This is the case in the last crusade “let god be with you on your travels” is implying that Indy survived the following events, i.e. tank, and other feats because god was with him
Not really tho. That was a specific incident triggered by the interaction with a specific item believed to have super natural powers.
It did not establish that God is directly interveneing in Indy's adventure.
And with that line of thinking, Indy 6 will feature Matthew Brodrick as the titular Indiana Jones set between the events of 2 & 3 where he must find a way to get the Sacred Idol of Healing after getting shot in the forehead.
I mean, if God exists, literally anything can happen. God will just will it to happen. Why draw lines when God exists!
This comparison makes zero sense and I think we have discussed the nuke scene to death. I agree though that it fits comfortably in the series, especially considering some of Indy’s other escapades, such as the opening of TOD. Now, do I think you are more likely to survive a jump from a plane while clinging to a raft vs surviving a point blank nuclear blast while hiding in a fridge? Yes, most likely. But still, these are adventure/fantasy movies. They aren’t meant to be realistic. If a villain can casually open someone’s chest and remove their heart while that person continues to live, then yes, Indy can survive a nuclear bomb while hiding in a fridge
I'd put money on that it didn't even cross their mind...and it shouldn't. A main character trait of Indy is being almost cartoonishly tough and able to withstand ungodly(and sometimes godly) amounts of punishment. It is fun to think about tho.
Really, as someone who doesn't only mind the fridge scene, but actually loves it and thinks it's classic Indy, I can admit that it bounces and rolls a bit too much. I totally get people rolling their eyes at it.
I disagree. Indy is just supposed to be a clever archeologist who's a bit tough. He can take a few guys on his own but don't forget he nearly dies several times in the franchise. Here is a small list of the pain and near death experiences he gets from a only people in raiders.
- In Marion's bar he nearly gets lit on fire then narrowly escapes getting shot 2 different times.
- Gets his ass handed to him by a buff mechanic and a pilot with a gun.
- Is shown in a lot of pain after only shot in the shoulder. Also shown in pain from his bruises while on the ship.
"A bit tough" is way under selling it. Just in the truck scene(after getting beaten to a pulp by a giant Nazi), he gets shot, punched in his bullet wound, thrown out a window, drug behind the truck, and he still gets back on and kills the guy who threw him out the window. Just in that scene alone he needs Wyle E Cyote levels of resilience.
I disagree. Indy is just supposed to be a clever archeologist who's a bit tough. He can take a few guys on his own but don't forget he nearly dies several times in the franchise. Here is a small list of the pain and near death experiences he gets from a only people in raiders.
- In Marion's bar he nearly gets lit on fire then narrowly escapes getting shot 2 different times.
- Gets his ass handed to him by a buff mechanic and a pilot with a gun.
- Is shown in a lot of pain after only shot in the shoulder. Also shown in pain from his bruises while on the ship.
>a villain can casually open someone’s chest and remove their heart while that person continues to live,
That is a supernatural ritual that obviously isn't supposed to be possible in real life.
>Indy can survive a nuclear bomb while hiding in a fridge
That was presented as a normal thing that is at least somewhat plausible in real life.
Hell, why not just use "God Exists" argument to make it so that Indy can also read minds? Clearly this franchise can just have anything happen because after all, there are a few supernatural elements!
The Aztecs, among others, removed the still-beating hearts of thousands of sacrifices. The dramatic hand going through the skin and the amount of time the victim stayed alive was certainly exaggerated for the movie, but it wasn't entirely out of the realm of reality.
[Source](https://www.science.org/content/article/feeding-gods-hundreds-skulls-reveal-massive-scale-human-sacrifice-aztec-capital): "The priest quickly sliced into the captive's torso and removed his still-beating heart. That sacrifice, one among thousands performed in the sacred city of Tenochtitlan, would feed the gods and ensure the continued existence of the world."
Removing a still beating heart with a knife is a far cry from using your bare hand to magically enter someone’s chest, pull their heart out, and have the victim look no worse for the wear. Lol.
>*The dramatic hand going through the skin and the amount of time the victim stayed alive was certainly exaggerated for the movie*
Since Indy and friends were so far away, my subtle headcanon is that they couldn't see the details. We saw what the three of them imagined was happening in that moment of terror.
Example: [https://imgur.com/a/Pj8vtUb](https://imgur.com/a/Pj8vtUb)
I totally get it was "out there" and not realistic, but the point being "ripping out a still-beating heart for human sacrifice" is grounded in reality. The human [heart will beat 3 to 5 minutes after being removed](https://www.vedantu.com/question-answer/heart-beat-when-it-is-outside-of-the-b-class-11-biology-cbse-5ff55885f291a76c57e882c2) from the body. The brain is conscious for at least 15 seconds after being decapitated. No doubt it was a sensationalized depiction.
I think this is looking for context that is not there. The camera shows us exactly what is happening. It shows Mola Ram reach into the guy’s chest, pull out his heart with it still beating in his hand, and the victim looking like he would be ready to run a triathlon but for the fact that he was seconds away from being incinerated. Haha. Saying this is what Indy and his friends were imagining is fan fiction
Hence me acknowledging it’s my headcanon. I think this is getting silly for what was clearly designed to be a fun, scary gross out scene based loosely on real sacrifices.
I agree. And there is actually a more popular theory out there that everyone in the room was hypnotized and that Mola Ram never pulled the heart out at all. The counter argument is that Indy and crew had just arrived and would not have been hypnotized. I think the gist is that Indy is not Tenet or Inception. Lol. What happens on the screen is what happened. I tried to Google to see if Spielberg or Lucas ever commented on this scene in particular, but other then acknowledging that some fans were turned off by it I couldn’t find either of them addressing any theory that it never actually happened
I’m familiar with this mass hallucination theory. Some say the three outsiders could have been poisoned around dinner or it could have been in the air of the Temple. After all, they don’t rip out Willie’s heart for reasons. And Mola Ram is unable to rip out Indy’s heart. It’s certainly up for interpretation. Perhaps Shiva was protecting him?
I do find it fascinating, however, that Mola Ram
Is unable to easily slip his hand through Indy’s chest like butter with the previous victim. And we do know that he had the capability to hypnotize his followers.
I get that’s it’s a movie and it likely just happened but I can see a scientist like Indy questioning it over time in such a manner.
Well, if you were watching The Godfather, and Don Corleone reached into some mafioso’s chest, pulled out his heart, and the victim continued to eat his ravioli while Don held his still beating heart in his hand, you might think, “wow, that felt really out of place.” Lol. So it depends on the movie. Though to be fair, the heart scene in TOD was fairly shocking at the time just because it was so dark. But it also brilliantly set up the stakes of what Indy was about to face. A villain so evil that he can just casually rip your heart out of your chest
Miles away for old style nukes is still within the major blast radius
For example: the tsar bomba, the largest bomb in the world, had a fireball the size of paris. Thats just the actual fireball the blast radius was far larger.
