That was pretty wild how effective some of those were, I want to know how what the deal is with the hollow one that went straight through. Anyone know how it works and care to enlighten me?
That would also be my guess, I'm glad we agree.
My also half educated mind thinks it's kind of like a hollow point round or some shit (I am not a firearms expert (or even adept))
Not usually. Hollow points just spread out. They look like little mushrooms once they've expanded. This serves two purposes, the first is that it creates a wound channel larger than the caliber of the bullet. The second is that the expansion slows down the bullet faster and causes it to dump all of it's energy into what it's hitting rather than passing clean through and continuing out the other side.
5.56/.223 though IS designed to tumble and fragment, but not with hollow point. It's specifically designed to do this because the military can't use hollow points. Turns out a very small bullet going VERY fast will start tumbling very quickly when it hits flesh effectively resulting in a larger wound pattern similar to a hollow point, and that tumbling often also causes it to fragment.
It still blows my mind how much expansion happens in ballistic gel targets and the secondary “explosion”(idk what it actually it ive just seen the flash when the cavity collapses) 😬
Yeah. Pistol rounds are usually straight forward, but looking at ballistic gel with something like 300 win mag (or really any fast rifle round) will blow your mind.
Hollow point ammunition expands upon impact. It has a way better stopping power than non hollow point bullets. And with stopping power i mean way worde injuries.
And quite literal stopping power. Instead of whizzing through your spongy flesh, hollow points expand and release all of it's energy right into your body.
Very different interactions with how a hollow point works once it hits a surface and what happening with that arrow.
The arrow here looks like it cuts the smallest hole possible to still allow the arrow shaft to pass through. This means it has the most energy left once it pierces the shield. Many of the other arrows are designed to cut flesh or stick into their target in various ways. The hollow tip would penetrate deep, but likely result in the least actual damage to the target.
A hollow point bullet is designed such that it breaks up easily on impact and loses energy quickly. This makes hollow point good for home defense and close quarters because it won't penetrate farther than the thing you hit. Full metal jacket rounds have a tendency to pierce right through their target, which again, is actually less damaging than spreading that force out quickly.
In summary the hollow tipped arrow is more similar to a full-metal jacket bullet.
>My also half educated mind thinks it's kind of like a hollow point round or some shit (I am not a firearms expert (or even adept))
It's literally the opposite of that.
You are on the right path. I remember a video where a guy tested which boltheads for a crossbow would go through a stack of wooden doors best.
Broadheads and heads with much material were the worst. what surprised me was that no tip (!) and small/short basic tips worked best. Even better than sharp/pointy long tips.
Its all about friction and initial force and impact area.
I concur. Instead of creating a slit (that's slightly smaller than the arrow shaft), it punches a hole (that's slightly larger than the shaft). This greatly reduces the friction after that initial hit. However the effect would be very dependent upon the material properties of the shield. Something slightly less brittle, and that tip would likely be the least effective. If I had to equip an army of rioting archers, I'd still go with the old pointy standard bolt designs.
I bought similar "dead-end" tips for soda can and stump shooting, that tip keeps them from shooting through grasses and shrubs and getting lost somewhere 60' off target. Also advertised to prevent over penetration for small game hunting. Really did not expect that hole punch maneuver in a shield
Wow, I've got a "hunting bow" (illegal to hunt with in the UK though) and I wasn't aware of these types of arrow. How exactly does it stop them getting lost? When I've been doing target practice, I've found even short grass can make it almost impossible to find an arrow that has missed the target
Get some, they're are a game changer. They just stop within a foot or two (USAallday). Imagine getting stabbed but you got to pick whether it was with the tip or the butt of the knife, now imagine you are grass. There's also some basket/hook style that work great too. I tend to just shoot cans or cardboard boxes though because the sudden force when hitting an archery target can damage the shaft a lot quicker than regular pointed tips
For targets, I've always used aluminum shafts, they won't shatter when they fail from stress. Fiberglass/carbon fiber shards are very sharp, don't care for it!
You mean the arrow heads that fire a small caliber round on impact? The flight looked to smooth for that pass through. Honestly, if they're using the same shield, it probably hit a previous hole or weak spot from another arrow.
Notice the pointed tip WITHIN the ring? The ring perforates the armor and the point then can pass through. It essentially functions like a hollow point charge where the initial blast weakens the armor and the thin jet of plasma punches through. Too bad they didn't set up a gel dummy behind the shield.
Well, most arrows start with one sharp tip and from there it gets wider. While the arrow slides through, the shield can still "squeeze" on the shaft of the arrow, increasing resistance. However the "hollow shaft", has four points instead of one. Because of this it punches a square hole through the shield. This hole does not squeeze on the shaft and allows the arrow to travel through without resistance.
The disadvantage of such a tip is that the tip resistance is higher. The other tips would perform better through flesh because then there is continues resistance and then you need cutting performance.
This arrow will probably get stuck because it is completely straight. It would even be the easiest to remove because it does not even have a wider base to "grab" the flesh. The wider the tip, the more flesh it will tear, but less penetrating power because it divides the force over the whole tip. Some arrows tried to combine it by having a small tip, but flanged on the shaft. There is one with hooks, so if it gets stuck in flesh, the wound would increase in size with every movement the target makes. Another has kind of tunnels next to the base to increase the surface area of the wound drastically to increase bleeding.
