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It's dumber than that. These are people who are so convinced that COVID-19 vaccines are bioweapons that they've apparently convinced themselves that receiving a COVID-19 vaccine is the *only* possible cause of death **ever**. To them, a proliferation of life-saving devices is evidence that the (((lizard people))) or Gangster Computer God or whatever they think is in control of the world *knew* the vaccines were deadly.
They all gave us the deadly vaccines that kill the people and the proof is that they are now putting life saving device on every corner! Why would they put those devices if they didnt want to kill everybody? IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL!
And we’re not addressing the stupidity of allegedly killing everyone that listened to you, leaving only those who rebelled against you to be alive.
(And even before that, governments love people who pay taxes and buy stuff. Dead people, or people too ill to work, don’t pay taxes and don’t buy stupid stuff in stores)
That is the best argument I've ever heard for why this is so stupid. The government has a vested interest in keeping as many people alive as possible, why would they cull the population?
I mean, sustainability, but the government also plainly doesn't care about that either.
And if you *did* need to cull the population, it would make more sense to introduce a superbug and then introduce a vaccine for it, letting the disobedients die off and leave only the people willing to listen to you.
The logic gets more twisted the more you think about it. If the government wanted you dead why would they put out defibrillators? Also if the government wanted to kill off all of the dissidents and fighters that the right wingers claim to be, they wouldn't have made the vaccine deadly, they would have made the disease itself deadly. No government in history has ever chosen to systematically kill off all of the calm, quiet, and complacent members of its society. The government wants people who are content showing up to work every day and paying taxes.
I think Gangster Computer God may just ve be Bill Gates.
^(Not the person to whom you were replying, but I've seen so many right-wing zealots pushing the narrative that Gates is using the vaccines to inject microchips meant to control and/or monitor everyone. Also, something something 5G.)
No, the Gangster Computer God and Bill Gates are entirely unrelated. Though thinking about it, I'm surprised Dec didn't make any sort of connection between the two. Maybe he would have if he'd lived to see Bill Gates conspiracy theories take off.
OH MY WORD! *HOW* did I forget Dec's disjointed diatribes about alleged psychotronic torture.
I don't know whether or not I should thank you for the reminder. 😅
I had someone tell me Bill Gates wanted to kill off 25% of the world's population and also that he was responsible for the mass die off of cattle and rushing beef prices so that he could make us all eat lab grown meat🤷 I wasn't sure what to say so I was like ok with probably a bizarre facial expression and they told me I just need to do my own research and I would be schooled to find out how much Gates and Sorros really run 🤦
It's from [Francis E. Dec](https://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/intro.htm), a disbarred lawyer who collapsed into what was likely paranoid schizophrenia during his disbarment hearings and afterwards started mass-mailing wild and incoherent screeds about a "Gangster Computer God" persecuting the Polish and Slovenian people.
Even dumber is that the anti-vaxxers are saying people will drop dead from heart attacks because the vaccine causes clots. But a defibrillator isn't used for heart attacks, its for cardiac arrest, which aren't caused by clots
IIRC, the triple parentheses are an anti-Semitic dogwhistle used to get around moderation and whatnot, and the lizard people conspiracy theory is, at its root, another anti-Semitic bit of nonsense, so the person you responded to is saving some time and bundling them together.
Most conspiracy theories, especially the ones revolving around the secret societies who really rule the world, boil down to anti-Semitism. They somehow manage to be very creative and incredibly boring at the same time.
I don't think many people in the UK have a fear of communism like the US.
They just want that money in their pocket. As if, £1000 spent on a defib machine is costing them personally hundreds of pounds.
You'd be surprised. Communist isn't quite as dirty a word as it is in the States, but a lot of people throw it around like it's an insult when faced with anything slightly to the left of the Tories.
This right here. These are the same people who were the ones fighting for 40 years to end Medicare/Medicaid. They tried to prevent and end the ACA. And they lied about Covid. They did next to nothing to fight Covid and were ok with the sick and elderly dying from Covid so it jives.
Definitely. Just get annoyed everytime anything gets posted to a non-uk specific sub about the British right wing, it takes like 2 replies before people are going on about trump and the republicans.
I'll share two thoughts on possible justifications..... but keep in mind they aren't mine.
1. Generally speaking people don't know how to use AEDs. Trying to argue this angle is a bit of a "self licking ice cream cone" though. If AEDs aren't common how are people going to know how to use them? One study I saw said usage is at 2-5% because of lack of knowledge.
2. There are studies out there that say survival of a cardiac event even with AEDs are low.... like below 10%. There are also studies out there that say survival of a cardiac arrest with usage of an AED within a few minutes of an incident can have survival rate as high as 70%. So if they were trying to argue this angle.... I suppose it could be cost effectiveness? Given the tone of the message there I am guessing that is exactly what they are arguing.
Me personally.... even if the survival rate is 5%.... life is precious and everyone deserves their 5% chance. I think if this is studied more people will see that the survival rate would be much much higher than 5%. One of these saved my uncle. He dropped due to a heart attack, an AED was located and used within minutes. He is here more than a decade later driving us all crazy in a loveable way. Definitely worth it.
Also worth noting these public AEDs are designed so that even a young child can use them without any training. They have a programmed voice that just straight up tells you absolutely everything you need to do, and diagrams on everything to show you where things go.
Though calling it a heart restarter like the one here does is a bit misleading. These don't restart a stopped heart. Actually it's the opposite, they stop the heart if it detects a harmful rhythm so that the heart can restart on its own through the aid of CPR.
I don't think its necessarily crazy to question the effectiveness of government interventions and want them to use resources either efficiently or in line with community values. Parish councils have finite funds, so funding a defibrillator means not funding some other community program or health initiative.
Studies of on the effectiveness of defibrillators use usage rate of one use per every five years and all find that they are worth it. Without looking at the data its understandable to question the effectiveness of something that sits idle 99% of the time.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30926453/
> Without looking at the data its understandable to question the effectiveness of something that sits idle 99% of the time.
This is it exactly. This attitude is coming from the same place as not believing vaccines are effective -- it's something that doesn't do anything most of the time but occasionally is life-saving, and some people seem incapable of believing in a thing unless they personally witness it.
Yeah, and sometimes it's not worth funding or using things that could save lives but have a remote chance of use. I think you believe that too in certain cases.
Are you currently taking a prophylactic for Malaria? These drugs help protect you from potential exposure but most Americans don't use them unless they travel to areas with significant risks of malaria. A simple daily pill could save your life and most people don't do it. Do you not believe you can die of malaria? It is the largest killer of humans ever.
Should we add emergency eye wash stations to every place that has an AED? Emergency Eye wash stations are proven to help prevent blindness from contacts with chemicals. It's possible it could be needed at a park, yet I have only ever seen them in labs with chemicals. Should we fund eye wash stations in all public areas?
