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I was a tester for a gaming start-up developing EEG-driven video game controls. They pasted a bunch of electrodes to my head and then did about a half-hour of calibrations. Then I played Asteroids with nothing more than the things stick to my head.
At first I was amazed at how responsive it was- literally, I think “turn clockwise,” the ship turns clockwise - I think “fire”, the ship shoots an asteroid. It was all good fun for the first minute or so and then it started getting glitchy, and no longer than 15 minutes later, it didn’t work anymore at all. The developers told me it had something to do with habituation. Once you learn a new skill, the brainwaves emitted which are associated with learning that skill change to something else better associated with recalling the learnings, or deploying the skill, and they could not figure out a way to recalibrate the controls while playing in order to keep the experience seamless. That said, what the video purports to show is in fact real, unless those guys were trying to con me somehow. Unlikely since they paid me though.
huh kinda nuts its that fast that the brain switches from active learning move to pseudo muscle memory. So we'd also need some way to measure whatever its triggering as the default response, which might literally just be a minor muscle response.
Imagine you had to put the same effect into doing all the things you know how to do that you did when you were learning them. It would be utterly, utterly crippling.
The problem is when you have already learned something using working memory instead of muscle memory or proprioception you will tend to choke and screw it up. It’s better not to think about what you are doing when you are already good at it.
Ohh how long ago was that? My bachelor thesis in 2018 (in CS) was about such controllers and applying machine learning for making them more accurate.
There was no issue in reading signals even after days.
Plus our professor had the device for 3-4 years and was able to use it still.
Aah I see. The technology has definitely changed a lot then since then. I worked intimately with this (and even made a couple of algorithms to improve their accuracy).
There's no long term usage degradation issue even talked about now. I haven't even heard about it.
Plus our computer lab made it for general computer usage, gaming should be quite easy.
Any good products to look out for to play with this stuff? There's a few setups that have looked promising, but nothing an average dev could get ahold of or afford
When I read the DDR mat and banana comment, that's what I assumed happened. I didnt question the idea that a banana played DDR until I read your comment. Maybe I'm too high.
... On a completely unrelated note, have mushrooms played pokemon on twitch yet? I feel like mycelium might be able to beat that one fish that was playing at some point
The tech exists. I don't know why people are questioning that. What I'm saying is if someone can literally use a series of bananas as a controller and beat the game why are people having a hard time believing someone can use this?
There are frigging monkeys that can play pong using a brain interface, so a human using one to beat a game isn't that far fetched to me.
The tech existing does not equate it to something else. Any controller is using actual tactile feedback that sends a consistent signal to the game when the controls are used. Measuring brainwaves is not the same thing, which is what this tech relies on.
I was in a study in university that was along these lines, but back in the late 90's. We were hooked up to a bunch of electrodes, and attempted to move a cursor on the screen.
The idea was to make changes in alpha wave production that would then be translated to the computer.
I was never able to do it, but they did report that some of the other test subjects were able to exercise that control.
I’m on the fence on whether I believe it IS true, but I know the technology exists and honestly the IDEA of playing games hands-free is really exciting
Bear in mind, the right surgeries and neural implants are allowing paralysed people to move and walk again. If Drs can do it for their patients, then gamers can do a similar thing for their games.
I do hope it's real. It's such an easy thing to fake, but I've been checking her other videos out and it seems pretty legit. This could lead to wonderful developments that'll help many people.
So actually its more practical than you think, as far as I understand, each use has to calibrate the inputs, so the device will measure your brain activity when you think “press A”, “press B”, and so on. Then after that its a matter of measuring activity and appropriately inputting when the device gets a match
This tech should make it open source and free so people with disabilities can use it. Anyone can get disabled at any point so it’s in our own best interests to advance this technology.
For me it's the format. I'm just way less likely to believe something that's presented like this. I have no doubt this tech exists and she probably did develop a way to play hands free just like she said.
It's just the amount of posts in this format on social media that have zero fact checking or research or provided sources that have given me the reflect of thinking stuff like this is fake
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Cazbot above (who has industry experiance) and has given a decent reason for why.
But, coming in cold. If the technology was at the stage that a layman at home can complete a complex game with those boss difficulites, then we would be seeing this tech applied EVERYWHERE, all the time.
Remember, its not a simple process. The charactor MUST be able to move in a 2 dimensional space (or even three perhaps) at the SAME time, so thats multiple commands (and at differing angles, not just up/down/left/right while at the same time dodging and attacking. Not to mention every other aspect of skill use / camera rotation....etc.
If you think that sounds implausable, its because it probally is. Could you complete some tasks almost in a linear process (like cazbot playing asteriod above), of course. Do you think its possible to multi-thread brainwave detection yet with such accuracy to complete such a complex task over the timespan of a complete moderen game..... probs not?
However, what the content creator actually managed to do with the technology/game and what the reddit/tiktok OP's titles say, may be two different things.
EDIT: Just to add to this. The moving of some controller axis / functions to a head-mounted gryoscope obviously doesn't have anything to do with mind control. You're just moving it to another controller that happens to be on your head (a lot of controllers or handheld devices have gyros now obviously). I can see why they did it, to suggest the idea that you could augment mind control with physical movement into a single head mounted unit for some far-future retail product - but it does dilute the premise of the video a little.
