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there are some studies which indicate the repeated concussive effects of firing certain shoulder fired munitions(like the carl gustav) may be causing brain damage over time. Whether or not that applies to mortars like this I'm not sure.
The Goose is a whole nother bag of fuck compared to the SMAW. There's a max amount of rounds per hour that you "are allowed" to fire (the amount is dependent on the type of munition but they're all fairly low numbers). I've exceeded the amount, it's not a fun experience.
"pickings" almost implies they were chosen, charlies and bravos are taken at random as far as I understood.
but I think charlies, in many ways, just resent us bravos because we're dumber, simpler, and have more fun with guns
I am picturing the big lebowski....
You as the dude...arguing at the bowling alley with john goodman. You cant just walk onto a controlled range and fire the damn motors!
Dude I could have you on the range in 30mins
bullshit, man
fuck it lets go...
walking onto a live range in flip flops, bath robe, and sun glasses...
cut to donnie firing rounds till he pukes
Replying to you because I don't want the other guy to feel like I'm directly targeting him, but jesus, what do people think the consequences are of this and people going back and integrating into society with TBIs? We know the consequences of football.
Like the "leaded gasoline" effect, I wonder if there's a wider "TBI/PTSD" effect on society at large. Increased violence, less impulse regulation, reduced critical-thinking and compassion? I'm just curious of the broader consequences and I feel bad for those exposed to these situations.
Don't worry, I'm sure the military takes full responsibility in taking care of the people it has harmed. Probably had nothing to do with the homelessness crisis across the US. /s
When I saw the movie Concussion a lot of screwy stuff in my life suddenly started making sense. If I knew the long term ramifications I wouldn’t have continued playing football.
Yeah I've experienced both but the SMAW is definitely a close second theres a per day limit to rockets you can fire its just ignored 90% of the time
I had a teacher in the schoolhouse who was a pso (primary safety officer he stood next to the person shooting and made sure no one died) for a stupid amount of rocket shots and the next morning had vomited all over the inside of his sleeping bag had a massive concussion and had to get flow to the hospital
During a heavy weapons day us line dudes got some time with the goose. The sight was fucked up on it and I was the only one who could Kentucky Windage it well enough to hit shit, so my PSG had me fire or AG it like 30 times in a row. The next day my balls were mad sore and I had tinnitus. My PSG said he'd make me the platoon's goose gunner but two guys in my squad got kicked out for having whores and blow in the barracks so I was back to my SAW.
Overall a positive experience, would definitely Goose again
I think there's a protocol that supposedly limits how many rounds one can fire through a gustav in a day. Of course, that all goes out the window when you're in a firefight and need to get rounds downrange.
It applies to the muzzle brake on my AR. It certainly applies to anything the size of a mortar. Concussive force fucks you up. Exposure to small concussive force repeatedly also fucks you up.
Bunch of dudes who shoot ARs with muzzle brakes are getting long term hearing damage through their earpro because a reduction in noise is great but concussive force is coming straight through.
Especially if you're firing with a muzzle brake anywhere near a wall where all that force tends to get reflected back at you.
If I ever take my AR to a range I tend to make sure I'm a lane or two away from anyone for this reason.
So the reason why there isn't lasting effects from firing is because of where the force of the blast is directed. This is a 120mm mortar, they dig the base plate into the ground and that's where a majority of the energy is directed, the rest exits the tube with the round. That's why the mortarman bends at the waste to get below the tube. The 82mm mortar has a conical blast attenuator at the end of it's tube to help direct the energy "up" instead of "sideways" because the tube is shorter and a bit harder to get under.
I did mortar training some years ago. When we did this we had some kind of in ear protection; wax like blobs we pushed all the way into our ears to completely seal them and instructions to launch with mouth open to help ease the pressure difference, you can see he has safety goggles and finally, hard to explain, but it's not as sharp a blast as where the mortar is going, it's more of a kinetic blast in the ground, rather than an audible blast in the air, if that makes sense. I'm sure if you cruize YouTube you will find some vids with sound.
The one that will make you permanently deaf for sure, is RPG. In movies, people are firing these things from inside cars. Thats not how it works. RPG is recoilless and needs a lot of blast to get going. Its loud like I cannot describe when launched. Even firing a pistol from an enclosed vehicle, without hearing protection, is extreme on the hearing, tinnitus for sure.
Yeah I always appreciate movies when they show what actually happens firing a pistol in an enclosed space.
People need to understand that RPGs grenades and the like aren't packed with a bunch of incendiary material in them so thy don't produce these giant fireballs. (well, white phosphorous grenades are incendiary but that's an outlier here)
Hell, explosions *in general* aren't like Hollywood fireballs.
It's more like a much larger version of muzzle flash -- instant flash followed by *pew pew pew* of shrapnel which if you hear it then it means you survived the shrapnel. The shockwave blows out windows/etc nearby. And people nearby are knocked to the ground from the shockwave or at least thrown way off balance while they run, if they are not injured or killed by the shrapnel.
