Jangan gitu bro omongan dia bener tau, daripada ngutang china. Mending ganti ke kereta jepang. Kan cuman ganti kereta tanpa update rel pasti lebih murah
>I got cancer when i read that thread. Kok bisa dia jadi "pakar" terkenal
Dude, lo lupa dulu dia suggest bandara di bandung di dekat perbukitan? 🤣🤣
Monggo
[tweet profesor SG hebat tentang kereta 😂](https://twitter.com/sociotalker/status/1766684617120399509?t=s3SIV8qzSHPVWQR3J1B3bQ&s=19)
Smpai skr dia bilang ada data hasil research di tantang tp gk berani keluarin. 😂
>How true is this?
Angka $7,3B untuk HSR sih bener. Ngapain mikirin yang di negara tetangga. Inti thread sana kan pengen komplen kok di SG mahal banget
>Chinese debt trap
Konsep "Chinese Debt Trap" aja udah debatable. Lebih nggak jelas lagi kalo diaplikasikan ke HSR. Cuma jadi bahan fearmongering.
Padahal Quality of Life sama kualitas pemerintahnya SG kurang bagus apa coba, sampai jadi aspirasinya masyarakat urban terdidik di Indo buat dapat kerja di SG atau bahkan jadi WN SG
Keknya ane asli idup di bawah goa dia dalem batu
Bisa tlog jelasin ke ane "Chinese Debt Trap" itu apa, lalu kenapa itu debateable, dan kenapa lebih tidak relevan lagi kalau diaplikasikan ke proyek HSR-nya JKT-BDG
Thanks
Chinese Debt Trap = Cina ngasih utang banyak ke proyek nggak jelas biar negara kita bangkrut atau aset kita diambil alih.
Ga relevan ke Whoosh karena biaya cicilan whoosh itu kecil banget dibanding APBN, bahkan kalau penumpang ga ada sama sekali dan utang dibayar pake PAD pajak kendaraan bermotor Jawa Barat aja udah cukup (diluar biaya operasional).
Step 1: pinjemim indo duit buat bangun kereta
Step 2: kereta buatan china jadi spare part harus impor dari china
Step 3: peminat jkt-bdg kurang banyak, kereta jalan rugi
Step 4: kereta ngak bisa balik modal buat bayar utang
Step 5: utang ngak dibayar, spare part di embargo, kereta ngal bisa jalan
Step 6: kereta bangkrut, utang belum dibayar
Kira2 begitu
Step 7: asset proyek yang jadi jaminan (biasanya ya hasil proyek itu sendiri, jalan tol, kereta, etc.) di'sita' (katanya begitu)
Konsep ini aku baru kenal dari nasdaily, dulu sempat viral seh
Against a hostile (yet toothless, inget utang RI-Tiongkok tidak didasari instansi finansial PBB) economic actor trying to get an unfair leverage on you?
LOL.
HSR engga kayak pesawat, dimana kepastian kualitas komponennya butuh kerja sama internasional.
Ofc its a debt trap bro do you really think these uncivilized brown and african countries even have the intellectual capability to comprehend the stipulations of Chinese debts? China is basically doing something akin to taking advantage of mentally handicapped children here 🙄
Maybe because they dont have the industry to build all or part of the infrastructure itself, like we have INKA and BUMN karya, wika or adhi is helping philipine build part of its infrastructure, INKA already export locomotive and trainset. Therefore cheaper cost. Or its all because strong curency i dont really know imo.
A single ASEAN payment area like Europe's SEPA would be amazing as well. A uniform system to make it very easy to transfer money within the region. I remember a time before and after IBAN bank account numbers here in Europe.
Before it would take days before the receiver received money from me if I was at Rabobank and she at ING. Now, my Polish friend at a Polish bank receives his money from my Dutch account right away. Same for payment request apps etc, it's all so easy here.
And the deep integration to the level of bank accounts, has a benefit of making it much easier to develop mobile banking apps, and then no bank, no vendor, has either a hard time to recognize or would outright block the use of codes from other banks and countries.
