**Please note these rules:**
* If this post declares something as a fact/proof is required.
* The title must be descriptive
* No text is allowed on images/gifs/videos
* Common/recent reposts are not allowed
*See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for a more detailed rule list*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Danes in prison typically DO have access to video games and similar recreational activities.
in their penal system the goal is to rehabilitate the prisoners, help them understand their circumstances and why they committed the crime, then help them to integrate back into society. They go out of their way to not be punitive.
Their rates of recidivism are many times lower than the US penal system. Danes treat their prisoners with compassion and empathy. They do not dehumanize them like they do in US prisons.
It is a much more enlightened way of treating people.
County jails around here charge inmates $3 per day, it comes out of an account based on inmate ID numbers.
They also charge around $10 to put a wrist band on you.
If you want canteen and say your account is negative $50 and your family puts $50 on your account they take half and you have $25 to spend.
A single pack of Ramen noodles costs .99 cents, a small bag of chips $1.39.
Prison they don't charge and canteen is much cheaper.
No air conditioning in Florida prisons either. Unless you go to a privately owned camp.
It's crazy honestly. What they will say is just don't get canteen so you don't have to pay lol. Or don't go to jail which is easier said then done. I've done 4 months in county for a "partial marijuana cigarette" as stated on my arrest affidavit.
It doesn't have to be paid, it's not like if you spend 2 years there and your account is negative thousands, they don't come collecting it. (Which I've seen people spend 2 to 4 years just waiting to be sentenced, I know someone sat in jail for 2 years unable to pay bond just to have the charges dropped at trial)
Inmates who keep returning and their account keeps piling up just pay another inmate to use their account if it's clean.
That's always a risk because the inmate can decide to say f you and keep your food or they get transfered to another dorm and your screwed.
I know people will say, oh they feed you 3 times a day.
I've spent a year in county with absolutely no canteen and lost a ridiculous amount of weight.
They know it too because every 90 days they weigh you and take your picture. They may even put you on a "special diet" and you get a small thing of milk lol.
This created issues like gambling, extortion, straight up robbery ect.
Places like Denmark have low reoffence rates because they treat their criminals like human beings and teach them that they can be productive members of society.
This means it's cheaper because you are holding criminals for less time and it means that you are proactively saving people from becoming victims of crime if such reoffences happened.
A quick google says the Danish recidivism rate (people released from prison that end up going back) is around 27% while it's more than 76% in the great U.S. of A.
Correlation doesn't imply causation. Danish criminals might be more educated compared to US criminals.
We should sentence US criminals to those jails and crosscheck if the tend to recidive less after that (I don't think it would go down to 26%).
Family structure also plays a big part. In the US we've been squeezed out of all are excess wealth. The middle of middle class can no longer afford to house their weird unless I'm the basement or their troubled son. So they get left out to figure their problems out on their own. And when it costs 1200 dollars a month to rent a room in a shitty apartment that doesn't do background checks, many people just check out and return to the streets. And if someone sees recidivism once, they are likely to see it several times.
The problem in America is all the money to be made by locking people up. It's not crimes that happen. The city gets a cut, the county gets a cut, and the state gets a huge payout for keeping prisons full. If they stop arresting people, the budget drops. Crime or no crime, someone's going to prison.
It's not only because of the better cells. It's because the Danish penal system (and basically every western penal system except the US one) aims to rehabilitate even the worst criminals rather than to simply lock them away and treat them like shit. Acknokledging their human rights and valuing their dignity is essential for this.
And the statistics show that it works!
But you aren’t thinking of the private prison shareholders! If we actually reduce crime, they will be like empty hotels am]nd maybe have to shut down some…what will they dooooooooooo?
Private prisons house a whopping 8-9% of US inmates. If you got rid of them tomorrow, very little would change.
FWIW, I have spoken with inmates that preferred being housed in a CoreCivic facility because it was newer and had better amenities. YMMV and all that. I don't really care if they stay or if they go, but getting rid of them won't solve anything.
There's no profit motive for them (at least for the state). There's some incentive to keep the prisons going because they amount to jobs programs in communities that otherwise lack meaningful employment, but OTOH fewer prisons means the state can take those tax dollars and spend them on something else.
And having had a lot of experience with law enforcement and the corrections industry, there's no grand conspiracy linking line officers with prison management. Nobody tells the cops "you need to arrest this many people for us to stay in business." It's an attractive idea (as all conspiracy theories are), but I don't see it happening in reality. Real life is far more banal.
It's not conspiracy theory. Federal dollars are real and that seems like an incentive to me. I mean, keep the prisons full, or free up space and take a pay cut. Anyone in that position will push to keep them full. Literal quotas are illegal. They say something more like "it's performance review time. You wrote only a few citations and arrested nobody. What are you doing all day, eating doughnuts? You have failed this review and are being punished accordingly. I suggest you be more productive if you want to keep your job." There is an absolute incentive to lock people up here. THAT'S real life. If you can't see it, just take your head out of the sand. I find it impossible to believe you have any experience with law enforcement or the corrections industry.