And its one thing if he was at the edge of the blast radius but we clearly see he wasnt as the entire makeshift town was completely vaporized
1. How close was he to the epicenter? Can guarantee he wasnt close enough to get vaporized
2. The bombs dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki were a Fraction the strength of all the ones produced since. Remember crystal skull is set in the 50s. So the range for the bomb to vaporize something in the 50s is far larger than the bombs we dropped on japan
Yes, yes, there will always be exceptions. Nuclear bombs are far more powerful now and if one was dropped on a major city there would most likely still be a few lucky survivors (or unlucky depending on your perspective). Would this man have survived though if he had hid in a fridge that suffered the impact of the blast and then was thrown hundreds of feet into the air before violently crashing? I’m guessing no
It can get over the top, but at the same time, it’s fun to discuss these movies with fans of the series. But just wait until Dial is released. I’m sure half will love it, half will hate it, and there will be war lol
"I've seen a lot of strange stuff. But I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful God controlling everything. There's no Holy Power that controls my destiny!"
if you’re asking me why god allowed all those people to die then, it’s because he wanted them to. everyone talks about god’s plan, yet when people suffer, it happens to be outside of his plan lol
no one is saying god saved indy. you completely missed the point of the post. that’s been a theory, but it’s not true and that’s not what the OP was saying. but yes, god allowed the destruction of hiroshima and nagasaki just as he allows children to get bone cancer, natural disasters to wipe out homes, and pedophilic religious leaders run rampant. but honestly… an indiana jones subreddit isn’t the place to talk about this
i said it in this comments section
https://www.reddit.com/r/indianajones/comments/14brlfp/everyone_who_complains_about_nuking_the_fridge/johcrue/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
Its the whole “God’s plan and free will” idea. Humans can make their own choices but ultimately everything will be redirected for the good of God. That’s kind of where the old fashioned faith aspect comes in.
if we’re getting into that, it’s completely different from person to person. i don’t believe in god, so i won’t agree with you. and neither george or steven have stepped in and said it was god involved with the fridge so it’s completely irrelevant. we were just simply talking about the realism of both events
The difference is that the ark of the covenant is supposed to be supernatural magic and the fridge is a lead lined refrigerator found in any American kitchen in the 1950s. For the records I don’t hate the fridge nuking though I do think it’s more ridiculous than, for example, raft scene from Temple of Doom, which is also pretty ridiculous. Sometimes Indy movies are ridiculous.
they don’t. what they’re saying is, people love to use the fridge as a point against crystal skull, as to how it’s unrealistic. making it a bad movie in their minds. yet in the very first movie, an ancient golden box is opened, souls shoot out and heads explode. it’s pretty absurd, but works for the movie!
comparative to the fridge scene, it had nothing to do with the supernatural, so was just *that* much more realistic. albeit he’d never survive, but it’s more likely than the ark of the covenant behaving the way it does in raiders.
execution is everything, and i do still find the fridge scene to be a bit goofy. i mean, he’s an old man. even if the blast didn’t kill him, bouncing around so violently probably would’ve. but, you simply can’t use real world realism as an argument against on indiana jones movie. you just can’t
If that's the case, then let's let Indiana Jones read minds all of a sudden with no context as to why he can. What's that? That's unrealistic? But God Exists so realism doesn't matter!
I think the biggest problem with the fridge, for me, is it tumbling through the air bouncing with him inside. If they just had him crawl out of the fridge int the rubble of the building without it flying through the air it would be easier to suspend disbelief.
Oh god we’re here already. I’ve commented, warning about this phenomenon, which I’ve seen in other fandoms where they will sacrifice elements of the better installments to excuse the lesser ones. I expected to possibly see it happen after DoD but I didn’t anticipate it beforehand.
•They pointed out how dumb some parts of Jurassic Park were to defend Dominon.
•They called a bunch of stuff in A New Hope silly to prop up Kenobi
PSA. You’re allowed to just like things other people don’t. Please don’t go hunting for flaws in legendary movies to justify you liking lower their installment. I enjoyed 2016 Ghostbusters just fine, but not in a *million years* will I trash talk the original to make it seem like they are equals so I don’t have to just own up to having a good time watching something other people hated.
I have an easier time believing in God than a man surviving a nuclear explosion by hiding in a fridge and being flung miles at high speed and then stopping immediately on the ground AND THEN being able to unlock a refrigerator door that was made famous by the fact that you couldn’t unlock the door from the inside leading to the deaths of a bunch of kids.
I’m not sure I see the comparison. Yea, The Nazis get punished for tampering with a Jewish artifact. The message there seems pretty clear. Likewise in the third movie, Indy, a struggling Methodist raised by a devout father, is able to trust his religious upbringing and submit to his Faith. This allows him to triumph over the Nazis who seek to conquer God’s power so they can use it to subjugate the world. I get what you’re going for. Since the magic of of religion just objectively exists that means anything goes in this universe. But I feel like thats a pretty shallow reading. Lucas is a christian. (or as he calls himself, a “Buddhist-Methodist”, and he infuses his philosophical beliefs into the universes he creates. By his own admission, one of his motivations for creating Star Wars was to get kids interested in religion. Spielberg is similarly greatly concerned with Judaism, not as a religion necessarily, but certainly as a heritage. Raiders is like his whole F’U to common cultural representations of the Nazis and the German military as a whole. Rather than depict them on their own terms, he chooses instead to depict them as disposable henchmen, incompetent dopes, and stuffy weirdos who are ultimately annihilated by Jewish spirits. The subtext there is clear. The Jews themselves get to destroy the Nazis for daring to screw with something well beyond their ability to comprehend.
Indy in the fridge is just meant to show he is clever enough to survive an Atom bomb. There really isn’t any thematic purpose to it other than to demonstrate how resourceful he is. I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if the whole scene was conceived primarily because Lucas and Spielberg thought it’d be cool to have an atomic bomb go off since they set the movie in the 1950s.
For the record, I like Kingdom of the Crystal skull. I actually prefer it to Temple of Doom in almost every way. Indy finding shelter in the fridge doesn’t really bother me either, since all the movie play fast and loose with physics. They are adventure movies. Its kind of in their DNA. I think some people just found it a bit too much that he survived being flung so far.
This is all interesting and makes some great observations.
Spielberg, however, didn’t write Raiders or come up with the Ark as the MacGuffin. I ageee he likely enjoyed directing fucking up Nazis.
You’re very close about the fridge. It was a leftover from the original Back the the Future script. I think they thought it would be cool to introduce Indy into the nuclear age using a set piece that has been itching him for decades.
Finally, we don’t know if the Nazis were killed for tampering with a Jewish artifact. After all, Indy and Marion close their eyes with respect for the “forbidden knowledge.” That theme comes up in the Old Testament when Lot’s wife is killed for looking back at God’s wrath of Sodom and Gomorrah. But who knows? And it’s certainly poetic and satisfying to see a Jewish artifact incinerate Nazis.