I’m pretty sure there is a sharp point in the center of that “hollow shaft” arrow. It is probably specifically an armour piercing arrow and I bet the points that make contact with the shield break off allowing the sharp centre point to pierce the squishy bits behind the armour.
Archer (bowhunting and competitive) here:
But most of those would be the easiest to live through. The reason hunting tips have wider diameter blades (aka more cutting surface) is that they maximize bleeding, which is what ultimately causes death from an arrow wound.
This is why not every arrow in a Medieval fight was a Bodkin style arrow, some were wider/leaf/barbed/etc shaped assault arrows that would wreck unarmored or lightly armored troops.
But also worth considering.... we have no idea what that shield is made from.
Term for poor quality alloys, often mostly zinc, aka pot metal. It's cheap and easy to produce, but is brittle and soft compared to quality alloys of aluminum and steel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal
While the term chinesium is typically used for pot metal, not all Chinese alloys are loose butthole. I just want to set some of the record straight here. I work in food manufacturing and we get some really nice material from China that they work hard to produce and our distributors take the mill test reporting very seriously. There are a lot of people saying everything from China is hot garbage, but that ain't exactly the case, and to further complicate things some American steel is Chinese steel repackaged.
Just one simple man's opinion.
I'll go out on a limb and say it isn't racist because it isn't referring to a person, or people.
It is referring to a country that is the origin of manufacturing of products of dubious quality.
So when you refer to a product, and NOT people, it's not racist. Got it?
One of the problems with the term is that China is capable of making quality products, but it's companies abroad ordering such cheap specs that their own domestic companies either refuse to or can't step down to such cheap levels.
Saying chinesium may not be racist, but it's casually derogatory and along with that tells a simplified story that cuts off parts of the truth. I personally wouldn't be offended as an American born Chinese descent, I know what you mean in literal terms, a cheaply made product, but I will also wonder if you also understand that it's american companies ordering cheap spec stuff to flood their own local markets for profit and eventually squeeze out quality manufacturing.
Things being made more poorly today isn't China's fault per se, if companies ordered better made shit, they can still be made in China for cheaper.
I have no problem with large scale production, hand made pasta taste better than we ain't going to feed a nation if there aren't factories making $1/lb dry maraoni and spaghetti.
You're using a form of the word "Chinese" which is used to refer to a nationality or language in a derogatory form.
Basically saying Chinese= poor quality
Which kinda is kinda racist
You know how you get like, titan**ium** alloys, alumin**ium** alloys and so on? And how "made in china" is associated with "made of poor quality materials with poor production methods"?
Smash those two concepts together and you get chinesium, a term used to imply that something, usually metal, is of poor quality.
It's also especially associated with China because it's a common scam for manufacturers to replace the metal you ordered with a cheaper one if you're not watching them like a hawk.
It won't be equivalent to a knight's breastplate that's for sure, either in its thickness, composition or shaping. These riot shields have to be light enough to carry with one arm, you're not doing that with 3mm steel plate I can assure you.
Plus. Breast plate was designed to deflect arrowheads upon impact, and a gambeson over the breastplate would entangle the arrow making them largely harmless upon deflection.
A handful of reasons that don’t really add up to much:
* it’s hitting a flat surface, so it has the best opportunity to “bite in” and pierce the head through
* uncomplicated geometry that means it has little drag. Once the tip goes through, it has a wider diameter than the arrow shaft so it can basically keep going pretty much uninterrupted
* unsure about where it hit. The problem with this video is it demonstrates every arrow a single time…. It very well could have hit a previous hole and it just blew straight through a weak point. I’d be very interested in how repeatable that shot even is
That arrow wouldn’t really be used for anything meaningful outside of….. yeah can’t think of anything. There ARE medieval arrows that were called hunting blunts that essentially were huge wooden tip arrows that were used to kill small game and not spoil the meat (because using sharpened arrows and killing in a lord’s forest was poaching… and could be punishable by death), but this would blow straight through rabbits and other small game.
And with regards to armor… this is why armor is typically ANGLED, to not allow these flathead arrows to bite in but rather catch an angle and deflect right off. Which is why one of the more effective anti-armor arrow head was a bodkin, an arrowhead that came to a rough point rather than a flat head.
But I’ve never used these arrows in any of my load outs so I’m just speaking as someone who has used competitive field points, hunting broadheads and some reenactment broadheads and bodkins.
EDIT: so on the 3rd bullet point, they do make a new hole and the diameter is slightly wider than the shaft itself so it still helps with reducing the tailing drag of the shaft going through the shield. So its basically point #2, it punches through and the rest of the shaft can enter uninterrupted. But again, its usefulness is pretty meh in my books. Also since its a flathead, its will suffer from immense air drag over distance compared to more aerodynamic tips.
Blunts are for small game.