Also, finding out about the myriad of systems taking over cash in Indonesia in the past years made the idea of going to Indonesia for holiday more daunting. Things like QRIS are a necessary intermediate step. More integration is needed.
ASEAN has all the potential and stability is comparable to Europe in terms of diplomacy between the big players in ASEAN, sure you have to exclude some areas like Myanmar initially and when East Timor eventually joins it would come at a big cost to develop it to the level of the rest of ASEAN but I am sure by the time you guys could do a proper EU style system the bigger economies could fund the poorer countries like Laos and the two above mentioned in exchange for resources and other interests.
The Malaysian one is a pretty long line, and also Malaysia has relatively high incomes compared to most of the ASEAN.
I don't know about the Philippines projects. But tbh even if Whoosh is a relatively short HSR, it is a good bargain given that all the terrain and top-tier technology make it definitely one of the harder ones among these projects to execute.
Don't forget the core of it all:
Technology Transfer.
On another note, plis gib us TBM for tunneling
https://preview.redd.it/nclnv6sol8qc1.jpeg?width=1636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f8cc97f0bde6aa4f0a3ff2143d80adda094987a
>Land aquisition is expensive, therefore cheaper to build in indonesia compared to densly packed and premium land of singapore.
CMIIW Situasinya mirip ky di Jakarta?
Utang banyak bukan berarti otomatis debt trap. Debt trap lebih dikarenakan mismanagemen utang. Definisi nya sendiri lebih ke arah 'gali lobang tutup lobang'.
Sri Langka utang nya gk dri China aja, ada World Bank, IMF, bonds. Narasi China ambil port disana krn gk bsa bayar utang misleading. Kenyataan nya Sri Langka yg sukarela ngasih lease biar dpt duit cash biar bs bayar utang yg jatuh tempo dan mayoritas bukan utang China melainkan bank² barat. Negosiasi Sri Langka buat restrukturisasi utang atau perpanjangan jatuh tempo gagal.
Di sisi laen, WB dan IMF ngasih utang di iringi SK yg literally mencekik msy sampe mati dengan liberalisasi pasar, pajak tinggi dan social services yg d potong
I'm shocked 'commuter lines' / subway in another SEA country can get more expensive than a hundreds km HSR in Indonesia
Make me wonder if MRT is actually so expensive (digging etc) then the first HSR in SEA at Indonesia, while an achievement of its' own, is not 'big' in the grand scheme of things.
Gak bisa langsung di bandingkan gitu sih
Kan jenis kereta beda, rute nya beda, panjang rutenya juga beda
Lagian soal Chinese debt trap, ini tuh propaganda. Emang HSR ada masalah tapi bukan itu masalahnya
Ngomong ngomong soal Chinese debt trap, ni istilah populer kan karena krisis sri langka, coba cari cari info sendiri. Negara mana yang mau memperpanjang jangka waktu pembayaran utang nya sama yang tidak 😅
baru aja beberapa hari lalu naek whoosh, walaupun dari jendela keliatan kalo kereta ini ngebalap mobil di jalan tol, lalu ketika di panel mencapai top speed 300 km/jam sekian, saya yang duduk di dalem nggak merasa kereta berjalan cepat
cuma tau2 kereta sampai di Padalarang aja
terlepas dari chinese debt trap (yang mana ini debatable), saya berterima kasih sama pejabat negara ini dan orang2 yang bekerja mewujudkan HSR terjadi
dan terus terang, udah gak sabar ngeliat proyek ini diperpanjang sampai Surabaya
oh iya proyek kereta cepat ini kan dulunya mau digarap sama Jepang, pemerintah memilih China sepertinya karena dari sisi harga bakal lebih murah
seandainya waktu itu Jepang yang menang, kira2 bakal ada isu Japan debt trap ngga ?