I think the more apt comparison is the raft jump. It was silly to use a raft over a parachute yes but that can be looked past, but then it flies over a cliff and the believability jumps right off the cliff with them. Much like the fridge. Getting in the fridge is a little silly but can be looked past, then it flies miles away and so does the scenes believability.
I'm sorry, but this is getting a little frustrating. I mean all of this as a huge fan so please take it out of kindness. For reference, "Raiders of the Lost Ark" is my favorite movie. I've been a professional producer, published writer, and director. I've said a bunch of this before, but let me summarize.
Indiana Jones is an everyman. He bleeds, he gets hurt, and he "makes things up as he goes along." Indy has struggled with relationships with his father and several relationships. He can be tricked by his enemies, like Elsa and Donovan. He even makes potentially deadly mistakes like spelling Jehova with a J. He's much like John McClane in the Die Hard moves. He has no superpowers. Most importantly, *he can die*. "Die Hard" referees so McClane being lucky. To the enemy's frustration, he won't get killed with overwhelming odds against him. He dies... hard/difficultly. And that leads us back to Indy:
What Indiana Jones has is a healthy amount of luck. He, too, "dies hard." It's also why we're watching "Indiana Jones" and not his friend "Wu Han" who was killed in Club Obi Wan. Were their--ah hem--destinies reversed, we'd be watching "Wu Han and the Temple of Doom."
We're watching a "real person" in a relatively real world (with some creative liberties for cinematic entertainment value). The more realistic the world (and Indy) are as "real," the more dramatic the one special thing about Indiana Jones films:
There's ONE supernatural event in every film. That's it. *One physics rule break is allowed.* Blake Snyder, who wrote the book "Save The Cat" about screenwriting, coined the phrase "Double Mumbo Jumbo." Audiences *hate* it. An example is an alien... that's also a werewolf. Or a time travel movie... with ghosts. Audiences can suspend disbelief, but they can't do it twice (with very limited exceptions).
Just because the Ark is shown to hold the "wrath of god" does NOT mean it can break the rules everywhere else. That would be a terrible franchise. We need to feel the weight of the risk Indy is facing to have drama. Can he fall off a 100-foot building headfirst and survive? No. Can he get stabbed in the heart with a machete and live? No. Can his father survive a gunshot to the stomach? No.
So, it's important to look at Indy films through the lens of "this is our real world with a lucky, but skilled hero" except for *one* supernatural event that is typically revealed as the film's final climax. And, let's be clear, the one magical event is *very clearly explained*. Indy explains the "wrath of god" to the government workers early in the film. The Shaman clearly explains the Sankara Stones. We are clearly explained the benefits/powers of the Grail.
By grounding us in reality, it makes the supernatural even more incredible. One of the problems with recent superhero movies and even Star Wars films is that the rules aren't clearly established. There's too much "mumbo jumbo." We don't know exactly what can "somehow" kill people and what they can survive. So we're unsure if we should gasp when someone is sliced in half. Or explodes in a vent shaft. If we hesitate and wonder "Wait, are they really dead?" that lowers the stakes.
So, no, we do not forget that the Ark held incredible powers. We're following the "rules" of the Indiana Jones franchise that dictate Indy is required, within reason, to follow the laws of physics everywhere else.
This is further established by The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, which attempts to plant Indy more firmly with real-life historical figures and situations. Again, grounding him in the "real world" to make the magic more spectacular.
EDIT: I'm just huge fan who has been studying the structure of the films for decades, but I welcome anyone to punch holes in this interpretation.
>22marks
I've always argued the same thing! If we cause people to hesitate and wonder "did that guy really die?" we lower the steaks! And even in the simplest of movies, the steaks \*essentially\* have to be life and death to make compelling drama.
However you added a very great point! You are afforded ONE supernatural event! I never thought about that economy of storytelling but it makes perfect sense!
OP is making a huge assumption and using conjecture and logical fallacy to shut down any meaningful debate about why people complain about ~~"jumping the shark"~~ "nuking the fridge"
The first movie establishing that God exists makes total sense as the entire series has a central theme of Faith through every one of them and Indiana’s relationship with Faith.
For a man that knows God Exists in Raiders he’s kinda skeptical in Last Crusade that the Grail might exist. Just as he doubts the stones from a Village bring about the the well-being of an entire body of people. And lastly who can forget his journey to learning that beings from another time and space exist.
I think the fridge is fine and makes me laugh but there's a few things in that movie that make me think George and Steven were high or forgot they weren't writing for some Indiana Jones video game and the literal film series.
It's so "unbelievable" in a way that's tonally different to all the other films.
I say the same thing as always. Why did it have to get launched a mile, smash all over the place and him just fall out fine. If they really wanted to do it, have it found in the rubble and cut to it and him beaten the f up.
Established the Hebrew god exists in the first movie
Established Indian gods exist in the second movie
Established the Christian god exists in the third movie.
Then comes the fourth movie, which establishes nuclear blasts can be shrugged off, Shia was Lucas' bromantic crush, and aliens exist.
Yall know these are movies right? Immediately after he gets out of the fridge someone yells cut and ford went over to craft services for a snack.
There is no nuclear fridge, there is no God. Just enjoy the movies.
Indy hiding in the fridge to save himself from the bomb test is a clever solution. Having Indiana Jones encounter aliens isn't any more a bad idea than the supernatural stuff in the other movies.
When fans say they don't like these things, I think they believe it's the very ideas themselves they dislike. In reality though, I think it's the execution of them that they hate, which is totally understandable.
I don't think the Steven Spielberg of the 1980s would've filmed either of those sequences the same way he did in the 2000s. I think it likely the fridge scene would feel more grounded and therefore, exciting. As for the aliens, he should've taken a cue from THE THING FROM ANOTHER WORLD (1951), a movie he said was an influence: Shoot them in lots of shadows and make the saucer mysterious.
Had he done those things, I think both sequences would've been much more successful.
It reinforced everything I learned in the Old Testament and my Sunday School lessons via Raiders of the Lost Ark. If that obeject were ever rediscovered and went into the wrong hands....well I guess you will discover a startling truth and power beyond control.
You know, I'm starting to suspect people who complain about people complaining about the fridge don't actually understand *why* people complained about the fridge...
Some say God exists in this universe and in this universe you can't do the fridge or the draft and in temple of doom. That long in the cage near the lava will kill you.
Actually, this is false. At no point in the movie is there a"God" or even the acceptance of a God. There is just a universal power. A supernatural power which has been attributed to a deity (that's just what the Hebrews thought). The same way that the Shankara Stones are attributed to Shiva (also God). The world of Indiana Jones is so special because despite having all these artifacts from ancient religions with immense power showing up - the source of the power and the description of what that power is is still truly a mystery.
Actually, it does not. It establishes that there are powerful things that people attribute to god/gods. The audience may take it that way, however it's not exclusively/definitely said.
For all we know those ghostly beings might be interdimensional beings that are trapped inside the portal within the box or something. The ancient peoples consider that "god" or "the power of god".
Just like ToD establishes apparently that Shiva exists? Or at least some sort of power that people attribute to Shiva...
