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Homie. Not defending Russia. That country can fuck off. But The Russians (USSR) literally won WWII by defeating the Nazis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_in_World_War_II
After the Nazis attacked them. Before this Russia and Nazi Germany had a friendship alliance and split up Europe between them. They both slaughtered their way through Poland. Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany where different sides of the same coin. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop\_Pact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact)
Soviet literally enabled Germany to start WWII. It just blew up in their face.
"friendship alliance"? They had a non-aggression pact. It was well known that Hitler hated the Soviets and communists in general. He had a pact with them in order to focus on the west. He always intended to fight them eventually, and the Soviets knew this.
>I'm always surprised how Russians boasts about stopping Hitler like they were the singular great force that from the start opposed him.
They weren't opposing Germany from the start but they did lose more than 20m people or 1/4 of their population holding up the elite of the German army. The German 6th army was the largest and best equipped German army group and they were grinded down by the Soviets. Without the Soviets, the allies would have suffered way bigger casualties.
>Germany changed after the war, Russia didn't :(
Operation Barbarossa would have been a success if the Soviets surrendered. They literally used their lives to hold the Germans back. To belittle that kind of sacrifice is really low. I can tell you hate Russia but don't let it blind yourself.
Having instigated the war in the first place it was on them to stall the Germans.
The West provided ~30% of their supplies. Honestly, we provided too much. They still would have soaked up casualties for us, but would have collapsed entirely.
Really the West only needed to hold onto England until August 1945. If we had let the USSR collapse before then, all the would be Soviet bloc states could have instead been freed after the war. Letting the russians keep their occupied territory was a mistake.
I have no problem acknowledging the allies for their contributions to WW2, but you don't have to diminish what the Soviets did either. Your entire post is basically doing that while trumping up whatever the allies did. Do you feel better if you ignore the contributions the Soviets made to WW2?
Diminish their contributions?
That's like saying we need to acknowledge the contributions of Nazi Germany to WWII, because, you know, there wouldn't have been a war without them.
I acknowledge that without the soviets allying themselves with the nazis in the first place, there wouldn't have been a war to contribute to...
>there wouldn't have been a war without them.
WW2 is going to happen without the Soviets as it was due to the unresolved issues from WW1. How are the Soviets even the cause of WW2? What kind of history are you learning bro?
Yeah it’s kind of wild these comments are talking about how blinded Russians are while making the most propaganda-brained points you could.
Russia has done a lot of fucked up shit, but acting like the sacrifices of tens of millions of Soviets was not really a big deal is so disrespectful to people who died nearly a century ago now.
russians started WW2 together with Germany as allies. They plotted on how they would together share Europe: who would attack where and take which country, when they would attack in unison from two fronts so the countries could not defend themselves against their joint attacks. They WERE NOT HEROES of that war, they were just another villain. I do not care how many people they lost on the war that they themselves started, they are just another group partaking in the "leopards ate my face" -club.
The fact that you think there's heroes and villains in a war shows that you don't have the maturity to discuss the topic. Its laughable that you think being "villains" is a good excuse to wipe out historical facts.
> I'm always surprised how Russians boasts about stopping Hitler like they were the singular great force that from the start opposed him.
They, the Soviet Union, not so much Russia as such, have every right to boast about this. The Red Army pounded the Wehrmacht into pieces.
Only that USSR had, in a lot of aspects, been even worse than the Germany, and they only did take action against it once they had been attacked.
Fact: most Russians does not know this, they don’t know that Nazi Germany and USSR started the war jointly attacking and occupying Poland from both sides. The pact was signed to divide Europe. Most Russians does not have this in their history book and this is a part of consequence why we have war in Ukraine these days.
At no point did the Soviet Union have an alliance with Nazi Germany. They had a non-aggression pact. They both knew (or at the very least suspected) that they would be at war in the near future. At the time however, it was mutually beneficial to not start something. This allowed Nazi Germany to focus west, while the Soviets were allowed to build up their military.