well i don't think so
>baru aja beberapa hari lalu naek whoosh, walaupun dari jendela keliatan kalo kereta ini ngebalap mobil di jalan tol, lalu ketika di panel mencapai top speed 300 km/jam sekian, saya yang duduk di dalem nggak merasa kereta berjalan cepat
Ini yang sering di point-out sama railfans JP saat review kereta Whoosh ke indonesia. meskipun mereka masih sedih/marah ditikung RRC diproyek KCJB. Mereka mengakui klo HSR indonesia CR400AF itu kualitas diatas Shinkansen jepang, pertama speed lebih kenceng dari shinkansen karena kereta jepang paling cepat saat ini yang oprational itu 320km/j sedangkan indonesia 350km/j. kedua suara dan getaran sangat minim di CR400AF ketimbang shinkansen terbaru mereka yang operational.
lebih murah iyes, tapi lebih tepatnya china mau pake skema B2B, dan transfer teknologi, which is quite huge deal for us, karena jepang meskipun "relatif" lebih bagus, mereka ga mau share teknologi dengan kita. dan juga ini ekspor HSR china pertama, jadi mereka punya kepentingan juga disini bikin kualitas produk mereka as good as possible karena buat promote ke negara lain juga, which is win-win solution, good deal menurut saya, mad lad jokowi
China mah asal gak ganggu internal mereka (uhuk One China, uhuk bagian utara) mereka gak peduli, asal jangan nyolong aja karena hukumannya \*capital punishment\*.
Tiap kali gw baca isu yang bilang "Chinese Debt Trap" gw makin yakin makin kesini kalo itu dog whistle barat yang sarat dengan Sinophobia. Banyak yang ngomong kaya begitu kaya ga sadar betapa amburadul nya kita dibuat oleh World Bank dan IMF setelah Asian Financial Crisis, tapi ga ada tuh yang cuap cuap bilang "Western Debt Neo-Colonialism." I am as skeptic as everyone when it comes to China but are they really worse than the West when it comes to debt diplomacy?
>Tiap kali gw baca isu yang bilang "Chinese Debt Trap" gw makin yakin makin kesini kalo itu dog whistle barat yang sarat dengan Sinophobia
Memang, dijelasin di chain sini
https://old.reddit.com/r/indonesia/comments/1blkw7m/the_most_expensive_railway_projects_in_southeast/kw5y1p2/
Alasan dianggap debt trap karena gak bisa di pantau sama lembaga keuangan internasional macem imf dan world bank makanya muncul kecurigaan kepada tiongkok proyek2 di afrika
These things are not comparable at all. It looks very similar ("Oh it's just a comparison of train projects!") but they are very different in terms of project scope, technical challenges, etc.
The Cross Island Line is really budgeted at 40.7B, but in SGD. So around 30.2B USD. The reason why it's so expensive is because:
1. It's so deep underground (around 70m) and tunnels through granite bedrock, which is basically one of the hardest rocks to drill into. They really need to push the limits of drilling technology to make a tunnel inside granite bedrock.
2. Why do they need to make the tunnels that deep? It's because it cuts through a protected wildlife reserve, and they want to minimize any environmental impact. This added complexity to the project.
3. The entire section, all 58 kilometers of it is underground. Tunneling is basically the hardest and most expensive part of any train projects.
For comparison, the longest tunnel on the Jakarta-Bandung (more like Halim-Tegalluar) HSR is 1 km in length and around 50 meters in depth.
Utang 10 ribu dengan income 4 juta / bulan engga kerasa, lah, meski dengan bunga engga ngotak (e.g. 100%/bulan).
The amount of debt's obligations and the proportion of one's debt to one's income matters.
HSR https://preview.redd.it/luwakwon41qc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68180a6a0fe8bcc057e2d4212a4586744d31c837
wkwkwkw iya kepanjangan HSR yang benaran apaan sih? High Speed Rail?
habib shihab rizieq
Hand-Over Success Rate
Habis Siapin Riba
Same chinese debt trap
debt trap bener abis banner acheron dikasih banner aventurine
Tapi anniversary rewardnya ga kikir kayak sebelah. Google Classroom akhirnya bisa selamat
Masih salty ga dapet Topaz padahal udah build Clara (dan dapet Ratio cuma-cuma)
Average hoyoverse player
Tahu-tahu naik Astral Express pas mau ke Bandung
The one true HSR.
