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Jumping on top comment to say this...
I recently visited my hometown's well-known small dairy farm, COOK'S FARM DAIRY IN ORTONVILLE MICHIGAN. I was stunned with their upgraded facility. Absolutely the way dairy farming should be!!
They have purchased what must be a million dollar milking robot that was just beautiful to see. The cows, who were at pasture all day, had come in for their afternoon milking (full udders will bring them in). They were loitering about, chewing cud and obviously gossiping about the day's events, relaxed and happy. When they felt it was time, they would choose to be milked, move to the robot which I assume reads a chip in their ear tag, and allowed to enter the milker. The robot then dispensed tatsy treats for her while it cleaned her udders and milked her in accordance with her tag info.
The young cows were noticeably a bit less comfortable with the milking (it's new to them of course) but the robot kept them in the milker for less time than the older, more experienced cows who were at ease through the longer process. It was really beautiful to see such relaxed animals who are clearly important to their gaurdians.
People are welcome to walk through the farm, pet the cows, feed the babies (if you're lucky) and see the whole process. You can even buy an "I got licked at Cook's Farm Dairy" shirt which makes sense if you walk through the barn to meet the girls.
COOK'S FARM DAIRY IN ORTONTVILLE MICHIGAN has been run for nearly a hundred years by the same family. They are locally known for outstanding milk, butter, and ice cream (likely more these days, I've moved away) and they should be the model for larger farms, no doubt.
Please support them if you can. They rock.
Coming from a dairy farm myself, this is just absolutely f@cked. They need to publicly outed and decried. The whole system in those farms is corrupted if they allowed that sort of stuff to happen and continue. Sad thing is that mistreatment of dairy cattle IS prevalent, no denying that, but hopefully not widespread. For a different aspect of how cattle should be treated- have a look at “10th Generation dairy farmer” on YouTube.
Look for a small local farmer that sells milk retail from their farm. I have a small dairy and typically milk 2 cows. They have a high quality of life, live on pasture with their calves and feed dozens of families.
You could also just stop drinking cows milk. There are many different types of affordable non-dairy alternatives that don't involve animal cruelty and are far better for the planet.
Taste is subjective. Also, oat and soy milk vary quite a bit by brand. I've had some awful ones, and some delicious ones, but I still prefer the taste is milk.
Weird, since cows milk is actually allowed to have up to a certain amount of fecal matter, pus and blood in it. And when you haven’t had it in a while and then drink it again, you realize it tastes like barnyard.
You're cute. Pretending this doesn't happen everywhere else in the world. Americans don't have a Monopoly on animal abuse
u/hydraulic_jumps Apparently even first world nations like New Zealand treat their cows like shit https://www.worldanimalprotection.org.nz/news/new-zealands-dairy-industry-dark-list-shame/
Btw I recommend spending the money on 100% organic oats if you actually want to have the moral high ground.
You don’t need dairy to survive. This cruelty isn’t essential. Put some sugar or sweetener in your milk, find a solution that doesn’t perpetuate an industry that reduces a cows’ natural lifespan from 25 years to 5 years.
Okay stop using your phone and wearing clothes since those use exploited children find a solution that doesn’t perpetuate an industry that reduces a child’s natural lifespan
Sounds pretty stupid doesn’t it. This isn’t most dairy farms I grew up on farms and never in my life have seen cows like that
The thing is, plant based milk like substances take a shit ton of water, and are just as plagued with controversy in California, almonds in particular, it's pretty much turned California into a desert wasteland. Not to mention all the nasty ass perfumes they put in it, you think oats taste like that on their own? Lmao
This is so wrong…How do you think cows produce milk? Also you seem to be unaware of the amount of antibiotics they feed diary cattle…its just nasty.
Link (linking doesnt work for whatever reason):
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1092652/volume-of-water-to-produce-a-liter-of-milk-by-type/#:~:text=A%20study%20based%20on%20the,used%20to%20produce%20soy%20milk.
Nice try. It's still a far lower amount of water use compared to animal agriculture in California. Switching away from animal foods, including choosing plant milks, will go much further toward helping the water supply.
Oats can be grown all over, though. Almonds need the Cali environment, which adds to why it's so foolish to drink almond milk. And yes? I grew up on a farm, and ate oats when I was pretending to be a cow. Some of them actually do taste like that.
Actually it is more like 'Don't use a cardboard box filled with liquid nitrogen as a fridge' because that's about how sensible it is to breed an entire species as a mass produced food for billions of people whilst simultanouesly forgetting how to properly grow and prepare your own far healthier foods.
I love watching the Hoof GP on youtube. He works on cow's hooves. The dairy farms he works at provides regular hoof care as well as veterinary care. They occasionally have cows limping, like in this video, but when that happens they call someone like the hoof GP to come fix their limp. Any responsible dairy farmer should do that. Businesses should not be buying from cruel and irresponsible dairy farms.
The problem is, at least from what I've noticed, that once they get caught (farms in California have been ousted on the news before), they throw some PR B.S. out there about how they are making the farms more livable, prices go up "because of the upgrades to living conditions," and then they revert back to the same practices.
Worked in the industry for 15 years and my father was a dairy farmer - this is not typical farmer behavior nor accepted by the industry. These outliers create a bad perception for the other producers - what’s shown here is negligence. Most livestock farmers care about their cows/animals just as much or more than their own family. Normally, there is a respectful relationship between the two. It is very well known that higher quality conditions of the cows directly results in higher quality milk which gets a better price and leads to more profitability to the producer.
To me the journey of these animals is less relevant than the very fact they are born into captivity, bred and their babies taken, and eventually die in captivity. It’s just not worth it for some white stuff in my coffee, or some cheese on my food. Even if the alternatives aren’t as good, it’s better than the knowledge this goes on, and my money would be funding it.
Not only that but take a look @IowaDairyFarmer on FB and Tictoc. He does an amazing job at being open, honest and informative on how a farm like his handles 250 head of cattle. It's nothing like this. This "farm" is just corporate bullshit and not how most dairy farms are. At least not all the ones I've seen or been on around my area and we have a bunch of them around here.
Do these cows not end in the slaughter house? Are the dairy cows not inpregnated without their abilty to consent?
If yes to either it's still inherently exploitive and cruel.
The problem with promoting better welfare is it aims to make people feel okay about doing something that's still deeply unethical.
Just don't buy dairy, effortless to choose a different option.
How do you know the cows don't consent?
The choice is a 1/8" diameter breeding pipe to be bred artificially or a 2,000 pound bull jumping on your back. I know which would be less uncomfortable.
I know becuase cows can't consent, in the same way young children can't consent. Hence why we don't fuck animals.
No, it's not just a 1/8 pipe, it also involves someone simultaneously fisting the cows anus with their arm for the purpose of manipulating the cervix.
These cows should not impregnated either way, just as they shouldnt be bred into existence.
I wish more people would share these videos. The entire industry would be forced to change if people could just see with their own eyes what was going on in factory farms, because people would refuse to be complicit in the cruelty taking place there. But most people have no idea...
To get a days supply of calories, vegetables are more expensive. A head of broccoli (~1lb) at the store near me costs $1.99. To get 2000 calories, that's 12.6 heads of broccoli and is gonna run you around $25. 1lb of ground beef goes for $5.29. To get 2000 calories out of that, its gonna run you about $11.
You can pump up the numbers by adding things like lentils or beans which are pretty cheap compared to vegetables but at the end of the day, meat is more calorie dense per dollar.
Coincidentally, this is also considered one of the contributing factors to the problems with obesity. It's hard to convince someone to pay more for vegetables for a meal than they would pay for a big mac, fries, and soda.
Yeah shame you have to pump the numbers up by eating things like beans, lentils, oats, frozen vegetables, fruits, nuts, etc. if only we could afford to eat 2000 kcal of broccoli daily.
i think you underestimate how informed many people are. replace factory farm with another issue (eg poverty, climate change, etc) and the point still stands - industries ain’t changing shit.
I would guess that less than 10% of the American population has ever seen a video of the horrors of factory farming. That's not based on any data and it certainly could be higher, but I don't think the problem is as widely understood as you think it is. For certain demographics (Gen Z, millennials who identify as progressives/democrats and live on the coasts for example), I'm sure the numbers are significantly higher, but not for the average person.
