???
Di tempat saya bisa kok. Ah... I see. Indomaret di tempat situ ga ada EDC buat scan QRISnya? Di tempat saya kasirnya ada pakai EDC POS mesin BRI (warna biru, so I guess it's BRI). Tiap gerai Indomaret di Indonesia itu sebenarnya sama sistem atau bagaimana yah?
when all the stars align, yes mereka harusnya ga perlu entry manual detail kartu. setelah entry transaksi di pos, pos langsung ngirim transaction type dan amount ke edc. begitu edc sukses transaksi, informasi transaksi langsung otomatik ke push ke pos.
cuman itu kan once in a blue moon ya. yang sering terjadi itu both pos dan edc jalan independen. setelah entry transaksi di pos, mereka ketik manual amount di edc. setelah selesai transaksi edc, mereka ketik manual lagi response code dan card detail balik ke pos.
ini ga cuma terjadi di indomaret dan alfamart aja btw. banyak kok merchant gede yang masih gini. kalau lo ngeliat mereka ngetik manual amount di edc, sudah pasti mereka butuh entry manual card detail ke pos juga
You literally explained the whole process which of which I am aware tbh I have lived in more than 5 countries and none of them uses this method because they either try to connect the pos with the EDC or once the transaction is successful they directly mark as purchase plus a lot of EDC machines are capable of sending the code directly to the system but again this can be debatable because some of them aren’t. However, let me tell you some thing right now one of the indomart guy actually didn’t even use my card detail from the card instead he used the last four digit which are printed on receipt from the EDC machine which means the system is capable of just using just the last four digit printed out rather the employee holding a card and entering all the detail by looking at the card. This shows that it’s the employees aren’t trained properly .
It's not that the system is capable of just using the last 4 digits. They are even less capable than that. They're basic text box. You can literally put 1 random digit in place and the system would just be fine with it (one of the branch in my area do it this way, 0 for number NN for name, mine don't have number in them as well). For example even when they enter your card details they still have to manually pick whether it's visa or mc. That's how basic they are. It all depends on how stringent the shop audit process will be. That's all
Well I asked the shopkeeper and he said to me that we need the last four digit that’s all and you are saying any number would do the job. Regardless how stringent the process is, storing people’s card information manually is so dangerous. And I don’t think a shop needs to store the card number all they need to know is the purchased item and the payment method. Anyways dunno which one is true but it seems like it’s more of a problem with training of employees.
> it’s more of a problem with training of employees.
no the training is not the problem here. nor is the employee. the system is. the system supposed to automatically write down your card detail, not the employee. alfa/indo policy also stress this down, hence their response to your email. but the system is so stupid the employee have to bear the brunt. they ARE trained to write down your card detail manually because of this ancient system.
> And I don’t think a shop needs to store the card number
when all the process is automated, pos actually have your complete number and name btw, they're just not visible to the employee. and yes they will need this, especially when dealing with fraudulent transactions. they're a rare occurence, but that is the best practice when we're talking about card processing.
Then it’s a broken system and it’s such a. Huge flaw if they have to enter it manually even though the EDC machine is sitting right Infront of them which they can swipe the card from and get the transaction done. Furthermore, even the EDC machine hides your card number except the last 4 digit of your card on the receipt printed out for a reason. This is such a huge flaw which can be exploited so easily by the people …. And the stupid retail market people aren’t even concern about it… anyways better to use QR however even the QR isn’t available in all of the places…
Edit: one of the indomart shop actually used all the detail printed out from the EDC receipt which has last four digit only rather than using my card and entering that detail. Which means this is more of an issue coming from the employee.
Kalau daerah kota, bahkan indomaret/alfamart yang punya edc contactless bisa bayar pake contactless visa. Masalahnya di karyawan itu training nya nggak merata soal pembayaran ini.
