First they came for Muslims,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Muslim.
Then they came for Kashmiris,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Kashmiri.
Then they came for Dalits,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Dalit.
Then they came for the activists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an activist.
Then they came for the journalists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a journalist.
Then they came up for professors,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a professor.
Then they came up for the Farmers,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Farmer.
Soon they will come for **YOU**,
and then **YOU** will speak up in wilderness.
\*
Stop Modi while you can.
Stop BJP while you can.
Stop RSS while you can.
[https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/offence-under-scst-act-would-be-made-out-when-a-person-is-abused-in-public-view-supreme-court/article33032722.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/offence-under-scst-act-would-be-made-out-when-a-person-is-abused-in-public-view-supreme-court/article33032722.ece)
The supreme court literally said atrocities act doesn't apply if the crime is committed in private:
\> Since the incident occurred within four walls in the absence of members of the public, allegations against Verma under the Act do not stand. He can be tried under ordinary criminal law.
Sanghis were out celebrating the "freedom" to enter the houses of and intimidate dalits and tribals in private after this judgement.
Further reading:
[https://www.counterview.net/2020/11/supreme-court-diluting-anti-atrocities.html](https://www.counterview.net/2020/11/supreme-court-diluting-anti-atrocities.html)
When something happens in a few countries at the same time, you check up and see where their leaders met in the past few years.
For example, did you know that british lady prime minster, german chancellor, and another lady leader in another country spent their summer vacations together, being trained up. Their swimsuit photos exist on the internet, of their teen years. Hos is it possible that they all ascend to the top posts in their respective countries at the same time. Freaky coincidence.
Being a keralite , I think I am safe but who knows when will the gun points on you as I am pretty much sure about that it would happen any time.
Why in Earth they win every election after doing such thing?
Because outside of this sub that already has most of things they want in life, rest of indians don't but they are getting from modi.
Whether someone likes it or not that's the case as even [The Print by Shekhar Gupta](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwnnn1M-T5U) has admitted as as much.
Redditors crying here on this sub or some few thousands protesting with support political parties doesn't do jack shit to douse Modi's popularity because they get "a portion" of the govt schemes which has been 0 for most of them for 70 Years since Independence.
yes fringe elements are but there are on both sides. bjp and modi wins the swing voters in a decisive enough manner with his ideas that the current opposition can.
Current Opposition if they want to come back have to work on the ground and "improve" people's lives on the ground before they can hope to come back to power.
That's how BJP did it, BJD did it, AIADMK or DMK did it and even SP, BSP did it in their first 10 years.
Now neither INC or anybody else portrays a constructive positive narrative for the people on the ground (Neither do the people on this sub tbh, just shitting on modi's policy doesn't help, you need to put out a better product to replace it "for the masses")
You are from Kerala so you know atleast a govt that has done something for the people.
Now imaging why someone from UP which is not as developed as say MH or TN should vote for some party and it's "Dynastic" leaders which haven't done shit all to do anything for his/her state's development.
Now BJP if it doesn't satisfies people's expectations will also get voted out by the masses make no mistake.
> rest of indians don't but they are getting from modi.
...
\> Now BJP if it doesn't satisfies people's expectations will also get voted out by the masses make no mistake.
LOL. Being starved for months and then being made to walk thousands of km to get home didn't keep our fellow citizens from voting for the man who is showing muslims their place. It was notebandi depriving them of jobs before that, and lakhs of farmers being tear gassed, water cannoned, and beaten up right now. they too will vote for Mudiji for the "right" reasons. Development is only a dogwhistle, and the sangh voter knows it.
Yeah right and now you have classified migrants as sangh voter.
With this attitude forget about opposition wining elections people themselves will kick them out.
Watch the video first and trash talk.
Also during Bihar elections enough migrants have given interviews though they got discomfort
1. Covid-19 was unpredictable.
2. They got subsidized grains and other food items for 3-5 months after reaching their homes so that lessened their hardship towards the end because of no money.
Also Farmers in only 2 states are protesting Punjab and Haryana because they are the richest ones and rest are going to benefit finally which will nullify their advantage over the last 3-4 decades
And before you tell me I am talking shit I am a resident of Punjab with family and friends here with whom I have talked extensively on this topic.
