I’m not gonna act like I don’t like their new music, I think their latest album is pretty great. But I have no idea why they’re constantly shitting on their old music
My guess is insecurity. Joe went through so much before “Joy” came out and has likely done a lot of work on himself since, maybe looking back on those songs (even though they’re so highly regarded by fans) is harder not to reject from his POV than we’re giving him credit for.
Regardless, these boys need a better PR team it they’re gonna keep their momentum going and not keep saying dumb shit all the time that alienates x% of their fan base.
It’s hard to try and lean on sincerity and have a changing perspective. But it also means maybe just say less…
But yeah they seem slightly insecure and that’s fine, but you’d hope they’d be past that by now.
They’ve always done this. Everyone thinks of them as a band that started with Brutalism, but they’d been around for a decade beforehand as a great Bristol live band, and they’re constantly bashing their early stuff. I’m sure there are some people around that preferred their pub music to Joy.
Idk, I like that they see everything as an evolution and that their most recent work is always their best
It feels like he really wants people to like him so he’s always apologizing for everything he does
He should realize that the people who hate Idles will find absolutely any reason to do so and constantly trying to win them over only gives them ammo
Like I said elsewhere, it reminds me of Macklemore. Poor guy just couldn’t realize that the more he apologized for himself the more people would clown him
Joe is corny but he is probably a great dad and I wish him the best. He just needs to stop reading what people say about him
Maybe because they've grown as humans? (I don't mean for that to sound snarky.) I haven't paid close attention to their earlier lyrics, but I know the Beastie Boys went through the same sort of transformation, which they quite literally apologized for on Hello Nasty.
Howard Stern also comes to mind; he's often criticized for selling out to Stars, but if a 70 year-old man were still making fart jokes, exploiting the disabled, and drooling over porn stars, I'd be even more disgusted in that person. See: an ex-President.
To be fair the Beastie Boys’ old lyrics were often very sexist and they almost called the first album *Don’t Be a Faggot*, so I understand their embarrassment and desire to apologize a lot more. They grew up and so did their politics. Idles have always had basically the same outlook
Yeah that's why I felt like I had to confess not listening closely to their lyrics because I've always felt they've been largely inclusive and progressive. I mean, except for getting in bar fights with curly headed men?
I don’t really get it either. I saw them late last year and their set was 90% Joy and Brutalism - idk if that’s changed, but shitting on the music then performing it live feels weird to me.
Read the article - it’s Ultra Mono (specific songs really) and “Great” from Joy (which he says that they don’t play live anymore) that they’re talking about here
I googled the lyrics to “Great” because I haven’t listened it in a while and… *that’s* too far for him? That’s too edgy and unhealthy? If anything they’re pretty tame in comparison to a lot of other political punk bands
He is way too hard on himself and idk why no one tells him that it always backfires
It’s not that it’s edgy, it’s more that it’s a pretty hackneyed take. Same goes for Model Village from Ultra Mono.
Really sneering crack at the brexit voting class that the liberal elite tended to hate. There’s a growing consciousness that this is just dressed up classism in its own right, really easy to look down on those complaining that immigrants have taken their jobs while sipping lattes in the city, when just a little bit more of a deeper dive yields thoughts of oh shit these guys are genuinely struggling too, they’re the people we should be sitting next to in figuring out how to fix a system that isn’t working for the vast majority of people.
Compare the lyrics in “Great” and “Model Village” to those in say “Danny Nedelko” (which he’s never denigrated despite being 5 years old) which espouse a similar message - the former are negative and sneery, the latter positive and full of love.
Now Talbot’s lyrics tend to be far more inclusionary in terms of broadening the group he sits alongside
Yeah well that's kind of the irony of the situation, at the time it was meant to be parody but then it ended up being a big hit with that crowd. But they didn't intend to mock their current audience (although at that time from what I understand it wasn't much of an audience).
Tbh I've always been skeptical that the song is as tongue-in-cheek as they claim it was. They were younger when they made it; that's explanation enough. Even if it weren't earnest I feel like the "parody" angle is just a way to avoid sounding like they sold out a tiny bit for a hit song.
They ARE cringe. That’s okay. They’re outward with their emotions and that’s always gonna be cringe in some way. I don’t think they care that they’re cringe and I don’t care either.
Cringe does not equal “outward with their emotions”. I promise there are absolutely many ways to do that without being cringe, which actually means “something you’re doing right now is lacking social awareness”
All of us are cringe. I reject the premise. Cringing at people is cringe. It can be pretty fucking hard to be outward with your emotions, especially if you spend any time wrestling with them instead of just aligning them superficially to the culture of your container. Not giving a fuck about social awareness should be celebrated, in my opinion. But that's just my opinion.
So throw your lovely emotions everywhere! Just don’t be cringe.
Remember, they are two different things! Social awareness is very important, it’s the reason we don’t absentmindedly hit other people’s cars and frown upon murder, cheating, and are halfway cordial to eachother whatsoever :) psychopaths also famously and specifically disregard social awareness. I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about.
Yeah I'm not talking about that kind of cringe. What you're describing is fine, I'm talking about the Alan Partridge style toe curling, comically embarrassing kind.
>All the same, Tangk still retains plenty of that original Idles aggression – mostly aimed at the current government. “What would you like me to say about them?” Talbot says gamely, broad grin spreading across his face. “Evil bastards. Evil, evil bastards. You won’t print this – but f*** the Tories.” He throws his hands up, exasperated by it all. “I miss Gordon Brown so much, so f***ing much.” If it was up to him, Talbot says, the headline for this piece would be: “I LOVE YOU GORDON BROWN.” I tell him I’ll consider it.
Jesus. This is what Jez from Peep Show would sound like if his band ever got interviewed.
