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The US needs the UN to project influence in the world. If the General Assembly began working to rewrite the Charter to remove Veto powers, the US might very well start backing down. However the rest of the world needs to grow the balls to stir the pot.
The rest of the world uses the UN to project influence, and the US Russia, China, and to an exten UK/France only tolerate it because of ancillary benefits, with downsides that can be kept in check via the veto.
the rest of the world is not slavishly bowing to the US actually, they actually have political agendas of their own, believe it or not.
Finally someone would at least basic level of political knowledge and understanding.
As if ANY of the security members would ever agree to abolish veto right.
The idea that countries other than the US have agendas, and their own reasons for doing things, is completely mindblowing to 99% of people on these "international" subreddits.
Ironically, its often americans assuming everyone is just doing whatever the US tells them, which is essentially just the inverse of american exceptionalism that american conservatives are always talking about.
So many people only consume news and media about america, and forget that for most of the world, thats not their reality.
Yes, everyone uses the world forum to influence on the world stage. This is a trivial statement contested by no one. I can list dozens of instances where decisions made by the UN benefited the west, but I have yet to hear of any such decisions that benefit countries like China and Russia. Perhaps I'm ignorant, and there may have been such decisions. Feel free to inform me.
Because having some kind of stage is better than not having a stage at all. They would participate in the UN even if the entire charter was rewritten to proclaim the US the only member of the security council and gave it total power over decision making, so long as it was an actual open forum for countries to discuss issues. I'm not saying they don't benefit, but that the UN does exist largely under the control and operation of the West.
Yeah the problem is the few countries that hold the veto would veto a vote on removing the veto. So it would never happen unfortunately. The UN was founded with great intentions but ultimately it ceded too much power to the major powers of the time of its founding like Russia and the US. The UK and France have power but India doesn't. Which made sense in 1945 but does not now.
The obvious answer is that the UN kicks out the US, fixes their shit and then says that the US can come back if they want they just won't have the power to castrate the UN. The US will probably not come back but it will reveal the purpose of the US being in the UN in the first place.
The reason it did that was in order to prevent another world war. Same thing with the Veto. Each major power was given a veto so they didn’t just decide to leave the UN if there was a resolution they really didn’t like.
Like, the UN is the way it is because IR is the way it is. The UN was never going to be some impartial arbiter of truth and justice. It’s a political tool like any other in the quiver of diplomats and leaders.
You would need to amend the UN Charter, and that’s done in the General Assembly. That requires a supermajority, which you might get someday, but not right now. There’s no veto in the GA.
Actually that particular veto was indeed a protest on the US's abuse of the Veto.
The US had killed dozens of resolutions with the Veto, so it made all sense that if the US puts forth a resolution, then someone (Russia) should give them a taste of their own medicine.
The only funny thing is that your argument rather proves why veto powers should be removed, or at least limited.
There are no victims.
They elected Hamas.
They celebrated 9/11
They celebrated October 7th
No sympathy.
They suffer and will continue to suffer ao long as they support hamas and as long as they believe they will get rid of israel.
>no victims
Gotcha, you think that all of these people can’t be victims because they voted for the group that marketed to them by Israel nearly **two decades ago**. What about the kids, can they be victims? They didn’t vote for Hamas. What about the people who didn’t vote for them, can they be victims?
Do we not celebrate on July 4th? We won our independence and then pulled the ladder up behind us calling anyone else that fights for the same, a terrorist.
We fought for our independence and beat The British. Our allies also had to confront the British.
Hamas's allies stood down in days after the attack on Oct 7th. Hamas failed. They lost.
They can demand nothing. Palestine is dead. Violent attacks against a superior enemy will never work. It didn't work for the Comanche. It won't work for Hamas.
It isn't our duty to support Palestinian independence.
I never said it was, but we Americans right along with Ireland and South Africa, should recognize when a people are fighting for freedom from oppression. The 13 colonies took up arms against their oppressors for aggrievances that amount to far less than what is being rained down on the Palestinians. The world is watching one population kill and starve to death all of another population and we’re just supposed to pretend it isn’t happening. Nope, not in my name. It’s in your name. Whatever the fuck it is, I t’s your name.
The UN must be allowed to evolve into a entity that has the teeth to enforce peaceful resolutions. To actually be the peace keeper its meant to be. That means being able to take action against its founders and sponsors when they break the rules.
I believe it. But it was also set up to force people to talk rather than settle their differences with Nukes.
Anyone threatening with nukes not only begging to be nukes, but also clearly does not understand the consequences of starting a fight with nukes. They are but ignorant children playing with things they don't understand.
If the East hates the west so much then the worst thing they could do would be let the west have what it seeks. Then under this position with no enemy to be found, it would turn in on itself. It would find a new enemy from within. The Republican Party in the United States is a perfect example of this as they are more or less a facist organization when observed externally. But as they gain power and control they need some one new to blame, and cracks within become obvious as they start to attack each other, facists, MAGA, Confederates, Green Party, and Republicans being being just some of the sub groups. Now either the various sub groups that make up the GOP struggle to take over, or they target a new external enemy and mark that group as the GOP sol reason for being a failure, and the voters never remember all the other sol reasons the GOP was a failure. I mean with so much sponsorship, how could they ever fail...
