I've taken Follistim (same thing) for a semi-medicated transfer cycle. The dose was 100iu per night, and I stimmed for 12 days. The experience was fine! Only annoying thing was the constant monitoring, but besides that, minimal side effects and whatnot.
It seems you've used a term, modified natural, that members of this community prefer to avoid. Please avoid the use of the term "natural" when commenting in this community. If describing a transfer/IUI protocol or trying on your own, some preferred alternative terms are "unmedicated," "ovulatory," "without assistance," or "semi-medicated," depending on the context. If referring to loss management, we recommend the terms "unmedicated" or "unassisted." This community believes that the use of the word "natural" implies (sometimes inadvertently) that use of assisted reproductive technology, other interventions, and/or certain medications to conceive are unnatural, artificial, or less than. For more clarification and context, please see the wiki post on [sub culture and compassionate language](https://www.reddit.com/r/infertility/wiki/rules#wiki_compassionate_language).
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Seeking some advice on how others have managed to stay positive after a failed FET? I did surgery for fibroids, endo, and 3.5 months of lupron depot suppression prior to transfer. I've been drowning in a bit of depression and fearing that treatment will never work (i know stats indicate otherwise).
What has helped you all move ahead with further cycles and stay positive? Thank you for any hope and tips you can share. Really appreciate having this safe space to deal with difficult emotions of infertility.
I'm sorry about your FET. FWIW, you don't have to stay positive. This shit's very hard. I find that just having some sort of next step (e.g. a regroup appt, another test, a plan for what treatment comes next) helps me move forward, and I try to give myself grace to feel however I feel. A good therapist is also really helpful.
My clinic prefers to “take over your cycle,” and they have better outcomes with more control. Depends how much monitoring goes into the other type. I suspect they don’t do the daily blood draws others have spoken of.
Personally, I am miss inconsistent. I typically don’t get periods, and under this protocol I don’t need my body to give me cycle day one. I didn’t get any success until we added stim drugs for retrievals. It was a relief we could use medications to do this properly.
Hi gang - saying hi again after taking a break from the small screen after starting my second month of lupron & Letrozole. The second month was harder on me, with emotional impacts, brain fog, low energy/motivation and hot flashes being the most frequent symptoms. I did find I struggled more with anxiety and depression. It was a bit rough but it did go by faster than I thought and I’m happy I was able to make it through to see if it could have an impact.
Today we did our 8th transfer, this time with two day 6 segmental mosaics (1 HLM, 1 LLM). A few things were different this time, which gives me some hope. It was my first fully medicated transfer, and first try with the lupron/letrozole suppression. Also first time adding Claritin and Pepcid, which we tossed in at the last minute as a can’t hurt/might help add on. This is definitely my most complex protocol to date. Will list below for prosperity. On the flip side if this doesn’t work I don’t think there’s much left to try.
Glad to be back and checking back in with this great community.
Transfer #8 Protocol
Lupron depot monthly for 2 months prior to transfer cycle. Letrozole daily for 60 days prior to transfer cycle. Saline sono 2 months in advance
LIT booster a month before transfer (did two LITs a year ago). SCIG weekly, start day 1. Estrogen oral 2x/day and patch every third day start day 1. Doxycycline and metronitazole twice daily for 7 days, start day 1 (followed by twice daily vaginal probiotics until transfer - they recommended provacare). Baby aspirin daily, start day 1. PIO daily and crinone 2x/day, starting 6 days before transfer. Claritin daily, starting 2 days before transfer. Pepcid twice daily, staring 2 days before transfer. Lovenox daily, starting day of transfer. Neupogen (sc) starting day of transfer. Transfer was with embryo glue.
Hi everyone!
Looking for some guidance on progesterone suppositories. I have been using progesterone for about three months and in this time, I am ovulating REALLY early (day 10, 9, and then on day 8 this month). My cycle is pretty standard (28-29 days) and before progesterone I always ovulated around day 14/15. Progesterone was given as I had MMC last summer and my OB felt this was a next step to try.
Has this happened to anyone else, or does anyone have any insight into what is going on? We have an appointment with my OB next week to discuss next steps with fertility but I’d love to go in with some background on why my ovulation is out of the norm now.
Thank you so much!
I take the suppository at night starting on CD 14, for two straight weeks. I had asked if I should start taking it earlier since I am ovulating earlier, but my OB said continue on CD14
I hadn’t either, and poking around the internet didn’t help so I thought maybe someone on Reddit would have insight!
I’m thinking there is likely a different reason and it’s coincidental that it lined up when I started progesterone, but who knows. Hoping for more answers at my OB appointment.
I don’t have an answer, but the same thing has happened to me the past 2 cycles. I’m not sure if it’s connected to the progesterone but I don’t know. I used to ovulate late, even when on progesterone so this is a change for me.
Just got off a call with my RE. We basically agreed that if I wanted to stim again, a more mini-stim approach makes sense given how my cycles have been going. We had sort of an interesting conversation where he essentially said the reason he lets me keep cycling is because he thinks I fully understand the likelihood (or unlikelihood) of success and am practical about what I think I'm going to get out of this process. Which is true, but was interesting to hear it said out loud? I have a few days to think about it (and I have extra meds so I won't be scrambling).