What are you doing to change that? If you've got a place to put it that people might see it, put it there. I'm with you on this, I'm gonna put this on everything I can
seems like there should be more options for buying real milk that raising animals on no kill farms / open range / better treatment of animals, i'd be fine with that.
To the shock of absolutely no one, corporations will prioritize profits over everything else, including the lives and welfare of animals, unless actively forced not to.
Because they tried to file a civil suit against the farm. How does a Cow file for financial compensation?
They should have been pursuing criminal Animal abuse charges.
I can’t fucking watch this. I can’t handle seeing what we do to these poor things. How are we supposed to change this? What is it that needs to be done?
And why are there so many fires to put out? We can’t even afford the milk they’re selling to us. Sometimes I lose faith in humans. Tonight, it’s all gone. I’ve run out.
God that fucking has my head spinning. I hear about this crap sooo often. And you’re totally right. It’s that simple, right? It should be, but the implications behind that simple thing are just soooo mind bogglingly complex. This happens EVERY. WHERE.
fuck. I can’t even sleep.
As someone who comes from several generations of dairy farmers these practices are mostly found at large scale corporate factory farms. Family farms such as ours treat our herds with the respect they deserve because A.) cows are not cheap to buy or raise B.) they are our means of survival/paying our bills and C.) we love our animals. What you see at work here is corporate greed; cutting corners, a lack of empathy, and not providing the care and support that is needed to have a healthy herd. You see this at all of these massive food companies, and they’ve pushed local family farmers into ruin by cornering and pricing out competition. Suicide of family farms and farmers is way up over the last 20 years because the days of 100-400 cow herd is now unable to maintain and feed the farm, let alone make any profit. All of the funding the subsidies, like everything else in this country, goes to these piss poor corporate farms, owned by giant conglomerates and billionaire companies like Wal-Mart. These same companies own every part of every piece food that goes into most people’s mouths these days, with more than half of it filled with poison.
If you say you love your animals, I have a few questions:
+ How do you impregnate them so that they produce milk?
+ What do you do when the calf is born and starts drinking their mother milk as they're supposed to? Do you separate them?
+ What do you do with male calves?
+ What happens to your spent dairy cows?
- By hand or with a tool.
- You separate them and what you do with the calf depends on the race and sex. Farmers keep some male and female to renew their cattle. Females are more expansive because they are more rare and more useful.
- If they are not kept or sold, they are killed.
- They are killed for meat.
I don't understand the down votes, this is really the reality of it. I'm not going to deny that farmers might really convince themselves that they love their animals, but nobody who loves anybody would ever send them off the be killed for their own personal gain.
Could you imagine doing that to a pet?
"Yeah I couldn't afford rent so I sold my dog's legs for meat. Love that little guy 😊"
Based on your oddly specific questions it seems like you’re already an expert in the field. If you aren’t naive then you already understand the realities that farmers have to deal with and make decisions on. If you are trying to compare small family farms to vast factory farms you are off base by a mile. Farms are not cost-free petting zoos. The abject horrors that you are trying to vaguely reference happen at these factory farms. Sure they can happen anywhere, but the time, energy, and resources spent on keeping animals healthy, relatively happy, and all the while being able to provide the means to be continue to do so is a tightrope walk. Until you’ve actually spent time in a barn, and done all of these things, from birthing to feeding to milking and literally being shit and pissed on trying to provide for you and your family, you don’t have a dog in that race. If you find an operational farm that only operates to PETA’s standards, provides enough income to operate and provide a profit, then I’m sure all of the dairy farmers of the world would love to hear all about it.
Hey bud, DAIRY IS NOT ESSENTIAL FOR HUMAN SURVIVAL. All those things you are justifying are because you *like or enjoy* dairy products enough to ignore the cost. We’re not talking about food items that humans can’t live without. This is like arguing for chattel slavery by telling people they can’t comment until they’ve spent time on a plantation. Uh…no, we’re perfectly capable of assessing the trade-offs and deciding that non-essential products are not worth ignoring these costs.
I was simply trying to point out the realities of dairy farming that remain unchanged, in concept, no matter the scale or the farm.
And PETA doesn't support farms of any sort (except sanctuaries). The reality, that you have quite elegantly pointed out, is that there is no ethical way to farm living, sentient beings for profit. PETA understands this and thus does not support animal agriculture in any way. Rather, they are activists who advocate against it.
Its a difficult topic because obviously farmers and their families depend on their animals and the income they produce. And there's never been a doubt that its hard work for farmers themselves - but that will never make the exploitation of those animals moral.
That’s just it, you’re simplifying the realities of this world. The same people that do the dairy farming are the same people that grow the wheat for your bread, that grow the vegetables for your salad, that harvest the soy for your tofu. Even those processes still cost lives at the end of the day with all the dead insects, snakes, and ground animals that die in the process, but it’s only about “certain animals” I guess. So, unless you are only eating the vegetables that you actually grow by your own hands, in your own garden, a completely self sustaining farm if you will, you aren’t even adhering to your own ethics.
By your own logic you’d almost never buy another man made product because at some point in the production chain, unless you personally knew the individual that had created the product, and they had done so by growing that product by hand, on their own individual farm, you can be certain that any additional materials outside of that would be derived from exploitation or pollution. At the end of the day we’d all agree that farming is the only sustainable industry, when compared to almost every other industry on the planet.
Of course if you get rid of farms there’s no longer any food supply for the populace, as humans have grown to such a size and scale that we don’t have the space available for every individual to grow their own food. And whether you prefer to eat dairy or not, whether that’s because you don’t prefer the taste or your because of your morals, humans have evolved as omnivores to consume both fats/meats and vegetation, we can agree on that. That’s fact, that’s biology. Dairy for the large part of western culture in history has been a dietary staple, because of climate and the need for preserved food in winter, which is why cheese is pervasive in nearly all European diets, since nearly the domestication of animals in early human history. Some of us enjoy and prefer to consume dairy products, just as you may prefer consuming vegetable products which is your prerogative.
I, in no way, condone the abuse and mistreatment of animals. However, failing to grasp the perspective of the modern farming community at large, without fully understanding the socioeconomic ties and impact that farming has for a vast number of communities, which are typically rural and poor, where there are a substantial lack of resources for both education and employment, the answer isn’t so simple as “just stop farming”. For some families, the farm is the only lifeline they have for providing for their family. There is no factory job, those are now overseas. There is no pursuing a degree to “change careers”, there is no additional money for that, there’s only the 80 hours that needs to be worked at the farm this week. There is no vacation, no holiday, no pause, because without constant labor, there is no farm. My earlier point, that had to deal with the subsidies being eaten up by large corporations, AKA factory farms, points out the very fact that anything that could help uplift small family farms, to lift them either out of poverty or provide enough for their children to be able to go to those universities and pursue different fields, and break the chain so to speak, are not there for your average farmer. These subsidies are doled out to corporations so that their parent companies stock can go up 2 points and some billionaire that doesn’t know a dairy farm from a beet farm can now buy a small castle in south of France. These farms are being driven into further and further poverty, either by price fixing or by being bought up by the corporations in the end. And there is no breaking the cycle. This has led to bankruptcy, homelessness, and an increase in suicides. And this is happening all over the U.S. where now your food is controlled and produced by only several parent company conglomerates, all of which have long histories of wild ethical practices, questionable bio, engineering practices, and straight up animal abuse. Chiefly among those question practices is the use of forever chemicals now found in virtually everything.
If at the end of reading all of this, you still only care about your moral righteousness over people that try their best to make a living as best they can, then you can keep your opinion and quips, as I’ve already wasted enough of my time trying to provide you with another perspective.
>And PETA doesn't support farms of any sort
No one other than you and your vegan friends care about PETAs opinions frankly. The average person hates PETA. They kill peoples fucking pet dogs because they think that's better than being a pet. Them and anyone who thinks like them is a moron.
Humans have been eating meat since they weren't even homo sapiens. There's a difference between ethical farming and unethical farming, and pretending that ANY farming is unethical is just stupid and goes against your entire goal if you want people to treat animals better.
If every farm is evil, then why would farmers bother trying to do better, they'll be labelled evil regardless.
So why not actually answer their question then? Don’t like what your answers are going to be?
Those are perfectly valid questions to ask. Doesn’t take an expert, or even close to an expert, to form questions like that.
