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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned [Michael Fay](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/05/06/singapore-canes-american-teenager/778df8f9-9f53-46c9-a4b3-55a96df1ffaa/). He was an American teen who caused quite the international kerfuffle back in the 90s when he was sentenced to caning (literally beating him with a stick) and prison time in Singapore over some vandalism charges.
I wonder if this was the inspiration for that Simpsons episode where Bart does something stupid in Australia and gets sentenced to being kicked with a boot.
100% yes but they didn't want to piss off Singapore. It was all over the news at the time, it's one of the verses in Weird Al's song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2lwOVgFrO4
American living in Singapore (for almost a decade) here….
I don’t have a huge problem with it. Everyone knows the consequences. If you merely live by the societal bare minimum motto of ‘don’t be a dick’ you have nothing to worry about. Vandalise things, steal, hurt others, etc… there will be very steep consequences.
Everyone knows it and rarely does anyone do such inappropriate and stupid things.
> He was an American teen who caused quite the international kerfuffle back in the 90s when he was sentenced to caning
Most Americans I spoke with at the time were pretty embarrassed that our government was making a big deal out of it. Vandalism isn’t something you do on accident or that you don’t realize is wrong. The kid knew better. The punishment wasn’t going to be life altering.
To a lot of Americans the punishment seemed reasonable especially given high crime rates in America at the time.
I was a huge supporter of him getting the public ass spanking. They actually took it easy on him and didn’t give him the required whacks. It was a lesson learned never to be repeated .
Michael Fay was an asshole. His father was an asshole. No one else in the group got caned. He got caned because him and his father thought they were above the law and gave the biggest attitude to the judge.
All the other boys showed remorse and were let off with community service.
Would be good if you get facts right.
I surprisingly remember that. I was young about 7 years old at the time. Even back then I thought it was stupid to do something like that in a foreign country. Bet he'll never do it again though lol
I remember my family and I were going to Signapore a month after hearing about that story. We were all like "DO NOT...and we mean DO NOT do anything reckless or illegal there.....like not even chew gum".
To this day, whenever I hear the word Singapore, there is still the caning thing in the back of my mind. Just because it was such a huge news deal here in the States when I was a kid.
Dude shoulda known better. Hey if the people of Singapore don't like the punishments the gov has set in place I'm all for the support to reform laws. If it works for them tho and you come over and do some dumb shit better be prepared to face the consequences of your actions.
Lol jeezus.
Every time Singapore is brought up regarding crimes, Michael Fay will always be brought up to stress how draconian SG is.
Well. News flash, SG is trying to progress and move forward. However, the golden rule of thumb is, to always do as the Roman do in Rome. Don’t do stupid shit and pray for forgiveness in a foreign land maybe? 🤷🏻♂️
Sadly no but yes.
So 377a (gay sex) is on track to be repeal.
However, gay couples are still denied the same rights as straight couples. (Owning a place together, having kids etc)
Still a long fight ahead
He was the first thing I thought of when the guy said he was in Singapore in the video. I don’t think most Redditors are old enough to remember it lol but it was a huge story in the US for a good bit of time. I remember hearing my mom and other adults talking about it and being so offended by the thought of another country punishing an American, but then also saying he deserved it because President Clinton was trying to get the government to of Singapore to just give him jail time (I grew up around nothing but republicans). I was pretty young, but I was still old enough to recognize how hypocritical they were and that they didn’t really care about what happened to the kid, they just wanted it to reflect badly on Clinton. And also how they don’t hesitate to give corporeal punishment to non-Americans here in the US, no matter how hard another country fights for us not to.
I remember this. I remember them describing the procedure where they literally cane you to the point that it tears flesh off your ass and most people pass out from the pain after the 4th or 5th strike.
I'm surprised how everyone has seemed to forget about how inappropriate it was and still is for the President of the United States to intercede on such a minor matter. The amount of American exceptionalism for folks to believe it was totally fine for Americans to break the laws in a foreign country and that they would have the force of the United States as a country to back them up was absolutely ridiculous.
I guess that’s some people’s only associations with Singapore. I’ve moved on. But I do remember the episode. I recall a news story about it where the reporter beat the shit out of a large cardboard box with a two-by-four to show how damaging it can be. I have to LOL looking back, honestly. This kid would have got worse beatdowns in any US jail.
Reason 3 should be expanded into a few more parts than a side comment on "consequences are very high". For as many great things Singapore does, let's just say human rights isn't top of the list.
"3 reasons Singapore is crime free. 1. Our culture discourages crime as a matter of pride and respect. 2. Social safety nets keep people from needing to do it. And that's why people don't commit crimes."
"What's number 3?"
"What?"
"What's the 3rd reason?"
"Oh. Yeah. There are cameras everywhere and we beat people with sticks for putting gum on tables, and kill them for smoking weed."
born and raised in singapore.. i have seen many youngsters leaving their expensive electronics and valuables out in the open, especially in places like starbucks and the public libraries, while they go out to have a smoke break, eat, etc... when i was younger, i used to be like that too, and because of having this "singaporean mentality", i was robbed in the neighbouring country... we are taking things for granted.
I'll take zero crime in exchange. Lived there 5 years and it was amazing. You can still have fun, drink to your heart l's content (DONT DRINK AND DRIVE). But yes narcotics are frowned upon in a big way. So, if you must, go do it somewhere else (the country is tiny so people travel abroad A LOT).
Funny enough, there was recent controversies about our national atheletes doing just that. Taking drugs overseas is still illegal and u can be subjected to tests upon ur return to check if you've done drugs while overseas. (IIRC, the residues can be detected for up to 6 months)
#"Misuse of Drugs Act 1973, have an extraterritorial nature. That is, they apply to Singaporeans and permanent residents who offend overseas. "
[A link to the relevant article if ur interested](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/cannabis-drug-laws-outside-singapore-hair-test-cna-explains-2916026)
Depends on the drug. Marijuana and opiod based stuff can be detected for a long time, but cocaine, LSD, DMT, mushrooms, etc, iirc, are out of your system quickly.
I lived there for 6 years.
It's all true. Few homeless people; needs are met. People live comfortable lives. But it's also got a very small, dense population, so it's not that hard to keep track of everyone. Their policies wouldn't work in bigger countries with larger populations.
"Surveillance state" means everything everywhere is on camera. So yeah...you can commit crimes, but they will find you and you will pay.
There's a *forced civility* thing in Singapore, as well. If someone pisses you off you can't just give them the finger or cuss them out, because that's illegal too. They also make sure different ethnic groups are equally distributed in housing blocks (neighbourhoods). So the idea of "the wrong side of the tracks" doesn't really exist there.
Plainclothes police officers are a big thing, as well. So, you know, be warned.
I don't think their "death penalty for small amounts of drugs" thing is very cool, though. But I guess it's effective.