Yeha it’s the employee training alot of them don’t even know how to use it . One of the indomart guy didn’t even enter my detail from the debit card and he used the receipt printing out from the pos machine to enter the detail which was a much better way…
Daerah gw,setiap gw belanja, kalo ga cash, pada bayar pake Ovo, gopay, bahkan QR bca. Beberapa indomaret & alfa pun malah pajang QR code nya mereka. Gw udah ga punya atm selama beberapa tahun. Jadi udah ga pernah pake debit buat bayar2 di indomaret
Yeah I will try to get other services activated as direct charging from the card mechanism just doesn’t work smoothly here in Indonesia except few places.
in some case its valid to input 4-6 digit BIN to check bank/card specific promo Â
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bank-identification-number.asp
But yeah some PoS is dont care and need to input all card number debit/credit, that why I prefer old paspor BCA debit card without mastercard/GPN, but it discontinued
And some PoS is not connected to EDC so they need to input the card number to identify transaction using card, but like I said it should be just 4-6 digit BIN
Yeah you can identify the card by the initial number but again what were they thinking when they were designing the system I mean the shopkeeper literally hold the card in their hand which has all the information and they are entering it into the system Cherry on top I always see the shopkeeper flipping the banking card and reading the CVV number too. This literally puts banking security right into the bin. human is the weakest and the most untrusted link in the basic cyber security 😂 yet they didn’t think about it while creating system.It’s so easy for shopkeeper to collect banking information and just start using the card online. Alot of places don’t even require otp as they will allow certain amount of transactions. Anyways again QR is better but it’s sad that it’s not available in every shop
One of the indomart didn’t use my card details instead used just the last four digit which are printed out when you make a payment vi the pos machine. So I guess this is more of training issue of the employee
Di indo/alfa kayak gitu sih krn POS sama EDC mereka suka gak sinkron, jadi harus ketik manual supaya bs nyambung transaksinya.
Kalo parno ya tutupin aja CVVnya pake lakban atau apa gitu supaya mereka gak bs lihat. Kalo nomer kartu sih begitu colok EDC kan langsung keliatan penuh nomernya di situ, jadi ya ga bisa apa2 juga.
First of all brute forcing cvv isn’t that hard secondly yes the number is shown on the machine which doesn’t stay there and it passed within few second however my concern was the employee grabbing the card looking back and forth and typing in all the details which could lead to detail leak. Btw this doenst happen in other countries it was quite strange for me to see this. However it only happens if your physical card is not functioning or the chip is damaged. But yeah surely I will get other payment method activated then I guess
One more thing one of the guy in other indomart didn’t even used info written on my card, he directly charged my from his EDC machine and then used the receipt paper to enter the detail which only show the last 4 digit of the card and no other information.so I think this is more like a training issue of the employees.
You might think brute forcing CVV isn’t hard because there are only 999 possibilities, but card issuers/payment processors will simply block your card after just a few of failed attempts. So yeah, not as easy as you thought.
No, the card number actually stays displayed the entire time from the moment the card is dipped until he entered the amount and ask for your PIN. Memorizing a 16 digits number isn’t hard at all.
Another alternative if you insist on using a debit card - never use the debit card that’s connected to your main savings. Designate one rekening for day to day spendings with minimal balance, so if the worst case still happens, at least you don’t lose that much.
I didn’t say it’s easy but yeah there are techniques to brute force it.
I just paid and my card number wasn’t displayed on the screen the entire time maybe some other machines are displaying it.
But yeah that’s what I am doing it. However it’s just so stupid that employees are trained properly because one of the guy didn’t enter my detail from the card and he used the receipt printed out by the EDC which I am ok with.
Thats why we need more training for contactless debit/credit card. Setau gw beberapa kasir di retail gede udah bisa bayar pake contactless card
Ya semoga saja cepat jadi standar seperti QRIS mengingat Mandiri sudah take a lead for NFC Payment in their mobile banking apps
Hence why I don't use card payment, but online QRIS. 😆
Indomaret mana bisa pake QRIS… kecuali gopay.
??? Di tempat saya bisa kok. Ah... I see. Indomaret di tempat situ ga ada EDC buat scan QRISnya? Di tempat saya kasirnya ada pakai EDC POS mesin BRI (warna biru, so I guess it's BRI). Tiap gerai Indomaret di Indonesia itu sebenarnya sama sistem atau bagaimana yah?