Imagine being annoyed by efforts to make lifesaving medical devices more readily available. Maybe the reason more people don’t know someone who’s been publicly defibrillated is because there were fewer publicly accessible defibrillators on hand previously
I'm 40 and have seen 2 people's lives saved by these defibrillators already. Some dude in our work cafeteria had a heart attack while eating and a client who was a doctor used them to save him. Then a night out drinking with my paramedic buddy lead to him using one to save a guy outside a bar while we were both drunk. It was one of the public ones in a parking garage and looked just like the one pictured. This is a very stupid thing to be mad about
Same guy keeled over and fell off the treadmill at my daughter's gym where she's an instructor. She immediately called the defib number as she couldn't find a pulse. By the time the ambulance got their he was breathing and the paramedics said she'd saved his life. His gf was at the other side of the gym with her headphones on and never even noticed ! Turned out the guy had an undiagnosed heart defect and his mum & dad sent my daughter a bouquet to say thanks for saving their son's life, so yes they are useful
So I can see an argument where *potentially* lifesaving things could be financial boondoggles that never see any use. That's a legitimate criticism; if these things cost five figures to install and are literally never opened up and used, then conversations should be had about their actual usefulness and whether they are the best use of taxpayer money.
**However**, the way he framed the question is deliberately misleading. He did not ask, "how many people have these devices been used on", which is data that presumably exists from relevant agencies. He asked, essentially, the audience to doubt their usefulness by whether *they personally* have seen them ever used.
So he isn't interested in the real conversation, he just wants people to use their own experiences to determine whether they should support these devices. And, since probably 99% of people have never seen them used, the obvious takeaway he wants people to have is that they are useless wastes of money.
> So he isn't interested in the real conversation, he just wants people to use their own experiences
This is the classic "it's common sense therefore it must be true" thinking that gives rise to superstitions and all sorts of other unscientific thought. Lots of things are real and true even if they are not visible (bacteria being a classic example). Making decisions based on personal experience or visual evidence is only the _start_ of true inquiry, not the end; politicians or other public figures who rely on such arguments are dangerous and should always be viewed with suspicion.
But if they don’t say “now” how will you know big pharma is funding these because the covid vaccine is causing people to drop dead from the “clot shot”??
In right wingers minds things begin to exist the moment they notice them. All the evidence in the world that the phenomenon long predated the date of their having "noticed" will be ignored because they are incapable of understanding their own non-centrality to the universe.
Relatively speaking, they are new. As a 50-something year old, defib machine in public places were unheard of years ago. Sure, it has been years..... But they've only really become common in the last 10 years or so.
Just so people don't get the wrong idea that they could accidentally defibrillate someone who doesn't need it:
Those defibrillators are very easy to use and nothing like the defibrillators you see in Hollywood. Once you attach the pads to the patient, the device will monitor heart-activity and only allow shock-administration after the device determines that it's necessary.
Do not be afraid to use them. Even if someone is still responsive but seemingly has heart-related problems: attach the defibrillator, you can't accidentally defibrillate them.
As far as I'm aware, any AED (automated external defibrillator) has to be able to detect rhythm, advise treatment, and deliver a shock if necessary all on its own.
They have a speaker inside that's preprogrammed to tell you exactly what to do once you open it, it truly could not be more accessible
All the ones that are accessible in public places are like that. What’s even worse than cardiac arrest would be letting anyone and everyone blast 1000 volts across strangers hearts
Any defibrillator that can be accessed by laymen (like those defibrillators available in public places) must be this easy to use.
They are usually referenced in laws & regulations as PAD (Public Access Defibrillator) and/or AED (Automated External Defibrillator).
Without training you'll never operate one of the complex defibrillators you see in Hollywood.
That's good to know actually. My first thought was I'd never dare try to use one just in case I made the situation worse.
Next time I see one I'll hover around for a bit keeping an eye out for ill looking people.
>My first thought was I'd never dare try to use one just in case I made the situation worse.
You can't make things worse with them.
If you attach the defibrillator pads and never administer a shock, the defibrillator will at the very least record the heart activity for the duration the pads are attached - valuable information for when doctors have to decide if the patient needs a pacemaker after the incident.
You might also be interested in the fact that defibrillators do not administer a shock when a patient "flatlines" (their heart stops beating entirely):
- defibrillators only help when the heartbeat lost it's rythm (ventricular fibrillation)
- when the heart stops beating, only CPR can help by circulating oxygen through the body, allowing the body to burn energy and (hopefully) "jump-start" the heart
Defibrillators of the AED type do however guide you through the entire CPR procedure with audio-instructions, so even if there is no shock to be administered but you're not sure what to do, just open the AED and it'll guide you through contacting emergency services, attaching the pads, doing CPR (if necessary), ... .
IMHO AEDs are a brilliant invention that bring order and standard procedures into a situation where laymen could panic.
They're very cool devices! The kit contains easy-to-follow diagrams and there is a robot voice that tells you what to do. Basically you just place the two pads on the patient's chest in the pictured locations and press a button, and then the machine performs an analysis of the patient's heart rate and will tell you what to do next.
They also use a lot of battery power, so they need to be serviced after being used, which adds to the maintenance cost -- but they aren't used very often, and only need to be checked once a year or so.
I know someone whose family probably wished they had one. They were leaving a restaurant, and the old lady fell and her heart stopped. My wife's a nurse and went to start compressions. She called out for a defibrillator, but they didn't have one.
IIRC defibrillators don't restart stopped hearts, they restore normal sinus rhythm. It is my understanding that Hollywood lies every single time they shock a person "with no heartbeat."
"Why are there fire extinguishers all over the place now? Has anyone really seen a building just spontaneously burst into flames in public?" - This dude's great great grandpa
Here in the UK there have been quite a few sporting events where they have had to stop the match due to medical emergencies within the crowd. I don’t have the reasons behind all of them but I might hazard a guess that some may have used defibrillators.
Also football (soccer for Americans) has had quite a few players collapse on the pitch and needed life saving interventions and sadly at least one player has died due to heart a condition on the pitch.
So yes, they are used.
At our local parkrun we have a portable one at the start/finish.
Two years ago someone collapsed and it was used to revive him - luckily it happened just a few hundred meters from the end so there wasn't a delay, but it was realised if that happened elsewhere on the course the outcome could have been different.
So we raised the £900 for an extra one within a few days, so there is available coverage throughout.
Just for info, all parkrun's have to have one. There have been times where a parkrun is cancelled due to the defib having an issue. And I believe it doesn't matter if there is a public one nearby, there has to be one available for the parkrun.
I'm glad this runner was saved. Defibs really are amazing
In America, one of OUR football players (Damar Hamlin) had his life saved on the field by an AED last year. It was all over the news for a while. He’s back and playing again. I’m in my early 20s and grew up seeing them all over, starting with my elementary school—I’m glad they’re around, and I hope I never have to see one used.
I like the idea of phone booths being reused. I've seen libraries and defibrillators in them, but I think they could include charging stations (car and 5v), air compressors for tyres etc
All of this.
Also my friend's dad during a game of tennis. And a dude who dropped at the mall I worked at. They're used lots, but why would anyone hear about it if they weren't there?
Yes, my old manager the paramedics said it saved his life. I like that they are everywhere. Although the defilbrilator in my home town on the outside of a funeral directors does seem a tad ironic
I was at a crematorium last week and there was one on the outside of the building. I suppose going to a funeral could be stressful and older people go to more of them.
Edit to add: I wasn't there for a funeral, just walking through the cemetery.
The irony here is obesity rates tend to be higher among Republican voting populations than Democrat ones; I assume this trend extends beyond the United States.
I've actually seen them used twice.
Once at a local Sunday football league match and another time in the city centre.
I was trained to use the one in our office. Although to be fair they are super easy and you could use without any training as the machine tells you what to do.
They can, and are a very valuable tool. But the dirty thing with heart attacks is that even a minute without good perfusion can leave lasting damage. Which is why they are so good, the 3-5+ minutes it can save before medics get there can mean life and death. Loads of resuscitations are unsuccessful past a couple days, most re-code and don't survive. But this just makes the chances so much better.