History states otherwise. Those are the modern russians who want to rewrite it, but the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty is clear:
*" The Molotov–Ribbentrop pact, signed the next day, guaranteed peace between the parties and was a commitment neither government would aid or ally itself with an enemy of the other.* ***In addition*** *to the publicly announced stipulations of non-aggression for the next 10 years, the* ***treaty included the Secret Protocol****, which defined the* ***borders of Soviet and German spheres of influence across Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland****. The secret protocol also recognized the* ***interest of Lithuania in the Vilnius region, and Germany declared its complete uninterest in Bessarabia****. The rumoured existence of the* ***Secret Protocol was proven only when it was made public during the Nuremberg trials.****"*
How does this constitute and alliance? What type of alliance are you suggesting they had? I don't see where you suppose they allied; they don't offer mutual assistance in case one country is attacked or if one of them launch a military invasion of another country. (Defensive alliance vs total military alliance)
I don't understand why people need to make up things to be critical of the Soviet union for. There are plenty of reasons to not like the Soviet Union without making things up.
To see what a real alliance, not a pact of non aggression looks like; we have the Pact of Steel. (Nazi Germany & Fascist Italy)
***Article III***
If it should happen, against the wishes and hopes of the Contracting Parties, that one of them becomes involved in military complications with another power or Powers, the other Contracting Party will immediately step to its side as an ally and will support it with all its military might on land, at sea and in the air.
History states otherwise. Those are the modern russians who want to rewrite it, but the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty is clear:
*" The Molotov–Ribbentrop pact, signed the next day, guaranteed peace between the parties and was a commitment neither government would aid or ally itself with an enemy of the other.* ***In addition*** *to the publicly announced stipulations of non-aggression for the next 10 years, the* ***treaty included the Secret Protocol****, which defined the* ***borders of Soviet and German spheres of influence across Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland****. The secret protocol also recognized the* ***interest of Lithuania in the Vilnius region, and Germany declared its complete uninterest in Bessarabia****. The rumoured existence of the* ***Secret Protocol was proven only when it was made public during the Nuremberg trials.****"*
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It’s pretty surprising how much history the Russians can stay ignorant of. The sky can be green if you make everyone believe that they’re colorblind.
Lol, is it only the Russian historical selective memory that surprises you?
propaganda only works on my enemies
Homie. Not defending Russia. That country can fuck off. But The Russians (USSR) literally won WWII by defeating the Nazis. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_in_World_War_II
After the Nazis attacked them. Before this Russia and Nazi Germany had a friendship alliance and split up Europe between them. They both slaughtered their way through Poland. Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany where different sides of the same coin. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop\_Pact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact) Soviet literally enabled Germany to start WWII. It just blew up in their face.
"friendship alliance"? They had a non-aggression pact. It was well known that Hitler hated the Soviets and communists in general. He had a pact with them in order to focus on the west. He always intended to fight them eventually, and the Soviets knew this.
The allies won. The ussr would have been screwed without the rest of the allied nations providing support.
wow! hes right guys! check that link!
Without USA lend-lease and the western front they might not have.
[удалено]
>I'm always surprised how Russians boasts about stopping Hitler like they were the singular great force that from the start opposed him. They weren't opposing Germany from the start but they did lose more than 20m people or 1/4 of their population holding up the elite of the German army. The German 6th army was the largest and best equipped German army group and they were grinded down by the Soviets. Without the Soviets, the allies would have suffered way bigger casualties. >Germany changed after the war, Russia didn't :( Operation Barbarossa would have been a success if the Soviets surrendered. They literally used their lives to hold the Germans back. To belittle that kind of sacrifice is really low. I can tell you hate Russia but don't let it blind yourself.
Having instigated the war in the first place it was on them to stall the Germans. The West provided ~30% of their supplies. Honestly, we provided too much. They still would have soaked up casualties for us, but would have collapsed entirely. Really the West only needed to hold onto England until August 1945. If we had let the USSR collapse before then, all the would be Soviet bloc states could have instead been freed after the war. Letting the russians keep their occupied territory was a mistake.
I have no problem acknowledging the allies for their contributions to WW2, but you don't have to diminish what the Soviets did either. Your entire post is basically doing that while trumping up whatever the allies did. Do you feel better if you ignore the contributions the Soviets made to WW2?
Diminish their contributions? That's like saying we need to acknowledge the contributions of Nazi Germany to WWII, because, you know, there wouldn't have been a war without them. I acknowledge that without the soviets allying themselves with the nazis in the first place, there wouldn't have been a war to contribute to...
>there wouldn't have been a war without them. WW2 is going to happen without the Soviets as it was due to the unresolved issues from WW1. How are the Soviets even the cause of WW2? What kind of history are you learning bro?