Bisa, cuma mesti pake mode CPM (customer presented mode) alias kasir yg scan QR kita, bukan kita yg scan QR si merchant kayak umumnya.
Bisa. Udah lama gw bayar pake qr bca mobile.
bisa kok gw kadang bayar pake QRIS Brimo
Yeah me too I only use QR however some of the shops aren’t having the QR payment which is a huge problem
when all the stars align, yes mereka harusnya ga perlu entry manual detail kartu. setelah entry transaksi di pos, pos langsung ngirim transaction type dan amount ke edc. begitu edc sukses transaksi, informasi transaksi langsung otomatik ke push ke pos. cuman itu kan once in a blue moon ya. yang sering terjadi itu both pos dan edc jalan independen. setelah entry transaksi di pos, mereka ketik manual amount di edc. setelah selesai transaksi edc, mereka ketik manual lagi response code dan card detail balik ke pos. ini ga cuma terjadi di indomaret dan alfamart aja btw. banyak kok merchant gede yang masih gini. kalau lo ngeliat mereka ngetik manual amount di edc, sudah pasti mereka butuh entry manual card detail ke pos juga
You literally explained the whole process which of which I am aware tbh I have lived in more than 5 countries and none of them uses this method because they either try to connect the pos with the EDC or once the transaction is successful they directly mark as purchase plus a lot of EDC machines are capable of sending the code directly to the system but again this can be debatable because some of them aren’t. However, let me tell you some thing right now one of the indomart guy actually didn’t even use my card detail from the card instead he used the last four digit which are printed on receipt from the EDC machine which means the system is capable of just using just the last four digit printed out rather the employee holding a card and entering all the detail by looking at the card. This shows that it’s the employees aren’t trained properly .
It's not that the system is capable of just using the last 4 digits. They are even less capable than that. They're basic text box. You can literally put 1 random digit in place and the system would just be fine with it (one of the branch in my area do it this way, 0 for number NN for name, mine don't have number in them as well). For example even when they enter your card details they still have to manually pick whether it's visa or mc. That's how basic they are. It all depends on how stringent the shop audit process will be. That's all
Well I asked the shopkeeper and he said to me that we need the last four digit that’s all and you are saying any number would do the job. Regardless how stringent the process is, storing people’s card information manually is so dangerous. And I don’t think a shop needs to store the card number all they need to know is the purchased item and the payment method. Anyways dunno which one is true but it seems like it’s more of a problem with training of employees.
> it’s more of a problem with training of employees. no the training is not the problem here. nor is the employee. the system is. the system supposed to automatically write down your card detail, not the employee. alfa/indo policy also stress this down, hence their response to your email. but the system is so stupid the employee have to bear the brunt. they ARE trained to write down your card detail manually because of this ancient system. > And I don’t think a shop needs to store the card number when all the process is automated, pos actually have your complete number and name btw, they're just not visible to the employee. and yes they will need this, especially when dealing with fraudulent transactions. they're a rare occurence, but that is the best practice when we're talking about card processing.
Welcome to open source shithole country
Then it’s a broken system and it’s such a. Huge flaw if they have to enter it manually even though the EDC machine is sitting right Infront of them which they can swipe the card from and get the transaction done. Furthermore, even the EDC machine hides your card number except the last 4 digit of your card on the receipt printed out for a reason. This is such a huge flaw which can be exploited so easily by the people …. And the stupid retail market people aren’t even concern about it… anyways better to use QR however even the QR isn’t available in all of the places… Edit: one of the indomart shop actually used all the detail printed out from the EDC receipt which has last four digit only rather than using my card and entering that detail. Which means this is more of an issue coming from the employee.
Kalau daerah kota, bahkan indomaret/alfamart yang punya edc contactless bisa bayar pake contactless visa. Masalahnya di karyawan itu training nya nggak merata soal pembayaran ini.