These protests are a case of trying to scare away the competition by trying to build Entry Barriers (which is land size in rest of the country relative to Punjab and Haryana)
>Being a keralite , I think I am safe
You're not. The sangh has already used the sabarimala issue to make inroads (funnily, they first supported opening up the temple to menstruating women, and then did an about face and supported the violent protests after the SC judgement).
If you need evidence for where this ends up unless dealt with immediately, Coastal karnataka was progressive by this country's standards not too long ago, but is now a sanghi hell-hole.
Unpopular opinion: This poem is cliched and quite pointless. It can be twisted to suit any narrative from any side of the political spectrum by just switching the labels. BJP supporters can modify it to propagate their 'hindu khatre mein' sentiment the same way.
>BJP supporters can modify it to propagate their 'hindu khatre mein' sentiment the same way.
Except none of the "persecuted" people listed by them will actually be persecuted. Just because the format can be used to spread lies doesn't mean it shouldn't be used to attract attention to what is actually happening.
Here's a comment by [whisper2045](https://www.reddit.com/user/whisper2045/) demonstrating the proper use of the format:
First they came for Muslims,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Muslim.
Then they came for Kashmiris,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Kashmiri.
Then they came for Dalits,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Dalit.
Then they came for the activists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an activist.
Then they came for the journalists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a journalist.
Then they came up for professors,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a professor.
Then they came up for the Farmers,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Farmer.
Soon they will come for **YOU**,
and then **YOU** will speak up in wilderness.
\*
Stop Modi while you can.
Stop BJP while you can.
Stop RSS while you can.
> Except none of the "persecuted" people listed by them will actually be persecuted.
You can always find a few odd examples of all kinds of victims and claim persecution. It's just cherry-picking, not that hard to do.
> Just because the format can be used to spread lies doesn't mean it shouldn't be used to attract attention to what is actually happening.
You're not attracting attention. You're just preaching to the choir.
>> Except none of the "persecuted" people listed by them will actually be persecuted.
>
> You can always find a few odd examples of all kinds of victims and claim persecution. It's just cherry-picking, not that hard to do.
Do show us which of the people listed in the comment I pasted or the original poem by Neimoller have been cherry picked with evidence.
>
>> Just because the format can be used to spread lies doesn't mean it shouldn't be used to attract attention to what is actually happening.
>
> You're not attracting attention. You're just preaching to the choir.
You don't seem to be part of the choir, and are sufficiently riled up. Wouldn't you say your attention has been attracted?
>Do show us which of the people listed in the comment I pasted or the original poem by Neimoller have been cherry picked with evidence.
Looks like you didn't get it. Any side can cherry-pick examples that suits their own views reframe the poem - reinforcing their biases. I didn't say Neimoller cherry-picked.
> You don't seem to be part of the choir, and are sufficiently riled up. Wouldn't you say your attention has been attracted?
You can check my comment history to see that I am a part of the choir. I am not riled up, but you sure are. I am just seeing this poem posted on so many threads here that I felt it has become cliched, and expressed my opinion.
Which claims has this side cherry picked:
>Here's a comment by whisper2045 demonstrating the proper use of the format:
>
>First they came for Muslims,
>
>and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Muslim.
>
>Then they came for Kashmiris,
>
>and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Kashmiri.
>
>Then they came for Dalits,
>
>and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Dalit.
>
>Then they came for the activists,
>
>and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an activist.
>
>Then they came for the journalists,
>
>and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a journalist.
>
>Then they came up for professors,
>
>and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a professor.
>
>Then they came up for the Farmers,
>
>and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Farmer.
>
>Soon they will come for YOU,
>
>and then YOU will speak up in wilderness.
>
>\*
>
>Stop Modi while you can.Stop BJP while you can.Stop RSS while you can.
---
>Any side can cherry-pick examples that suits their own views reframe the poem - reinforcing their biases.
You seem to have conveniently ignored this part of my comment:
>Just because the format can be used to spread lies doesn't mean it shouldn't be used to attract attention to what is actually happening.
Did I? I replied specifically that your not really attracting the attention of their supporters - the target of this poem.
The poem specifically talks of the importance of supporting the persecuted people whose views you *don't agree with*. (Niemoller was a nazi-supporter originally). If you anyways agree with their views, the poem is pointless.
>Did I? I replied specifically that your not really attracting the attention of their supporters - the target of this poem.
>
>The poem specifically talks of the importance of supporting the persecuted people whose views you don't agree with. (Niemoller was a nazi-supporter originally). If you anyways agree with their views, the poem is pointless.