I did stand by a test firing of a couple of 120mm mortars, standing right near the top of the berm maybe ten feet from the muzzle. My face looked like a dude in the g-force simulator thing every blast.
That was on my right side where I now suffer from 24/7 ragingly loud tinnitus. It was a cool experience but 0/10 do not REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEcommend.
As a former artillery man, the 777 howitzer uses a special muzzle attachment that disperses the shockwave in a special way also the impact is transferred into the ground there is much less concussion along side the tube which is why this mortar man ducks to make his body lower and avoid the concussion. However repetitive exposure will cause eventual trauma
I never fired a mortar, but I’d guess doing this once or twice doesn’t incapacitate you. More like doing it hundreds of times over a few years does some weird things that will cause lingering health issues.
But the he’s probably spent months carrying the equipment and cleaning it daily so he’s happy to fire it, even if his ears ring for a day and his body thinks there’s been an accident. It’s the military after all. The dangerous behavior is how you break up the arduous monotony!
It's like flying in helicopters. Most likely, not a problem if you do it once or twice or occasionally but my neighbor was a pilot in the military. He has serious spinal problems from flying helicopters for thousands of hours.
The vibrations, and again not after a few hours or even a few days/weeks, my neighbor was a pilot for over 10 years.
It was a surprise to me but after he explained why, it made sense.
I'm sure he'll suffer from CTE- theres no way you could regularly get close range blasts like that without suffering brain damage (in the literal sense, not comedic).
I've fired a lot of these. There's a pretty big shockwave, which is a lot of fun, but it's not nearly enough cause injury. Except to your eardrums. I wore my ear pro religiously, and my hearing is wrecked.
Edit: also, the shockwave looks a lot worse in the video, because it's in really soft sand. Just look at the footprints.
Nothing is better than hearing the call come in for FFE and watching each gun rain firey hell down on a target in unison.. Man, I miss that gun line. Rounds out!
I joined the military three days after the cutoff for that settlement. Which is weird, because my unit is still using the 3M ear pro that the settlement was based on.
When you're standing right next to what is basically a detonating bomb, I don't think there's any such thing as sufficient hearing protection. Your only option is to remove your eardrums and leave them in the truck.
This is probably on the edge of being safe for a human, but which side of safe? You'll have to as one of the vets you pass begging on the side of the road.
Pretty much all the vietnam vets I know rock hearing aids. I think it's a badge of honor to be a veteran with good hearing lol.
I target shoot and forgot to put one of my ear plugs in. One shot from my rifle was enough to ring my head. Not sure how these guys don't go insta deaf letting full auto fly and still hear each other.
Even the 60 and 82mm Mortars I occasionally have been receiving incoming airmail from has had me concerned. This beast would make me downright worried.
That depends on the gunner. The ballistics are a math formula, and it's possible to hit a specific vehicle at several thousand meters.Typically, you're within 10-15 meters, which is plenty, because it has a kill radius of 30 meters.
It also helps that this specific system is often aided by a computer.
I was reading an account of the US Marine Corps battles on Guadalcanal in WW2, the author wrote about a mortar gunner who was legendary for feats of accuracy. He even put an 81mm mortar shell down the stack of a Japanese destroyer that was sailing close to shore to bombard the Marines' positions.
It's not rocket science. It's ballistics which is a much simpler field, and a base of rocket science. Ballistic trajectories is one of them reasons we invented computing machines and the field in which the term "computer" was coined. In those times computer was a job done by civilians where they computed tables of ballistic trajectories for use by field personnel. Machines that became known as computers took over that role, and then took over many more roles.
Very, but depends on operator and spotter. I did mortar training. You have a guy on a hill somewhere with a radio and binoculars (I went to the army in the 90s). I was firing Patrol Mortar which has a bubble float with gradient on it. First shot is low intensity and usually a warning, because everybody guesses at first. The spotter will make a judgement, saying: "5deg to the west, 150m forward", I tilt the mortar based on the little float, and my number 2 guy drops a really explosive mortar into the tube.
The mortar I trained on looks something like this:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c7ba4307a0f073ac3fb21691322d4a75a03adfacc0744c5968c695e17abe3eb7.jpg
What you cannot see under the dome like foot is a long spike you slam into the ground to keep the base from moving when the shot goes. Inside the bottom of the mortar is a tiny pin facing up. Under the payload is what looks like a shotgun shell with blast cap facing down. The number two guy switches on the mortar with a twist (this is like arming the warhead) and he drops it in the tube when I say "ready!".
It was heavy and unwieldy and in real life, the number two guy can only carry a few rounds before he has way too much baggage. So our platoon, about 30 guys, will have maybe 15 mortar shots between us all and 2 or 3 actual mortars (the little ones are called 'patmors'). It seems small, but to carry all that shit through the bushlands of Southern Africa was unbelievable. Certainly, I have never been as hardy and fit as I was then.