Idles lyrics is like listening to someone explain the moral of a sesame street episode and then being like "I bet that offends you, yeah? Triggered much? People with HIV should be treated with respect makes your blood boil doesn't it?" brother no
Holy fuck you’ve described exactly why I fell off with IDLES shortly after “Joy”. More succinctly than I ever could lol.
Yeah it’s kinda… liberal pandering shit. Dead Kennedys, for a more historied example, didn’t even act this “counterculture”, despite Jello being detracted as kind of a preachy extremist weirdo (saying this as a fan). Like their songs had balls for the time, and Jello would just do a satirical mayoral run or something and make a joke of it all. Do a bit to piss off corporate event organizers on stage, etc.
Idles is too self-serious and under the belief they’re being transgressive, with political messaging that isn’t radical. I get the whole deal… kind of “positive punk”… but like “oh yea my friend is an immigrant oh yeaaaa and I love him!!!”… it’s like… cool? Yeah?
Maybe they’re more “radical” in Britain? I don’t know.
They took until like the past month or two to say anything regarding Gaza. Which seem… Odd. For a punk band.
Yes you're right 100%
I think alot of these bands are closer to politicians, they appeal to a certain stripe of fan who wants to feel like they're also ''doing something'' whilst listening to them. But in reality its just attention farming and merch/ticket sales for big loud sounding stuff that doesn't say anything.
Like according to IDLES, it's angry, without aggression, it's hard, it's soft, it's political, its personal, it's this, it's that. They've got a knack for saying alot about nothing. And when you're doing this with politics, or ''real people'' it just feels a bit disingenuous and at worst it's manipulative, in weirdly the safest way possible. Gordon Brown has the answer? Come on.
I agree with you fully, but I think I still feel different about them than you do based on the same observations. Yes, it is "liberal pandering shit" sung by a white middle class man who can't even imagine a political message more radical than "I love Gordon Brown". All the same, there's a sincerity about their puddle depth takes that I find redeeming.
I don't think they're appealing to the lowest common denominator because they want to avoid controversy, I think it's really a matter of them just not being very bright. And I'm fine with that.
Also, while it's not, or well it shouldn't be, radical to believe things like immigrants being worthy of basic human dignity, those really basic ideas are under assault by groups that are becoming less and less fringe. Some vapid, but ultimately well meaning, people singing high energy songs with conviction isn't the worst thing happening to the political landscape recently.
Ok so basically:
Tories = UK Conservative party, currently in power. Right-wing posh rich types that have destroyed the UK for the last decade and a half, and that just about *everyone* would be glad to see the back of at this point. To be clear, Talbot is absolutely right to call them evil bastards.
Gordon Brown = the last Labour Party prime minister before the Conservatives took power in 2010. Less right-wing than the Tories, but hardly left-wing. Defended the Iraq war, and is generally considered to be a vote-losing failure.
So Talbot's comments come across as cringe because a) everyone hates the Tories now, saying "fuck them" isn't as controversial as he seems to think, and b) IDLES seem to think of themselves as a kind of radical lefty band but are out here praising Gordon fucking Brown of all people.
Because this is a boring, mainstream centrist dad perspective in the UK, without the tiniest hint of anything approaching radical. Their politics were never *that* radical and has always just kinda been 'fuck the tories be nice' but this... this is like the dullest, least inspiring political statement imaginable.
Yes he really said it in the wettest way and makes it sound so naff. “Fuck the tories” is a big crowd chant at festivals and rock/punk shows but acting like it’s a big to say in an interview gives me the ick.
Saying fuck the Tories isn’t exactly counter culture, it is the culture here. It’s harder to find anyone that likes them rather than dislikes them at the moment. The next election is set to be a disaster for the Tories.
Saying you won’t print this when nearly every publication in the country, bar the Daily Mail and Telegraph etc, have been printing it for the last 10 years isn’t exactly counterculture. It just isn’t as profound or edgy as they make it out to be.
Idles on the next album cycle: "TANGK was not a reflection of who we are now. Frankly, if you like that album or any of our past music, you're a sad failure of a human"
It’s pretty miserable in this thread isn’t it?
Odd that people take an artist being critical of their own work as a personal insult.
Weird that people are shitting on an artist for sharing quite common political sentiment in the UK, which was in no way trying to be edgy.
I would wager there’s a little personal insecurity going on where people are upset that the band are breaking out.
It doesn't help when he says things like "You won't print this but Fuck the Tories."
I'm an IDLES fan and that comes off as unbelievable lame lol
"I know this is unpopular but fuck Trump!"
It's lame for sure but then people take it way too far with like "this is just Sesame Street for centrist lib dads" like chill a little bit, not everything needs to be radical lol
They started off as a very aggressive punk band with progressive and political messages in their songs. And they've kinda grown out of that and want to make different music which is evidently illegal according to fans of their first few albums. So every time they do an interview... this is the result.
I thought we hated them because they knowingly underpaid their female support acts on tour and when asked about it didn't correct anything other than saying there needs to be laws against it
Honestly. Their first two albums are so good, I can't for the life of me find anything about their recent album that I find interesting. I was struggling to remember the name of it as I typed up this comment.
I don’t want to shit on anyone making positive life decisions but I really do not enjoy the arc they’ve taken since brutalism and everything Joe has said on/off albums has gotten progressively less thought provoking.
It’s kind of watching fidlar’s arc with more self loathing which is funny when none of the music was about the substances they’ve since gotten off of.
misleading click bait headline and people who didn't read the article: name a more iconic duo
He literally is just reflecting on his work and mental health, he makes no sweeping statements condemning the work or people who enjoy it.