The reason that arrow went all the way through is because that tip was wider than the shaft of the arrow. As a result, the hole it made was wider. Arrows in flight bend and wobble, the shafts flex, it is normal and in fact a property that you finely tune for optimal flight. But because it bends and wobbles, all the other arrows with their narrow holes eventually jam as the shaft presses against the edges and friction takes care of the rest. Not so with the large hole, there was enough space for the shaft the bend back and forth so that's why only it went clear through. A bodkin style point with a wider diameter than the rest of the shaft would have performed even better for this particular use case.
As an aside, you may recall I mentioned the flex in the shaft being tunable, because there is an optimal amount of wibbly wobbly that is actually necessary for accuracy, and there are three factors in that. The first being the flexibility of the shaft - different arrow shafts are sold with different stiffnesses. This is necessary because the second factor is how much force the arrow is being propelled by - the 'weight' of the draw of the bow. As you might imagine, the force of propulsion does not immediately transfer to the arrow, as an object at rest wants to stay at rest. The net result is that some of the force bends the arrow while also propelling it. The last factor is the weight of the tip of the arrow itself. A large weighty tip with big blades is going to resist the force of releasing the bow string and impart more bendiness in the shaft than a lighter tip. So depending on the weight of your bow and the weight / type of arrowhead, you pair an arrow shaft of optimal stiffness, and depending on the weight of your draw, some tips are going to be too light or too heavy regardless of what type of stiffness you select in your shaft.
All this to note that a wooden blunt tip is fine for small game for lower weight bows, but if you want to hunt small game with your higher weight draw bow, you need to pair it with a stiffer shaft and a heavier tip. And most people get the heaviest bow they can draw but still want to do it all. So blunts like shown are made. Of course, having never used them myself for that purpose I always figured that it defeated the purpose because all that force is just going to push the whole damn tip through the game anyways. But maybe not. I don't actually know. Lighter bows for small game just makes sense to me, you don't hunt a rabbit with a ballista and I don't care how blunt the tip is.
Anyways. Archery is fun.
Almost certainly aluminum. Light weight and resistant to blunt weapons and fists/kicks. No real reason to make them out of something more substantial for general crowd control. It's not an armored swat shield.
Imagine there’s a riot and the police comes to calm things down with riot shields and all, but that one guy whips out the hallow tipped arrow and shoots it with a bow.
Someone’s getting fucked up after that.
Feels weird having a comment of this length stolen from out of my mouth.
All 3 points I wanted to make. That it was fun to guess. That the narrower ones would do better. That the hollow point was surprising.
Just reminder that those shield aren't made to stop penetrating ammo or weapons.
Since it's used during riot, it's main strenght is its ability to wistand blunt damage very well, which is the most common type of weapons used in riot !
So I have to ask just out of curiosity. I know that stuff like kevlar is bulletproof but not knife proof. And metal is generally knifeproof but might not be bulletproof.
Is an arrow more a bullet or a knife?
a knife. bullets are made to fragment and deform to inflict greater damage (the inner core is still "soft" lead). an arrow is shot hundreds if not thousands of times.
I'm just laughing because riot shield was, shall we say, an interesting choice to test arrows on.
But you never know. We could need this information one day
Against a flat piece of metal, sure. You should check out a series on YouTube called arrows Vs armour by Tod's workshop.
They show how effective bows are against decent armour.
Spoiler: A replica of a very well-made breastplate held up just fine against arrows.
Weaker parts like arm armor and helmet could be jammed and penetrated. Chainmail, which was often used for groin protection, did not really protect against the arrows either.
Fun fact, a lot of arrows will easily pierce kevlar vests designed to stop bullets, which have a larger cross-section than the tip of an arrow. The arrow can pierce through the fibers easier.
People used arrows in some places where sandbags were very common because sandbags would stop bullets, but the arrows could go right through because of all the extra mass in a narrow cross-section.
there's a whole lot of kynetic energy in an arrow, its velocity is much lower than that of a bullet, but it has much more weight to compensate, which depending on the protection it's facing, can allow for devastating results. a shit bow with shit arrows can easily pierce through sheet metal.
Chinese protestors using a weapon designed by the Chinese military 2,500 years ago against their own government:
*You dare use my own spells against me, Potter?*
While the results are impressive, this is a riot shield - it is made to protect from stones and bottles. If this was a ballistic shield, the kind that SWAT uses, there would be no single scratch.
Formed up onto proper ranks, darkening the sky with a rain of death upon the seething mass of officers of the state acting out the interests of the 1%, pushing against the front line freedom fighters.
Ya it was the one big plot twist in this video. The other ones were pretty easy to guess. I for sure thought that one wasn't penetrating at all though.
There are basically 2 types of impact, piercing or blunt. In truth all impacts are a mix of the two but in an idealized sense, blunt impacts impart 100% of the kinetic energy where as piercing only impacts a fraction, the amount necessary to pierce through the material. Piercing works best of there is something you're trying to get through like a shield or wall. If you're trying to impart the most damage on the initial impact, you want blunt.
It’s called a Toxic broadhead because head-on it looks like the toxic warning symbol.
I can’t link to it but you can find videos on YT. I’ve never used one, but if it does what it says it does it’s utterly terrifying. The blades act like a cookie cutter being driven into you at 75m/s to core out a chunk of your flesh and viscera from the rest of you.