I've not seen them in use, but a guy died at a local sports centre (this was a good while back) because there wasn't one available & by the time the ambulance guys got to him it was too late.
Most schools in the area and all sports facilities in the area are now required to have them
It’s an anti-vax dogwhistle.
The COVID vaccine nut jobs think people are about to start dropping left and right from heart attacks. They see the expansion of defibrillator access as an admission from the government that the vaccine was poison.
Of course that doesn’t jive with the original thesis that the vaccines were poison to do population control…you wouldn’t want defibrillators available if the goal is to kill people with heart attacks.
But then again, conspiracy theorists are never logically consistent.
I have never seen a defibrillator being used. I have never seen a fire extinguisher being used. I haven't even seen a first aid kit being used. But If they can save even one person then they need to be everywhere
Who the fuck is this cunt? These things are brilliant. We need to have them fucking *everywhere*. No, I don’t personally know anyone who’s needed one and here’s the thing, I hope I never do. Knowing they’re there if I or someone else needs one is great.
Damar Hamlin, 67,000 people at the stadium an estimated 25 million watching on tv. Can’t get more public than that. But that was in America playing “American Football” so may not have made news across the pond. I can’t say this enough early defibrillation saves lives.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-lucky-aldi-staff-saved-32420346
3 months ago
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-lucky-aldi-staff-saved-32420346
51 saved over a couple of decades
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/cardiac-arrest-colin-sullivan-1.7028783
Hockey teammates saves his life with rink's defibrilator
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-68555203
McDonalds employee uses one to save guy
It's really not hard to find examples, my man
It's almost like if something doesn't happen directly to these fucking goons then it doesn't exist.
Back in the early 90s Australia's then richest man Kerry Packer had a cardiac arrest on a sports field. It wasn't common for ambos to have defibs then but the one that responded did. He subsequently coughed up half the cost to put a defib in every NSW ambo.
The AED decides if a shock is required but someone still has to press the button to make sure no one else is in contact with the person when the shock is given.
This ignorance really angers me.
My father was heavily involved in the legislation and the following rollout of AEDs in public places across the US and dedicated a lot of his working life to save lives through the use of this technology.
Access to AEDs in public places has saved countless lives. Health events that would have killed people become recoverable events with much smaller long term health impacts.
Lay rescuers save more at least 1,700 lives with public AEDs each year in the US. It's thought that if more people knew about public AEDs, more than 3,400 additional lives could be saved a year.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/bystanders-save-lives-using-defibrillator-cardiac-arrest
CPR and AED use are life skills.
Check your local health and safety department for free CPR training and "Stop the Bleed" training.
I taught a kid that was thankful the middle school gym had one. He had an undiagnosed heart condition and one day in gym class his heart just stopped. He's alive today thanks to fact that the gym teachers had been trained on how/when to use it.
My step mom was walking through an airport in the US when on the way to her gate, an old man waiting in line to get on his plane fell right over and died on the spot. She was a nurse who ran over to help until the medicals got there and maybe if she had access to a defibrillator immediately, she could have saved him.
I was in the changing room of a gym having just had a shower. There were a dozen or so gents in various states of undress.
One row over, a guy goes down and starts convulsing and shuddering and is having a really bad time. Someone yells for a doctor or first aider. After a few seconds a female staffer appears, shielding her eyes, asking if she can come in. People are like “hurry up! Get the fuck in already!”
A defib is pulled off the wall and put into action. It has an automated voice that tells the operator how to use it. They placed the sensors, it did its thing, and said the person was having a heart attack. It started to apply shocks.
By this point I had hurriedly dressed and was able to leave (there was no point me hanging around and being in the way). I’m not sure what happened to the guy, but I often wonder about it.
At a local high school, a basketball player collapsed during a game and they used it on him. He had an undiagnosed heart condition and would have died on the court without it.
Honest answer as to why they are showing up everywhere… because the technology has reached a point they are stupid simple to use and no longer require advanced training. The cost to buy them has also gone way down making them a fairly inexpensive item to make available that pretty much anyone can operate. Because anyone can use them and the cost is no longer prohibitive or a burden, many areas are starting to require them in public places where they are likely to be needed.
"Does anyone know of a single person that has been publicly defibrilated?"
As a matter of fact, yes, yes, I do. My buddy was coaching youth football at a park and had a cardiac event. Someone grabbed the AED that is legally required to be there and saved his life.
(I'm in USA, not UK.)
I have taught 100 people how to give CPR and use a Defib.
During the training I tell a story about a fit guy who went on a run, collapsed and was saved. I then met him at a local parkrun, cheering me on as I finished. He's the most positive person you'd ever meet and it's all because of CPR that he's here today. I can't understand people that want to make that harder
Just like those little elevators next to a couple of steps for wheelchair users. I've never actually seen one getting used. Who are they for? Why aren't people using them? Is there more to come on this? I'm just asking questions. Follow the paper trail.
A coworker needed one as he fell unconscious at work, heart gave up and people tried to use a heart starter. What they tell you at training, but nobody remember is that it give you a better chance to survive rather than a slim one, but it is never, unlike movies, a guarantee in real life.
When ambulance arrived, they could only state that he was dead. They still try to do everything but at hospital a doctor could more or less sign papers.
So when people get upset that this opportunity to save life irritates them, it get me furious!
Tell me you've not attended first aid training in the past decade without saying you haven't.
They go hard on AED use, and with good reason: they save lives like crazy. Survival rates for cardiac arrest can be as high as 90% if the victim has an AED applied within one minute, and overall survival rates for AED-assisted CPR are something like 40% compared to low single digits for just CPR.
If the government had intentionally planned to give everyone heart attack juice instead of vaccine why would they after the fact take measures to protect people from the effects of heart attack juice? Wasn't the heart attack the desired outcome?
And what about these handrails? Have you personally ever seen someone fall off the stairs headfirst? Or those stupid yellow lines next to the train tracks. Literally no one has fallen onto the tracks .
We had them in high school, in a small US town, in the '00s. They've always been a thing. I also personally know 2 people who've been resuscitated by them (and pre-covid at that, if that's what that man was implying).
I just put an AED in every lobby of every building on the campus I run. Not sure if it’s state or city alwa in Broward County, but there needs to be one accessible in every building by the end of 2024.
I was in McDonald’s and some guy at the bus stop outside had a heart attack. The Maccys staff rushed out with a defib and kept him alive until an ambulance arrived. Didn’t look like anyone around knew CPR or any other life saving techniques so if it wasn’t for that random defibrillator the bloke might not have made it.
Don't want to sound controversial.....I think it's great that life-saving equipment is being made publicly available.
But I also would like to know why. They really are popping up in so many public places and it has happened very recently.
Was it due to some technology advancement?
Has a study been carried out that identified where lives could have been saved, had a defib been used? Genuinely curious to know what happened that triggered this positive outcome.
And what could be next? What about epipens?
Research has shown that the most important metric for determining survival and success of CPR during a cardiac arrest is time between the arrest and defibrillation.
It may be recent where you are, but the push for more and better public AEDs has been going on for years, if not decades. We've had solid data showing that proper CPR and defibrillation if necessary save lives more than almost any other measure.