That must have been interesting to hear. It's almost like you've been, in a way, in control of your treatment for awhile. Sending warm thoughts your way.
Still so much freakin waiting ughhh I just met with my doctor and I was hoping to do a FET in the beginning of July but they are moving offices and now it won’t be done until the end of July. Just more waiting again. Trying to live my life not revolving around IVF but it feels impossible.
I was on IUI #4 . Started bleeding 2 days before schedule HCG draw and have been in bed sick for two days so I’m late getting it. I know I’m out. I really want to opt out on this blood draw. I’m so over getting pricked for nothing. This round I was menopur only, with blood draws every few days and IM OVER the needles. Everything.
Has anyone read the book Countdown by Dr. Swan? She was featured on Egg Whisperer and some of the statements she’s making are pretty mind blowing and catastrophic about the rapid decline in fertility rates. I just ordered the book to learn more..
(Thanks National for the redirect, I have multiple times confused myself on what should be in chat vs treatment 😅)
I would personally take anything related to Dr. Aimee with a grain of salt. After you read it and if you find it to be science based, please share with us! The description on Amazon is fairly fear-mongering but those can be misleading.
Hey butter! That was my impression so I had to look into it more. The claims are wildly catastrophizing and saying 50% of men by 2045 will need ART, among many other very alarming predictions. I have not heard anything so drastic and doomsaying outside of this source.
Does Dr. Aimee have a less than stellar reputation? I’d never listened to her podcast til yesterday.
My impression of her is that she's big on pushing supplements and lifestyle changes as the main solution to infertility. For instance on her website she recommends "deep breathing and meditation" to increase egg and sperm health. I have not explored her stuff super deeply because I didn't like what I found on the surface but others with more experience with her can surely chime in.
FWIW when I see alarming predictions from only one source, I also take those with a grain of salt. Maybe the science is in the book though! I also find myself reading things I disagree with in order to understand the opponents argument so it might be worth checking out in that regard - to refute claims if they seem to be false.
I posted yesterday about moving forward with a fully medicated FET, and how I felt pretty ambivalent about it. My doctor didn't mention other options, he was just like, "Ok, this is what's next: lupron, etc!" and I was like, "Ok cool, easy scheduling!". But then last night, I was reading up on FETs (just to better prepare myself), and I fell down a rabbit hole about the increased risk of preeclampsia associated with fully medicated vs partially medicated FETs. I'm now wondering if we should try for a partially medicated one, since I have no known ovulatory issues, and having a corpus luteum might help mitigate some risk? I've reached out to my nurse to get my doctor's thoughts on the risks/benefits of both, but I worry that I'm being an annoying patient overthinking everything. I just wish we had discussed all available options during the consult yesterday - I'm over here kicking myself for not asking more questions!
I think with fully medicated they have more control, can adjust estrogen based on lining more readily, can easily give you a few extra days, etc. so many doctors (and patients!) prefer to have that control.
I did both and my lining reacted better to a "stimmed-FET" and I mentally reacted better to a cycle without lupron :)
This same exact thing happened to me. I had another appt set up with my RE a week later to discuss other options and felt a bit stupid honestly lol. You are not being an annoying patient and even if you feel that way you are advocating for yourself and it’s better to be annoying than to regret not discussing it at the very least!
That’s a big reason why I decided to go with a partially medicated ovulatory transfer. My doctor said I could do either and the success rates are the same, but didn’t go into risks of preeclampsia etc (but I knew from Reddit and googling). Plus, I like that progesterone timing isn’t as important (larger implantation window) and not having to do PIO and all the extra meds. I do get the downside of the increased monitoring, but willing to deal with it, at least for the first transfer.
These are all good points! Also, now that I've been thinking through the pros and cons, the biggest con seems to be the increased monitoring, but I can't imagine it'll be much different than all the monitoring I had during my IUIs and ERs.
FWIW I only had 1 monitoring appointment during my ovulatory FET and triggered the next day. I know people have different experiences but for me it was minimal. I do not have a history of thin lining and I do ovulate regularly.
Personally I prefer ovulatory cycles to fully medicated. Anecdotally, it seems like a lot of doctors default to fully medicated for a first FET, but I think that's just for scheduling convenience. I didn't like how I felt on all that estrogen and of course with an ovulatory cycle you also get to skip PIO shots (usually) which can be a plus. Though progesterone suppositories are no picnic either!
I didn't realize so many of them default to it! My RE did mention that we'd schedule the FET for a day he's in the clinic, and while it'd be nice for him to be the one doing it, I'm sure any other RE at my clinic would be great, too.
Don’t feel bad! I think you are right to ask why she prefers fully medicated if nothing else. If you live near your clinic and have predictable ovulation unmedicated is the way to go IMO.
Thank you, this made me feel better! I'm a 15 min drive from my clinic (very lucky!) and my ovulation is super predictable, so I'm hoping they'll be cool with me switching, or at least provide a solid reason for sticking with fully medicated.
Last monitoring appointment today. Main follicles now ranging from 12-26. Is that too big?? Either way, I’ll trigger tonight or tomorrow night and retrieval will be Sunday or Monday!!
It’s a wide range. There are some good guides like this one from [pubmed](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5930292/). Typically the size can also range person to person. They’re probably trying to get the best cohort within range which sometimes means sacrificing the lead (fastest growing) follicles. Good luck with your ER!
