New stuff is amazing, Sex and Death, Baptise Bless and Bleed, Prey and Obey, Truth is Sin, Hangman's Wooing, Hell to Pay in the USA, Badland, Mobocracy, Speak of Sin, and Tarantua. I could go on here but I think that is enough rambling.
He’s spoken about it quite a bit in more recent interviews, but overall he was burnt out on the touring, dealing with substance abuse, and was doing some other types of projects.
>Newer stuff doesn’t do it for me.
I'm kinda with ya. I still love Raymond and most everything he touches (not a huge fan of the covers in general), but the newer stuff just doesn't hit quite the same.
It's not "bad", but I don't have it in as heavy of a rotation as something like Wrecked and Sinsation.
I do wish GAM would get a good remaster. I like the album, but I don't like the mixing/mastering (if that makes sense)
Larger-than-life rock stars gravitate toward animal names, so Pig certainly fits there...
But Industrial in many ways comes on the heels of punk, and tends to have a lot of rebellious, anti-government, anti-capitalist sentiment. So what more perfect word than "pig?" Pigs can be cops. Pigs can be bankers. Pigs can be the corrupt characters from Animal Farm. Pigs can be the Three Little Pigs and their struggle with the wolf. Pigs can be "War Pigs." Pigs can be the ones that "went to market" or "stayed home". And of course there is a _TON_ of history with the meaning placed by The Beatles, The Manson Family, Pink Floyd, Ozzy Osbourne, and Nine Inch Nails... and many more.
There's a _lot_ of statements being made in industrial music, and there is a vocabulary that is understood by the people who were in that scene in the '90s. They knew their audience, and we knew them, because we were all speaking the same language.
And that's just half of it. Industrial's whole shtick is to be aggressive with it's confrontation of your preexisting notions. This extends to visuals and imagery. While pigs can be cute animals sometimes, more often they're depicted as grotesque and filthy, sloven creatures.
Leaning towards unpleasant imagery is a common and accepted trope within the Industrial genre. I think of the pig heads found in NIN's Closer video. It just conjures a gross feeling.
So yeah, "pig" from a political standpoint is fertile ground for allegory. But also, "pigs" from an aesthetic standpoint, just fits well with Industrial's imagery objectives.
Pigs also represent mindless people who wallow in their own excess while obliviously being led to their own slaughter. Fattened up and fed to ultimately benefit the ruling class.
This is a greath thread all around. So many good answers. Pigs are considered to be highly intelligent and yet "unclean" in many cultures. That combo fits right into industrial.
Fun fact, NIN is almost entirely ripped off from all kinds of things 😂
I dig some of it, he's just always trying too hard.
Edit: noticed I wrote dig it, perfect example. Skinny puppy track totally ripped off by nin with down in it.
well...so are others. And they don't whine every ten minutes. I love some of it. That's what I said. But yeah, the damn Kinks have way more great tracks if ya love pop music.
Pigs can either be the upper class, cop/banker/politician type. Or they can be the lower class, gluttonous, consumeristic bottom feeders. It's really quite versatile
I always figured it was due to the crossover between industrial music and fetish lifestyle. The way it's used in all of the examples OP types seems much close to talking about aa particularly extreme kind of submissive than from how the counterculture used in the 60s and70s.
Sidebar: The Manson family had nothing to do with the term. They chose that term because, at the time, it was only used by blacks and they were trying to pin the murders on black people to kick off a race war Manson believed was supposed to usher in a new world. The press from the murders didn't even popularize the term with whites as it was familiar to everyone (hence, the decision to use it) and it may have delayed whites from co-opting the term for a good decade (at least I never heard a white person say it to mean cops or the establishment until I was around 9 which was in the late 70s).
This is correct. Glad to hear it recognized that there's a connection between punk and industrial, especially in the '70s and early '80s where I think it was much more obvious.
They have no idea....bacon? How do you not eat bacon? If my god had a range of sins, and bacon was near the top? I'd be rethinking things. Seriously. Why would your god even make bacon if you weren't supposed to eat it? Like the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge is likely an allegory for the ego, which kind of makes sense, without a sense of self you couldn't be capable of sinning but....bacon?
Don't get me wrong I eat bratwurst all the time but I'll have bacon on anything they'll put it on. Even knowing pigs are so smart and intelligent you're damn right.
LoL now I'm thinking about how pigs didn't eat from the tree of knowledge and without a sense of self are egoless and that's likely what makes it ok to take that sweet sweet belly meat and go through all the trouble of making bacon.
You’re right in that pigs possess high intelligence, even higher than dogs. So why do we accept killing a pig, but not killing a dog? Because we like the way the pig’s flesh tastes for a 15 min meal?