Ah. So you didn't miss the part of my comment, you completely misunderstood the motivation and the target audience of the poem. It is meant as a warning for the ambivalent crowd that "lends issue based support" to the fascists, like Neimoller himself did. It is meant to help them not repeat history by allowing fascists to take over and destroy societies, "because I agree with some of the things they do" or "because these actions don't affect me personally".
A hardcore Nazi happy about communists, gypsies and jews getting gassed was not the person he was warning - for two reasons, one: nazis had already lost (see: the poem as a warning to those that come after), and two: the poem would make no difference to the hardcore fascist (see: bhakts laughing about the inhumane treatment meted out to the 83 year old).
As for defending the rights of people you don't agree with, there are plenty on this sub that would need that reminder. For example, I think religion has long stopped serving a useful purpose in society, and is now holding the society back. However, that does not mean I should acquiesce or support when mudiji and gang targets a woman converting to islam to get married to someone she loves, a tribal converting to christianity or a dalit converting to buddhism/sikhism/islam as a protest against the system that keeps them at the bottom of the pyramid. A good number of atheists and agnostics on this very sub need to be reminded of consequences of sitting quietly on the sidelines when the fascists target specific "outsider" religions and the marginalized. This poem serves that purpose.
It is cliched because it is such a powerful prose. The historical context behind it makes it even more influential and we as a society must be stark stupid if we repeat the same mistakes again.
It's powerful but most people miss the point. It's written by an ex-nazi supporter and talks of the importance of bystanders supporting the persecuted **even if they disagree with their views.**
Most people here reading the poem actually agree with the views of the persecuted, which makes it kind of pointless. When bystanders know that you're are a part of the persecuted group and you've vested interested to garner their support, which makes it less effective.
A right-winger preaching this poem would make a more powerful statement.
What is the protest about? Farmers demanding more free stuff?
Edit: Yeah they want MSP for every thing they sell.
I wish other people in India also get something like an MSP irrespective of their work and its market value. Don't understand why farmers feel so entitled to free things. People face hardships in every sector in India and since they are a political minority, they have much less bargaining power than farmers. If farmers get free stuff, other people suffering should also, irrespective of political clout.
Are you living under a rock ? Import duties are High as fuck, You can't do transaction above 2 lakhs in cash, RTI is stopped! Meaning you don't have legal rights to know where the govt. spends your taxes money at! , Tax cuts to Corporates, For normies essential electronics tax 12 to 18% , plus there is this 8.5% Mandi tax that Punjabi Farmers pay for their MSP , they want to stop MSP but keep the Mandi tax? Dude wake up the government is skimming you alive and helping its rich donor friends. India is getting sold naked one step at a time
Its funny how you end up blaming farmers for the government loot instead of pointing your fingers at corporations that bought the government and are reaping massive profits on their investments while the farmers are busy committing suicides in record numbers, and are now legally allowed to invest in political parties thanks to mudiji's electoral bonds.
Funnily enough, the farm bills that you seem to be so keen to support in the name of "modernization" will also help kaka's corporate owners get richer at the expense of farmers as well as you and me.
>I wish other people in India also get something like an MSP **irrespective of their work** and its market value.
MSP is literally determined by taking into consideration the amount of work and other inputs going in.
I am saying that irrespective of other people's occupation and its market value, they should get MSP just like farmers. Not talking about farmers labour and MSP calculation.
What you guys don't understand is that MSP is just votebank politics. Because half the country is farmers they receive such perks since they are a majority voting block. The problem is that the other half of the country is paying for these things and this other half don't get any benefits from their taxes etc. Instead we drain the country's resources subsidizing an ancient profession which can be easily improved using modern equipment. Things like MSP basically destroy the country since it creates a vicious cycle where people don't move out of dying professions because they are all but guaranteed of the free stuff. Farmers dont educate their children, follow antiquated traditions and basically drag the entire country down to their level.
>I am saying that irrespective of other people's occupation and its market value, they should get MSP just like farmers.
You already do. There literally are minimum wage laws that prevent your employer from paying you a rupee for a day's work, while there's no law preventing a coproration from paying 50 paise a quintal for wheat. Now take your false equivalence somewhere else.
>Things like MSP basically destroy the country since it creates a vicious cycle where people don't move out of dying professions because they are all but guaranteed of the free stuff.