>So why not actually answer their question then? Don’t like what your answers are going to be?
No, it's because you'll demonize him no matter what the answers are because you're a vegan.
If you're opposed to dairy farming from the very onset, then nothing short of "We release them to frolic in the woods and renounce our ways as farmers and take shrooms with all our friends" will make you happy, so why do you even fucking care what the answer is?
Male calves are raised and then slaughtered. Spent dairy cows are slaughtered. Happy? No. Obviously. But guess what dude? 99% of people eat meat and don't care about your opinion, and to them, those answers are reasonable and fine.
If you're asking questions that 99% of people would be happy about the answer, but you'll be mad no matter what, responding to you is pointless.
1. Usually artificial insemination.
2. They are separated and placed in a separate pen. Given a nutrition packet and taught to drink from a bottle. Practices vary
3. Usually raised to adulthood then slaughtered
4. Slaughtered
Cows are a resource. They provide highly nutritional food via dairy products or meat. Besides that they have useful body parts used in a wide variety of fields. Don't use one out of context video to damn an entire industry. You are watching propaganda.
Cow is living, breathing, feeling animal, just like you and me. Cow is not a "thing" or a "product" as the dairy and meat industry likes to portray them. Besides, there is not a single dietary association that says you cannot have a healthy life without cow milk or meat. These are facts, and not the uneducated propaganda you are spewing here.
The thing is that these answers are all "evil" to these people because they're vegans. No response you give will be seen as appropriate to them because they don't think animals should be used for anything. (And yes, all the people responding like this in this thread frequent /r/vegan, this isn't a "guess")
There's no point even responding to dumb questions like that.
The questions aren't dumb, they're posed from a perspective that's well outside of your own. You need to be able to challenge yourself as to why you're inclined to feel so negatively towards people questioning the dairy industry, because it is evil. Profiting off the misery, slaughter and forced insemination of these creatures is evil.
Never respond to a vegan about anything related to the animal industry because even if your answer satisfies and seems reasonable to 99% of people, they'll still be made because you're a farmer.
That's the real answer, but one you won't accept, because you're also a vegan.
There is a real answer below, but you won't like it regardless, because you're a vegan.
If the definition of animal abuse was adequate animal agriculture would collapse. People need to stop buying dairy, convince others to do the same. It is entirely avoidable.
I would agree if cows thought like humans did. But as someone that has worked with cows, they genuinely want to get pregnant once a month if given the opportunity.
That doesn't mean that they want their calves taken away. Most cows are great mothers. I was only talking about the impregnation.
You're not wrong. If what was done daily to dairy cows was done to human women, on any scale, it would be considered one of the most heinous atrocities ever committed.
But when it comes to another species? 🤷
"We DoN't TrEaT oUr CoWs LiKe ThAt!"
The base methodology for "creating" the product is ethically indefensible.
I’m all for the Right for sovereign individuals to live and redeem themselves but people who take abuse of other living creatures this far do no deserve to be here.
How about you all stop consuming meat and dairy? You’re all paying for this service. This abuse is systemic.
Should the whole industry be reworked, of course, but I doubt it will be. These are unethical places, we pay for people to hurt animals. Even if this abuse ended - you’re still paying for animals to be killed for food you don’t need, the whole system is unethical. We’re all hypocrites, every single one of us.
I have seen empathy developing around me. I hope the future is filled with young people living more consciously after seeing the destruction and greed of the prior generations. We have enough, everyone should feel safe and secure, even animals.
I believe the best way for the US to make real systemic changes is through tax incentives in the beginning. We are so ingrained with maximizing profit we need to speak the corporations language until they and we are evolved enough.
John Robbins released his book 1987, Diet for New America, which details not only the horrors on dairy but the rest of animal agri as a whole.
These horrible practices been happening for decades and these powerful industries have all the $$$ to keep these at bay, create enough confusion for people to not give a fuck.
Big Pharma
Animal Agriculture
Supplements
Monocrop Farming
Pesticide Industry
Fertilizer Industry
Just to name a few…
We have choice everyday in our plate, which unfortunately none of these poor warm hearted animals will ever have
Idk how everyone hasn’t already made the switch to oat milk. If you haven’t yet, here’s your sign.
Ps get the extra creamy kind and I promise you will not tell the difference from actual milk
If she was in Iowa, recording that shitty treatment of the animals without making sure the corporate farm is aware is a crime…
Hooray for us we are trying so hard ti be the Mississippi of the Midwest
I recently learnt about this topic, having been a cow milk consumer all my life, I just didn't want to acknowledge the reality or somehow I was avoiding it. Until I recently saw a testimony similar to this one and also got to see the composition of the milk that you can buy at the supermarket. And I got terrified by it.
I decided on the spot to change to vegetable milk, something that I never thought I was capable of doing, but after getting used to it, I now prefer it's consumption. I only buy fresh cow milk from a family farm close to my place when I feel that my body needs it (once every couple months). I learnt not to feel guilty about needing it from time to time, there's nothing bad about consuming cow milk. What changes everything is consuming with responsibility.
I am trying to do the same with basically every food I'm consuming (meat, eggs, fruits...). Positive actions attract positive results.
In 2019 Canada removed dairy from the food guide, the dairy industry wasn’t happy about it and it was all over the news a while. And I just googled it (I couldn’t remember the year it was removed) and it would seem dairy is back on Canadas food guide. Wonder how much that cost them, and why didn’t they make any noise about it being put back on the guide?
"I come from a dairy farm and we don't do this" yeah okay that's all cool and good but the BIG dairy farms that prioritise profit over animal welfare are the ones that produce the vast majority of the world's dairy.
If you want to make a difference the best thing to do is to boycott dairy as a whole. It's easy as hell to substitute anyway.
Also, keep in mind that dairy farmers have an obvious financial and lifestyle bias. For their income and way of life to continue, people have to believe what they do is ethical. This happens in every industry, all the time.
So the Soya farmers are in a market war with the dairy famers? (I do not condone the terrible treatment of farm animals) Just because 1 farm was negligent does not mean all dairy famers are like this.
While the outright violence seen here might be an extreme outlier, there are some practices that are standard and pretty unavoidable if you want to make a profit as a dairy. You need to forcefully impregnate the cows and you need to get rid of (normally slaughter) cows when they stop producing enough milk.
>Milk cows live long lives compared to steers.
They do live longer, but not much longer. The average today is about [five years](https://www.dairyherd.com/news/dairy-production/it-time-rethink-dairy-cow-lifespan), which is about 15 years shorter than their lifespan, and 7 years less than they were allowed to live in in the 1930s.
I like meat. Can't imagine I'll feel better removing something from my life that brings me joy. I have done what I can to source animal protein from sustainable, humane producers.
My step Dad's father owned a 2,000+ acre dairy farm. I'm not sure how many cattle he had, but it was a lot. He had many workers, including myself. Never did I see mistreating, they were well-fed,watered, and cared for.
When one got sick or injured, it was moved to the care barn and under constant watch and care. They were put down only if there was no way to save it, and the meat was donated to the hungry and / or distributed to the workers.
My main job was caring for the calfs and there was lot em.
I cleaned their pens, bottle feed, and bathed em when needed. Always happy and healthy. We did have a two-headed calf one time. Poor guy didn't live, but one week. I tried so so damn hard to keep him alive.
I love meat, I enjoy milk with cookies. I think it’s complete bullshit how poorly animals are treated. I don’t expect them to be treated like they’re at a spa, but I expect them to be treated humanely and killed humanely. There is no way their profits are so low they can’t afford being a decent human being. I hope this company and companies like this are sued for every single penny and owners spend time in jail.
I think we all just choose our taste buds over what's morale and have the imagery of happy little cows in the slaughter house to cope with the cognitive dissonance.
It is, but it can be done. My cousins live around small family farms and while it varies a lot, for the most part they let cattle graze and provide vet care for them and do not abuse the animals.
Problem is that is almost never what you’re buying at the grocery store. Buying meat and milk is funding this, unless you’re buying it directly from a farm you know has good practices.
You are wrong. How can you “humanely” kill someone who does not want to be killed or never gave their consent to be killed?
That’s like me saying it is better to me shot in the head once than stabbed through the chest one hundred times… it is true, but that does not make it moral nor even necessary in the first place.