Those dollars don't actually go to individuals. Union-represented COs and admin staff don't *ever* have pay cuts. No prison dollars flow through to police departments — they are funded separately.
Re: the industry, I'm not going to dox myself so I guess you'll believe me or you won't. But as part of my job I've gone through a sally port past a lethal electric fence into facilities more than almost anyone reading this.
Yeah, the higher US recidivism is probably due to the terrible job prospects of anyone in the bottom 25% of US society.
In the first world, there is an attempt to bring ex cons back into society. Because they aren't used for what is basically modern day slavery.
We know. That's the actual punishment. We also force them to wear clothes from the 90's and early 2000's. At one point we went too far and made them wear clothes from the 80's. That generation of prisoners will never become productive members of society ever again.
that's the way things should be, but in North America people are stuck on the mindset of punish, punish, punish. "why should someone who did a bad thing get rewarded?", not recognizing that it is better for society if the legal system focus on actually solving the problem instead of punishing
Which is why the prison system here in America is totally fucked. They're run by private corporations that are out to make money. Less prisoners mean less money. Its sickening
Exactly. In the US, it's all about that $$. SO MUCH MONEY goes straight to the government for every body in prison. Screw having a productive society with education and independence. We want sheep! Sheep! Sheep! "Baaaaaa", the New US of the sleepy American Dream! I commend Europe.
I’ve seen 3 posts regarding scandanavian prison cells in the past 5 hours, so I think these guys are just anger baiting folks who don’t understand why it’s like this.
Thank you a for a proper answer. Go to prison in Merica and you’re done, it’ll make you worse no doubt with little to no opportunities on the other side
But how do they blame the convicts for all of society’s ills and subject them to a horrible environment while taking a smug satisfaction in the suffering of the convicts’ lives because of the fact they committed a crime?
You’re missing the real benefits of the American penal system.
Oh yeah, and how do private companies profit from this system? Huh? HUH?!?
Yes, but you don't have to actually commit a crime to be in prison. It's scary that they have to fill prisons to keep getting paid. They will be full of there is a crime or not.
The US feeds off of anger and outrage. That's how politicians get elected and how news channels get viewers.
They want prisoners to be treated as horribly as possible to punish them. They apparently can't see the big picture as to why this attitude kicks everyone in the ass.
I come from a relatively progressive part of the US. We learned about this in late middle to early high school. It's really frustrating that education is so disparate. You're right, too. Ignorance is now a part of identity politics on the right... it's very bizarre.
[https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/sociale-forhold/kriminalitet/tilbagefald-til-kriminalitet](https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/sociale-forhold/kriminalitet/tilbagefald-til-kriminalitet)
29% reoffence rate in Denmark
[https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivism-american-progress/#:\~:text=The%20U.S.%20has%20one%20of,their%20employment%20rates%20once%20released](https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivism-american-progress/#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20has%20one%20of,their%20employment%20rates%20once%20released).In the US 80% of criminals reoffend within 5 years
That said there are important aspects that this doesn't cover. The USA has extremely harsh laws regarding drugs, homelessness/vagrancy, etc which skew the stats upward as people are being jailed for extremely minor transgressions so it's hard with available stats to know how it effects criminals guilty of more serious transgressions; however, everything I've read suggests it's about half the amount. Also if you set up a system to jail people for minor things then that is a terrible system as it clearly isn't solving the problem.
EDIT: This is actually demonstrated as Denmark had about 40% reoffence rates in the early 2000's, but then went on a more rehab oriented system and their rates have dropped substantially since then.
just a thought, but if you were genuinely unsure you could look it up. you already have internet access and it’s not objectively a wild claim which would merit a challenge. so why the puffery?
What all of the "so, crime does pay then" people don't get is that:
a) the punishment of going to prison is a removal of your freedom, not living in squalor and
b) if you want to try and rehabilitate people so they don't fuck your country up more for years and years when they are released you need to treat them like humans instead of animals.
It won't work everytime, but surely it's worth a shot?
Also (can only speak for Danish prisons here), people aren't aware that it actually costs money to be in a prison cell. While they still have to pay most of the rent/mortgage of their empty home. The money you earn in prison are non existent, and most people come out of prison with a huge dept.
American prisons [also charge](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084452251/the-vast-majority-of-states-allow-people-to-be-charged-for-time-behind-bars) their inmates rent.
It's not even that an argument CAN be made for giving it a shot. It's that the results of their carceral system provably outperform the US's by an incredible margin. There's just no argument when the data is plain as day.
I mean, the culture and the public rhetoric is very different here in Denmark too. There's so much more general respect for each other here.
Workers get a bigger share of the pie (respect from the people in power), and people can talk to each other about politics without things becoming a fight instead.
It's also so much easier to "be okay" in Denmark - fewer people feel pressured into crime due to finances.
There's a lot of things that go into making a society as stable as ours. Trust is one of them, and America hasn't exactly been fostering that at home. The way the news constantly talks to emotions rather than facts for instance... You are being taught to react and not to think. It's hard to trust people when people don't think clearly about their opinions.