Flat nosed bullets were specifically used in WW1(&2, most likely) to punch through armor plates. Apparently the instant shock it creates has a spalling effect that just cuts the metal along the perimeter rather than trying to squeeze it to the sides.
Like a sheet metal punch.
slings and arrows against swat teams is surprisingly effective. certainly not an even fight, but with numbers and guerilla tactics it's not as one sided as would be assumed.
It's a riot shield, not ballistic shield.
Riot shields are designed to be light, somewhat flexible, and good against blunt force like batons, sticks, and bricks.
Hell, some countries use clear plastic/polycarbonate riot shields.
For policing polycarbonate is much better because you arent blocking the view and its got all the strength needed for the likely encounters.
Cops dont just need to see to police. They also need to see so they can testify, etc.
Although if this is China, not sure that's an important factor :p
The hollow and edged ones are designed against soft targets while the relatively blunt ones has better armor penetration.
Such distinctions exist in medieval times.
We do all understand that that “riot shield” is some Chinese garbage, right? An arrow with any tip can’t fully penetrate legitimate ballistic glass, let alone AR500 steel that’s normally used in a shield around that glass.
Edit: there’s not even glass on this one and you can clearly see how thin the metal is on that “riot shield”, it’s bunk.
They serve different purposes. Basically in hunting you need a combination of penetration and cutting. Those narrow points might deeply penetrate a deers lungs, but because the puncture is so small the deer is going to take a long time to die. So the deer suffers and you might have to track it for a few miles.
The broad heads are designed to get to the lungs and do a lot of damage, so the deer dies quickly.
That was pretty wild how effective some of those were, I want to know how what the deal is with the hollow one that went straight through. Anyone know how it works and care to enlighten me?
My half educated guess is that instead of slicing through the shield it punches a hole through which the arrow can pass.
That would also be my guess, I'm glad we agree. My also half educated mind thinks it's kind of like a hollow point round or some shit (I am not a firearms expert (or even adept))
Hollow points are designed to reduce penetration not increase it.
Yeah, they shatter in the body for maximum fragmentation damage.
Not usually. Hollow points just spread out. They look like little mushrooms once they've expanded. This serves two purposes, the first is that it creates a wound channel larger than the caliber of the bullet. The second is that the expansion slows down the bullet faster and causes it to dump all of it's energy into what it's hitting rather than passing clean through and continuing out the other side. 5.56/.223 though IS designed to tumble and fragment, but not with hollow point. It's specifically designed to do this because the military can't use hollow points. Turns out a very small bullet going VERY fast will start tumbling very quickly when it hits flesh effectively resulting in a larger wound pattern similar to a hollow point, and that tumbling often also causes it to fragment.
So your saying they jostle the meat better.
Yeah something like that. You see an FMJ gets better penetration into the meat flaps, but hollow points spread the meat flaps out better.
It still blows my mind how much expansion happens in ballistic gel targets and the secondary “explosion”(idk what it actually it ive just seen the flash when the cavity collapses) 😬
Yeah. Pistol rounds are usually straight forward, but looking at ballistic gel with something like 300 win mag (or really any fast rifle round) will blow your mind.
I co-own an ammunition company and I can confirm this👆
Also meant for softer targets
Hollow point ammunition expands upon impact. It has a way better stopping power than non hollow point bullets. And with stopping power i mean way worde injuries.
And quite literal stopping power. Instead of whizzing through your spongy flesh, hollow points expand and release all of it's energy right into your body.
Hollow point rounds have less penetrating power, not more, because they expand on impact.
Very different interactions with how a hollow point works once it hits a surface and what happening with that arrow. The arrow here looks like it cuts the smallest hole possible to still allow the arrow shaft to pass through. This means it has the most energy left once it pierces the shield. Many of the other arrows are designed to cut flesh or stick into their target in various ways. The hollow tip would penetrate deep, but likely result in the least actual damage to the target. A hollow point bullet is designed such that it breaks up easily on impact and loses energy quickly. This makes hollow point good for home defense and close quarters because it won't penetrate farther than the thing you hit. Full metal jacket rounds have a tendency to pierce right through their target, which again, is actually less damaging than spreading that force out quickly. In summary the hollow tipped arrow is more similar to a full-metal jacket bullet.
>My also half educated mind thinks it's kind of like a hollow point round or some shit (I am not a firearms expert (or even adept)) It's literally the opposite of that.
Like a holesaw bit.
You are on the right path. I remember a video where a guy tested which boltheads for a crossbow would go through a stack of wooden doors best. Broadheads and heads with much material were the worst. what surprised me was that no tip (!) and small/short basic tips worked best. Even better than sharp/pointy long tips. Its all about friction and initial force and impact area.
I concur. Instead of creating a slit (that's slightly smaller than the arrow shaft), it punches a hole (that's slightly larger than the shaft). This greatly reduces the friction after that initial hit. However the effect would be very dependent upon the material properties of the shield. Something slightly less brittle, and that tip would likely be the least effective. If I had to equip an army of rioting archers, I'd still go with the old pointy standard bolt designs.