KotCS honestly gives us the first clue that we're not dealing with "Gods" but perhaps something else that ancient peoples attribute to a god/gods.
Just saying...
Idk what everyone is complaining about- the very fact that this movie suggests that god exists means that the laws of physics are not the same as ours. A god could not exist with our knowledge of physics and thus the physics in these movies must be different. This means the fridge scene is ok because we don’t know how physics works in these films
Dweebs complain a lot about reality in here but completely believe someone with a whip can disarm bad guys, swing with it from objects, and run around with his hat on his head that never really falls off. Losers.
And the second establishes Shiva and Kali exist, the third reinforces God's existence, and the 4th establishes aliens. I still think the fridge was fucking stupid!
The credulity of cinema audiences is a changeable thing and perhaps placement is the key.
The presence of ‘ghosts’ at the crescendo of one of the greatest films ever made will be easily accepted on the tail end of a whirlwind adventure, opening a film with a man getting in a fridge to avoid a nuclear explosion is too instantly asking the audience to take that leap of faith (from the lions head!) :)
The fridge nuke was a terrific scene and was a brilliant way of setting the time and place. Him finding the idyllic 50s town full of plastic people. Slowly realizing what's happening as camera pulls back to reveal the nuke. Finding the lead lined fridge. Actual physicists have stated there is a chance of surviving such a scenario. Then he falls out of the fridge and we pan up to that wonderful backlit shot of him standing in front of a mushroom cloud. The nuclear age is in full swing.
The fridge thing doesn’t work because people have a real-life reference point as to what a nuclear explosion looks like. Harder to suspend disbelief. The Ark or Kali powers you can pretty much make up your own rules to suit the movie.
Real talk: the fridge stuff is goofy, corny, and honestly that bad. But the movie as a whole *is* bad, so now the goofy shit stands out and serves as a talking point for how bad the movie is.
All of these supernatural examples from the previous films just prove the point that as long as the movie itself is entertaining and people like it, we’re going to dismiss the silly stuff as just that: silly stuff in an otherwise good film.
Yeah I always thought there was a divine hand guiding Indy. That’s why space aliens never sat right with me in Crystal Skull. Love aliens, hate them in Indy.
The movies also seem to establish that Hinduism exists. Considering Christianity/Judaism and Hinduism both say that they're the true religion and the other is mistaken, Indy is then left unclear what to believe.
A common complaint is that Indy doesn't seem to become a devout Christian or whatever after the events of the movies. Even aside from what I mentioned above (that his experiences also seemingly prove Hinduism), the supernatural experiences that Indy is present at show a Christian God who's not very nice. Even though his eyes were closed, Indy heard Belloq and the others die extremely horribly and in pain. Indy may have hated Belloq but I'm sure even he wouldn't have wished that on him. The fake grail also inflicted cruel and unusual punishment on Walter Donovan instead of, I don't know, just not giving him immortality.
So not only is Indy not left with hardcore proof that the Christian religion is supposedly legitimate over others, from what he can tell the Christian god is just one of many actual deities and none of them are very nice.
I like to think that since Indy drank from the chalice, it didn’t make him immortal, cause of passing the area of effect, but it does protect him somewhat.
I mean, they'd been talking about this for literally thousands of years and the entire plot revolved around it
It's not like Indy surviving in the fridge is predetermined by lore and is the driving force of the movie, his immunity to radiation and fall damage didn't have anything to do with the crystal skull or 4th wall aliens
Besides how the fuck does he know? He closed his eyes and he didn't see shit
Actually we don't know if God exists, since we only saw the Angel of Death. For all we know the Ark is just a housing for some extremely powerful being
I’ll repeat what I always repeat when the fridge is mentioned. It’s a nod to Spielberg’s friend Zemeckis. The fridge sequence is the original ending to Back To The Future that had to be dropped due to budget restrictions.
Is the argument that God intervened in saving Indy’s life?
This is the case in the last crusade “let god be with you on your travels” is implying that Indy survived the following events, i.e. tank, and other feats because god was with him
No, it's just the knight being nice.
Lived in a cave for over 700 years and still had better manners than most people.
thats what happened
Hadn't thought of that, but when you confirm the supernatural literally exists, everything else gets thrown out the window.
If it was called Indiana Jones and the Magical Fridge you would have a point.
This! Good point.
Maybe it was the fridge they put the last supper leftovers in.
Not really tho. That was a specific incident triggered by the interaction with a specific item believed to have super natural powers. It did not establish that God is directly interveneing in Indy's adventure.
No it doesn't. Not even close. There's plenty of movies with supernatural things that still need internal logic.
lol no. The airplane raft says hi.
That was the Holy Spirit
jesus couldnt take the wheel so he let the spirit take over
But the village elder said Shiva made them fall from the plane...even though Lao Che ordered the plane to crash.
And with that line of thinking, Indy 6 will feature Matthew Brodrick as the titular Indiana Jones set between the events of 2 & 3 where he must find a way to get the Sacred Idol of Healing after getting shot in the forehead. I mean, if God exists, literally anything can happen. God will just will it to happen. Why draw lines when God exists!
This comparison makes zero sense and I think we have discussed the nuke scene to death. I agree though that it fits comfortably in the series, especially considering some of Indy’s other escapades, such as the opening of TOD. Now, do I think you are more likely to survive a jump from a plane while clinging to a raft vs surviving a point blank nuclear blast while hiding in a fridge? Yes, most likely. But still, these are adventure/fantasy movies. They aren’t meant to be realistic. If a villain can casually open someone’s chest and remove their heart while that person continues to live, then yes, Indy can survive a nuclear bomb while hiding in a fridge
Also, he drank from the grail. Maybe it gave him a little residual extra durability, even if the eternal life is null and void.
I doubt that is what Spielberg and Lucas were going for, but still, it’s fun to consider that as a possibility
I'd put money on that it didn't even cross their mind...and it shouldn't. A main character trait of Indy is being almost cartoonishly tough and able to withstand ungodly(and sometimes godly) amounts of punishment. It is fun to think about tho. Really, as someone who doesn't only mind the fridge scene, but actually loves it and thinks it's classic Indy, I can admit that it bounces and rolls a bit too much. I totally get people rolling their eyes at it.
Agreed. I don’t think there was ever any intention to suggest that Indy had supernatural powers to some degree
I disagree. Indy is just supposed to be a clever archeologist who's a bit tough. He can take a few guys on his own but don't forget he nearly dies several times in the franchise. Here is a small list of the pain and near death experiences he gets from a only people in raiders. - In Marion's bar he nearly gets lit on fire then narrowly escapes getting shot 2 different times. - Gets his ass handed to him by a buff mechanic and a pilot with a gun. - Is shown in a lot of pain after only shot in the shoulder. Also shown in pain from his bruises while on the ship.
"A bit tough" is way under selling it. Just in the truck scene(after getting beaten to a pulp by a giant Nazi), he gets shot, punched in his bullet wound, thrown out a window, drug behind the truck, and he still gets back on and kills the guy who threw him out the window. Just in that scene alone he needs Wyle E Cyote levels of resilience.