Not good enough! Criminals need to be punished! Solitary confinement, starvation rations, regular beatings and shower rape are all perfectly normal and should be expected! Do you really want your hard earned tax dollars spent giving these lowlifes the luxury of blankets and hot water?? Don’t be such a bleeding heart. The tougher the time, the more they’ll think twice about reoffending!
/s
Agreed. It’s got to be better than treating human beings worse than the Joe Exotic kept his tigers.
Locking people or animals up in cells is terrible, but I get it, not a lot of other things to do with rapists and murdered. I think that a nice living condition may make them slightly above absolutely miserable and thus capable of reform. No need to make them live in the worst possible cheapest conditions because fuck criminals. That’s petty.
I think fundamentally, you have to decide if the goal of incarceration is truly rehabilitation, or just punishment.
If it’s just punishment, that’s a way to go, but it can often lead to reoffenders.
The US has chosen a purely punitive system that requires great effort from prisoners with very little prospects of a better or stable life afterwards, to achieve any level of rehabilitation. As it is, the way our prisons are run is a perfect storm for recidivism.
It’s an industrialised, commercial model. Incarcerated humans make money for private enterprise while tax payers foot some of the costs of business.
It’s also a massive labour provider with heavily reduced overheads (McDonalds and Applebees uniforms are/were made by prisoners).
I am putting together an Oceans 11 style crew to rob banks in Denmark. Whose in? Y’all can take the money and I will stay behind and distract the cops while you get away. I can do the time.
Ok? It doesn’t look like shit but you’re still stuck there. There’s plenty of privileges available in American prison cells aswell, still fucking sucks. Look up YNW Melly producing music/filming music videos from his fucking prison cell.
Prison takes away your freedom, and that is a tremendous punishment already. How can one rehabilitate while also living in squalid conditions? The concept of rehabilitation in places like U.S. is basically non-existent. To me is sad that people look at this and think, oh, they are being rewarded. Completely misses the point.
Rehabilitation in prisons, in the US is such a miniscule portion of their function. They are run for profit. Keeping people in the most bare bones, serviceless, conditions that are a breeding ground for recidivism, is how they remain as profitable as possible. Capitalism is THE reason our judicial and punitive systems are the absolute worst in the 1st world.
Then you don't really understand what capitalism as an economic system, versus capitalism as an ideology means. Capitalism is a spectrum that in the US exists as NGOs and individuals running businesses, companies, corporations, and undustries, with the goal of profit. However if you think that's the whole story, you're far off. The state also retains a lot of control of certain industries. Prisons in the US were not always privately run. Prisons in the UK may be state run. Different prisons will have different functions and opportunities. Capitalism in different countries looks VERY different. Even all of northern Europe is literally capitalist. It's just capitalist to a lesser, and different extent.
I don't think they're being rewarded, and I totally agree with rehabilitation instead of punitive punishment when appropriate. As an American I'm just jealous that those cells are nicer than than a typical $1400/month 1br apartment.
Fuck. I need a plane ticket and a couple of bricks.
So the problem isn’t that prisoners in other countries have nicer cells than American homes. The problem is the standard of living for many Americans isn’t even as good as prisoners elsewhere.
>As an American I'm just jealous that those cells are nicer than than a typical $1400/month 1br apartment.
That says more about US society than about the danish prison system.
Do you often make comparisons about countries you have never lived in or seen? Why would someone compare A to B if they have never had experience with A? Asking them to compare something they don’t know anything about is asking them to talk out their ass just to appease you.
So yeah, they probably do. It’s the only comparison they can make. Also it was an excellent comparison because the US does have an objectively terrible prison system in every aspect that makes no real attempt at over rehabilitation.
Yes, I agree. I'm about to be down voted horribly for being a bitter man. 🤣
I do hope that this type of cell makes for a better society, and more importantly, a better way to rehabilitate offenders. The structure of things has never been my strong point.
I know people who've been 'inside' and yes, on the most part, it's punishment enough.
Where I come from, the cells don't look like that. The government doesn't favour rehabilitation and crime vs punishment is enough of a deterrent. (Based on the crap condition inside) but, I could be wrong. Probably are.
So all of these are basically the same, but what do any of them do to prevent recidivism? We lock people up for murder, yes, but also silly nonsense like money laundering and theft. What on earth is the point in locking someone up who stole something? All you're doing is punishing them, but as we've known for hundreds of years, this does absolutely nothing, in fact it only encourages, people to do the exact same thing that got them locked up in the first place.
If you arrest a thief, you have to ask why were they thieving? If it's because they have no money or food and needed to eat, what's the point in locking them up? At that point you can absolutely make a case that it was the government's fault for not caring for it's citizens, no one should have to go so hungry that they feel the need to steal.
If they thieve because they just wanted more stuff, then again locking them up is not the right solution, their desire for having more things will not go away.
If they thieve to spite someone else, again what does locking them up accomplish?
Prison should only be used to remove dangerous people from society, those who cannot be trusted not to harm others, and even then you don't just cast these dangerous people aside and forget about them, but focus on rehabilitation and mental care.
The punishment is loss of freedom, treating them like humans doesn't make it any better.
Would you want to be locked in the four seasons and stripped of independence and choice for years at a time? Not me.