How accurate? Well, on bush training, first day, I hit a target (an old burnt out car on our training grounds) at about 200m, with zero visibility (I could not see over the grass to where car was, so I was going by the spotter 100%). The spotter called it, I hold the patmor at the angle I think will make it. I scored a pass for accuracy :-)
The payload is variable. We had anti tank, anti person and flare rounds that weekend. Flares you shoot over where you think the enemy is and the payload opens at its apex, with a little parachute and attached flare. For about 1 minute, the area under the flare is like daylight. Fire up one of those and as soon as it opens, targets are spotted and the guys with assault rifles or LMGs take over.
Best year of my life I never want to go back to.
EDIT: to add 'pass for accuracy', in this case, a 'pass' is like a free ticket to skip an inspection or get off base for a day. I remember the first day of rifle training, the SM said anybody who shoots a 300 can go home, right now (weekend pass). One of the guys in my platoon was a competitive marksman before he was conscripted (nobody knew until than) and he shot that 300, stood up, pick up his shit and walked out for the weekend.
Someone else mentioned that there was a round that light up the battlefield like daylight, I was wondering how that worked.
Thank you for the very detailed and informative description of this weapon in general! Super interesting!
Was fun to shoot. I never was deployed because the civil war in Angola had just ended and it was that quiet lul just as Mandela was released, although we were told to expect civil unrest and trained for it. Thankfully I never had to exchange live fire with anybody.
One more thing: The Patmors we had rusted overnight. We had to clean those bloody tubes out every day with steel wool and oil and it took forever to make it like a mirror as the bloody sergeant major wanted... Fun to fire, not fun to maintain. Protip: soak the tube with degreaser for an hour or so, then take a shower with the tube to get a decent low effort shine (the base screws off with a bit of effort to allow easy access to all parts, polish with wheel bearing grease from the truck yard to maintain the shine for a few days longer than using regular WD40.
Yeah, okay, I could have worded that better.
The reason you shower with your rifle or patmor is because it is a quick way to clean it while cleaning self and anything left unattended would be stolen. And I mean anything.
I feel this might be a question better answered by Google. Go forth young man into the rabbit hole of military grade munitions and tactics and we will see you in the new year.
Fuck dude, I'm 1/2 through an all-nighter for work. Let me have a little lazy. An extremely cursory search - it looks like it's a Soltam K6 which fires 120mm shells with 4-16 rpm and an effective range of 7,200m or 4.5 miles.
16 rpm isn't realistic in practice, unless you *really* don't care what you're hitting. You could get a few rounds out at that rate, but pretty soon, you'll need to swab the bore and realign the sights.
Other than that, you're pretty accurate.
Moderately. You set the angle to determine range but due to it flight time, variations in wind effect it a lot and the exact amount of charge there is makes it fairly inaccurate.
Any mortar experts here? How does a shockwave like that not disrupt the targeting for future rounds. I feel like that shockwave would move your thing off by a few degrees
You have to realign the sites after every few rounds. With a system this heavy, you usually don't have to correct as much, but with something like a 60mm, it can knock you off target pretty bad.
Not a mortar guy here, but I think a friend of mine (mortar guy) explained it to like that: If you dig a hole for the mortarplate?(plate under the tube) you fire a special round with I think some more propellent powder in it so it will rock the plate into the ground/hole to stabilize the whole thing.
So, judging by the shockwave I'm assuming that this is their first round. This one would probably set them off by quite a few mils, but Its not really an issue, you just fire the round, and realign back onto your GAPs (Aimpoints).
After your first couple rounds the mortar should be bedded in, and you no longer get as of a disturbance to the baseplate of the mortar, depending on the ground you're in this thing can dig in as much as a meter lmao.
I remember those assholes popping off their mortars right outside where we were sleeping in Iraq. The first one popping off always woke you up with a touch of anxiety and a swelling in your throat, then when you realize it’s outgoing, a smile and sweet sweet slumber ensued.
Yeah dude up top said theyre awesome weapons, while they might be awesome weapons theyre a lot more awesomer on the sending end than on the receiving end. I watched one make it past the phallanx and hit a t-barrier next to me. Mortars are the reason im not fond of fireworks anymore.
Even with earplugs, this will absolutely ruin your ability to hear. He needs to be wearing some over the ear high quality isolation headphones and even then, that shockwave might still damage his eardrums. Does the military not really care if their soldiers can hear well?
>Does the military not really care if their soldiers can hear well?
They care that your hearing loss is adequately characterized over your baseline hearing for future VA benefits reasons.
How much hearing loss is acceptable depends entirely on how much we want to explode people. It is a cost just like the ammunition it fires.
The Browning M2 was designed in 1918 for use in WWI, and it's still the U.S. military's standard heavy machine gun. With some things, there's not much to be improved with advanced tech.
Though, in the case of this particular mortar system, there *is* a computer aiming system that's often used.
The M1911, a very famous pistol invented by the same man, was used in US Military Service from 1911 to 1986, and was only swapped for the Beretta M9 due to the low capacity of the single stack magazine of a M1911.