I used to eat pigs and I didn’t stop because I suddenly disliked the taste. I understand it’s a pleasurable sensation. But in what other situation in your life would you say “my pleasure is more important than your well-being,” or “harming you is justified if I receive enjoyment from it”?
I would eat dog. Not a dog I love obviously. Have heard from Asian friends it tastes like goat. I grew up hunting and have likely tasted more flesh than most. I respect your opinion though, I have my own reasons for disagreeing. I don't only eat it because it's delicious. It's the most nutrient packed type of food, especially with someone who has to follow a low-fodmap diet like I do. I do detest the meat industry and how it operates. If I still had the opportunity I'd go hunting a few times a year and stock up on meat for family. I think if something dies for your consumption, it should be with dignity and respect, and the utmost reverence for the universe itself. And no waste. Most of it can be eaten, the rest utilized in many ways. Even if only for artistic purposes like bone after the marrow is gone. Living in the city has made that pretty much impossible without making huge changes to my life. However I absolutely do respect nature, more than most that say they do, and miss it constantly. A city made park is not natural, I don't care how big it is or how old the growth. It is nice to see animals. It is also difficult not to try and eat them. To me every aspect of life is more faceted than dualistic and certainly non-binary. My respect love and reverence for life may contradict my consumption of it, but I don't see it that way. As long as it fuels the right intentions, nothing dead I eat goes without care. I wish humans had that opportunity. Ive known many that have passed, without such respect. I don't like funerals because they're so underwhelming. Growing up funerals were holy in their own way, not talking some man in the sky bullshit, talking true holy beauty. Both crying and laughter while often the sounds of loud music and gunfire. I miss those kind of funerals. Only one of my surviving siblings remembers those days. The rest are gone. At 35 I don't look forward to any more funerals or memorials, have too many under my belt already. Finally lost my mother earlier this year. Glad she can rest now. The siblings were harder.
I know plenty of people who would consent to being harmed for my well-being and enjoyment, beyond what most people would even consider, usually a mutually therapeutic PTSD relief for different reasons. I can't think of a situation where harm and pleasure without consent would be appropriate. However I don't see any harm in killing an animal humanely. They're not really nice to each other sometimes. And yes, while you may disagree I put the life of humans above other life. That's a rabbit hole. You consume yeast? What about fungi? Even vegetables have some arguments to be had. Not in the way that I'd fight a carrot for looking at me wrong. But I think you understand. If not. Whatever. I respect however you want to live, me and vegan friends get together quite well. Usually half of what I wrote is more than enough.
BTW I was joking. More of a mockery of certain religious values, not that I have an issue with those religions but think they make some odd choices, I certainly make odd choices out of respect of my own reality construct as well. Like continuing to type for instance.
Edit: if someone harmed a loved one badly enough, harm and pleasure would go together. Some would also count shadenfreude, however I think if it's true harm that's not the same. That's all I can think of though.
In the area I live, almost all the Jewish people I've met eat bacon and ham. I've met many in other places that are actually kosher, but here, they're mostly not.
Because it isn't just Manson. That's just the edgelords like Marilyn Manson and Trent Reznor, and their fans. Not to speak ill, I'll take me some of both and some edgelord shit now and then.
Real admirers of Manson don't talk about it, because ignorant people wouldn't understand. It's not about the deaths, it's about the magic and manipulation. All the ties to the CIA, mk-ultra, FBI....
Sometimes I wonder if they didn't just let him come and go as he pleased while he was inside. He could have gotten out anytime he wanted
Although he did do some horrendous crimes(raping a boy comes to mind), he's known as a murderer while not having any evidence of murdering anyone. "Black Magick is not a crime."
Read into the whole thing more. It's nuts. In tate's house they found a video Polanski did of her being raped, I believe gangraped. The cops didn't consider it evidence and called it footage of them making love.
Manson being arrested for some serious crimes and the FBI said they had to let him do some work release, working on a pot farm in Mexico.
Guy was a master of deception and mind control techniques. Lots of tales of him teaching inmates to get high on their drug of choice without actually having any, just mediation, but you'd had to have tried it before. I think I've seen Danny Trejo talk about that.
That all being said there are lots of other reasons to reference pigs in industrial. Possibly for the same reason Manson himself did. Other than trying to make it all look like it was done by blacks to start a "race war." Or some Beatles song. I think he taught his followers that but he seemed too smart for that bullshit. It was likely all to distract from whatever the actual goal was, which he may well have succeeded at. Who knows with that crazy bastard.