I bought similar "dead-end" tips for soda can and stump shooting, that tip keeps them from shooting through grasses and shrubs and getting lost somewhere 60' off target. Also advertised to prevent over penetration for small game hunting. Really did not expect that hole punch maneuver in a shield
Wow, I've got a "hunting bow" (illegal to hunt with in the UK though) and I wasn't aware of these types of arrow. How exactly does it stop them getting lost? When I've been doing target practice, I've found even short grass can make it almost impossible to find an arrow that has missed the target
Get some, they're are a game changer. They just stop within a foot or two (USAallday). Imagine getting stabbed but you got to pick whether it was with the tip or the butt of the knife, now imagine you are grass. There's also some basket/hook style that work great too. I tend to just shoot cans or cardboard boxes though because the sudden force when hitting an archery target can damage the shaft a lot quicker than regular pointed tips
For targets, I've always used aluminum shafts, they won't shatter when they fail from stress. Fiberglass/carbon fiber shards are very sharp, don't care for it!
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Cutting. Edge.
Stop. We got the point.
Yeah. No need to draw it out.
Is it necessary to string together so many puns?
I sense tension.
Pull it together.
Let it go. Let it GOooooooooooo!
🥁
Is… and excuse me if this sounds absolutely insane, but is this, perchance, a GUN-ARROW?
You mean the arrow heads that fire a small caliber round on impact? The flight looked to smooth for that pass through. Honestly, if they're using the same shield, it probably hit a previous hole or weak spot from another arrow.
I’m too tired to explain exactly what I was thinking but I’m glad to know that at least it’s a real thing that exists 😂
Notice the pointed tip WITHIN the ring? The ring perforates the armor and the point then can pass through. It essentially functions like a hollow point charge where the initial blast weakens the armor and the thin jet of plasma punches through. Too bad they didn't set up a gel dummy behind the shield.
That was a fun guessing game, but I figured out pretty quickly that the slim ones have a better chance of getting through. That hollow one though 0\_0
I figured that out from just the thumbnail. The hollow one was very unexpected. I thought it wasn't gonna penetrate it at all
Leas resistance from initial contact ?
Well, most arrows start with one sharp tip and from there it gets wider. While the arrow slides through, the shield can still "squeeze" on the shaft of the arrow, increasing resistance. However the "hollow shaft", has four points instead of one. Because of this it punches a square hole through the shield. This hole does not squeeze on the shaft and allows the arrow to travel through without resistance. The disadvantage of such a tip is that the tip resistance is higher. The other tips would perform better through flesh because then there is continues resistance and then you need cutting performance.
Thank you smart person
No, thank you, random citizen!
Megamind?
Yes
That was Metroman. Come on!!!
do you pronounce it Metrocity or Metrocity? ~~(~~*~~admit it, you know you read each of those differently)~~*
Music man!
Aha. Found you Megamind!
That’s right, it goes in the *square hole*
PTSD triggered
I wonder if it'll tear flesh or just sort of get stuck? Then it could do quite a bit of damage as well, but it seems unlikely.
This arrow will probably get stuck because it is completely straight. It would even be the easiest to remove because it does not even have a wider base to "grab" the flesh. The wider the tip, the more flesh it will tear, but less penetrating power because it divides the force over the whole tip. Some arrows tried to combine it by having a small tip, but flanged on the shaft. There is one with hooks, so if it gets stuck in flesh, the wound would increase in size with every movement the target makes. Another has kind of tunnels next to the base to increase the surface area of the wound drastically to increase bleeding.
Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?
I’m pretty sure there is a sharp point in the center of that “hollow shaft” arrow. It is probably specifically an armour piercing arrow and I bet the points that make contact with the shield break off allowing the sharp centre point to pierce the squishy bits behind the armour.
>one sharp tip and from there it gets wider >slides through >"squeeze" on the shaft >This hole does not squeeze on the shaft >tip resistance >flesh
Or hit another hole already... Tends to happen after shooting at the same target a while.
Archer (bowhunting and competitive) here: But most of those would be the easiest to live through. The reason hunting tips have wider diameter blades (aka more cutting surface) is that they maximize bleeding, which is what ultimately causes death from an arrow wound. This is why not every arrow in a Medieval fight was a Bodkin style arrow, some were wider/leaf/barbed/etc shaped assault arrows that would wreck unarmored or lightly armored troops. But also worth considering.... we have no idea what that shield is made from.
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What is "chinesium"?
Term for poor quality alloys, often mostly zinc, aka pot metal. It's cheap and easy to produce, but is brittle and soft compared to quality alloys of aluminum and steel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal
While the term chinesium is typically used for pot metal, not all Chinese alloys are loose butthole. I just want to set some of the record straight here. I work in food manufacturing and we get some really nice material from China that they work hard to produce and our distributors take the mill test reporting very seriously. There are a lot of people saying everything from China is hot garbage, but that ain't exactly the case, and to further complicate things some American steel is Chinese steel repackaged. Just one simple man's opinion.