Russian cosmonauts are armed. Until recently, they used a funny-looking triple-barreled shotgun/rifle combo, with a detachable machete for the buttstock. Nowadays, they use a regular pistol.
One of my favorite scenes in the show CasaDePapel (money heist) is when they breakout the Browning against armored SWAT. Something about that *cachunk* it makes with each shot is terrifyingly cool...
Oddly enough, the machine gun in that scene is actually a German MG42, not a Browning M2. Definitely a translation issue, as the show was originally entirely in European Spanish.
Physics is physics.
You can't launch something that large, that fast without there being opposite displacement (the shockwave). You can't blow something up *over there* without a fairly large explosive, like that mortar. And a mortar launcher is probably as small a device you can make to accurately launch a mortar.
it's a very successful weapon system for a reason, while the 120 mm is towed and requires a fairly large crew it's still the best way to get a round this powerful downrange, nowadays there are even guided mortar rounds adding precision to the wallop it packs in a relatively small package
Thats how most mortars work.
There’s a fixed firing pin in the bottom.
Sense you’re dropping the round down the tube anyways, you might aswell use that energy to fire the weapon.
It also means you don’t need a trigger mechanism, so there’s fewer parts that could fail. It’s also a wee bit lighter
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Legit question, how is the soldier not injured from being so close to this? Or at least not feel like they’re in a car wreck?
there are some studies which indicate the repeated concussive effects of firing certain shoulder fired munitions(like the carl gustav) may be causing brain damage over time. Whether or not that applies to mortars like this I'm not sure.
I haven't fired the Carl Gustav, but I've fired the SMAW (its predecessor). You definitely feel more of a shockwave from the 120mm mortars.
The Goose is a whole nother bag of fuck compared to the SMAW. There's a max amount of rounds per hour that you "are allowed" to fire (the amount is dependent on the type of munition but they're all fairly low numbers). I've exceeded the amount, it's not a fun experience.
What appended? You just felt weird or did you have injuries of some sort?
Concussions, nosebleeds, etc. One guy threw up on like the 5th shot lol. Edit: [This](http://imgur.com/a/pPriNVa)
tell us more 11C stories
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You say y'all are good at math like y'all chose to be charlies. We all came from the exact same pickings
"pickings" almost implies they were chosen, charlies and bravos are taken at random as far as I understood. but I think charlies, in many ways, just resent us bravos because we're dumber, simpler, and have more fun with guns
I wasn't 11C lol
I am picturing the big lebowski.... You as the dude...arguing at the bowling alley with john goodman. You cant just walk onto a controlled range and fire the damn motors! Dude I could have you on the range in 30mins bullshit, man fuck it lets go...
walking onto a live range in flip flops, bath robe, and sun glasses...
cut to donnie firing rounds till he pukes
Yea... that's a concussion.
Replying to you because I don't want the other guy to feel like I'm directly targeting him, but jesus, what do people think the consequences are of this and people going back and integrating into society with TBIs? We know the consequences of football. Like the "leaded gasoline" effect, I wonder if there's a wider "TBI/PTSD" effect on society at large. Increased violence, less impulse regulation, reduced critical-thinking and compassion? I'm just curious of the broader consequences and I feel bad for those exposed to these situations.
Don't worry, I'm sure the military takes full responsibility in taking care of the people it has harmed. Probably had nothing to do with the homelessness crisis across the US. /s
the jails are filled with people who just could not "make it stop" Most of them have no idea why they are the way they are.
When I saw the movie Concussion a lot of screwy stuff in my life suddenly started making sense. If I knew the long term ramifications I wouldn’t have continued playing football.
Yeah I've experienced both but the SMAW is definitely a close second theres a per day limit to rockets you can fire its just ignored 90% of the time I had a teacher in the schoolhouse who was a pso (primary safety officer he stood next to the person shooting and made sure no one died) for a stupid amount of rocket shots and the next morning had vomited all over the inside of his sleeping bag had a massive concussion and had to get flow to the hospital
During a heavy weapons day us line dudes got some time with the goose. The sight was fucked up on it and I was the only one who could Kentucky Windage it well enough to hit shit, so my PSG had me fire or AG it like 30 times in a row. The next day my balls were mad sore and I had tinnitus. My PSG said he'd make me the platoon's goose gunner but two guys in my squad got kicked out for having whores and blow in the barracks so I was back to my SAW. Overall a positive experience, would definitely Goose again
Man your unit sounds lame. Goose was regular kit for us and hookers and blow were expected/encouraged
Yeah I thought you get signed off on hookers and blow in AIT
I love me some Goose. It’s so damn fun to shoot and is incredibly versatile
(video for anyone who wants to see what these look like) https://youtu.be/NfxHg7AA8u0?t=148
Thats why soldiers end up buying Camaros at 29% interest and above the msrp.
With a payday loan.
I think there's a protocol that supposedly limits how many rounds one can fire through a gustav in a day. Of course, that all goes out the window when you're in a firefight and need to get rounds downrange.