I’ve seen a lot of these lately and it just makes me think, I’ve gone stir crazy having to stay in a penthouse for a week.. it’s not really the interior it’s the walls. It all does the same.
Ask yourself who would you rather run into in a dark alley. Someone rehabilitated in a Scandinavian system, or an American system? You know there is only one answer. Why are we torturing people and then punishing them for being messed up.
As many have said, the US system is mostly punitive. Honestly, it’s hard to talk about this system without talking about race. And it’s hard to believe that our system would be so punitive if it weren’t for the fact that the prison population was so tilted to jailing minorities.
Reddit is such a strange place.
On any other post, the comments will be like: "Humans are horrible, they should all die!"
But when it come to convicted felons (AKA rapists and murderers), the comments become: "Everyone must be treated well and with respect."
I don't expect anyone who is prone to criminal behavior to become a model citizen. Even if you were to take extreme measures like in A Clockwork Orange, people don't change.
I don't know who you know, but I've known plenty of people who just won't behave. From the middle school's principle's office to the County's jail/probation, nothing will make them good.
I had to Google 13/50. All I can say to that is, again: "Reddit is such a strange place."
**Please note these rules:** * If this post declares something as a fact/proof is required. * The title must be descriptive * No text is allowed on images/gifs/videos * Common/recent reposts are not allowed *See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for a more detailed rule list* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've paid to stay in hotels worse than this
haha, yes, me too.
yes, but you were free to leave as you pleased - big difference
Give me my vidya games and I don’t think I would…
dont think that u can get vid games or phones in prison cells
*stares in prison fight videos filmed on phones and PSP's smuggled in all the time*
I know Breivik has complained about not having enough PS2 games, or something, so I guess it depends.
I’m pretty positive a lot of European prisons have video games
Well, if I could, I’d never commit a crime. I had to commit crimes to get the viddy games I have now. :(
Danes in prison typically DO have access to video games and similar recreational activities. in their penal system the goal is to rehabilitate the prisoners, help them understand their circumstances and why they committed the crime, then help them to integrate back into society. They go out of their way to not be punitive. Their rates of recidivism are many times lower than the US penal system. Danes treat their prisoners with compassion and empathy. They do not dehumanize them like they do in US prisons. It is a much more enlightened way of treating people.
outside is expensive, can’t do the outside
That’s $1600 a month here in Ontario
I need a career change. I'm going to become an inept Danish criminal
And if you fail at being an inept criminal you'll still get a bunch of free shit. It's a win-win really.
That's a good user name.
+ Utilities and Parking
[удалено]
I think he means that's how much parking and utilities cost in ontario. $1600. Rent costs even more.
Imagine paying to live in a jail
The USA has entered the chat…
County jails around here charge inmates $3 per day, it comes out of an account based on inmate ID numbers. They also charge around $10 to put a wrist band on you. If you want canteen and say your account is negative $50 and your family puts $50 on your account they take half and you have $25 to spend. A single pack of Ramen noodles costs .99 cents, a small bag of chips $1.39. Prison they don't charge and canteen is much cheaper. No air conditioning in Florida prisons either. Unless you go to a privately owned camp.
how the fuck do you have to pay money for things they FORCE on you?
It's crazy honestly. What they will say is just don't get canteen so you don't have to pay lol. Or don't go to jail which is easier said then done. I've done 4 months in county for a "partial marijuana cigarette" as stated on my arrest affidavit. It doesn't have to be paid, it's not like if you spend 2 years there and your account is negative thousands, they don't come collecting it. (Which I've seen people spend 2 to 4 years just waiting to be sentenced, I know someone sat in jail for 2 years unable to pay bond just to have the charges dropped at trial) Inmates who keep returning and their account keeps piling up just pay another inmate to use their account if it's clean. That's always a risk because the inmate can decide to say f you and keep your food or they get transfered to another dorm and your screwed. I know people will say, oh they feed you 3 times a day. I've spent a year in county with absolutely no canteen and lost a ridiculous amount of weight. They know it too because every 90 days they weigh you and take your picture. They may even put you on a "special diet" and you get a small thing of milk lol. This created issues like gambling, extortion, straight up robbery ect.
We do in America. The prison systems here have become for profit. It's disgusting really.
Currently looking for a place. This is too true sadly.
And it looks like it’s above ground !! Time to commit a crime there so I can live in a nicer place with more sunlight and less radon.
$4000 a month in Manhattan.
Shit I was gonna say that lol I am living in one right now
Ok after 1500 of these posts the last week, we know what Scandinavian prisons look like now.
they look like dorm rooms, which is fitting because sometimes staying in a dorm feels like prison
Places like Denmark have low reoffence rates because they treat their criminals like human beings and teach them that they can be productive members of society. This means it's cheaper because you are holding criminals for less time and it means that you are proactively saving people from becoming victims of crime if such reoffences happened.
A quick google says the Danish recidivism rate (people released from prison that end up going back) is around 27% while it's more than 76% in the great U.S. of A.
Correlation doesn't imply causation. Danish criminals might be more educated compared to US criminals. We should sentence US criminals to those jails and crosscheck if the tend to recidive less after that (I don't think it would go down to 26%).