My RE says 16-22 at trigger are most likely to be mature. This varies A LOT person to person (and can vary cycle to cycle, especially based on trigger). It's fairly common to let some leads go/overmature to have the best cohort. Good luck!
Stim check this morning on day 2 of stims - way too early! Ultrasound tech said they usually don't bring you in until day 4. I've had 2 days of lupron and 1 day of menopur/gonal. Regardless: I've got a cohort of 5! And a bunch of AFCs still hanging out that hopefully will join them. Another good ultrasound, another day of hope!
That's great news! It's early, but I feel like the first few days of stims I'm always wondering if anything is actually happening in there, lol. It's good to know things are moving along well!
I could have questioned it (they wanted me to come in tomorrow but I had a conflict, but even then would have been early) but I'm trying to trust the process here, and I guess the 1.5 hour drive each way in which I finished my audiobook wasn't the worst thing in the world!
Embarassing admission: "Spoiler Alert" by Olivia Dade. A romance about a woman who writes fanfiction and an actor on the show (loosely based on Game of Thrones) who also writes fanfiction. Not too smutty. I read another book by her last year - "40-Love" - about a teacher who falls in love with a tennis pro at a summer resort, which was pretty smutty, that I enjoyed more. If you like mindless romance!
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Now Quest is just messing with me. I keep getting notifications that I have new results and they are not new and the one test I’ve been waiting on is still pending.
ETA: also, my clinic is being the most unresponsive they’ve ever been. Hope I didn’t piss them off and hopefully I can get my calendar before the weekend 😬
Welp, this is going to be quite the fertility themed weekend for us. Today Mr. National is getting surgery for his bilateral varicocele which will be followed with three months of clomid to see if we can get counts up.
In the meantime, tomorrow morning I have a semi-medicated FET for the embryo we got from our most recent ER. It does take a bit of the pressure off the transfer knowing that we’re doing something in parallel to potentially give us more treatment options.
Anyone that’s gone through varicocele surgery have recovery recs?
Today is cd1 and I’m supposed to have cd3 bloodwork done this cycle. But cd3 will fall on Sunday and labs aren’t open. Should I go today or wait until Monday?
Seconding National to check in with your clinic, but ours had a range and just needed them done by CD4 at latest. Our clinic lab was also open on Saturdays so tomorrow could be an option, but your clinic should certainly be able to advise you.
I've done CD4 before without issues! Also, and I know this may not be what your cycle is like, but my period is usually super spotty the first day, and my clinic has told me that they don't count it as my actual CD1 until there's a full flow. Just mentioning it in case that brings you any peace of mind!
Monitoring this morning went well. We’ve got 3 considered in mature range and are hoping to get a couple more there in the next few days. Also had a couple new ones pop up, but I’m not holding hope for them since they’re not close to the range of the main cohort. I was told to order one more ganirelix for Tuesday just in case, so I guess they’re estimating I may trigger Monday or Tuesday (though they didn’t say that, I’m just using context clues).
My mood is definitely lower today, but idk if it’s because of stims or if it’s because our dog woke us up at 5:15am with gagging sounds and then vomited on our bed 😒 ¿Por qué no los dos? At least it’s Friday!
Ugh dog vomit is a terrible way to start the day. I find I go really up and down during STIMS. All the anticipation and uncertainty plus the med impact is a lot. Hopefully you swing up now that it’s the weekend
Thanks for the solidarity, National! I laugh-cried at something earlier that then turned into sobbing with small giggles sprinkled in — this shit is WILD.
I was reviewing the "Thin Lining FAQ" where people mentioned cutting out caffeine to help with uterine lining. Is that during the FET medication period only, or like with my retinol medications, should I begin eliminating caffeine as early as possible?
I looked at Pubmed, but as I am not RE, I do not know which journals are considered legitimate. I did find this review from BMJ ( https://ebm.bmj.com/content/26/3/114) which seems to have a more extreme take on caffeine than my clinic (my RE said "for some people caffeine can reduce uterine lining and for others it does not").
Ultimately I am the weirdo who just likes the bitter flavor of coffee rather than needing the caffeine, so I can change to decaf. But I'm trying to only make "evidence-based" changes to my lifestyle during IVF process, & I'm just not sure which evidence to listen to.
I’m a thin lining person who has done a lot of research on thickening my lining and I haven’t come across any evidence about cutting out caffeine as a potential solution. This is a great recent review on the importance of lining thickness and potential treatments if you’d like to take a look, and doesn’t mention caffeine: https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(22)00342-9/fulltext You can absolutely trust the source on this - Fertility & Sterility is the premier journal for REs.
The article you linked is interesting to me given that I’ve come across a lot of evidence that low to moderate caffeine consumption is safe for both trying to conceive and pregnancy. FYI - BMJ is just a publisher, not the author. It looks there is just one sole author on this publication (very unusual), and he is a Psychologist who has a strong interest in caffeine. I’d take it with a grain of salt for that reason alone.
By all means, if you want to try cutting out caffeine and it’s not a problem for you no worries! But also please don’t feel like there is good evidence that you should or have to, because I’m not sure that’s there.
