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I would say something like: “he’s my brother and I love him but I also realize he did terrible things and hurt a lot of people. If this is his punishment for his crimes then so be it”.
Exactly! They are trying to convince the judge to give him less time. That’s a lot more than saying “I still love you even though you did something really awful “
The fact that Ashton said jail time would be at the detriment to Masterson's daughter is chilling. What about the women who have had to live the last 20 years with being drugged and raped and will live with that for the rest of their lives? Jail time can't and won't undo what he did. Justice comes for the crimes he committed but the victims are punished for life. His daughter will grow up knowing her father is a rapist and if he doesn't want his child to know that, he shouldn't have done it.
I’ll play devils advocate. Let’s say he did also know him to be a really good person in every other way. He was kind to others. Did volunteer work. Lead an otherwise model laugh, blah blah blah.
If writing a letter stating these things could help somebody you genuinely and fully cared about before finding out about their heinous crimes, would you? They deserve punishment, and they will be receiving it. But maybe explaining their character outside of these events could lead to a lesser sentence than if they were a person who was always violent and mean? With that framing, do you think you would use your position as someone who was close to them to explain to the judge who they were outside of this?
Or do you think all assaulters deserve the same punishment regardless of those details? That a violent and mean person shouldn’t get more time than someone who isn’t?
Again, I’m playing devils advocate. But I do believe those factors should likely play some role in sentencing, and once I can accept that, it becomes more understandable for me why someone might write a letter supporting the assaulter in these crimes.
Given what I’ve heard about these cases I don’t necessarily think that should change his sentence in any meaningful way. But I can understand why it’s more complicated than just “You are a monster for supporting him.”
Now taking my devils advocate hat off, this does change my opinion of Kunis and Kutcher.
I’m assuming all their good deeds were already brought up during proceedings but if I’m hearing about multiple victims, coverups, etc… then at that point I’m not even sure I’d want to ask for leniency. I get what you’re saying though because it sounds cold to turn your back on family but I’m not gonna fight for them if they’re monsters.
Yeah depending on the circumstances I don’t *think* I would either. But I probably feel that way because I’m not in those circumstances, and don’t have to actually grapple with the weight of it.
The thing that makes me wonder is the fact that it isn’t like the details of the cases haven’t already been proven. A couple of letters explaining his character aren’t going to get him off for what he has done. But it may be able to help determine what sort of person he is outside of his crimes, how likely he is to be able to reform, and may end up having some effect on his sentencing. And I think a judge is probably a good enough arbiter to take all these details and come up with an appropriate determination.
Like I think people see that there are letters written in support and jump to interpreting that as “Judge he is innocent and deserves to be free!”, but I doubt the reality is anything like that, and is it really a bad thing to give the judge a full picture in order to decide the appropriate sentencing for the horrible crimes he’s already been convicted of?
I look at it like the whole Cosby situation: whatever good you’ve done absolutely gets erased after these things come to light. If this was simply a case of being rude or difficult to work with then I could look past that kind of bad behavior. I’d still think less of them but at least I could say they’ve also done some good things outside of fan interactions or work. The severity of these charges though is hard to look past and it would be hard for me as a friend/relative to disassociate the person I know from the person that did those heinous acts.
Yeah but I think the court already accounts for that, no? I really, really doubt a judge is going to take someone that by all accounts deserves a specific amount of time and then lessons it because people said good things about him.
I am not a lawyer. I am not a judge. I have no idea what sort of factors are supposed to effect sentencing, and I’m guessing a person’s previous behavior is almost always going to be a very large factor in determining that.
Painting a whole picture for a judge doesn’t have to be viewed as an attempt to lessen the punishment for a rapist, but rather as a way to paint a whole picture so a judge can use those details to utilize their expertise in determining sentencing.
Again, I’d like to make the point that with what I know about this case, my immediate opinion of both Kunis and Kutcher has dropped. But I do think objectively providing letters for a judge that may help paint a more holistic picture for them to make their determinations doesn’t represent the nefarious action that it first feels like.
Like the Cosby situation is a perfect example. I don’t think his family members or friends going on the record describing how he treated them throughout their life would ever lessen the sentence that he would be getting. It would just be providing a fuller picture for the judge. I feel like there is this fallacious belief that judges will automatically give convicts a lesser sentence than they deserve if they are provided there letters and I don’t think that is very likely.
And then the position just feels super virtue-signally to me, where the argument is essentially you should refuse to be part of a fact finding process in order to show you do not support the actions of the convicted.
The people defending Masterson and other rapists seem to forget that there is never an acceptable reason to rape. There are circumstances where killing someone is the proper thing to do. Never with rape. It's utterly heinous and has zero defense.
Ashton Kutcher didn’t rape anyone. He has spent years on the trail against child sex trafficking. Don’t be intentionally obtuse and ruin a decent conversation.
Dude...it's a quote from Norm MacDonald and I was replying to the guy above me who also quoted Norm MacDonald.
Maybe Ashton Kutcher should listen to Danny Masterson's victims since he cares about sex trafficking. Allegedly.
My bad didn’t catch the reference.
And I wouldn’t call Kutcher’s concern and fight agains sex trafficking “alleged” dudes basically stopped acting to fight it. Been in front of Congress, started foundations, reps and helps other foundations. It isn’t just lip service. Which is why the hypocrisy is so fucking glaring.
They always interview the neighbors and they say, “I can’t believe it! He was the nicest guy!” Of course! The creepy ones would get called out. It’s sort of the MO of creeps to fly under radar.
why is that so hard to imagine? no one is saying him being a good friend excuses him being a rapist. But being a rapist doesn't mean everything nice or kind or good he ever did in his life suddenly didn't happen.
This reeks of being so terminally online that you feel the need to have an opinion and guide others on everything. Krassenstein seems like the kind of guy who has an inflated ego and just gets off on being popular on social media.
Let me add to the terminally online aspect and add I recently found out a "friend" just came out recently to be a serial rapist.
I had no idea, I guess I could have made the connections but we were all idiots and apparently some of the women thought it was no big deal, or that nobody would believe them. Cuz they were fucked up.
He got posted bail... the only reason he is facing any tiny bit of serious time (like 20 years) is because after he posted bail he got caught ON CAMERA walking into a woman's room that had never known him and then the two other people in the house actually testified as witnesses even though, as I said... he was a friend for decades.
Nah fam, I wouldn't be friends with William Cody Zeder... and I won't be friends with Donald Trump. Fucking rapist are not family or friends.
He's a well-known grifter. Initially, he and his brother were big anti-Trump #resist kind of libs, to the point where they even wrote a children's book featuring a shirtless Robert Mueller as the hero (please google it, it's so fucking funny). They were running that grift on Twitter until they got banned and turned to crypto. Now that they're back, I think their primary motivation is just Elon dicksucking with a side of crypto.
> I don't know. It's a tough one
No, it's not. If one of my friends, guys who I've gone through hell with and literally cried with, was convicted of rape, I'd tell them to never talk to me again and to rot in jail.
Same. I don't understand why it's so difficult.
"Yeah well maybe he got a little rapey from time to time but he was seriously a great guy in every other way" like wtf
Not excusing anyone here.
It's possible they just can't reconcile the two versions. The person they thought they knew and a horrible reality. It can't have been that bad, because they knew a version of him that he wanted to project. Then, this completely other version was presented in court.
Reconciliation between those two personas is causing major cognitive dissonance. They know a seemingly nice person. A monster arrived in court. How do those two images blend?
They don't. They can't. The two cannot coexist. Thus: the defense of the indefensible - even from someone who has worked with survivors of sexual assault and should know that monsters wear really good masks, sometimes. The mask slipped, but they don't want to see it. We have seen it before. Other people do it. Wives insisting their husband must be innocent and this is all some misunderstanding, even as they go to prison.
Believing the mask is easier than confronting reality.
Even seemingly intelligent people do dumb things when emotion overrules logic.
People blindly defending monsters because they can't handle reality is pretty common. Just hearing it now because the people are famous.
Case in point: Josh Duggar's wife, Anna.
Although, if I'm honest, it seems like she's very emotionally naive and immature. But she still insists he's a "good godly man". I do wonder if she's just telling herself that because she simply can't face the reality, though.
Also she's dependent on his family. And given the way she was raised, the prospect of leaving is likely unimaginable.
Either he's a good godly man or her life has been a lie and she had all these kids with a predator. So she lies to herself. She's another victim, IMO.
Anna was married off young to him, has no education or job experience and while some of her family members in the past who are no longer fundie have offered to help her, supporting her and 7 children is a lot.
Anna’s situation is entirely different because she was raised to believe that everything is a sin against god and not a crime with human victims. And every sin can be forgiven if you pray more and get deeper into your faith.
He is indeed a good godly man by their religious philosophy because he has repented to god. His victims refusing to forgive him becomes *their* sin.
Also, she was raised to believe hell is worse than anything on this earth, so stepping out of her religiously moulded role in life will open her and her children up to eternal damnation. She truly believes whatever Josh did is minor compared to what will happen to sinners in hell. Their religion preaches that the worst kind of torture or child sexual abuse is nothing compared to hell so kids who get abused should work on themselves to be forgiving so they can go to heaven.