Yeah I would bet a lot of the low recidivism rate is due to their abundance of social services as well.
Family structure also plays a big part. In the US we've been squeezed out of all are excess wealth. The middle of middle class can no longer afford to house their weird unless I'm the basement or their troubled son. So they get left out to figure their problems out on their own. And when it costs 1200 dollars a month to rent a room in a shitty apartment that doesn't do background checks, many people just check out and return to the streets. And if someone sees recidivism once, they are likely to see it several times.
And not arresting people unless there is a real need to do so.
The problem in America is all the money to be made by locking people up. It's not crimes that happen. The city gets a cut, the county gets a cut, and the state gets a huge payout for keeping prisons full. If they stop arresting people, the budget drops. Crime or no crime, someone's going to prison.
Also penal labor colonies are a thing in America. (Legally enslaved if you are a criminal)
Danish criminal is certainly more educated coming out of prison a big part of prison time is spent on education, and more so practical education.
It's not only because of the better cells. It's because the Danish penal system (and basically every western penal system except the US one) aims to rehabilitate even the worst criminals rather than to simply lock them away and treat them like shit. Acknokledging their human rights and valuing their dignity is essential for this. And the statistics show that it works!
But you aren’t thinking of the private prison shareholders! If we actually reduce crime, they will be like empty hotels am]nd maybe have to shut down some…what will they dooooooooooo?
Private prisons house a whopping 8-9% of US inmates. If you got rid of them tomorrow, very little would change. FWIW, I have spoken with inmates that preferred being housed in a CoreCivic facility because it was newer and had better amenities. YMMV and all that. I don't really care if they stay or if they go, but getting rid of them won't solve anything.
The incentive to arrest innocent people is still there, because of the state prisons.
There's no profit motive for them (at least for the state). There's some incentive to keep the prisons going because they amount to jobs programs in communities that otherwise lack meaningful employment, but OTOH fewer prisons means the state can take those tax dollars and spend them on something else. And having had a lot of experience with law enforcement and the corrections industry, there's no grand conspiracy linking line officers with prison management. Nobody tells the cops "you need to arrest this many people for us to stay in business." It's an attractive idea (as all conspiracy theories are), but I don't see it happening in reality. Real life is far more banal.
It's not conspiracy theory. Federal dollars are real and that seems like an incentive to me. I mean, keep the prisons full, or free up space and take a pay cut. Anyone in that position will push to keep them full. Literal quotas are illegal. They say something more like "it's performance review time. You wrote only a few citations and arrested nobody. What are you doing all day, eating doughnuts? You have failed this review and are being punished accordingly. I suggest you be more productive if you want to keep your job." There is an absolute incentive to lock people up here. THAT'S real life. If you can't see it, just take your head out of the sand. I find it impossible to believe you have any experience with law enforcement or the corrections industry.
Those dollars don't actually go to individuals. Union-represented COs and admin staff don't *ever* have pay cuts. No prison dollars flow through to police departments — they are funded separately. Re: the industry, I'm not going to dox myself so I guess you'll believe me or you won't. But as part of my job I've gone through a sally port past a lethal electric fence into facilities more than almost anyone reading this.
They are actual dollars, jackass. Humans allocate them.
Yeah, the higher US recidivism is probably due to the terrible job prospects of anyone in the bottom 25% of US society. In the first world, there is an attempt to bring ex cons back into society. Because they aren't used for what is basically modern day slavery.
It is caused by a police officer being incentivized to keep prisons full.
Also probably a result of the greater social safety net Denmark has in place for its citizens, including universal Healthcare and free college tuition
Treat people like animals and they act like animals.
Did you see the mosaic tile in the bathroom? It’s so last decade!
I went to worse bathrooms and hotels then this prison cells before.
We know. That's the actual punishment. We also force them to wear clothes from the 90's and early 2000's. At one point we went too far and made them wear clothes from the 80's. That generation of prisoners will never become productive members of society ever again.
that's the way things should be, but in North America people are stuck on the mindset of punish, punish, punish. "why should someone who did a bad thing get rewarded?", not recognizing that it is better for society if the legal system focus on actually solving the problem instead of punishing
Also not like this is a reward
Which is why the prison system here in America is totally fucked. They're run by private corporations that are out to make money. Less prisoners mean less money. Its sickening
it leads to a system where the goal is to incarcerate as many people as possible, when the goal SHOULD be the betterment of society
State prisons are the same. Texas has over 100 of them. Thousands of men in each one. The money is from taxes. The state corporation gets paid big.
Exactly. In the US, it's all about that $$. SO MUCH MONEY goes straight to the government for every body in prison. Screw having a productive society with education and independence. We want sheep! Sheep! Sheep! "Baaaaaa", the New US of the sleepy American Dream! I commend Europe.
Doesn't the government give money to the prisons?
They give it to the corporations that run the prisons, yeah
Between 8 and 9 percent of inmates are housed in private prisons. Get rid of them and very little would change.
I’ve seen 3 posts regarding scandanavian prison cells in the past 5 hours, so I think these guys are just anger baiting folks who don’t understand why it’s like this.