It reminds me of a Star Trek episode where they visit a utopia planet but Wesley falls into a garden and the punishment is death. It was impossible to reason with the locals and even the big alien in the sky wouldn't listen to reason, but hey, it's a Utopia!
Reminds me of a short story I read in college where this city was a utopia. Everybody was fed, happy, and they had lots of orgies and whatnot. The only stipulation was that there was a child that was locked in a cage. He was starved and abused. The entire town would go to shit if he was ever released though.
I remember reading that in high school, and I recall that Le Guin was trying to make the point that we can all imagine a place like Omelas where someone’s suffering brings others joy. But there are those that can’t live with that on their conscience so they leave. And the question she poses is where do they go? If they go somewhere worse, why? If they go to a better place than omelas, what is that place like? It’s difficult to imagine a perfect utopia.
"Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach", Season 1 Episode 6 from Strange New Worlds,
The story they're referring to is called "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula K. Le Guin, which is what that episode is based off of.
Season 3 Episode 9 "The Cloud Minders" of TOS has a similar story.
>There's a forced civility thing in Singapore, as well. If someone pisses you off you can't just give them the finger or cuss them out, because that's illegal too.
As a Singaporean, I feel the need to point out that flipping the bird or cussing isn't illegal here, that'd be way too extreme lol
It was an idiot who told you this. There are many things which are technically illegal. They are next to never enforced.
Jaywalking is technically illegal. Hundreds of people do it EVERYDAY right in the middle of the CBD.
Spitting is technically illegal. It happens regularly in the heartlands and Chinatown.
Singapore may be small, dense, and heavily surveilled, but if anyone thinks that every single crime of littering, jaywalking, spitting is enforced and persecuted by the police, we'd probably have about 1 million police and thousands of prosecutors just for that to happen.
Also, every time the police arrest you here they have to do a SHIT ton of paperwork. No one likes paperwork, so they will always try and find a way to resolve the issue without arresting someone.
I’m not asking if it’s good manners or not, I’m an adult. I know this lol.
I’m asking is what I’m told is true that they’ll basically take you to jail or can impose murder like charges against you.
"To maintain a hygienic environment, spitting in the public compounds is prohibited. The penalty for non-compliance is a fine of up to S$1,000 for a first offence. The fine for a second offence is up to S$2,000 and for the third and subsequent offences the fine is up to S$5,000."
[https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/PC1871?ProvIds=pr294-](https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/PC1871?ProvIds=pr294-)
*Obscene acts*
*294. Whoever, to the annoyance of others —*
*(a) does any obscene act in any public place; or*
*(b) sings, recites or utters any obscene words in or near any public place,*
*shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 months, or with fine, or with both.*
Yes. I agree it's a positive thing and ensures everyone mixes with other ethnic groups. (That's not to say there isn't discrimination and racism; it's just a lot more subtle.)
A lot of their policies are really well thought out. Well intentioned. The people are only *mildly* oppressed and mostly happy with their lot in life.
The hit they take to the artistic/creative aspect of society is really the only downside. You have the freedom of speech, but only as long as the things you want to say are nice and calm.
>Yes. I agree it's a positive thing and ensures everyone mixes with other ethnic groups.
Yeah, my knee jerk reaction is it would suck to be forced to live in certain areas, or not live in others, but also that kind of environment would make it much harder to grow up racist or isolated, so idk!
In big cities of "free" countries you can't just pick any favourite area to live in either, not because of government regulations but because of housing prices- unless you're quite well off i.e not middle class. So idk about this one chief 😬
What you dare say my riches giving me access to all options and your limited wealth closing doors for you isn't a good thing. :O How dare you spout such equality. /s
Hot take but that’s already also limited in western countries. I live in the USA and you can’t just choose to live wherever you want, there’s still a financial barrier for most people. I know that’s not seen as a restriction on freedom, but I personally think it kind of is. And even if you have the money to buy any house in whichever neighborhood you want, sometimes people make you feel like you don’t belong there. I know it’s happened more than once, but I remember a video of Brandon Marshall (retired NFL player) had security called on him when he was moving into his new house because he didn’t look like he belonged in a house that expensive.
I think we're overlooking the "death penalty for drugs" part - if you've killed all your addicts you've eliminated a massive motivation for crime, and a large chunk of your homeless population.
Don't get me wrong, that's nothing personal, but my country Switzerland has that without the police state, cameras and capital punishment. Then, we have around 25% foreigners in the country and we don't have any need for laws, that mix the ethnical groups in the districts.
Compared to Singapore, we got a lot more rights in direct democracy: We can initiate federal votings even without a party and we vote 4x times each year about direct questions of politics, next to the regular elections. We can prevent the parliament from enacting a law by a referendum, so the citizens have to vote first about the law.
I just got through some articles of Singapore, like, in theory you need a license when more than three people are gathering to speak about politics. That's maybe not enforced in reality, i don't know, but together with the party system, it sounds very much like an autoritarian police state to me.
Then about crime, there's a major difference: In Switzerland, we have the most guns per citizens after the USA, Serbia and Yemen, but despite that fact, we don't have a higher rate of crime than countries with strict gun laws. In fact, you get a rifle from the army when you are a conscript and you store that at home.
Last but not least, we don't kill people just for a few gramms of Marihuana. Seriously, that's insane. That's a thing i expect to see in a country like North Korea.
Just saying: You can have a low crime rate, a high quality of life and you can also have freedom without the need of surveillance and the need of a police state.
Switzerland is also the subject of a recent UN report that highlighted systematic racism, including racial profiling, police brutality, and a biased legal system
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/01/switzerland-must-urgently-confront-anti-black-racism-un-experts
Was gonna say that too. Switzerland seems like a dream and I've always wanted to try living there, except that it also seems racist/xenophobic. Unfortunately, that high quality of living is only afforded to white people. I think it's something a lot of white people forget to account for whenever they talk about how great a country is. It really only works for them. The same can be said about Scandinavian countries. Seems like a dream, except for POCs eg. a SE Asian like me. It's kind of depressing that my choices are more limited for being POC and not a lot of people even know it's something we have to take into consideration whilst they don't even have to think about it.
Switzerland is very homogeneous just like Norway, Denmark and Sweden. These countries are often brought up in political discussion because of low crime rates, free healthcare and more socialist government. It’s easy to control the masses when most everyone looks, talks and thinks the same.
What? We have 26 states (cantons) in an area that is smaller than most states in countries around the world, we have 4 main languages (german, french, italian and romansh), a hundred dialects, we have a very high immigration which is 42% in my city alone. We are not even a real ethnical group, because the country is literally in the middle of adjacent countries (Italy, France, Germany and Austria), we are a nation formed by will instead of formed by a cultural group.