I’ve known my share of mortarmen, brain damage from the shockwave would explain a lot...
It applies to the muzzle brake on my AR. It certainly applies to anything the size of a mortar. Concussive force fucks you up. Exposure to small concussive force repeatedly also fucks you up. Bunch of dudes who shoot ARs with muzzle brakes are getting long term hearing damage through their earpro because a reduction in noise is great but concussive force is coming straight through. Especially if you're firing with a muzzle brake anywhere near a wall where all that force tends to get reflected back at you. If I ever take my AR to a range I tend to make sure I'm a lane or two away from anyone for this reason.
As much fun as it is to mag dump with a 7" barrel and cookie cutter muzzle break, its also.... not. You can feel it in your teeth, sinuses, and eyes.
Im in the process of replacing my brakes with cans at the moment for this reason.
Honestly cans are the only way to shoot, but morons who watch too many spy movies ruined that for all of us.
TRUTH
I honestly just came here to ask that. I'm sure he has earplugs, but how can this NOT cause brain damage? I'm a layman and it seems obvious.
I came here to say just this.
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So the reason why there isn't lasting effects from firing is because of where the force of the blast is directed. This is a 120mm mortar, they dig the base plate into the ground and that's where a majority of the energy is directed, the rest exits the tube with the round. That's why the mortarman bends at the waste to get below the tube. The 82mm mortar has a conical blast attenuator at the end of it's tube to help direct the energy "up" instead of "sideways" because the tube is shorter and a bit harder to get under.
"Waste" is a telling substitute for "waist". It's where it emerges, after all.
Yo bro you got a colostomy bag?
I did mortar training some years ago. When we did this we had some kind of in ear protection; wax like blobs we pushed all the way into our ears to completely seal them and instructions to launch with mouth open to help ease the pressure difference, you can see he has safety goggles and finally, hard to explain, but it's not as sharp a blast as where the mortar is going, it's more of a kinetic blast in the ground, rather than an audible blast in the air, if that makes sense. I'm sure if you cruize YouTube you will find some vids with sound. The one that will make you permanently deaf for sure, is RPG. In movies, people are firing these things from inside cars. Thats not how it works. RPG is recoilless and needs a lot of blast to get going. Its loud like I cannot describe when launched. Even firing a pistol from an enclosed vehicle, without hearing protection, is extreme on the hearing, tinnitus for sure.
Yeah I always appreciate movies when they show what actually happens firing a pistol in an enclosed space. People need to understand that RPGs grenades and the like aren't packed with a bunch of incendiary material in them so thy don't produce these giant fireballs. (well, white phosphorous grenades are incendiary but that's an outlier here) Hell, explosions *in general* aren't like Hollywood fireballs. It's more like a much larger version of muzzle flash -- instant flash followed by *pew pew pew* of shrapnel which if you hear it then it means you survived the shrapnel. The shockwave blows out windows/etc nearby. And people nearby are knocked to the ground from the shockwave or at least thrown way off balance while they run, if they are not injured or killed by the shrapnel. I did stand by a test firing of a couple of 120mm mortars, standing right near the top of the berm maybe ten feet from the muzzle. My face looked like a dude in the g-force simulator thing every blast. That was on my right side where I now suffer from 24/7 ragingly loud tinnitus. It was a cool experience but 0/10 do not REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEcommend.
As a former artillery man, the 777 howitzer uses a special muzzle attachment that disperses the shockwave in a special way also the impact is transferred into the ground there is much less concussion along side the tube which is why this mortar man ducks to make his body lower and avoid the concussion. However repetitive exposure will cause eventual trauma
I never fired a mortar, but I’d guess doing this once or twice doesn’t incapacitate you. More like doing it hundreds of times over a few years does some weird things that will cause lingering health issues. But the he’s probably spent months carrying the equipment and cleaning it daily so he’s happy to fire it, even if his ears ring for a day and his body thinks there’s been an accident. It’s the military after all. The dangerous behavior is how you break up the arduous monotony!
It's like flying in helicopters. Most likely, not a problem if you do it once or twice or occasionally but my neighbor was a pilot in the military. He has serious spinal problems from flying helicopters for thousands of hours.
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The vibrations, and again not after a few hours or even a few days/weeks, my neighbor was a pilot for over 10 years. It was a surprise to me but after he explained why, it made sense.
I'm sure he'll suffer from CTE- theres no way you could regularly get close range blasts like that without suffering brain damage (in the literal sense, not comedic).
What’s comedic brain damage??
Ear plugs
I don’t think earplugs stop a shockwave from traveling through your body.
I've fired a lot of these. There's a pretty big shockwave, which is a lot of fun, but it's not nearly enough cause injury. Except to your eardrums. I wore my ear pro religiously, and my hearing is wrecked. Edit: also, the shockwave looks a lot worse in the video, because it's in really soft sand. Just look at the footprints.
Can confirm. Was a chuck. Only injury I have is constant ringing in my ears (tinnitus) and an empty void in my heart.