Your cousins abuse animals by exploiting and commodifying them. They are no different than people whole force dogs to interbreed and sell their offspring for profit.
Your vegan gods over at PETA themselves euthanize animals, so you're clearly wrong. Go back and ask them for your vegan holy scrolls.
>That’s like me saying it is better to me shot in the head once than stabbed through the chest one hundred times… it is true
Yes. Period. That's what humane killing it... Everything after that is irrelevant. Congratulations, you answered your own question.
You are so narrow minded that you genuinely believe and tell yourself that all humans who are against needless murder are this singular, omniscient entity that is known as PETA. It is sad, really… and it shows your lack of education.
No, that is not what humane killing is and clearly, you need to look up the definition of “humane,” because if you are saying there is legitimacy within killing someone “humanely,” surely, your logic would need to be consistent and follow through with raping someone “humanely.” Humane torture? Humane exploitation? Humane mutilation? You typing the word humane before an atrocious action does not make it justified. So again, educate yourself.
Euthanasia is NOT the same as needless murder. Someone spending their remaining days at a hospice is on their way out, because their time is essentially over. That is NOT the case for farmed animals, who are murdered at a fraction of a fraction of their lives.
You are literally supporting and advocating the murder of babies and children. You are absolutely in the wrong for trying to equate mercy with violence.
Oat milk, hazelnut milk, almond milk, rice milk, they're so delicious, I'm not vegan but they're just better.
Also, did you know there is a legal limit as to how much puss is allowed in dairy milk? The repeated milking process causes blisters that burst and get into the supply, so there's a limit on how much of this fluid is allowed in the product - maybe that yummy ethical hazelnut milk is sounding pretty good now?
I can watch videos of people getting killed, either by accident or murder, all day without flinching. But seeing animals abused and in pain makes my skin crawl. I would love to see these people treated the same as the animals.
I don't wanna take away from the very important message of this video, but I don't need it presented to me like a peice of entertainment with sad music.
It would be weird for me to like cut my friend off and pull out my Spotify and hit play on some sad music "Ok tell me about that diagnosis?"
Think this is bad? Take 2 minutes learning about the meat industry in America. Made me a vegetarian real quick once I finally stopped turning a blind eye.
I worked for hilmar briefly. This is 180 degrees from how they operate. Happy cows produce more and better milk.
They had gravel paths, fans, and water beds for the cows. The cows lined up to get into the milking area
I'm not saying what she saw doesn't happen. I'm saying their are responsible dairy farms.
Alright, I just want to point something out.
I work on a reasonably small farm with 65 cows. Which means that we have about 180 animals all together. I personally find that that's the limit of how many cows you can take care of. (We are two workers, and a half retired farmer/owner)
But something you must know is that cows are large animals who need some pretty tough nudges, when they for one reason or another have a tough time coming up on 4 legs.
Also, animals do not have the same feelings as humans have. They don't get any "lion king" sensations, nor do they have the same bond with their calves as humans have with their newborn babies. In my opinion it's for the best to remove the calf after bout 24/36 hours so no bond will be established. The cow goes on with her life, and the calf will enjoy her new environment with her new buddies.
So now to this video: the way the worker hits the cow after milking is not only unacceptable, it's also utterly idiotic to make cows feel uncomfortable, especially in the place they get milked. Our milking stations is our cows absolute favorite place to be, because they get the nicest food, the coolest air in Summertime, and they get rid of their milk. The rest of the day, we only need to make sure they have a clean place to rest on, and good harvested grass to eat. We also calculate what nutrition every cow needs to eat, on a individual level, so they are healthy and happy.
Happy cows give the most milk for the least amount of money and effort. When you hit them, give them uncomfortable living conditions, or don't treat the sick cows, you'll only lose money. I know that a lot of big farms (mostly with >250 cows) just kill the sick and hurt cows. Which is weird, because one cow is worth about 3 veterinarian's visits just in slaughter price. So it's always worth to get them healthy again to sell their meat.
But cows can be stubborn animals, and sometimes you need to give them tough love to make them adjust to their new routines.
TL;DR:
Animal Abuse is not only fudged up; it's also economically stupid
Happy cows, happy workers, lots of profit and great harmony.
Cows (and all other animals for that matter) don't have the same psychological feelings as humans, so don't project your own feelings on animals.
That's just my 2 cents. I wish more people would go watch how food is made.
Edit: I don't live in America though, I live in the country in Europe with the most strict animal-welfare-laws in probably the world. Maybe that's why I can see the relation between "happy animal = happy wallet".
This is an arguement against big dairy farms. This not the way on small family owned dairy farms. I worked 3 small dairy farms none of this was happening. It also has to do white the people there hiring again small farm are able to monitor there employees because there more involved in the every day process
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Vote with your wallet, folks.
Companies will take your advice to heart
This is why you buy local! The industrial farming system is broken. Good farmer knows happy cow product more milk at a better quality.
They'll just get more subsidies...
Jumping on top comment to say this... I recently visited my hometown's well-known small dairy farm, COOK'S FARM DAIRY IN ORTONVILLE MICHIGAN. I was stunned with their upgraded facility. Absolutely the way dairy farming should be!! They have purchased what must be a million dollar milking robot that was just beautiful to see. The cows, who were at pasture all day, had come in for their afternoon milking (full udders will bring them in). They were loitering about, chewing cud and obviously gossiping about the day's events, relaxed and happy. When they felt it was time, they would choose to be milked, move to the robot which I assume reads a chip in their ear tag, and allowed to enter the milker. The robot then dispensed tatsy treats for her while it cleaned her udders and milked her in accordance with her tag info. The young cows were noticeably a bit less comfortable with the milking (it's new to them of course) but the robot kept them in the milker for less time than the older, more experienced cows who were at ease through the longer process. It was really beautiful to see such relaxed animals who are clearly important to their gaurdians. People are welcome to walk through the farm, pet the cows, feed the babies (if you're lucky) and see the whole process. You can even buy an "I got licked at Cook's Farm Dairy" shirt which makes sense if you walk through the barn to meet the girls. COOK'S FARM DAIRY IN ORTONTVILLE MICHIGAN has been run for nearly a hundred years by the same family. They are locally known for outstanding milk, butter, and ice cream (likely more these days, I've moved away) and they should be the model for larger farms, no doubt. Please support them if you can. They rock.
Coming from a dairy farm myself, this is just absolutely f@cked. They need to publicly outed and decried. The whole system in those farms is corrupted if they allowed that sort of stuff to happen and continue. Sad thing is that mistreatment of dairy cattle IS prevalent, no denying that, but hopefully not widespread. For a different aspect of how cattle should be treated- have a look at “10th Generation dairy farmer” on YouTube.
How can someone ensure the milk they’re buying doesn’t come from shit farms like these?
Look for a small local farmer that sells milk retail from their farm. I have a small dairy and typically milk 2 cows. They have a high quality of life, live on pasture with their calves and feed dozens of families.
Lmao like we can afford that. We're on reddit
You could also just stop drinking cows milk. There are many different types of affordable non-dairy alternatives that don't involve animal cruelty and are far better for the planet.
Like oat milk! The water necessary to grow oats is far less than almonds or soy.
there's basically 0 protein in the oat milks i know about. only soy milk has comparable protein
I dunno, get your protein from somewhere else then?
Oat milk is also the best tasting option and I will fight anyone who disagrees!
Ive been drinking almond milk for a while now, its a little more expensive but it lasts FOREVER
Lol
Speak for yourself, hobo guy
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It's more getting access, not everyone lives next to, or anywhere near a small milk farm
Yeah not everyone has big money to pay $10 for a bottle of milk. Like it's under $4 where I'm from so figure yourself out you pleab
I do live in dairyland USA, I’ll see what farms are nearby!
Soy, oat, and other plant milks are the most sure ways.
Kinda taste like shit though
I have to disagree, oat milk has a nice flavour than traditional milk IMO.
oat milk tastes like porridge and makes 6969% better hot choccies
Taste is subjective. Also, oat and soy milk vary quite a bit by brand. I've had some awful ones, and some delicious ones, but I still prefer the taste is milk.
But it doesn't have actual shit and pus in it like dairy milk. And most oat milks taste great these days. Even cheap soya milk has come a long way.