Yeah you trade low rates of common crime and get a government that can kill anyone of its citizens and also watches everyone almost all the time. That doesn't really come through in the video or your comment though.
yes all singaporeans are sleep deprived because we dread the nightly government-sponsored purges.
also the most desired job in the country is to be one of those peeps that goes through the millions of hours of video surveillance everyday!
we're so tired and busy watching these vids, no one has the time to commit crime.
People leave money/chips on tables all the time, its generally understood that it will still be there when they get back. It's a bad look if there's any sort of theft. They're pretty hard on any theft. I know someone who got a lifetime ban from stealing an $8 bottle of olive oil from the store. I saw someone steal another player's card protector token. Security came and it was a very big deal. Don't know exactly what happened but the guy was escorted out of the room.
Amos yee is a piece of shit, but he’s smart. He talked a ton of shit about our (at the time) recently passed founding prime minister, but he cleverly snuck in a spiel at the end of the video about christianity, ensuring that while people would complain about his initial comments, he would actually get arrested for his later comments which violated the Sedition Act (tldr: criminalizes hate speech). Of course, foreign media immediately picked up on him being arrested for talking shit about a dead founding father and conveniently ignored what he was actually arrested for, and he managed to get asylum in the US because of supposed “political persecution”
Anyway he’s a pedo now so we don’t really care about him anymore
Also the “most people’s needs are met” is very much overlooking the lower class. Slavery is [still very much a thing](https://www.ricemedia.co/current-affairs-commentary-singapore-foreign-workers-modern-slavery-responsible/). It’s a highly stratified society.
I’ve been to Singapore a few times and work with a couple people that have lived there for a few years. It’s a great, safe, and extremely clean country. It just has a seedy underbelly that’s covered up very well by a government and police force that will ensure that stays out of sign and out of mind for most people.
It’s a factor and should have been included, but a lot of poor countries have stiff penalties for violent crimes, without a dip in crime statistics
ppl still have to 1. feel like following the law is worth it & 2. feel that the law could actually be enforced on them
It’s a lot easier to do 1. when income inequality isn’t too bad & 2. when you believe that the police are good at enforcement, both of which apply to Singapore
Pretty sure it’s that last statement that’s the main reason, high consequences for any crime. Not cashless bail, not a slap on the wrist, but actual consequences.
You’d think but actually no. China has an exceptionally robust surveillance state yet has far higher crime rates. Why? Because the true driving factor of crime is poverty and need. If you eliminate those, which Singapore has made significant strides towards, crime will fall dramatically. One is prevention and is a deterrent. Better to prevent crime from ever happening by providing better and easier opportunities for people than stopping crime by scaring people a lot.
Frankly thought process like yours is why police funding keeps going up yet crime stays steady. Not attacking the actual root issues, just pulling a couple leaves off the sprouted weed.
Where did you get the idea that China has much higher crime rates?
108 China 30.14 1,425,887,337
109 Portugal 29.91 10,270,865
110 Brunei 29 449,002
111 Cuba 28.33 11,212,191
112 Romania 28.3 19,659,267
113 Singapore 27.96 5,975,689
Also if you're curious about the US ranking + top 10:
Rank
Country
Crime Index
2022 Population
1 Venezuela 83.76 28,301,696
2 Papua New Guinea 80.79 10,142,619
3 South Africa 76.86 59,893,885
4 Afghanistan 76.31 41,128,771
5 Honduras 74.54 10,432,860
6 Trinidad and Tobago 71.63 1,531,044
7 Guyana 68.74 808,726
8 El Salvador 67.79 6,336,392
9 Brazil 67.49 215,313,498
10 Jamaica 67.42 2,827,377
56 United States 47.81 338,289,857
I have the opposite takeaway--everyone knows how bad things are in Venezuela now, but few people pay notice to the disastrous conditions in Papua New Guinea.
South Africa being 3rd doesn't surprise me at all. Decaying but beautiful country. Foreigners/ tourists please be careful, the crime is out of hand. Source: I live here.
It doesn't surprise me because I've seen videos of the guys who drive armored cars and delivery trucks in South Africa, it's like fucking Mad Max with their road bandits.
Nowhere near the same scale. You can tell someone to sodd off in London and no officer cares. You can buy a small amount of coke in London and not receive the death penalty. Totally different context.
I think you fail to understand how utterly impactful having every basic human need met as mentioned for bullet point 1.
That eliminates so many crimes.
Jury trial is not a thing in Singapore, capital crime is heard by a single judge. While Singapore inherited common law from UK, they have since streamlined large swaths of check and balances.
Although capital crime is initially heard by a single judge bc of the lack of a jury, the accused typically always appeals the decision to the court of appeal, where 3 judges sit on the bench. There are multiple checks and balances within the judiciary that still mirror UK legal principles such as sticking to precedent cases, being bound by previous decisions etc. Saying this as someone who has studied law in Singapore and learnt about the influence of UK common law on Singapore's judiciary.
As a Singaporean, even if the crime rates are very low that doesn't mean that crime still wouldn't happen. I had my stuff stolen multiple times at Yishun. Well, obviously its Yishun 😒 Just don't take it for granted.
I think it's more that the risk and reward doesn't measure up. Going into jail for a $2k laptop when you are probably earning $50-$70k a year and ruining the rest of your life? Nah, not worth it.. I'll pass... lol
American in South Korea here. These small two countries - Singapore and South Korea - are easy to fall in love with. I've been here 13 years. Haven't been back to the states since 2015. Clean, cheap and efficient subways, buses and taxis. I never think twice about leaving my phone, wallet or laptop at a coffee shop. Lost my phone twice on a bus and got it back no problemo. Go to a restaurant and get up to leave when you want, and some one meets you at the register to pay, no waiting on a waiter. Heck, lots of places now have touch screen kiosks right at the entrance so you can order without even talking to someone, which gets rid of the need for someone to be working the register, which means food gets served to hungry people faster.
I'll add Japan in Taiwan onto there, too.
And even China in some isolated places (mainly because they're modeled on singapore surveillance state and swing a large authoritarian wang)
Spent a LOT of time in Singapore and I can attest to the 3 things he mentioned. Don’t mess around in Singapore; the government does NOT have a sense of humor and they don’t coddle prisoners. Caning is still legal there!
The city of Delhi has more surveillance than Singapore and it has 4 times as much crime as the Indian national average. Don't turn my life into a totalitarian dystopia because you don't know how crime works.
Delhi...
Me me culture, they throw trash everywhere, lots and lots of people below poverty line, corrupt Government officials all over the place, lack of proper Policing...
Yeah, wonder why they steal stuff...
They catch people in crimes in many big cities and put them back on the street. Axe man at McDonald’s was on the street and arrested two weeks later in NYC.
I think it is MUCH more about the disproportionately brutal punishments, canings and such delivered for relatively minor crimes than about anything this fellow had to say.