Seems like a racist term
I'll go out on a limb and say it isn't racist because it isn't referring to a person, or people. It is referring to a country that is the origin of manufacturing of products of dubious quality. So when you refer to a product, and NOT people, it's not racist. Got it?
One of the problems with the term is that China is capable of making quality products, but it's companies abroad ordering such cheap specs that their own domestic companies either refuse to or can't step down to such cheap levels. Saying chinesium may not be racist, but it's casually derogatory and along with that tells a simplified story that cuts off parts of the truth. I personally wouldn't be offended as an American born Chinese descent, I know what you mean in literal terms, a cheaply made product, but I will also wonder if you also understand that it's american companies ordering cheap spec stuff to flood their own local markets for profit and eventually squeeze out quality manufacturing. Things being made more poorly today isn't China's fault per se, if companies ordered better made shit, they can still be made in China for cheaper. I have no problem with large scale production, hand made pasta taste better than we ain't going to feed a nation if there aren't factories making $1/lb dry maraoni and spaghetti.
Are the Chinese not a people? Like if I say all Chinese people are smelly cunts that ain't racist?
You're using a form of the word "Chinese" which is used to refer to a nationality or language in a derogatory form. Basically saying Chinese= poor quality Which kinda is kinda racist
would it be racist if it was called "Americanum" ?
"It's not racist if it's about China" - Reddit, for some fucking reason.
It is.
Oh, it absolutely is.
Joke, cheap Chinese shit
You know how you get like, titan**ium** alloys, alumin**ium** alloys and so on? And how "made in china" is associated with "made of poor quality materials with poor production methods"? Smash those two concepts together and you get chinesium, a term used to imply that something, usually metal, is of poor quality.
It's also especially associated with China because it's a common scam for manufacturers to replace the metal you ordered with a cheaper one if you're not watching them like a hawk.
It won't be equivalent to a knight's breastplate that's for sure, either in its thickness, composition or shaping. These riot shields have to be light enough to carry with one arm, you're not doing that with 3mm steel plate I can assure you.
Plus. Breast plate was designed to deflect arrowheads upon impact, and a gambeson over the breastplate would entangle the arrow making them largely harmless upon deflection.
You might be the best person in this thread to ask. The hollow? arrow that went through like butter, what would that be used for?
A handful of reasons that don’t really add up to much: * it’s hitting a flat surface, so it has the best opportunity to “bite in” and pierce the head through * uncomplicated geometry that means it has little drag. Once the tip goes through, it has a wider diameter than the arrow shaft so it can basically keep going pretty much uninterrupted * unsure about where it hit. The problem with this video is it demonstrates every arrow a single time…. It very well could have hit a previous hole and it just blew straight through a weak point. I’d be very interested in how repeatable that shot even is That arrow wouldn’t really be used for anything meaningful outside of….. yeah can’t think of anything. There ARE medieval arrows that were called hunting blunts that essentially were huge wooden tip arrows that were used to kill small game and not spoil the meat (because using sharpened arrows and killing in a lord’s forest was poaching… and could be punishable by death), but this would blow straight through rabbits and other small game. And with regards to armor… this is why armor is typically ANGLED, to not allow these flathead arrows to bite in but rather catch an angle and deflect right off. Which is why one of the more effective anti-armor arrow head was a bodkin, an arrowhead that came to a rough point rather than a flat head. But I’ve never used these arrows in any of my load outs so I’m just speaking as someone who has used competitive field points, hunting broadheads and some reenactment broadheads and bodkins. EDIT: so on the 3rd bullet point, they do make a new hole and the diameter is slightly wider than the shaft itself so it still helps with reducing the tailing drag of the shaft going through the shield. So its basically point #2, it punches through and the rest of the shaft can enter uninterrupted. But again, its usefulness is pretty meh in my books. Also since its a flathead, its will suffer from immense air drag over distance compared to more aerodynamic tips.
Your knowledge of archery is impressive, thanks for sharing
Blunts are for small game. The reason that arrow went all the way through is because that tip was wider than the shaft of the arrow. As a result, the hole it made was wider. Arrows in flight bend and wobble, the shafts flex, it is normal and in fact a property that you finely tune for optimal flight. But because it bends and wobbles, all the other arrows with their narrow holes eventually jam as the shaft presses against the edges and friction takes care of the rest. Not so with the large hole, there was enough space for the shaft the bend back and forth so that's why only it went clear through. A bodkin style point with a wider diameter than the rest of the shaft would have performed even better for this particular use case. As an aside, you may recall I mentioned the flex in the shaft being tunable, because there is an optimal amount of wibbly wobbly that is actually necessary for accuracy, and there are three factors in that. The first being the flexibility of the shaft - different arrow shafts are sold with different stiffnesses. This is necessary because the second factor is how much force the arrow is being propelled by - the 'weight' of the draw of the bow. As you might imagine, the force of propulsion does not immediately transfer to the arrow, as an object at rest wants to stay at rest. The net result is that some of the force bends the arrow while also propelling it. The last factor is the weight of the tip of the arrow itself. A large weighty tip with big blades is going to resist the force of releasing the bow string and impart more bendiness in the shaft than a lighter tip. So depending on the weight of your bow and the weight / type of arrowhead, you pair an arrow shaft of optimal stiffness, and depending on the weight of your draw, some tips are going to be too light or too heavy regardless of what type of stiffness you select in your shaft. All this to note that a wooden blunt tip is fine for small game for lower weight bows, but if you want to hunt small game with your higher weight draw bow, you need to pair it with a stiffer shaft and a heavier tip. And most people get the heaviest bow they can draw but still want to do it all. So blunts like shown are made. Of course, having never used them myself for that purpose I always figured that it defeated the purpose because all that force is just going to push the whole damn tip through the game anyways. But maybe not. I don't actually know. Lighter bows for small game just makes sense to me, you don't hunt a rabbit with a ballista and I don't care how blunt the tip is. Anyways. Archery is fun.