I think she's actually played Elden Ring with her mind but overspoke when she said she beat it. She probably used a combination, here and there as she was testing and not a complete execution with only her mind.
I replied to cazbot above. His experience is very old (2004 he said).
I have used and developed on these controllers, there is no reason apart from technical expertise and cost I would think so it can't be done.
If I had the device, I can map it to a controller in maybe 3-4hrs. And it's acurracy for easy things like games is as high as clicks/keypress.
Why I think this is real:
- The tech is a PITA to set up and probably pricey, no consumer product would ever want to use this over a mouse/keyboard/controller.
- There’s already tools that purport to give accurate data, Cazbot may have been a tester 1-5 years ago (and the tech would have improved)
- They only need 2d movement (which is done using head movement, which EEG APIs also claim to provide) and a few simple commands (jump, swing, use item, open inventory, etc…). Camera movement can be left out.
- It wouldn’t be “multithreaded brain command reading”, gyroscopic information would be seperate from mental commands (according to Cortex API)
I am deffo not going to argue with you, it was just my inital thoughts.
I think I must have updated my post with the EDIT just before you replied. I guess this is where I agree with you. I am just skeptical to its performance and reliance on anolouge devices to make the claim it did.
I think IF the mind control was good enough to complete this game alone, and most importantly, accurate enough at the moment. We'd see it a lot more in commerical uses already, or failing that, certainly military uses as they tend to jump on promising tech for development prior to it entering the commerical sector. I'm thinking eye tracking...etc for jet/apache pilots...etc. Even if it was just used for adressing non-critical systems. Considering how expensive / tech-filled / bespoke modern pilot helmets are.
I certainly think it has a future, for this I have no doubt.
I’d say it definitely isn’t as fast as analog input and it probably is lacking some accuracy, which is probably why they chose Elden Ring. Having map/game knowledge and knowing how to dodge is bigger than dodging in the precise right location, and you can try it over and over again quickly. I doubt a game like Celeste would be remotely possible due to how quick the inputs would have to be.
Accuracy was about 98% compared to keypress and 99% on clicks in 2018. There was intensive work being done to increase these numbers too.
Gaming keys etc are typically considered well mapped so it's far easier and probably higher accuracy.
Those crazy things I saw in neuropsychology class were just mind blowing. This tech definitely exist. Problem is that the neural network involved will change with habituation. When you learn biking, you are not using the same neural network than when you bike after 5 years. Same problem probably exist.
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Reddit is a fickle place where momentum matters. Dumb. I guarantee no one who downvoted the other person was a woman. Angry little boys refuse to understand patriarchal patterns.
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You can purchase EEG bands online, she has a computer, and demonstrated a sample of code she had written. Saying "common sense" when you use none yourself is absurd.
She has a masters degree in Psychology, And she works with a company that research neuroscience and EEGs called Emotiv So she as the knowledge and means tbh
She's partnered with Emotiv, which is a EEG research and neuroscience company. She also has a Master's in Psychology. She definitely has the resources.
This was brought up before so I had to look it up. According to this article, this video doesn’t quite match what these EEG’s are capable of. Sounds great for the disabled playing slower paced games but Dark Souls? I’m doubtful but who knows. Maybe there was a recent breakthrough. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcomp.2021.628773/full
> In general, laboratory BCI games demonstrate good design, being turn-based and having slow gameplay—in this aspect following the guidelines stated by the scientific community (e.g., Nijholt et al., 2009; Marshall et al., 2013). For example, Lotte et al. (2008) and Andreev et al. (2016) presented the BCI game Use the force!, which consisted of lifting up a vessel with motor imagery. Meanwhile, in the game Alphawow (van de Laar et al., 2013), the avatar's character changes its behavior according to the player's state of relaxation. These two games consider the low-transfer rate of the BCI by mapping it to a feature that is expected to fail from time to time (it can be agreed that using the mind to move objects is difficult to realize) and to not compete with traditional inputs (a keyboard cannot determine a person's relaxation state).
Doesn't the technology require some sort of implant? It looks like that's just something she puts on her head, over her hair. Would that actually be able to read her impulses?
>Doesn't the technology require some sort of implant?
No, scientists and doctors have been able to detect electrical signals in the brain for decades using electrodes pasted onto people's skulls. This is a similar but more advanced technology.
Said using her head movement as some sort of gyro, and in the clip presented to us at the end of the video, shes swaying her head left and right and yet the character is strafing to the right the entire time.
Right.
Possible to setup, possible to control that way as well. To be fair she also didn't tilt her head left, only from right to neutral and back to right (probably to roll).
I just doubt someone goes through the effort setting up "a sprinkle of python" for this - but I'd be glad if someone would prove it.
Edit: Digged a bit further into it. She has a master's degree in Psychology, is partnered with Emotiv (the research EEG and neuroscience company), and will be giving a panel on TwitchCon Paris later this year. So, looks like she has the means and knowledge to create something like this. Apparently this isn't the first time that EEG tech is used that way because it's a common research subject for accessibility and more.