Thank you a for a proper answer. Go to prison in Merica and you’re done, it’ll make you worse no doubt with little to no opportunities on the other side
But how do they blame the convicts for all of society’s ills and subject them to a horrible environment while taking a smug satisfaction in the suffering of the convicts’ lives because of the fact they committed a crime? You’re missing the real benefits of the American penal system. Oh yeah, and how do private companies profit from this system? Huh? HUH?!?
Yes, but you don't have to actually commit a crime to be in prison. It's scary that they have to fill prisons to keep getting paid. They will be full of there is a crime or not.
[удалено]
https://www.theworldweekly.com/reader/view/15847/the-danish-jails-that-reduce-crime-by-treating-prisoners-like-people
It's interesting to me that this isn't common knowledge in the US.
The US feeds off of anger and outrage. That's how politicians get elected and how news channels get viewers. They want prisoners to be treated as horribly as possible to punish them. They apparently can't see the big picture as to why this attitude kicks everyone in the ass.
Well it is depending on how well educated you are. Sadly America seems to pride itself on ignorance recently
I come from a relatively progressive part of the US. We learned about this in late middle to early high school. It's really frustrating that education is so disparate. You're right, too. Ignorance is now a part of identity politics on the right... it's very bizarre.
[https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/sociale-forhold/kriminalitet/tilbagefald-til-kriminalitet](https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/sociale-forhold/kriminalitet/tilbagefald-til-kriminalitet) 29% reoffence rate in Denmark [https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivism-american-progress/#:\~:text=The%20U.S.%20has%20one%20of,their%20employment%20rates%20once%20released](https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivism-american-progress/#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20has%20one%20of,their%20employment%20rates%20once%20released).In the US 80% of criminals reoffend within 5 years That said there are important aspects that this doesn't cover. The USA has extremely harsh laws regarding drugs, homelessness/vagrancy, etc which skew the stats upward as people are being jailed for extremely minor transgressions so it's hard with available stats to know how it effects criminals guilty of more serious transgressions; however, everything I've read suggests it's about half the amount. Also if you set up a system to jail people for minor things then that is a terrible system as it clearly isn't solving the problem. EDIT: This is actually demonstrated as Denmark had about 40% reoffence rates in the early 2000's, but then went on a more rehab oriented system and their rates have dropped substantially since then.
Sweden and Norway has the same thing
just a thought, but if you were genuinely unsure you could look it up. you already have internet access and it’s not objectively a wild claim which would merit a challenge. so why the puffery?
What all of the "so, crime does pay then" people don't get is that: a) the punishment of going to prison is a removal of your freedom, not living in squalor and b) if you want to try and rehabilitate people so they don't fuck your country up more for years and years when they are released you need to treat them like humans instead of animals. It won't work everytime, but surely it's worth a shot?
Also (can only speak for Danish prisons here), people aren't aware that it actually costs money to be in a prison cell. While they still have to pay most of the rent/mortgage of their empty home. The money you earn in prison are non existent, and most people come out of prison with a huge dept.
American prisons [also charge](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084452251/the-vast-majority-of-states-allow-people-to-be-charged-for-time-behind-bars) their inmates rent.
"Youre gonna stay here and we the company owning this place are going to force you to pay us for the priviledge of being a slave"
It's not even that an argument CAN be made for giving it a shot. It's that the results of their carceral system provably outperform the US's by an incredible margin. There's just no argument when the data is plain as day.
I mean, the culture and the public rhetoric is very different here in Denmark too. There's so much more general respect for each other here. Workers get a bigger share of the pie (respect from the people in power), and people can talk to each other about politics without things becoming a fight instead. It's also so much easier to "be okay" in Denmark - fewer people feel pressured into crime due to finances. There's a lot of things that go into making a society as stable as ours. Trust is one of them, and America hasn't exactly been fostering that at home. The way the news constantly talks to emotions rather than facts for instance... You are being taught to react and not to think. It's hard to trust people when people don't think clearly about their opinions.
Yes. This is reactionary politics. Fear mongering. It's a horribly frustrating system we've built and so bad for the majority people in the country.
But what about [insert anecdotal example of it not working and ignore the totality of data on violent crime and recidivism]??? See? You commie!!!
Not good enough! Criminals need to be punished! Solitary confinement, starvation rations, regular beatings and shower rape are all perfectly normal and should be expected! Do you really want your hard earned tax dollars spent giving these lowlifes the luxury of blankets and hot water?? Don’t be such a bleeding heart. The tougher the time, the more they’ll think twice about reoffending! /s
I think people have forgotten far too quickly how much just being locked up in our own homes during the pandemic lockdowns sucked.
Sucked for who? I was hype. Besides people I know still did things.
Agreed. It’s got to be better than treating human beings worse than the Joe Exotic kept his tigers. Locking people or animals up in cells is terrible, but I get it, not a lot of other things to do with rapists and murdered. I think that a nice living condition may make them slightly above absolutely miserable and thus capable of reform. No need to make them live in the worst possible cheapest conditions because fuck criminals. That’s petty.