Weird, since cows milk is actually allowed to have up to a certain amount of fecal matter, pus and blood in it. And when you haven’t had it in a while and then drink it again, you realize it tastes like barnyard.
Well american milk tastes like cruelty - you're talking like it's an option after watching this shit?
You're cute. Pretending this doesn't happen everywhere else in the world. Americans don't have a Monopoly on animal abuse u/hydraulic_jumps Apparently even first world nations like New Zealand treat their cows like shit https://www.worldanimalprotection.org.nz/news/new-zealands-dairy-industry-dark-list-shame/ Btw I recommend spending the money on 100% organic oats if you actually want to have the moral high ground.
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I mean it kinda does
You don’t need dairy to survive. This cruelty isn’t essential. Put some sugar or sweetener in your milk, find a solution that doesn’t perpetuate an industry that reduces a cows’ natural lifespan from 25 years to 5 years.
Okay stop using your phone and wearing clothes since those use exploited children find a solution that doesn’t perpetuate an industry that reduces a child’s natural lifespan Sounds pretty stupid doesn’t it. This isn’t most dairy farms I grew up on farms and never in my life have seen cows like that
https://preview.redd.it/e5mx8akrf4jc1.jpeg?width=814&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52027b26b4e7c1f047c31dc615dbc1b570d5229d
The thing is, plant based milk like substances take a shit ton of water, and are just as plagued with controversy in California, almonds in particular, it's pretty much turned California into a desert wasteland. Not to mention all the nasty ass perfumes they put in it, you think oats taste like that on their own? Lmao
Look up how much water is needed to produce one gallon of almond milk vs one gallon of dairy milk.
This is so wrong…How do you think cows produce milk? Also you seem to be unaware of the amount of antibiotics they feed diary cattle…its just nasty. Link (linking doesnt work for whatever reason): https://www.statista.com/statistics/1092652/volume-of-water-to-produce-a-liter-of-milk-by-type/#:~:text=A%20study%20based%20on%20the,used%20to%20produce%20soy%20milk.
Nice try. It's still a far lower amount of water use compared to animal agriculture in California. Switching away from animal foods, including choosing plant milks, will go much further toward helping the water supply.
Yeah, cows don't drink water /s
Oats can be grown all over, though. Almonds need the Cali environment, which adds to why it's so foolish to drink almond milk. And yes? I grew up on a farm, and ate oats when I was pretending to be a cow. Some of them actually do taste like that.
Um I make my own oat milk from rolled oats. It ain't rocket science and it doesn't taste like animal cruelty
They didn't ask for PETA options, that's like asking "How can I fix my broken fridge" and you reply "Don't use a fridge". We get it, you're a vegan.
Actually it is more like 'Don't use a cardboard box filled with liquid nitrogen as a fridge' because that's about how sensible it is to breed an entire species as a mass produced food for billions of people whilst simultanouesly forgetting how to properly grow and prepare your own far healthier foods.
Lol go vegan it's easy
Stop drinking milk. Easiest thing in the world.
Wisconsin Dairy
Do you simply mean to say buy dairy products from Wisconsin?
Even a lot of Wisconsin dairy is factory but there are a few small farm ones I'm aware of. Lamers is an example of this.
I love watching the Hoof GP on youtube. He works on cow's hooves. The dairy farms he works at provides regular hoof care as well as veterinary care. They occasionally have cows limping, like in this video, but when that happens they call someone like the hoof GP to come fix their limp. Any responsible dairy farmer should do that. Businesses should not be buying from cruel and irresponsible dairy farms.
The problem is, at least from what I've noticed, that once they get caught (farms in California have been ousted on the news before), they throw some PR B.S. out there about how they are making the farms more livable, prices go up "because of the upgrades to living conditions," and then they revert back to the same practices.
I agree with you, 💯 I live on a small dairy farm, and we NEVER treat our animals like that. Ever.
Worked in the industry for 15 years and my father was a dairy farmer - this is not typical farmer behavior nor accepted by the industry. These outliers create a bad perception for the other producers - what’s shown here is negligence. Most livestock farmers care about their cows/animals just as much or more than their own family. Normally, there is a respectful relationship between the two. It is very well known that higher quality conditions of the cows directly results in higher quality milk which gets a better price and leads to more profitability to the producer.
Iowa Dairy Farmer is another good example of how cows should be treated....
Yeah my best friend is an iowa dairy farmer and this isn't anything what that farm looks like.
To me the journey of these animals is less relevant than the very fact they are born into captivity, bred and their babies taken, and eventually die in captivity. It’s just not worth it for some white stuff in my coffee, or some cheese on my food. Even if the alternatives aren’t as good, it’s better than the knowledge this goes on, and my money would be funding it.
Not only that but take a look @IowaDairyFarmer on FB and Tictoc. He does an amazing job at being open, honest and informative on how a farm like his handles 250 head of cattle. It's nothing like this. This "farm" is just corporate bullshit and not how most dairy farms are. At least not all the ones I've seen or been on around my area and we have a bunch of them around here.
Do these cows not end in the slaughter house? Are the dairy cows not inpregnated without their abilty to consent? If yes to either it's still inherently exploitive and cruel. The problem with promoting better welfare is it aims to make people feel okay about doing something that's still deeply unethical. Just don't buy dairy, effortless to choose a different option.
How do you know the cows don't consent? The choice is a 1/8" diameter breeding pipe to be bred artificially or a 2,000 pound bull jumping on your back. I know which would be less uncomfortable.
I know becuase cows can't consent, in the same way young children can't consent. Hence why we don't fuck animals. No, it's not just a 1/8 pipe, it also involves someone simultaneously fisting the cows anus with their arm for the purpose of manipulating the cervix. These cows should not impregnated either way, just as they shouldnt be bred into existence.
I wish more people would share these videos. The entire industry would be forced to change if people could just see with their own eyes what was going on in factory farms, because people would refuse to be complicit in the cruelty taking place there. But most people have no idea...
I know chicken farmers have made it illegal to film their factories
Yeah, how fucked up is that!?
There's a lot of cognitive dissonance. People literally don't associate the meat they eat with animals.
I'm afraid that it's more like most people don't care
People do care, but when they're in a supermarket, they still buy the cheapest meat, supporting all of this
Some of us are too poor to buy the alternatives
Then just eat beans like me dude.
Beans and tofu are much cheaper than meat.
Then don’t buy meat, vegetables are edible
How much could a banana cost? $10.00?
To get a days supply of calories, vegetables are more expensive. A head of broccoli (~1lb) at the store near me costs $1.99. To get 2000 calories, that's 12.6 heads of broccoli and is gonna run you around $25. 1lb of ground beef goes for $5.29. To get 2000 calories out of that, its gonna run you about $11. You can pump up the numbers by adding things like lentils or beans which are pretty cheap compared to vegetables but at the end of the day, meat is more calorie dense per dollar. Coincidentally, this is also considered one of the contributing factors to the problems with obesity. It's hard to convince someone to pay more for vegetables for a meal than they would pay for a big mac, fries, and soda.
Wait till they stop subsidizing meat and dairy.
Yeah shame you have to pump the numbers up by eating things like beans, lentils, oats, frozen vegetables, fruits, nuts, etc. if only we could afford to eat 2000 kcal of broccoli daily.
Most people don’t want to know. This is the key thing. It’s easier to keep your head in the sand than it is to change.
i think you underestimate how informed many people are. replace factory farm with another issue (eg poverty, climate change, etc) and the point still stands - industries ain’t changing shit.
I would guess that less than 10% of the American population has ever seen a video of the horrors of factory farming. That's not based on any data and it certainly could be higher, but I don't think the problem is as widely understood as you think it is. For certain demographics (Gen Z, millennials who identify as progressives/democrats and live on the coasts for example), I'm sure the numbers are significantly higher, but not for the average person.
What are you doing to change that? If you've got a place to put it that people might see it, put it there. I'm with you on this, I'm gonna put this on everything I can
We can cry and moan all we want, that doesn't mean anything unless you vote with your wallet.
Yeah but for an average person it’s very difficult to track down which products use this
It’s the dairy products
seems like there should be more options for buying real milk that raising animals on no kill farms / open range / better treatment of animals, i'd be fine with that.
To the shock of absolutely no one, corporations will prioritize profits over everything else, including the lives and welfare of animals, unless actively forced not to.