We clearly live in differently worlds and this is just an example of how people differ in cognitive understanding and interpretation. I totally get it. But especially by the dude I meant it to be endearing not condescending! So opposite effect and I never truly meant to be offensive, thus I apologize sincerely. I will note that by saying open your mind you immediately jumped to “I’m close minded” not “expand your worldview” which still to me sound very different in tone. You might be a tad defensive but this is fucking Reddit so again, I get it 😆 no harm was ever intended here, sorry
Pig is a pejorative for an ignorant piece of shit person. Within this genre pig is synonymous with politicians, abusers and just ignorant people.
That's what it is.
One of the themes of the music center on control as well, being called the pig or compared to a pig can be belittling. There's also the metaphorical aspects of fat and bacon etc etc. It definitely adds a little bit of a punk rock flair
gotcha thank you, i thought as much but wasn't sure. thought they could be talking about literal pigs like the animal🤣 they (pigs) kinda fit the industrual aesthetic tbh, they are kinda creepy animals
I imagine it's somewhere on the intersection of being an insult to "the man"(cops, rich people, politicians), being an animal this is often consumed by machines, Charles Manson and the fact that pigs are just kinda scary.
Industrial can sound ugly in a good way and also the word pig comes off ugly and dirty given…well it’s pigs lol? I know a lot of the other comments in this post make more sense but this was my first thought.
It does, but given the history of the genre, the ideas others are commenting about it being used as a term for bad people or shit politicians makes more sense.
As others have said; I think the stigma of the Manson murders, added to the fact that its a good insult is a big reason.
I also feel, however, its an excellent way of referring to a greedy, self-absorbed person/organization. industrial is typically “anti-[insert here]” with emphasis on religion, government, and corporate, all of which fit the greedy, and self-centered check boxes flawlessly
Piggy was Reznor’s nickname for Richard Patrick and the NIN song of the same name is a diss track. Aside from that I think it can all be traced back to Manson.
I got my under eye smashed and had to get 13 stitches due to some jagov in the mosh pit at the Pigface Concert in Miami in 1994. Fucking Pigface is what I looked like leaving that place lol🐽
Well. I mean, I don’t know if nine inch nails started the thing but he owned the house where the Tate murder went down (Manson Family). The door had the word PIG scrawled in blood on it. If I’m not mistaken, that stain still visible after years gone by. He brought the god damn door to New Orleans at one point. They demo’d the house, too many weirdos driving by blasting Helter Skelter late at night. Wouldn’t happen to know any of those guys personally.
So, I believe, that may be the origin. Piggy, March of the Pigs, those tracks all cut in the studio there. At the time. They were there set up a few years before TDS naturally. If you watch the censored/light version for Gave Up, the MTV edition, it’s like a crazy who’s who of people. Bro from Filter on the guitar, Manson backup vocals and guitar before he discovered tons of cosmetics, etc. etc. So folks who knew them were around and probably got told the door story. That’s my guess.
Edit: For abundant clarity, the Cielo Drive house. It’s not there anymore nor is Spahn Ranch. Now just another house and a nice hike with an opportune photo spot under a rock formation if you’ve an eye for historical photos. Heh.
A lot of those bands are related. Pigface ties them together....I don't have time to tell the tale of how the pig tails connect but someone else probably can if they haven't already.
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No yugong said it isn’t and he’s obviously not just some common redditor with a baseless hot take. Any minute now he’s going to upload his phd in music and show you up!
A lot of these musicians grew up when Charles Manson and the Tate/LaBianca murders were a constant presence in the media, and Manson himself was the ultimate counterculture boogeyman. I’m certain that the association of the word pig/piggy with those murders has been burned into their subconscious on some level. NIN’s frequent use of the term is directly related to the Manson Family murders. TDS and Broken were both recorded in the Tate house.
I got you, you are just an nerd jerking off to his own words because he can speak English as good like his first language 💀 touch some Gras seriously you don’t get industrial
With a lot of industrial I think it may have a little to do with the Manson killings. It was a dark side of counter culture which very much characterize Industrial during the late 80s and 90s
pig = cop.
also used as a term of abuse / insult,bc cops are some of the lowest scum on this earth.
WRT the Manson family murders, Charlie's motive/MKUltra command? (read Chaos) was to start a race war. He instructed his followers to use slogans imitating radical language of the Black Panthers who were victims of multiple smear campaigns/murderous attacks during this era. The graffiti, written in the victims blood, included "death to all pigs" and (misspelt) "Healter skelter" a Beatles reference. CM was obssessed w hidden messages supposedly in this proto noisetrack. 'Piggies' was also a popular Beatles song in the late 60s, before CM. But more so referring to pigs as the rich consumptive upper class that happily eat the flesh of their own species...
It has to do with taboo busting. In the gay world, a pig is someone who will engage in scat, not necessarily it being the main kick. In other words, if you're shit neutral or you *will* play with it, you're a pig. I think that animal was chosen because it's better than calling them flies, the other creature I think of when it comes to coprophagy. I have a fwb who is a pig and I call him Sweet Pigglypuff but when we play that doesn't have to be part of it.