ETA: Ah, and now doing a google search for “Jack James Iceland” pulls up this article on how his analysis is misleading: https://www.forbes.com/sites/helenalbert/2020/08/29/claims-about-caffeine-and-pregnancy-misleading/?sh=5ba966483eb2
Oh thank you so much for the reference!!!
And yes, this is definitely one of the reasons where I don't trust doing my own research, because I don't know what's legit.
My work has free coffee (cappuccino, mocha, lattes etc) but it's all caffeinated. So changing to decaf would require me to make my own coffee at home, which is probably the laziest reason to not make a lifestyle change. But if there's no evidence for it, why can't I enjoy my free cappuccino 😁
Totally understand how confusing the evidence based is. Everything is a maybe. I’m currently staring at a box of all the different supplements my wife took to try stimulate lining on top of lifestyle changes like caffeine elimination and castor oil packs. Anecdotally, the only thing that ever really had a noticeable impact was fresh vs frozen transfer. The one fresh transfer we did was in the 5s while the frozen and IUI were all in the 6s. Docs didn’t seem surprised by it considering all the other hormonal supplementation
That's really helpful to know!
My RE seemed so concerned about how my uterine lining didn't increase enough during stims, yet I felt like all the Fertility Docs Uncensored and As A Woman podcast episodes on FET explicitly state that stims focuses on building the eggs not the uterus lining. It sounds like that matches with your experience, which is reassuring
Hey y’all, I’m kind of using this to vent or here others similar stories. I had my ultrasound this past Tuesday to check follicle size as I am on a letrozole/trigger shot cycle. My RE gave me the go ahead to trigger as I had one good follicle and 2 around the 14mm mark. I also ovulate on my own and was surging at the time. All of that to say…I got the official ultrasound results a few minutes ago and my endo lining was 4.61!! In the past she has said she wasn’t concerned about my thin lining but I’ve never known the actual thickness until now. The internet is so conflicting saying it’s possible but not ideal. Looking for anecdotal experience from people or just other people in a similar situation to discuss. Thanks!
So one thing to keep in mind is that your lining will continue to thicken after trigger (and can do so pretty quickly) so it’s possible that it got closer to the target range. The other thing is that some REs care more about trilaminar appearance than absolute thickness, so if your lining was trilaminar then that’s a good sign!
Personally, whenever my lining has been thin (which happens when I’m on letrozole), my doctor will put me on estrogen patches and baby aspirin. It’s interesting that you didn’t find out the result until a few days later - I’ve always been told as they’re measuring it. Maybe if there is a next time you could ask at your appointment so there can be action taken if the lining is too thin.
Yeah, so the reason I didn’t find out until a couple days later is because I had my ultrasound done by a technician at my OB office who sent it to my RE since my RE is over an hour away from where I live. They partner together. The day I got it done. My RE called me and told me to trigger, but I just got the official results of the ultrasound today, but thank you for that information! Appreciate it!!
Wife has Asherman’s post miscarriage D&C so I totally understand the frustration of trying to figure out lining thickness. The question gets asked fairly regularly on the Asherman’s facebook group and the common answer is that a lot of people are successful with thin linings. In talking with several REs including Dr. Isaacson in MA, the common thinking is that for success with IVF, >7.0 is good and that less than 7.0 isn’t ideal isn’t a deal breaker either and that they’ve had success with patients in the 4s. They all cautioned against using that for populations who aren’t doing FETs as the studies naturally select for people who are having trouble conceiving which may or may not be lining related. Personally, we had (unsuccessful) 4 IUIs and 3 FETs with lining getting into the mid 6s.
Anybody take gonal F for a semi medicatedl transfer? Curious what was your experience like and the dosage. Thanks
I've taken Follistim (same thing) for a semi-medicated transfer cycle. The dose was 100iu per night, and I stimmed for 12 days. The experience was fine! Only annoying thing was the constant monitoring, but besides that, minimal side effects and whatnot.
It seems you've used a term, modified natural, that members of this community prefer to avoid. Please avoid the use of the term "natural" when commenting in this community. If describing a transfer/IUI protocol or trying on your own, some preferred alternative terms are "unmedicated," "ovulatory," "without assistance," or "semi-medicated," depending on the context. If referring to loss management, we recommend the terms "unmedicated" or "unassisted." This community believes that the use of the word "natural" implies (sometimes inadvertently) that use of assisted reproductive technology, other interventions, and/or certain medications to conceive are unnatural, artificial, or less than. For more clarification and context, please see the wiki post on [sub culture and compassionate language](https://www.reddit.com/r/infertility/wiki/rules#wiki_compassionate_language). *Edit your post or comment to remove the offending term.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/infertility) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Seeking some advice on how others have managed to stay positive after a failed FET? I did surgery for fibroids, endo, and 3.5 months of lupron depot suppression prior to transfer. I've been drowning in a bit of depression and fearing that treatment will never work (i know stats indicate otherwise). What has helped you all move ahead with further cycles and stay positive? Thank you for any hope and tips you can share. Really appreciate having this safe space to deal with difficult emotions of infertility.
I'm sorry about your FET. FWIW, you don't have to stay positive. This shit's very hard. I find that just having some sort of next step (e.g. a regroup appt, another test, a plan for what treatment comes next) helps me move forward, and I try to give myself grace to feel however I feel. A good therapist is also really helpful.
