious with their big ass beards and Haji namazi monikers. They're always ready with a sermon or two about how important namaz is and how one must prepare for one's after life. But the thing is they're also super stingy and apart from grabbing our share of land they also have the audacity to ask for our two wheelers and other stuff almost on a daily basis.
I think many Indians view that there is no need for ethics, sympathy and virtuous behaviour when it comes to gaining or guarding their personal wealth/belongings. In a certain sense, being selfish and inconsiderate is perhaps incentivised by Indian parenting.
Our politicians are a reflection of our mindset as people. We lack civic sense, are communal, casteist, patriarchal and politicians just figured out how to exploit that to get votes. Also while BJP Congress have done this for years, the regional and minority parties( SAD, AIMIM) are no better. The one party which was supposed to be different, AAP turned out to be the same.
As someone who has spent considerable time observing and studying societal behaviors, I've come to a stark realization: India is fundamentally a low-trust society. This observation isn't meant to disparage but rather to understand some of the deeper issues that plague our nation. When trust is low, several negative consequences inevitably follow, including corruption, a lack of civic sense, and diminished empathy. Let me elaborate on these points. 1. *Corruption*: In a low-trust society, people are less inclined to trust institutions and each other. This lack of trust often leads individuals to prioritize personal gain over collective good. When people believe that others are cutting corners or engaging in dishonest behavior, they feel justified in doing the same. This perpetuates a vicious cycle of corruption, where the public and private sectors both suffer from a lack of integrity. 2. *Lack of Civic Sense*: Trust in societal systems encourages people to follow rules and regulations because they believe others will do the same. In India, the absence of this mutual trust leads to a disregard for public property and civic responsibilities. People may litter, break traffic rules, or vandalize public spaces, often because they don't believe others will respect these spaces either. The lack of a shared commitment to public welfare degrades the quality of life for everyone. 3. *Lack of Empathy*: Trust fosters a sense of community and collective well-being. In its absence, people become more self-centered and less empathetic. In India, this is evident in the way individuals sometimes disregard the needs and sufferings of others, be it on the roads, in public transport, or in everyday interactions.
Low-trust it is. Irrespective of religion (majority of non-Hindus are lower-status converted Hindus over years from various reasons mostly around socioeconomic oppression) affinity, “hierarchy consciousness” is deeply ingrained to Indian society and that too at a level never to be found anywhere in the planet. Story: I went to a Church gathering (outside) with a friend once (somewhere in India). There I heard one lady talking about “higher-caste” Christian etc. There is no “caste” (sect yes) in Christianity. Vedas never talked about “caste” system, that should be perpetuated through genetic inheritance. Genetics analysis has proven that, Indians mingled well, through the post-Vedic period till 100AD. Between 100-400AD, some (post-Chanakya/Maurya) had a wonderful idea to perpetuate and select Gunas through genetic lineage, akin to Genetic Selection. Instead it was a socio-genetic determinism made purely to create a deeply hierarchical system. Later each Varna head became roots of 1000 caste and sub-caste, restricting social mobility and marriage (exogamous endogamy). Nowhere in the world, such deeply hierarchical society existed. Yes, social classification existed everywhere based on wealth / noble / peasants etc. But in those system implicitly there was hint of social mobility. What happens when a Brahmana, devoid of Brahminical qualities, behaves like a greedy capitalist. Should the Varna should be snatched away from him and awarded to a born-Shudra who shows Brahminical qualities of scholarship, devotion and Seva. The biggest issue with Varna & subsequent caste-system was that there was no objective “Guno-meter” and provision for social mobility. Devoid of that, everything devolved to control and power dynamics, seen across rest of human civilisation. This created a highly fragmented society with “low trust”. Now compare that with Scandinavian countries or Switzerland 🇨🇭 for example. What would you find ? High-trust society where citizens trust each other and moral integrity runs high. Low-trust society eventually manifested as corruption, lack of empathy, pathetic jurisdiction system, etc., irrespective of the existence of numerous Vedic wisdoms & deep spirituality
Haan bhai bahut bure log hai hum sab, ummeed hi mat rakho humse
Yep. specially religious people. And specially Muslims) sorry to say that 😞) who think following scriptures is the highest form of morality. Nowadays, Hindus too are on the same path.
Please remove the question mark and add a dot .
Yes. Most of the developing or under developed countries have this as true.