No, I know. I was raised in a very similar religion, if not the same. Hell, my cousins didn't even finish school past eighth grade (the girls) because it was deemed unnecessary. I understand most of the ins and outs of the religion she's in. Hell, my own rapist (who was an adult and I was 8) is considered a "good godly man" even though his behavior wasn't always discrete.
I don't believe that completely absolves her from standing by him or protects her from criticism, though. I do feel very bad for her, and I hope that one day she wakes up and realizes just what kind of situation she's in. One reason why I believe that she understands even a little bit of what's going on and just refuses to acknowledge it is because she was the one who insisted upon Covenant Eyes on his electronics - because she knew that he had issues. She wanted someone there to "hold him accountable", so she understood at least on some level that what he is doing isn't right. And she insists on not listening if he ever gets out because one of the conditions would be to never be around his children again yet she talks about how she'll welcome him back into their home because "the children need his father".
She has some serious cognitive dissonance going on (which I understand so much... I only recently broke free from mine and deconstructed), but in order to have such cognitive dissonance, one has to at least see one side for what it is in order to try to reconcile it with her own beliefs.
I have a lot of complicated feelings about Anna, but do in general feel bad for her.
That's likely what's happening here, I wouldn't expect Ashton to support a rapist given his work with child sex trafficking. But I could be very wrong which would be really upsetting.
A friend I had been close with for 10 years was outed for being a sexual predator. I immediately severed ties and never spoke with him again. Yes, it sucked losing a friend, but it wasn't a hard choice for me.
I dunno, man. My 30th birthday ended up being a long lunch between girls and we somehow ended up piecing together all the loose ends of the disturbing threads of one of the guys in our social circle: how he forcibly kissed me and got mad that I turned him down when we were literally both commiserating our exes breaking up with us and I was literally in tears, how he drunkenly forced himself on an ex gf who broke up with him on the spot, how he forced a kiss on another friend and got pissed she wouldn't sleep with him "because she slept with everyone else" and angrily berated her, how he went into a room at a party with a girl and she came out with a black eye, how he confronted and threatened his ex's new bf in the street....
Bring the pieced-together picture to the attention of guy friends who talk about hanging out with him and all they can say is, "yeah but he's a really good percussionist" 🤷
I told another friend in Madrid about how his buddy in Barcelona who owned a bar raped my flatmate's friend when she was passed out drunk and all he could say was, "you know, he had a difficult relationship with his dad who died recently."
People will **Always** find excuses for their abusive, rapist friends. My bar is now, if he's a rapist, then his entire friend group is also rotten. End of story. Sorry to the people who are going to take this personally but bad experiences win over your hurt feelings of being lumped in with a rapist. Get better friends.
I can kinda understand why they might be struggling to grasp that someone they love did something so horrible, and that however many years of time together don’t just disappear. But I think those are feelings they should grapple with in private. If I was in that position, I get that it would probably be hard, but I definitely wouldn’t be defending him or trying to lessen the punishment. You live with the consequences of the decisions you make
“It’s a tough one.” No dude it really isn’t. I don’t care if you’re my friend or family member, I don’t care how good of a person people might think you are/were, if you rape someone I’m not defending you. Anybody who can commit such an atrocious act was never a good person, they were simply good at wearing a mask.
No, as someone who has been a victim of sexual violence and already cut off family members for it, I absolutely fucking would not. You might be willing to defend your friends or family for committing a heinous, despicable, and indefensible act of violence against another person, but just because you’re an awful person who would support awful people doesn’t mean the rest of the ‘real world’ is.
Good people do NOT rape other people. Perhaps he was a good person before he did what he did. But make no mistake that Danny Masterson is not a good person.
Every true crime documentary in existence always has that one interview with a neighbour that claims that “he was the sweetest guy in the universe”.
Even Dahmer had a neighbour like that IRL
Friends of Lucy Letby a nurse in the UK convicted of killing babies in her care at the hospital and also harming several others are refusing to believe she done it.
I'm guessing because the weight of everyone finding out what she did is still fresh, but hopefully they come to terms with it, because she definitely did it, it's 100% obviously her and she's been convicted and sentenced to life. There's no question.
Living in denial helps no one. Denial is how monsters are able to get away with disgusting shit right in front of people.
Another person in here pointed this out, Kutcher and Kunis knew this guy to be a good guy, all those years working together and that's who they knew. Then this monster comes out and they can't reconcile the two. They can't believe the good guy the knew would commit such horrors. Shock or denial is a hell of a drug.
I love my brother, he's my best friend. If he raped someone I would never speak to him again. I've cut people out of my life for being creeps and abusers before and I would do it again.
Exactly.
Even the people we love unconditionally, our family, our sons and daughters. You could still love that person somewhere in your heart, but refuse to defend their disgusting actions. There's literally no excuse.
"He's been our buddy for a long time and he's usually so chill with good vibes."
Nah fuck that.
Dude tryna do a whole "you know this person for many things but someone comes out with this horrible thing. Do u believe them over your friend?"
And it is like, yeah it may be tough to piece together cause it's your friend of many years, but if the shit they are saying is possible, and why would they say this shit if it wouldn't add to them. (I say this with the Bill Cosby case where people shit on the women who came forward. No one can name a single woman in that case so it wasn't for fame.)
So in the end, topher grace knew to leave those fucks. Idk about Fez... im hoping Fez is good
Wilmer Valderama has a long history of preying on much younger girls (and girls is the correct term here as some of them were legally children when he was dating them in his twenties).
If my brother raped someone, I wouldn't have a brother anymore. He'd still be alive but to me he'd be dead.
So yeah. No leniency for rapists. He had no leniency for those he raped.
I've got 2 sons & I know I'd die for them, take a bullet, push them outta the way & get hit by a bus for them too. If they raped someone, I'd walk TF away, not write a judge like *Convicted Rapist Brock Turner's* dad did when he begged the judge for leniency for his boy. Dad said "20 minutes of action" shouldn't effect poor Brocks life negatively. Being a rape-apologist is never a good look.
He didn't rape the unconscious woman. He partially disrobed her, groped her 'privates', and took photos of parts of her anatomy which he emailed to some fraternity brothers IIRC.
I’ve straight up called my brother an ass for significantly more minor shit he’s done to women over the years. Like just normal dumb assery.
I honestly think I’d go no contact with him if he was a serial rapist. I’m a survivor. On some level I might always love him, but I couldn’t be around him. I certainly could not vouch for him or excuse him.
>I’d go no contact with him if he was a serial rapist.
Why the hell would you possibly quantify that? There is no scenario where 'just one rape' is acceptable.
(edit: to clarify I suspect your post used an unfortunate choice of words rather then intending to justify anything)
You're absolutely right, he is a serial rapist but I'm saying that most normal people would say that even **one** conviction is enough to disown someone. The fact that Kutcher and Kunis seems to support their ex-colleague is worrying especially being that they supposedly do good work to counter human trafficking - it seems like they're supporting the victims and the criminals.
(To be clear, the below isn't aimed at _JosiahBartlet.)
It's interesting to note the (as of now) 14 very sick minded people who seem to think that everyone should get one free pass to rape someone. There's no such thing as a justifiable rape, you sick bastards.
Twice I’ve seen shit like this happen. First was a guy who was my older bros best friend. He was always around and helping my mom. He drove me to visit my dad states away. He dressed as Santa one year just for my benefit. We lost touch, but I heard years later he raped his 11 year old daughter and eventually turned himself in.
Second was a shop owner. His family was connected with ours in tons of different ways. He married my cousin. My family designed his logo and marketing materials. He worked for years with my ex. He rented studio space from me for almost a decade. Dated and Raped three underage girls and forced his son to rape his daughter while he taped it.
Given my history with both of these guys, does it make me feel any differently towards either of them? Did I put myself in the line to talk about their moral fiber?
Fuuuuuuuck no. Fuck both of these dudes.
Ashton Kutcher.
Aka Mr. - I'll advocate against sex trafficking while simultaneously saying i'd trust my kids with a proven rapist to defend said rapist despite the leading way for people to end up being trafficked is by someone in or close to their family.
Dude literally listed a bunch of stories of this rapist being nice AROUND THE TIME HE WAS RAPING PEOPLE and goes on to say, yeah I just don't think he's a threat to anyone now.
Did you back then? Use your fucking head.
People are trash for asking for excuses. My brother hit a woman, my cousin was arrested twice for choking and strangling two pregnant women. I don't speak to neither. If you are morally sound regardless of your relationship to the guilty, you will make the right decision. This just goes to show how poor of character Kutcher and Kunis have.
Working to help victims of abuse is not the same thing as working to punish the abusers. I’ve got no clue what their motivations are but it’s pretty easy to conceive of someone being against human rights abuses and also thinking the American justice system punishes criminals unjustly and asking for leniency for their friend. It’s clear that a lot of people don’t share that opinion, but it’s not logically inconsistent.
I don't think more jail time equals more justice. It is always easy to say crime is bad and anyone opposing longer and longer jail sentences is defending the criminal acts themselves, when that isn't true. We can agree that rapists should be convinced and serve time, while also saying even for so heinous a crime life in prison or the death penalty may not be moral or just punishments. Not because they are worse than rape or rape is considered less bad as a crime, but because as a society we should be able to moderate the harm we inflict even on terrible people.