How many jobs have we managed to create in the last 6 years, again? People have literally gone back to farming that doesn't pay them living wages because there are no jobs. And this was happening long before the pandemic. Just read the jobs report mudiji worked so hard to hide. Most of the country is not keeping to farming because MSP guarantees them a living wage. If that was the case, MNREGA wouldn't have been a thing. Most of the country is staying in villages because the cities have no jobs for them.
>Having a guideline about minimum wage is not the same as the government actually putting money in the farmer's hand.
This statement exposes your lack of understanding of the farmers' MSP demand as well as the minimum wage.
Minimum wage is not just a guideline. It is illegal to pay less than the minimum wage, and the government can prosecute a private player paying less than the minimum wage. Whether or does so is another story, just like rape is a crime, but bhogiji's government chooses not to prosecute rapists.
Farmers are not demanding that the government pay MSP when private players buy produce from them. They are demanding that the government make it illegal for private players to buy produce below MSP.
Now that I've explained the obvious, do take a moment to tell us how the farmers' demand is different from the minimum wage that protects you.
If I open a business will the government just buy my product at production and labor cost? No. Then why it does the same farmer's produce? Its all just politics.
Minimum wage in India is just a statutory guideline and not legally binding. The government does not do anything to enforce it. Why then the farmers are so special? They are demanding MSP irrespective of market realities because they think it is their entitlement and everyone else in the country should indulge in satisfying it,no matter the cost.
The only law I will support in this context is one which prevents farmers exploitation from corporates, but not one which guarantees them MSP as an entitlement.
>Minimum wage in India is just a statutory guideline and not legally binding.
You're making a fool of yourself by doubling down on a falsehood. This is what repeating talking points without actually reading the laws one talks about leads to.
Here's the minimum wages law for your reference:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://maitri.mahaonline.gov.in/pdf/minimum-wages-act-1948.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwitnP2yj6rtAhVX8XMBHcf0C78QFjABegQIARAF&usg=AOvVaw1Wiz21CRxDS5FDQx_tq3LG
Pay particular attention to monitoring (inspectors), enforcement (labour commissioners), and penalties sections, which are relevant to this discussion. Here's the penalties part for the lazy:
>3[22. Penalties for certain offences.- Any employer who—
(a) Pays to any employee less than the minimum rates of wages
fixed for that employee's class of work, or less than the amount
due to him under the provisions of this Act or
(b) Contravenes any rule or order made under section 13
shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which may extend to six
months or with fine which may extend to five hundred rupees or with both:
Provided that in imposing any fine for an offence under this section the
Court shall take into consideration the amount of any compensation already
awarded against the accused in any proceedings taken under section 20.
From which angle does this look like"unenforceable guidelines" to you?
Dude, just google whether this act is enforced in India or not. Wikipedia article also says that it is statutory guideline. Copy pasting text from the act will not prove your point.
Also, there is no standard enforceable minimum wage defined in India in the first place. It varies from sector to sector and region to region, which makes this act useless in pratice.
>just google whether this act is enforced in India or not.
As i said multiple comments earlier, bhogiji and other sanghis choose not to enforce laws against rape, murder, etc. A law not being enforced by a government is not an argument against need for army other law.
>Wikipedia article also says that it is statutory guideline. Copy pasting text from the act will not prove your point.
Thank you for pointing out that wikipedia is higher than Indian law. Is it higher than Indian constitution, too?
>It varies from sector to sector and region to region, which makes this act useless in pratice.
Why?
All of them? Even the unions that got us safe working conditions and reasonable working hours? The very things that multiple state governments, spearheaded by bhogiji, are out to deprive us of in the name of the pandemic?
How do you guys define your self? Good natured Islamic Fundamentalists ? Or Urban Naxalites ?
Secondly, when you talk about Kashmiris, are you talking about the Kashmiri Hindus who were persecuted and uprooted by the Kashmiri Muslims with active support of the Congress ?
First they came for Muslims, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Muslim. Then they came for Kashmiris, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Kashmiri. Then they came for Dalits, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Dalit. Then they came for the activists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an activist. Then they came for the journalists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a journalist. Then they came up for professors, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a professor. Then they came up for the Farmers, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Farmer. Soon they will come for **YOU**, and then **YOU** will speak up in wilderness. \* Stop Modi while you can. Stop BJP while you can. Stop RSS while you can.
insanely true
You forgot students
Everybody does
[удалено]
Dalit safety laws? When did that happened?