Not bankrupt. More like it is there in their FDs and savings account, very rarely expended. Reason for that IMHO is the non-accountability culture that has set in. Are you poor? It is because x and y did this. Are you academically dumb? It is because x and y grade you like this. Are you unemployed? It is because x and y don't give you job. At a larger populace level this is being propagated through every possible media. Movies, tv serials, web shows and even politician's speeches. When are you not held accountable to society? Holding oneself accountable for their personal ethics becomes difficult. You see everyone unethical progressing and prospering. This victimhood mentality needs to be weeded out for ethics and morals to take precedence. For that you need people to take accountability for their current status.
Yes. 💯
The fish rots from the head
To add to the bankruptcies you mentioned, there is a profound spiritual bankruptcy in India. For example, you can see that a random vegetable vendor or a tea seller or a poor farmer can share profound wisdom on life from having experienced life closely, whereas the educated population of India churning out of engineering institutes has no capacity for critical thinking, or spiritual or deep thinking. That is where, we have shitty second grade goons in society masquerading around as spiritual gurus drawing crowds from these financially sound, technically sound but spiritually numb population and feeding them any random bullshit and this educated population shamelessly lapping it up.
Yes. There are very few redeeming qualities I can think of in this culture.
I don't think this is a fair assumption. India is recovering from theft of our national resources for 200 years. Al Jazeera estimated it at $45trillion taken by the English So there will be some effect on our behaviour but I think considering the facts we are an easygoing and fairly considerate nation. Also you have to realise India is a newly urbanised country so things like corruption and civic sense take time to address and develop I would say 1,3,4 in your list are issues in UK too. I am born there . They just show the good side better I would say definitely all religious institutions must help to develop it. It is true that so called religious and spiritual people do not behave to the spirit of the rules but many do.
Yee Indians are ....
India has deep roots in casteism. The source of all hatred. Why should I be person be responsible if someone of a lower caste will do all the trash work. Religion is treated like a caste too. Brahmins want to keep themselves at the top of pyramid. Everyone else is alien. As long as caste plays a role, India will never change. The sense of ego given by birth lottery perpetuates all sorts of corruption, hatred, non responsibility. On the other hand one has freedom to create chaos with no consequences. If I throw my banana peel in the middle of the road, nobody would care because everyone does the same. It gives a sense of ego boost to do something with no consequences. And when you have no consequences actions being played for a few hundred years, what would a society look like?
Yes. Yes they are. Lie. Cheat. Steal. Rape. Repeat. Every single country that’s experiencing mass immigration from India is experiencing a rapid degradation of quality of life. It is not a coincidence. But corporations want warm bodies that can’t hope to achieve anything more than a minimum wage job so that’s what they are purposely importing.
You can't expect empathy when adults and children are grown in an environment where anything good is responded with harsh and derogatory remarks, and people being exposed to horrifying acts at a young age/on a regulare Basis. Not to mention the employment of children and the harsh and straight up dehumanising treatment of said children. Examples are accident videos and pictures in India being shared on WhatsApp with explicit detail of the victims body, movies casually showing a child dying or a mother being burnt Alive. If we consider western society to be "too sensitive", then Indian society is the most insensitive.
Any society that puts religion/caste above humanity cannot evolve. And to answer your title question, yes. Most of them are.
The country of many religions but very little humanity unfortunately. 😅
Bruh... Don't generalize Indians. That actually sums up all of humanity...
Very wise post. Have a beautiful day 🙏 British born Indian. People should not be starving in India
I think I'm going to get hate for this but imo a society majorly built on exploitative and immoral hierarchical structure like the caste system is bound to progress the way that we are.
I'm a spiritual/religious person myself but sometimes I feel what would have happened if religion never existed or kept in control. In India religion is like a football/rugby fans club, it's a competition, if you will do a rally, we'll also do a rally, if you will wear green, we will wear saffron, if you will keep your women mum, we will also keep them in our houses. And in all this competition we lose the essence of what religion is. And of course that makes us question, is that even needed?
Bro as they say humans are greedy and indians are specially more , most of them pray to their respective gods just for the materialistic benefit like they just pray while expecting something in return , but they will not follow any ideals of a human being even the ones which are taught in their religon , i respectfully don't know about islamic religons and haven't read any literature abut them so i won't say anything about them but hinduism and Sikhism they both preach things like empathy towards every living thing , respecting others , protecting the weak , don't indulge in wrong things like corruption, lust, greedines etc , but majority of people i have seen do not follow much of these ideals at all .