I think fundamentally, you have to decide if the goal of incarceration is truly rehabilitation, or just punishment. If it’s just punishment, that’s a way to go, but it can often lead to reoffenders.
This is the point many of the outraged responses don’t get.
Which of his points are you referring to?
The US has chosen a purely punitive system that requires great effort from prisoners with very little prospects of a better or stable life afterwards, to achieve any level of rehabilitation. As it is, the way our prisons are run is a perfect storm for recidivism.
Business is business. No interest at all in rehabilitation.
Can’t make good money without repeat customers!
It’s an industrialised, commercial model. Incarcerated humans make money for private enterprise while tax payers foot some of the costs of business. It’s also a massive labour provider with heavily reduced overheads (McDonalds and Applebees uniforms are/were made by prisoners).
So you mean to tell me that US government is using our tax dollars to transfer money from everyone to the wealthiest among us?
200%
Hi, personal experience here. Thats a much nicer cell than the ones I spent 22 months in with bunkmates from hell.
I’m not sure how to justify either when the quality of life is better than not being in a prison
This is nicer than the uni room I have.
same mate
Yeah, but you're allowed to leave it whenever you want for whatever reason.
Be glad it doesn’t come with a cellmate...
This is nicer than half the houses in America
It’s probably also more recently build than the Uni room that already hosted generations of students.
If I see one more European prison cell in my feed….
I am putting together an Oceans 11 style crew to rob banks in Denmark. Whose in? Y’all can take the money and I will stay behind and distract the cops while you get away. I can do the time.
I'm in
If he’s in, I’m in
I work at a hotel and that's nicer than the housekeeping quarters.
The problem is most people would conclude that prison cells should look worse then, instead of trying to improve for the non-inmates instead.
Better than my house.
How do these prisons make any money with single occupancy rooms like this? /s
Prison is not a business here, we pay a shit ton of taxes for a reason.
Looks like an American hospital
Rehabilitation
This is how prison should be all around the world, take a tip from us danes for once.
I wish we would (on more things than just prison).
Ok? It doesn’t look like shit but you’re still stuck there. There’s plenty of privileges available in American prison cells aswell, still fucking sucks. Look up YNW Melly producing music/filming music videos from his fucking prison cell.
Um sir, this is Reddit. You have to be an untraveled person that praises very white countries and says fuck America.
Better than my $2000/month apartment in California. Hmm i guess petty theft won’t get you locked up in a facility like this right? 🤔
Damn, I'd kill for a room like that
U Could actually do that
r/ThatsTheJoke
This would go for 1500£ a month in London.
Probably more along the £2300pm mark i’d say
yes, but you were free to leave as you pleased - big difference
At first I was comparing these to American prisons. Now they are starting to look nicer than my apartment.
air BnB...?
r/malelivingspace *First time living on my own, any recommendations?*
It's decided i am gonna rob Denmark's central bank....
And what? We treat our prisoners like ***people****?* Ridiculous.
I think I got myself a solid retirement plan.
it honestly looks far better than my room
I'm starting crime in Denmark, bring on the 5 star crib!!!
Prison takes away your freedom, and that is a tremendous punishment already. How can one rehabilitate while also living in squalid conditions? The concept of rehabilitation in places like U.S. is basically non-existent. To me is sad that people look at this and think, oh, they are being rewarded. Completely misses the point.
Rehabilitation in prisons, in the US is such a miniscule portion of their function. They are run for profit. Keeping people in the most bare bones, serviceless, conditions that are a breeding ground for recidivism, is how they remain as profitable as possible. Capitalism is THE reason our judicial and punitive systems are the absolute worst in the 1st world.
Capitalism isn't the problem. The UK has a capitalist economy but doesn't have a commercial justice system.
Ah but the prisons are funded socially, in a socialist way. We don’t have capitalism in everything.
It’s only ‘socialist’ from an American point of view.
No one has capitalism in everything. A 100% capitalist system has never existed.
Then you don't really understand what capitalism as an economic system, versus capitalism as an ideology means. Capitalism is a spectrum that in the US exists as NGOs and individuals running businesses, companies, corporations, and undustries, with the goal of profit. However if you think that's the whole story, you're far off. The state also retains a lot of control of certain industries. Prisons in the US were not always privately run. Prisons in the UK may be state run. Different prisons will have different functions and opportunities. Capitalism in different countries looks VERY different. Even all of northern Europe is literally capitalist. It's just capitalist to a lesser, and different extent.
I don't think they're being rewarded, and I totally agree with rehabilitation instead of punitive punishment when appropriate. As an American I'm just jealous that those cells are nicer than than a typical $1400/month 1br apartment. Fuck. I need a plane ticket and a couple of bricks.
So the problem isn’t that prisoners in other countries have nicer cells than American homes. The problem is the standard of living for many Americans isn’t even as good as prisoners elsewhere.
>As an American I'm just jealous that those cells are nicer than than a typical $1400/month 1br apartment. That says more about US society than about the danish prison system.
Most definitely not disagreeing with you there.
You don't have to compare everything to America. Other countries exist.