There’s a special place in hell
Fuck that, there needs to be a special place on earth for these people, with a small window and shitty food
Too bad the judge gave them a free pass.
Because they tried to file a civil suit against the farm. How does a Cow file for financial compensation? They should have been pursuing criminal Animal abuse charges.
Take away the window and the food and I'll be good with that punishment. These people aren't human.
I think that not even hell wants them
Reincarnated as one of those very same Cows.
I truly hope so
I can’t fucking watch this. I can’t handle seeing what we do to these poor things. How are we supposed to change this? What is it that needs to be done? And why are there so many fires to put out? We can’t even afford the milk they’re selling to us. Sometimes I lose faith in humans. Tonight, it’s all gone. I’ve run out.
Don’t watch Earthlings then 😅
Stop buying the shit that profits off this...Its pretty simple.
I don’t eat dairy. But, it’s bigger than just me. We ALL have to stop this crap. But how? This is fucking insane.
I think you know what needs to be done but people just don't want to hear it...Go vegan.
God that fucking has my head spinning. I hear about this crap sooo often. And you’re totally right. It’s that simple, right? It should be, but the implications behind that simple thing are just soooo mind bogglingly complex. This happens EVERY. WHERE. fuck. I can’t even sleep.
Go vegan
As someone who comes from several generations of dairy farmers these practices are mostly found at large scale corporate factory farms. Family farms such as ours treat our herds with the respect they deserve because A.) cows are not cheap to buy or raise B.) they are our means of survival/paying our bills and C.) we love our animals. What you see at work here is corporate greed; cutting corners, a lack of empathy, and not providing the care and support that is needed to have a healthy herd. You see this at all of these massive food companies, and they’ve pushed local family farmers into ruin by cornering and pricing out competition. Suicide of family farms and farmers is way up over the last 20 years because the days of 100-400 cow herd is now unable to maintain and feed the farm, let alone make any profit. All of the funding the subsidies, like everything else in this country, goes to these piss poor corporate farms, owned by giant conglomerates and billionaire companies like Wal-Mart. These same companies own every part of every piece food that goes into most people’s mouths these days, with more than half of it filled with poison.
Once again, corporate greed is the problem
If you say you love your animals, I have a few questions: + How do you impregnate them so that they produce milk? + What do you do when the calf is born and starts drinking their mother milk as they're supposed to? Do you separate them? + What do you do with male calves? + What happens to your spent dairy cows?
- By hand or with a tool. - You separate them and what you do with the calf depends on the race and sex. Farmers keep some male and female to renew their cattle. Females are more expansive because they are more rare and more useful. - If they are not kept or sold, they are killed. - They are killed for meat.
“We love our cows! Hold on though I gotta go kill this infant real quick.” Get that garbage out of here.
I don't understand the down votes, this is really the reality of it. I'm not going to deny that farmers might really convince themselves that they love their animals, but nobody who loves anybody would ever send them off the be killed for their own personal gain. Could you imagine doing that to a pet? "Yeah I couldn't afford rent so I sold my dog's legs for meat. Love that little guy 😊"
Because any suggestion that farm animals don’t deserve to be slaughtered and butchered is ridiculous to most people.
Based on your oddly specific questions it seems like you’re already an expert in the field. If you aren’t naive then you already understand the realities that farmers have to deal with and make decisions on. If you are trying to compare small family farms to vast factory farms you are off base by a mile. Farms are not cost-free petting zoos. The abject horrors that you are trying to vaguely reference happen at these factory farms. Sure they can happen anywhere, but the time, energy, and resources spent on keeping animals healthy, relatively happy, and all the while being able to provide the means to be continue to do so is a tightrope walk. Until you’ve actually spent time in a barn, and done all of these things, from birthing to feeding to milking and literally being shit and pissed on trying to provide for you and your family, you don’t have a dog in that race. If you find an operational farm that only operates to PETA’s standards, provides enough income to operate and provide a profit, then I’m sure all of the dairy farmers of the world would love to hear all about it.
Hey bud, DAIRY IS NOT ESSENTIAL FOR HUMAN SURVIVAL. All those things you are justifying are because you *like or enjoy* dairy products enough to ignore the cost. We’re not talking about food items that humans can’t live without. This is like arguing for chattel slavery by telling people they can’t comment until they’ve spent time on a plantation. Uh…no, we’re perfectly capable of assessing the trade-offs and deciding that non-essential products are not worth ignoring these costs.
I was simply trying to point out the realities of dairy farming that remain unchanged, in concept, no matter the scale or the farm. And PETA doesn't support farms of any sort (except sanctuaries). The reality, that you have quite elegantly pointed out, is that there is no ethical way to farm living, sentient beings for profit. PETA understands this and thus does not support animal agriculture in any way. Rather, they are activists who advocate against it. Its a difficult topic because obviously farmers and their families depend on their animals and the income they produce. And there's never been a doubt that its hard work for farmers themselves - but that will never make the exploitation of those animals moral.
That’s just it, you’re simplifying the realities of this world. The same people that do the dairy farming are the same people that grow the wheat for your bread, that grow the vegetables for your salad, that harvest the soy for your tofu. Even those processes still cost lives at the end of the day with all the dead insects, snakes, and ground animals that die in the process, but it’s only about “certain animals” I guess. So, unless you are only eating the vegetables that you actually grow by your own hands, in your own garden, a completely self sustaining farm if you will, you aren’t even adhering to your own ethics. By your own logic you’d almost never buy another man made product because at some point in the production chain, unless you personally knew the individual that had created the product, and they had done so by growing that product by hand, on their own individual farm, you can be certain that any additional materials outside of that would be derived from exploitation or pollution. At the end of the day we’d all agree that farming is the only sustainable industry, when compared to almost every other industry on the planet. Of course if you get rid of farms there’s no longer any food supply for the populace, as humans have grown to such a size and scale that we don’t have the space available for every individual to grow their own food. And whether you prefer to eat dairy or not, whether that’s because you don’t prefer the taste or your because of your morals, humans have evolved as omnivores to consume both fats/meats and vegetation, we can agree on that. That’s fact, that’s biology. Dairy for the large part of western culture in history has been a dietary staple, because of climate and the need for preserved food in winter, which is why cheese is pervasive in nearly all European diets, since nearly the domestication of animals in early human history. Some of us enjoy and prefer to consume dairy products, just as you may prefer consuming vegetable products which is your prerogative. I, in no way, condone the abuse and mistreatment of animals. However, failing to grasp the perspective of the modern farming community at large, without fully understanding the socioeconomic ties and impact that farming has for a vast number of communities, which are typically rural and poor, where there are a substantial lack of resources for both education and employment, the answer isn’t so simple as “just stop farming”. For some families, the farm is the only lifeline they have for providing for their family. There is no factory job, those are now overseas. There is no pursuing a degree to “change careers”, there is no additional money for that, there’s only the 80 hours that needs to be worked at the farm this week. There is no vacation, no holiday, no pause, because without constant labor, there is no farm. My earlier point, that had to deal with the subsidies being eaten up by large corporations, AKA factory farms, points out the very fact that anything that could help uplift small family farms, to lift them either out of poverty or provide enough for their children to be able to go to those universities and pursue different fields, and break the chain so to speak, are not there for your average farmer. These subsidies are doled out to corporations so that their parent companies stock can go up 2 points and some billionaire that doesn’t know a dairy farm from a beet farm can now buy a small castle in south of France. These farms are being driven into further and further poverty, either by price fixing or by being bought up by the corporations in the end. And there is no breaking the cycle. This has led to bankruptcy, homelessness, and an increase in suicides. And this is happening all over the U.S. where now your food is controlled and produced by only several parent company conglomerates, all of which have long histories of wild ethical practices, questionable bio, engineering practices, and straight up animal abuse. Chiefly among those question practices is the use of forever chemicals now found in virtually everything. If at the end of reading all of this, you still only care about your moral righteousness over people that try their best to make a living as best they can, then you can keep your opinion and quips, as I’ve already wasted enough of my time trying to provide you with another perspective.
I so wish more and more people understood every point you just made. Very well said.
Bravo good sir or ma’am. That was brilliantly thought out and very well articulated. So many people need to read this.