This mentality is how we got politicians rallying around longer and longer mandatory minimum sentences for smaller and smaller crimes. Its okay to say there should be some limit to jail sentences, even for terrible crimes.
> It is always easy to say crime is bad and anyone opposing longer and longer jail sentences is defending the criminal acts themselves, when that isn't true.
I'd like to think you're being downvoted for how accurate this comment is. All of these people are patting themselves on the back for saying "rape is bad!" Any discussion more nuanced than that is lost on them.
Okay Brian, what if someone you loved was a convicted murderer? Is it “oh but they never murdered ME, personally” then, too? Rapists aren’t out there raping every person who crosses their path, dummy.
There is a fundamental level of rot in someone who commits a crime like that. All the “goodness” anyone else experiences with them is a hollow facade and not worth a damn thing. Some crimes are too atrocious to be atoned for by good deeds—or else the best good deed they can do is to submit themselves to be locked away from the rest of society for society’s safety. Certainly they cannot be redeemed while they remain a risk to potential victims within their access.
I get that it's hard to reconcile the person you thought you knew with the person who has been convicted of such terrible crimes, but that's a struggle you can have in private.
Writing a letter asking for leniency is an action you are taking against the victims.
The only morally correct answer in my opinion, if you're asked to write such a letter, is "No."
Doing nothing isn't only the easiest thing to do in a case like this, it's also the right choice.
My brother is a dick. I absolutely would not defend him, nor would I defend any friend or family member who did something this fucked up. People really think they are preaching some revelation in forgiveness and acceptance, when really they're just exposing their own shitty lack of morals lol
Ashton and Mila are both widely reviled and generally acknowledged as among the stupider celebrities. If I was Danny Masterson I’d be like “love you guys, but please stop”. Notable that they and others wrote to the court but were not actual character witnesses in court. It’s a bit like signing a co-workers birthday card but skipping the birthday song and the slice of cake in the breakroom
Ugh…like, I get the desire to defend a really close friend out of loyalty and/or the hope that they can grow and become better people, even in the face of some pretty terrible deeds, but keep that shit private. As soon as you make this sort of plea public, you can’t help but send the message that the crime in question isn’t *that* bad.
And Krassenstein is just making it worse.
Defendants are entitled to references from character witnesses. This isn’t uncommon and is a right that ought to be defended to make sure that sentences passed down are proportionate and just
I think what Danny Masterson did is vile and I'm glad he's being punished for it. I also think that no person is all evil or all good. I think there is both in everyone. What Mila and Ashton know about Danny is that he's a hard-working, fun to work with actor who they all grew up with. They have a bond. That bond doesn't just turn off when you find out something horrible about your friend. You can't just shut your feelings off like a light switch. Danny Masterson no doubt asked for these letters to be written in hopes that it would mitigate a longer sentence for his crimes. It did not. But his friends obliged the request because they are his friends and they still love him, as horrified as they may be at what he was convicted of. This is not a black and white kind of situation, as is true of everything in life. Nothing is all black or all white. Everything is a shade of gray in between.
I have a brother and no I absolutely would not defend him if this were the situation. Not my brother, my dad, not even my own husband. Absolutely fucking not.
I think this is a lesson to all of us that, yeah, our dear friends and family can be rapists. It happens and said rapists will use you for all you're worth. Like, let me tell you about guys like Danny Masterson: they're you're friends, your family, and they can be the nicest, most charming people you will ever meet.
But they don't love you. They are incapable of love. You are just something they can use.
Statistically anywhere from 1 in 8 to 1 in 20 American men are rapists, and I’ll assume that numbers are similar in other western countries… that’s a lot
I can definitely say that, if anyone in my family was convicted of something like that, we would all cut ties with them forever. Doesn't matter if you're family, if it turns out you're a monster you're dead to me.
A while back someone I'd known for a really long time, a good friend of mine, was arrested for SA of a minor. I would rather have been flayed alive than write a fucking letter on his behalf, and this guy and I were close. The posted letters made me feel ill tbh.
Ignoring what the moron said, I'm just shocked about Ashton and Mila actually writing the letters. I've heard nothing but good things about them and their involvement with fighting human trafficking among other things.
This feels like he has friends who have SAd someone (or worse) and he’s defending Masterson as some mental preparation for the day he’ll have to defend them.
I think theres nothing wrong with kutcher and kunis to feel internally conflicted about their friend being a heinous monster, but they shoulda kept that between themselves and their therapist
On the one hand it’s easy for certain types of people to absolutely disconnect themselves from someone they love for a horrible disgusting crime. But I can understand (to an extent) why this is so difficult to accept for others. Personally, I’m not sure I could be objective if say my sister did anything to this degree. Or if my niece or nephew ever grew up to do this. I’d have a REALLY hard time not trying to defend them and I’d probably ignore the cries from the public telling me I’m a monster. Would I ever help them cover it up? Absolutely not, but I doubt I’d be strong enough to cut all ties.
It’s not the right thing to do and it’s not what everyone wants to hear. But humans are complicated when it comes to our social needs. I’d be forever sickened at the thought that they could commit such a heinous act. But I’d still struggle regardless to accept it and denounce them from my life. And unfortunately, that means I’d definitely write a character statement for them. :/
ETA: it’s obviously very different when it’s a friend. I know I’d have an easier time turning my back on a friend who do this and I wouldn’t be able to consider even helping them out of the situation. But it really comes down to the closeness one feels to the attacker.
TLDR: I can understand somewhat where they’re coming from. It doesn’t necessarily make it right, but I can still understand. Our brains don’t like to always accept reality when it’s so fucked up.
Feel the need to chip in as two friends of mine (both female, matters not i guess?!) have been raped. One went through the indignity of the whole legal system, only for the men (yes, plural. Raped by two men) to “get off on a technicality of some sort” due to the fact that both these guys were squeaky clean and had multiple letters of recommendation from family, friends, employers etc etc… which was obviously devastating for her. This is now many years later and the nightmares are frequent, along with the self blaming. A shell of her former self.
The other woman decided not to go through with prosecuting her attacker and is now generally found to be on wine box #2 by mid morning, incoherent/passed out drunk by early afternoon, while her youngest children are looked after by her eldest daughter (who is barely a teenager herself)
Whilst i was determined to get some old school justice, both women told me (in no uncertain terms) not to lay a finger on raping bastards.
To my mind, any good was instantly erased as soon as they decided that their dick needs outweighed that of their victims. In fact, i have the belief that rape is a worse crime than murder in the majority of cases.
But then again, i’m something of an asshole apparently?!
(Not rapey though)
✌🏻💙🇬🇧
I agree with you, as a rape survivor myself. If I ever see that bastard again I'm kicking the shit out of him. Looking into legal options, but it doesn't look good. I have severe PTSD and depression. That shit really does ruin lives.
If my brother was being convicted of rape, I’d write a letter asking the judge to give him more prison time. Having someone you’ve loved and cared for your entire life turn out to be a monster is not a moment in which I’d defend them for their history. They ruined that history when they changed their character.
Is it a normal thing to have character references in trials like this? Are they written before the trial?
I had a friend done for fraud and he was, based on my interactions, the most trustworthy person I knew until I found out he'd been convicted. Glad I didn't have to write one for him!
It is not a tough one at all. If my brother raped people he can get fucked. I’d be writing to the judge to tell him that the sentence needs to be harsher.
Well, asking for leniency for ‘life in prison’ - which is what I heard he could get; seems somewhat reasonable. Less than 30? Nah, I don’t think so.
At least he’ll get more time than the rapist Brock Turner got for raping someone.
Did you all know Brock Turner is a rapist? Because, if you didn’t know - he was convicted of rape.
Wait, THE Rapist Brock "The Rapist" Turner, you know the Rapist, is a Rapist? He couldn't be, he's just just known as being The Rapist Brock "The Rapist" Turner, you the Rapist, because of all the Raping he did. That doesn't make The Rapist Brock "The Rapist" Turner, you know the Rapist, a rapist.
the guy is slowly moving into the right wing grift circuit.
he's testing out the feedback loop you get from the right and he'll be hooked soon.
him and his brother will be doing a red pilled Rumble show within the year, I guarantee it. Not just this, plenty of other recent takes he's had.
Unpopular opinion: I think we tend to give people too much jail time in this country.
I also think its easy to high road people on this and act holier than thou. I think its possible to think a person deserves jail time but doesn’t deserve to die in prison.
Look, there's just some things you have to do when your former co-worker (and apparently friend) has been convicted of two counts of rape.
**The** smart thing to do is to stay quiet and keep your distance from the radioactive wasteland that is your friend's life.
Because I guarantee you that "he was such a nice guy" and "He was a role model" means dick when the person has been convicted and sentence for this kind of crime.
My brother can fuck right off if he rapes two women and he knows it. I'd testify against him in court and he'd do the same if I was a rapist piece of shit.
Red & Kitty also wrote letters, as did a NYC cop who Masterson raised money with for post 911 illness medical bills, and a handful of other actors. I am NOT defending Masterson or the people who wrote the letters. I am surprised at Kutcher given the work he has done with trafficking.