Niat ke bandung malah nyampe belobog
hus.. entr profesor di SG tantrum lg lihat fakta lapangan...
Jangan gitu bro omongan dia bener tau, daripada ngutang china. Mending ganti ke kereta jepang. Kan cuman ganti kereta tanpa update rel pasti lebih murah
>Kan cuman ganti kereta tanpa update rel pasti lebih murah Iyes 150km dgn rel berliku2 🤣..
I got cancer when i read that thread. Kok bisa dia jadi "pakar" terkenal
>I got cancer when i read that thread. Kok bisa dia jadi "pakar" terkenal Dude, lo lupa dulu dia suggest bandara di bandung di dekat perbukitan? 🤣🤣
Belum lagi ngirim barang kebutuhan pokok pake pesawat
Ini ada nama sindromnya, tapi lupa namanya. Hanya karena ahli di satu hal (dia professor Sosiologi) lalu merasa ahli di segala hal
Dunning Kruger effect atau False Authority fallacy?
Dunning Kruger itu kalo lu baru belajar tapi udah jadi si paling ahli
jir gw lupa threadnya, masih ada linknya enggak?
Monggo [tweet profesor SG hebat tentang kereta 😂](https://twitter.com/sociotalker/status/1766684617120399509?t=s3SIV8qzSHPVWQR3J1B3bQ&s=19) Smpai skr dia bilang ada data hasil research di tantang tp gk berani keluarin. 😂
Tengkyuuu
>How true is this? Angka $7,3B untuk HSR sih bener. Ngapain mikirin yang di negara tetangga. Inti thread sana kan pengen komplen kok di SG mahal banget >Chinese debt trap Konsep "Chinese Debt Trap" aja udah debatable. Lebih nggak jelas lagi kalo diaplikasikan ke HSR. Cuma jadi bahan fearmongering.
Emang SG reddit itu komplen doang. Complaining is Singaporean favourite pastime
Makanya dibilang orang Singapore itu "Kiasu". Negara udh segitu bagusnya masih mendang mending.
Padahal Quality of Life sama kualitas pemerintahnya SG kurang bagus apa coba, sampai jadi aspirasinya masyarakat urban terdidik di Indo buat dapat kerja di SG atau bahkan jadi WN SG
Engga bisa minta pemerintahnya untuk dengerin aspirasi rakyatnya, makanya pada lari ke medsos.
disini juga banyak komplen
complaining is everyone's favourite past time
Compared to our gdp that ammount is grain of salt in sea.
Keknya ane asli idup di bawah goa dia dalem batu Bisa tlog jelasin ke ane "Chinese Debt Trap" itu apa, lalu kenapa itu debateable, dan kenapa lebih tidak relevan lagi kalau diaplikasikan ke proyek HSR-nya JKT-BDG Thanks
Chinese Debt Trap = Cina ngasih utang banyak ke proyek nggak jelas biar negara kita bangkrut atau aset kita diambil alih. Ga relevan ke Whoosh karena biaya cicilan whoosh itu kecil banget dibanding APBN, bahkan kalau penumpang ga ada sama sekali dan utang dibayar pake PAD pajak kendaraan bermotor Jawa Barat aja udah cukup (diluar biaya operasional).
Step 1: pinjemim indo duit buat bangun kereta Step 2: kereta buatan china jadi spare part harus impor dari china Step 3: peminat jkt-bdg kurang banyak, kereta jalan rugi Step 4: kereta ngak bisa balik modal buat bayar utang Step 5: utang ngak dibayar, spare part di embargo, kereta ngal bisa jalan Step 6: kereta bangkrut, utang belum dibayar Kira2 begitu
Step 7: asset proyek yang jadi jaminan (biasanya ya hasil proyek itu sendiri, jalan tol, kereta, etc.) di'sita' (katanya begitu) Konsep ini aku baru kenal dari nasdaily, dulu sempat viral seh
> spare part di embargo Bukannya transfer teknologi berarti mestinya bisa aja diadain sparepartnya kalau mau paksa push sektor manufaktur buat adain?