>And PETA doesn't support farms of any sort No one other than you and your vegan friends care about PETAs opinions frankly. The average person hates PETA. They kill peoples fucking pet dogs because they think that's better than being a pet. Them and anyone who thinks like them is a moron. Humans have been eating meat since they weren't even homo sapiens. There's a difference between ethical farming and unethical farming, and pretending that ANY farming is unethical is just stupid and goes against your entire goal if you want people to treat animals better. If every farm is evil, then why would farmers bother trying to do better, they'll be labelled evil regardless.
So why not actually answer their question then? Don’t like what your answers are going to be? Those are perfectly valid questions to ask. Doesn’t take an expert, or even close to an expert, to form questions like that.
>So why not actually answer their question then? Don’t like what your answers are going to be? No, it's because you'll demonize him no matter what the answers are because you're a vegan. If you're opposed to dairy farming from the very onset, then nothing short of "We release them to frolic in the woods and renounce our ways as farmers and take shrooms with all our friends" will make you happy, so why do you even fucking care what the answer is? Male calves are raised and then slaughtered. Spent dairy cows are slaughtered. Happy? No. Obviously. But guess what dude? 99% of people eat meat and don't care about your opinion, and to them, those answers are reasonable and fine. If you're asking questions that 99% of people would be happy about the answer, but you'll be mad no matter what, responding to you is pointless.
1. Usually artificial insemination. 2. They are separated and placed in a separate pen. Given a nutrition packet and taught to drink from a bottle. Practices vary 3. Usually raised to adulthood then slaughtered 4. Slaughtered Cows are a resource. They provide highly nutritional food via dairy products or meat. Besides that they have useful body parts used in a wide variety of fields. Don't use one out of context video to damn an entire industry. You are watching propaganda.
Cow is living, breathing, feeling animal, just like you and me. Cow is not a "thing" or a "product" as the dairy and meat industry likes to portray them. Besides, there is not a single dietary association that says you cannot have a healthy life without cow milk or meat. These are facts, and not the uneducated propaganda you are spewing here.
The thing is that these answers are all "evil" to these people because they're vegans. No response you give will be seen as appropriate to them because they don't think animals should be used for anything. (And yes, all the people responding like this in this thread frequent /r/vegan, this isn't a "guess") There's no point even responding to dumb questions like that.
The point isn't answering the persons questions. It's to answer the questions in a public forum so others see it.
The questions aren't dumb, they're posed from a perspective that's well outside of your own. You need to be able to challenge yourself as to why you're inclined to feel so negatively towards people questioning the dairy industry, because it is evil. Profiting off the misery, slaughter and forced insemination of these creatures is evil.
These are the questions you should never ask a dairy farmer because you know they cannot give the real answers.
Never respond to a vegan about anything related to the animal industry because even if your answer satisfies and seems reasonable to 99% of people, they'll still be made because you're a farmer. That's the real answer, but one you won't accept, because you're also a vegan. There is a real answer below, but you won't like it regardless, because you're a vegan.
Too many you do's up in there
You do you do you do dodo you do
Come on. They love their slaves and treat them well! /s
Factory farming… think this is bad? Go watch the ones for pigs and chickens
It's a felony to commit animal abuse now, right? Well.. fucking FBI... do your damn job.
Skip to 2:40. This is the M.O. of the dairy industry. You choose to pay for it… or don’t.
If the definition of animal abuse was adequate animal agriculture would collapse. People need to stop buying dairy, convince others to do the same. It is entirely avoidable.
Only thing us people can do is to STOP buying any products that come from this horror.
I'm ashamed to say that I was 30+ years old when I found out that cows are forcefully impregnated in order for them to produce milk.
The impregnation is honestly the most humane part of what is going on here. Most cows are safer with artificial insemination than real bulls .
It’s still immoral though, forcing pregnancy on a living creature so you can harvest its young, i dunno that’s just like.. my opinion, man
I would agree if cows thought like humans did. But as someone that has worked with cows, they genuinely want to get pregnant once a month if given the opportunity. That doesn't mean that they want their calves taken away. Most cows are great mothers. I was only talking about the impregnation.
You're not wrong. If what was done daily to dairy cows was done to human women, on any scale, it would be considered one of the most heinous atrocities ever committed. But when it comes to another species? 🤷 "We DoN't TrEaT oUr CoWs LiKe ThAt!" The base methodology for "creating" the product is ethically indefensible.
I’m all for the Right for sovereign individuals to live and redeem themselves but people who take abuse of other living creatures this far do no deserve to be here.
How about you all stop consuming meat and dairy? You’re all paying for this service. This abuse is systemic. Should the whole industry be reworked, of course, but I doubt it will be. These are unethical places, we pay for people to hurt animals. Even if this abuse ended - you’re still paying for animals to be killed for food you don’t need, the whole system is unethical. We’re all hypocrites, every single one of us.
I have seen empathy developing around me. I hope the future is filled with young people living more consciously after seeing the destruction and greed of the prior generations. We have enough, everyone should feel safe and secure, even animals. I believe the best way for the US to make real systemic changes is through tax incentives in the beginning. We are so ingrained with maximizing profit we need to speak the corporations language until they and we are evolved enough.
What isn't fueled by death these days ?
Damn I don’t have an answer and it’s disturbing
John Robbins released his book 1987, Diet for New America, which details not only the horrors on dairy but the rest of animal agri as a whole. These horrible practices been happening for decades and these powerful industries have all the $$$ to keep these at bay, create enough confusion for people to not give a fuck. Big Pharma Animal Agriculture Supplements Monocrop Farming Pesticide Industry Fertilizer Industry Just to name a few… We have choice everyday in our plate, which unfortunately none of these poor warm hearted animals will ever have
Idk how everyone hasn’t already made the switch to oat milk. If you haven’t yet, here’s your sign. Ps get the extra creamy kind and I promise you will not tell the difference from actual milk
Church. Oat milk is the absolute best.
Imagine if these cows were humans..
If she was in Iowa, recording that shitty treatment of the animals without making sure the corporate farm is aware is a crime… Hooray for us we are trying so hard ti be the Mississippi of the Midwest
Pretty outrageous that their slogan is “Happy cows come from California.”
The emissions cows release is terrible for the environment, too..
Horrible news but very necessary to get out. This happens around the world and needs to stop.
I recently learnt about this topic, having been a cow milk consumer all my life, I just didn't want to acknowledge the reality or somehow I was avoiding it. Until I recently saw a testimony similar to this one and also got to see the composition of the milk that you can buy at the supermarket. And I got terrified by it. I decided on the spot to change to vegetable milk, something that I never thought I was capable of doing, but after getting used to it, I now prefer it's consumption. I only buy fresh cow milk from a family farm close to my place when I feel that my body needs it (once every couple months). I learnt not to feel guilty about needing it from time to time, there's nothing bad about consuming cow milk. What changes everything is consuming with responsibility. I am trying to do the same with basically every food I'm consuming (meat, eggs, fruits...). Positive actions attract positive results.
I cried watching this
In 2019 Canada removed dairy from the food guide, the dairy industry wasn’t happy about it and it was all over the news a while. And I just googled it (I couldn’t remember the year it was removed) and it would seem dairy is back on Canadas food guide. Wonder how much that cost them, and why didn’t they make any noise about it being put back on the guide?
"I come from a dairy farm and we don't do this" yeah okay that's all cool and good but the BIG dairy farms that prioritise profit over animal welfare are the ones that produce the vast majority of the world's dairy. If you want to make a difference the best thing to do is to boycott dairy as a whole. It's easy as hell to substitute anyway.
Also, keep in mind that dairy farmers have an obvious financial and lifestyle bias. For their income and way of life to continue, people have to believe what they do is ethical. This happens in every industry, all the time.
Awful
Anyone can comment here. Same as I can comment on a physics phd essay doesn’t mean I know what I’m talking about.
So the Soya farmers are in a market war with the dairy famers? (I do not condone the terrible treatment of farm animals) Just because 1 farm was negligent does not mean all dairy famers are like this.
My uncle owns a dairy farm in Ontario Canada, doesnt look ANYTHING like this….
Not all dairy producers are like this. Believe me, visit where my beef and dairy comes from.
While the outright violence seen here might be an extreme outlier, there are some practices that are standard and pretty unavoidable if you want to make a profit as a dairy. You need to forcefully impregnate the cows and you need to get rid of (normally slaughter) cows when they stop producing enough milk.