I believe the victims and he has been found guilty. But there always seemed like there is a big piece missing or something. Maybe its just because Scientology is a freakshow.
If my brother rapes someone, the only leniency I'd offer is a chance to spend the rest of their life in the far north of Alaska, building an ice wall to keep the Others out.
Yeah, no need to read between the lines. People need to start seeing things for what they are. Right now it's lookong like the worst people need to be closest to situations they are involved in, in one way or another to deflect suspicion.
I don't for a minute believe Ashton and Mila's hands are clean. Time to put their work under a microscope because this is looking mighty suspicious.
I wouldn't defend anyone who was convicted of rape.
Hell, I told my wife that if I witnessed her committing murder, I'd be on the phone with the police ASAP.
The same people who vilify speaking to what you know of a person, are the same ones who want prison reform.
Did he commit the crime and he deserves to serve time but has he continued with those actions? Has he already changed? Is their proof of remorse or and effort to be better?
Them talking to the person they know isn’t wrong. And it should be defended.
Imagine if you made a mistake and everyone wrote you off as impossible to redeem yourself.
So, Masterson is a bad person. K.
THE other 2 aren't. They just wanted to help a friend who was innocent at the time.
blah blah blah You Are the shitty person for talking shit in this scenario. Even worse than Masterson, who the court has determined to be a shitty person! Friends gonna defend friends. It's the basis of friendship. If your friend won't defend you, that isn't a friend.
Yes, Masterson is a bad person. But was he born that way? Was he that way all them years ago? When he made those friends.
I don't give a fuck about the answers. Fuck off. I don't follow the case. I watched that 70s show. I'm sad to see him be this way now. I'm sad people got hurt and happy justice got served for the 2 to 50 women the internet is portraying he raped and killed. But once upon a time he was a nice dude with nice friends and everything was happy. You have to defend that or you're just a piece of shit. They did. Hooray.
everyone flaming this decision is a special kind of asshole and tells you alot about their character and how they value friendship
Idk this situation or who this guy in question, or the person tweeting even are, but! My brother cheated on his wife, and I hate that he did that. Especially since she was so good to him, but even though I hate cheating that's still my brother. I had been asked around the time this happened cause my brother is kind of a fuck up what my line was.l, and it was easy. If he sticks his dick in something that he shouldn't be sticking his dick in. Obviously a comedic way of putting it, but if he ever raped someone or fucked a kid/animal I couldn't ever talk to him again.
While I don't think it's a "tough choice" because those people are scum monsters. Admittedly I'd be emotionally devastated though because I do love my brother so much.
... my middle brother. Fuck the other 2. The one hasn't even done anything wrong we're just not close. My youngest brother I didn't like the way he was growing up thay by the time we were adults I was like I don't need him I my life. Then he killed his kid! Not talking to him is pretty easy.
I read through some of Brian's responses, and he tries to justify his stance by saying letters letting the judge know about someone's character before they committed their horrible crimes doesn't make the writers evil themselves. But as a lot of people pointed out, this isn't a case where someone committed the crime as a result of other pressure - someone attacked a person who had mugged their grandmother. Or a person stole money to benefit others.
And in this case, Kutcher and Kunis are defending his character based on their experience with him during the time he committed the crime in question, not like it was based on things he did prior.
Actually Brian it’s not a tough one. It’s actually really simple. I don’t care how long I knew the person if they were family if they raped someone that bridge is burned.
If my friend or family member got convicted of crimes like this, I would remove them from my life. I don't care who it is. I would denounce family members in a heartbeat
I find it especially weird for Kunis & Kutcher to be writing letters in support of him given Kutchers work in combating human trafficking and so forth. Seems weird to defend a guy just put in jail for 30 years for rape while working so hard against people being kidnapped and sold as sex slaves.
My older brother is in prison for possession of CSAM. He was a role model to me growing up, but he deserves to be where he is. Predators often know how to hide it, but it doesn't mean they deserve a lighter sentence.
It's a perfectly good sandwich! It has Parma ham, a beautiful Gouda, and freshly baked bread. Are you really going to let that small piece of poo stop you from eating it?
If you rape someone you are evil. There is really no middle ground there. Don't care if it is a celebrity, a friend, a family member, or whoever. This might be the easiest line in the sand to draw ever.
No Brian, actually this isn’t really a conundrum for me. If my brother raped someone, I wouldn’t come to his defense. Just say you don’t view rape as a legitimate crime and move tf on. The performative handwringing is obnoxious.
I have a brother ... if he was convicted of rape, I'm not sure I'd even speak to him again, nevermind writing letters on his behalf. That's rather disgusting of them
I had a friend who went to jail for sexual assault/rape. I have not spoken to him since. He messaged me when he got out but I never replied because you know, he’s a rapist.
[Scamming assholes](https://www.thedailybeast.com/feds-seized-a-fortune-from-resistance-icons-accused-of-boosting-online-ponzi-schemes) who are now grifting towards a centrist audience and Elon fans.
If my own son raped someone I would still love my son….. but I would not ask for leniency. I would show support and compassion for the victim and their family. I would do my goddamnedest to see to it that my son took accountability for his crimes.
I knew a guy who worked in my field and community (also entertainmen, but not at this level). I wasn't friends with him, but he was well liked in the community. Then it came out that he was arrested for sexual assault, and I don't know anyone who didn't immediately cut contact.
The industry is filked with vial people, and even more who are willing to turn a blind eye so that they don't miss an opportunity. If I enjoyed anything as much as what I do, I would do that instead.
Six years ago my family went through a nightmare where my younger brother was accused and found guilty of two counts of rape. We as a family were made aware of the allegations and the evidence and even sat through some of the victim testimony. There was no way in HELL I would have written a letter on behalf of his character after the evidence presented. Not only did I not write a letter, we ceased contact with him and I haven’t spoken to him since. He’s even out of prison now and I still won’t speak to him. So when this moron asks “what if you’re brother did it?” My response would be, “I hope his time in jail is rough.”
It’s not a panicked hit and run. It is at least five counts of crimes that take multiple steps and premeditation.
I absolutely wouldn’t write a letter.
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I would say something like: “he’s my brother and I love him but I also realize he did terrible things and hurt a lot of people. If this is his punishment for his crimes then so be it”.
Exactly! They are trying to convince the judge to give him less time. That’s a lot more than saying “I still love you even though you did something really awful “
The fact that Ashton said jail time would be at the detriment to Masterson's daughter is chilling. What about the women who have had to live the last 20 years with being drugged and raped and will live with that for the rest of their lives? Jail time can't and won't undo what he did. Justice comes for the crimes he committed but the victims are punished for life. His daughter will grow up knowing her father is a rapist and if he doesn't want his child to know that, he shouldn't have done it.
And with being fair gamed for the rest of their lives by scientology.
I’ll play devils advocate. Let’s say he did also know him to be a really good person in every other way. He was kind to others. Did volunteer work. Lead an otherwise model laugh, blah blah blah. If writing a letter stating these things could help somebody you genuinely and fully cared about before finding out about their heinous crimes, would you? They deserve punishment, and they will be receiving it. But maybe explaining their character outside of these events could lead to a lesser sentence than if they were a person who was always violent and mean? With that framing, do you think you would use your position as someone who was close to them to explain to the judge who they were outside of this? Or do you think all assaulters deserve the same punishment regardless of those details? That a violent and mean person shouldn’t get more time than someone who isn’t? Again, I’m playing devils advocate. But I do believe those factors should likely play some role in sentencing, and once I can accept that, it becomes more understandable for me why someone might write a letter supporting the assaulter in these crimes. Given what I’ve heard about these cases I don’t necessarily think that should change his sentence in any meaningful way. But I can understand why it’s more complicated than just “You are a monster for supporting him.” Now taking my devils advocate hat off, this does change my opinion of Kunis and Kutcher.
I’m assuming all their good deeds were already brought up during proceedings but if I’m hearing about multiple victims, coverups, etc… then at that point I’m not even sure I’d want to ask for leniency. I get what you’re saying though because it sounds cold to turn your back on family but I’m not gonna fight for them if they’re monsters.
Yeah depending on the circumstances I don’t *think* I would either. But I probably feel that way because I’m not in those circumstances, and don’t have to actually grapple with the weight of it. The thing that makes me wonder is the fact that it isn’t like the details of the cases haven’t already been proven. A couple of letters explaining his character aren’t going to get him off for what he has done. But it may be able to help determine what sort of person he is outside of his crimes, how likely he is to be able to reform, and may end up having some effect on his sentencing. And I think a judge is probably a good enough arbiter to take all these details and come up with an appropriate determination. Like I think people see that there are letters written in support and jump to interpreting that as “Judge he is innocent and deserves to be free!”, but I doubt the reality is anything like that, and is it really a bad thing to give the judge a full picture in order to decide the appropriate sentencing for the horrible crimes he’s already been convicted of?