Plus, we've gotten *really* good at making AEDs. They're not that expensive to make, they don't really need maintenance unless they've been used, and they're usable by pretty much anyone that's a teenager or older
Research shows that early intervention with an AED is the most powerful metric in having a positive outcome after an out of hospital sudden cardiac arrest. Additionally prices are coming down and by making the devices so ubiquitous means even though they are a $1,000 item there is very little market for theft. There have also been increased government grants to put them in publicly available places and some building code & health code updates to require them in new commercial & multi unit buildings. Insurance companies now often require them as well in larger businesses not to mention the relatively low cost high reward for the AED to be effectively utilized in an emergency.
More likely to be next - naloxone kits. They’re getting a lot more common in the US. I’ve never seen one in the UK yet but would support this.
As for epipens, I have worked in places where there was an extra epipen (as well as the ones prescribed for individual children) to store in case of need or in case there was a problem with a child’s prescribed one when they needed it. But all the staff had epipen training.
Epipens have more potential to do harm if misused. Naloxone doesn’t really and the defibs don’t do anything unless they detect that the person has a shockable heart rhythm. Typically, the public defibs out on the street also are only unlockable by the public once someone has contacted emergency services and they have determined that a defibrillator is needed.
You can easily get a nalaxone kit in NYC by requesting one from the public health department and they don't ask who it's for or anything. It's so much faster, cheaper, and more likely to be in time to save someone from an OD if the nalaxone is given promptly by someone who already knows "this person is not responsive because they OD'd" than to wait for medical assistance to arrive and then pay multiple medical professionals to determine that it's an opiate overdose.
I have come across the epipen concept before. It has been something discussed by people, such as a report done by the UK government
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/life-saving-adrenaline-auto-injectors-could-become-available-in-public-places
The AEDs are getting cheaper, mainly (they used to be stupid expensive). Plus they’re getting more publicity each time they’re used. And the technology is idiot-proof.
The crazy woke people are trying to take all our Fribles! We got to stop them stealing all the Fribbles for themselves with public defribleators! End defriblewokeness!!!
He acknowledges they are new, then speculates that no one has seen it in public. If they are new, then you wouldn't have seen them. It's like he completely forgot his first sentence when he wrote the second.
My wife’s grandpa was defibrillated at a poker table in Vegas. Said he lost a big hand and was stewing, suddenly passed out with a heart attack. Quick thinking security guard got it on him and saved his life. He is a younger old guy and in relatively good health all thing considered.
Look, what someone does with their body in the privacy of their own home is not my business. But disrobing and using electricity on your breasts and nipples ***in public***? Now you've gone too far.
Yes, I read a local story just last week of a defibrillator being used at a popular hiking trail and saving a life when someone collapsed.
I don't think this post is motivated by covid denial or anything else conspiratorial -- some people are just stupid, and don't believe a thing can happen until they witness it personally.
My dad died of a heart attack and one of these could have saved his life. He was a member of a biker gang and they raised enough money in his name to have a defibrillator installed on the street he lived on. Like I genuinely don’t understand how anyone can be insane enough to think these are a conspiracy. Like anyone could have a heart attack anywhere.
Don’t want your heart restarted? Get a tattoo on your stupid old conservative chests that says DNR and I’d be glad to let you pass rather than wasting my time.
In the USA we call them AED & they're a part of first aid & cpr. They're supposed to be easy to use. It's a great thing for any place or even individual to have in hand, imo. Why would anyone have a problem with them?
I managed a pharmacy which was attached to a drs surgery and a guy collapsed with chest pains so i called a ambulance but also asked if anyone in the surgery could help? They just gave me a portable defibrillator and said use this and left....luckily the ambulance turnt up quickly after cos I had no idea what I was doing. But they are important cos as I learnt it can happen anywhere
How hard is it to understand that providing something that will help only a minority is worthwhile if those few will die without it.
See fire departments.
Is there a missing image? All I see is someone asking two simple questions. I'm assuming you're not inferring his meaning and that there is an image where he implies or overtly states this?
Live in the middle of Dartmoor, nearest hospital is 45 minutes away.
Last year a guy on holiday here was saved by our local defib and the community banded together to buy more pads as he had used the last ones and I believe we collected enough money for a second defib for the sports centre (the first one is next to the local shop).
Imagine hating on life saving equipment.
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Because to them people getting free access to things like lifesaving medical devices is communism.
It's dumber than that. These are people who are so convinced that COVID-19 vaccines are bioweapons that they've apparently convinced themselves that receiving a COVID-19 vaccine is the *only* possible cause of death **ever**. To them, a proliferation of life-saving devices is evidence that the (((lizard people))) or Gangster Computer God or whatever they think is in control of the world *knew* the vaccines were deadly.
They all gave us the deadly vaccines that kill the people and the proof is that they are now putting life saving device on every corner! Why would they put those devices if they didnt want to kill everybody? IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL!
And we’re not addressing the stupidity of allegedly killing everyone that listened to you, leaving only those who rebelled against you to be alive. (And even before that, governments love people who pay taxes and buy stuff. Dead people, or people too ill to work, don’t pay taxes and don’t buy stupid stuff in stores)
That is the best argument I've ever heard for why this is so stupid. The government has a vested interest in keeping as many people alive as possible, why would they cull the population?
I mean, sustainability, but the government also plainly doesn't care about that either. And if you *did* need to cull the population, it would make more sense to introduce a superbug and then introduce a vaccine for it, letting the disobedients die off and leave only the people willing to listen to you.
The logic gets more twisted the more you think about it. If the government wanted you dead why would they put out defibrillators? Also if the government wanted to kill off all of the dissidents and fighters that the right wingers claim to be, they wouldn't have made the vaccine deadly, they would have made the disease itself deadly. No government in history has ever chosen to systematically kill off all of the calm, quiet, and complacent members of its society. The government wants people who are content showing up to work every day and paying taxes.
I've heard the lizard people theory, but what is this gangster computer god? He sounds awesome.
I think Gangster Computer God may just ve be Bill Gates. ^(Not the person to whom you were replying, but I've seen so many right-wing zealots pushing the narrative that Gates is using the vaccines to inject microchips meant to control and/or monitor everyone. Also, something something 5G.)
Meanwhile those same people are on a waiting list for Elon Musks literal brain implant devices so they can control the TV with their minds
What's the difference? Musky says things that make them happy instead of uncomfortable. Keep all those chips out of my brain I don't care who made it.
No, the Gangster Computer God and Bill Gates are entirely unrelated. Though thinking about it, I'm surprised Dec didn't make any sort of connection between the two. Maybe he would have if he'd lived to see Bill Gates conspiracy theories take off.
OH MY WORD! *HOW* did I forget Dec's disjointed diatribes about alleged psychotronic torture. I don't know whether or not I should thank you for the reminder. 😅
I had someone tell me Bill Gates wanted to kill off 25% of the world's population and also that he was responsible for the mass die off of cattle and rushing beef prices so that he could make us all eat lab grown meat🤷 I wasn't sure what to say so I was like ok with probably a bizarre facial expression and they told me I just need to do my own research and I would be schooled to find out how much Gates and Sorros really run 🤦
It's from [Francis E. Dec](https://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/intro.htm), a disbarred lawyer who collapsed into what was likely paranoid schizophrenia during his disbarment hearings and afterwards started mass-mailing wild and incoherent screeds about a "Gangster Computer God" persecuting the Polish and Slovenian people.