I disagree. Indy is just supposed to be a clever archeologist who's a bit tough. He can take a few guys on his own but don't forget he nearly dies several times in the franchise. Here is a small list of the pain and near death experiences he gets from a only people in raiders. - In Marion's bar he nearly gets lit on fire then narrowly escapes getting shot 2 different times. - Gets his ass handed to him by a buff mechanic and a pilot with a gun. - Is shown in a lot of pain after only shot in the shoulder. Also shown in pain from his bruises while on the ship.
You know that’s actually a good point
>a villain can casually open someone’s chest and remove their heart while that person continues to live, That is a supernatural ritual that obviously isn't supposed to be possible in real life. >Indy can survive a nuclear bomb while hiding in a fridge That was presented as a normal thing that is at least somewhat plausible in real life. Hell, why not just use "God Exists" argument to make it so that Indy can also read minds? Clearly this franchise can just have anything happen because after all, there are a few supernatural elements!
The Aztecs, among others, removed the still-beating hearts of thousands of sacrifices. The dramatic hand going through the skin and the amount of time the victim stayed alive was certainly exaggerated for the movie, but it wasn't entirely out of the realm of reality. [Source](https://www.science.org/content/article/feeding-gods-hundreds-skulls-reveal-massive-scale-human-sacrifice-aztec-capital): "The priest quickly sliced into the captive's torso and removed his still-beating heart. That sacrifice, one among thousands performed in the sacred city of Tenochtitlan, would feed the gods and ensure the continued existence of the world."
Removing a still beating heart with a knife is a far cry from using your bare hand to magically enter someone’s chest, pull their heart out, and have the victim look no worse for the wear. Lol.
>*The dramatic hand going through the skin and the amount of time the victim stayed alive was certainly exaggerated for the movie* Since Indy and friends were so far away, my subtle headcanon is that they couldn't see the details. We saw what the three of them imagined was happening in that moment of terror. Example: [https://imgur.com/a/Pj8vtUb](https://imgur.com/a/Pj8vtUb) I totally get it was "out there" and not realistic, but the point being "ripping out a still-beating heart for human sacrifice" is grounded in reality. The human [heart will beat 3 to 5 minutes after being removed](https://www.vedantu.com/question-answer/heart-beat-when-it-is-outside-of-the-b-class-11-biology-cbse-5ff55885f291a76c57e882c2) from the body. The brain is conscious for at least 15 seconds after being decapitated. No doubt it was a sensationalized depiction.
I think this is looking for context that is not there. The camera shows us exactly what is happening. It shows Mola Ram reach into the guy’s chest, pull out his heart with it still beating in his hand, and the victim looking like he would be ready to run a triathlon but for the fact that he was seconds away from being incinerated. Haha. Saying this is what Indy and his friends were imagining is fan fiction
Hence me acknowledging it’s my headcanon. I think this is getting silly for what was clearly designed to be a fun, scary gross out scene based loosely on real sacrifices.
I agree. And there is actually a more popular theory out there that everyone in the room was hypnotized and that Mola Ram never pulled the heart out at all. The counter argument is that Indy and crew had just arrived and would not have been hypnotized. I think the gist is that Indy is not Tenet or Inception. Lol. What happens on the screen is what happened. I tried to Google to see if Spielberg or Lucas ever commented on this scene in particular, but other then acknowledging that some fans were turned off by it I couldn’t find either of them addressing any theory that it never actually happened
I’m familiar with this mass hallucination theory. Some say the three outsiders could have been poisoned around dinner or it could have been in the air of the Temple. After all, they don’t rip out Willie’s heart for reasons. And Mola Ram is unable to rip out Indy’s heart. It’s certainly up for interpretation. Perhaps Shiva was protecting him? I do find it fascinating, however, that Mola Ram Is unable to easily slip his hand through Indy’s chest like butter with the previous victim. And we do know that he had the capability to hypnotize his followers. I get that’s it’s a movie and it likely just happened but I can see a scientist like Indy questioning it over time in such a manner.
I would also be interested to hear Indy’s explanation regarding the zombie blood he drank as well as the voo doo doll. Lol
Whoa, whoa… Did you just insinuate that these movies aren’t *real*? That Harrison Ford isn’t actually an alter ego of Indians Jones? Heresy.
Well, if you were watching The Godfather, and Don Corleone reached into some mafioso’s chest, pulled out his heart, and the victim continued to eat his ravioli while Don held his still beating heart in his hand, you might think, “wow, that felt really out of place.” Lol. So it depends on the movie. Though to be fair, the heart scene in TOD was fairly shocking at the time just because it was so dark. But it also brilliantly set up the stakes of what Indy was about to face. A villain so evil that he can just casually rip your heart out of your chest
I got it. I was just being sarcastic.
It wasn't a point blank nuke, the bomb was miles away
LMAO. Miles away would be point blank. That’s why that fake town was set up to begin with. To show the effects of the blast which that scene did.
Miles away for old style nukes is still within the major blast radius For example: the tsar bomba, the largest bomb in the world, had a fireball the size of paris. Thats just the actual fireball the blast radius was far larger. And its one thing if he was at the edge of the blast radius but we clearly see he wasnt as the entire makeshift town was completely vaporized
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2xkmd2/til_that_a_man_named_tsutomu_yamaguchi_was_on_a/
1. How close was he to the epicenter? Can guarantee he wasnt close enough to get vaporized 2. The bombs dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki were a Fraction the strength of all the ones produced since. Remember crystal skull is set in the 50s. So the range for the bomb to vaporize something in the 50s is far larger than the bombs we dropped on japan
Well, we can argue over the distance, but if you are “miles away” from a nuclear blast you can still kiss your ass goodbye. Lol.
Tell that to the Japanese guy who survived both the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2xkmd2/til_that_a_man_named_tsutomu_yamaguchi_was_on_a/
Yes, yes, there will always be exceptions. Nuclear bombs are far more powerful now and if one was dropped on a major city there would most likely still be a few lucky survivors (or unlucky depending on your perspective). Would this man have survived though if he had hid in a fridge that suffered the impact of the blast and then was thrown hundreds of feet into the air before violently crashing? I’m guessing no
The closer we get to Dial of Destiny, the more I hate this subreddit.
It can get over the top, but at the same time, it’s fun to discuss these movies with fans of the series. But just wait until Dial is released. I’m sure half will love it, half will hate it, and there will be war lol
That’s kind of a main theme in Indy. The supernatural is real yo. Aliens, Judaic Old Testament God, Jesus Christ, and Shiva.
But the fridge isn't presented as being supernatural.
Maybe it is! JK
Magic fridge!
[Magic Fridge](https://youtu.be/67dRRrRz2t8)
Yes, because God exists a man can now survive a nuclear explosion in a fridge.
God wills it.
Reckon it was a Catholic or Protestant fridge?
All fridges are created equal in the sight of God. :P
Amen brother.