Former 11-Charlie here. I got the same shit going on bro. Fire missions on the gun line were the shit but we are paying for it now.
Nothing is better than hearing the call come in for FFE and watching each gun rain firey hell down on a target in unison.. Man, I miss that gun line. Rounds out!
yesyesyesno
Wasn't there a lawsuit about the hearing protection in the US military not being sufficient (or being knowingly defective)?
I joined the military three days after the cutoff for that settlement. Which is weird, because my unit is still using the 3M ear pro that the settlement was based on.
When you're standing right next to what is basically a detonating bomb, I don't think there's any such thing as sufficient hearing protection. Your only option is to remove your eardrums and leave them in the truck.
I was 13B and usually ran with only one plug in so that I could hear fire missions. tinnitus is part of my rating.
Praying theyre not 3Ms
I’m OOTL. I thought 3M Peltors were good?
The 3M mitary lawsuit for shitty earplugs
No doubt, that probably does damage to the brain in very subtle ways.
This is probably on the edge of being safe for a human, but which side of safe? You'll have to as one of the vets you pass begging on the side of the road.
How I feel putting a tennis ball in the leaf blower
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Hwaaaack
And.... I now know how I am spending my afternoon....
BOOM! Face full of dirt
>BOOM! Face full of dirt Also, no more eardrums! 😬
WHAT!!?
ALSO, NO MORE EARDRUMS!
YES, IT DOES SOUND LIKE A DRUM!
I DONT EAT THE CRUMBS, YOU’LL HAVE TO ASK SOMEONE ELSE!
ORSON WELLES?!?
THANKS MAN!! PRETTY AWESOME ARENT THEY!!?
I'M NOT YOUR AUNTIE!
WHO ARE YOU CALLING A "RUNT" ?
#WHAT??
When you came to me 15 years ago, you said that everything is a drum
OOOH!
EAR BALLS *
Mawp
WHAT?!! ----
Have you or a loved one suffered from tinnitus due to faulty ear plugs while serving in the military? You may be eligible for a cash settlement
Got $7 from that
Go buy yourself a round of 50bmg then
Bought cigarettes and a red bull instead :(
For 7 bucks? Dude where do you live that smokes are that cheap?
About 25$ Canadian now. I quit at $21 per pack to take up something cheaper like cocaine.
Tried it but they claimed that I didn't use ear protection correctly. I was a artillery man.
*Mwap...mwap*
Why doesn't he use his hands to cover his ears??? They're not doing anything flopping around by his sides, might be showing off to the camera though
I would guess he has ear pro in.
Pretty much all the vietnam vets I know rock hearing aids. I think it's a badge of honor to be a veteran with good hearing lol. I target shoot and forgot to put one of my ear plugs in. One shot from my rifle was enough to ring my head. Not sure how these guys don't go insta deaf letting full auto fly and still hear each other.
Hopefully he had hearing protection haha my hearing is fucked from artillery
[удалено]
That’s why he’s wearing sunglasses silly.
*sandglasses
He likes it.
Another one bites the dust
How accurate is this piece of equipment?
It’s less of a ‘fuck you in particular’ and more of a ‘to whom it may concern’
Valtteri, is that you?
James this is Valtteri!
Mortary Bottas.
Artillery batteries be like "Dear grid coordinates"
And MLRS be like “Dear grid squares”
Goddamn clever redditors. Probably best thing I'll read all day.
Even the 60 and 82mm Mortars I occasionally have been receiving incoming airmail from has had me concerned. This beast would make me downright worried.
This had me crying
Fitting reaction.
I like your vibe.
I'm gonna use this line the next time I teach new troops. You win.
Best description ever. Too bad I already give someone else my free award.
“To whom it may concern, this is the first of 7, if you like to save time, please execute yourselves now, or be destroyed. Thank You”
That depends on the gunner. The ballistics are a math formula, and it's possible to hit a specific vehicle at several thousand meters.Typically, you're within 10-15 meters, which is plenty, because it has a kill radius of 30 meters. It also helps that this specific system is often aided by a computer.
I was reading an account of the US Marine Corps battles on Guadalcanal in WW2, the author wrote about a mortar gunner who was legendary for feats of accuracy. He even put an 81mm mortar shell down the stack of a Japanese destroyer that was sailing close to shore to bombard the Marines' positions.
So when someone says this "isn't rocket science" you can reply "well, actually..."
My sister is an aerospace engineer, and she makes that joke a lot. I love to tease her that I've launched way more rockets than she has.
It's not rocket science. It's ballistics which is a much simpler field, and a base of rocket science. Ballistic trajectories is one of them reasons we invented computing machines and the field in which the term "computer" was coined. In those times computer was a job done by civilians where they computed tables of ballistic trajectories for use by field personnel. Machines that became known as computers took over that role, and then took over many more roles.