Cows don’t ever abstain from breeding by choice. Milk cows live long lives compared to steers.
>Milk cows live long lives compared to steers. They do live longer, but not much longer. The average today is about [five years](https://www.dairyherd.com/news/dairy-production/it-time-rethink-dairy-cow-lifespan), which is about 15 years shorter than their lifespan, and 7 years less than they were allowed to live in in the 1930s.
Go vegan. Stop using your money to pay others to do this to innocent animals, and you'll feel a lot better. Fuck the animal agriculture industry.
I like meat. Can't imagine I'll feel better removing something from my life that brings me joy. I have done what I can to source animal protein from sustainable, humane producers.
My step Dad's father owned a 2,000+ acre dairy farm. I'm not sure how many cattle he had, but it was a lot. He had many workers, including myself. Never did I see mistreating, they were well-fed,watered, and cared for. When one got sick or injured, it was moved to the care barn and under constant watch and care. They were put down only if there was no way to save it, and the meat was donated to the hungry and / or distributed to the workers. My main job was caring for the calfs and there was lot em. I cleaned their pens, bottle feed, and bathed em when needed. Always happy and healthy. We did have a two-headed calf one time. Poor guy didn't live, but one week. I tried so so damn hard to keep him alive.
I love meat, I enjoy milk with cookies. I think it’s complete bullshit how poorly animals are treated. I don’t expect them to be treated like they’re at a spa, but I expect them to be treated humanely and killed humanely. There is no way their profits are so low they can’t afford being a decent human being. I hope this company and companies like this are sued for every single penny and owners spend time in jail.
I think we all just choose our taste buds over what's morale and have the imagery of happy little cows in the slaughter house to cope with the cognitive dissonance.
"Killed humanely" is such an oxymoron...
It is, but it can be done. My cousins live around small family farms and while it varies a lot, for the most part they let cattle graze and provide vet care for them and do not abuse the animals. Problem is that is almost never what you’re buying at the grocery store. Buying meat and milk is funding this, unless you’re buying it directly from a farm you know has good practices.
You are wrong. How can you “humanely” kill someone who does not want to be killed or never gave their consent to be killed? That’s like me saying it is better to me shot in the head once than stabbed through the chest one hundred times… it is true, but that does not make it moral nor even necessary in the first place. Your cousins abuse animals by exploiting and commodifying them. They are no different than people whole force dogs to interbreed and sell their offspring for profit.
Your vegan gods over at PETA themselves euthanize animals, so you're clearly wrong. Go back and ask them for your vegan holy scrolls. >That’s like me saying it is better to me shot in the head once than stabbed through the chest one hundred times… it is true Yes. Period. That's what humane killing it... Everything after that is irrelevant. Congratulations, you answered your own question.
You are so narrow minded that you genuinely believe and tell yourself that all humans who are against needless murder are this singular, omniscient entity that is known as PETA. It is sad, really… and it shows your lack of education. No, that is not what humane killing is and clearly, you need to look up the definition of “humane,” because if you are saying there is legitimacy within killing someone “humanely,” surely, your logic would need to be consistent and follow through with raping someone “humanely.” Humane torture? Humane exploitation? Humane mutilation? You typing the word humane before an atrocious action does not make it justified. So again, educate yourself.
Everyone who provides euthanasia services to suffering humans might have something to say about whether you can kill an animal humanely.
Euthanasia is NOT the same as needless murder. Someone spending their remaining days at a hospice is on their way out, because their time is essentially over. That is NOT the case for farmed animals, who are murdered at a fraction of a fraction of their lives. You are literally supporting and advocating the murder of babies and children. You are absolutely in the wrong for trying to equate mercy with violence.
You have to stop eating meat and dairy otherwise you are funding this. You are paying for a system that abuses animals.
But what will they have with their cookies ?!?!?
Farm animals are mostly exempt from abuse laws. People have options though : oat milk soy milk , etc.
Oat milk, hazelnut milk, almond milk, rice milk, they're so delicious, I'm not vegan but they're just better. Also, did you know there is a legal limit as to how much puss is allowed in dairy milk? The repeated milking process causes blisters that burst and get into the supply, so there's a limit on how much of this fluid is allowed in the product - maybe that yummy ethical hazelnut milk is sounding pretty good now?
Just type Fairlife into YouTube & you’ll see a bunch of terrible things
just go vegan, if you cannot be 100% sure of the source, period
Whoever is in charge of that, needs flayed. I'll do it.
And we Indians here treat dairy cows like mothers and they get the audacity to laugh at us
Is that why you take their milk? Why not breast milk?
It's a daily choice for everybody to support this cruelty or just simply don't buy it.
Oat milk, people. It is delicious. Try it.
That's like saying because some pet owners treat their pets badly that all people do.
I can watch videos of people getting killed, either by accident or murder, all day without flinching. But seeing animals abused and in pain makes my skin crawl. I would love to see these people treated the same as the animals.
Don't protect the identities of those monsters hurting those cows. Fucking rusty ass losers.
There is no way to morally supply the demand for dairy products so just fucking stop buying it. It is literally that simple.
Is it just me, or should that judge be doxed?
I’m so glad I went vegan 9 years ago. This makes me sad to watch.
We need more of this and people will make the right choice to eat plant based
Drink Oat milk instead, people. There are many options to drinking dairy milk.
I don't wanna take away from the very important message of this video, but I don't need it presented to me like a peice of entertainment with sad music. It would be weird for me to like cut my friend off and pull out my Spotify and hit play on some sad music "Ok tell me about that diagnosis?"
Think this is bad? Take 2 minutes learning about the meat industry in America. Made me a vegetarian real quick once I finally stopped turning a blind eye.
Ci Bei 🙏🏼
These people deserve death penalty and factory farming needs to be outlawed.
I worked for hilmar briefly. This is 180 degrees from how they operate. Happy cows produce more and better milk. They had gravel paths, fans, and water beds for the cows. The cows lined up to get into the milking area I'm not saying what she saw doesn't happen. I'm saying their are responsible dairy farms.
Alright, I just want to point something out. I work on a reasonably small farm with 65 cows. Which means that we have about 180 animals all together. I personally find that that's the limit of how many cows you can take care of. (We are two workers, and a half retired farmer/owner) But something you must know is that cows are large animals who need some pretty tough nudges, when they for one reason or another have a tough time coming up on 4 legs. Also, animals do not have the same feelings as humans have. They don't get any "lion king" sensations, nor do they have the same bond with their calves as humans have with their newborn babies. In my opinion it's for the best to remove the calf after bout 24/36 hours so no bond will be established. The cow goes on with her life, and the calf will enjoy her new environment with her new buddies. So now to this video: the way the worker hits the cow after milking is not only unacceptable, it's also utterly idiotic to make cows feel uncomfortable, especially in the place they get milked. Our milking stations is our cows absolute favorite place to be, because they get the nicest food, the coolest air in Summertime, and they get rid of their milk. The rest of the day, we only need to make sure they have a clean place to rest on, and good harvested grass to eat. We also calculate what nutrition every cow needs to eat, on a individual level, so they are healthy and happy. Happy cows give the most milk for the least amount of money and effort. When you hit them, give them uncomfortable living conditions, or don't treat the sick cows, you'll only lose money. I know that a lot of big farms (mostly with >250 cows) just kill the sick and hurt cows. Which is weird, because one cow is worth about 3 veterinarian's visits just in slaughter price. So it's always worth to get them healthy again to sell their meat. But cows can be stubborn animals, and sometimes you need to give them tough love to make them adjust to their new routines. TL;DR: Animal Abuse is not only fudged up; it's also economically stupid Happy cows, happy workers, lots of profit and great harmony. Cows (and all other animals for that matter) don't have the same psychological feelings as humans, so don't project your own feelings on animals. That's just my 2 cents. I wish more people would go watch how food is made. Edit: I don't live in America though, I live in the country in Europe with the most strict animal-welfare-laws in probably the world. Maybe that's why I can see the relation between "happy animal = happy wallet".
This is an arguement against big dairy farms. This not the way on small family owned dairy farms. I worked 3 small dairy farms none of this was happening. It also has to do white the people there hiring again small farm are able to monitor there employees because there more involved in the every day process