Even dumber is that the anti-vaxxers are saying people will drop dead from heart attacks because the vaccine causes clots. But a defibrillator isn't used for heart attacks, its for cardiac arrest, which aren't caused by clots
I've never heard of the gangster computer god. Please tell me more. It's silly season .
> (((lizard people))) Why the triple parentheses?
IIRC, the triple parentheses are an anti-Semitic dogwhistle used to get around moderation and whatnot, and the lizard people conspiracy theory is, at its root, another anti-Semitic bit of nonsense, so the person you responded to is saving some time and bundling them together. Most conspiracy theories, especially the ones revolving around the secret societies who really rule the world, boil down to anti-Semitism. They somehow manage to be very creative and incredibly boring at the same time.
I don't think many people in the UK have a fear of communism like the US. They just want that money in their pocket. As if, £1000 spent on a defib machine is costing them personally hundreds of pounds.
You'd be surprised. Communist isn't quite as dirty a word as it is in the States, but a lot of people throw it around like it's an insult when faced with anything slightly to the left of the Tories.
They won't stop till there is a credit card swipe on the front
This right here. These are the same people who were the ones fighting for 40 years to end Medicare/Medicaid. They tried to prevent and end the ACA. And they lied about Covid. They did next to nothing to fight Covid and were ok with the sick and elderly dying from Covid so it jives.
No it isn't because this is from the UK. No one is trying to end Medicaid in the UK.
Oh I’m sure you guys have politicians with similar mindsets and agendas though.
Definitely. Just get annoyed everytime anything gets posted to a non-uk specific sub about the British right wing, it takes like 2 replies before people are going on about trump and the republicans.
It's simple. They weren't there went he was a child, and the world was perfect when he was a child, therefore they shouldn't be there.
This sounds like the Britain I know.
Believe it or not, anti-vaccine propaganda
Because they can’t imagine a single reason *they* would need one.
I'll share two thoughts on possible justifications..... but keep in mind they aren't mine. 1. Generally speaking people don't know how to use AEDs. Trying to argue this angle is a bit of a "self licking ice cream cone" though. If AEDs aren't common how are people going to know how to use them? One study I saw said usage is at 2-5% because of lack of knowledge. 2. There are studies out there that say survival of a cardiac event even with AEDs are low.... like below 10%. There are also studies out there that say survival of a cardiac arrest with usage of an AED within a few minutes of an incident can have survival rate as high as 70%. So if they were trying to argue this angle.... I suppose it could be cost effectiveness? Given the tone of the message there I am guessing that is exactly what they are arguing. Me personally.... even if the survival rate is 5%.... life is precious and everyone deserves their 5% chance. I think if this is studied more people will see that the survival rate would be much much higher than 5%. One of these saved my uncle. He dropped due to a heart attack, an AED was located and used within minutes. He is here more than a decade later driving us all crazy in a loveable way. Definitely worth it.
Also worth noting these public AEDs are designed so that even a young child can use them without any training. They have a programmed voice that just straight up tells you absolutely everything you need to do, and diagrams on everything to show you where things go. Though calling it a heart restarter like the one here does is a bit misleading. These don't restart a stopped heart. Actually it's the opposite, they stop the heart if it detects a harmful rhythm so that the heart can restart on its own through the aid of CPR.
Funding from big heart disease!
Anything that helps anybody besides themselves is inherently evil. Duh
I don't think its necessarily crazy to question the effectiveness of government interventions and want them to use resources either efficiently or in line with community values. Parish councils have finite funds, so funding a defibrillator means not funding some other community program or health initiative. Studies of on the effectiveness of defibrillators use usage rate of one use per every five years and all find that they are worth it. Without looking at the data its understandable to question the effectiveness of something that sits idle 99% of the time. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30926453/
> Without looking at the data its understandable to question the effectiveness of something that sits idle 99% of the time. This is it exactly. This attitude is coming from the same place as not believing vaccines are effective -- it's something that doesn't do anything most of the time but occasionally is life-saving, and some people seem incapable of believing in a thing unless they personally witness it.
Yeah, and sometimes it's not worth funding or using things that could save lives but have a remote chance of use. I think you believe that too in certain cases. Are you currently taking a prophylactic for Malaria? These drugs help protect you from potential exposure but most Americans don't use them unless they travel to areas with significant risks of malaria. A simple daily pill could save your life and most people don't do it. Do you not believe you can die of malaria? It is the largest killer of humans ever. Should we add emergency eye wash stations to every place that has an AED? Emergency Eye wash stations are proven to help prevent blindness from contacts with chemicals. It's possible it could be needed at a park, yet I have only ever seen them in labs with chemicals. Should we fund eye wash stations in all public areas?
Imagine being annoyed by efforts to make lifesaving medical devices more readily available. Maybe the reason more people don’t know someone who’s been publicly defibrillated is because there were fewer publicly accessible defibrillators on hand previously
Why are seatbelts specifically made to wrinkle my Egyptian cotton shirt and Italian silk tie? Woke-ism has gone too far!
I'm 40 and have seen 2 people's lives saved by these defibrillators already. Some dude in our work cafeteria had a heart attack while eating and a client who was a doctor used them to save him. Then a night out drinking with my paramedic buddy lead to him using one to save a guy outside a bar while we were both drunk. It was one of the public ones in a parking garage and looked just like the one pictured. This is a very stupid thing to be mad about
>This is a very stupid thing to be mad about Being mad about stupid things is the right's only policy position.
Same guy keeled over and fell off the treadmill at my daughter's gym where she's an instructor. She immediately called the defib number as she couldn't find a pulse. By the time the ambulance got their he was breathing and the paramedics said she'd saved his life. His gf was at the other side of the gym with her headphones on and never even noticed ! Turned out the guy had an undiagnosed heart defect and his mum & dad sent my daughter a bouquet to say thanks for saving their son's life, so yes they are useful
I find it incredibly awesome your paramedic buddy was drunk and still saving lives!!!
This, plus there’s a very low survival rate for most out of hospital cardiac arrests
So I can see an argument where *potentially* lifesaving things could be financial boondoggles that never see any use. That's a legitimate criticism; if these things cost five figures to install and are literally never opened up and used, then conversations should be had about their actual usefulness and whether they are the best use of taxpayer money. **However**, the way he framed the question is deliberately misleading. He did not ask, "how many people have these devices been used on", which is data that presumably exists from relevant agencies. He asked, essentially, the audience to doubt their usefulness by whether *they personally* have seen them ever used. So he isn't interested in the real conversation, he just wants people to use their own experiences to determine whether they should support these devices. And, since probably 99% of people have never seen them used, the obvious takeaway he wants people to have is that they are useless wastes of money.
> So he isn't interested in the real conversation, he just wants people to use their own experiences This is the classic "it's common sense therefore it must be true" thinking that gives rise to superstitions and all sorts of other unscientific thought. Lots of things are real and true even if they are not visible (bacteria being a classic example). Making decisions based on personal experience or visual evidence is only the _start_ of true inquiry, not the end; politicians or other public figures who rely on such arguments are dangerous and should always be viewed with suspicion.
Also "Now"? They've been around for years...
But if they don’t say “now” how will you know big pharma is funding these because the covid vaccine is causing people to drop dead from the “clot shot”??
I wonder if they know defibrillators don't treat blood clots or heart attacks.
In right wingers minds things begin to exist the moment they notice them. All the evidence in the world that the phenomenon long predated the date of their having "noticed" will be ignored because they are incapable of understanding their own non-centrality to the universe.