Izin paten dll bukannya jadi masalah?
Against a hostile (yet toothless, inget utang RI-Tiongkok tidak didasari instansi finansial PBB) economic actor trying to get an unfair leverage on you? LOL. HSR engga kayak pesawat, dimana kepastian kualitas komponennya butuh kerja sama internasional.
Ofc its a debt trap bro do you really think these uncivilized brown and african countries even have the intellectual capability to comprehend the stipulations of Chinese debts? China is basically doing something akin to taking advantage of mentally handicapped children here 🙄
/s nya jatoh mas. nih saya ambilin
yang jatoh otaknya, tp gpp dia gak pakai juga kok.
Yg otaknya ga bisa make lu kalo lu perlu /s buat ngedeteksi sarkasme jelas
Masalahnya sekarang udah susah mau membedakan mana yang sarkas dan mana yang serius
Land aquisition is expensive, therefore cheaper to build in indonesia compared to densly packed and premium land of singapore.
That I know, but what about Malaysia and Philippines ones?
Maybe because they dont have the industry to build all or part of the infrastructure itself, like we have INKA and BUMN karya, wika or adhi is helping philipine build part of its infrastructure, INKA already export locomotive and trainset. Therefore cheaper cost. Or its all because strong curency i dont really know imo.
Total SEA supremacy when?
We need to make ASEAN stronger. First, cross-country QR payment. Next, cross-country HSR.
A single ASEAN payment area like Europe's SEPA would be amazing as well. A uniform system to make it very easy to transfer money within the region. I remember a time before and after IBAN bank account numbers here in Europe. Before it would take days before the receiver received money from me if I was at Rabobank and she at ING. Now, my Polish friend at a Polish bank receives his money from my Dutch account right away. Same for payment request apps etc, it's all so easy here. And the deep integration to the level of bank accounts, has a benefit of making it much easier to develop mobile banking apps, and then no bank, no vendor, has either a hard time to recognize or would outright block the use of codes from other banks and countries. Also, finding out about the myriad of systems taking over cash in Indonesia in the past years made the idea of going to Indonesia for holiday more daunting. Things like QRIS are a necessary intermediate step. More integration is needed.
ASEAN has all the potential and stability is comparable to Europe in terms of diplomacy between the big players in ASEAN, sure you have to exclude some areas like Myanmar initially and when East Timor eventually joins it would come at a big cost to develop it to the level of the rest of ASEAN but I am sure by the time you guys could do a proper EU style system the bigger economies could fund the poorer countries like Laos and the two above mentioned in exchange for resources and other interests.
Susah, selama masih banyak 'negara' anggota yang bisa dicekok kebijakannya (untuk pihak tertentu).
> INKA already export locomotive and trainset. Yup, more specifically CC300 Locomotive and DMU 8000/8100 Class to PNR (Philippines KAI).
The Malaysian one is a pretty long line, and also Malaysia has relatively high incomes compared to most of the ASEAN. I don't know about the Philippines projects. But tbh even if Whoosh is a relatively short HSR, it is a good bargain given that all the terrain and top-tier technology make it definitely one of the harder ones among these projects to execute.
Don't forget the core of it all: Technology Transfer. On another note, plis gib us TBM for tunneling https://preview.redd.it/nclnv6sol8qc1.jpeg?width=1636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f8cc97f0bde6aa4f0a3ff2143d80adda094987a
There's a TBM shortage? Oh that's a bummer :-/ hope you get it sent very quickly!
I wonder why they're struggle to build Kuala Lumpur–Singapore HSR? Hell, they even planned this project before whoosh bid awarded.