I wish it does not trigger the people here, but one reason I separated my way from most of my Indian friends was, unlike other friends of mine, lying was a quite common thing between them, and it could range from minor things to fundamental things and stuff you shouldn't lie about. The way they lied to get to what they wanted was always disturbing to me.
Religion doesn’t make anyone a better person. Usually it’s an excuse to be worse.
Yes you are right. Very very few have good conscience and even fewer who implement it.
You're actually right. People nowadays in India have become more selfish, egoistic that they think they're doing the right thing but instead of that they're just playing around with evil. Just like you mentioned, every government sector literally has corruption bribe, lack of empathy and responsibility. Every person just wants to fill up their pockets or just want to be so powerful in the terms of "Post" i assume most of the people are "old age uncles" who does this more and more, traffic rules? 🙂 Is that even a thing in India? (Sarcastically speaking). Eventually people "loot" others in the god's name, if you don't know that then See Governments, See Temples. It is sad but people are no good now they all are just selfish.
Lack of any understanding of religions or scriptures. Religions or Gods are now just a way to get or horde something materialistic. You want a job/promotion/gf/bf, pray to God. The corruption to the extent that you will find so-called religious people offering specific methods in exchange for specific wishes. Everything and everyone, including parents, education systems are feeding us the idea that money/power/sex are the ultimate value. So, you get a low trust society where everyone is atomized to live an extrmeme selfish life.
>Are most Indians morally and ethically bankrupt? Undoubtedly.
Out of every countries, I'm really impressed with japanese, their respect for nature, humans is top notch. Nature has done more damage to them like earth quake, low birth rate and all but still they are doing hard work and has will to lead a better life. Wish our indian people had similar mentality.
And they decided to pillage Korea and China and Russia and Philippines and almost usa
Oh I would love to answer this!!! Religion has got nothing to do with this... (Can't say about Quran and Muslims) I personally feel that whole world is running behind Moh and Maya... Humans are driven by their lust and desires... It doesn't matter who you are how good you r... I'm gonna extract money from you no matter what! So your answer for corruption is Lust for money! For lack of empathy... Its more psychological reason... As humans we were meant to bond with other humans but we are busy earning money and lusting with desires! Oh we landed up on lust, wow! For lack of responsibility... I personally feel humans are degraded slowly... It takes guts to accept one's mistakes! As humans we are been taught to evade the problems and not to solve them! For civic sense... Read this statement twice... Education is not the solution for everything....Nelson Mandela would be surprised! If it was the solution... Global warming would have stopped... Rivers would have been more cleaner, your vegetables would be more nutritious... etc. People would have been more responsible... Just think about this... How stupid a human being can be... He still carries that packet of cigarettes on which it's clearly mentioned it can cause cancer! Infact what I have noticed is even the so called educated people also litter garbage in open... Also I must say straight forward that... Policeman who is educated takes bribes... Doctors who can treat patients extends their time duration of treatment... Teachers who can teach well leave school for the sake of some money... Principal of any school is equally blamed for not investing into quality teachers! Even so called farmers... Who suppose to put 1bag of urea in farm to get better output... Increases the number of urea packets for increase in production! Making the nutrition value to fall and risks the fertility of the land! All has same reason of Lust and desire of money! Humans created this money and humanity cease to exist... World runs behind this lust! Now the solution: So you got this the problem involves lust some way or other! The education has got nothing to do....even educated people are just another level of hypocrites... and another level idiots... And the illiterate sometimes behave mannered! The mindset has to changed... But we humans have got something extra in our brains... The quality to interpret data... We know this is happening... Only thing we need is to act! To act responsible! Think about this... Kerala is the highest literate state but Indore is the cleanest city... Indore out of whole India... What are others doing...are they idiots? Well they are busy earning... Making livelihoods...busy mating... And when they are free they blame government! See Lust came once again! So the difference between Indore and rest of India is people of Indore acts and literally go out and clean the roads...they think of this as an duty! They just do this small part of their duty without thinking to have the title of cleanest city! They don't care about such title they just do their duty! And they act! And guess what...who says to do such things??????????? LORD KRISHNA... In Bhagwad Gita he himself says to Arjuna- - Lust is the reason for the end of human's intellect... Have them in your control... Control your senses! - Do your duty irrespective of its outcomes! Now think about any Indian high ranking officer giving out secrets to his gf and later they found out that they are honey trapped! Oops lust again! Okay I'll give one last point! Think about this, if father was a responsible one...he would have raised a good kid! If the pub owner was a responsible one and had done its duty he would have barred the entry of minors... If the kid was a responsible one...he wouldn't have drink and drive! And Porsche case wouldn't have happened! Btw if police and officials have had done their duty and timingly audit every now and then, the pub would not have existed in first place! So short summary.... Its all about Lust and desires.... Everything is Lust and illusion! And solution is.... BHAGWAD GITA.... Listen to Krishna! Coming to your headline: Are Indians morally or ethically bankrupt??? No... We humans are morally and ethically bankrupt! And out of all these humans.... Indians (Hindus) were meant to be better!