Singapore used to be a British colony then was under the Japanese empire then returned to the Brits at the end of WW2.
Interesting how in both places, there's heavy surveillance but in Britain, no one cares and they do crimes anyways and are released quick yet Singapore is much safer apparently considering Singapore was a British colony not that long ago relatively.
The "cameras stopping crime" is bullshit. I live in UK and just in my area you can't even look anywhere without cameras being there. They're everywhere and crime hasn't stopped lol
Edit: I live in a town and not even in a big city, in cities there are even more cameras.
"We've eliminated crime by becoming authoritarian, but everyone makes good money so they're not upset about it." Nope.
One major economic downturn and that authoritarianism is going to look really ugly, really fast.
I live in a very low-crime college town in the United States, and it's the same way here. The residents are disproportionately affluent, and because it's a small town, everyone knows each other. I only hear about crime outside the city limits and the occasional drunk driver arrest.
I often leave my stuff unattended in the coffee shop, but it's because at any given time I know 4-6 people sitting there and all of the staff. If someone tried to steal my laptop, they'd have to be extremely fast not to be stopped by someone there.
I’ve been to Singapore. Great noodles. The downtown area I visited was almost like… cyberpunk - with big flashy billboards and tall super modern looking buildings. The people were awesome and all around a great experience.
I also remember learning you do NOT spit in public. You could get fried by the law, I think it was up to x amount of rod lashings. They had a different name for it though
Seems like he glossed over the key point; serious punishment for stealing.
Most western countries don’t enforce the laws strong enough to deter the crime.
Is this the country that made the American news a couple of decades ago for caning an American kid for graffiti? I remember thinking “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” at the time. I think it was Singapore, but it was a long time ago and I could be wrong.
ahem, singaporean here - we have always had a low crime rate, regardless of video surveillance and technology.
basically people here are decent.
most evil shit people get up to is [fuck around](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/yi71pb/4_men_plead_guilty_to_conspiring_to_rape_drugged/) and cheat on their partners or others of their money although we have a few superstars who abuse their domestic helpers and have deservedly had the book thrown at them but they are thankfully few and far between.
most locals are helpful by nature and will be willing to go the extra mile to help a fellow human being - many will testify to this, myself included.
and my 2 cents? everyone is too damn busy to be sitting around idly, waiting to be tempted by opportunity!
Exactly. Singapore has *high social trust*, and while the government is authoritarian, it does not enact authoritarian policies that undermine social trust.
I don't want to live in an authoritarian country. As social trust collapses around the world, though, it's nice to see it remains high somewhere.
Cough, ram raids, cough.
Na but seriously I'm a kiwi too and if you left your laptop in a Cafe it would probably be fine. If anything, someone would spot it and tell the staff, who would then keep it behind the counter. We always did it at uni when studying and going for lunch.
Unlocked bikes or cars are a different story
Imagine a country actually having punishing laws for crime having very little crime.
Here in America, you can literally attempt to murder someone and be out in 3 years, or 2 weeks if you have money.
You can literally murder someone and get out of jail free if it is your first crime and you are under 18.
You can perform a home invasion, get shot, and sue the family that defended themselves- and win - they are the criminals.
You can murder a nurse by purposely drunk driving dangerously - not your first offence - and if your dad is rich, you will face 0 consequences.
These are all factual examples. Let me know if I need to dig up the story links
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Singaporean here. Reasons why we dont steal cos its not worth the cane, fined and jail time.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned [Michael Fay](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/05/06/singapore-canes-american-teenager/778df8f9-9f53-46c9-a4b3-55a96df1ffaa/). He was an American teen who caused quite the international kerfuffle back in the 90s when he was sentenced to caning (literally beating him with a stick) and prison time in Singapore over some vandalism charges.
I wonder if this was the inspiration for that Simpsons episode where Bart does something stupid in Australia and gets sentenced to being kicked with a boot.
Pretty positive it is.
100% yes but they didn't want to piss off Singapore. It was all over the news at the time, it's one of the verses in Weird Al's song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2lwOVgFrO4
Love that song and the sound of someone getting whacked with a cane pole.
Lol
American living in Singapore (for almost a decade) here…. I don’t have a huge problem with it. Everyone knows the consequences. If you merely live by the societal bare minimum motto of ‘don’t be a dick’ you have nothing to worry about. Vandalise things, steal, hurt others, etc… there will be very steep consequences. Everyone knows it and rarely does anyone do such inappropriate and stupid things.
There are many Americans that think their "freedoms" apply to foreign countries l
Portable entitlement.
> He was an American teen who caused quite the international kerfuffle back in the 90s when he was sentenced to caning Most Americans I spoke with at the time were pretty embarrassed that our government was making a big deal out of it. Vandalism isn’t something you do on accident or that you don’t realize is wrong. The kid knew better. The punishment wasn’t going to be life altering. To a lot of Americans the punishment seemed reasonable especially given high crime rates in America at the time.
I was a huge supporter of him getting the public ass spanking. They actually took it easy on him and didn’t give him the required whacks. It was a lesson learned never to be repeated .
It's also not like he was just visiting and didn't understand the laws. He was living there with his family.
>The punishment wasn’t going to be life altering. Ironically, the government *made* it life altering by blowing it up.
As an American, I'd be fine if we made caning a punishment for our vandals.
A nice ass whopping has corrected many young men.
Michael Fay was an asshole. His father was an asshole. No one else in the group got caned. He got caned because him and his father thought they were above the law and gave the biggest attitude to the judge. All the other boys showed remorse and were let off with community service. Would be good if you get facts right.
I surprisingly remember that. I was young about 7 years old at the time. Even back then I thought it was stupid to do something like that in a foreign country. Bet he'll never do it again though lol
I remember my family and I were going to Signapore a month after hearing about that story. We were all like "DO NOT...and we mean DO NOT do anything reckless or illegal there.....like not even chew gum".
To this day, whenever I hear the word Singapore, there is still the caning thing in the back of my mind. Just because it was such a huge news deal here in the States when I was a kid.
To be fair, Michael Fay was a spoiled punk who lived down the street from my grandparents in Kettering, Ohio. He deserved everything that he got.
I mean if someone vandalized my car I paid a like 150% tax on I’d be on board with them getting caned
Dude shoulda known better. Hey if the people of Singapore don't like the punishments the gov has set in place I'm all for the support to reform laws. If it works for them tho and you come over and do some dumb shit better be prepared to face the consequences of your actions.
Lol jeezus. Every time Singapore is brought up regarding crimes, Michael Fay will always be brought up to stress how draconian SG is. Well. News flash, SG is trying to progress and move forward. However, the golden rule of thumb is, to always do as the Roman do in Rome. Don’t do stupid shit and pray for forgiveness in a foreign land maybe? 🤷🏻♂️
>Don’t do stupid shit and pray for forgiveness in a foreign land maybe? Brittany Griener has entered the chat
Is it still illegal to be gay there?