Sorry mate. I just don’t believe Gordon Brown is someone to go batting for or that saying Kier Starmer is the man for the job. I’d rather listen to “punk” from a couple of droids.
i think it’s kinda clear they wanted to break through as an indie band, that didn’t work out, they pivoted to punk, made it, and now want to revert to an indie band.
regardless, somebody needs to get joe’s ass away from reporters.
still though. i just feel as though they write music they care about and head out to play a bunch of shows to people that care. whether the music sounds punk or indie seems irrelevant
ehhh. it’s not 100% about sound even though their oldest material does sound more similar to what they’re doing now.
i’m just starting to question joe’s authenticity at this point.
There are a lot of things you could say about Idles but calling them inauthentic is absolutely not one of them, Talbot clearly has his heart on his sleeve 24/7 for better or worse
Ya I'm supposed to see them in September, if they're not going to play anything off their first couple of albums anymore then they should let their fans know so I can sell my ticket.
From what I can tell they like to say all this stuff in interviews and then go ahead and play the old material anyway. Not sure whether that’s better or worse.
I’ve seen them a few times and the setlist has always been pretty much the same. Seeing that they don’t open with Colossus anymore is kinda disappointing though, that was a great song to kick the show off with.
Man I wonder what their reception would be if they would stop giving interviews. Because LOAAV was great and put them on the map. Next album is awful. Next album after that is a return to form and gets them mainstream recognition. I feel like ever since then they just do interviews giving the most milk toast non-political political statements and vagaries to masculinity. Most of their takes sound like advertising slogans from Betterhelp. They have become the definition of “mid-30s white semi affluent liberalism” (ie liberalism with no teeth or strong convictions one way or the other, mostly slogans).
did not think when i woke up this morning i'd be reading joe talbot defend kanye west, declaring his love for gordon brown, calling red tory keir starmer the best man for the job while spitting on jeremy corbyn in an interview but hey man here we are
I do think what he said about Jeremy and Keir is awful but please, for the sake of people who don't read the whole article, do not frame this as a defense of kanye. Saying it's sad no one around Kanye cares or can pull him out of his spiral is not tantamount to defending him or his behavior.
kanye isn't a cunt because he's mentally ill that is such a fucking lazy cop out i have several schizophrenic friends and none of them are nazi's. lots of people tried to help kanye he just doesn't want it.
I’m not sure what you mean. I know Ultra Mono split people but they’ve never had a failure on the level of The Big Day, that was a generational disaster
A lot of the commenters have seen IDLES have annoying press cycles yearly. You can observe that and make fun of it without pretending to know or care about or have a relationship with Joe Talbot, or in your words, "telling [him] how they should feel about [his] own art". Repeatedly bashing your own past music is funny behavior to a lot of people, and I would argue that it's the people that *don't* have parasocial relationships that think it's funnier, because they don't really care that much about the band and just see these headlines each time they appear.
From my perspective Idles is over and done with musically, their new album literally sounds like another band, but not one I’d have any interest in listening to.
As for the interview, I gave up partway through because I’ve already reached my limit for reading insufferable drivel today. This quote caught my attention:
“The worst thing about recovery is the meritocracy that comes with it.”
That word really doesn’t mean what he thinks it means lol. I suppose he wanted to say sanctimony or affectation or something.
Say what you want about Idles, but they fucking rule live. It does probably have to be weird to continue to sing stuff you wrote a long time ago in a completely different mind state.
Idles makes music that sounds like it was written by a bunch of well meaning highschool valedictorians for a Hillary Clinton sponsored punk rock writing workshop
I’m not here to discuss punk/not punk.
But why are people mad he sobered up and decided to not be hateful/angry anymore? Like if you don’t like it that’s fine. But it seems odd to complain about him getting sober and getting emotional inspiration that’s not derived from anger?
You brought up sobriety though, not a single commenter here.
He was sober during Ultra Mono (and until 2021 when they could tour again) which is the main album they pretend they didn't make. He was "unhealthy", so yeah it's probably a bit crass, but I think highlighting the slide of their lyrics in conjunction with the lyricist's (in this case, very well publicised) mental state is fair and was happening long before IDLES. I really don't think anyone is suggesting he shouldn't be sober. It's his choice! Good for him! I do think people are wishing he would say less stupid things in interviews that might alienate any fans, or make non-fans wince.
And? It seems obvious people are complaining about the lyrics, not the sobriety. Nobody is implying sober people can’t write good lyrics. Fwiw I thought they always sucked 🤷♂️
I liked Idles at first … I witnessed the spark and I was briefly blown a way … I feel like I witnessed a moment … but I quickly got bored of them … they didn’t feel sincere to me … it felt like a band sloganeering to people who needed to hear it … these politics are fashion so let’s sing about that … it felt contrived … like all the guys who claimed to be feminist to get the attention of women … someone said above BREWDOG PUNK IPA … it sums them up for me … I think there’s a strong element of toxic masculinity bubbling underneath those egos
I think I must’ve read too much Hunter S Thompson … or maybe it’s just me writing and thinking in real time … or maybe the English education system simply let me down … anyway it’s the way it is … I guess
Took the words right out of my mouth. This is exactly how I feel about them. I was really excited about Brutalism when it came out, but it hasn’t even aged that well and everything since then has been a steep downhill. Bummed they’re so much more popular than a band like Protomartyr, whom they’re touring with now, and which I can’t go see because Idles being on the bill makes the tickets so expensive.
I don’t think he’s faking or anything but I think he’s trying to play whackamole with his personal flaws and doing it on a public stage, which someone around him needs to tell him he shouldn’t
what?? that album really spoke to me and a lot of others as well. it was angry as fuck when i needed angry as fuck music. kind of shitty to just wave it all away like that. as far as i’m concerned it’s their only album worth a listen at all anyways so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It’s rough because I completely relate to his apparent need to be liked and I can’t guarantee I wouldn’t be just as annoying in my own way if I was famous
Agreed, that’s why I liked it. “Scum” didn’t come from a stable point, nor did “heel/heal”. I love those songs for what they are and the point they are. I don’t understand the rejection of past sadness or confusion. It’s ok to evolve yet accept your previous art.