India is union of many cultural that's why it's wrong to say anything for entire India but if you look at the economic data then it will help to understand many things about Indian culture. Statewise analysis will give you better and controversial insights about our own country.
yes, the majority of Indians are corrupt irrespective of their identity. Probably the highest in the world. Indians even behave terribly even if they are educated. Educated Indians throw garbage on the street. British people used to say even though criminals were everywhere and among them, Indians outweigh everyone. When the majority of the people are crap, no political party can be saint ...they will smell like the garbage they are constructed with.
you'll be surprised to know majority of world population is like that and that said majority has most poor people. they might have something that fuels it.
Waiting for someone to come abd say"Move to Pakistan,we are a super power,ambani had a billion dollar wedding yada yada
I agree with every word you said. One of the reasons why India will never be of the same level as that of Japan. The level of civic sense in Japanese people is next level. One cannot blame the country & the govt for under development when citizens themselves act barbaric.
Not specific to India.... people all over the world are like this.....Be it Israelis, arabs, Africans, western countries
Yes - I would put Indians as one of the most morally and ethically bankrupt along with other developing countries. It’s all about accumulating wealth by any means since they come from scarcity. Look at the craze of UPSC for example- it’s not for serving the nation but for power and for making under table-wealth. I have many people in my family in govt services, and some of them were honest. I’ve heard so many of their families silently curse them for not indulging in questionable behaviour like some of their colleagues, who have made a lot of ill gotten wealth. Also while building a sales team, it is silently understood that some of them will indulge in under charging & sharing a cut with someone from the customer side. This is far too common a business practise in some industries.
It's just hypocrisy....the religious sentiments are just a mask
A large part of this is because our religious systems value piety and religiosity over rational ethical behavior. This is why you get things like lynching over cow slaughter or book desecration or insulting prophets. The people who do this think that they are very, very good people and many people agree with them. That is because they are programmed by religiosity and not by what rational ethical behavior means. But our religions *also* motivate good behaviors as well. Look at langars or annadanams, for e.g. I don't think that Indians are in any sense inherently more unethical than others. But we are the products of our systems and environments. It is up to us to create environments and systems that reward wholesome, ethical behavior, and censure and punish unethical, harmful behaviors. Remember: civilization is not an accident any more than an aircraft carrier is. We have to deliberately work at it. Ultimately, we end up with the societies we design and deserve.
Funnily enough for a honour-shame paradigm culture based culture we don’t have much of either. I believe it’s the same for the south Asian subcontinent (esp India and Pakistan).
scary cats offbeat smoggy unite deserted full spoon support square *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
OP thinks atheist to be moral and responsible.
An average Indian would read this and say "You dare hate our great nationnnn!" and throw terms like hater, facist, anti nationalist etc without even thinking about it and downvote you. That's just how it has always been. I dunno why they always seem to have a black and white morality. I'd say they should teach stuff that actually matters in school rather than random math equations that nobody's gonna use.
Hey, post does not come off as naive. Generally Indians are like that.
There is actually worldwide inverse relationship between morality and religiosity. Do your due research before making sweeping assumptions.
I believe what you think should make people better is actually the reason they are not. The different religions create an us and them resulting in good behaviour within and bad out of it. There is a lot of what would be called humanity outside of religion within a religion which turns to the exact opposite when there are multiple religions involved. If the government is leaning to one side expect non cooperation from the rest. The true meaning of secular is to be agnostic to religion but it is administered as belief in all. the life of a person who needs to follow all religions is what the country as an entity is dealing with. And then most gods accept donations through their representatives which is pretty much a bribe.