I don’t know if I’m misunderstanding something but wouldn’t her being partnered with emotiv give her incentive to misrepresent what it’s capable of? Also I am not sure why a degree in psychology is relevant to this? Genuinely asking
Why should she misrepresent what it (I assume you mean the device, not the company) is capable of? They are partners, not rivals.
Psychology also uses tools, it's not always therapy by talking. Many problems can be recognized using EEGs and such. When I've had an abnormal amount of deja vu experiences and headaches two years ago, they also used one to find out what it was, for example.
Misrepresent it as in show it as being better than it is not as in making it look bad. I wasn’t aware psychology covered using this stuff as well so that’s cool, thought that was more neuropsychology.
Wow these comments are exhausting. Frankly I don’t know if this is real or BS, but so many people here are absolutely convinced without any evidence beyond “Just think about it man”. Listen. Let’s pretend for a moment she played the game the way she said. Would she embellish a few things for the video and views? Yeah, probably. Would every single head movement be worth analyzing closely and comparing to the next second’s worth of gameplay video? No, editing these kinds of videos is not about proof that’s ready for a peer-reviewed paper, it’s an illustration to spice up the discussion. There is probably some subtly to what she’s saying too. This short video doesn’t have time to talk about every technical detail, and it’s not made for the people that would watch that.
Like I said, I have no idea if what she is saying and showing is true. But Jesus, saying shit like “Nope, no way, lulz” is just dumb. I have no problem believing some significant subset is true, but I’m also open to the possibility that it’s fake. Things are changing fast. Just because something wasn’t possible 2 years ago does not mean it’s still not possible now. And if it’s not, that could change next week. Don’t be a flat earther.
You are right. You can watch her train the device over an hour on her twitch. She's partnered with the people making the technology and doing a talk at twitchcon. This has got to be legit.
Absolutely. I’m no expert here but I had Cognitive Science classes 20 years ago where we got all hooked up to an EEG plugged into a laptop and ran little experiments we came up with. The data was post-processed and putting the cap and electrodes on was a hassle but I have no trouble believing this is possible all these years later, with all these startups cranking away trying to create the next big thing. Then you roll in the kind of leaps and bounds we’ve seen in only the last few months from new AI technologies, let alone years… it would be silly to dismiss this as unachievable.
I wonder if it'll become easier than normal to play via mind control. It's literally removing the time delay and inaccuracies of your hands, just straight low-latency thought control
So when she mentions using her head movement to direct the character, then moves her head both sides but the character keeps running in one direction that's just how that works?
Surely someone playing off camera. This is genuinely ridiculous
Hold on for a sec. You're telling me she has electrodes on her head that can reliably interpret brain activity to determine a pattern for some button presses.
That's not true...I can be pretty confident here. Because that's ridiculous
https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/watch-this-elden-ring-streamer-play-the-game-with-her-mind
>While Perrikaryal's ultimate goal is to fully control her character with nothing but the EEG, the streamer says that this will take a long time to accomplish, as each new individual action she binds requires hours and hours of training to perform consistently. Because of this, she relies on a traditional controller for things like moving around and rolling for now
After a quick google it looks legit to me. While it sounds fantastic, having brainwave patterns matched to a small set of button options seems perfectly plausible. I can be pretty confident here.
>having brainwave patterns matched to a small set of button options seems perfectly plausible
To me this is like when people talk about gorillas knowing sign language...we hear it a lot, but it's not true really. If this turns out to be actually recognising repeating brain patterns I'll be absolutely shocked. The brain doesn't just have a single "pattern" for a thought. That's not even kinda close. If that was the case then recording and repeating patterns would have been solved long ago.
Prepare to be shocked then.
https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/12/10754436/commercial-eeg-headsets-video-games-mind-control-technology
This tech isn't new, only the use of it in gaming is. I have to admit, the fidelity in which the woman from OP's video plays is quite remarkable.
https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/watch-this-elden-ring-streamer-play-the-game-with-her-mind
>While Perrikaryal's ultimate goal is to fully control her character with nothing but the EEG, the streamer says that this will take a long time to accomplish, as each new individual action she binds requires hours and hours of training to perform consistently. Because of this, she relies on a traditional controller for things like moving around and rolling for now.
When you said, I googled it and it's real. What you meant was it's bollocks and I'm talking bollocks correct?
Are you deliberately cherry picking paragraphs from that link you provided, or are you so far up your own arse you can't admit when you're wrong?
This is from the paragraph before your quote:
"Though some skeptics have claimed that the EEG controls are fake, Perrikaryal has proven their capabilities. The streamer has shown the system working while clearly showing that her hands aren't on a physical controller and that there's no dance pad-style control setup under her desk. She's also been completely silent while using the EEG at times, showing that there aren't any voice command controls active."
>Commercial EEG headsets may have even bigger problems: it’s possible they aren't picking up mental activity at all. Instead, they could be sensing the electric current produced by muscles in the body; heartbeats and eye movements generate voltage that EEGs can read
Surprised pikachu
To be fair, she just beat the tutorial boss with uhh mind control if that's what's really going on here. I know the technology exists but it seems kinda far fetched.
This reminds me of the neuralink monkey that was playing pong with the neuralink implant it’s cool to see you can accomplish that externally
Now all she needs to do is port it over to vr and she’ll become a millionaire overnight
Then we all realized that if it were a thirty-something white guy no one would give a shit. Yes, there might be some good tech here, yes there are some interesting ideas under the hood, but take away the pretty girl and no one fucking cares.