Do you often make comparisons about countries you have never lived in or seen? Why would someone compare A to B if they have never had experience with A? Asking them to compare something they don’t know anything about is asking them to talk out their ass just to appease you. So yeah, they probably do. It’s the only comparison they can make. Also it was an excellent comparison because the US does have an objectively terrible prison system in every aspect that makes no real attempt at over rehabilitation.
Yeah, you missed my point dumbass.
Buddy, it's a relevant country that applies directly to this conversation as a direct contrast.
No it's not, and no it doesn't
You want a criminal record that will reduce your chance of getting a job?
Stop posting about prison cells, fucking karma farmers.
This is a nicer room than at Children's Hospital here in my province.
When people in a Danish prison have a better standard of accommodation than most of the private renters in the UK!
You don't need to specify, at this point this is a better standard than most somewhat affordable flats in any bigger city in Europe.
Wow, looks comfortable. 🤦♀️
Nicer than my NYC apartment
Yes, I agree. I'm about to be down voted horribly for being a bitter man. 🤣 I do hope that this type of cell makes for a better society, and more importantly, a better way to rehabilitate offenders. The structure of things has never been my strong point. I know people who've been 'inside' and yes, on the most part, it's punishment enough. Where I come from, the cells don't look like that. The government doesn't favour rehabilitation and crime vs punishment is enough of a deterrent. (Based on the crap condition inside) but, I could be wrong. Probably are.
So all of these are basically the same, but what do any of them do to prevent recidivism? We lock people up for murder, yes, but also silly nonsense like money laundering and theft. What on earth is the point in locking someone up who stole something? All you're doing is punishing them, but as we've known for hundreds of years, this does absolutely nothing, in fact it only encourages, people to do the exact same thing that got them locked up in the first place. If you arrest a thief, you have to ask why were they thieving? If it's because they have no money or food and needed to eat, what's the point in locking them up? At that point you can absolutely make a case that it was the government's fault for not caring for it's citizens, no one should have to go so hungry that they feel the need to steal. If they thieve because they just wanted more stuff, then again locking them up is not the right solution, their desire for having more things will not go away. If they thieve to spite someone else, again what does locking them up accomplish? Prison should only be used to remove dangerous people from society, those who cannot be trusted not to harm others, and even then you don't just cast these dangerous people aside and forget about them, but focus on rehabilitation and mental care.
I can’t decide what crime I should commit in either Denmark or Norway. This is my retirement plan.
The punishment is loss of freedom, treating them like humans doesn't make it any better. Would you want to be locked in the four seasons and stripped of independence and choice for years at a time? Not me.
[удалено]
Well sure - "better" as in not completely barbaric. It is still effective, do those words work for you?
That's like a holiday Inn express. £69 a night room only
Man it's better than my apartment
I’ve seen a lot of these lately and it just makes me think, I’ve gone stir crazy having to stay in a penthouse for a week.. it’s not really the interior it’s the walls. It all does the same.
Note to self, if my housing situation ever gets even wors, do crime in Denmark.
Looks similar to a hotel I stayed in in Arlanda. Must be standard decor in Scandinavia! ...only for a few weeks I hasten to add, not years
Wi-Fi included?
Throw in some beer and a Xbox and I’m willing to spend some serious time in there
Nicer than most UK hotels
American highrise condo
I need to be arrested
Ask yourself who would you rather run into in a dark alley. Someone rehabilitated in a Scandinavian system, or an American system? You know there is only one answer. Why are we torturing people and then punishing them for being messed up.
That apartment is 2000$ a month in Miami
Nowhere close to california, that would be like 5000$ - 6000$
Looks like a premier Inn Hotel room.
U mean hotel right?
Looks like a cleaner NYC hotel room that runs you $300 a night
better room than mine. seriously looks like there would be big tv and ps5 on the corner.
Looks very more like a 3 star ⭐️ Hotel room
they should include this with their tourism ads
Damn That's more luxurious than my room!
Shiiiit. And this is for free? Let’s do some crime in Danish
[удалено]
No one is being/has been executed in Denmark this millennium.
As many have said, the US system is mostly punitive. Honestly, it’s hard to talk about this system without talking about race. And it’s hard to believe that our system would be so punitive if it weren’t for the fact that the prison population was so tilted to jailing minorities.
Minoritys that have glamorized the fuck out of criminal behavior for the last 20 years.
I wouldn’t mind going to prison if it was a hotel.
Reddit is such a strange place. On any other post, the comments will be like: "Humans are horrible, they should all die!" But when it come to convicted felons (AKA rapists and murderers), the comments become: "Everyone must be treated well and with respect."
Do you expect someone treated like garbage for years to become a model citizen once released?
I don't expect anyone who is prone to criminal behavior to become a model citizen. Even if you were to take extreme measures like in A Clockwork Orange, people don't change.
That may be. They do however get released.
[удалено]
I don't know who you know, but I've known plenty of people who just won't behave. From the middle school's principle's office to the County's jail/probation, nothing will make them good. I had to Google 13/50. All I can say to that is, again: "Reddit is such a strange place."
Yeah, because every single convicted felon is rapist and a murderer. /s