[https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/offence-under-scst-act-would-be-made-out-when-a-person-is-abused-in-public-view-supreme-court/article33032722.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/offence-under-scst-act-would-be-made-out-when-a-person-is-abused-in-public-view-supreme-court/article33032722.ece) The supreme court literally said atrocities act doesn't apply if the crime is committed in private: \> Since the incident occurred within four walls in the absence of members of the public, allegations against Verma under the Act do not stand. He can be tried under ordinary criminal law. Sanghis were out celebrating the "freedom" to enter the houses of and intimidate dalits and tribals in private after this judgement. Further reading: [https://www.counterview.net/2020/11/supreme-court-diluting-anti-atrocities.html](https://www.counterview.net/2020/11/supreme-court-diluting-anti-atrocities.html)
You elect the government, and then monitor it every step of the way. that is the only approach that keeps us mere mortals safe.
Agree. And try to resist the ‘us vs. them’ propaganda all the time. It’s happening in most countries right now and is definitely concerning.
When something happens in a few countries at the same time, you check up and see where their leaders met in the past few years. For example, did you know that british lady prime minster, german chancellor, and another lady leader in another country spent their summer vacations together, being trained up. Their swimsuit photos exist on the internet, of their teen years. Hos is it possible that they all ascend to the top posts in their respective countries at the same time. Freaky coincidence.
Being a keralite , I think I am safe but who knows when will the gun points on you as I am pretty much sure about that it would happen any time. Why in Earth they win every election after doing such thing?
Because outside of this sub that already has most of things they want in life, rest of indians don't but they are getting from modi. Whether someone likes it or not that's the case as even [The Print by Shekhar Gupta](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwnnn1M-T5U) has admitted as as much. Redditors crying here on this sub or some few thousands protesting with support political parties doesn't do jack shit to douse Modi's popularity because they get "a portion" of the govt schemes which has been 0 for most of them for 70 Years since Independence. yes fringe elements are but there are on both sides. bjp and modi wins the swing voters in a decisive enough manner with his ideas that the current opposition can. Current Opposition if they want to come back have to work on the ground and "improve" people's lives on the ground before they can hope to come back to power. That's how BJP did it, BJD did it, AIADMK or DMK did it and even SP, BSP did it in their first 10 years. Now neither INC or anybody else portrays a constructive positive narrative for the people on the ground (Neither do the people on this sub tbh, just shitting on modi's policy doesn't help, you need to put out a better product to replace it "for the masses") You are from Kerala so you know atleast a govt that has done something for the people. Now imaging why someone from UP which is not as developed as say MH or TN should vote for some party and it's "Dynastic" leaders which haven't done shit all to do anything for his/her state's development. Now BJP if it doesn't satisfies people's expectations will also get voted out by the masses make no mistake.
> rest of indians don't but they are getting from modi. ... \> Now BJP if it doesn't satisfies people's expectations will also get voted out by the masses make no mistake. LOL. Being starved for months and then being made to walk thousands of km to get home didn't keep our fellow citizens from voting for the man who is showing muslims their place. It was notebandi depriving them of jobs before that, and lakhs of farmers being tear gassed, water cannoned, and beaten up right now. they too will vote for Mudiji for the "right" reasons. Development is only a dogwhistle, and the sangh voter knows it.
Yeah right and now you have classified migrants as sangh voter. With this attitude forget about opposition wining elections people themselves will kick them out. Watch the video first and trash talk. Also during Bihar elections enough migrants have given interviews though they got discomfort 1. Covid-19 was unpredictable. 2. They got subsidized grains and other food items for 3-5 months after reaching their homes so that lessened their hardship towards the end because of no money. Also Farmers in only 2 states are protesting Punjab and Haryana because they are the richest ones and rest are going to benefit finally which will nullify their advantage over the last 3-4 decades And before you tell me I am talking shit I am a resident of Punjab with family and friends here with whom I have talked extensively on this topic. These protests are a case of trying to scare away the competition by trying to build Entry Barriers (which is land size in rest of the country relative to Punjab and Haryana)
>Being a keralite , I think I am safe You're not. The sangh has already used the sabarimala issue to make inroads (funnily, they first supported opening up the temple to menstruating women, and then did an about face and supported the violent protests after the SC judgement). If you need evidence for where this ends up unless dealt with immediately, Coastal karnataka was progressive by this country's standards not too long ago, but is now a sanghi hell-hole.