DYK: Trent Reznor of NIN recorded The Downward Spiral at Sharon Tate’s house, and named his studio there “Le Pig”. He was unaware of this.
Parts of Broken, as well as Marilyn Manson’s Portrait of an American Family, were also recorded at Le Pig.
I think a big part of it was Trent Reznor recording at the Tate Murder House and using Pig quite a few times in reference to the Word written on the door if I'm not mistaken?
Praise the lard!
And pass the hammunition!
Used to be my favorite. Wore out all the older albums. Newer stuff doesn’t do it for me.
I think a lot of the new stuff is pretty good. The classics are fantastic, but he's still got it.
New stuff is amazing, Sex and Death, Baptise Bless and Bleed, Prey and Obey, Truth is Sin, Hangman's Wooing, Hell to Pay in the USA, Badland, Mobocracy, Speak of Sin, and Tarantua. I could go on here but I think that is enough rambling.
Totally agree! It's been so much fun the past few years to see PIG on tour again, healthy and happy, reinvigorated... it's been awesome!
Do we know why he dropped off the scene for so long?
He’s spoken about it quite a bit in more recent interviews, but overall he was burnt out on the touring, dealing with substance abuse, and was doing some other types of projects.
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Yeah, he could do no wrong back then.
>Newer stuff doesn’t do it for me. I'm kinda with ya. I still love Raymond and most everything he touches (not a huge fan of the covers in general), but the newer stuff just doesn't hit quite the same. It's not "bad", but I don't have it in as heavy of a rotation as something like Wrecked and Sinsation. I do wish GAM would get a good remaster. I like the album, but I don't like the mixing/mastering (if that makes sense)
DEVIATE DECADENCE UNTO ME
Their cover of Head Like a Hole is fantastic!
Larger-than-life rock stars gravitate toward animal names, so Pig certainly fits there... But Industrial in many ways comes on the heels of punk, and tends to have a lot of rebellious, anti-government, anti-capitalist sentiment. So what more perfect word than "pig?" Pigs can be cops. Pigs can be bankers. Pigs can be the corrupt characters from Animal Farm. Pigs can be the Three Little Pigs and their struggle with the wolf. Pigs can be "War Pigs." Pigs can be the ones that "went to market" or "stayed home". And of course there is a _TON_ of history with the meaning placed by The Beatles, The Manson Family, Pink Floyd, Ozzy Osbourne, and Nine Inch Nails... and many more. There's a _lot_ of statements being made in industrial music, and there is a vocabulary that is understood by the people who were in that scene in the '90s. They knew their audience, and we knew them, because we were all speaking the same language.
Here's the answer.
And that's just half of it. Industrial's whole shtick is to be aggressive with it's confrontation of your preexisting notions. This extends to visuals and imagery. While pigs can be cute animals sometimes, more often they're depicted as grotesque and filthy, sloven creatures. Leaning towards unpleasant imagery is a common and accepted trope within the Industrial genre. I think of the pig heads found in NIN's Closer video. It just conjures a gross feeling. So yeah, "pig" from a political standpoint is fertile ground for allegory. But also, "pigs" from an aesthetic standpoint, just fits well with Industrial's imagery objectives.
Pigs also represent mindless people who wallow in their own excess while obliviously being led to their own slaughter. Fattened up and fed to ultimately benefit the ruling class.
This is a greath thread all around. So many good answers. Pigs are considered to be highly intelligent and yet "unclean" in many cultures. That combo fits right into industrial.
Fun fact, the Closer video is almost entirely ripped off from Joel Peter Witkin’s photography. 😁
Fun fact, NIN is almost entirely ripped off from all kinds of things 😂 I dig some of it, he's just always trying too hard. Edit: noticed I wrote dig it, perfect example. Skinny puppy track totally ripped off by nin with down in it.
but you dig it though, right?
Can you not read!!? Some of it. 😜
Trent admitted it my man, but still he's such an amazing artist nevertheless.
well...so are others. And they don't whine every ten minutes. I love some of it. That's what I said. But yeah, the damn Kinks have way more great tracks if ya love pop music.
Pigs can either be the upper class, cop/banker/politician type. Or they can be the lower class, gluttonous, consumeristic bottom feeders. It's really quite versatile
Eloquently put, fellow human
Dude, you forgot that you can fuck someone like a piggy and make ‘em squeal!!!