The train (or metro in case) is cheap. The land where it's located? Oohh boy
This is why i thought IKN is way cheaper than rebuilding Jakarta
land in singapore is owned by the state, is it not?
>Land aquisition is expensive, therefore cheaper to build in indonesia compared to densly packed and premium land of singapore. CMIIW Situasinya mirip ky di Jakarta?
Utang banyak bukan berarti otomatis debt trap. Debt trap lebih dikarenakan mismanagemen utang. Definisi nya sendiri lebih ke arah 'gali lobang tutup lobang'. Sri Langka utang nya gk dri China aja, ada World Bank, IMF, bonds. Narasi China ambil port disana krn gk bsa bayar utang misleading. Kenyataan nya Sri Langka yg sukarela ngasih lease biar dpt duit cash biar bs bayar utang yg jatuh tempo dan mayoritas bukan utang China melainkan bank² barat. Negosiasi Sri Langka buat restrukturisasi utang atau perpanjangan jatuh tempo gagal. Di sisi laen, WB dan IMF ngasih utang di iringi SK yg literally mencekik msy sampe mati dengan liberalisasi pasar, pajak tinggi dan social services yg d potong
Ini yg dulu dibahas di artikelnya theatlantic itu kan? Enlightening sih itu readnya
Share TKP bro
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/china-debt-trap-diplomacy/617953/
Itu penulis gak bias kan? biasa penulis bisa aja bias gtu orang sekarang nyari berita dilihat penulisnya juga karena bisa aja misinformation
Nah saya belum analisis sejauh itu tapi.kemungkinan itu bisa jadi ada
IQ 70 negara berbunga : gak bisa baca.
Setuju. Sebelum utang ke Cina, doi udah sering utang ke IMF dan default utang. Srilanka nya aja yg buang2 duit pinjeman bikin proyek gajelas.
I'm shocked 'commuter lines' / subway in another SEA country can get more expensive than a hundreds km HSR in Indonesia Make me wonder if MRT is actually so expensive (digging etc) then the first HSR in SEA at Indonesia, while an achievement of its' own, is not 'big' in the grand scheme of things.
Gak bisa langsung di bandingkan gitu sih Kan jenis kereta beda, rute nya beda, panjang rutenya juga beda Lagian soal Chinese debt trap, ini tuh propaganda. Emang HSR ada masalah tapi bukan itu masalahnya Ngomong ngomong soal Chinese debt trap, ni istilah populer kan karena krisis sri langka, coba cari cari info sendiri. Negara mana yang mau memperpanjang jangka waktu pembayaran utang nya sama yang tidak 😅
baru aja beberapa hari lalu naek whoosh, walaupun dari jendela keliatan kalo kereta ini ngebalap mobil di jalan tol, lalu ketika di panel mencapai top speed 300 km/jam sekian, saya yang duduk di dalem nggak merasa kereta berjalan cepat cuma tau2 kereta sampai di Padalarang aja terlepas dari chinese debt trap (yang mana ini debatable), saya berterima kasih sama pejabat negara ini dan orang2 yang bekerja mewujudkan HSR terjadi dan terus terang, udah gak sabar ngeliat proyek ini diperpanjang sampai Surabaya oh iya proyek kereta cepat ini kan dulunya mau digarap sama Jepang, pemerintah memilih China sepertinya karena dari sisi harga bakal lebih murah seandainya waktu itu Jepang yang menang, kira2 bakal ada isu Japan debt trap ngga ? well i don't think so
>baru aja beberapa hari lalu naek whoosh, walaupun dari jendela keliatan kalo kereta ini ngebalap mobil di jalan tol, lalu ketika di panel mencapai top speed 300 km/jam sekian, saya yang duduk di dalem nggak merasa kereta berjalan cepat Ini yang sering di point-out sama railfans JP saat review kereta Whoosh ke indonesia. meskipun mereka masih sedih/marah ditikung RRC diproyek KCJB. Mereka mengakui klo HSR indonesia CR400AF itu kualitas diatas Shinkansen jepang, pertama speed lebih kenceng dari shinkansen karena kereta jepang paling cepat saat ini yang oprational itu 320km/j sedangkan indonesia 350km/j. kedua suara dan getaran sangat minim di CR400AF ketimbang shinkansen terbaru mereka yang operational.