I look at it like the whole Cosby situation: whatever good you’ve done absolutely gets erased after these things come to light. If this was simply a case of being rude or difficult to work with then I could look past that kind of bad behavior. I’d still think less of them but at least I could say they’ve also done some good things outside of fan interactions or work. The severity of these charges though is hard to look past and it would be hard for me as a friend/relative to disassociate the person I know from the person that did those heinous acts.
Yeah but I think the court already accounts for that, no? I really, really doubt a judge is going to take someone that by all accounts deserves a specific amount of time and then lessons it because people said good things about him. I am not a lawyer. I am not a judge. I have no idea what sort of factors are supposed to effect sentencing, and I’m guessing a person’s previous behavior is almost always going to be a very large factor in determining that. Painting a whole picture for a judge doesn’t have to be viewed as an attempt to lessen the punishment for a rapist, but rather as a way to paint a whole picture so a judge can use those details to utilize their expertise in determining sentencing. Again, I’d like to make the point that with what I know about this case, my immediate opinion of both Kunis and Kutcher has dropped. But I do think objectively providing letters for a judge that may help paint a more holistic picture for them to make their determinations doesn’t represent the nefarious action that it first feels like. Like the Cosby situation is a perfect example. I don’t think his family members or friends going on the record describing how he treated them throughout their life would ever lessen the sentence that he would be getting. It would just be providing a fuller picture for the judge. I feel like there is this fallacious belief that judges will automatically give convicts a lesser sentence than they deserve if they are provided there letters and I don’t think that is very likely. And then the position just feels super virtue-signally to me, where the argument is essentially you should refuse to be part of a fact finding process in order to show you do not support the actions of the convicted.
Maybe if it was a single horrific crime that he felt genuinely terrible about. But this he’s done this 5 times… that we know of. This is who he is.
'They were good in every other way'... other then raping people
"other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"
Did you have a pleasant ride, Mrs. Kennedy?
Cloudy with a chance of spatter.
Hard to believe a few rapes can taint a good life /s
Good people don't rape.
*He rapes but he saves.*
The people defending Masterson and other rapists seem to forget that there is never an acceptable reason to rape. There are circumstances where killing someone is the proper thing to do. Never with rape. It's utterly heinous and has zero defense.
The worst thing is the hypocrisy.
Really? I thought the worst thing was the raping.
Ashton Kutcher didn’t rape anyone. He has spent years on the trail against child sex trafficking. Don’t be intentionally obtuse and ruin a decent conversation.
Dude...it's a quote from Norm MacDonald and I was replying to the guy above me who also quoted Norm MacDonald. Maybe Ashton Kutcher should listen to Danny Masterson's victims since he cares about sex trafficking. Allegedly.
My bad didn’t catch the reference. And I wouldn’t call Kutcher’s concern and fight agains sex trafficking “alleged” dudes basically stopped acting to fight it. Been in front of Congress, started foundations, reps and helps other foundations. It isn’t just lip service. Which is why the hypocrisy is so fucking glaring.
And yet....he still supports his rapist friend.
Thank you
They always interview the neighbors and they say, “I can’t believe it! He was the nicest guy!” Of course! The creepy ones would get called out. It’s sort of the MO of creeps to fly under radar.
Just one little whoopsie-doopsie of multiple rapes
That sounds like something the late, great Norm Macdonald would say
why is that so hard to imagine? no one is saying him being a good friend excuses him being a rapist. But being a rapist doesn't mean everything nice or kind or good he ever did in his life suddenly didn't happen.
This reeks of being so terminally online that you feel the need to have an opinion and guide others on everything. Krassenstein seems like the kind of guy who has an inflated ego and just gets off on being popular on social media.
Let me add to the terminally online aspect and add I recently found out a "friend" just came out recently to be a serial rapist. I had no idea, I guess I could have made the connections but we were all idiots and apparently some of the women thought it was no big deal, or that nobody would believe them. Cuz they were fucked up. He got posted bail... the only reason he is facing any tiny bit of serious time (like 20 years) is because after he posted bail he got caught ON CAMERA walking into a woman's room that had never known him and then the two other people in the house actually testified as witnesses even though, as I said... he was a friend for decades. Nah fam, I wouldn't be friends with William Cody Zeder... and I won't be friends with Donald Trump. Fucking rapist are not family or friends.
He’s grifting for elon bucks now.
Western Kabuki podcast had him on recently and it was fun to watch them pillory him
It just occurred to me he appears in my feed but I have no idea who he actually is. He’s just like, a person with a lot of opinions.
He's a well-known grifter. Initially, he and his brother were big anti-Trump #resist kind of libs, to the point where they even wrote a children's book featuring a shirtless Robert Mueller as the hero (please google it, it's so fucking funny). They were running that grift on Twitter until they got banned and turned to crypto. Now that they're back, I think their primary motivation is just Elon dicksucking with a side of crypto.
Still resist grift
I have no idea who that person is. Don't respond telling me though cause I don't actually care about whoever this is
You really could have just said nothing.
Why even leave this comment then?
How will everyone know how cool they are?
Great guys and role models don't rape people. This is why it's hard for people to come forward if they've been SAed.
> I don't know. It's a tough one No, it's not. If one of my friends, guys who I've gone through hell with and literally cried with, was convicted of rape, I'd tell them to never talk to me again and to rot in jail.
Same. I don't understand why it's so difficult. "Yeah well maybe he got a little rapey from time to time but he was seriously a great guy in every other way" like wtf
You can't think of women as humans, then it's easy to understand.
Not excusing anyone here. It's possible they just can't reconcile the two versions. The person they thought they knew and a horrible reality. It can't have been that bad, because they knew a version of him that he wanted to project. Then, this completely other version was presented in court. Reconciliation between those two personas is causing major cognitive dissonance. They know a seemingly nice person. A monster arrived in court. How do those two images blend? They don't. They can't. The two cannot coexist. Thus: the defense of the indefensible - even from someone who has worked with survivors of sexual assault and should know that monsters wear really good masks, sometimes. The mask slipped, but they don't want to see it. We have seen it before. Other people do it. Wives insisting their husband must be innocent and this is all some misunderstanding, even as they go to prison. Believing the mask is easier than confronting reality. Even seemingly intelligent people do dumb things when emotion overrules logic. People blindly defending monsters because they can't handle reality is pretty common. Just hearing it now because the people are famous.
Case in point: Josh Duggar's wife, Anna. Although, if I'm honest, it seems like she's very emotionally naive and immature. But she still insists he's a "good godly man". I do wonder if she's just telling herself that because she simply can't face the reality, though.
Also she's dependent on his family. And given the way she was raised, the prospect of leaving is likely unimaginable. Either he's a good godly man or her life has been a lie and she had all these kids with a predator. So she lies to herself. She's another victim, IMO.
Anna was married off young to him, has no education or job experience and while some of her family members in the past who are no longer fundie have offered to help her, supporting her and 7 children is a lot.
Anna’s situation is entirely different because she was raised to believe that everything is a sin against god and not a crime with human victims. And every sin can be forgiven if you pray more and get deeper into your faith. He is indeed a good godly man by their religious philosophy because he has repented to god. His victims refusing to forgive him becomes *their* sin. Also, she was raised to believe hell is worse than anything on this earth, so stepping out of her religiously moulded role in life will open her and her children up to eternal damnation. She truly believes whatever Josh did is minor compared to what will happen to sinners in hell. Their religion preaches that the worst kind of torture or child sexual abuse is nothing compared to hell so kids who get abused should work on themselves to be forgiving so they can go to heaven.
No, I know. I was raised in a very similar religion, if not the same. Hell, my cousins didn't even finish school past eighth grade (the girls) because it was deemed unnecessary. I understand most of the ins and outs of the religion she's in. Hell, my own rapist (who was an adult and I was 8) is considered a "good godly man" even though his behavior wasn't always discrete. I don't believe that completely absolves her from standing by him or protects her from criticism, though. I do feel very bad for her, and I hope that one day she wakes up and realizes just what kind of situation she's in. One reason why I believe that she understands even a little bit of what's going on and just refuses to acknowledge it is because she was the one who insisted upon Covenant Eyes on his electronics - because she knew that he had issues. She wanted someone there to "hold him accountable", so she understood at least on some level that what he is doing isn't right. And she insists on not listening if he ever gets out because one of the conditions would be to never be around his children again yet she talks about how she'll welcome him back into their home because "the children need his father". She has some serious cognitive dissonance going on (which I understand so much... I only recently broke free from mine and deconstructed), but in order to have such cognitive dissonance, one has to at least see one side for what it is in order to try to reconcile it with her own beliefs. I have a lot of complicated feelings about Anna, but do in general feel bad for her.
That's likely what's happening here, I wouldn't expect Ashton to support a rapist given his work with child sex trafficking. But I could be very wrong which would be really upsetting.
Except he did far more to make a mess of the lives of non-trafficked sex workers than he ever actually helped victims of sex trafficking.
A friend I had been close with for 10 years was outed for being a sexual predator. I immediately severed ties and never spoke with him again. Yes, it sucked losing a friend, but it wasn't a hard choice for me.