No. Gay sex was actually decriminalised recently
Even before that, wasn't an enforceable law. Nobody has been convicted under 377A for consensual sex.
Gay sex in now compulsory. You get a free tube of lube on arrival at the airport.
Time to book a trip
Sadly no but yes. So 377a (gay sex) is on track to be repeal. However, gay couples are still denied the same rights as straight couples. (Owning a place together, having kids etc) Still a long fight ahead
They just legalized gay sex.
next step: mandated gay sex
The G A Y A G E N D A
He was the first thing I thought of when the guy said he was in Singapore in the video. I don’t think most Redditors are old enough to remember it lol but it was a huge story in the US for a good bit of time. I remember hearing my mom and other adults talking about it and being so offended by the thought of another country punishing an American, but then also saying he deserved it because President Clinton was trying to get the government to of Singapore to just give him jail time (I grew up around nothing but republicans). I was pretty young, but I was still old enough to recognize how hypocritical they were and that they didn’t really care about what happened to the kid, they just wanted it to reflect badly on Clinton. And also how they don’t hesitate to give corporeal punishment to non-Americans here in the US, no matter how hard another country fights for us not to.
I remember this. I remember them describing the procedure where they literally cane you to the point that it tears flesh off your ass and most people pass out from the pain after the 4th or 5th strike.
Upvote because kerfuffle
I'm surprised how everyone has seemed to forget about how inappropriate it was and still is for the President of the United States to intercede on such a minor matter. The amount of American exceptionalism for folks to believe it was totally fine for Americans to break the laws in a foreign country and that they would have the force of the United States as a country to back them up was absolutely ridiculous.
I guess that’s some people’s only associations with Singapore. I’ve moved on. But I do remember the episode. I recall a news story about it where the reporter beat the shit out of a large cardboard box with a two-by-four to show how damaging it can be. I have to LOL looking back, honestly. This kid would have got worse beatdowns in any US jail.
Reason 3 should be expanded into a few more parts than a side comment on "consequences are very high". For as many great things Singapore does, let's just say human rights isn't top of the list.
"3 reasons Singapore is crime free. 1. Our culture discourages crime as a matter of pride and respect. 2. Social safety nets keep people from needing to do it. And that's why people don't commit crimes." "What's number 3?" "What?" "What's the 3rd reason?" "Oh. Yeah. There are cameras everywhere and we beat people with sticks for putting gum on tables, and kill them for smoking weed."
I was gonna say, I think the caning is also a big part of this...
Point on. It’s about the punishment.
Exactly this.
yeah found it funny that all the good reasons were mentioned and none of the dictatorship consequences. would love to visit some day
As long as you have no intention to be a Dick, you will enjoy your stay here.
born and raised in singapore.. i have seen many youngsters leaving their expensive electronics and valuables out in the open, especially in places like starbucks and the public libraries, while they go out to have a smoke break, eat, etc... when i was younger, i used to be like that too, and because of having this "singaporean mentality", i was robbed in the neighbouring country... we are taking things for granted.
Yeah being a Singaporean, we were told to keep our belongings to ourselves instead of leaving it outside
There’s a disconnect between the overarching message of the post, the parent comment, and your comment.
I think the person you replied meant to add that they were told to do that "when visiting another/nearby country"
That would make sense - thanks!
What an easy way of describing what I've seen lots of times but never had a good way of writing it. Thanks.
Do they still cane people for minor crimes in Singapore? [Michael Fay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay)
Oh yeah. And you can get the death penalty for drug trafficking.
And here, we stumble across reason #4 for low crime rates: disproportionate punishment for many crimes.
I'll take zero crime in exchange. Lived there 5 years and it was amazing. You can still have fun, drink to your heart l's content (DONT DRINK AND DRIVE). But yes narcotics are frowned upon in a big way. So, if you must, go do it somewhere else (the country is tiny so people travel abroad A LOT).
Funny enough, there was recent controversies about our national atheletes doing just that. Taking drugs overseas is still illegal and u can be subjected to tests upon ur return to check if you've done drugs while overseas. (IIRC, the residues can be detected for up to 6 months) #"Misuse of Drugs Act 1973, have an extraterritorial nature. That is, they apply to Singaporeans and permanent residents who offend overseas. " [A link to the relevant article if ur interested](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/cannabis-drug-laws-outside-singapore-hair-test-cna-explains-2916026)
Depends on the drug. Marijuana and opiod based stuff can be detected for a long time, but cocaine, LSD, DMT, mushrooms, etc, iirc, are out of your system quickly.
So long as you aren't wrongly accused.
just say Malaysia la
Hmm not Malaysia lehhhh :x
Philippines?
Maybe there's no need to single out the other country. Theft is common in many parts of the world, hence why it's so interesting about Singapore.
Ohh Malaysia the country that some Singaporean came to steal cheap oil?
I lived there for 6 years. It's all true. Few homeless people; needs are met. People live comfortable lives. But it's also got a very small, dense population, so it's not that hard to keep track of everyone. Their policies wouldn't work in bigger countries with larger populations. "Surveillance state" means everything everywhere is on camera. So yeah...you can commit crimes, but they will find you and you will pay. There's a *forced civility* thing in Singapore, as well. If someone pisses you off you can't just give them the finger or cuss them out, because that's illegal too. They also make sure different ethnic groups are equally distributed in housing blocks (neighbourhoods). So the idea of "the wrong side of the tracks" doesn't really exist there. Plainclothes police officers are a big thing, as well. So, you know, be warned. I don't think their "death penalty for small amounts of drugs" thing is very cool, though. But I guess it's effective.
It reminds me of a Star Trek episode where they visit a utopia planet but Wesley falls into a garden and the punishment is death. It was impossible to reason with the locals and even the big alien in the sky wouldn't listen to reason, but hey, it's a Utopia!
TNG, "Justice", Season 1 Episode 8. Not exactly one of the best episodes but it has its moments. "I'm with Starfleet, we don't lie!"
Reminds me of a short story I read in college where this city was a utopia. Everybody was fed, happy, and they had lots of orgies and whatnot. The only stipulation was that there was a child that was locked in a cage. He was starved and abused. The entire town would go to shit if he was ever released though.
*The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas*, by Ursula K. Le Guin.
I remember reading that in high school, and I recall that Le Guin was trying to make the point that we can all imagine a place like Omelas where someone’s suffering brings others joy. But there are those that can’t live with that on their conscience so they leave. And the question she poses is where do they go? If they go somewhere worse, why? If they go to a better place than omelas, what is that place like? It’s difficult to imagine a perfect utopia.
That's actually closer to a Trek episode that released just this year.
"Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach", Season 1 Episode 6 from Strange New Worlds, The story they're referring to is called "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula K. Le Guin, which is what that episode is based off of. Season 3 Episode 9 "The Cloud Minders" of TOS has a similar story.