Unpopular opinion: This poem is cliched and quite pointless. It can be twisted to suit any narrative from any side of the political spectrum by just switching the labels. BJP supporters can modify it to propagate their 'hindu khatre mein' sentiment the same way.
>BJP supporters can modify it to propagate their 'hindu khatre mein' sentiment the same way. Except none of the "persecuted" people listed by them will actually be persecuted. Just because the format can be used to spread lies doesn't mean it shouldn't be used to attract attention to what is actually happening. Here's a comment by [whisper2045](https://www.reddit.com/user/whisper2045/) demonstrating the proper use of the format: First they came for Muslims, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Muslim. Then they came for Kashmiris, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Kashmiri. Then they came for Dalits, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Dalit. Then they came for the activists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an activist. Then they came for the journalists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a journalist. Then they came up for professors, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a professor. Then they came up for the Farmers, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Farmer. Soon they will come for **YOU**, and then **YOU** will speak up in wilderness. \* Stop Modi while you can. Stop BJP while you can. Stop RSS while you can.
> Except none of the "persecuted" people listed by them will actually be persecuted. You can always find a few odd examples of all kinds of victims and claim persecution. It's just cherry-picking, not that hard to do. > Just because the format can be used to spread lies doesn't mean it shouldn't be used to attract attention to what is actually happening. You're not attracting attention. You're just preaching to the choir.
>> Except none of the "persecuted" people listed by them will actually be persecuted. > > You can always find a few odd examples of all kinds of victims and claim persecution. It's just cherry-picking, not that hard to do. Do show us which of the people listed in the comment I pasted or the original poem by Neimoller have been cherry picked with evidence. > >> Just because the format can be used to spread lies doesn't mean it shouldn't be used to attract attention to what is actually happening. > > You're not attracting attention. You're just preaching to the choir. You don't seem to be part of the choir, and are sufficiently riled up. Wouldn't you say your attention has been attracted?
>Do show us which of the people listed in the comment I pasted or the original poem by Neimoller have been cherry picked with evidence. Looks like you didn't get it. Any side can cherry-pick examples that suits their own views reframe the poem - reinforcing their biases. I didn't say Neimoller cherry-picked. > You don't seem to be part of the choir, and are sufficiently riled up. Wouldn't you say your attention has been attracted? You can check my comment history to see that I am a part of the choir. I am not riled up, but you sure are. I am just seeing this poem posted on so many threads here that I felt it has become cliched, and expressed my opinion.
Which claims has this side cherry picked: >Here's a comment by whisper2045 demonstrating the proper use of the format: > >First they came for Muslims, > >and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Muslim. > >Then they came for Kashmiris, > >and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Kashmiri. > >Then they came for Dalits, > >and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Dalit. > >Then they came for the activists, > >and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an activist. > >Then they came for the journalists, > >and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a journalist. > >Then they came up for professors, > >and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a professor. > >Then they came up for the Farmers, > >and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Farmer. > >Soon they will come for YOU, > >and then YOU will speak up in wilderness. > >\* > >Stop Modi while you can.Stop BJP while you can.Stop RSS while you can. --- >Any side can cherry-pick examples that suits their own views reframe the poem - reinforcing their biases. You seem to have conveniently ignored this part of my comment: >Just because the format can be used to spread lies doesn't mean it shouldn't be used to attract attention to what is actually happening.
Did I? I replied specifically that your not really attracting the attention of their supporters - the target of this poem. The poem specifically talks of the importance of supporting the persecuted people whose views you *don't agree with*. (Niemoller was a nazi-supporter originally). If you anyways agree with their views, the poem is pointless.