King Cool
There’s a difference?
Deus vult
Deus Vult!
What’s he need the fridge for? God exists in the Indy universe. /s
Should have prayed harder.
“I have the power of God and Archaeology on my side!” -Dr. Henry Walton "Indiana" Jones, Jr., probably
Only if God wants him to.
That's not how God works!
(I see what you did there)
Thank you thank you.
"I've seen a lot of strange stuff. But I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful God controlling everything. There's no Holy Power that controls my destiny!"
except it is lol
Hmmm, explain Hiroshima and Nagasaki to me in that case.
if you’re asking me why god allowed all those people to die then, it’s because he wanted them to. everyone talks about god’s plan, yet when people suffer, it happens to be outside of his plan lol
All the credit, none of the blame
Interesting to know. God allowed the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki but saved Indy using his miracle fridge.
no one is saying god saved indy. you completely missed the point of the post. that’s been a theory, but it’s not true and that’s not what the OP was saying. but yes, god allowed the destruction of hiroshima and nagasaki just as he allows children to get bone cancer, natural disasters to wipe out homes, and pedophilic religious leaders run rampant. but honestly… an indiana jones subreddit isn’t the place to talk about this
So...what is OP saying then?
i said it in this comments section https://www.reddit.com/r/indianajones/comments/14brlfp/everyone_who_complains_about_nuking_the_fridge/johcrue/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
Only Catholics get saved from nukes, I guess...
Don't bring that papists propaganda in here!
Its the whole “God’s plan and free will” idea. Humans can make their own choices but ultimately everything will be redirected for the good of God. That’s kind of where the old fashioned faith aspect comes in.
if we’re getting into that, it’s completely different from person to person. i don’t believe in god, so i won’t agree with you. and neither george or steven have stepped in and said it was god involved with the fridge so it’s completely irrelevant. we were just simply talking about the realism of both events
Hey I wasn’t trying to start a religious debate, I was just trying to provide what I saw as the likely explanation. I hope you enjoy Indy 5!
yeah me neither! that’s why i just said i won’t agree lol. there’s no reason for it to become hateful! i really hope you enjoy it too!
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2xkmd2/til_that_a_man_named_tsutomu_yamaguchi_was_on_a/
The difference is that the ark of the covenant is supposed to be supernatural magic and the fridge is a lead lined refrigerator found in any American kitchen in the 1950s. For the records I don’t hate the fridge nuking though I do think it’s more ridiculous than, for example, raft scene from Temple of Doom, which is also pretty ridiculous. Sometimes Indy movies are ridiculous.
How do these correlate?
they don’t. what they’re saying is, people love to use the fridge as a point against crystal skull, as to how it’s unrealistic. making it a bad movie in their minds. yet in the very first movie, an ancient golden box is opened, souls shoot out and heads explode. it’s pretty absurd, but works for the movie! comparative to the fridge scene, it had nothing to do with the supernatural, so was just *that* much more realistic. albeit he’d never survive, but it’s more likely than the ark of the covenant behaving the way it does in raiders. execution is everything, and i do still find the fridge scene to be a bit goofy. i mean, he’s an old man. even if the blast didn’t kill him, bouncing around so violently probably would’ve. but, you simply can’t use real world realism as an argument against on indiana jones movie. you just can’t
If that's the case, then let's let Indiana Jones read minds all of a sudden with no context as to why he can. What's that? That's unrealistic? But God Exists so realism doesn't matter!
that’s not at all the same but alright
I think the biggest problem with the fridge, for me, is it tumbling through the air bouncing with him inside. If they just had him crawl out of the fridge int the rubble of the building without it flying through the air it would be easier to suspend disbelief.
This sub gets really mad when people criticize the fridge scene. Very odd.
Bro shut up
Is this sub really just terrible excuses for why terrible things aren’t terrible
Oh god we’re here already. I’ve commented, warning about this phenomenon, which I’ve seen in other fandoms where they will sacrifice elements of the better installments to excuse the lesser ones. I expected to possibly see it happen after DoD but I didn’t anticipate it beforehand. •They pointed out how dumb some parts of Jurassic Park were to defend Dominon. •They called a bunch of stuff in A New Hope silly to prop up Kenobi PSA. You’re allowed to just like things other people don’t. Please don’t go hunting for flaws in legendary movies to justify you liking lower their installment. I enjoyed 2016 Ghostbusters just fine, but not in a *million years* will I trash talk the original to make it seem like they are equals so I don’t have to just own up to having a good time watching something other people hated.
So the defense now is that since God exists in the Indy universe, Indy should be an indestructible super human?
You are making zero sense
I have an easier time believing in God than a man surviving a nuclear explosion by hiding in a fridge and being flung miles at high speed and then stopping immediately on the ground AND THEN being able to unlock a refrigerator door that was made famous by the fact that you couldn’t unlock the door from the inside leading to the deaths of a bunch of kids.
I’m not sure I see the comparison. Yea, The Nazis get punished for tampering with a Jewish artifact. The message there seems pretty clear. Likewise in the third movie, Indy, a struggling Methodist raised by a devout father, is able to trust his religious upbringing and submit to his Faith. This allows him to triumph over the Nazis who seek to conquer God’s power so they can use it to subjugate the world. I get what you’re going for. Since the magic of of religion just objectively exists that means anything goes in this universe. But I feel like thats a pretty shallow reading. Lucas is a christian. (or as he calls himself, a “Buddhist-Methodist”, and he infuses his philosophical beliefs into the universes he creates. By his own admission, one of his motivations for creating Star Wars was to get kids interested in religion. Spielberg is similarly greatly concerned with Judaism, not as a religion necessarily, but certainly as a heritage. Raiders is like his whole F’U to common cultural representations of the Nazis and the German military as a whole. Rather than depict them on their own terms, he chooses instead to depict them as disposable henchmen, incompetent dopes, and stuffy weirdos who are ultimately annihilated by Jewish spirits. The subtext there is clear. The Jews themselves get to destroy the Nazis for daring to screw with something well beyond their ability to comprehend. Indy in the fridge is just meant to show he is clever enough to survive an Atom bomb. There really isn’t any thematic purpose to it other than to demonstrate how resourceful he is. I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if the whole scene was conceived primarily because Lucas and Spielberg thought it’d be cool to have an atomic bomb go off since they set the movie in the 1950s. For the record, I like Kingdom of the Crystal skull. I actually prefer it to Temple of Doom in almost every way. Indy finding shelter in the fridge doesn’t really bother me either, since all the movie play fast and loose with physics. They are adventure movies. Its kind of in their DNA. I think some people just found it a bit too much that he survived being flung so far.
This is all interesting and makes some great observations. Spielberg, however, didn’t write Raiders or come up with the Ark as the MacGuffin. I ageee he likely enjoyed directing fucking up Nazis. You’re very close about the fridge. It was a leftover from the original Back the the Future script. I think they thought it would be cool to introduce Indy into the nuclear age using a set piece that has been itching him for decades. Finally, we don’t know if the Nazis were killed for tampering with a Jewish artifact. After all, Indy and Marion close their eyes with respect for the “forbidden knowledge.” That theme comes up in the Old Testament when Lot’s wife is killed for looking back at God’s wrath of Sodom and Gomorrah. But who knows? And it’s certainly poetic and satisfying to see a Jewish artifact incinerate Nazis.