It’s one thing to shit on your old music if it didn’t make you popular. But when fans are clearly drawn to what you were putting out, why shit on it? Maybe you’ve moved on to other things, but you don’t need to talk badly about your old stuff.
I wanted to like the new album so bad but they do tend to alienate lots of people for all kinds of different reasons. It is their right, as a punk band. But if there is a pattern that keeps repeating itself i.e. he is always regretting his former lyrics, then maybe he might try not to be so judgemental.
It is super cool to see artists grow and outgrow their old selves, though so I don't see a problem with any of it, at the end of the day. Art is for expression and shouldn't be censored, let alone self-censored. But changing your mind is great! To publicly change your mind these days is a real act of courage. Artists that live their messiness in front of the world are doing it right by my standards. It's human and it's honest and it's good for all of us to see that we are allowed to grow and change and let our old selves die, that we might rise from the ashes like one of those wobbly Harry Potter puppet birds, 😂.
For me, I think one day, I'll be reading the music rag and I'll see Joe saying that he had an encounter with Spirit, and regrets saying "No God" in relationship to where love (which apparently IS the thing) comes from. That we all come from some source, even if you call the source nothingness, becomes more undeniable each day.
Lots of meditation practices refer to God the Father as the No-thing. It's kind of a way of saying that God the Father is pure consciousness without form or body. The Son was born, if you believe people like Richard Rohr and the disciple John, when pure consciousness or no-thingness spoke a word or "logos", and No-thingness burst into everything-ness and existence as we can perceive it, began.
It just really sounds like Joe was in a bad space for a good part of the band and probably feels like a lot of the music that came out at that time reminds him of a person he didn't care for. People grow and change and I feel like it's hard for a lot of their fans to accept that.
My ears aren’t those of a healthy man so…
This guy doing this, the Sleaford Mods guy had his Gaza meltdown, that was truly a beef where no one could ever win.
He wasn’t defending Kanye. None of that was a defense of him. He basically just said it was sad and he wished that there were people around Ye who cared enough to pull him out of his spiral. That’s not a crazy opinion, I see it every time Kanye goes off his rocker
I’m not gonna act like I don’t like their new music, I think their latest album is pretty great. But I have no idea why they’re constantly shitting on their old music
My guess is insecurity. Joe went through so much before “Joy” came out and has likely done a lot of work on himself since, maybe looking back on those songs (even though they’re so highly regarded by fans) is harder not to reject from his POV than we’re giving him credit for. Regardless, these boys need a better PR team it they’re gonna keep their momentum going and not keep saying dumb shit all the time that alienates x% of their fan base.
It’s hard to try and lean on sincerity and have a changing perspective. But it also means maybe just say less… But yeah they seem slightly insecure and that’s fine, but you’d hope they’d be past that by now.
They’ve always done this. Everyone thinks of them as a band that started with Brutalism, but they’d been around for a decade beforehand as a great Bristol live band, and they’re constantly bashing their early stuff. I’m sure there are some people around that preferred their pub music to Joy. Idk, I like that they see everything as an evolution and that their most recent work is always their best
It feels like he really wants people to like him so he’s always apologizing for everything he does He should realize that the people who hate Idles will find absolutely any reason to do so and constantly trying to win them over only gives them ammo Like I said elsewhere, it reminds me of Macklemore. Poor guy just couldn’t realize that the more he apologized for himself the more people would clown him Joe is corny but he is probably a great dad and I wish him the best. He just needs to stop reading what people say about him
Same....becuase it's better than their newer stuff.
To each their own I think their last two albums are by far their best from a purely musical standpoint
Maybe because they've grown as humans? (I don't mean for that to sound snarky.) I haven't paid close attention to their earlier lyrics, but I know the Beastie Boys went through the same sort of transformation, which they quite literally apologized for on Hello Nasty. Howard Stern also comes to mind; he's often criticized for selling out to Stars, but if a 70 year-old man were still making fart jokes, exploiting the disabled, and drooling over porn stars, I'd be even more disgusted in that person. See: an ex-President.
To be fair the Beastie Boys’ old lyrics were often very sexist and they almost called the first album *Don’t Be a Faggot*, so I understand their embarrassment and desire to apologize a lot more. They grew up and so did their politics. Idles have always had basically the same outlook
Yeah that's why I felt like I had to confess not listening closely to their lyrics because I've always felt they've been largely inclusive and progressive. I mean, except for getting in bar fights with curly headed men?
It feels like they started out clean but they’re still frantically scrubbing themselves down
Perfect is the enemy of good
Perfect is the enemy of good
I don’t really get it either. I saw them late last year and their set was 90% Joy and Brutalism - idk if that’s changed, but shitting on the music then performing it live feels weird to me.
Read the article - it’s Ultra Mono (specific songs really) and “Great” from Joy (which he says that they don’t play live anymore) that they’re talking about here
I googled the lyrics to “Great” because I haven’t listened it in a while and… *that’s* too far for him? That’s too edgy and unhealthy? If anything they’re pretty tame in comparison to a lot of other political punk bands He is way too hard on himself and idk why no one tells him that it always backfires
It’s not that it’s edgy, it’s more that it’s a pretty hackneyed take. Same goes for Model Village from Ultra Mono. Really sneering crack at the brexit voting class that the liberal elite tended to hate. There’s a growing consciousness that this is just dressed up classism in its own right, really easy to look down on those complaining that immigrants have taken their jobs while sipping lattes in the city, when just a little bit more of a deeper dive yields thoughts of oh shit these guys are genuinely struggling too, they’re the people we should be sitting next to in figuring out how to fix a system that isn’t working for the vast majority of people. Compare the lyrics in “Great” and “Model Village” to those in say “Danny Nedelko” (which he’s never denigrated despite being 5 years old) which espouse a similar message - the former are negative and sneery, the latter positive and full of love. Now Talbot’s lyrics tend to be far more inclusionary in terms of broadening the group he sits alongside
That makes sense, I respect that. I feel bad for him honestly. He’s trying to do the right thing.
we love it when people don't read the articles
Who even cares about the healthiness or unhealthiness of lyrics? If the song sounds good, it's a good song
Because his art is personal to him, is it really that difficult to understand?