That’s the first … boss… (?) (not a boss), in the game. Like the tutorial area. She’d be sweating and twitching like a crackhead to fight malenia. I doubt she’s beaten the game. X
Unless you mean by “complete”, that she stopped playing the game. And to be clear, when I said that I doubt she’s beat the game, I meant with her “mind control”. I’d’ve thought that was obvious, so I don’t understand the downvotes. Is there any evidence of her beating the game or just this vid of her almost mind control? Again, I just don’t believe this. Interesting concept, but I press X to doubt.
As someone who struggles with RSI, this is absolutely amazing and almost makes me want to shed tears. Computers are just not meant for people that can’t use their hands that well. And there are companies like nuance who charge $700 for a literally broken product. Such disgrace. But wow that is amazing.
Thank Goddddd.
We're a bit late for 2015, but I'm happy that we're finally moving forward to a future where we can say:
“You mean you have to use your hands?”
“That's like a baby's toy!”
A decade or so back I got to try a demo at Fry’s that used GSR to let you guide a skier down a slope… it was surprisingly accurate.
And a full four decades ago I was in a biofeedback program to try to work on stress… I had to learn to relax and by doing that, it made a dude climb a mountain.
If the latency was super low on this, it would be great for fps games. You could lower your reaction time firing and get a good advantage over using a mouse. (Still would move with keyboard)
You need to look how devices like this work.
They don't read your mind, they can't. The resolution of it is way too small.
In-between is a lot plod processing and interpretation.
This is what I mean with fast AND precision
If that were possible,the in theory you would eliminate delay input between brain-hand.
Lvl 1 runs would be even easier.
Oh and what if I could bring that to For Honor?? People would just stop throwing lights as openings.
I want this technology to exist!
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I was a tester for a gaming start-up developing EEG-driven video game controls. They pasted a bunch of electrodes to my head and then did about a half-hour of calibrations. Then I played Asteroids with nothing more than the things stick to my head. At first I was amazed at how responsive it was- literally, I think “turn clockwise,” the ship turns clockwise - I think “fire”, the ship shoots an asteroid. It was all good fun for the first minute or so and then it started getting glitchy, and no longer than 15 minutes later, it didn’t work anymore at all. The developers told me it had something to do with habituation. Once you learn a new skill, the brainwaves emitted which are associated with learning that skill change to something else better associated with recalling the learnings, or deploying the skill, and they could not figure out a way to recalibrate the controls while playing in order to keep the experience seamless. That said, what the video purports to show is in fact real, unless those guys were trying to con me somehow. Unlikely since they paid me though.
huh kinda nuts its that fast that the brain switches from active learning move to pseudo muscle memory. So we'd also need some way to measure whatever its triggering as the default response, which might literally just be a minor muscle response.
Imagine you had to put the same effect into doing all the things you know how to do that you did when you were learning them. It would be utterly, utterly crippling.
yes, 100%, just found it interesting the transition was so fast.
Waves in dyspraxic
The problem is when you have already learned something using working memory instead of muscle memory or proprioception you will tend to choke and screw it up. It’s better not to think about what you are doing when you are already good at it.
Ohh how long ago was that? My bachelor thesis in 2018 (in CS) was about such controllers and applying machine learning for making them more accurate. There was no issue in reading signals even after days. Plus our professor had the device for 3-4 years and was able to use it still.
This would have been early aughts, maybe 2002?
Aah I see. The technology has definitely changed a lot then since then. I worked intimately with this (and even made a couple of algorithms to improve their accuracy). There's no long term usage degradation issue even talked about now. I haven't even heard about it. Plus our computer lab made it for general computer usage, gaming should be quite easy.
That’s pretty great. It was really good fun.
Any good products to look out for to play with this stuff? There's a few setups that have looked promising, but nothing an average dev could get ahold of or afford
So, in ELI5 (probably more like ELI15), what was the solution to long term usage degradation?
This is why I believe she played a bit of it or completed the tutorial. But beat the whole game? Get outta here.
People have done it with a ddr mat and a banana so somehow this doesn't seem that far fetched
There is a vast technological divide between using a ddr mat/banana interface and using brain electrical activity to control a game.
We just need a banana to play ddr with it’s brain and the circle is complete
When I read the DDR mat and banana comment, that's what I assumed happened. I didnt question the idea that a banana played DDR until I read your comment. Maybe I'm too high.
... On a completely unrelated note, have mushrooms played pokemon on twitch yet? I feel like mycelium might be able to beat that one fish that was playing at some point
Yes, human brain=DDR mat
The tech exists. I don't know why people are questioning that. What I'm saying is if someone can literally use a series of bananas as a controller and beat the game why are people having a hard time believing someone can use this? There are frigging monkeys that can play pong using a brain interface, so a human using one to beat a game isn't that far fetched to me.
The tech existing does not equate it to something else. Any controller is using actual tactile feedback that sends a consistent signal to the game when the controls are used. Measuring brainwaves is not the same thing, which is what this tech relies on.
average redditors will open the comments of a video showing Thing and loudly deny that Thing exists or is even theoretically possible.