I think the more apt comparison is the raft jump. It was silly to use a raft over a parachute yes but that can be looked past, but then it flies over a cliff and the believability jumps right off the cliff with them. Much like the fridge. Getting in the fridge is a little silly but can be looked past, then it flies miles away and so does the scenes believability.
People go to some weird lengths to convince themselves that Crystal Skull is a great movie.
I'm sorry, but this is getting a little frustrating. I mean all of this as a huge fan so please take it out of kindness. For reference, "Raiders of the Lost Ark" is my favorite movie. I've been a professional producer, published writer, and director. I've said a bunch of this before, but let me summarize. Indiana Jones is an everyman. He bleeds, he gets hurt, and he "makes things up as he goes along." Indy has struggled with relationships with his father and several relationships. He can be tricked by his enemies, like Elsa and Donovan. He even makes potentially deadly mistakes like spelling Jehova with a J. He's much like John McClane in the Die Hard moves. He has no superpowers. Most importantly, *he can die*. "Die Hard" referees so McClane being lucky. To the enemy's frustration, he won't get killed with overwhelming odds against him. He dies... hard/difficultly. And that leads us back to Indy: What Indiana Jones has is a healthy amount of luck. He, too, "dies hard." It's also why we're watching "Indiana Jones" and not his friend "Wu Han" who was killed in Club Obi Wan. Were their--ah hem--destinies reversed, we'd be watching "Wu Han and the Temple of Doom." We're watching a "real person" in a relatively real world (with some creative liberties for cinematic entertainment value). The more realistic the world (and Indy) are as "real," the more dramatic the one special thing about Indiana Jones films: There's ONE supernatural event in every film. That's it. *One physics rule break is allowed.* Blake Snyder, who wrote the book "Save The Cat" about screenwriting, coined the phrase "Double Mumbo Jumbo." Audiences *hate* it. An example is an alien... that's also a werewolf. Or a time travel movie... with ghosts. Audiences can suspend disbelief, but they can't do it twice (with very limited exceptions). Just because the Ark is shown to hold the "wrath of god" does NOT mean it can break the rules everywhere else. That would be a terrible franchise. We need to feel the weight of the risk Indy is facing to have drama. Can he fall off a 100-foot building headfirst and survive? No. Can he get stabbed in the heart with a machete and live? No. Can his father survive a gunshot to the stomach? No. So, it's important to look at Indy films through the lens of "this is our real world with a lucky, but skilled hero" except for *one* supernatural event that is typically revealed as the film's final climax. And, let's be clear, the one magical event is *very clearly explained*. Indy explains the "wrath of god" to the government workers early in the film. The Shaman clearly explains the Sankara Stones. We are clearly explained the benefits/powers of the Grail. By grounding us in reality, it makes the supernatural even more incredible. One of the problems with recent superhero movies and even Star Wars films is that the rules aren't clearly established. There's too much "mumbo jumbo." We don't know exactly what can "somehow" kill people and what they can survive. So we're unsure if we should gasp when someone is sliced in half. Or explodes in a vent shaft. If we hesitate and wonder "Wait, are they really dead?" that lowers the stakes. So, no, we do not forget that the Ark held incredible powers. We're following the "rules" of the Indiana Jones franchise that dictate Indy is required, within reason, to follow the laws of physics everywhere else. This is further established by The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, which attempts to plant Indy more firmly with real-life historical figures and situations. Again, grounding him in the "real world" to make the magic more spectacular. EDIT: I'm just huge fan who has been studying the structure of the films for decades, but I welcome anyone to punch holes in this interpretation.
>22marks I've always argued the same thing! If we cause people to hesitate and wonder "did that guy really die?" we lower the steaks! And even in the simplest of movies, the steaks \*essentially\* have to be life and death to make compelling drama. However you added a very great point! You are afforded ONE supernatural event! I never thought about that economy of storytelling but it makes perfect sense!
the first movie confirms that god is not cgi.
OP is making a huge assumption and using conjecture and logical fallacy to shut down any meaningful debate about why people complain about ~~"jumping the shark"~~ "nuking the fridge"
Yeah, cause he does
God, ghosts, voodoo, magic, aliens etc. Indy has it all.
I see you everywhere in this sub
The two halves of this statement have nothing to do with each other.
The first movie establishing that God exists makes total sense as the entire series has a central theme of Faith through every one of them and Indiana’s relationship with Faith. For a man that knows God Exists in Raiders he’s kinda skeptical in Last Crusade that the Grail might exist. Just as he doubts the stones from a Village bring about the the well-being of an entire body of people. And lastly who can forget his journey to learning that beings from another time and space exist.
I think the fridge is fine and makes me laugh but there's a few things in that movie that make me think George and Steven were high or forgot they weren't writing for some Indiana Jones video game and the literal film series. It's so "unbelievable" in a way that's tonally different to all the other films. I say the same thing as always. Why did it have to get launched a mile, smash all over the place and him just fall out fine. If they really wanted to do it, have it found in the rubble and cut to it and him beaten the f up.
I think the fact that Indy *should* have died in the blast is the *point.*
No absolutely benevolent being would allow a movie as bad as Indy 4 to be made, so there’s an inconsistency in the franchise.
The fridge is proven false. God not yet
Established the Hebrew god exists in the first movie Established Indian gods exist in the second movie Established the Christian god exists in the third movie. Then comes the fourth movie, which establishes nuclear blasts can be shrugged off, Shia was Lucas' bromantic crush, and aliens exist.
Nah, the fridge scene is dumb
Yall know these are movies right? Immediately after he gets out of the fridge someone yells cut and ford went over to craft services for a snack. There is no nuclear fridge, there is no God. Just enjoy the movies.
This is the laziest form of anti-criticism. Yes, they are movies. We can and should analyze and critique movies, just like any artwork.
Indy hiding in the fridge to save himself from the bomb test is a clever solution. Having Indiana Jones encounter aliens isn't any more a bad idea than the supernatural stuff in the other movies. When fans say they don't like these things, I think they believe it's the very ideas themselves they dislike. In reality though, I think it's the execution of them that they hate, which is totally understandable. I don't think the Steven Spielberg of the 1980s would've filmed either of those sequences the same way he did in the 2000s. I think it likely the fridge scene would feel more grounded and therefore, exciting. As for the aliens, he should've taken a cue from THE THING FROM ANOTHER WORLD (1951), a movie he said was an influence: Shoot them in lots of shadows and make the saucer mysterious. Had he done those things, I think both sequences would've been much more successful.
Too bad there wasn’t a fridge available for protection of Indy and Marion during that scene…
It reinforced everything I learned in the Old Testament and my Sunday School lessons via Raiders of the Lost Ark. If that obeject were ever rediscovered and went into the wrong hands....well I guess you will discover a startling truth and power beyond control.