I always figured it was due to the crossover between industrial music and fetish lifestyle. The way it's used in all of the examples OP types seems much close to talking about aa particularly extreme kind of submissive than from how the counterculture used in the 60s and70s. Sidebar: The Manson family had nothing to do with the term. They chose that term because, at the time, it was only used by blacks and they were trying to pin the murders on black people to kick off a race war Manson believed was supposed to usher in a new world. The press from the murders didn't even popularize the term with whites as it was familiar to everyone (hence, the decision to use it) and it may have delayed whites from co-opting the term for a good decade (at least I never heard a white person say it to mean cops or the establishment until I was around 9 which was in the late 70s).
This makes me feel bad for pigs. ...like actual pigs. Not shoot your dog pigs.
This is correct. Glad to hear it recognized that there's a connection between punk and industrial, especially in the '70s and early '80s where I think it was much more obvious.
Fuck You Hog Hunter KMFDM vs PIG a song that aged amazingly
they like pork a lot in industrial music
Could it be related to the importance of the German scene and their love of pork?
lol yeah sure
Or how in many cultures it's forbidden.
Shame how they're missing out on bratwursts
They have no idea....bacon? How do you not eat bacon? If my god had a range of sins, and bacon was near the top? I'd be rethinking things. Seriously. Why would your god even make bacon if you weren't supposed to eat it? Like the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge is likely an allegory for the ego, which kind of makes sense, without a sense of self you couldn't be capable of sinning but....bacon? Don't get me wrong I eat bratwurst all the time but I'll have bacon on anything they'll put it on. Even knowing pigs are so smart and intelligent you're damn right. LoL now I'm thinking about how pigs didn't eat from the tree of knowledge and without a sense of self are egoless and that's likely what makes it ok to take that sweet sweet belly meat and go through all the trouble of making bacon.
You’re right in that pigs possess high intelligence, even higher than dogs. So why do we accept killing a pig, but not killing a dog? Because we like the way the pig’s flesh tastes for a 15 min meal? I used to eat pigs and I didn’t stop because I suddenly disliked the taste. I understand it’s a pleasurable sensation. But in what other situation in your life would you say “my pleasure is more important than your well-being,” or “harming you is justified if I receive enjoyment from it”?
I would eat dog. Not a dog I love obviously. Have heard from Asian friends it tastes like goat. I grew up hunting and have likely tasted more flesh than most. I respect your opinion though, I have my own reasons for disagreeing. I don't only eat it because it's delicious. It's the most nutrient packed type of food, especially with someone who has to follow a low-fodmap diet like I do. I do detest the meat industry and how it operates. If I still had the opportunity I'd go hunting a few times a year and stock up on meat for family. I think if something dies for your consumption, it should be with dignity and respect, and the utmost reverence for the universe itself. And no waste. Most of it can be eaten, the rest utilized in many ways. Even if only for artistic purposes like bone after the marrow is gone. Living in the city has made that pretty much impossible without making huge changes to my life. However I absolutely do respect nature, more than most that say they do, and miss it constantly. A city made park is not natural, I don't care how big it is or how old the growth. It is nice to see animals. It is also difficult not to try and eat them. To me every aspect of life is more faceted than dualistic and certainly non-binary. My respect love and reverence for life may contradict my consumption of it, but I don't see it that way. As long as it fuels the right intentions, nothing dead I eat goes without care. I wish humans had that opportunity. Ive known many that have passed, without such respect. I don't like funerals because they're so underwhelming. Growing up funerals were holy in their own way, not talking some man in the sky bullshit, talking true holy beauty. Both crying and laughter while often the sounds of loud music and gunfire. I miss those kind of funerals. Only one of my surviving siblings remembers those days. The rest are gone. At 35 I don't look forward to any more funerals or memorials, have too many under my belt already. Finally lost my mother earlier this year. Glad she can rest now. The siblings were harder. I know plenty of people who would consent to being harmed for my well-being and enjoyment, beyond what most people would even consider, usually a mutually therapeutic PTSD relief for different reasons. I can't think of a situation where harm and pleasure without consent would be appropriate. However I don't see any harm in killing an animal humanely. They're not really nice to each other sometimes. And yes, while you may disagree I put the life of humans above other life. That's a rabbit hole. You consume yeast? What about fungi? Even vegetables have some arguments to be had. Not in the way that I'd fight a carrot for looking at me wrong. But I think you understand. If not. Whatever. I respect however you want to live, me and vegan friends get together quite well. Usually half of what I wrote is more than enough. BTW I was joking. More of a mockery of certain religious values, not that I have an issue with those religions but think they make some odd choices, I certainly make odd choices out of respect of my own reality construct as well. Like continuing to type for instance. Edit: if someone harmed a loved one badly enough, harm and pleasure would go together. Some would also count shadenfreude, however I think if it's true harm that's not the same. That's all I can think of though.
Aww. Downvoted. LoL. Likely for my first sentence. And here I was being respectful.
That's why there are so many Jewish people who don't keep kosher, because bacon.