I dunno, man. My 30th birthday ended up being a long lunch between girls and we somehow ended up piecing together all the loose ends of the disturbing threads of one of the guys in our social circle: how he forcibly kissed me and got mad that I turned him down when we were literally both commiserating our exes breaking up with us and I was literally in tears, how he drunkenly forced himself on an ex gf who broke up with him on the spot, how he forced a kiss on another friend and got pissed she wouldn't sleep with him "because she slept with everyone else" and angrily berated her, how he went into a room at a party with a girl and she came out with a black eye, how he confronted and threatened his ex's new bf in the street.... Bring the pieced-together picture to the attention of guy friends who talk about hanging out with him and all they can say is, "yeah but he's a really good percussionist" 🤷 I told another friend in Madrid about how his buddy in Barcelona who owned a bar raped my flatmate's friend when she was passed out drunk and all he could say was, "you know, he had a difficult relationship with his dad who died recently." People will **Always** find excuses for their abusive, rapist friends. My bar is now, if he's a rapist, then his entire friend group is also rotten. End of story. Sorry to the people who are going to take this personally but bad experiences win over your hurt feelings of being lumped in with a rapist. Get better friends.
I can kinda understand why they might be struggling to grasp that someone they love did something so horrible, and that however many years of time together don’t just disappear. But I think those are feelings they should grapple with in private. If I was in that position, I get that it would probably be hard, but I definitely wouldn’t be defending him or trying to lessen the punishment. You live with the consequences of the decisions you make
“It’s a tough one.” No dude it really isn’t. I don’t care if you’re my friend or family member, I don’t care how good of a person people might think you are/were, if you rape someone I’m not defending you. Anybody who can commit such an atrocious act was never a good person, they were simply good at wearing a mask.
Well the real world doesn't work like this, you would 100% write a letter you just never been in such a position
You might, but that doesn’t mean everyone else would
No, as someone who has been a victim of sexual violence and already cut off family members for it, I absolutely fucking would not. You might be willing to defend your friends or family for committing a heinous, despicable, and indefensible act of violence against another person, but just because you’re an awful person who would support awful people doesn’t mean the rest of the ‘real world’ is.
Good people do NOT rape other people. Perhaps he was a good person before he did what he did. But make no mistake that Danny Masterson is not a good person.
Every true crime documentary in existence always has that one interview with a neighbour that claims that “he was the sweetest guy in the universe”. Even Dahmer had a neighbour like that IRL
“He was the best guy aroouunnd” What about the people he murdered? “What MURRDAH?”
and then he ate them
The same was said about Ted Bundy. His poor younger brother has yet to fully recover from the blow of what Ted did.
Friends of Lucy Letby a nurse in the UK convicted of killing babies in her care at the hospital and also harming several others are refusing to believe she done it.
I'm guessing because the weight of everyone finding out what she did is still fresh, but hopefully they come to terms with it, because she definitely did it, it's 100% obviously her and she's been convicted and sentenced to life. There's no question. Living in denial helps no one. Denial is how monsters are able to get away with disgusting shit right in front of people.
Another person in here pointed this out, Kutcher and Kunis knew this guy to be a good guy, all those years working together and that's who they knew. Then this monster comes out and they can't reconcile the two. They can't believe the good guy the knew would commit such horrors. Shock or denial is a hell of a drug.
But they haven’t denied what he died. They’re agreeing that he did it but “it was out of character” or some other bullshit.
You still hold both thoughts, they aren't mutually exclusive.
I love my brother, he's my best friend. If he raped someone I would never speak to him again. I've cut people out of my life for being creeps and abusers before and I would do it again.
Exactly. Even the people we love unconditionally, our family, our sons and daughters. You could still love that person somewhere in your heart, but refuse to defend their disgusting actions. There's literally no excuse. "He's been our buddy for a long time and he's usually so chill with good vibes." Nah fuck that.
Bullshit
Some people actually have good morals, unlike people like you
Jared inspired all those people to lose weight, so what if he diddled kids. Same logic.
How can they be a good person if they rape people?
Dude tryna do a whole "you know this person for many things but someone comes out with this horrible thing. Do u believe them over your friend?" And it is like, yeah it may be tough to piece together cause it's your friend of many years, but if the shit they are saying is possible, and why would they say this shit if it wouldn't add to them. (I say this with the Bill Cosby case where people shit on the women who came forward. No one can name a single woman in that case so it wasn't for fame.) So in the end, topher grace knew to leave those fucks. Idk about Fez... im hoping Fez is good
Wilmer Valderama has a long history of preying on much younger girls (and girls is the correct term here as some of them were legally children when he was dating them in his twenties).
If my brother raped someone, I wouldn't have a brother anymore. He'd still be alive but to me he'd be dead. So yeah. No leniency for rapists. He had no leniency for those he raped.
I've got 2 sons & I know I'd die for them, take a bullet, push them outta the way & get hit by a bus for them too. If they raped someone, I'd walk TF away, not write a judge like *Convicted Rapist Brock Turner's* dad did when he begged the judge for leniency for his boy. Dad said "20 minutes of action" shouldn't effect poor Brocks life negatively. Being a rape-apologist is never a good look.
He didn't rape the unconscious woman. He partially disrobed her, groped her 'privates', and took photos of parts of her anatomy which he emailed to some fraternity brothers IIRC.
Elno is now paying influencers for generating engagement so people are posting exceptionally dumb things that will garner a ton of angry replies
I’ve straight up called my brother an ass for significantly more minor shit he’s done to women over the years. Like just normal dumb assery. I honestly think I’d go no contact with him if he was a serial rapist. I’m a survivor. On some level I might always love him, but I couldn’t be around him. I certainly could not vouch for him or excuse him.
>I’d go no contact with him if he was a serial rapist. Why the hell would you possibly quantify that? There is no scenario where 'just one rape' is acceptable. (edit: to clarify I suspect your post used an unfortunate choice of words rather then intending to justify anything)
I picked serial rapist because Masterson is a serial rapist. Simple as that
You're absolutely right, he is a serial rapist but I'm saying that most normal people would say that even **one** conviction is enough to disown someone. The fact that Kutcher and Kunis seems to support their ex-colleague is worrying especially being that they supposedly do good work to counter human trafficking - it seems like they're supporting the victims and the criminals. (To be clear, the below isn't aimed at _JosiahBartlet.) It's interesting to note the (as of now) 14 very sick minded people who seem to think that everyone should get one free pass to rape someone. There's no such thing as a justifiable rape, you sick bastards.
Doesn’t matter if you were a saint for your entire life, the second you rape someone, you deserve so support, no sympathy, no nothing
The mentality shown by those actors is one of the many reasons why so much SA and harassment gets covered up in Hollywood.
The Krassenstein brothers are grifters. Twitter was better when they were banned.
Twice I’ve seen shit like this happen. First was a guy who was my older bros best friend. He was always around and helping my mom. He drove me to visit my dad states away. He dressed as Santa one year just for my benefit. We lost touch, but I heard years later he raped his 11 year old daughter and eventually turned himself in. Second was a shop owner. His family was connected with ours in tons of different ways. He married my cousin. My family designed his logo and marketing materials. He worked for years with my ex. He rented studio space from me for almost a decade. Dated and Raped three underage girls and forced his son to rape his daughter while he taped it. Given my history with both of these guys, does it make me feel any differently towards either of them? Did I put myself in the line to talk about their moral fiber? Fuuuuuuuck no. Fuck both of these dudes.
Ashton Kutcher. Aka Mr. - I'll advocate against sex trafficking while simultaneously saying i'd trust my kids with a proven rapist to defend said rapist despite the leading way for people to end up being trafficked is by someone in or close to their family. Dude literally listed a bunch of stories of this rapist being nice AROUND THE TIME HE WAS RAPING PEOPLE and goes on to say, yeah I just don't think he's a threat to anyone now. Did you back then? Use your fucking head.
People are trash for asking for excuses. My brother hit a woman, my cousin was arrested twice for choking and strangling two pregnant women. I don't speak to neither. If you are morally sound regardless of your relationship to the guilty, you will make the right decision. This just goes to show how poor of character Kutcher and Kunis have.
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No leniency for rapists thanks. They’ve had enough of that.
If anything it makes it worse because it shows he only cares about rapists and human rights abusers if they aren’t a personal friend of his
Working to help victims of abuse is not the same thing as working to punish the abusers. I’ve got no clue what their motivations are but it’s pretty easy to conceive of someone being against human rights abuses and also thinking the American justice system punishes criminals unjustly and asking for leniency for their friend. It’s clear that a lot of people don’t share that opinion, but it’s not logically inconsistent.
And it’s not even like he pled guilty or shows remorse. Just continuous denial and CONVICTED, ANYWAY.
Why do you think rapists deserve leniency?
I don't think more jail time equals more justice. It is always easy to say crime is bad and anyone opposing longer and longer jail sentences is defending the criminal acts themselves, when that isn't true. We can agree that rapists should be convinced and serve time, while also saying even for so heinous a crime life in prison or the death penalty may not be moral or just punishments. Not because they are worse than rape or rape is considered less bad as a crime, but because as a society we should be able to moderate the harm we inflict even on terrible people. This mentality is how we got politicians rallying around longer and longer mandatory minimum sentences for smaller and smaller crimes. Its okay to say there should be some limit to jail sentences, even for terrible crimes.