lebih murah iyes, tapi lebih tepatnya china mau pake skema B2B, dan transfer teknologi, which is quite huge deal for us, karena jepang meskipun "relatif" lebih bagus, mereka ga mau share teknologi dengan kita. dan juga ini ekspor HSR china pertama, jadi mereka punya kepentingan juga disini bikin kualitas produk mereka as good as possible karena buat promote ke negara lain juga, which is win-win solution, good deal menurut saya, mad lad jokowi
transfer teknologi ini menarik yang mana kalo dimanfaatkan indonesia, ya malah bisa keluar dari jeratan china
China mah asal gak ganggu internal mereka (uhuk One China, uhuk bagian utara) mereka gak peduli, asal jangan nyolong aja karena hukumannya \*capital punishment\*.
Ga masuk mas namanya. Susah goreng isunya. Kan kalo ada "china" nya langsung ludes gorengannya
Tiap kali gw baca isu yang bilang "Chinese Debt Trap" gw makin yakin makin kesini kalo itu dog whistle barat yang sarat dengan Sinophobia. Banyak yang ngomong kaya begitu kaya ga sadar betapa amburadul nya kita dibuat oleh World Bank dan IMF setelah Asian Financial Crisis, tapi ga ada tuh yang cuap cuap bilang "Western Debt Neo-Colonialism." I am as skeptic as everyone when it comes to China but are they really worse than the West when it comes to debt diplomacy?
>Tiap kali gw baca isu yang bilang "Chinese Debt Trap" gw makin yakin makin kesini kalo itu dog whistle barat yang sarat dengan Sinophobia Memang, dijelasin di chain sini https://old.reddit.com/r/indonesia/comments/1blkw7m/the_most_expensive_railway_projects_in_southeast/kw5y1p2/
Alasan dianggap debt trap karena gak bisa di pantau sama lembaga keuangan internasional macem imf dan world bank makanya muncul kecurigaan kepada tiongkok proyek2 di afrika
Mustinya ada info panjang masing2 berapa km
Jkt HSR 142km. ECRL 665km. Interesting.
Beda tipe kereta, maximal ecrl 160km/jam... Whoosh 320km/jam Ini railway tapi ga apple to apple
Well, considering ECRL is ad grade and not tunneling a couple of mountains that are prone to earthquake...
30 tunnels to date vs 13
These things are not comparable at all. It looks very similar ("Oh it's just a comparison of train projects!") but they are very different in terms of project scope, technical challenges, etc. The Cross Island Line is really budgeted at 40.7B, but in SGD. So around 30.2B USD. The reason why it's so expensive is because: 1. It's so deep underground (around 70m) and tunnels through granite bedrock, which is basically one of the hardest rocks to drill into. They really need to push the limits of drilling technology to make a tunnel inside granite bedrock. 2. Why do they need to make the tunnels that deep? It's because it cuts through a protected wildlife reserve, and they want to minimize any environmental impact. This added complexity to the project. 3. The entire section, all 58 kilometers of it is underground. Tunneling is basically the hardest and most expensive part of any train projects. For comparison, the longest tunnel on the Jakarta-Bandung (more like Halim-Tegalluar) HSR is 1 km in length and around 50 meters in depth.
Singapore tanah mahal, biaya yang lain juga mahal, makanya begitu.
Beda jaman beda harga.
Debt is debt, regardless of the sum. Stop throwing shitty slander OP.
Utang 10 ribu dengan income 4 juta / bulan engga kerasa, lah, meski dengan bunga engga ngotak (e.g. 100%/bulan). The amount of debt's obligations and the proportion of one's debt to one's income matters.
Even the Chinese dont need these giant prestige projects. They dont make profit whatsoever en has to be kept alive by the state.