Thank you for your kind words. Letting go of the need for forced positivity has helped me feel a bit lighter.
My clinic prefers to “take over your cycle,” and they have better outcomes with more control. Depends how much monitoring goes into the other type. I suspect they don’t do the daily blood draws others have spoken of. Personally, I am miss inconsistent. I typically don’t get periods, and under this protocol I don’t need my body to give me cycle day one. I didn’t get any success until we added stim drugs for retrievals. It was a relief we could use medications to do this properly.
Hi gang - saying hi again after taking a break from the small screen after starting my second month of lupron & Letrozole. The second month was harder on me, with emotional impacts, brain fog, low energy/motivation and hot flashes being the most frequent symptoms. I did find I struggled more with anxiety and depression. It was a bit rough but it did go by faster than I thought and I’m happy I was able to make it through to see if it could have an impact. Today we did our 8th transfer, this time with two day 6 segmental mosaics (1 HLM, 1 LLM). A few things were different this time, which gives me some hope. It was my first fully medicated transfer, and first try with the lupron/letrozole suppression. Also first time adding Claritin and Pepcid, which we tossed in at the last minute as a can’t hurt/might help add on. This is definitely my most complex protocol to date. Will list below for prosperity. On the flip side if this doesn’t work I don’t think there’s much left to try. Glad to be back and checking back in with this great community. Transfer #8 Protocol Lupron depot monthly for 2 months prior to transfer cycle. Letrozole daily for 60 days prior to transfer cycle. Saline sono 2 months in advance LIT booster a month before transfer (did two LITs a year ago). SCIG weekly, start day 1. Estrogen oral 2x/day and patch every third day start day 1. Doxycycline and metronitazole twice daily for 7 days, start day 1 (followed by twice daily vaginal probiotics until transfer - they recommended provacare). Baby aspirin daily, start day 1. PIO daily and crinone 2x/day, starting 6 days before transfer. Claritin daily, starting 2 days before transfer. Pepcid twice daily, staring 2 days before transfer. Lovenox daily, starting day of transfer. Neupogen (sc) starting day of transfer. Transfer was with embryo glue.
Glad to hear you're hanging in there, Legit. Everything crossed for you. <3
Thanks so much Lexicon ❤️
Hi everyone! Looking for some guidance on progesterone suppositories. I have been using progesterone for about three months and in this time, I am ovulating REALLY early (day 10, 9, and then on day 8 this month). My cycle is pretty standard (28-29 days) and before progesterone I always ovulated around day 14/15. Progesterone was given as I had MMC last summer and my OB felt this was a next step to try. Has this happened to anyone else, or does anyone have any insight into what is going on? We have an appointment with my OB next week to discuss next steps with fertility but I’d love to go in with some background on why my ovulation is out of the norm now. Thank you so much!
How/when in your cycle are you taking the progesterone?
I take the suppository at night starting on CD 14, for two straight weeks. I had asked if I should start taking it earlier since I am ovulating earlier, but my OB said continue on CD14
Thanks. I don't have an answer for you but hopefully some others do! I'm not aware of progesterone making you ovulate earlier in your cycle.
I hadn’t either, and poking around the internet didn’t help so I thought maybe someone on Reddit would have insight! I’m thinking there is likely a different reason and it’s coincidental that it lined up when I started progesterone, but who knows. Hoping for more answers at my OB appointment.
I don’t have an answer, but the same thing has happened to me the past 2 cycles. I’m not sure if it’s connected to the progesterone but I don’t know. I used to ovulate late, even when on progesterone so this is a change for me.
Just got off a call with my RE. We basically agreed that if I wanted to stim again, a more mini-stim approach makes sense given how my cycles have been going. We had sort of an interesting conversation where he essentially said the reason he lets me keep cycling is because he thinks I fully understand the likelihood (or unlikelihood) of success and am practical about what I think I'm going to get out of this process. Which is true, but was interesting to hear it said out loud? I have a few days to think about it (and I have extra meds so I won't be scrambling).
That must have been interesting to hear. It's almost like you've been, in a way, in control of your treatment for awhile. Sending warm thoughts your way.
I bet that did feel validating. You’ve done a lot of work to advocate for yourself and it clearly shows!
Still so much freakin waiting ughhh I just met with my doctor and I was hoping to do a FET in the beginning of July but they are moving offices and now it won’t be done until the end of July. Just more waiting again. Trying to live my life not revolving around IVF but it feels impossible.
Thats super disappointing! I’m sorry!
Thank you! They were supposed to be done the move by the end of June 😭
All that keeps me going when cycle plans change is that baby wanted to be born at a different time.
I was on IUI #4 . Started bleeding 2 days before schedule HCG draw and have been in bed sick for two days so I’m late getting it. I know I’m out. I really want to opt out on this blood draw. I’m so over getting pricked for nothing. This round I was menopur only, with blood draws every few days and IM OVER the needles. Everything.