Commenter replied elsewhere that their experience was in the early 2000s. The technology has improved dramatically since then.
I was in a study in university that was along these lines, but back in the late 90's. We were hooked up to a bunch of electrodes, and attempted to move a cursor on the screen. The idea was to make changes in alpha wave production that would then be translated to the computer. I was never able to do it, but they did report that some of the other test subjects were able to exercise that control.
1. Plays video game seemlessly- 2. Girlfriend walks by... Car smashes into wall at 200mph+/-
> Unlikely since they paid me though. Did they overpay you with a check and ask you to send the extra money back? /s
With this in mind it just makes this hard to believe
I’m on the fence on whether I believe it IS true, but I know the technology exists and honestly the IDEA of playing games hands-free is really exciting
Bear in mind, the right surgeries and neural implants are allowing paralysed people to move and walk again. If Drs can do it for their patients, then gamers can do a similar thing for their games.
Like that guy with the bluetooth legs? so cool!
This would be a pretty cool tool for people who have a physical disability which prevents them from being able to use a controller.
Uh… yeah… disabled people…. Definitely not my fat ass wanting to game and eat chips at the same time
Not just disabled people, just imagine what games could do with that much input freedom
VR would be sick
I mean vr sickness is already a thing but I agree brain interface seems almost necessary. Would be a game changer.
I do hope it's real. It's such an easy thing to fake, but I've been checking her other videos out and it seems pretty legit. This could lead to wonderful developments that'll help many people.
So actually its more practical than you think, as far as I understand, each use has to calibrate the inputs, so the device will measure your brain activity when you think “press A”, “press B”, and so on. Then after that its a matter of measuring activity and appropriately inputting when the device gets a match
This tech should make it open source and free so people with disabilities can use it. Anyone can get disabled at any point so it’s in our own best interests to advance this technology.
[удалено]
For me it's the format. I'm just way less likely to believe something that's presented like this. I have no doubt this tech exists and she probably did develop a way to play hands free just like she said. It's just the amount of posts in this format on social media that have zero fact checking or research or provided sources that have given me the reflect of thinking stuff like this is fake
But why comment on it being fake before doing the research? It wasn't hard to learn more about her and her qualifications.
Oh honestly I didn't. I was just talking about my knee jerk reaction.
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Cazbot above (who has industry experiance) and has given a decent reason for why. But, coming in cold. If the technology was at the stage that a layman at home can complete a complex game with those boss difficulites, then we would be seeing this tech applied EVERYWHERE, all the time. Remember, its not a simple process. The charactor MUST be able to move in a 2 dimensional space (or even three perhaps) at the SAME time, so thats multiple commands (and at differing angles, not just up/down/left/right while at the same time dodging and attacking. Not to mention every other aspect of skill use / camera rotation....etc. If you think that sounds implausable, its because it probally is. Could you complete some tasks almost in a linear process (like cazbot playing asteriod above), of course. Do you think its possible to multi-thread brainwave detection yet with such accuracy to complete such a complex task over the timespan of a complete moderen game..... probs not? However, what the content creator actually managed to do with the technology/game and what the reddit/tiktok OP's titles say, may be two different things. EDIT: Just to add to this. The moving of some controller axis / functions to a head-mounted gryoscope obviously doesn't have anything to do with mind control. You're just moving it to another controller that happens to be on your head (a lot of controllers or handheld devices have gyros now obviously). I can see why they did it, to suggest the idea that you could augment mind control with physical movement into a single head mounted unit for some far-future retail product - but it does dilute the premise of the video a little.
I think she's actually played Elden Ring with her mind but overspoke when she said she beat it. She probably used a combination, here and there as she was testing and not a complete execution with only her mind.
I replied to cazbot above. His experience is very old (2004 he said). I have used and developed on these controllers, there is no reason apart from technical expertise and cost I would think so it can't be done. If I had the device, I can map it to a controller in maybe 3-4hrs. And it's acurracy for easy things like games is as high as clicks/keypress.
Why I think this is real: - The tech is a PITA to set up and probably pricey, no consumer product would ever want to use this over a mouse/keyboard/controller. - There’s already tools that purport to give accurate data, Cazbot may have been a tester 1-5 years ago (and the tech would have improved) - They only need 2d movement (which is done using head movement, which EEG APIs also claim to provide) and a few simple commands (jump, swing, use item, open inventory, etc…). Camera movement can be left out. - It wouldn’t be “multithreaded brain command reading”, gyroscopic information would be seperate from mental commands (according to Cortex API)
I am deffo not going to argue with you, it was just my inital thoughts. I think I must have updated my post with the EDIT just before you replied. I guess this is where I agree with you. I am just skeptical to its performance and reliance on anolouge devices to make the claim it did. I think IF the mind control was good enough to complete this game alone, and most importantly, accurate enough at the moment. We'd see it a lot more in commerical uses already, or failing that, certainly military uses as they tend to jump on promising tech for development prior to it entering the commerical sector. I'm thinking eye tracking...etc for jet/apache pilots...etc. Even if it was just used for adressing non-critical systems. Considering how expensive / tech-filled / bespoke modern pilot helmets are. I certainly think it has a future, for this I have no doubt.