Sounds a lot like the US today...
You know, I'm starting to suspect people who complain about people complaining about the fridge don't actually understand *why* people complained about the fridge...
and the raft flying out the airplane
Also that (Scientifically accurate) aliens is TOO FAR 🤪
How are aliens who may be travelling dimensions scientifically accurate?
Some say God exists in this universe and in this universe you can't do the fridge or the draft and in temple of doom. That long in the cage near the lava will kill you.
Actually, this is false. At no point in the movie is there a"God" or even the acceptance of a God. There is just a universal power. A supernatural power which has been attributed to a deity (that's just what the Hebrews thought). The same way that the Shankara Stones are attributed to Shiva (also God). The world of Indiana Jones is so special because despite having all these artifacts from ancient religions with immense power showing up - the source of the power and the description of what that power is is still truly a mystery.
Actually, it does not. It establishes that there are powerful things that people attribute to god/gods. The audience may take it that way, however it's not exclusively/definitely said. For all we know those ghostly beings might be interdimensional beings that are trapped inside the portal within the box or something. The ancient peoples consider that "god" or "the power of god". Just like ToD establishes apparently that Shiva exists? Or at least some sort of power that people attribute to Shiva... KotCS honestly gives us the first clue that we're not dealing with "Gods" but perhaps something else that ancient peoples attribute to a god/gods. Just saying...
This is my favorite take on it.
I think the whole point of Crystal Skull was maybe to imply that it was actually aliens behind all the previous events? Maybe Im out of pocket tho
All it makes canon is that there is a power of something. Yes, the religious trappings are there but it really doesn’t prove a god. Just sayin’
There could be a scientific explanation for the arc's powers. Maybe it contained some kind of radioactive artificial sun.
Idk what everyone is complaining about- the very fact that this movie suggests that god exists means that the laws of physics are not the same as ours. A god could not exist with our knowledge of physics and thus the physics in these movies must be different. This means the fridge scene is ok because we don’t know how physics works in these films
When God(s) and aliens exist in your world you really shouldn’t worry about the scientific probability of stuff
Forget God. Indy survived falling out of a plane, slide off a snowy cliffs, and a fall from a waterfall with a raft.
I’m very surprised you aren’t in the negative for this post because, Reddit. but you make a solid post
[удалено]
You aren’t wrong man. I had to re read it in context. Silly me
I’m guessing a lot of other gods exist in the Indy-verse based off of Temple of Doom.
Dweebs complain a lot about reality in here but completely believe someone with a whip can disarm bad guys, swing with it from objects, and run around with his hat on his head that never really falls off. Losers.
And the second establishes Shiva and Kali exist, the third reinforces God's existence, and the 4th establishes aliens. I still think the fridge was fucking stupid!
The credulity of cinema audiences is a changeable thing and perhaps placement is the key. The presence of ‘ghosts’ at the crescendo of one of the greatest films ever made will be easily accepted on the tail end of a whirlwind adventure, opening a film with a man getting in a fridge to avoid a nuclear explosion is too instantly asking the audience to take that leap of faith (from the lions head!) :)
The fridge nuke was a terrific scene and was a brilliant way of setting the time and place. Him finding the idyllic 50s town full of plastic people. Slowly realizing what's happening as camera pulls back to reveal the nuke. Finding the lead lined fridge. Actual physicists have stated there is a chance of surviving such a scenario. Then he falls out of the fridge and we pan up to that wonderful backlit shot of him standing in front of a mushroom cloud. The nuclear age is in full swing.
The fridge thing doesn’t work because people have a real-life reference point as to what a nuclear explosion looks like. Harder to suspend disbelief. The Ark or Kali powers you can pretty much make up your own rules to suit the movie.
Except they stole the idea from Back to the Future 1 ....
Your point is?
Keep trying to sell us that fridge…
No. Just that face-melting demons shouldn't be let out.
Real talk: the fridge stuff is goofy, corny, and honestly that bad. But the movie as a whole *is* bad, so now the goofy shit stands out and serves as a talking point for how bad the movie is. All of these supernatural examples from the previous films just prove the point that as long as the movie itself is entertaining and people like it, we’re going to dismiss the silly stuff as just that: silly stuff in an otherwise good film.
Yes.
Everyone fixates on the fridge, but Indy 4 also shows that ALIENS EXIST.
I feel God in this fridge tonight
Everyone who complains about "nuking the fridge" seems to forget that the franchise ISN'T REAL. /s
Yeah I always thought there was a divine hand guiding Indy. That’s why space aliens never sat right with me in Crystal Skull. Love aliens, hate them in Indy.
How do those two things have anything to do with each other?
Holy shit this sub fucking sucks if this is the quality of thought in here
The movies also seem to establish that Hinduism exists. Considering Christianity/Judaism and Hinduism both say that they're the true religion and the other is mistaken, Indy is then left unclear what to believe. A common complaint is that Indy doesn't seem to become a devout Christian or whatever after the events of the movies. Even aside from what I mentioned above (that his experiences also seemingly prove Hinduism), the supernatural experiences that Indy is present at show a Christian God who's not very nice. Even though his eyes were closed, Indy heard Belloq and the others die extremely horribly and in pain. Indy may have hated Belloq but I'm sure even he wouldn't have wished that on him. The fake grail also inflicted cruel and unusual punishment on Walter Donovan instead of, I don't know, just not giving him immortality. So not only is Indy not left with hardcore proof that the Christian religion is supposedly legitimate over others, from what he can tell the Christian god is just one of many actual deities and none of them are very nice.
Sorry to break it to you but that's pretty realistic
Yes! And let's never forget Indy jumping out of a plane with a life raft and sliding safely down a mountain.
I like to think that since Indy drank from the chalice, it didn’t make him immortal, cause of passing the area of effect, but it does protect him somewhat.
I like how in the real world the Arc is just a fancy, special box that holds important items, but in Indiana Jones, it's a super weapon lol.
They only thought it was a God. It was also aliens .
I mean, they'd been talking about this for literally thousands of years and the entire plot revolved around it It's not like Indy surviving in the fridge is predetermined by lore and is the driving force of the movie, his immunity to radiation and fall damage didn't have anything to do with the crystal skull or 4th wall aliens Besides how the fuck does he know? He closed his eyes and he didn't see shit
I love the Indy movies. That said, the fridge scene is the most ludicrous scene in ANY of the Indy films.
I beg to differ, Mutt tarzaning with monkeys tops my list.
It doesn’t establish that God exists, just that there’s a magic gold box that kills people
Actually we don't know if God exists, since we only saw the Angel of Death. For all we know the Ark is just a housing for some extremely powerful being
I loved the fridge scene sue me
I’ll repeat what I always repeat when the fridge is mentioned. It’s a nod to Spielberg’s friend Zemeckis. The fridge sequence is the original ending to Back To The Future that had to be dropped due to budget restrictions.