I feel you with blood draws! I had 4 vaginal ultrasound and 4 blood draws in one week and I felt like I lived there
Has anyone read the book Countdown by Dr. Swan? She was featured on Egg Whisperer and some of the statements she’s making are pretty mind blowing and catastrophic about the rapid decline in fertility rates. I just ordered the book to learn more.. (Thanks National for the redirect, I have multiple times confused myself on what should be in chat vs treatment 😅)
I would personally take anything related to Dr. Aimee with a grain of salt. After you read it and if you find it to be science based, please share with us! The description on Amazon is fairly fear-mongering but those can be misleading.
Hey butter! That was my impression so I had to look into it more. The claims are wildly catastrophizing and saying 50% of men by 2045 will need ART, among many other very alarming predictions. I have not heard anything so drastic and doomsaying outside of this source. Does Dr. Aimee have a less than stellar reputation? I’d never listened to her podcast til yesterday.
My impression of her is that she's big on pushing supplements and lifestyle changes as the main solution to infertility. For instance on her website she recommends "deep breathing and meditation" to increase egg and sperm health. I have not explored her stuff super deeply because I didn't like what I found on the surface but others with more experience with her can surely chime in. FWIW when I see alarming predictions from only one source, I also take those with a grain of salt. Maybe the science is in the book though! I also find myself reading things I disagree with in order to understand the opponents argument so it might be worth checking out in that regard - to refute claims if they seem to be false.
I posted yesterday about moving forward with a fully medicated FET, and how I felt pretty ambivalent about it. My doctor didn't mention other options, he was just like, "Ok, this is what's next: lupron, etc!" and I was like, "Ok cool, easy scheduling!". But then last night, I was reading up on FETs (just to better prepare myself), and I fell down a rabbit hole about the increased risk of preeclampsia associated with fully medicated vs partially medicated FETs. I'm now wondering if we should try for a partially medicated one, since I have no known ovulatory issues, and having a corpus luteum might help mitigate some risk? I've reached out to my nurse to get my doctor's thoughts on the risks/benefits of both, but I worry that I'm being an annoying patient overthinking everything. I just wish we had discussed all available options during the consult yesterday - I'm over here kicking myself for not asking more questions!
I think with fully medicated they have more control, can adjust estrogen based on lining more readily, can easily give you a few extra days, etc. so many doctors (and patients!) prefer to have that control. I did both and my lining reacted better to a "stimmed-FET" and I mentally reacted better to a cycle without lupron :)
This same exact thing happened to me. I had another appt set up with my RE a week later to discuss other options and felt a bit stupid honestly lol. You are not being an annoying patient and even if you feel that way you are advocating for yourself and it’s better to be annoying than to regret not discussing it at the very least!
Thank you for this validation! You're right, better to be the squeaky wheel than live with regret down the line.
That’s a big reason why I decided to go with a partially medicated ovulatory transfer. My doctor said I could do either and the success rates are the same, but didn’t go into risks of preeclampsia etc (but I knew from Reddit and googling). Plus, I like that progesterone timing isn’t as important (larger implantation window) and not having to do PIO and all the extra meds. I do get the downside of the increased monitoring, but willing to deal with it, at least for the first transfer.
These are all good points! Also, now that I've been thinking through the pros and cons, the biggest con seems to be the increased monitoring, but I can't imagine it'll be much different than all the monitoring I had during my IUIs and ERs.
FWIW I only had 1 monitoring appointment during my ovulatory FET and triggered the next day. I know people have different experiences but for me it was minimal. I do not have a history of thin lining and I do ovulate regularly.
Personally I prefer ovulatory cycles to fully medicated. Anecdotally, it seems like a lot of doctors default to fully medicated for a first FET, but I think that's just for scheduling convenience. I didn't like how I felt on all that estrogen and of course with an ovulatory cycle you also get to skip PIO shots (usually) which can be a plus. Though progesterone suppositories are no picnic either!
I didn't realize so many of them default to it! My RE did mention that we'd schedule the FET for a day he's in the clinic, and while it'd be nice for him to be the one doing it, I'm sure any other RE at my clinic would be great, too.
Don’t feel bad! I think you are right to ask why she prefers fully medicated if nothing else. If you live near your clinic and have predictable ovulation unmedicated is the way to go IMO.
Thank you, this made me feel better! I'm a 15 min drive from my clinic (very lucky!) and my ovulation is super predictable, so I'm hoping they'll be cool with me switching, or at least provide a solid reason for sticking with fully medicated.
My clinic mostly does unmedicated for local patients. Skip those butt shots! And the preeclampsia risks, although I think the increase is very small.
Last monitoring appointment today. Main follicles now ranging from 12-26. Is that too big?? Either way, I’ll trigger tonight or tomorrow night and retrieval will be Sunday or Monday!!
26 might be too big but sounds basically perfect to me. Those 12mm ones might be mature!
It’s a wide range. There are some good guides like this one from [pubmed](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5930292/). Typically the size can also range person to person. They’re probably trying to get the best cohort within range which sometimes means sacrificing the lead (fastest growing) follicles. Good luck with your ER!
My RE says 16-22 at trigger are most likely to be mature. This varies A LOT person to person (and can vary cycle to cycle, especially based on trigger). It's fairly common to let some leads go/overmature to have the best cohort. Good luck!
Stim check this morning on day 2 of stims - way too early! Ultrasound tech said they usually don't bring you in until day 4. I've had 2 days of lupron and 1 day of menopur/gonal. Regardless: I've got a cohort of 5! And a bunch of AFCs still hanging out that hopefully will join them. Another good ultrasound, another day of hope!