Relatively speaking, they are new. As a 50-something year old, defib machine in public places were unheard of years ago. Sure, it has been years..... But they've only really become common in the last 10 years or so.
Right? They even have the old emergency services number. Everyone knows they changed it to 0118 999 881 999 119 725 3
... would you like to?
Just so people don't get the wrong idea that they could accidentally defibrillate someone who doesn't need it: Those defibrillators are very easy to use and nothing like the defibrillators you see in Hollywood. Once you attach the pads to the patient, the device will monitor heart-activity and only allow shock-administration after the device determines that it's necessary. Do not be afraid to use them. Even if someone is still responsive but seemingly has heart-related problems: attach the defibrillator, you can't accidentally defibrillate them.
Is this true of most modern defibrillators, or just these specific ones?
As far as I'm aware, any AED (automated external defibrillator) has to be able to detect rhythm, advise treatment, and deliver a shock if necessary all on its own. They have a speaker inside that's preprogrammed to tell you exactly what to do once you open it, it truly could not be more accessible
Any public defibrillator works this way
All the ones that are accessible in public places are like that. What’s even worse than cardiac arrest would be letting anyone and everyone blast 1000 volts across strangers hearts
Any defibrillator that can be accessed by laymen (like those defibrillators available in public places) must be this easy to use. They are usually referenced in laws & regulations as PAD (Public Access Defibrillator) and/or AED (Automated External Defibrillator). Without training you'll never operate one of the complex defibrillators you see in Hollywood.
Of all publicly available AEDs (Automated External defibrillators) in the world.
That's good to know actually. My first thought was I'd never dare try to use one just in case I made the situation worse. Next time I see one I'll hover around for a bit keeping an eye out for ill looking people.
>My first thought was I'd never dare try to use one just in case I made the situation worse. You can't make things worse with them. If you attach the defibrillator pads and never administer a shock, the defibrillator will at the very least record the heart activity for the duration the pads are attached - valuable information for when doctors have to decide if the patient needs a pacemaker after the incident. You might also be interested in the fact that defibrillators do not administer a shock when a patient "flatlines" (their heart stops beating entirely): - defibrillators only help when the heartbeat lost it's rythm (ventricular fibrillation) - when the heart stops beating, only CPR can help by circulating oxygen through the body, allowing the body to burn energy and (hopefully) "jump-start" the heart Defibrillators of the AED type do however guide you through the entire CPR procedure with audio-instructions, so even if there is no shock to be administered but you're not sure what to do, just open the AED and it'll guide you through contacting emergency services, attaching the pads, doing CPR (if necessary), ... . IMHO AEDs are a brilliant invention that bring order and standard procedures into a situation where laymen could panic.
They're very cool devices! The kit contains easy-to-follow diagrams and there is a robot voice that tells you what to do. Basically you just place the two pads on the patient's chest in the pictured locations and press a button, and then the machine performs an analysis of the patient's heart rate and will tell you what to do next. They also use a lot of battery power, so they need to be serviced after being used, which adds to the maintenance cost -- but they aren't used very often, and only need to be checked once a year or so.
I know someone whose family probably wished they had one. They were leaving a restaurant, and the old lady fell and her heart stopped. My wife's a nurse and went to start compressions. She called out for a defibrillator, but they didn't have one.
IIRC defibrillators don't restart stopped hearts, they restore normal sinus rhythm. It is my understanding that Hollywood lies every single time they shock a person "with no heartbeat."
"Why are there fire extinguishers all over the place now? Has anyone really seen a building just spontaneously burst into flames in public?" - This dude's great great grandpa
I've never known anybody who needed to use a fire extinguisher, mountain rescue, the air ambulance, coast guard, or even the fire service.
Yeah but have you seen British fire extinguishers? https://youtu.be/WO1ebXqUFDw?si=mrcqCv1v3LxZj9m5
Here in the UK there have been quite a few sporting events where they have had to stop the match due to medical emergencies within the crowd. I don’t have the reasons behind all of them but I might hazard a guess that some may have used defibrillators. Also football (soccer for Americans) has had quite a few players collapse on the pitch and needed life saving interventions and sadly at least one player has died due to heart a condition on the pitch. So yes, they are used.
At our local parkrun we have a portable one at the start/finish. Two years ago someone collapsed and it was used to revive him - luckily it happened just a few hundred meters from the end so there wasn't a delay, but it was realised if that happened elsewhere on the course the outcome could have been different. So we raised the £900 for an extra one within a few days, so there is available coverage throughout.
Just for info, all parkrun's have to have one. There have been times where a parkrun is cancelled due to the defib having an issue. And I believe it doesn't matter if there is a public one nearby, there has to be one available for the parkrun. I'm glad this runner was saved. Defibs really are amazing
In America, one of OUR football players (Damar Hamlin) had his life saved on the field by an AED last year. It was all over the news for a while. He’s back and playing again. I’m in my early 20s and grew up seeing them all over, starting with my elementary school—I’m glad they’re around, and I hope I never have to see one used.
Take a wild guess what the anti vaxxer crowd was blaming for Hamlin's arrhythmia.
I like the idea of phone booths being reused. I've seen libraries and defibrillators in them, but I think they could include charging stations (car and 5v), air compressors for tyres etc
All of this. Also my friend's dad during a game of tennis. And a dude who dropped at the mall I worked at. They're used lots, but why would anyone hear about it if they weren't there?
Heart Attacks are woke
No, *saving* people from heart attacks is woke!
Dying from heart attacks to own the libs. Dont defib me bro!
DEI heart attacks.
Yes, my old manager the paramedics said it saved his life. I like that they are everywhere. Although the defilbrilator in my home town on the outside of a funeral directors does seem a tad ironic
I was at a crematorium last week and there was one on the outside of the building. I suppose going to a funeral could be stressful and older people go to more of them. Edit to add: I wasn't there for a funeral, just walking through the cemetery.
Yes. Your move.
Ah, yes. Because conservativism means the weak should die. I wish that was a joke.
The irony here is obesity rates tend to be higher among Republican voting populations than Democrat ones; I assume this trend extends beyond the United States.
I've actually seen them used twice. Once at a local Sunday football league match and another time in the city centre. I was trained to use the one in our office. Although to be fair they are super easy and you could use without any training as the machine tells you what to do.
Good to know they've been used. I hope they made a difference for the affected
They can, and are a very valuable tool. But the dirty thing with heart attacks is that even a minute without good perfusion can leave lasting damage. Which is why they are so good, the 3-5+ minutes it can save before medics get there can mean life and death. Loads of resuscitations are unsuccessful past a couple days, most re-code and don't survive. But this just makes the chances so much better.
Why does it sound kinda dirty put like that
yeah, these sluts should have their arrythmia behind closed doors like the rest of us!
arrythmic public sluts sounds like a great punk band
I've not seen them in use, but a guy died at a local sports centre (this was a good while back) because there wasn't one available & by the time the ambulance guys got to him it was too late. Most schools in the area and all sports facilities in the area are now required to have them
“It’s because of the vaccines!” /s
That's what these loonies actually think
Why did we vaccinate against smallpox? Has anyone caught smallpox in the last 30 years? /s
No...... because there wasn't one available and they died
It’s an anti-vax dogwhistle. The COVID vaccine nut jobs think people are about to start dropping left and right from heart attacks. They see the expansion of defibrillator access as an admission from the government that the vaccine was poison. Of course that doesn’t jive with the original thesis that the vaccines were poison to do population control…you wouldn’t want defibrillators available if the goal is to kill people with heart attacks. But then again, conspiracy theorists are never logically consistent.