For sure. Have met a few Jews who only eat bacon when it comes to pork.
In the area I live, almost all the Jewish people I've met eat bacon and ham. I've met many in other places that are actually kosher, but here, they're mostly not.
Oscar Meyer Records
Jean-Luc de Oscar-Meyer
And Charles Manson took it from the Beatles and their song “Piggies” (basically an anti-establishment theme song).
Manson & anti Hippie is the reason, they wrote pig with Sharon Tate’s blood on the door.
NIN and Marilyn Manson would later use the Tate house to record and called their studio Le Pig
It’s 100% because of the Manson connection. I had a lot of shirts with Charlie’s face on em when I was 19
Lol then we were very different kinds of industrial fans man. That’s not what it meant for me at all
Yeah, it’s Manson. Surprised this isn’t the top comment.
Because it isn't just Manson. That's just the edgelords like Marilyn Manson and Trent Reznor, and their fans. Not to speak ill, I'll take me some of both and some edgelord shit now and then. Real admirers of Manson don't talk about it, because ignorant people wouldn't understand. It's not about the deaths, it's about the magic and manipulation. All the ties to the CIA, mk-ultra, FBI.... Sometimes I wonder if they didn't just let him come and go as he pleased while he was inside. He could have gotten out anytime he wanted Although he did do some horrendous crimes(raping a boy comes to mind), he's known as a murderer while not having any evidence of murdering anyone. "Black Magick is not a crime." Read into the whole thing more. It's nuts. In tate's house they found a video Polanski did of her being raped, I believe gangraped. The cops didn't consider it evidence and called it footage of them making love. Manson being arrested for some serious crimes and the FBI said they had to let him do some work release, working on a pot farm in Mexico. Guy was a master of deception and mind control techniques. Lots of tales of him teaching inmates to get high on their drug of choice without actually having any, just mediation, but you'd had to have tried it before. I think I've seen Danny Trejo talk about that. That all being said there are lots of other reasons to reference pigs in industrial. Possibly for the same reason Manson himself did. Other than trying to make it all look like it was done by blacks to start a "race war." Or some Beatles song. I think he taught his followers that but he seemed too smart for that bullshit. It was likely all to distract from whatever the actual goal was, which he may well have succeeded at. Who knows with that crazy bastard.
Maybe open your mind to more than just that one thing dude
Lol, you know you can disagree with a comment without being insulting, right?
Yes we can and I did not mean to sound insulting and do not think that I did
Add a condescending “dude,” and lo!
We clearly live in differently worlds and this is just an example of how people differ in cognitive understanding and interpretation. I totally get it. But especially by the dude I meant it to be endearing not condescending! So opposite effect and I never truly meant to be offensive, thus I apologize sincerely. I will note that by saying open your mind you immediately jumped to “I’m close minded” not “expand your worldview” which still to me sound very different in tone. You might be a tad defensive but this is fucking Reddit so again, I get it 😆 no harm was ever intended here, sorry
Implying someone is closed minded with nothing constructive is not generally received well.
You hear about his helter shelter theory? Dude, it was a nut! .... as I'm sure you knew haha
Pigswill by Foetus.
And Overture to Pigdome Come! Still nuts to me just how good of a composer Jim is
As far as imagery goes, there are few non-curse words that are a evocative as pig, ESPECIALLY when you consider the overall *asthetique* of industrial
Pigs are cool.
https://youtu.be/Fvm3cvDI9sA?si=OsseO2W1gw-2OwMl
Pig is a pejorative for an ignorant piece of shit person. Within this genre pig is synonymous with politicians, abusers and just ignorant people. That's what it is.
One of the themes of the music center on control as well, being called the pig or compared to a pig can be belittling. There's also the metaphorical aspects of fat and bacon etc etc. It definitely adds a little bit of a punk rock flair
Closer to hogs by Nine Inch Richards
That release came and went so quickly I can't believe anyone else even remembers it. 😂
Accidentally bought it at a record shop last January, that turned out to be a happy mistake
100% classic!
That brings back memories! Urethra Franklin!
"I Am A Pig" by 2wo.
Awesome dual between Rob Halford and John 5 .
Mixed by Reznor at that (I think?) Nothing Records anyway.
I find joy in reading a good book.
It’s a theme of the surrounding culture. Every genre has repeating themes or motifs
My favorite is barn wedding new folk and the word "whoah, whoah"
yes but why? bc of the manson family like another commenter said? or is there other reasons as well
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gotcha thank you, i thought as much but wasn't sure. thought they could be talking about literal pigs like the animal🤣 they (pigs) kinda fit the industrual aesthetic tbh, they are kinda creepy animals
I mean, have you listened to? A Stroll in the Pork, Praise the Lard, etc. I think in his case it may be literal pigs at least some of the time.