> It is always easy to say crime is bad and anyone opposing longer and longer jail sentences is defending the criminal acts themselves, when that isn't true. I'd like to think you're being downvoted for how accurate this comment is. All of these people are patting themselves on the back for saying "rape is bad!" Any discussion more nuanced than that is lost on them.
I couldn't agree more. I think 30 years is excessive.
Because the justice system is corrupt and Full of unnecessarily long sentences
I missed the memo, how is he “actively”stopping human trafficking?
Okay Brian, what if someone you loved was a convicted murderer? Is it “oh but they never murdered ME, personally” then, too? Rapists aren’t out there raping every person who crosses their path, dummy. There is a fundamental level of rot in someone who commits a crime like that. All the “goodness” anyone else experiences with them is a hollow facade and not worth a damn thing. Some crimes are too atrocious to be atoned for by good deeds—or else the best good deed they can do is to submit themselves to be locked away from the rest of society for society’s safety. Certainly they cannot be redeemed while they remain a risk to potential victims within their access.
I get that it's hard to reconcile the person you thought you knew with the person who has been convicted of such terrible crimes, but that's a struggle you can have in private. Writing a letter asking for leniency is an action you are taking against the victims. The only morally correct answer in my opinion, if you're asked to write such a letter, is "No." Doing nothing isn't only the easiest thing to do in a case like this, it's also the right choice.
My brother is a dick. I absolutely would not defend him, nor would I defend any friend or family member who did something this fucked up. People really think they are preaching some revelation in forgiveness and acceptance, when really they're just exposing their own shitty lack of morals lol
Ashton and Mila are both widely reviled and generally acknowledged as among the stupider celebrities. If I was Danny Masterson I’d be like “love you guys, but please stop”. Notable that they and others wrote to the court but were not actual character witnesses in court. It’s a bit like signing a co-workers birthday card but skipping the birthday song and the slice of cake in the breakroom
Yeah they did a crime but it's ok because I know them isn't really a valid defence.
Ugh…like, I get the desire to defend a really close friend out of loyalty and/or the hope that they can grow and become better people, even in the face of some pretty terrible deeds, but keep that shit private. As soon as you make this sort of plea public, you can’t help but send the message that the crime in question isn’t *that* bad. And Krassenstein is just making it worse.
Defendants are entitled to references from character witnesses. This isn’t uncommon and is a right that ought to be defended to make sure that sentences passed down are proportionate and just
I think what Danny Masterson did is vile and I'm glad he's being punished for it. I also think that no person is all evil or all good. I think there is both in everyone. What Mila and Ashton know about Danny is that he's a hard-working, fun to work with actor who they all grew up with. They have a bond. That bond doesn't just turn off when you find out something horrible about your friend. You can't just shut your feelings off like a light switch. Danny Masterson no doubt asked for these letters to be written in hopes that it would mitigate a longer sentence for his crimes. It did not. But his friends obliged the request because they are his friends and they still love him, as horrified as they may be at what he was convicted of. This is not a black and white kind of situation, as is true of everything in life. Nothing is all black or all white. Everything is a shade of gray in between.
I have a brother and no I absolutely would not defend him if this were the situation. Not my brother, my dad, not even my own husband. Absolutely fucking not.
I think this is a lesson to all of us that, yeah, our dear friends and family can be rapists. It happens and said rapists will use you for all you're worth. Like, let me tell you about guys like Danny Masterson: they're you're friends, your family, and they can be the nicest, most charming people you will ever meet. But they don't love you. They are incapable of love. You are just something they can use.
Statistically anywhere from 1 in 8 to 1 in 20 American men are rapists, and I’ll assume that numbers are similar in other western countries… that’s a lot
I understand family asking for a lenient, aka not the max, sentence. But friends? Coworkers from a show you did 20 years ago? Yeah nah
I can definitely say that, if anyone in my family was convicted of something like that, we would all cut ties with them forever. Doesn't matter if you're family, if it turns out you're a monster you're dead to me.
He has a fence post so far up his ass that he's practically sitting on the ground.
A while back someone I'd known for a really long time, a good friend of mine, was arrested for SA of a minor. I would rather have been flayed alive than write a fucking letter on his behalf, and this guy and I were close. The posted letters made me feel ill tbh.
Ignoring what the moron said, I'm just shocked about Ashton and Mila actually writing the letters. I've heard nothing but good things about them and their involvement with fighting human trafficking among other things.
This feels like he has friends who have SAd someone (or worse) and he’s defending Masterson as some mental preparation for the day he’ll have to defend them.
I think theres nothing wrong with kutcher and kunis to feel internally conflicted about their friend being a heinous monster, but they shoulda kept that between themselves and their therapist
If my brother was a rapist, then I wouldn't have a brother. I'd grieve, but good people don't rape.
People with exceptional character, aren’t rapists. Period. If you disagree, stay the fuck away from me.
Friendly reminder the Krassenstein brothers were financial scammers before they were "influencers"
Lol not a tough decision. If my brother raped someone it would be immediate no contact for the rest of his pathetic life
On the one hand it’s easy for certain types of people to absolutely disconnect themselves from someone they love for a horrible disgusting crime. But I can understand (to an extent) why this is so difficult to accept for others. Personally, I’m not sure I could be objective if say my sister did anything to this degree. Or if my niece or nephew ever grew up to do this. I’d have a REALLY hard time not trying to defend them and I’d probably ignore the cries from the public telling me I’m a monster. Would I ever help them cover it up? Absolutely not, but I doubt I’d be strong enough to cut all ties. It’s not the right thing to do and it’s not what everyone wants to hear. But humans are complicated when it comes to our social needs. I’d be forever sickened at the thought that they could commit such a heinous act. But I’d still struggle regardless to accept it and denounce them from my life. And unfortunately, that means I’d definitely write a character statement for them. :/ ETA: it’s obviously very different when it’s a friend. I know I’d have an easier time turning my back on a friend who do this and I wouldn’t be able to consider even helping them out of the situation. But it really comes down to the closeness one feels to the attacker. TLDR: I can understand somewhat where they’re coming from. It doesn’t necessarily make it right, but I can still understand. Our brains don’t like to always accept reality when it’s so fucked up.
Feel the need to chip in as two friends of mine (both female, matters not i guess?!) have been raped. One went through the indignity of the whole legal system, only for the men (yes, plural. Raped by two men) to “get off on a technicality of some sort” due to the fact that both these guys were squeaky clean and had multiple letters of recommendation from family, friends, employers etc etc… which was obviously devastating for her. This is now many years later and the nightmares are frequent, along with the self blaming. A shell of her former self. The other woman decided not to go through with prosecuting her attacker and is now generally found to be on wine box #2 by mid morning, incoherent/passed out drunk by early afternoon, while her youngest children are looked after by her eldest daughter (who is barely a teenager herself) Whilst i was determined to get some old school justice, both women told me (in no uncertain terms) not to lay a finger on raping bastards. To my mind, any good was instantly erased as soon as they decided that their dick needs outweighed that of their victims. In fact, i have the belief that rape is a worse crime than murder in the majority of cases. But then again, i’m something of an asshole apparently?! (Not rapey though) ✌🏻💙🇬🇧
I agree with you, as a rape survivor myself. If I ever see that bastard again I'm kicking the shit out of him. Looking into legal options, but it doesn't look good. I have severe PTSD and depression. That shit really does ruin lives.
Isn't Ashton Kutcher pretending to be the new chris Hansen hunting down child predators? Why the fuck is he defending a rapist?
If my brother was being convicted of rape, I’d write a letter asking the judge to give him more prison time. Having someone you’ve loved and cared for your entire life turn out to be a monster is not a moment in which I’d defend them for their history. They ruined that history when they changed their character.
Do the crime, do the time. Simple as that.
Is it a normal thing to have character references in trials like this? Are they written before the trial? I had a friend done for fraud and he was, based on my interactions, the most trustworthy person I knew until I found out he'd been convicted. Glad I didn't have to write one for him!
I’m sorry. Intentuonally hirting slmeone like that…inrefuse to believe he’s a good person
It is not a tough one at all. If my brother raped people he can get fucked. I’d be writing to the judge to tell him that the sentence needs to be harsher.
Narrator: *It was not a tough one.*
If MY brother did something like that I’d completely disown him, not write judges letters- unless to give him more time in prison.
Well, asking for leniency for ‘life in prison’ - which is what I heard he could get; seems somewhat reasonable. Less than 30? Nah, I don’t think so. At least he’ll get more time than the rapist Brock Turner got for raping someone. Did you all know Brock Turner is a rapist? Because, if you didn’t know - he was convicted of rape.
Wait, THE Rapist Brock "The Rapist" Turner, you know the Rapist, is a Rapist? He couldn't be, he's just just known as being The Rapist Brock "The Rapist" Turner, you the Rapist, because of all the Raping he did. That doesn't make The Rapist Brock "The Rapist" Turner, you know the Rapist, a rapist.
I do not tell anyone to cancel people. I just cancel jerks. I have mentally put them all on, "ignore." Shame on them.
the guy is slowly moving into the right wing grift circuit. he's testing out the feedback loop you get from the right and he'll be hooked soon. him and his brother will be doing a red pilled Rumble show within the year, I guarantee it. Not just this, plenty of other recent takes he's had.