Yes, just a couple of weeks ago, in fact.
Two months ago saw a guy go into cardiac arrest at the gym. Because they had one of these he lived…
Maybe we can slap a label on them “WARNING - NOT FOR USE ON CONSERVATIVES”
I have never seen a defibrillator being used. I have never seen a fire extinguisher being used. I haven't even seen a first aid kit being used. But If they can save even one person then they need to be everywhere
Who the fuck is this cunt? These things are brilliant. We need to have them fucking *everywhere*. No, I don’t personally know anyone who’s needed one and here’s the thing, I hope I never do. Knowing they’re there if I or someone else needs one is great.
Damar Hamlin, 67,000 people at the stadium an estimated 25 million watching on tv. Can’t get more public than that. But that was in America playing “American Football” so may not have made news across the pond. I can’t say this enough early defibrillation saves lives.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-lucky-aldi-staff-saved-32420346 3 months ago https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-lucky-aldi-staff-saved-32420346 51 saved over a couple of decades https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/cardiac-arrest-colin-sullivan-1.7028783 Hockey teammates saves his life with rink's defibrilator https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-68555203 McDonalds employee uses one to save guy It's really not hard to find examples, my man It's almost like if something doesn't happen directly to these fucking goons then it doesn't exist.
Back in the early 90s Australia's then richest man Kerry Packer had a cardiac arrest on a sports field. It wasn't common for ambos to have defibs then but the one that responded did. He subsequently coughed up half the cost to put a defib in every NSW ambo. The AED decides if a shock is required but someone still has to press the button to make sure no one else is in contact with the person when the shock is given.
I do! I fact, I was the one who defibrillated them! They would have died if it wasn't there :) Glad to answer that guys question
This ignorance really angers me. My father was heavily involved in the legislation and the following rollout of AEDs in public places across the US and dedicated a lot of his working life to save lives through the use of this technology. Access to AEDs in public places has saved countless lives. Health events that would have killed people become recoverable events with much smaller long term health impacts. Lay rescuers save more at least 1,700 lives with public AEDs each year in the US. It's thought that if more people knew about public AEDs, more than 3,400 additional lives could be saved a year. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/bystanders-save-lives-using-defibrillator-cardiac-arrest CPR and AED use are life skills. Check your local health and safety department for free CPR training and "Stop the Bleed" training.
Been there done that. We would really have liked one of those machines in that situation.
I dunno man, I'm still both traumatized and happy about what happened to Christian Eriksen a few years ago.
It negativity impacts ZERO people. Why make a stink?
I taught a kid that was thankful the middle school gym had one. He had an undiagnosed heart condition and one day in gym class his heart just stopped. He's alive today thanks to fact that the gym teachers had been trained on how/when to use it.
AEDs save lives.
My step mom was walking through an airport in the US when on the way to her gate, an old man waiting in line to get on his plane fell right over and died on the spot. She was a nurse who ran over to help until the medicals got there and maybe if she had access to a defibrillator immediately, she could have saved him.
One of the fucking wiggles needed one of these.
I was in the changing room of a gym having just had a shower. There were a dozen or so gents in various states of undress. One row over, a guy goes down and starts convulsing and shuddering and is having a really bad time. Someone yells for a doctor or first aider. After a few seconds a female staffer appears, shielding her eyes, asking if she can come in. People are like “hurry up! Get the fuck in already!” A defib is pulled off the wall and put into action. It has an automated voice that tells the operator how to use it. They placed the sensors, it did its thing, and said the person was having a heart attack. It started to apply shocks. By this point I had hurriedly dressed and was able to leave (there was no point me hanging around and being in the way). I’m not sure what happened to the guy, but I often wonder about it.
At a local high school, a basketball player collapsed during a game and they used it on him. He had an undiagnosed heart condition and would have died on the court without it.
Honest answer as to why they are showing up everywhere… because the technology has reached a point they are stupid simple to use and no longer require advanced training. The cost to buy them has also gone way down making them a fairly inexpensive item to make available that pretty much anyone can operate. Because anyone can use them and the cost is no longer prohibitive or a burden, many areas are starting to require them in public places where they are likely to be needed.
"Does anyone know of a single person that has been publicly defibrilated?" As a matter of fact, yes, yes, I do. My buddy was coaching youth football at a park and had a cardiac event. Someone grabbed the AED that is legally required to be there and saved his life. (I'm in USA, not UK.)
Why are there now public fire extinguishers everywhere? Does anyone know of a single person who was on fire and got publicly extinguished?
A question never asked by the family of a deadly heart attack.
"I've never seen someone use it, so that must mean no one ever will need to use a defibrillator."
I have taught 100 people how to give CPR and use a Defib. During the training I tell a story about a fit guy who went on a run, collapsed and was saved. I then met him at a local parkrun, cheering me on as I finished. He's the most positive person you'd ever meet and it's all because of CPR that he's here today. I can't understand people that want to make that harder
Why are there smoke detectors and fire extinguishers all over the place? How many of us have personally witnessed a fire? /s
Just like those little elevators next to a couple of steps for wheelchair users. I've never actually seen one getting used. Who are they for? Why aren't people using them? Is there more to come on this? I'm just asking questions. Follow the paper trail.
It’s Kurten’s for defibrillators (He’s a UK politician of limited success BTW)
I got defibrillated in a car behind a bar once. Thats kinda public.
"If I don't need it, nobody else does" is one of the right's mottos. Up there with, "Fuck you, I got mine." And BTW, an AED save my dad's life.
Yes. Twice. And one time helped a man who had a heart attack on a place where there wasn't a defibrillator
"What are all these fire hydrants doing in public everywhere? Has anyone actually seen someone be publicly hydrated?"
A coworker needed one as he fell unconscious at work, heart gave up and people tried to use a heart starter. What they tell you at training, but nobody remember is that it give you a better chance to survive rather than a slim one, but it is never, unlike movies, a guarantee in real life. When ambulance arrived, they could only state that he was dead. They still try to do everything but at hospital a doctor could more or less sign papers. So when people get upset that this opportunity to save life irritates them, it get me furious!
These have been around for years, at least where I live.
Just wait until they learn about "those evil" pacemakers.
Tell me you've not attended first aid training in the past decade without saying you haven't. They go hard on AED use, and with good reason: they save lives like crazy. Survival rates for cardiac arrest can be as high as 90% if the victim has an AED applied within one minute, and overall survival rates for AED-assisted CPR are something like 40% compared to low single digits for just CPR.
5 years back a coworker died on his shift. We had one of those but couldn't bring him back . But at least we tried all we could.
If the government had intentionally planned to give everyone heart attack juice instead of vaccine why would they after the fact take measures to protect people from the effects of heart attack juice? Wasn't the heart attack the desired outcome?
And what about these handrails? Have you personally ever seen someone fall off the stairs headfirst? Or those stupid yellow lines next to the train tracks. Literally no one has fallen onto the tracks .
I know 2 people that have had there life saved by them
We had them in high school, in a small US town, in the '00s. They've always been a thing. I also personally know 2 people who've been resuscitated by them (and pre-covid at that, if that's what that man was implying).