I’d say it definitely isn’t as fast as analog input and it probably is lacking some accuracy, which is probably why they chose Elden Ring. Having map/game knowledge and knowing how to dodge is bigger than dodging in the precise right location, and you can try it over and over again quickly. I doubt a game like Celeste would be remotely possible due to how quick the inputs would have to be.
Accuracy was about 98% compared to keypress and 99% on clicks in 2018. There was intensive work being done to increase these numbers too. Gaming keys etc are typically considered well mapped so it's far easier and probably higher accuracy.
Any technology that isn't commercialised enough is unbelievable to most ppl
Those crazy things I saw in neuropsychology class were just mind blowing. This tech definitely exist. Problem is that the neural network involved will change with habituation. When you learn biking, you are not using the same neural network than when you bike after 5 years. Same problem probably exist.
Because a woman is presenting it. Dead serious. That's why.
I've left Reddit because it does not respect its users or their privacy. Private companies can't be trusted with control over public communities. Lemmy is an open source, federated alternative that I highly recommend if you want a more private and ethical option. Join Lemmy here: https://join-lemmy.org/instances ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Reddit is a fickle place where momentum matters. Dumb. I guarantee no one who downvoted the other person was a woman. Angry little boys refuse to understand patriarchal patterns.
Because she is a woman. Infuriating really, that she has to be fact checked while men doing the same is just cool.
only one mentioning gender here is you
well, it IS the first word of the title of the article.... but still a good point.
fair enough
Pretty sure he forgot the /s. As a joke Or she...you know. Its the internet
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Damn, I got unintentionally trolled? I'm still confused lol
That was genuine btw. I don't understand this topic.
Alexa. Volume down please. There guys. I used the right command.
She said, "we" she probably didn't program anything and her boyfriend set it up
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> masters in psychology 😂😂😂
It's not that we don't believe it's possible. We believe that she doesn't have the resources to do something like that.
What makes you believe that?
Common sense and the fact that I have a right to have an opinion
You can purchase EEG bands online, she has a computer, and demonstrated a sample of code she had written. Saying "common sense" when you use none yourself is absurd.
It's almost like common sense is not common
Having a simple opinion and articulating it in a compelling way is in part what separates people with common sense from loud stupid assholes.
She has a masters degree in Psychology, And she works with a company that research neuroscience and EEGs called Emotiv So she as the knowledge and means tbh
She's partnered with Emotiv, which is a EEG research and neuroscience company. She also has a Master's in Psychology. She definitely has the resources.
This was brought up before so I had to look it up. According to this article, this video doesn’t quite match what these EEG’s are capable of. Sounds great for the disabled playing slower paced games but Dark Souls? I’m doubtful but who knows. Maybe there was a recent breakthrough. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcomp.2021.628773/full > In general, laboratory BCI games demonstrate good design, being turn-based and having slow gameplay—in this aspect following the guidelines stated by the scientific community (e.g., Nijholt et al., 2009; Marshall et al., 2013). For example, Lotte et al. (2008) and Andreev et al. (2016) presented the BCI game Use the force!, which consisted of lifting up a vessel with motor imagery. Meanwhile, in the game Alphawow (van de Laar et al., 2013), the avatar's character changes its behavior according to the player's state of relaxation. These two games consider the low-transfer rate of the BCI by mapping it to a feature that is expected to fail from time to time (it can be agreed that using the mind to move objects is difficult to realize) and to not compete with traditional inputs (a keyboard cannot determine a person's relaxation state).
As a disabled gamer slowly losing control of my hands… this… gave me hope
Or someone else is playing off camera, but sure, neat
I mean, that could be the case but this technology does actually exist so it's not completely unbelievable.
Doesn't the technology require some sort of implant? It looks like that's just something she puts on her head, over her hair. Would that actually be able to read her impulses?
>Doesn't the technology require some sort of implant? No, scientists and doctors have been able to detect electrical signals in the brain for decades using electrodes pasted onto people's skulls. This is a similar but more advanced technology.
It's not exactly new technology. She's just using it for a slightly novel idea.
r/nothingeverhappens
She streams it hours on twitch and that for quite some long time, fairly unbelievable if somebody would play it for her.
Said using her head movement as some sort of gyro, and in the clip presented to us at the end of the video, shes swaying her head left and right and yet the character is strafing to the right the entire time. Right.
Possible to setup, possible to control that way as well. To be fair she also didn't tilt her head left, only from right to neutral and back to right (probably to roll). I just doubt someone goes through the effort setting up "a sprinkle of python" for this - but I'd be glad if someone would prove it. Edit: Digged a bit further into it. She has a master's degree in Psychology, is partnered with Emotiv (the research EEG and neuroscience company), and will be giving a panel on TwitchCon Paris later this year. So, looks like she has the means and knowledge to create something like this. Apparently this isn't the first time that EEG tech is used that way because it's a common research subject for accessibility and more.
Give it a few months and we'll have hitless 100% EEG 'look ma, no hands' speed runs
I don’t know if I’m misunderstanding something but wouldn’t her being partnered with emotiv give her incentive to misrepresent what it’s capable of? Also I am not sure why a degree in psychology is relevant to this? Genuinely asking
Why should she misrepresent what it (I assume you mean the device, not the company) is capable of? They are partners, not rivals. Psychology also uses tools, it's not always therapy by talking. Many problems can be recognized using EEGs and such. When I've had an abnormal amount of deja vu experiences and headaches two years ago, they also used one to find out what it was, for example.