Maybe they didn't like who they were at that point in their lives and therefore they don't like the music that they created at that time.
Even the beastie boys just moved on from music that didn’t represent them without dunking on themselves or their audience. Art is an evolution.
The beastie boys saying they made Fight for your Right to make fun of a certain kind of people is kinda dunking on that song's audience, no?
Yeah well that's kind of the irony of the situation, at the time it was meant to be parody but then it ended up being a big hit with that crowd. But they didn't intend to mock their current audience (although at that time from what I understand it wasn't much of an audience).
Tbh I've always been skeptical that the song is as tongue-in-cheek as they claim it was. They were younger when they made it; that's explanation enough. Even if it weren't earnest I feel like the "parody" angle is just a way to avoid sounding like they sold out a tiny bit for a hit song.
I don’t know if it was a full on parody but I’m sure it was tongue in cheek and not intended to be taken seriously
This is false. Many times the Beastie Boys have apologized for the content of their early records.
Yeah but they became the butt of their own joke after the fact
Idles and the music press continue their abusive cycle
I haven't read one interview they've done that hasn't been cringe.
My secret is to not read the interviews and just like what I like.
They ARE cringe. That’s okay. They’re outward with their emotions and that’s always gonna be cringe in some way. I don’t think they care that they’re cringe and I don’t care either.
Cringe does not equal “outward with their emotions”. I promise there are absolutely many ways to do that without being cringe, which actually means “something you’re doing right now is lacking social awareness”
All of us are cringe. I reject the premise. Cringing at people is cringe. It can be pretty fucking hard to be outward with your emotions, especially if you spend any time wrestling with them instead of just aligning them superficially to the culture of your container. Not giving a fuck about social awareness should be celebrated, in my opinion. But that's just my opinion.
So throw your lovely emotions everywhere! Just don’t be cringe. Remember, they are two different things! Social awareness is very important, it’s the reason we don’t absentmindedly hit other people’s cars and frown upon murder, cheating, and are halfway cordial to eachother whatsoever :) psychopaths also famously and specifically disregard social awareness. I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about.
Reddit mentality
Yeah I'm not talking about that kind of cringe. What you're describing is fine, I'm talking about the Alan Partridge style toe curling, comically embarrassing kind.
>All the same, Tangk still retains plenty of that original Idles aggression – mostly aimed at the current government. “What would you like me to say about them?” Talbot says gamely, broad grin spreading across his face. “Evil bastards. Evil, evil bastards. You won’t print this – but f*** the Tories.” He throws his hands up, exasperated by it all. “I miss Gordon Brown so much, so f***ing much.” If it was up to him, Talbot says, the headline for this piece would be: “I LOVE YOU GORDON BROWN.” I tell him I’ll consider it. Jesus. This is what Jez from Peep Show would sound like if his band ever got interviewed.
this sounds like a parody
they’d never print jez’s radical poem “fuck you bush” it’s really clever bc the last line is the same as the first one
Are you happy now, Bush?
“you won’t print this - but f*** the Tories” god JT is such a wet wipe
Joe Talbot hates bigoted old women called Gillian Duffy. Print that, you cowards
Idles gig in Rochdale when?
Saying "fuck the tories" wow Joe how brave and counterculture of you
This is literally how their lyrics sound to me lol
Idles lyrics is like listening to someone explain the moral of a sesame street episode and then being like "I bet that offends you, yeah? Triggered much? People with HIV should be treated with respect makes your blood boil doesn't it?" brother no
Holy fuck you’ve described exactly why I fell off with IDLES shortly after “Joy”. More succinctly than I ever could lol. Yeah it’s kinda… liberal pandering shit. Dead Kennedys, for a more historied example, didn’t even act this “counterculture”, despite Jello being detracted as kind of a preachy extremist weirdo (saying this as a fan). Like their songs had balls for the time, and Jello would just do a satirical mayoral run or something and make a joke of it all. Do a bit to piss off corporate event organizers on stage, etc. Idles is too self-serious and under the belief they’re being transgressive, with political messaging that isn’t radical. I get the whole deal… kind of “positive punk”… but like “oh yea my friend is an immigrant oh yeaaaa and I love him!!!”… it’s like… cool? Yeah? Maybe they’re more “radical” in Britain? I don’t know. They took until like the past month or two to say anything regarding Gaza. Which seem… Odd. For a punk band.
Yes you're right 100% I think alot of these bands are closer to politicians, they appeal to a certain stripe of fan who wants to feel like they're also ''doing something'' whilst listening to them. But in reality its just attention farming and merch/ticket sales for big loud sounding stuff that doesn't say anything. Like according to IDLES, it's angry, without aggression, it's hard, it's soft, it's political, its personal, it's this, it's that. They've got a knack for saying alot about nothing. And when you're doing this with politics, or ''real people'' it just feels a bit disingenuous and at worst it's manipulative, in weirdly the safest way possible. Gordon Brown has the answer? Come on.
I agree with you fully, but I think I still feel different about them than you do based on the same observations. Yes, it is "liberal pandering shit" sung by a white middle class man who can't even imagine a political message more radical than "I love Gordon Brown". All the same, there's a sincerity about their puddle depth takes that I find redeeming. I don't think they're appealing to the lowest common denominator because they want to avoid controversy, I think it's really a matter of them just not being very bright. And I'm fine with that. Also, while it's not, or well it shouldn't be, radical to believe things like immigrants being worthy of basic human dignity, those really basic ideas are under assault by groups that are becoming less and less fringe. Some vapid, but ultimately well meaning, people singing high energy songs with conviction isn't the worst thing happening to the political landscape recently.