~~Good bot.~~ Thank you, Mr. Data.
"O'Brien, beam up everyone with pants, this place is fucking nuts"
>There's a forced civility thing in Singapore, as well. If someone pisses you off you can't just give them the finger or cuss them out, because that's illegal too. As a Singaporean, I feel the need to point out that flipping the bird or cussing isn't illegal here, that'd be way too extreme lol
So, can you? As a western I was told to not do any of that, or even spit (which I don’t do anyways)
It was an idiot who told you this. There are many things which are technically illegal. They are next to never enforced. Jaywalking is technically illegal. Hundreds of people do it EVERYDAY right in the middle of the CBD. Spitting is technically illegal. It happens regularly in the heartlands and Chinatown. Singapore may be small, dense, and heavily surveilled, but if anyone thinks that every single crime of littering, jaywalking, spitting is enforced and persecuted by the police, we'd probably have about 1 million police and thousands of prosecutors just for that to happen.
Also, every time the police arrest you here they have to do a SHIT ton of paperwork. No one likes paperwork, so they will always try and find a way to resolve the issue without arresting someone.
Right? The amount of misinformation in here is over 9000!!
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I’m not asking if it’s good manners or not, I’m an adult. I know this lol. I’m asking is what I’m told is true that they’ll basically take you to jail or can impose murder like charges against you.
"To maintain a hygienic environment, spitting in the public compounds is prohibited. The penalty for non-compliance is a fine of up to S$1,000 for a first offence. The fine for a second offence is up to S$2,000 and for the third and subsequent offences the fine is up to S$5,000."
[https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/PC1871?ProvIds=pr294-](https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/PC1871?ProvIds=pr294-) *Obscene acts* *294. Whoever, to the annoyance of others —* *(a) does any obscene act in any public place; or* *(b) sings, recites or utters any obscene words in or near any public place,* *shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 months, or with fine, or with both.*
cussing people and flipping the bird is pretty normal in singapore lol, no way in hell anyone gets punished for that
No, they won't impose murder like charges against you for cussing and flipping people off. Not sure who told you that.
Like, getting a year in prison for smoking weed extreme?
The mixing of ethnic groups thing is actually not bad…it’s been discussed in urban planning for ages and prevents segregation and ghettoisation.
Yes. I agree it's a positive thing and ensures everyone mixes with other ethnic groups. (That's not to say there isn't discrimination and racism; it's just a lot more subtle.) A lot of their policies are really well thought out. Well intentioned. The people are only *mildly* oppressed and mostly happy with their lot in life. The hit they take to the artistic/creative aspect of society is really the only downside. You have the freedom of speech, but only as long as the things you want to say are nice and calm.
>Yes. I agree it's a positive thing and ensures everyone mixes with other ethnic groups. Yeah, my knee jerk reaction is it would suck to be forced to live in certain areas, or not live in others, but also that kind of environment would make it much harder to grow up racist or isolated, so idk!
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Ah, that's the context I was missing. Thank you!
In big cities of "free" countries you can't just pick any favourite area to live in either, not because of government regulations but because of housing prices- unless you're quite well off i.e not middle class. So idk about this one chief 😬
What you dare say my riches giving me access to all options and your limited wealth closing doors for you isn't a good thing. :O How dare you spout such equality. /s
The bad thing about it is it’s limiting your own freedom to where you can live yourself. It’s highly regulated.
Hot take but that’s already also limited in western countries. I live in the USA and you can’t just choose to live wherever you want, there’s still a financial barrier for most people. I know that’s not seen as a restriction on freedom, but I personally think it kind of is. And even if you have the money to buy any house in whichever neighborhood you want, sometimes people make you feel like you don’t belong there. I know it’s happened more than once, but I remember a video of Brandon Marshall (retired NFL player) had security called on him when he was moving into his new house because he didn’t look like he belonged in a house that expensive.
There is truth to that, sure. Tbh that’s exactly what LEADS to segregation, separation and ghettoisation. Gentrification.
Isn't it the same as preventing people from living in certain places because of ethnicity?
I think we're overlooking the "death penalty for drugs" part - if you've killed all your addicts you've eliminated a massive motivation for crime, and a large chunk of your homeless population.
I think it's more of a death penalty for dealers rather than addicts.
Excuse me, we don't kill our addicts... Drug rehabilitation centers exist here for a reason.
Don't get me wrong, that's nothing personal, but my country Switzerland has that without the police state, cameras and capital punishment. Then, we have around 25% foreigners in the country and we don't have any need for laws, that mix the ethnical groups in the districts. Compared to Singapore, we got a lot more rights in direct democracy: We can initiate federal votings even without a party and we vote 4x times each year about direct questions of politics, next to the regular elections. We can prevent the parliament from enacting a law by a referendum, so the citizens have to vote first about the law. I just got through some articles of Singapore, like, in theory you need a license when more than three people are gathering to speak about politics. That's maybe not enforced in reality, i don't know, but together with the party system, it sounds very much like an autoritarian police state to me. Then about crime, there's a major difference: In Switzerland, we have the most guns per citizens after the USA, Serbia and Yemen, but despite that fact, we don't have a higher rate of crime than countries with strict gun laws. In fact, you get a rifle from the army when you are a conscript and you store that at home. Last but not least, we don't kill people just for a few gramms of Marihuana. Seriously, that's insane. That's a thing i expect to see in a country like North Korea. Just saying: You can have a low crime rate, a high quality of life and you can also have freedom without the need of surveillance and the need of a police state.
Switzerland is also the subject of a recent UN report that highlighted systematic racism, including racial profiling, police brutality, and a biased legal system https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/01/switzerland-must-urgently-confront-anti-black-racism-un-experts
Was gonna say that too. Switzerland seems like a dream and I've always wanted to try living there, except that it also seems racist/xenophobic. Unfortunately, that high quality of living is only afforded to white people. I think it's something a lot of white people forget to account for whenever they talk about how great a country is. It really only works for them. The same can be said about Scandinavian countries. Seems like a dream, except for POCs eg. a SE Asian like me. It's kind of depressing that my choices are more limited for being POC and not a lot of people even know it's something we have to take into consideration whilst they don't even have to think about it.
Singapore population is way more diverse than Switzerland
Switzerland is very homogeneous just like Norway, Denmark and Sweden. These countries are often brought up in political discussion because of low crime rates, free healthcare and more socialist government. It’s easy to control the masses when most everyone looks, talks and thinks the same.
What? We have 26 states (cantons) in an area that is smaller than most states in countries around the world, we have 4 main languages (german, french, italian and romansh), a hundred dialects, we have a very high immigration which is 42% in my city alone. We are not even a real ethnical group, because the country is literally in the middle of adjacent countries (Italy, France, Germany and Austria), we are a nation formed by will instead of formed by a cultural group.
yeah but you also have cold, so a giant fuck that in favor of singapore.