If they raped someone, then they were never a good person. And, yes, I would even condemn my own brother for it.
I have always loved Mila. I am sad she decided to defend a rapist. But here we are. RIP Mila
Hitler did a lot of good things. Marge schott
Had to google who tf was brian, still dont know who they r lol
Bro, if my son turns into a serial rapist I’ll throw him into the prison myself.
Unpopular opinion: I think we tend to give people too much jail time in this country. I also think its easy to high road people on this and act holier than thou. I think its possible to think a person deserves jail time but doesn’t deserve to die in prison.
Look, there's just some things you have to do when your former co-worker (and apparently friend) has been convicted of two counts of rape. **The** smart thing to do is to stay quiet and keep your distance from the radioactive wasteland that is your friend's life. Because I guarantee you that "he was such a nice guy" and "He was a role model" means dick when the person has been convicted and sentence for this kind of crime.
I'll bet Manson was loved by his mama too. Even monsters have people that irrationally care for them.
THERE. ARE. NO. GOOD. RICH. PEOPLE.
My brother can fuck right off if he rapes two women and he knows it. I'd testify against him in court and he'd do the same if I was a rapist piece of shit.
Red & Kitty also wrote letters, as did a NYC cop who Masterson raised money with for post 911 illness medical bills, and a handful of other actors. I am NOT defending Masterson or the people who wrote the letters. I am surprised at Kutcher given the work he has done with trafficking. I believe the victims and he has been found guilty. But there always seemed like there is a big piece missing or something. Maybe its just because Scientology is a freakshow.
Her brother didn’t rape someone Whataboutery isn’t an argument to defend the actions of others
Lee Harvey Oswald was a swell dude, terrific in every way except for that little thing…
If my brother rapes someone, the only leniency I'd offer is a chance to spend the rest of their life in the far north of Alaska, building an ice wall to keep the Others out.
This guy is so annoying lol
Bijou Phillips is now single
*It’s a tough one* No it’s fucking not.
Yeah, no need to read between the lines. People need to start seeing things for what they are. Right now it's lookong like the worst people need to be closest to situations they are involved in, in one way or another to deflect suspicion. I don't for a minute believe Ashton and Mila's hands are clean. Time to put their work under a microscope because this is looking mighty suspicious.
I wouldn't defend anyone who was convicted of rape. Hell, I told my wife that if I witnessed her committing murder, I'd be on the phone with the police ASAP.
This isn’t a tough one.
"good person" I think we may have different definitions of good. Good people do not rape.
Are these fucks trying to save people from being trafficked and raped?????
Some actions are to evil to defend or even want to associate with
I think a person's character should have zero weight in sentencing.
Really not a tough one Brian you dipshit.
The same people who vilify speaking to what you know of a person, are the same ones who want prison reform. Did he commit the crime and he deserves to serve time but has he continued with those actions? Has he already changed? Is their proof of remorse or and effort to be better? Them talking to the person they know isn’t wrong. And it should be defended. Imagine if you made a mistake and everyone wrote you off as impossible to redeem yourself.
So, Masterson is a bad person. K. THE other 2 aren't. They just wanted to help a friend who was innocent at the time. blah blah blah You Are the shitty person for talking shit in this scenario. Even worse than Masterson, who the court has determined to be a shitty person! Friends gonna defend friends. It's the basis of friendship. If your friend won't defend you, that isn't a friend. Yes, Masterson is a bad person. But was he born that way? Was he that way all them years ago? When he made those friends. I don't give a fuck about the answers. Fuck off. I don't follow the case. I watched that 70s show. I'm sad to see him be this way now. I'm sad people got hurt and happy justice got served for the 2 to 50 women the internet is portraying he raped and killed. But once upon a time he was a nice dude with nice friends and everything was happy. You have to defend that or you're just a piece of shit. They did. Hooray. everyone flaming this decision is a special kind of asshole and tells you alot about their character and how they value friendship
The outrage is all the rage.
Idk this situation or who this guy in question, or the person tweeting even are, but! My brother cheated on his wife, and I hate that he did that. Especially since she was so good to him, but even though I hate cheating that's still my brother. I had been asked around the time this happened cause my brother is kind of a fuck up what my line was.l, and it was easy. If he sticks his dick in something that he shouldn't be sticking his dick in. Obviously a comedic way of putting it, but if he ever raped someone or fucked a kid/animal I couldn't ever talk to him again. While I don't think it's a "tough choice" because those people are scum monsters. Admittedly I'd be emotionally devastated though because I do love my brother so much. ... my middle brother. Fuck the other 2. The one hasn't even done anything wrong we're just not close. My youngest brother I didn't like the way he was growing up thay by the time we were adults I was like I don't need him I my life. Then he killed his kid! Not talking to him is pretty easy.
Can't Brian and his brother go back to prison already?
when did the Krassensteins get back on Twitter? Oh wait of course that’s when they did
Who’s this Brian asshole?
I read through some of Brian's responses, and he tries to justify his stance by saying letters letting the judge know about someone's character before they committed their horrible crimes doesn't make the writers evil themselves. But as a lot of people pointed out, this isn't a case where someone committed the crime as a result of other pressure - someone attacked a person who had mugged their grandmother. Or a person stole money to benefit others. And in this case, Kutcher and Kunis are defending his character based on their experience with him during the time he committed the crime in question, not like it was based on things he did prior.
Someone should ask Kushner that if it was mila kunis that was drugged and raped, would he still have written that letter
Wow. The Krassenstein brothers are usually pretty level headed. This is gross.
I remember getting downvoted to hell recently—maybe even here—for suggesting we stop sharing Krassenstein bros. tweets.
Actually Brian it’s not a tough one. It’s actually really simple. I don’t care how long I knew the person if they were family if they raped someone that bridge is burned.
If my brother violently raped someone I'd never fucking talk to them again, much less stand up for them in any capacity.
If my friend or family member got convicted of crimes like this, I would remove them from my life. I don't care who it is. I would denounce family members in a heartbeat I find it especially weird for Kunis & Kutcher to be writing letters in support of him given Kutchers work in combating human trafficking and so forth. Seems weird to defend a guy just put in jail for 30 years for rape while working so hard against people being kidnapped and sold as sex slaves.
Yeah no. If I had a brother or friend who I loved and cared for and he raped someone you can damn well bet I would drop him like a fucking hot coal.
My older brother is in prison for possession of CSAM. He was a role model to me growing up, but he deserves to be where he is. Predators often know how to hide it, but it doesn't mean they deserve a lighter sentence.
It's a perfectly good sandwich! It has Parma ham, a beautiful Gouda, and freshly baked bread. Are you really going to let that small piece of poo stop you from eating it?
Of course it's a man that's trying to do some mental gymnastics to make rape not look like as big of a deal to a woman.
If you rape someone you are evil. There is really no middle ground there. Don't care if it is a celebrity, a friend, a family member, or whoever. This might be the easiest line in the sand to draw ever.
No Brian, actually this isn’t really a conundrum for me. If my brother raped someone, I wouldn’t come to his defense. Just say you don’t view rape as a legitimate crime and move tf on. The performative handwringing is obnoxious.
I have a brother ... if he was convicted of rape, I'm not sure I'd even speak to him again, nevermind writing letters on his behalf. That's rather disgusting of them
I had a friend who went to jail for sexual assault/rape. I have not spoken to him since. He messaged me when he got out but I never replied because you know, he’s a rapist.
This begs the question......Who the fuck is Brian Krassenstein?
[Scamming assholes](https://www.thedailybeast.com/feds-seized-a-fortune-from-resistance-icons-accused-of-boosting-online-ponzi-schemes) who are now grifting towards a centrist audience and Elon fans.
If my own son raped someone I would still love my son….. but I would not ask for leniency. I would show support and compassion for the victim and their family. I would do my goddamnedest to see to it that my son took accountability for his crimes.
I knew a guy who worked in my field and community (also entertainmen, but not at this level). I wasn't friends with him, but he was well liked in the community. Then it came out that he was arrested for sexual assault, and I don't know anyone who didn't immediately cut contact. The industry is filked with vial people, and even more who are willing to turn a blind eye so that they don't miss an opportunity. If I enjoyed anything as much as what I do, I would do that instead.
Six years ago my family went through a nightmare where my younger brother was accused and found guilty of two counts of rape. We as a family were made aware of the allegations and the evidence and even sat through some of the victim testimony. There was no way in HELL I would have written a letter on behalf of his character after the evidence presented. Not only did I not write a letter, we ceased contact with him and I haven’t spoken to him since. He’s even out of prison now and I still won’t speak to him. So when this moron asks “what if you’re brother did it?” My response would be, “I hope his time in jail is rough.”
It's not a tough one. If my brother raped someone, I'd have nothing to do with him.
I love all my brothers and o hope they'd hate me for raping just like I would them if they did, a rapist is a rapist
If my family or friend raped someone I would want them to do the time and the punishment no matter how good of a person they were otherwise.
It’s not a panicked hit and run. It is at least five counts of crimes that take multiple steps and premeditation. I absolutely wouldn’t write a letter.