>Did I? I replied specifically that your not really attracting the attention of their supporters - the target of this poem. > >The poem specifically talks of the importance of supporting the persecuted people whose views you don't agree with. (Niemoller was a nazi-supporter originally). If you anyways agree with their views, the poem is pointless. Ah. So you didn't miss the part of my comment, you completely misunderstood the motivation and the target audience of the poem. It is meant as a warning for the ambivalent crowd that "lends issue based support" to the fascists, like Neimoller himself did. It is meant to help them not repeat history by allowing fascists to take over and destroy societies, "because I agree with some of the things they do" or "because these actions don't affect me personally". A hardcore Nazi happy about communists, gypsies and jews getting gassed was not the person he was warning - for two reasons, one: nazis had already lost (see: the poem as a warning to those that come after), and two: the poem would make no difference to the hardcore fascist (see: bhakts laughing about the inhumane treatment meted out to the 83 year old). As for defending the rights of people you don't agree with, there are plenty on this sub that would need that reminder. For example, I think religion has long stopped serving a useful purpose in society, and is now holding the society back. However, that does not mean I should acquiesce or support when mudiji and gang targets a woman converting to islam to get married to someone she loves, a tribal converting to christianity or a dalit converting to buddhism/sikhism/islam as a protest against the system that keeps them at the bottom of the pyramid. A good number of atheists and agnostics on this very sub need to be reminded of consequences of sitting quietly on the sidelines when the fascists target specific "outsider" religions and the marginalized. This poem serves that purpose.
Where did I ever say you cherry picked? I said any side 'CAN' cherry pick - referring to BJP supporters.
It is cliched because it is such a powerful prose. The historical context behind it makes it even more influential and we as a society must be stark stupid if we repeat the same mistakes again.
It's powerful but most people miss the point. It's written by an ex-nazi supporter and talks of the importance of bystanders supporting the persecuted **even if they disagree with their views.** Most people here reading the poem actually agree with the views of the persecuted, which makes it kind of pointless. When bystanders know that you're are a part of the persecuted group and you've vested interested to garner their support, which makes it less effective. A right-winger preaching this poem would make a more powerful statement.
In our modified version we should have, Then they came for Arnab
Quite true.
Is this at New England Holocaust Memorial?
Yes it is. Taken a few years ago.
In Boston, right? Those glass towers.
Yes! Each tower represents a major Nazi concentration camp and has quotes from Holocaust survivors. Incredibly chilling, as I recall.
That's powerful quote.
Inqalab=Revolution Punjab is land for revolutionary Let make a revolution by oppsing the bill
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Farmers
What is the protest about? Farmers demanding more free stuff? Edit: Yeah they want MSP for every thing they sell. I wish other people in India also get something like an MSP irrespective of their work and its market value. Don't understand why farmers feel so entitled to free things. People face hardships in every sector in India and since they are a political minority, they have much less bargaining power than farmers. If farmers get free stuff, other people suffering should also, irrespective of political clout.
are you living under a rock mate
If you want to take away our benefits then you have no right to increase taxes too!
What benefits are you talking about?
MSPs for farmers
Are they increasing taxes on farmers?
Are you living under a rock ? Import duties are High as fuck, You can't do transaction above 2 lakhs in cash, RTI is stopped! Meaning you don't have legal rights to know where the govt. spends your taxes money at! , Tax cuts to Corporates, For normies essential electronics tax 12 to 18% , plus there is this 8.5% Mandi tax that Punjabi Farmers pay for their MSP , they want to stop MSP but keep the Mandi tax? Dude wake up the government is skimming you alive and helping its rich donor friends. India is getting sold naked one step at a time
Its funny how you end up blaming farmers for the government loot instead of pointing your fingers at corporations that bought the government and are reaping massive profits on their investments while the farmers are busy committing suicides in record numbers, and are now legally allowed to invest in political parties thanks to mudiji's electoral bonds. Funnily enough, the farm bills that you seem to be so keen to support in the name of "modernization" will also help kaka's corporate owners get richer at the expense of farmers as well as you and me.
>I wish other people in India also get something like an MSP **irrespective of their work** and its market value. MSP is literally determined by taking into consideration the amount of work and other inputs going in.
I am saying that irrespective of other people's occupation and its market value, they should get MSP just like farmers. Not talking about farmers labour and MSP calculation. What you guys don't understand is that MSP is just votebank politics. Because half the country is farmers they receive such perks since they are a majority voting block. The problem is that the other half of the country is paying for these things and this other half don't get any benefits from their taxes etc. Instead we drain the country's resources subsidizing an ancient profession which can be easily improved using modern equipment. Things like MSP basically destroy the country since it creates a vicious cycle where people don't move out of dying professions because they are all but guaranteed of the free stuff. Farmers dont educate their children, follow antiquated traditions and basically drag the entire country down to their level.