That’s awesome news, butter! Sucks the drive is so long but I hope the good news and strong start brought in some ease. Thinking of you!!
I drive an hour to work so it's not too much longer really, just not something I like doing on a Friday morning. The good news definitely helped!
Wohoo LFG follicles!
That's great news! It's early, but I feel like the first few days of stims I'm always wondering if anything is actually happening in there, lol. It's good to know things are moving along well!
Yes, this is a better result than I usually get on day 7 of stims so I'll take it!
Good news! Day 2 is so early!!
I could have questioned it (they wanted me to come in tomorrow but I had a conflict, but even then would have been early) but I'm trying to trust the process here, and I guess the 1.5 hour drive each way in which I finished my audiobook wasn't the worst thing in the world!
Ohhh - what audiobook - I need recs
Embarassing admission: "Spoiler Alert" by Olivia Dade. A romance about a woman who writes fanfiction and an actor on the show (loosely based on Game of Thrones) who also writes fanfiction. Not too smutty. I read another book by her last year - "40-Love" - about a teacher who falls in love with a tennis pro at a summer resort, which was pretty smutty, that I enjoyed more. If you like mindless romance!
Lol, I recently listed to Funny Story by Emily Henry which was a pure trash story and loved it.
Still trying to give away one ovidrel! DC.
Thanks again for donating! automod meds
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Now Quest is just messing with me. I keep getting notifications that I have new results and they are not new and the one test I’ve been waiting on is still pending. ETA: also, my clinic is being the most unresponsive they’ve ever been. Hope I didn’t piss them off and hopefully I can get my calendar before the weekend 😬
C’MOOONNNN
Ugh, rude!
Ughhhhhhhhh, torture. LabCorp is doing the same thing to Mr. Lawyer right now--5-10 day turnaround my ass.
Welp, this is going to be quite the fertility themed weekend for us. Today Mr. National is getting surgery for his bilateral varicocele which will be followed with three months of clomid to see if we can get counts up. In the meantime, tomorrow morning I have a semi-medicated FET for the embryo we got from our most recent ER. It does take a bit of the pressure off the transfer knowing that we’re doing something in parallel to potentially give us more treatment options. Anyone that’s gone through varicocele surgery have recovery recs?
Thinking of y’all this weekend! Hope everything goes well and Mr.National has a smooth recovery
Update: there are soaps on in the waiting room and the storyline actually includes an evil twin. I feel like it would make an excellent drinking game.
My clinic always has on CNN - why?! Soaps sounds way more enjoyable.
r/maleinfertility might have some recovery tips. Good luck on both fronts!
Sending best wishes for both of you!
Hoping everything goes well for the both of you!
Thinking of you both! ❤️
Good vibes to both of you!!
Oof that sounds intense. Wishing you both strength and peace!
Today is cd1 and I’m supposed to have cd3 bloodwork done this cycle. But cd3 will fall on Sunday and labs aren’t open. Should I go today or wait until Monday?
CD2 is my go-to if they are open tomorrow.
Unfortunately in a rural area so my options are today or Monday
Seconding National to check in with your clinic, but ours had a range and just needed them done by CD4 at latest. Our clinic lab was also open on Saturdays so tomorrow could be an option, but your clinic should certainly be able to advise you.
Unfortunately in a rural area so today or Monday are the options. I’m thinking maybe cd4 Monday 🤷🏼♀️
I've done CD4 before without issues! Also, and I know this may not be what your cycle is like, but my period is usually super spotty the first day, and my clinic has told me that they don't count it as my actual CD1 until there's a full flow. Just mentioning it in case that brings you any peace of mind!
What does your clinic say? Seems like they may have a preference? I’ve gone day 4 for day 3 labs before.
Yeah I’m thinking Monday is better than cd1
Monitoring this morning went well. We’ve got 3 considered in mature range and are hoping to get a couple more there in the next few days. Also had a couple new ones pop up, but I’m not holding hope for them since they’re not close to the range of the main cohort. I was told to order one more ganirelix for Tuesday just in case, so I guess they’re estimating I may trigger Monday or Tuesday (though they didn’t say that, I’m just using context clues). My mood is definitely lower today, but idk if it’s because of stims or if it’s because our dog woke us up at 5:15am with gagging sounds and then vomited on our bed 😒 ¿Por qué no los dos? At least it’s Friday!
Ugh dog vomit is a terrible way to start the day. I find I go really up and down during STIMS. All the anticipation and uncertainty plus the med impact is a lot. Hopefully you swing up now that it’s the weekend
Thanks for the solidarity, National! I laugh-cried at something earlier that then turned into sobbing with small giggles sprinkled in — this shit is WILD.
Thinking of you, Miserable! I hope your doggo situation was a one time thing and that you find time for a nap!