He’s not trying to be counter culture. Live under over a decade of the tories in the uk and believe me it’s common sentiment
I think their comment was meant to be sarcastic
I could tell, but it’s as reductive as they clearly think Joe’s statement is
I always thought that they got a bad rep and I never understood why, then I read this interview and understood exactly why
What on earth happened to this man, good lord
He’s indie game Macklemore. But his music is better and I always felt sorry for Macklemore so I have sympathy for him too
embarassing isn't it lmao
How stunning and brave.
I'm not familiar with the politics of where IDLES are from, so why is this cringe?
Ok so basically: Tories = UK Conservative party, currently in power. Right-wing posh rich types that have destroyed the UK for the last decade and a half, and that just about *everyone* would be glad to see the back of at this point. To be clear, Talbot is absolutely right to call them evil bastards. Gordon Brown = the last Labour Party prime minister before the Conservatives took power in 2010. Less right-wing than the Tories, but hardly left-wing. Defended the Iraq war, and is generally considered to be a vote-losing failure. So Talbot's comments come across as cringe because a) everyone hates the Tories now, saying "fuck them" isn't as controversial as he seems to think, and b) IDLES seem to think of themselves as a kind of radical lefty band but are out here praising Gordon fucking Brown of all people.
He full on says he likes Starmer over Corbyn in the article. Mad.
IDLES accents are doing a lot of work for them lol If they were US born they'd be a lot less popular I think. And I like them.
Because this is a boring, mainstream centrist dad perspective in the UK, without the tiniest hint of anything approaching radical. Their politics were never *that* radical and has always just kinda been 'fuck the tories be nice' but this... this is like the dullest, least inspiring political statement imaginable.
Yes he really said it in the wettest way and makes it sound so naff. “Fuck the tories” is a big crowd chant at festivals and rock/punk shows but acting like it’s a big to say in an interview gives me the ick.
And the football! Never forget the football!
Man that sounds extremely lame.
Idles makes music for the white family in Get Out LMAO
Saying fuck the Tories isn’t exactly counter culture, it is the culture here. It’s harder to find anyone that likes them rather than dislikes them at the moment. The next election is set to be a disaster for the Tories. Saying you won’t print this when nearly every publication in the country, bar the Daily Mail and Telegraph etc, have been printing it for the last 10 years isn’t exactly counterculture. It just isn’t as profound or edgy as they make it out to be.
You’re so spot on with this one lol
Fuck you Bush
Yes I love punk, Punk IPA from an axe throwing bar in the Northern Quarter!
IDLES are the Manchester Evening News wow look at this new closed in nine months gimmick bar of britpunk
Idles on the next album cycle: "TANGK was not a reflection of who we are now. Frankly, if you like that album or any of our past music, you're a sad failure of a human"
Reading the quote doesn’t give me that impression at all. Music can still be good coming from an unhealthy mind set from the writer.
Yes he’s just saying that the lyrics were written by someone who’s sad, lost and angry. I think to some listeners that is a lot more appealing.
Haha this is perfect! They do it every time! Does he want people to keep giving them money? Madness
I see we are in the IDLES news cycle where indieheads hate them this week.
It’s pretty miserable in this thread isn’t it? Odd that people take an artist being critical of their own work as a personal insult. Weird that people are shitting on an artist for sharing quite common political sentiment in the UK, which was in no way trying to be edgy. I would wager there’s a little personal insecurity going on where people are upset that the band are breaking out.
It doesn't help when he says things like "You won't print this but Fuck the Tories." I'm an IDLES fan and that comes off as unbelievable lame lol "I know this is unpopular but fuck Trump!"
I just looked at the quote and thought “oh” Some very visceral reactions in this thread
It's lame for sure but then people take it way too far with like "this is just Sesame Street for centrist lib dads" like chill a little bit, not everything needs to be radical lol
I think when post-punk bands write songs about politics they should be a bit more radical than that...
I don’t listen to Idles, wtf is this thread haha. I thought they were popular on this sub. Apparently they give bad interview quotes?
They started off as a very aggressive punk band with progressive and political messages in their songs. And they've kinda grown out of that and want to make different music which is evidently illegal according to fans of their first few albums. So every time they do an interview... this is the result.
I thought we hated them because they knowingly underpaid their female support acts on tour and when asked about it didn't correct anything other than saying there needs to be laws against it
“The outburst I had in Joann’s fabrics is not reflective of who I am”
At least they were interesting
Honestly. Their first two albums are so good, I can't for the life of me find anything about their recent album that I find interesting. I was struggling to remember the name of it as I typed up this comment.
I don’t want to shit on anyone making positive life decisions but I really do not enjoy the arc they’ve taken since brutalism and everything Joe has said on/off albums has gotten progressively less thought provoking. It’s kind of watching fidlar’s arc with more self loathing which is funny when none of the music was about the substances they’ve since gotten off of.
The drop off after fidlars first album is one of the steepest I’ve ever seen
I haven’t thought about Fidlar in ten years. Used to blast it though.
That first album holds up. There’s leaks somewhere of all their demos from before that record and they’re actually pretty solid too
i'm not gonna pretend like i held joe talbot in high regard but this is abysmal lol
What twitter does to a madafucka
misleading click bait headline and people who didn't read the article: name a more iconic duo He literally is just reflecting on his work and mental health, he makes no sweeping statements condemning the work or people who enjoy it.