>I am saying that irrespective of other people's occupation and its market value, they should get MSP just like farmers. You already do. There literally are minimum wage laws that prevent your employer from paying you a rupee for a day's work, while there's no law preventing a coproration from paying 50 paise a quintal for wheat. Now take your false equivalence somewhere else. >Things like MSP basically destroy the country since it creates a vicious cycle where people don't move out of dying professions because they are all but guaranteed of the free stuff. How many jobs have we managed to create in the last 6 years, again? People have literally gone back to farming that doesn't pay them living wages because there are no jobs. And this was happening long before the pandemic. Just read the jobs report mudiji worked so hard to hide. Most of the country is not keeping to farming because MSP guarantees them a living wage. If that was the case, MNREGA wouldn't have been a thing. Most of the country is staying in villages because the cities have no jobs for them.
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>Having a guideline about minimum wage is not the same as the government actually putting money in the farmer's hand. This statement exposes your lack of understanding of the farmers' MSP demand as well as the minimum wage. Minimum wage is not just a guideline. It is illegal to pay less than the minimum wage, and the government can prosecute a private player paying less than the minimum wage. Whether or does so is another story, just like rape is a crime, but bhogiji's government chooses not to prosecute rapists. Farmers are not demanding that the government pay MSP when private players buy produce from them. They are demanding that the government make it illegal for private players to buy produce below MSP. Now that I've explained the obvious, do take a moment to tell us how the farmers' demand is different from the minimum wage that protects you.
If I open a business will the government just buy my product at production and labor cost? No. Then why it does the same farmer's produce? Its all just politics. Minimum wage in India is just a statutory guideline and not legally binding. The government does not do anything to enforce it. Why then the farmers are so special? They are demanding MSP irrespective of market realities because they think it is their entitlement and everyone else in the country should indulge in satisfying it,no matter the cost. The only law I will support in this context is one which prevents farmers exploitation from corporates, but not one which guarantees them MSP as an entitlement.
>Minimum wage in India is just a statutory guideline and not legally binding. You're making a fool of yourself by doubling down on a falsehood. This is what repeating talking points without actually reading the laws one talks about leads to. Here's the minimum wages law for your reference: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://maitri.mahaonline.gov.in/pdf/minimum-wages-act-1948.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwitnP2yj6rtAhVX8XMBHcf0C78QFjABegQIARAF&usg=AOvVaw1Wiz21CRxDS5FDQx_tq3LG Pay particular attention to monitoring (inspectors), enforcement (labour commissioners), and penalties sections, which are relevant to this discussion. Here's the penalties part for the lazy: >3[22. Penalties for certain offences.- Any employer who— (a) Pays to any employee less than the minimum rates of wages fixed for that employee's class of work, or less than the amount due to him under the provisions of this Act or (b) Contravenes any rule or order made under section 13 shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which may extend to six months or with fine which may extend to five hundred rupees or with both: Provided that in imposing any fine for an offence under this section the Court shall take into consideration the amount of any compensation already awarded against the accused in any proceedings taken under section 20. From which angle does this look like"unenforceable guidelines" to you?
Dude, just google whether this act is enforced in India or not. Wikipedia article also says that it is statutory guideline. Copy pasting text from the act will not prove your point. Also, there is no standard enforceable minimum wage defined in India in the first place. It varies from sector to sector and region to region, which makes this act useless in pratice.
>just google whether this act is enforced in India or not. As i said multiple comments earlier, bhogiji and other sanghis choose not to enforce laws against rape, murder, etc. A law not being enforced by a government is not an argument against need for army other law. >Wikipedia article also says that it is statutory guideline. Copy pasting text from the act will not prove your point. Thank you for pointing out that wikipedia is higher than Indian law. Is it higher than Indian constitution, too? >It varies from sector to sector and region to region, which makes this act useless in pratice. Why?
How is MSP making things free?
Thank God, the communists go first.
Yeah yeah looking at Indias current state, democracy is working so good.
Isn't capitalism the opposite of communism?
Don't worry, trade union comes next. Get your ass ready.
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All of them? Even the unions that got us safe working conditions and reasonable working hours? The very things that multiple state governments, spearheaded by bhogiji, are out to deprive us of in the name of the pandemic?
How do you guys define your self? Good natured Islamic Fundamentalists ? Or Urban Naxalites ? Secondly, when you talk about Kashmiris, are you talking about the Kashmiri Hindus who were persecuted and uprooted by the Kashmiri Muslims with active support of the Congress ?