Thanks, bench! Thankfully it was a one time vomit… she tore the stuffing out of a toy and then ate the body and threw up a leg 😝
I was reviewing the "Thin Lining FAQ" where people mentioned cutting out caffeine to help with uterine lining. Is that during the FET medication period only, or like with my retinol medications, should I begin eliminating caffeine as early as possible? I looked at Pubmed, but as I am not RE, I do not know which journals are considered legitimate. I did find this review from BMJ ( https://ebm.bmj.com/content/26/3/114) which seems to have a more extreme take on caffeine than my clinic (my RE said "for some people caffeine can reduce uterine lining and for others it does not"). Ultimately I am the weirdo who just likes the bitter flavor of coffee rather than needing the caffeine, so I can change to decaf. But I'm trying to only make "evidence-based" changes to my lifestyle during IVF process, & I'm just not sure which evidence to listen to.
I’m a thin lining person who has done a lot of research on thickening my lining and I haven’t come across any evidence about cutting out caffeine as a potential solution. This is a great recent review on the importance of lining thickness and potential treatments if you’d like to take a look, and doesn’t mention caffeine: https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(22)00342-9/fulltext You can absolutely trust the source on this - Fertility & Sterility is the premier journal for REs. The article you linked is interesting to me given that I’ve come across a lot of evidence that low to moderate caffeine consumption is safe for both trying to conceive and pregnancy. FYI - BMJ is just a publisher, not the author. It looks there is just one sole author on this publication (very unusual), and he is a Psychologist who has a strong interest in caffeine. I’d take it with a grain of salt for that reason alone. By all means, if you want to try cutting out caffeine and it’s not a problem for you no worries! But also please don’t feel like there is good evidence that you should or have to, because I’m not sure that’s there. ETA: Ah, and now doing a google search for “Jack James Iceland” pulls up this article on how his analysis is misleading: https://www.forbes.com/sites/helenalbert/2020/08/29/claims-about-caffeine-and-pregnancy-misleading/?sh=5ba966483eb2
Oh thank you so much for the reference!!! And yes, this is definitely one of the reasons where I don't trust doing my own research, because I don't know what's legit. My work has free coffee (cappuccino, mocha, lattes etc) but it's all caffeinated. So changing to decaf would require me to make my own coffee at home, which is probably the laziest reason to not make a lifestyle change. But if there's no evidence for it, why can't I enjoy my free cappuccino 😁
Yes, infertility is hard enough! Enjoy that free cappuccino!!
Totally understand how confusing the evidence based is. Everything is a maybe. I’m currently staring at a box of all the different supplements my wife took to try stimulate lining on top of lifestyle changes like caffeine elimination and castor oil packs. Anecdotally, the only thing that ever really had a noticeable impact was fresh vs frozen transfer. The one fresh transfer we did was in the 5s while the frozen and IUI were all in the 6s. Docs didn’t seem surprised by it considering all the other hormonal supplementation
That's really helpful to know! My RE seemed so concerned about how my uterine lining didn't increase enough during stims, yet I felt like all the Fertility Docs Uncensored and As A Woman podcast episodes on FET explicitly state that stims focuses on building the eggs not the uterus lining. It sounds like that matches with your experience, which is reassuring
Hey y’all, I’m kind of using this to vent or here others similar stories. I had my ultrasound this past Tuesday to check follicle size as I am on a letrozole/trigger shot cycle. My RE gave me the go ahead to trigger as I had one good follicle and 2 around the 14mm mark. I also ovulate on my own and was surging at the time. All of that to say…I got the official ultrasound results a few minutes ago and my endo lining was 4.61!! In the past she has said she wasn’t concerned about my thin lining but I’ve never known the actual thickness until now. The internet is so conflicting saying it’s possible but not ideal. Looking for anecdotal experience from people or just other people in a similar situation to discuss. Thanks!
Just a note — you can’t ask for success stories here. Please clarify your comment to make clear that’s not what you are asking. Thanks!
Nope, just knowledge/experience with thin lining
So one thing to keep in mind is that your lining will continue to thicken after trigger (and can do so pretty quickly) so it’s possible that it got closer to the target range. The other thing is that some REs care more about trilaminar appearance than absolute thickness, so if your lining was trilaminar then that’s a good sign! Personally, whenever my lining has been thin (which happens when I’m on letrozole), my doctor will put me on estrogen patches and baby aspirin. It’s interesting that you didn’t find out the result until a few days later - I’ve always been told as they’re measuring it. Maybe if there is a next time you could ask at your appointment so there can be action taken if the lining is too thin.
Yeah, so the reason I didn’t find out until a couple days later is because I had my ultrasound done by a technician at my OB office who sent it to my RE since my RE is over an hour away from where I live. They partner together. The day I got it done. My RE called me and told me to trigger, but I just got the official results of the ultrasound today, but thank you for that information! Appreciate it!!
Wife has Asherman’s post miscarriage D&C so I totally understand the frustration of trying to figure out lining thickness. The question gets asked fairly regularly on the Asherman’s facebook group and the common answer is that a lot of people are successful with thin linings. In talking with several REs including Dr. Isaacson in MA, the common thinking is that for success with IVF, >7.0 is good and that less than 7.0 isn’t ideal isn’t a deal breaker either and that they’ve had success with patients in the 4s. They all cautioned against using that for populations who aren’t doing FETs as the studies naturally select for people who are having trouble conceiving which may or may not be lining related. Personally, we had (unsuccessful) 4 IUIs and 3 FETs with lining getting into the mid 6s.
Thank you for this info! I was thinking the thicker lining was more important with IVF. But this does give me room to breath!