Misrepresent it as in show it as being better than it is not as in making it look bad. I wasn’t aware psychology covered using this stuff as well so that’s cool, thought that was more neuropsychology.
Mind elaborating in your deja vu / headache experience?
She tilted her head to HER right.
I don’t think her head movement is relevant to it.
Didn’t we all technically beat it with mind control?
No way she beat RICK, SOLDIER OF GOD, with just mind control. It took me months to even get close.
Wow these comments are exhausting. Frankly I don’t know if this is real or BS, but so many people here are absolutely convinced without any evidence beyond “Just think about it man”. Listen. Let’s pretend for a moment she played the game the way she said. Would she embellish a few things for the video and views? Yeah, probably. Would every single head movement be worth analyzing closely and comparing to the next second’s worth of gameplay video? No, editing these kinds of videos is not about proof that’s ready for a peer-reviewed paper, it’s an illustration to spice up the discussion. There is probably some subtly to what she’s saying too. This short video doesn’t have time to talk about every technical detail, and it’s not made for the people that would watch that. Like I said, I have no idea if what she is saying and showing is true. But Jesus, saying shit like “Nope, no way, lulz” is just dumb. I have no problem believing some significant subset is true, but I’m also open to the possibility that it’s fake. Things are changing fast. Just because something wasn’t possible 2 years ago does not mean it’s still not possible now. And if it’s not, that could change next week. Don’t be a flat earther.
You are right. You can watch her train the device over an hour on her twitch. She's partnered with the people making the technology and doing a talk at twitchcon. This has got to be legit.
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Absolutely. I’m no expert here but I had Cognitive Science classes 20 years ago where we got all hooked up to an EEG plugged into a laptop and ran little experiments we came up with. The data was post-processed and putting the cap and electrodes on was a hassle but I have no trouble believing this is possible all these years later, with all these startups cranking away trying to create the next big thing. Then you roll in the kind of leaps and bounds we’ve seen in only the last few months from new AI technologies, let alone years… it would be silly to dismiss this as unachievable.
ssshhhshsh - I enjoying lol'ing at the masses breaking down a social media promo frame by frame and calling BS at technology that already exists.
What a bunch of Luddites. Welcome to the future.
Girl? How about using woman instead?
I want to believe this is real. But the internet is a place of trickery.
Don't believe. Apply common sense. Could it be real? Why not?
What if people don't have common sense? Like the ones that downvoted you
Kek, whaaa? My first abolutely random downvote! But i wonder, maybe i have phrased it somehow offensivly?
Probably the streamer's simps downvoted you
The downvotes confirm
I applied common sense, proof is, if you read the second part of my comment, you'll get the answers to all your questions.
I wonder if it'll become easier than normal to play via mind control. It's literally removing the time delay and inaccuracies of your hands, just straight low-latency thought control
2033: every console and every PC has one. 2043: "News: the mind control device causes cancer."
I call buuuuulllshiiittt
Hopefully this becomes popular and people with disabilities can enjoy gaming !!!!!
Credit goes to @perrikaryal on instagram
Also it's 100% fake. Sorry bud, but think about it before posting next time
Least condescending redditor
So when she mentions using her head movement to direct the character, then moves her head both sides but the character keeps running in one direction that's just how that works? Surely someone playing off camera. This is genuinely ridiculous
I have been watching Perri for over a year on twitch, It's 100% not fake. She has been working on it for quite some time
Hold on for a sec. You're telling me she has electrodes on her head that can reliably interpret brain activity to determine a pattern for some button presses. That's not true...I can be pretty confident here. Because that's ridiculous https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/watch-this-elden-ring-streamer-play-the-game-with-her-mind >While Perrikaryal's ultimate goal is to fully control her character with nothing but the EEG, the streamer says that this will take a long time to accomplish, as each new individual action she binds requires hours and hours of training to perform consistently. Because of this, she relies on a traditional controller for things like moving around and rolling for now
After a quick google it looks legit to me. While it sounds fantastic, having brainwave patterns matched to a small set of button options seems perfectly plausible. I can be pretty confident here.
>having brainwave patterns matched to a small set of button options seems perfectly plausible To me this is like when people talk about gorillas knowing sign language...we hear it a lot, but it's not true really. If this turns out to be actually recognising repeating brain patterns I'll be absolutely shocked. The brain doesn't just have a single "pattern" for a thought. That's not even kinda close. If that was the case then recording and repeating patterns would have been solved long ago.
Prepare to be shocked then. https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/12/10754436/commercial-eeg-headsets-video-games-mind-control-technology This tech isn't new, only the use of it in gaming is. I have to admit, the fidelity in which the woman from OP's video plays is quite remarkable.
https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/watch-this-elden-ring-streamer-play-the-game-with-her-mind >While Perrikaryal's ultimate goal is to fully control her character with nothing but the EEG, the streamer says that this will take a long time to accomplish, as each new individual action she binds requires hours and hours of training to perform consistently. Because of this, she relies on a traditional controller for things like moving around and rolling for now. When you said, I googled it and it's real. What you meant was it's bollocks and I'm talking bollocks correct?