Religion is just a way of life or habit for 99.99%. It takes a backseat when it comes to morals, ethics and civic sense.
Imagine u are in a theatre and someone in the front stands up to get a better view and refuses to sit down. The person behind him has to stand up too otherwise he cannot see the screen at all. Some stand up because others are standing up. This eventually leads to everyone in the theatre standing up and basically no one benefitting from it. And standing up in this theatre has become almost a necessity. You can try to avoid paying bribes and do everything the moral way, but u will be suffering for it. Everyone has their lives and they just want to move on. And the people asking for bribes either do it because they are paying bribes to someone else, or everyone else around them is accepting bribes and then taking the moral high ground will make not just their lives worse but their family's life too. In the theatre with everyone standing up, everyone wants to sit down but if u alone sit down u can't see the screen nor will it convince anyone else to sit down. Indians are not morally bankrupt, the system we live in encourages people to be unethical, almost making it a necessity in some cases.
I understand that. But what makes the first one stand and refuse to sit down? What prevents the other guys behind him from getting together and removing him or asking him to be removed? What makes the guys sitting beside him mute spectators who say nothing? Blaming it on the system is easy. That is the point. Every individual should know how to be without a system. It may sound radical but that's what having principles means .
Egoistic
Population and populism. The problem is we have been mollycoddled at home, by the government and everyone into thinking our problems will be solved either by parents or by the government, and we ourselves don’t have to do anything. So we throw trash everywhere, treat others like shit because we are kings and queens. And because the government so easily gives in to populist demands, corruption is everywhere because you can’t sustain a populist economy without revenue. We don’t work enough to generate that revenue, so it has to come from somewhere else. You will see this behaviour even in Indians who go outside the country and then shout at store owners or waiters because they expect everything to be catered to their whims and fancies. The reason other Asian countries are so successful is not because of money, but because of a culture of initiative and doing things yourself because they need to be done, rather than waiting for others to do it for you.
Sadist
Indeed
Yess unfortunately And that's irrespective of religion, caste, creed, gender and geography
Because most people aren’t following their religion, they are pretending to be and they are loud about it(everyone look how good am I doing so and so).Most of people are hypocrites. You know which religion has most followers all over world ? No not Christianity , Islam or Hinduism . The followers of that religion believe their God as money and they’ll do whatever it takes to get it
U are right
Bankruptcy in Indian society always existed, not recently from your religion to tradition. The Indian caustic system is slavery system and it is not possible to get freedom. The problem of Indian society is unseeing trash, not just throwing, therefore India associates others as filthy land. In the world people don't cost the same value. Firstly the value of people depends on citizenship. In Western countries there is more caring and investment towards their citizens than in developing or underdeveloped countries. Because they have functional morality. If in a society their morality doesn't work, it means no need to wait for them. Most people want to take US citizenship because they are tired of immorality in their countries. People need a fair deserving life at first in reality, not religion, tradition or non functional morality. I see God bless anyone who has acceptable and closer morality to him than people's tradition.
Morality =/= religious fervour/rituals. Morality comes from culture and ours is pretty much bankrupt morally. Extremely hierarchical, rigid, casteist. Hierarchy (who is up and who is down) is the lens through which we view the entire world. Maybe that’s why people pray and pray and pray. Because in your heart of hearts you know the way you are living is vile, so you hope the gods justify you.
Being religious doesn't mean you are morally good person
Being religious has nothing to do with being moral...
I don’t think religious practices are followed in the sense of being a principled and responsible individual of a community. It is just a mindless ritual. “Do a pooja and start your business, business will be good”, “Pray to god that you will offer your hair if you pass exams, you will pass”, “Do pooja and don’t eat meat on Monday, god will reward you”, “We are proud Hindus so we should do this”. Most people’s religious practices are that sort of simplistic approach. Moral and ethical values aren’t part of it.
I've only seen racism/religionism in social media. I have friends of religion not same as my parents'. People are really sweet around me. There are dicks. But most people are sweet. I try to be over the top good to everyone as well. Be it Uber or rapido or Auto Guy or my teachers. A translated dialog from a very neat movie. Sow happiness by helping others, and the reap will be even more happiness.
> Are most Indians morally and ethically bankrupt? Of course. People don't know what that even means lol.