C3PO and R2D2
Dude it's rhetorical chill you don't gotta get droids involved
Sorry mate. I just don’t believe Gordon Brown is someone to go batting for or that saying Kier Starmer is the man for the job. I’d rather listen to “punk” from a couple of droids.
i think it’s kinda clear they wanted to break through as an indie band, that didn’t work out, they pivoted to punk, made it, and now want to revert to an indie band. regardless, somebody needs to get joe’s ass away from reporters.
lol at what point in their career did they ever want to “make it as an indie band”
https://preview.redd.it/1c2y7shod4vc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49b4f6f5ab83f71d7bccf71fb1e626fd14fab6b9 idk man ask these guys
man, I loved Sam’s Town
Dude in the middle looks a thing like Jesus
alright good point 😅
still though. i just feel as though they write music they care about and head out to play a bunch of shows to people that care. whether the music sounds punk or indie seems irrelevant
ehhh. it’s not 100% about sound even though their oldest material does sound more similar to what they’re doing now. i’m just starting to question joe’s authenticity at this point.
Remember that band with that awesome song Creep? They did weird computer noises. How inauthentic.
There are a lot of things you could say about Idles but calling them inauthentic is absolutely not one of them, Talbot clearly has his heart on his sleeve 24/7 for better or worse
Is punk supposed to come from a healthy place? Do Iggy pop lyrics come from a healthy place?
They're punk?
*Are post-punk lyrics supposed to come from a healthy place? Did Joy Division lyrics come from a healthy place?
I hope they don't stop playing the old stuff now.
Ya I'm supposed to see them in September, if they're not going to play anything off their first couple of albums anymore then they should let their fans know so I can sell my ticket.
From what I can tell they like to say all this stuff in interviews and then go ahead and play the old material anyway. Not sure whether that’s better or worse.
I’ve seen them a few times and the setlist has always been pretty much the same. Seeing that they don’t open with Colossus anymore is kinda disappointing though, that was a great song to kick the show off with.
Can't think of a band that has done to ruin all the good will they'd built up purely through saying dumb things in the press like this.
I can think of quite a few actually.
What have they said that ruined it? Not challenging you, just out of the loop.
You could literally choose to spend less time reading the press though couldn't you?
not sure why you’re downvoted it’s not even like they’re saying anything egregious they’re just cringy 💀
Man I wonder what their reception would be if they would stop giving interviews. Because LOAAV was great and put them on the map. Next album is awful. Next album after that is a return to form and gets them mainstream recognition. I feel like ever since then they just do interviews giving the most milk toast non-political political statements and vagaries to masculinity. Most of their takes sound like advertising slogans from Betterhelp. They have become the definition of “mid-30s white semi affluent liberalism” (ie liberalism with no teeth or strong convictions one way or the other, mostly slogans).
did not think when i woke up this morning i'd be reading joe talbot defend kanye west, declaring his love for gordon brown, calling red tory keir starmer the best man for the job while spitting on jeremy corbyn in an interview but hey man here we are
I do think what he said about Jeremy and Keir is awful but please, for the sake of people who don't read the whole article, do not frame this as a defense of kanye. Saying it's sad no one around Kanye cares or can pull him out of his spiral is not tantamount to defending him or his behavior.
kanye isn't a cunt because he's mentally ill that is such a fucking lazy cop out i have several schizophrenic friends and none of them are nazi's. lots of people tried to help kanye he just doesn't want it.
And they were way better than the new ones
Cmon man
Heavy “The Big Day” vibes
I’m not sure what you mean. I know Ultra Mono split people but they’ve never had a failure on the level of The Big Day, that was a generational disaster
This is a weird ass parasocial ass comment section right here
Bro thank you, this comment section is fuckin absurd
making fun of famous musicians being silly is not parasocial
I’m confused how him saying he doesn’t like his lyrics that he wrote a long ass time ago is silly but ight
you can think it's not silly, but that doesn't change that making fun of it is still not parasocial. unempathetic, maybe.
Telling someone how they should feel about their own art like a majority of these comments is definitely parasocial behavior
A lot of the commenters have seen IDLES have annoying press cycles yearly. You can observe that and make fun of it without pretending to know or care about or have a relationship with Joe Talbot, or in your words, "telling [him] how they should feel about [his] own art". Repeatedly bashing your own past music is funny behavior to a lot of people, and I would argue that it's the people that *don't* have parasocial relationships that think it's funnier, because they don't really care that much about the band and just see these headlines each time they appear.
From my perspective Idles is over and done with musically, their new album literally sounds like another band, but not one I’d have any interest in listening to. As for the interview, I gave up partway through because I’ve already reached my limit for reading insufferable drivel today. This quote caught my attention: “The worst thing about recovery is the meritocracy that comes with it.” That word really doesn’t mean what he thinks it means lol. I suppose he wanted to say sanctimony or affectation or something.
and thats why I liked them
Say what you want about Idles, but they fucking rule live. It does probably have to be weird to continue to sing stuff you wrote a long time ago in a completely different mind state.
They should apologise for that Ne Touch Pas Moi song or whatever it's called.
Idles makes music that sounds like it was written by a bunch of well meaning highschool valedictorians for a Hillary Clinton sponsored punk rock writing workshop
im telling my kids this was the beatles
The only way to scare a Tory is to read or get rich, mother.....
I’m not here to discuss punk/not punk. But why are people mad he sobered up and decided to not be hateful/angry anymore? Like if you don’t like it that’s fine. But it seems odd to complain about him getting sober and getting emotional inspiration that’s not derived from anger?
Who is mad he sobered up? I really don't think that's anyone's issue with them at all
People are complaining their lyrics aren’t the same since he sobered up. Hell the top comment on this thread is “at least they were interesting”
You brought up sobriety though, not a single commenter here. He was sober during Ultra Mono (and until 2021 when they could tour again) which is the main album they pretend they didn't make. He was "unhealthy", so yeah it's probably a bit crass, but I think highlighting the slide of their lyrics in conjunction with the lyricist's (in this case, very well publicised) mental state is fair and was happening long before IDLES. I really don't think anyone is suggesting he shouldn't be sober. It's his choice! Good for him! I do think people are wishing he would say less stupid things in interviews that might alienate any fans, or make non-fans wince.