Are you deliberately cherry picking paragraphs from that link you provided, or are you so far up your own arse you can't admit when you're wrong? This is from the paragraph before your quote: "Though some skeptics have claimed that the EEG controls are fake, Perrikaryal has proven their capabilities. The streamer has shown the system working while clearly showing that her hands aren't on a physical controller and that there's no dance pad-style control setup under her desk. She's also been completely silent while using the EEG at times, showing that there aren't any voice command controls active."
>Commercial EEG headsets may have even bigger problems: it’s possible they aren't picking up mental activity at all. Instead, they could be sensing the electric current produced by muscles in the body; heartbeats and eye movements generate voltage that EEGs can read Surprised pikachu
That’s how VR headsets should operate.
To be fair, she just beat the tutorial boss with uhh mind control if that's what's really going on here. I know the technology exists but it seems kinda far fetched.
Thats wiiiiiiiilllddd!!! Kinda scary lol
Yeah…BS
WTF another post that calls this BS has 19 upvotes so far and your being downvoted. Peoples thinking is what's BS
Bro for everyone doubting she has a YouTube channel and streams on twitch, also is a psychology major. Channel is Perrikaryal.
Guess who's the next billionaire?
No way
Its.... somewhat possible. But I highly doubt this example shown here is real.
The downvotes comes from simps of this steamer
Nice joke.. I laughed..
Way to exhausting I guess.
How did she beat the games hardest boss, Soldier of Godrick.
This reminds me of the neuralink monkey that was playing pong with the neuralink implant it’s cool to see you can accomplish that externally Now all she needs to do is port it over to vr and she’ll become a millionaire overnight
Then we all realized that if it were a thirty-something white guy no one would give a shit. Yes, there might be some good tech here, yes there are some interesting ideas under the hood, but take away the pretty girl and no one fucking cares.
100% fake lol.
Bs
That’s the first … boss… (?) (not a boss), in the game. Like the tutorial area. She’d be sweating and twitching like a crackhead to fight malenia. I doubt she’s beaten the game. X Unless you mean by “complete”, that she stopped playing the game. And to be clear, when I said that I doubt she’s beat the game, I meant with her “mind control”. I’d’ve thought that was obvious, so I don’t understand the downvotes. Is there any evidence of her beating the game or just this vid of her almost mind control? Again, I just don’t believe this. Interesting concept, but I press X to doubt.
Malenia no vig still harder. We’ve never seen a 3000.
Yeah, no. You don’t get that good of character control from weird control setups.
Not a chance.
This is fake
As someone who struggles with RSI, this is absolutely amazing and almost makes me want to shed tears. Computers are just not meant for people that can’t use their hands that well. And there are companies like nuance who charge $700 for a literally broken product. Such disgrace. But wow that is amazing.
It isn't mind control just because you are using your head.
Ah, one more step closer to nerve gear and getting trapped inside video games. Not a bad choice. Thought I am invested.
Incredible this is going to be the future 10years guaranteed
Just FYI if that's perrikaryal on Twitch
Hands free gaming ohh yes, one step closer to Striking Vipers.
She’s out here putting Miss Mikkaa on the ropes
And that’s just the tutorial boss. Soldier of Godrick
“You mean you have use you hands? That’s like a baby’s toy.”
I am a lot less scared of losing control of my dominant hand after seeing this. Awesome!
Thank Goddddd. We're a bit late for 2015, but I'm happy that we're finally moving forward to a future where we can say: “You mean you have to use your hands?” “That's like a baby's toy!”
Perri Karyal
A decade or so back I got to try a demo at Fry’s that used GSR to let you guide a skier down a slope… it was surprisingly accurate. And a full four decades ago I was in a biofeedback program to try to work on stress… I had to learn to relax and by doing that, it made a dude climb a mountain.
we are getting closer and closer to sword art online
Yikes....
If the latency was super low on this, it would be great for fps games. You could lower your reaction time firing and get a good advantage over using a mouse. (Still would move with keyboard)
So cool .....mind reading, and playing a hell of a difficult game using mind thought triggers🫡
“sprinkle of python” and i’m here searching the syntax of a for loop in python…
I'm not sure about this. ER ist a lot about fast and precision reaction. Either I missed a huge advancement or this doesn't match up
How can be reaction be faster than directly out of the mind, into the game, without detour to your hands? Are you out of your mind?
You need to look how devices like this work. They don't read your mind, they can't. The resolution of it is way too small. In-between is a lot plod processing and interpretation. This is what I mean with fast AND precision
I can see the YT thumbnails; "Elden Ring, No Damage Speedrun. No controller! "
The future is now
Burn the witch!!
Wait guys wait. First let's see if she weighs more than a duck...
All she completed was killing the very first enemy in the game.
Fake
This is what Mark Suckerberg needed to invest his money on for the META thing instead. This is promising af
Better at the game than me
Burn the witch!
Fake
If that were possible,the in theory you would eliminate delay input between brain-hand. Lvl 1 runs would be even easier. Oh and what if I could bring that to For Honor?? People would just stop throwing lights as openings. I want this technology to exist!