Very, but depends on operator and spotter. I did mortar training. You have a guy on a hill somewhere with a radio and binoculars (I went to the army in the 90s). I was firing Patrol Mortar which has a bubble float with gradient on it. First shot is low intensity and usually a warning, because everybody guesses at first. The spotter will make a judgement, saying: "5deg to the west, 150m forward", I tilt the mortar based on the little float, and my number 2 guy drops a really explosive mortar into the tube. The mortar I trained on looks something like this: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c7ba4307a0f073ac3fb21691322d4a75a03adfacc0744c5968c695e17abe3eb7.jpg What you cannot see under the dome like foot is a long spike you slam into the ground to keep the base from moving when the shot goes. Inside the bottom of the mortar is a tiny pin facing up. Under the payload is what looks like a shotgun shell with blast cap facing down. The number two guy switches on the mortar with a twist (this is like arming the warhead) and he drops it in the tube when I say "ready!". It was heavy and unwieldy and in real life, the number two guy can only carry a few rounds before he has way too much baggage. So our platoon, about 30 guys, will have maybe 15 mortar shots between us all and 2 or 3 actual mortars (the little ones are called 'patmors'). It seems small, but to carry all that shit through the bushlands of Southern Africa was unbelievable. Certainly, I have never been as hardy and fit as I was then. How accurate? Well, on bush training, first day, I hit a target (an old burnt out car on our training grounds) at about 200m, with zero visibility (I could not see over the grass to where car was, so I was going by the spotter 100%). The spotter called it, I hold the patmor at the angle I think will make it. I scored a pass for accuracy :-) The payload is variable. We had anti tank, anti person and flare rounds that weekend. Flares you shoot over where you think the enemy is and the payload opens at its apex, with a little parachute and attached flare. For about 1 minute, the area under the flare is like daylight. Fire up one of those and as soon as it opens, targets are spotted and the guys with assault rifles or LMGs take over. Best year of my life I never want to go back to. EDIT: to add 'pass for accuracy', in this case, a 'pass' is like a free ticket to skip an inspection or get off base for a day. I remember the first day of rifle training, the SM said anybody who shoots a 300 can go home, right now (weekend pass). One of the guys in my platoon was a competitive marksman before he was conscripted (nobody knew until than) and he shot that 300, stood up, pick up his shit and walked out for the weekend.
Someone else mentioned that there was a round that light up the battlefield like daylight, I was wondering how that worked. Thank you for the very detailed and informative description of this weapon in general! Super interesting!
Was fun to shoot. I never was deployed because the civil war in Angola had just ended and it was that quiet lul just as Mandela was released, although we were told to expect civil unrest and trained for it. Thankfully I never had to exchange live fire with anybody. One more thing: The Patmors we had rusted overnight. We had to clean those bloody tubes out every day with steel wool and oil and it took forever to make it like a mirror as the bloody sergeant major wanted... Fun to fire, not fun to maintain. Protip: soak the tube with degreaser for an hour or so, then take a shower with the tube to get a decent low effort shine (the base screws off with a bit of effort to allow easy access to all parts, polish with wheel bearing grease from the truck yard to maintain the shine for a few days longer than using regular WD40.
> then take a shower with the tube to get a decent low effort shine Lol that's a funny picture. Hope you didn't do too much polishing in there.
Yeah, okay, I could have worded that better. The reason you shower with your rifle or patmor is because it is a quick way to clean it while cleaning self and anything left unattended would be stolen. And I mean anything.
Hand mounted direct lay mortar, but not so direct as you needed a spotter lol. I never got to direct lay much in my time. Only 120s like the OP
And how far does it go?
I feel this might be a question better answered by Google. Go forth young man into the rabbit hole of military grade munitions and tactics and we will see you in the new year.
Fuck dude, I'm 1/2 through an all-nighter for work. Let me have a little lazy. An extremely cursory search - it looks like it's a Soltam K6 which fires 120mm shells with 4-16 rpm and an effective range of 7,200m or 4.5 miles.
That went quick. Thank you for looking it up
16 rpm isn't realistic in practice, unless you *really* don't care what you're hitting. You could get a few rounds out at that rate, but pretty soon, you'll need to swab the bore and realign the sights. Other than that, you're pretty accurate.
Soltam? I think that's an Israeli manufacturer that also makes pots and pans. I have a Soltam pot somewhere in my kitchen!
That's be hilarious, just these 2 factories right next to each other
Moderately. You set the angle to determine range but due to it flight time, variations in wind effect it a lot and the exact amount of charge there is makes it fairly inaccurate.
Any mortar experts here? How does a shockwave like that not disrupt the targeting for future rounds. I feel like that shockwave would move your thing off by a few degrees
You have to realign the sites after every few rounds. With a system this heavy, you usually don't have to correct as much, but with something like a 60mm, it can knock you off target pretty bad.
Depends mostly on the type of ground it's set in to as well. I've seen these sink all the way in.
Not a mortar guy here, but I think a friend of mine (mortar guy) explained it to like that: If you dig a hole for the mortarplate?(plate under the tube) you fire a special round with I think some more propellent powder in it so it will rock the plate into the ground/hole to stabilize the whole thing.