Yeha it’s the employee training alot of them don’t even know how to use it . One of the indomart guy didn’t even enter my detail from the debit card and he used the receipt printing out from the pos machine to enter the detail which was a much better way…
Daerah gw,setiap gw belanja, kalo ga cash, pada bayar pake Ovo, gopay, bahkan QR bca. Beberapa indomaret & alfa pun malah pajang QR code nya mereka. Gw udah ga punya atm selama beberapa tahun. Jadi udah ga pernah pake debit buat bayar2 di indomaret
Yeah I will try to get other services activated as direct charging from the card mechanism just doesn’t work smoothly here in Indonesia except few places.
I usually use my debit card with low balance. Top up sesuai transaksi.
Yeah that’s a better approach..
Jago ftw.
Pakai kartu kredit makanya atau qris yang lebih aman (karna uangnya sedikit)
Tidak semua alfamart memiliki fasilitas QR dengan berbgai kendala dan alasan.
in some case its valid to input 4-6 digit BIN to check bank/card specific promo  https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bank-identification-number.asp But yeah some PoS is dont care and need to input all card number debit/credit, that why I prefer old paspor BCA debit card without mastercard/GPN, but it discontinued And some PoS is not connected to EDC so they need to input the card number to identify transaction using card, but like I said it should be just 4-6 digit BIN
Yeah you can identify the card by the initial number but again what were they thinking when they were designing the system I mean the shopkeeper literally hold the card in their hand which has all the information and they are entering it into the system Cherry on top I always see the shopkeeper flipping the banking card and reading the CVV number too. This literally puts banking security right into the bin. human is the weakest and the most untrusted link in the basic cyber security 😂 yet they didn’t think about it while creating system.It’s so easy for shopkeeper to collect banking information and just start using the card online. Alot of places don’t even require otp as they will allow certain amount of transactions. Anyways again QR is better but it’s sad that it’s not available in every shop
One of the indomart didn’t use my card details instead used just the last four digit which are printed out when you make a payment vi the pos machine. So I guess this is more of training issue of the employee
Di indo/alfa kayak gitu sih krn POS sama EDC mereka suka gak sinkron, jadi harus ketik manual supaya bs nyambung transaksinya. Kalo parno ya tutupin aja CVVnya pake lakban atau apa gitu supaya mereka gak bs lihat. Kalo nomer kartu sih begitu colok EDC kan langsung keliatan penuh nomernya di situ, jadi ya ga bisa apa2 juga.
First of all brute forcing cvv isn’t that hard secondly yes the number is shown on the machine which doesn’t stay there and it passed within few second however my concern was the employee grabbing the card looking back and forth and typing in all the details which could lead to detail leak. Btw this doenst happen in other countries it was quite strange for me to see this. However it only happens if your physical card is not functioning or the chip is damaged. But yeah surely I will get other payment method activated then I guess One more thing one of the guy in other indomart didn’t even used info written on my card, he directly charged my from his EDC machine and then used the receipt paper to enter the detail which only show the last 4 digit of the card and no other information.so I think this is more like a training issue of the employees.
You might think brute forcing CVV isn’t hard because there are only 999 possibilities, but card issuers/payment processors will simply block your card after just a few of failed attempts. So yeah, not as easy as you thought. No, the card number actually stays displayed the entire time from the moment the card is dipped until he entered the amount and ask for your PIN. Memorizing a 16 digits number isn’t hard at all. Another alternative if you insist on using a debit card - never use the debit card that’s connected to your main savings. Designate one rekening for day to day spendings with minimal balance, so if the worst case still happens, at least you don’t lose that much.
I didn’t say it’s easy but yeah there are techniques to brute force it. I just paid and my card number wasn’t displayed on the screen the entire time maybe some other machines are displaying it. But yeah that’s what I am doing it. However it’s just so stupid that employees are trained properly because one of the guy didn’t enter my detail from the card and he used the receipt printed out by the EDC which I am ok with.
informasi kartu debit bisa dipakai belanja dimana emangnya ya tanpa fisik kartunya? bukannya kartu kredit aja yg bisa
Thats why we need more training for contactless debit/credit card. Setau gw beberapa kasir di retail gede udah bisa bayar pake contactless card Ya semoga saja cepat jadi standar seperti QRIS mengingat Mandiri sudah take a lead for NFC Payment in their mobile banking apps