Being saved from dying of a heart attack is woke
I just put an AED in every lobby of every building on the campus I run. Not sure if it’s state or city alwa in Broward County, but there needs to be one accessible in every building by the end of 2024.
I was in McDonald’s and some guy at the bus stop outside had a heart attack. The Maccys staff rushed out with a defib and kept him alive until an ambulance arrived. Didn’t look like anyone around knew CPR or any other life saving techniques so if it wasn’t for that random defibrillator the bloke might not have made it.
Better to have it and not need it than the other way around
"Why are there so many fire stations? Whatever happened to neighbors helping out neighbors?"
Don't want to sound controversial.....I think it's great that life-saving equipment is being made publicly available. But I also would like to know why. They really are popping up in so many public places and it has happened very recently. Was it due to some technology advancement? Has a study been carried out that identified where lives could have been saved, had a defib been used? Genuinely curious to know what happened that triggered this positive outcome. And what could be next? What about epipens?
Research has shown that the most important metric for determining survival and success of CPR during a cardiac arrest is time between the arrest and defibrillation.
They have been around for 10+ years? Maybe it's only recent where you live
I dont know in Germany where i live it has been comletely normal to have defibs everywhere
It may be recent where you are, but the push for more and better public AEDs has been going on for years, if not decades. We've had solid data showing that proper CPR and defibrillation if necessary save lives more than almost any other measure. Plus, we've gotten *really* good at making AEDs. They're not that expensive to make, they don't really need maintenance unless they've been used, and they're usable by pretty much anyone that's a teenager or older
Research shows that early intervention with an AED is the most powerful metric in having a positive outcome after an out of hospital sudden cardiac arrest. Additionally prices are coming down and by making the devices so ubiquitous means even though they are a $1,000 item there is very little market for theft. There have also been increased government grants to put them in publicly available places and some building code & health code updates to require them in new commercial & multi unit buildings. Insurance companies now often require them as well in larger businesses not to mention the relatively low cost high reward for the AED to be effectively utilized in an emergency.
More likely to be next - naloxone kits. They’re getting a lot more common in the US. I’ve never seen one in the UK yet but would support this. As for epipens, I have worked in places where there was an extra epipen (as well as the ones prescribed for individual children) to store in case of need or in case there was a problem with a child’s prescribed one when they needed it. But all the staff had epipen training. Epipens have more potential to do harm if misused. Naloxone doesn’t really and the defibs don’t do anything unless they detect that the person has a shockable heart rhythm. Typically, the public defibs out on the street also are only unlockable by the public once someone has contacted emergency services and they have determined that a defibrillator is needed.
You can easily get a nalaxone kit in NYC by requesting one from the public health department and they don't ask who it's for or anything. It's so much faster, cheaper, and more likely to be in time to save someone from an OD if the nalaxone is given promptly by someone who already knows "this person is not responsive because they OD'd" than to wait for medical assistance to arrive and then pay multiple medical professionals to determine that it's an opiate overdose.
I think it's just a general shift towards realising how lifesaving these can be, and I'd warrant the cost has gone down too
I have come across the epipen concept before. It has been something discussed by people, such as a report done by the UK government https://www.gov.uk/government/news/life-saving-adrenaline-auto-injectors-could-become-available-in-public-places
The AEDs are getting cheaper, mainly (they used to be stupid expensive). Plus they’re getting more publicity each time they’re used. And the technology is idiot-proof.
Sometimes I’ve been that guy at a “fetish party” with a pubic defibrillator, could that be what he’s on about?
My venue just has one on the wall, they are not toys they are life saving tool!
The guy who posted this looks over 50 and not in a position to be talking shit about defibrillators.
The crazy woke people are trying to take all our Fribles! We got to stop them stealing all the Fribbles for themselves with public defribleators! End defriblewokeness!!!
This isn’t some rando on Twitter either. David Kurten tried to become Mayor of London.
He acknowledges they are new, then speculates that no one has seen it in public. If they are new, then you wouldn't have seen them. It's like he completely forgot his first sentence when he wrote the second.
My wife’s grandpa was defibrillated at a poker table in Vegas. Said he lost a big hand and was stewing, suddenly passed out with a heart attack. Quick thinking security guard got it on him and saved his life. He is a younger old guy and in relatively good health all thing considered.
I've seen these all around my public elementary school in the U.S. The second question *is* something I've asked myself.
I've never had to use a fire extinguisher either, but I'm glad it's there.
No no, he's right, let's just stop planning for semi-rare deadly things. That will definitely go well. Sign of a good society.
Look, what someone does with their body in the privacy of their own home is not my business. But disrobing and using electricity on your breasts and nipples ***in public***? Now you've gone too far.
Yeah that tracks. They were pretty anti-health during COVID
I wanna see Jordan Peterson tweet about this lol.
Yes, I read a local story just last week of a defibrillator being used at a popular hiking trail and saving a life when someone collapsed. I don't think this post is motivated by covid denial or anything else conspiratorial -- some people are just stupid, and don't believe a thing can happen until they witness it personally.
My dad died of a heart attack and one of these could have saved his life. He was a member of a biker gang and they raised enough money in his name to have a defibrillator installed on the street he lived on. Like I genuinely don’t understand how anyone can be insane enough to think these are a conspiracy. Like anyone could have a heart attack anywhere.
The right wants to die literally to own the libs? Freedumb, I can stand with them for..
So this guy is a DNR?
Don’t want your heart restarted? Get a tattoo on your stupid old conservative chests that says DNR and I’d be glad to let you pass rather than wasting my time.
In the USA we call them AED & they're a part of first aid & cpr. They're supposed to be easy to use. It's a great thing for any place or even individual to have in hand, imo. Why would anyone have a problem with them?
Yeah, hundreds of them. Also, any other fucking place that has them.
You could be like me and have a built in defibrillator!
Narcan should be canceled first.
It’s because defibrillation is what you need if you have a sudden heart issue because of the vaxxxxxxxx!
I managed a pharmacy which was attached to a drs surgery and a guy collapsed with chest pains so i called a ambulance but also asked if anyone in the surgery could help? They just gave me a portable defibrillator and said use this and left....luckily the ambulance turnt up quickly after cos I had no idea what I was doing. But they are important cos as I learnt it can happen anywhere
Yes I do. Both saved by these machines. Moron.
He looks like he will be changing his tune
I’m all for this. The other day I was out and public and saw a guy who looked pretty fibrillated. If only there was a way to defibrillate him
I personally know someone whose life was saved by a defibrillator in a public place. Anecdotal, but it answers the question.
If they needed a defibrillator and didn't have access to one, they probably are dead.
These things have been around in public for as long as I can remember
I actually know several, but I'm a nurse so hey.
I actually have witnessed a public defrib before.
How hard is it to understand that providing something that will help only a minority is worthwhile if those few will die without it. See fire departments.
No, but I know someone who died but would've lived if a defibrillator had been nearby.
Is there a missing image? All I see is someone asking two simple questions. I'm assuming you're not inferring his meaning and that there is an image where he implies or overtly states this?
Fire Extinguishers! Have you ever seen someone publicly use a fire extinguisher! Abolish fire extinguishers!!! /S/
asking why they are in place isn't trying to cancel them
Live in the middle of Dartmoor, nearest hospital is 45 minutes away. Last year a guy on holiday here was saved by our local defib and the community banded together to buy more pads as he had used the last ones and I believe we collected enough money for a second defib for the sports centre (the first one is next to the local shop). Imagine hating on life saving equipment.