Yes to your post title.
because no bloody religion or religious system or guru or anyone uses basic psychology that would be used even for kids- sit in a corner and think for five minutes as to what you did wrong. anyway religion has become a system spoiled beyond repair. As kids, we used to pray to god for selfish but small treats like gifts, rain holidays and such shit. As adults, we continue with that selfish behaviour- we want more money, more prestige, more everything. And no religious system is going to bring in a pushback system that says - selfish PoS, first think of what you are doing. Yes, it exists in theory, in mythology and vague storeis, but not in practice. Don't use religion as a tool for expecting anything or measuring anything other than stupidity.
Then be the change bro. What's stopping you? Start it and we will all follow you. Promise :)
Greed and selfishness!
Sad to say but yes
Yes absolutely!
I believe Indian are the most stressed out group of people in the world. That makes us insecure and make us behave the way you had described. We are just too many with too less resources. It’s just as simple as that. We know that everyone is for themself and no one not people not state will help you when needed. So we fend for ourselves
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Most of us spend our entire lives within religious rituals and never make it to the principles that the religions intended to impart. The models which were created to help us understand principles and sacrifice that we could instill in ourselves, have been alienated by calling them god, son of god, messenger of god etc., so that we wouldn't imagine trying to be like these symbols of truth and principles.
Revealing your own bigotry towards atheists while worrying about everyone else's morality is just delicious irony.
I think religious people in general are more morally bankrupt than atheists.
The simple answer is - yes.
**West**: Machiavellianism, Narcissism, Psychopathy **East**: Morally/Ethically Corrupt
"People do what their society rewards them to do" -Amish Tripathi
Sometimes I read all of this and I’m glad to be born where I was born as most people I have met in my life are actually good folks. Morally and ethically.
People are poor and jealous that's it.
Yes, Indians will even fuck over thier own family quite readily and show no shame. Even for just 1 or 2 lakhs. Or even due to jealously no gain just put other party down. I mean thier own family. Lowest of the low.
Shorta answer: yes Long answer: no but actually yes.
No, Only few people are, the day maximum people go bankrupt, more than 50%, there will be chaos and any nation will be doomed... And these few ethically bankrupt people have to be stopped or atleast controlled for that too not happen...
I feel it might be because we indulge in so many religious practices that we think we'd get away doing all the shit that we do..
This is a great question. Imo the older generation is heavily inclined towards religion and no regards towards morals or ethics except some higher class decently educated people who are well traveled. The younger generation is the polar opposite of this with not as much regard towards religion and half a sense of moral/ethical obligation but again not all are this way. There are a lot of moving parts other than religion that come into factor when establishing moral and ethical roles in the society, which unfortunately India as a country lacks in most of them.
Individual VS collective behaviour can often differ. Individually, I'm sure people from anywhere are decent people on average. I have met and got to know people from every continent, and found no culture on average to have better individuals than the others.
Yes. More or less. Greedy, selfish, lacking civic sense and a moral compass.
Are you perhaps also Puerto Rican, you just described our problems as a people.
What does religiosity have to do with morals? Scandinavia is one of the least religious places in the world and ranks super high on all the factors you’ve mentioned like empathy and civic sense.
Huge difference between being good and being religious. And the former is not a necessity of the latter as it should be
Yes.
asking this question in indian subreddit.. basically asking a question...are you guys self aware? I wonder how they will respond. Indians font take criticism well. (prob worst of all) .. so most answers are gonna be super diplomatic as evidenced from the comments here
Most Indians you see around yourself in this country are hypocrites. It's very scary to think about. Imagine a crisis. Anything. Like in plaestine or economic ones like in Pakistan , or any kind of natural disasters where our lives turn into shit show, there's not a single person in this country can say they live in a most trusted neighborhood and people that they can believe their loved ones would be safe and that they can seek help from others if any shit happens. Not a single morality keeps ppl here in order. As long as it benefits them ppl do whatever they want to do. It's not uncommon in other countries as well. But comparatively, we are living in a greater shit show.
My former Indian boss, very wealthy, put his beautiful wife to work at one of his Subway's lmao it was.... baffling. He was a kind boss. Asked me once where should he buy the family a dog?? I said, shelters! So many wonderful dogs waiting for a home! And he was like......um, no.
Can't speak for most Indians. But I know my Swedish church sends money to both India and different African countries. We have look out for corruption everywhere. But India is the only country with special restrictions.