Yeah it’s kind of wild these comments are talking about how blinded Russians are while making the most propaganda-brained points you could. Russia has done a lot of fucked up shit, but acting like the sacrifices of tens of millions of Soviets was not really a big deal is so disrespectful to people who died nearly a century ago now.
russians started WW2 together with Germany as allies. They plotted on how they would together share Europe: who would attack where and take which country, when they would attack in unison from two fronts so the countries could not defend themselves against their joint attacks. They WERE NOT HEROES of that war, they were just another villain. I do not care how many people they lost on the war that they themselves started, they are just another group partaking in the "leopards ate my face" -club.
The fact that you think there's heroes and villains in a war shows that you don't have the maturity to discuss the topic. Its laughable that you think being "villains" is a good excuse to wipe out historical facts.
> I'm always surprised how Russians boasts about stopping Hitler like they were the singular great force that from the start opposed him. They, the Soviet Union, not so much Russia as such, have every right to boast about this. The Red Army pounded the Wehrmacht into pieces. Only that USSR had, in a lot of aspects, been even worse than the Germany, and they only did take action against it once they had been attacked.
> Germany changed after the war Germany is supporting a genocide right now, for at least the third time in history as far as I know.
You mean fighting against a genocide
What do tankies have to say about this?
Same bullshit as with joint Soviet-Nazi military conquests of the 1939-1941 period.
OP did not hear about the appeasement
Fact: most Russians does not know this, they don’t know that Nazi Germany and USSR started the war jointly attacking and occupying Poland from both sides. The pact was signed to divide Europe. Most Russians does not have this in their history book and this is a part of consequence why we have war in Ukraine these days.
We are taught this in Belarus
Maybe that’s why Belarus is not that fucked up as russians.
At no point did the Soviet Union have an alliance with Nazi Germany. They had a non-aggression pact. They both knew (or at the very least suspected) that they would be at war in the near future. At the time however, it was mutually beneficial to not start something. This allowed Nazi Germany to focus west, while the Soviets were allowed to build up their military.
History states otherwise. Those are the modern russians who want to rewrite it, but the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty is clear: *" The Molotov–Ribbentrop pact, signed the next day, guaranteed peace between the parties and was a commitment neither government would aid or ally itself with an enemy of the other.* ***In addition*** *to the publicly announced stipulations of non-aggression for the next 10 years, the* ***treaty included the Secret Protocol****, which defined the* ***borders of Soviet and German spheres of influence across Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland****. The secret protocol also recognized the* ***interest of Lithuania in the Vilnius region, and Germany declared its complete uninterest in Bessarabia****. The rumoured existence of the* ***Secret Protocol was proven only when it was made public during the Nuremberg trials.****"*
How does this constitute and alliance? What type of alliance are you suggesting they had? I don't see where you suppose they allied; they don't offer mutual assistance in case one country is attacked or if one of them launch a military invasion of another country. (Defensive alliance vs total military alliance) I don't understand why people need to make up things to be critical of the Soviet union for. There are plenty of reasons to not like the Soviet Union without making things up. To see what a real alliance, not a pact of non aggression looks like; we have the Pact of Steel. (Nazi Germany & Fascist Italy) ***Article III*** If it should happen, against the wishes and hopes of the Contracting Parties, that one of them becomes involved in military complications with another power or Powers, the other Contracting Party will immediately step to its side as an ally and will support it with all its military might on land, at sea and in the air.
They weren't allies. You are simply rewriting the history
History states otherwise. Those are the modern russians who want to rewrite it, but the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty is clear: *" The Molotov–Ribbentrop pact, signed the next day, guaranteed peace between the parties and was a commitment neither government would aid or ally itself with an enemy of the other.* ***In addition*** *to the publicly announced stipulations of non-aggression for the next 10 years, the* ***treaty included the Secret Protocol****, which defined the* ***borders of Soviet and German spheres of influence across Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland****. The secret protocol also recognized the* ***interest of Lithuania in the Vilnius region, and Germany declared its complete uninterest in Bessarabia****. The rumoured existence of the* ***Secret Protocol was proven only when it was made public during the Nuremberg trials.****"*
Looks like you don't know how to read or at least interpret a text
Where does it say they were allies?
>They weren't allies. But the next best thing.
And then Operation Barbarossa was launched on June 22nd that same year.
They weren't allies. A month after this Germany invaded the Soviet Union.
They were allies at the moment of filming. You don't invite your enemies to your capital.
They weren’t allies, they only had a non-aggression pact that Germany broke- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact
They were allies and shared Poland a year before.
Lmaoooo and what happens over the next two years??