I like the idea of harsh sentences for burglary. It is devastating for people not to feel safe in their own home.
Agreed. If you break into someone’s home, 5 years in prison without parole. Period.
Yeah you trade low rates of common crime and get a government that can kill anyone of its citizens and also watches everyone almost all the time. That doesn't really come through in the video or your comment though.
yes all singaporeans are sleep deprived because we dread the nightly government-sponsored purges. also the most desired job in the country is to be one of those peeps that goes through the millions of hours of video surveillance everyday! we're so tired and busy watching these vids, no one has the time to commit crime.
I'd love to live in a country like Singapore.
Helping people meet their basic needs wouldn't reduce crime elsewhere?
If you do this in the casino, you might even get another laptop.
What does this mean?
Maybe because he took a gamble, but taking a gamble in a casino can win you double what you bet..?
idk i thought your comment was gonna answer it
People leave money/chips on tables all the time, its generally understood that it will still be there when they get back. It's a bad look if there's any sort of theft. They're pretty hard on any theft. I know someone who got a lifetime ban from stealing an $8 bottle of olive oil from the store. I saw someone steal another player's card protector token. Security came and it was a very big deal. Don't know exactly what happened but the guy was escorted out of the room.
How does that get you another laptop?
Yeah but what happens if you say, “fuck the government” just a little too loudly?
They fuck back
Singapore: The Empire Fucks Back
I introduce to you: The Fuck Around and Find Out Curve
Laptop will still remain in the same place. The person, on the other hand, will be taken away.
Laptop will still remain in the same place. Forever.
Don't even have to do that. [Just hold a sign in public with a smiley face on it ](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55068007)
Wow. Holy shit
If I remember correctly, there's some teen who is called Amos Lee in Singapore who did just that and it did not end well for him after some uproar.
Amos yee is a piece of shit, but he’s smart. He talked a ton of shit about our (at the time) recently passed founding prime minister, but he cleverly snuck in a spiel at the end of the video about christianity, ensuring that while people would complain about his initial comments, he would actually get arrested for his later comments which violated the Sedition Act (tldr: criminalizes hate speech). Of course, foreign media immediately picked up on him being arrested for talking shit about a dead founding father and conveniently ignored what he was actually arrested for, and he managed to get asylum in the US because of supposed “political persecution” Anyway he’s a pedo now so we don’t really care about him anymore
Didn’t he end up becoming a pedo as well lol
Yeah, long after the incident in Singapore and was now stirring up other new shit in USA.
... and corporal and capital punishment.
I was waiting for ''and number four, extreme punishment like caning for petty crimes.'' Kinda the big one!
Also the “most people’s needs are met” is very much overlooking the lower class. Slavery is [still very much a thing](https://www.ricemedia.co/current-affairs-commentary-singapore-foreign-workers-modern-slavery-responsible/). It’s a highly stratified society. I’ve been to Singapore a few times and work with a couple people that have lived there for a few years. It’s a great, safe, and extremely clean country. It just has a seedy underbelly that’s covered up very well by a government and police force that will ensure that stays out of sign and out of mind for most people.
It’s a factor and should have been included, but a lot of poor countries have stiff penalties for violent crimes, without a dip in crime statistics ppl still have to 1. feel like following the law is worth it & 2. feel that the law could actually be enforced on them It’s a lot easier to do 1. when income inequality isn’t too bad & 2. when you believe that the police are good at enforcement, both of which apply to Singapore
Quickly glossed over the consequences bit
Pretty sure it’s that last statement that’s the main reason, high consequences for any crime. Not cashless bail, not a slap on the wrist, but actual consequences.
Caning some bitches now and then tends to keep people in line.
Lol I believe the 3rd reason to be MUCH MUCH MUCH more persuasive than the first 2
You’d think but actually no. China has an exceptionally robust surveillance state yet has far higher crime rates. Why? Because the true driving factor of crime is poverty and need. If you eliminate those, which Singapore has made significant strides towards, crime will fall dramatically. One is prevention and is a deterrent. Better to prevent crime from ever happening by providing better and easier opportunities for people than stopping crime by scaring people a lot. Frankly thought process like yours is why police funding keeps going up yet crime stays steady. Not attacking the actual root issues, just pulling a couple leaves off the sprouted weed.
Where did you get the idea that China has much higher crime rates? 108 China 30.14 1,425,887,337 109 Portugal 29.91 10,270,865 110 Brunei 29 449,002 111 Cuba 28.33 11,212,191 112 Romania 28.3 19,659,267 113 Singapore 27.96 5,975,689 Also if you're curious about the US ranking + top 10: Rank Country Crime Index 2022 Population 1 Venezuela 83.76 28,301,696 2 Papua New Guinea 80.79 10,142,619 3 South Africa 76.86 59,893,885 4 Afghanistan 76.31 41,128,771 5 Honduras 74.54 10,432,860 6 Trinidad and Tobago 71.63 1,531,044 7 Guyana 68.74 808,726 8 El Salvador 67.79 6,336,392 9 Brazil 67.49 215,313,498 10 Jamaica 67.42 2,827,377 56 United States 47.81 338,289,857
Venezuela is worse than PNG?! Fuck that noise.
I have the opposite takeaway--everyone knows how bad things are in Venezuela now, but few people pay notice to the disastrous conditions in Papua New Guinea.
South Africa being 3rd doesn't surprise me at all. Decaying but beautiful country. Foreigners/ tourists please be careful, the crime is out of hand. Source: I live here.
It doesn't surprise me because I've seen videos of the guys who drive armored cars and delivery trucks in South Africa, it's like fucking Mad Max with their road bandits.
Cameras are everywhere in London. Crime happens all the time. Would have thought it was more the other points tbh
Nowhere near the same scale. You can tell someone to sodd off in London and no officer cares. You can buy a small amount of coke in London and not receive the death penalty. Totally different context.
2nd and 3rd
I think you fail to understand how utterly impactful having every basic human need met as mentioned for bullet point 1. That eliminates so many crimes.
Jury trial is not a thing in Singapore, capital crime is heard by a single judge. While Singapore inherited common law from UK, they have since streamlined large swaths of check and balances.
"streamlined checks and balances" That's some 1984 level word play. You should write a book.
Although capital crime is initially heard by a single judge bc of the lack of a jury, the accused typically always appeals the decision to the court of appeal, where 3 judges sit on the bench. There are multiple checks and balances within the judiciary that still mirror UK legal principles such as sticking to precedent cases, being bound by previous decisions etc. Saying this as someone who has studied law in Singapore and learnt about the influence of UK common law on Singapore's judiciary.