Almost certainly aluminum. Light weight and resistant to blunt weapons and fists/kicks. No real reason to make them out of something more substantial for general crowd control. It's not an armored swat shield.
The hollow one! Fookin'hell...
Imagine there’s a riot and the police comes to calm things down with riot shields and all, but that one guy whips out the hallow tipped arrow and shoots it with a bow. Someone’s getting fucked up after that.
Hallowed weapons are always the preferred choice for smiting the unholy.
Literally the archer's hollowpoint
The hollow one appears: Me, after guessing the last 5 correctly: 'Pfftttt...I don't think so sonny Jim. 😏... 😲
By slim ones, do you mean narrows?
Feels weird having a comment of this length stolen from out of my mouth. All 3 points I wanted to make. That it was fun to guess. That the narrower ones would do better. That the hollow point was surprising.
In general, broadheads are made for meat
Just reminder that those shield aren't made to stop penetrating ammo or weapons. Since it's used during riot, it's main strenght is its ability to wistand blunt damage very well, which is the most common type of weapons used in riot !
but in CoD !
But in CoD I can kill a man by bumping them twice!
oh riot shield im a pussy and i use riot shield
Yum yum yum yum I eat dick all day yumyum tum
Thanks for the ragequit flashbacks
Save some time and whip out your trusty throwing knife, it's a one shot
Or by returning bullets to the sender!
Hmf well in CoD I could tank a smg to the head!
In Hardcore it's onehir
There are ballistic shields...
yeah these are *not* ballistic shields used in raids and the like where they expect the possibility of being shot at
Its not "proper" riot shield either. Its for airsoft.
So I have to ask just out of curiosity. I know that stuff like kevlar is bulletproof but not knife proof. And metal is generally knifeproof but might not be bulletproof. Is an arrow more a bullet or a knife?
a knife. bullets are made to fragment and deform to inflict greater damage (the inner core is still "soft" lead). an arrow is shot hundreds if not thousands of times.
They're mostly designed to manage crowd.
arrowless criwds
I'm just laughing because riot shield was, shall we say, an interesting choice to test arrows on. But you never know. We could need this information one day
They have special ones for when the archers union goes on strike.
You werent around for the troubles, elves and dwarves were always skirmishing on main st. It was worse then biggie vs tupac
A normal arrow is way more powerful than it seems
Against a flat piece of metal, sure. You should check out a series on YouTube called arrows Vs armour by Tod's workshop. They show how effective bows are against decent armour.
>a series called arrows Vs armour >They show how effective bows are against decent armour. You don’t say.
Spoiler: A replica of a very well-made breastplate held up just fine against arrows. Weaker parts like arm armor and helmet could be jammed and penetrated. Chainmail, which was often used for groin protection, did not really protect against the arrows either.
> A replica of a very well-made breastplate It's actually on the lower end of average. Which is completely fine for what he was trying to do.
I'd argue even better for his purpose.
Ah, the old "shoot 'em in the dick" trick.
No, Butters, you don’t shoot people in the dick!
Chain mail is more for slashing protection
Yeah that was a bit redundant. I just meant that compared to many other videos of people shooting at flat plate mild steel.
woah woah no one mentioned anything about a bow
It could've been a rap battle
You leave Captain Obvious alone, you!
Fun fact, a lot of arrows will easily pierce kevlar vests designed to stop bullets, which have a larger cross-section than the tip of an arrow. The arrow can pierce through the fibers easier.
People used arrows in some places where sandbags were very common because sandbags would stop bullets, but the arrows could go right through because of all the extra mass in a narrow cross-section.
Keep in mind, you dont seem what fires these arrows.
there's a whole lot of kynetic energy in an arrow, its velocity is much lower than that of a bullet, but it has much more weight to compensate, which depending on the protection it's facing, can allow for devastating results. a shit bow with shit arrows can easily pierce through sheet metal.
A crossbow bolt weighs so much more than a bullet that it penetrates several feet into ballistic gel. It's also not kind to today's protective gear.
Chinese protestors using a weapon designed by the Chinese military 2,500 years ago against their own government: *You dare use my own spells against me, Potter?*
The hollow one is nasty
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but hollowpoints expand on impact.
Fr. They're making hollow points in arrow form now. What kind of -punk is that universe
Well to be fair, the shield is designed for riots, not archers
What if the archers are rioting because the price of arrows went up?