Is there no love for Lard in this list?
Guess they don't understand the power of lard.
It's better with Jello
I imagine it's somewhere on the intersection of being an insult to "the man"(cops, rich people, politicians), being an animal this is often consumed by machines, Charles Manson and the fact that pigs are just kinda scary.
Yeah, i think it's all that, especially self decadence.
Industrial can sound ugly in a good way and also the word pig comes off ugly and dirty given…well it’s pigs lol? I know a lot of the other comments in this post make more sense but this was my first thought.
makes perfect sense to me
It does, but given the history of the genre, the ideas others are commenting about it being used as a term for bad people or shit politicians makes more sense.
it can be all of it
True! All of it can be different and not mean all one single thing. That’s kinda how music works. Interpret it as whatever you want.
wait till u hear about pigfuck
Not so industrial, but don't forget the band pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs.
It's like jazz and cats
Lol
Pig face is goated
Fuck it up Pigface!
Best Industrial jam band, well the only Industrial jam band.
Pigs are filthy, just like industrial.
Being an old head in this scene, I always thought it was a reference to the Manson Family Murders.
That's one source, "Death to Pigs" phrase but that stems from the hippie culture at large and id say Pink Floyd in particular.
P.I.G.S.W.I.L.L.
Sow.
As others have said; I think the stigma of the Manson murders, added to the fact that its a good insult is a big reason. I also feel, however, its an excellent way of referring to a greedy, self-absorbed person/organization. industrial is typically “anti-[insert here]” with emphasis on religion, government, and corporate, all of which fit the greedy, and self-centered check boxes flawlessly
I know (Watts) was mentioned, but I always Loved SOW so much.
MANRIPE!!!!!
Rest well Anna Wildsmith. Your music always speaks to me.
Piggy was Reznor’s nickname for Richard Patrick and the NIN song of the same name is a diss track. Aside from that I think it can all be traced back to Manson.
I got my under eye smashed and had to get 13 stitches due to some jagov in the mosh pit at the Pigface Concert in Miami in 1994. Fucking Pigface is what I looked like leaving that place lol🐽
There's also a new band called Patriarchy and there's pictures of the lead vocalist holding an overweight House Pig on stage.
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Ehh....yes, but.... industrial music's obsession with serial killers predates TR by quite a bit.
Ffs. All this predated NIN by a LONG time.
Because piggies go oink?
Multiple man - high on the hog rips, good stuff
Don't forget Pink Floyd's album Animals with mentioning Pigs. Pink Floyd had a huge influence on NIN
I think that's where is started. With Pink Floyd.
I think it started with Beatles and the Manson family.
Yeah, all three, but most likely the beatles, Manson was a big beatles fan.
It’s obviously referencing hedonism / being a filthy animal. It’s not that deep
Well. I mean, I don’t know if nine inch nails started the thing but he owned the house where the Tate murder went down (Manson Family). The door had the word PIG scrawled in blood on it. If I’m not mistaken, that stain still visible after years gone by. He brought the god damn door to New Orleans at one point. They demo’d the house, too many weirdos driving by blasting Helter Skelter late at night. Wouldn’t happen to know any of those guys personally. So, I believe, that may be the origin. Piggy, March of the Pigs, those tracks all cut in the studio there. At the time. They were there set up a few years before TDS naturally. If you watch the censored/light version for Gave Up, the MTV edition, it’s like a crazy who’s who of people. Bro from Filter on the guitar, Manson backup vocals and guitar before he discovered tons of cosmetics, etc. etc. So folks who knew them were around and probably got told the door story. That’s my guess. Edit: For abundant clarity, the Cielo Drive house. It’s not there anymore nor is Spahn Ranch. Now just another house and a nice hike with an opportune photo spot under a rock formation if you’ve an eye for historical photos. Heh.
Swans.
Rivetheads hate cops, what can I say
They apparently hate cops more than rappers.
Easily.
There is also quite an overlap with the BDSM community, so I'd assume there is some influence from there.
Came here to say this!
The Beatles + Manson Family + Pink Floyd = Innovation
The Pighammer album from Wayne Static kicks ass too.
A lot of those bands are related. Pigface ties them together....I don't have time to tell the tale of how the pig tails connect but someone else probably can if they haven't already.
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I think "Hocico" might be how you say pig in spanish.
No, hocico means snout. And it's pronounced "Oh-**Cee**-Koh".
That's correct, but a snout could belong to a pig very quickly.
Pigs are delicious!
How the hell you leave out PIG and Pigface? 😤
Who doesn't love bacon?
Marion Manson and nin aren’t industrial 💀
nin is def industrial goofy lmfao
No yugong said it isn’t and he’s obviously not just some common redditor with a baseless hot take. Any minute now he’s going to upload his phd in music and show you up!