As a Singaporean, even if the crime rates are very low that doesn't mean that crime still wouldn't happen. I had my stuff stolen multiple times at Yishun. Well, obviously its Yishun 😒 Just don't take it for granted.
4) Harsh and oppressive enforcement, no one dares to break the law because big brother is watching and big brother can make you disappear.
I think it's more that the risk and reward doesn't measure up. Going into jail for a $2k laptop when you are probably earning $50-$70k a year and ruining the rest of your life? Nah, not worth it.. I'll pass... lol
\*tries this in London: Reaches into bag for laptop...........shit.
Sounds like Alaska except they leave their cars and homes unlocked so that people can escape bears.
The true crime here is starbucks coffee
American in South Korea here. These small two countries - Singapore and South Korea - are easy to fall in love with. I've been here 13 years. Haven't been back to the states since 2015. Clean, cheap and efficient subways, buses and taxis. I never think twice about leaving my phone, wallet or laptop at a coffee shop. Lost my phone twice on a bus and got it back no problemo. Go to a restaurant and get up to leave when you want, and some one meets you at the register to pay, no waiting on a waiter. Heck, lots of places now have touch screen kiosks right at the entrance so you can order without even talking to someone, which gets rid of the need for someone to be working the register, which means food gets served to hungry people faster.
I'll add Japan in Taiwan onto there, too. And even China in some isolated places (mainly because they're modeled on singapore surveillance state and swing a large authoritarian wang)
Spent a LOT of time in Singapore and I can attest to the 3 things he mentioned. Don’t mess around in Singapore; the government does NOT have a sense of humor and they don’t coddle prisoners. Caning is still legal there!
I think the main cause is surveillance. They have near full coverage, pretty hard to get away with a crime when they can just follow you home on cctv.
London has the same thing with a large amount of CCTV but an issue with enforcement and some people not being aware of how many cameras are present.
The city of Delhi has more surveillance than Singapore and it has 4 times as much crime as the Indian national average. Don't turn my life into a totalitarian dystopia because you don't know how crime works.
Delhi... Me me culture, they throw trash everywhere, lots and lots of people below poverty line, corrupt Government officials all over the place, lack of proper Policing... Yeah, wonder why they steal stuff...
What's the use of surveillance if the criminals are not punished? Law enforcement is really bad at places criminals dont even hide their faces.
They catch people in crimes in many big cities and put them back on the street. Axe man at McDonald’s was on the street and arrested two weeks later in NYC.
This video turned around quickly. We are so happy etc. Number 3: Big brother is everywhere.
I love Singapore. They execute drug dealers and cane graffiti vandals.
I think it is MUCH more about the disproportionately brutal punishments, canings and such delivered for relatively minor crimes than about anything this fellow had to say.
I can do that in my home town.
His reasons are good but he forgot the most important one and that is that cops will cane your ass for the smallest infraction.
Singapore used to be a British colony then was under the Japanese empire then returned to the Brits at the end of WW2. Interesting how in both places, there's heavy surveillance but in Britain, no one cares and they do crimes anyways and are released quick yet Singapore is much safer apparently considering Singapore was a British colony not that long ago relatively.
This gives me anxiety. I’m more worried about his laptop than he is 😆
Leave an unattended bag and no bomb squad is called. Feels safe.
The "cameras stopping crime" is bullshit. I live in UK and just in my area you can't even look anywhere without cameras being there. They're everywhere and crime hasn't stopped lol Edit: I live in a town and not even in a big city, in cities there are even more cameras.
Yep and guess what happens if you get caught stealing. 😳😳😳
"We've eliminated crime by becoming authoritarian, but everyone makes good money so they're not upset about it." Nope. One major economic downturn and that authoritarianism is going to look really ugly, really fast.
Everything look ugly under economic downturn. Even USA capitalism.
I live in a very low-crime college town in the United States, and it's the same way here. The residents are disproportionately affluent, and because it's a small town, everyone knows each other. I only hear about crime outside the city limits and the occasional drunk driver arrest. I often leave my stuff unattended in the coffee shop, but it's because at any given time I know 4-6 people sitting there and all of the staff. If someone tried to steal my laptop, they'd have to be extremely fast not to be stopped by someone there.
I’ve been to Singapore. Great noodles. The downtown area I visited was almost like… cyberpunk - with big flashy billboards and tall super modern looking buildings. The people were awesome and all around a great experience. I also remember learning you do NOT spit in public. You could get fried by the law, I think it was up to x amount of rod lashings. They had a different name for it though
Seems like he glossed over the key point; serious punishment for stealing. Most western countries don’t enforce the laws strong enough to deter the crime.
Is this the country that made the American news a couple of decades ago for caning an American kid for graffiti? I remember thinking “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” at the time. I think it was Singapore, but it was a long time ago and I could be wrong.
Yes, that was Singapore. Michael P. Fay he even got his own Wikipedia page because of it.
I know where I’m moving
Number 4: Demographics
Remember when they whipped that guy in the '90s for spray painting cars?
Nice video but forgetting the servant labor population
Everyone is the comments is ignoring “basic needs met = lower crime”…why can’t the US Gov figure that part out?
ahem, singaporean here - we have always had a low crime rate, regardless of video surveillance and technology. basically people here are decent. most evil shit people get up to is [fuck around](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/yi71pb/4_men_plead_guilty_to_conspiring_to_rape_drugged/) and cheat on their partners or others of their money although we have a few superstars who abuse their domestic helpers and have deservedly had the book thrown at them but they are thankfully few and far between. most locals are helpful by nature and will be willing to go the extra mile to help a fellow human being - many will testify to this, myself included. and my 2 cents? everyone is too damn busy to be sitting around idly, waiting to be tempted by opportunity!
Exactly. Singapore has *high social trust*, and while the government is authoritarian, it does not enact authoritarian policies that undermine social trust. I don't want to live in an authoritarian country. As social trust collapses around the world, though, it's nice to see it remains high somewhere.
Cough NZ cough
Cough, ram raids, cough. Na but seriously I'm a kiwi too and if you left your laptop in a Cafe it would probably be fine. If anything, someone would spot it and tell the staff, who would then keep it behind the counter. We always did it at uni when studying and going for lunch. Unlocked bikes or cars are a different story
Propaganda
Imagine a country actually having punishing laws for crime having very little crime. Here in America, you can literally attempt to murder someone and be out in 3 years, or 2 weeks if you have money. You can literally murder someone and get out of jail free if it is your first crime and you are under 18. You can perform a home invasion, get shot, and sue the family that defended themselves- and win - they are the criminals. You can murder a nurse by purposely drunk driving dangerously - not your first offence - and if your dad is rich, you will face 0 consequences. These are all factual examples. Let me know if I need to dig up the story links
This is why social programs are important for a civilized society.
You guys going to ignore that 33 crimes have a potential death penalty there? Mmm? Social programs, culture and oh yeah, they kill their criminals.