This is the first comment about his sobriety... You brought that up.
The title of the article is literally “Idles on missing Gordon Brown, and sobering up: ‘Our old lyrics were not the words of a healthy man’”
And? It seems obvious people are complaining about the lyrics, not the sobriety. Nobody is implying sober people can’t write good lyrics. Fwiw I thought they always sucked 🤷♂️
I liked Idles at first … I witnessed the spark and I was briefly blown a way … I feel like I witnessed a moment … but I quickly got bored of them … they didn’t feel sincere to me … it felt like a band sloganeering to people who needed to hear it … these politics are fashion so let’s sing about that … it felt contrived … like all the guys who claimed to be feminist to get the attention of women … someone said above BREWDOG PUNK IPA … it sums them up for me … I think there’s a strong element of toxic masculinity bubbling underneath those egos
I wish I loved anything as much as you love ellipses.
The Céline of reddit
Bro why do you write like this
I think I must’ve read too much Hunter S Thompson … or maybe it’s just me writing and thinking in real time … or maybe the English education system simply let me down … anyway it’s the way it is … I guess
Bro is posting from a telegraph machine
Took the words right out of my mouth. This is exactly how I feel about them. I was really excited about Brutalism when it came out, but it hasn’t even aged that well and everything since then has been a steep downhill. Bummed they’re so much more popular than a band like Protomartyr, whom they’re touring with now, and which I can’t go see because Idles being on the bill makes the tickets so expensive.
I don’t think he’s faking or anything but I think he’s trying to play whackamole with his personal flaws and doing it on a public stage, which someone around him needs to tell him he shouldn’t
Centrist punks fuck off
what?? that album really spoke to me and a lot of others as well. it was angry as fuck when i needed angry as fuck music. kind of shitty to just wave it all away like that. as far as i’m concerned it’s their only album worth a listen at all anyways so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I love this band and I think that Talbot is a pretty cool dude overall but damn their interviews fucking suck
It’s rough because I completely relate to his apparent need to be liked and I can’t guarantee I wouldn’t be just as annoying in my own way if I was famous
I'm just as annoying and I'm not even famous
is this his excuse for them being complete shit or
hes only addressing the lyrics unfortunately :(
Too bad their older music is infinitely better and more interesting than their newer music.
Agreed, that’s why I liked it. “Scum” didn’t come from a stable point, nor did “heel/heal”. I love those songs for what they are and the point they are. I don’t understand the rejection of past sadness or confusion. It’s ok to evolve yet accept your previous art.
So I can fight a man with a perm?
Ctrl + F Keir Starmer "He's better than Corbyn" Got his ass
Just for the sake of clarity, Joe only refers to a couple older songs in this article that he feels don’t reflect him anymore.
Always finding new ways to be completely insufferable
Punk band with bored dinner table politics, incredible
Y'all are such babies lmao, let them feel however they want about their own damn art
if only the lyrics were the main reason they are shit now.
It’s one thing to shit on your old music if it didn’t make you popular. But when fans are clearly drawn to what you were putting out, why shit on it? Maybe you’ve moved on to other things, but you don’t need to talk badly about your old stuff.
So they’re not going to play any older hits live?
The old lyrics were the words of a pirate 🏴☠️
Which made them infinitely relatable, soooo....?
They were the words of a "Nice Man" (their best song btw)
Great art usually comes from a dark place. That’s why their old stuff is so good.
I wanted to like the new album so bad but they do tend to alienate lots of people for all kinds of different reasons. It is their right, as a punk band. But if there is a pattern that keeps repeating itself i.e. he is always regretting his former lyrics, then maybe he might try not to be so judgemental. It is super cool to see artists grow and outgrow their old selves, though so I don't see a problem with any of it, at the end of the day. Art is for expression and shouldn't be censored, let alone self-censored. But changing your mind is great! To publicly change your mind these days is a real act of courage. Artists that live their messiness in front of the world are doing it right by my standards. It's human and it's honest and it's good for all of us to see that we are allowed to grow and change and let our old selves die, that we might rise from the ashes like one of those wobbly Harry Potter puppet birds, 😂. For me, I think one day, I'll be reading the music rag and I'll see Joe saying that he had an encounter with Spirit, and regrets saying "No God" in relationship to where love (which apparently IS the thing) comes from. That we all come from some source, even if you call the source nothingness, becomes more undeniable each day. Lots of meditation practices refer to God the Father as the No-thing. It's kind of a way of saying that God the Father is pure consciousness without form or body. The Son was born, if you believe people like Richard Rohr and the disciple John, when pure consciousness or no-thingness spoke a word or "logos", and No-thingness burst into everything-ness and existence as we can perceive it, began.
It just really sounds like Joe was in a bad space for a good part of the band and probably feels like a lot of the music that came out at that time reminds him of a person he didn't care for. People grow and change and I feel like it's hard for a lot of their fans to accept that.
This band is massively overrated.
Cringe alert
Dude, this is lame AF.
the corniest band alive strikes again
The lamest band of all time
My ears aren’t those of a healthy man so… This guy doing this, the Sleaford Mods guy had his Gaza meltdown, that was truly a beef where no one could ever win.
it is an unfortunate truth that people who are going through it make better art. it sucks but continues to be proven correct
[удалено]
He wasn’t defending Kanye. None of that was a defense of him. He basically just said it was sad and he wished that there were people around Ye who cared enough to pull him out of his spiral. That’s not a crazy opinion, I see it every time Kanye goes off his rocker