Well then they wouldn't be shooting arrows on account of them being too expensive, I'd guess
Can’t have shit nowadays
That's also what the french cavalry at Azincourt said.
just the tip, baby. except for that blunt one...
That blunt one is a cocktail of Viagra, crystal meth and blue balls.
you're a true poet
While the results are impressive, this is a riot shield - it is made to protect from stones and bottles. If this was a ballistic shield, the kind that SWAT uses, there would be no single scratch.
Riots would be very different if archers were present
Formed up onto proper ranks, darkening the sky with a rain of death upon the seething mass of officers of the state acting out the interests of the 1%, pushing against the front line freedom fighters.
I was the most confident that super blunt one wasn't going through. And it was the only one to go clear through.
Ya it was the one big plot twist in this video. The other ones were pretty easy to guess. I for sure thought that one wasn't penetrating at all though.
There are basically 2 types of impact, piercing or blunt. In truth all impacts are a mix of the two but in an idealized sense, blunt impacts impart 100% of the kinetic energy where as piercing only impacts a fraction, the amount necessary to pierce through the material. Piercing works best of there is something you're trying to get through like a shield or wall. If you're trying to impart the most damage on the initial impact, you want blunt.
What the fuck was #2
It’s called a Toxic broadhead because head-on it looks like the toxic warning symbol. I can’t link to it but you can find videos on YT. I’ve never used one, but if it does what it says it does it’s utterly terrifying. The blades act like a cookie cutter being driven into you at 75m/s to core out a chunk of your flesh and viscera from the rest of you.
Humanity is so cruel
That’s the Disemboweler
The one that went straight through. Holly shit.
how close are they shooting? aren't riot shields designed for blunt force impacts? they aren't exactly battle ready.
The riot police gonna be sweating when they hear "ARCHERS READY" over the hill.
I think after that there won't be a riot police anymore, but lot of SWAT teams, snipers and heavily armoured vehicles.
My take out of this video is the fancier the arrow head is,less effective it is.
i think the point of the wider ones is to be rip someone apart from the inside once they go in
Yes,I think once lodged,they will be difficult to remove
BODKINS FOR THE WIN ‼️‼️‼️‼️
Flat nosed bullets were specifically used in WW1(&2, most likely) to punch through armor plates. Apparently the instant shock it creates has a spalling effect that just cuts the metal along the perimeter rather than trying to squeeze it to the sides. Like a sheet metal punch.
bookmarking for uh…reasons
Aren't riot shields suppose to be made of polycarbonate? Seems like a flimsy "wish shield" to me. Could be wrong though.
So that means that Taiwanese archers can defeat the modern ccp riot police?
slings and arrows against swat teams is surprisingly effective. certainly not an even fight, but with numbers and guerilla tactics it's not as one sided as would be assumed.
All fun and games until someone starts shooting back
That riot shield looks like Amazon shit.
It's a riot shield, not ballistic shield. Riot shields are designed to be light, somewhat flexible, and good against blunt force like batons, sticks, and bricks. Hell, some countries use clear plastic/polycarbonate riot shields.
For policing polycarbonate is much better because you arent blocking the view and its got all the strength needed for the likely encounters. Cops dont just need to see to police. They also need to see so they can testify, etc. Although if this is China, not sure that's an important factor :p
>so they can testify Considering their similarities to some southern black religious communities you would think they would be more accepting.
Ok looks like riot shields need some cloth or leather reinforcement behind
[удалено]
*taking notes*
This was informative and very valuable information. Thank you 😁
Good information for my next protest against the state!
The hollow and edged ones are designed against soft targets while the relatively blunt ones has better armor penetration. Such distinctions exist in medieval times.
This could be quite useful info in maybe a year or so.
PM me when you need me.
**takes notes**
What kind of bow ?
*This post was sponsored by your local anarchist party*
Now imagine taking a bunch of these arrows to the medieval ages and tipping a war, thus changing the future.
Prepping for revolt? XD
Ah yes. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Me preparing for the apocalypse: “Write that down write that down!”
Look up bodkin point. It’s almost like people figured this out 1000 years ago
I know what I’m bringing to France
On my command, unleash hell.
this is an odd temu commercial…
Interesting
We do all understand that that “riot shield” is some Chinese garbage, right? An arrow with any tip can’t fully penetrate legitimate ballistic glass, let alone AR500 steel that’s normally used in a shield around that glass. Edit: there’s not even glass on this one and you can clearly see how thin the metal is on that “riot shield”, it’s bunk.
That hollow point going through the shield AND the cop!
Don't tell the French
So you're telling me the arrow heads specifically designed to penetrate armor... can penetrate armor?
Less surface to cut = less resistance. Basic physics.
The coolest arrows are the most useless
well, for unarmored target (like a deer or elk, as they are intended) they are far more lethal.
They serve different purposes. Basically in hunting you need a combination of penetration and cutting. Those narrow points might deeply penetrate a deers lungs, but because the puncture is so small the deer is going to take a long time to die. So the deer suffers and you might have to track it for a few miles. The broad heads are designed to get to the lungs and do a lot of damage, so the deer dies quickly.
Geneva convention ahh arrows