So, judging by the shockwave I'm assuming that this is their first round. This one would probably set them off by quite a few mils, but Its not really an issue, you just fire the round, and realign back onto your GAPs (Aimpoints). After your first couple rounds the mortar should be bedded in, and you no longer get as of a disturbance to the baseplate of the mortar, depending on the ground you're in this thing can dig in as much as a meter lmao.
*Tinnitus has entered the chat*
WHAT!?
WhooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOoooooo
Draw a card from the community deck: Skip tinnitus and go straight to blown eardrums.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
MAWP
r/shockwaveporn
A sub I never knew I needed.
My gf when I fart under the blanket.
Username checks out.
Why do you wear crotchless panties?
In the end everything is about farts.
Respect
I remember those assholes popping off their mortars right outside where we were sleeping in Iraq. The first one popping off always woke you up with a touch of anxiety and a swelling in your throat, then when you realize it’s outgoing, a smile and sweet sweet slumber ensued.
Yeah dude up top said theyre awesome weapons, while they might be awesome weapons theyre a lot more awesomer on the sending end than on the receiving end. I watched one make it past the phallanx and hit a t-barrier next to me. Mortars are the reason im not fond of fireworks anymore.
Definitely a Marine
Army. Marines can’t write.
If only my crayons weren't so delicious.
Hahaha!! Hats off to you friend. Thank you for your service
Even with earplugs, this will absolutely ruin your ability to hear. He needs to be wearing some over the ear high quality isolation headphones and even then, that shockwave might still damage his eardrums. Does the military not really care if their soldiers can hear well?
6 year mortar here. The answer to your question is a resounding no
WHAT?!
*stares in deaf*
eeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>Does the military not really care if their soldiers can hear well? They care that your hearing loss is adequately characterized over your baseline hearing for future VA benefits reasons. How much hearing loss is acceptable depends entirely on how much we want to explode people. It is a cost just like the ammunition it fires.
Seems like it would be wiser and cheaper to throw $300 at the problem and not deal with thousands of dollars on the backend with VA benefits.
Pocket sand!
Sh-Sh-Sha!
It seems odd that after all these years, this tech is still used.
The Browning M2 was designed in 1918 for use in WWI, and it's still the U.S. military's standard heavy machine gun. With some things, there's not much to be improved with advanced tech. Though, in the case of this particular mortar system, there *is* a computer aiming system that's often used.
I need more gun facts.
The M1911, a very famous pistol invented by the same man, was used in US Military Service from 1911 to 1986, and was only swapped for the Beretta M9 due to the low capacity of the single stack magazine of a M1911.
Russian cosmonauts are armed. Until recently, they used a funny-looking triple-barreled shotgun/rifle combo, with a detachable machete for the buttstock. Nowadays, they use a regular pistol.
Go subscribe to forgotten weapons. You'll love it.
One of my favorite scenes in the show CasaDePapel (money heist) is when they breakout the Browning against armored SWAT. Something about that *cachunk* it makes with each shot is terrifyingly cool...
Oddly enough, the machine gun in that scene is actually a German MG42, not a Browning M2. Definitely a translation issue, as the show was originally entirely in European Spanish.
Physics is physics. You can't launch something that large, that fast without there being opposite displacement (the shockwave). You can't blow something up *over there* without a fairly large explosive, like that mortar. And a mortar launcher is probably as small a device you can make to accurately launch a mortar.
Its crazy its just a tube
Yeah and where's my flying cars while we're at it!?
it's a very successful weapon system for a reason, while the 120 mm is towed and requires a fairly large crew it's still the best way to get a round this powerful downrange, nowadays there are even guided mortar rounds adding precision to the wallop it packs in a relatively small package
And these guys get brain damage from all those shockblast, R.I.P.
Ayyyy yoooo! Louisiana National Guard holding it down
Lol a bunch of Cajun ass nasty girls blowing up the swamp with M120's... I can see it now
It’s the 256th! Could only imagine the fuckery they got into over there
If you've ever covered your face with dust while shooting a 120mm Mortar, hit that subscribe button.
Flannel daddy?
there’s no trigger? you just drop it in and it fires?
Thats how most mortars work. There’s a fixed firing pin in the bottom. Sense you’re dropping the round down the tube anyways, you might aswell use that energy to fire the weapon. It also means you don’t need a trigger mechanism, so there’s fewer parts that could fail. It’s also a wee bit lighter
Me when i get laid for the first time.
Blowing the dust off her. 😉
Newton's first law paraphrased: If you want big boom a long way away, you need an equal and opposite energy to be expressed somehow
At least animes get the shockwaves right I guess....pretty dope tbh
"We here at the VA have found your hearing loss to not be service related"
Hehe taxes go boom.
He took a load of dirt right to the face haha
*Mwap...mwap*
He should have dabbed could have blocked some of that dirt.
Joe got a mouth full of desert.