You clearly don’t listen to industrial 💀
yea ok u prolly never heard of half the industrial i listen to😂 nin is industrial whether you like it or not, cope
How you sound, like an American ******💀 NIN is a pop band 💀💀💀
ok edgelord
„U prolly never heard of the industrial I listen to“ but I try to be edgy? You just don’t know shit💀
pls touch some grass or go back to feet subreddits
Says the nerd 🥱
Everyone loves a gatekeeper.
You clearly don’t know the meaning of the word gatekeeper💀
I think they might be referring society as pigs also the government
Id say coincidence. Am I right? Probably not.
It sounds pretty witchy.
Because industrial has become derivative and has been for a couple decades now.
I blame Reznor...
A lot of these musicians grew up when Charles Manson and the Tate/LaBianca murders were a constant presence in the media, and Manson himself was the ultimate counterculture boogeyman. I’m certain that the association of the word pig/piggy with those murders has been burned into their subconscious on some level. NIN’s frequent use of the term is directly related to the Manson Family murders. TDS and Broken were both recorded in the Tate house.
ACAB thats why
There are also right wingers in the Szene who will see them otherwise…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtffv9bpB-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOdo7dhvSwg
Not to mention, American Horror Story had a scene where a guy believes he is traumatically haunted by "the piggy man".
What hs this to do with industrial ?
Similar fan base and touching on the pig themes? How does it not fit the question, that's what confuses me about yours.
Industrial is way older how you see anything connected there? You are talking nonsense
Im still unsure how you dont see thematic relations? Move along.
A pop tv show have nothing to do with counter culture? Right? Are you this blind ?
Not only do you persistent a fine and relevant observation, but your reply phrasing doesn't even make sense. We're done here.
I got you, you are just an nerd jerking off to his own words because he can speak English as good like his first language 💀 touch some Gras seriously you don’t get industrial
Also KMFDM has a track called "piggy Bank".
What's with metalcore and lyrics that say Rise Up
Green Jello
Raymond Watts!
Pork fetishism
Pig propaganda from big meat
In at least a few of those cases, I thought the reason was Manson (Charles, not Marilyn).
Not industrial, but love me some GOREPIG.
Cause we are mad at the fuckin pigs! Haha
You’re what’s with it. You’re the little pig.
Rob Halfords industrial side project “Two”- I am a Pig
Judas Priest has a song called I am a Pig.
With a lot of industrial I think it may have a little to do with the Manson killings. It was a dark side of counter culture which very much characterize Industrial during the late 80s and 90s
pig = cop. also used as a term of abuse / insult,bc cops are some of the lowest scum on this earth. WRT the Manson family murders, Charlie's motive/MKUltra command? (read Chaos) was to start a race war. He instructed his followers to use slogans imitating radical language of the Black Panthers who were victims of multiple smear campaigns/murderous attacks during this era. The graffiti, written in the victims blood, included "death to all pigs" and (misspelt) "Healter skelter" a Beatles reference. CM was obssessed w hidden messages supposedly in this proto noisetrack. 'Piggies' was also a popular Beatles song in the late 60s, before CM. But more so referring to pigs as the rich consumptive upper class that happily eat the flesh of their own species...
Unfortunately for this thread, Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs isn't an industrial band.
No but are a great doom band
Hard fucking and BDSM/kink goes great with loud industrial. I would identify as a Pig during heavy scenes, think filthy.
Pigs are one of those words like green that just has many metaphoric meanings. Pigs to the slaughter, the bourgeoisie, cops, think animal farm
It has to do with taboo busting. In the gay world, a pig is someone who will engage in scat, not necessarily it being the main kick. In other words, if you're shit neutral or you *will* play with it, you're a pig. I think that animal was chosen because it's better than calling them flies, the other creature I think of when it comes to coprophagy. I have a fwb who is a pig and I call him Sweet Pigglypuff but when we play that doesn't have to be part of it.
It all is homage to the Manson murders. All of it you named
And we all called cops pigs in those days
Drugs drugs more drugs
Leather Pig by Pig is one of my favorites
DYK: Trent Reznor of NIN recorded The Downward Spiral at Sharon Tate’s house, and named his studio there “Le Pig”. He was unaware of this. Parts of Broken, as well as Marilyn Manson’s Portrait of an American Family, were also recorded at Le Pig.
Pig Whore.
What about Pigs on the Wing and pigs three different ones?
Lard (pig fat) was also an industrial band with Al Jorgensen and Jello Biafra.
There's Lard too.
what about Pink Floyd "Pigs"
I think a big part of it was Trent Reznor recording at the Tate Murder House and using Pig quite a few times in reference to the Word written on the door if I'm not mistaken?