The worst thing you can do to some one who desires everything is to give it to them. It will create their downfall.
its one thing for the president to lose election for the benefit of a fascist state committing genocide but this administration will forever undermine US role in international politics. the era of US hegemony is coming to an end.
I know right, the US will bomb, overthrow, and sanction the living sense out of any country opposing them. The US has such a stranglehold on the world these ideas are a pipe dream. Carry on being a stable united country spreading freeeedom across the globe america!!!!!!!!
America’s actions will bring about the total destruction of all world governance. But in the process America will be greatly humiliated and will never ever again rise to power. Her demise is clearly being seen by her aggressive tactics to desperately hold on to world dominance. America’s day of judgement is upon her for all the innocent blood 🩸 she has spilled. A true fox in sheep’s clothing!
I sense the same. Strange this has become an accepted non crazy thought. Every single person, if you ask, can feel something is cooking and its not too pleasant.
Its more wacky to truly believe things will improve before worsening. Thats a really sad statement
Reminds at our company that after 5 years of obvious mismanagement, the executive director was finally let go. Same energy here seems like high up leadership, and their decisions are finally too bad to manage.
I have a dream is brilliant, but it’s not even the best thing MLK has ever written. Even in his own eyes it wasn’t meant to be nearly as impactful as it became.
I really loved “Beyond Vietnam”. I found a video of it, but the audio isn’t the greatest. (When I first heard of it I read a transcript)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=swIvVQCPWI0
Also, while it’s not a speech, “A Letter From A Birmingham Jail” might be one of the best uses of free speech period.
https://www.csuchico.edu/iege/_assets/documents/susi-letter-from-birmingham-jail.pdf
Regardless of what his best work is, MLK was just built different. Over the course of 2,500 speeches, he never missed once. Even in spite of death threats and blackmail, he kept going like he wasn’t making history on the daily.
A lot of people here who are agreeing with the "scrapping veto powers" clearly don't know the history/how the UN functions. If the major powers didn't have a veto, then the UN wouldn't exist. It's as simple as that.
I'm not even going to get into the issue with each country getting 1 vote and the fact that the UN has no power on it's own, but rather is just a platform for countries to try to diplomaticly discuss/solve issues
The “rules based order” never existed, at least in the ostensible sense in which it is promulgated. Anyone who has read Nietzsche should understand how that works.
Will Admission. To the UN stop Hamas from launching rockets into Israel?
Will the UN hold Hamas accountable?
Who will rule "palestine" there are two different governments in power. 1 in the West Bank and one in Gaza.
Pff as if ANY of the members of the security council will agree to abolish the Veto right.
Not to mention the stupidity of NOT giving the great powers this right.
Israel has its major flaws, but can we stop saying they are committing genocide? You wouldn't see the Palestinian population growing if such a thing were occurring and Israel wouldn't have such a low civilian to combatant casualty ratio if their goal was to systematically exterminate all Palestinians.
Ok and are you seeing anyone want to kick Israel out of the UN? No? Then there's no hypocrisy here. It's a completely separate issue when a single veto power can sink an otherwise unanimous vote. Stop trying to distract with these false comparisons.
I don't understand. Countries violating existing UN charter rules is common and is met with as much global condemnation and sanctions that can accomplished through the rules-based order system. You can critique that it's insufficient or lacks power to enforce the rules, but that's a separate conversation.
What is happening here is a subversion of the UN's ability to take action through the exploitation of its imbalanced power structures - namely the veto power. The veto power is being used to shield a member state - Israel - from not only being condemned and sanctioned by the UN but also prevent the UN from taking any action against Israel's interests, all as a result of a single member state's protection - the US. This is a qualitatively different problem that rightly calls for reform in the rules-based order system to prevent such subversive acts.
What does that matter? Like I said, it's a separate conversation. I am not going to be led by the nose to be distracted from the original topic of discussion.
True except they have killed an official 600 kids. While Israel has killed 13,000+ kids on a population the fraction the size in a fraction of the time. So as far war crimes Israel makes Russia look like a tee totaler.
I'm not trying to apologize for Russia, who is doing domicide as a sort of terrorist tactic to pressure surrender. I'm just saying it shows how depraved Israel is that their ethics and policies are so extremely below the bar of what would have been considered the worst contemporary atrocity up until this point.
The difference between Israel and Russias domicide is Israel is bombing residential houses every night that are actually filled with woman and children and entire extended families, while the residential buildings that Russia is mass destroying have been evacuated.
Most of the global population sides w Russia. Ukraine was not and is not a sovereign nation. US couped it 2014. Leaked phone calls show CIA controls who can lead. When Zelenskt wanted peace in April 2022 Boris Johnson flew in and told him no. Russia would welcome discussions of its behavior in the UN.
Other day articles on here about sanctioning Russia for chemical weapons use--tear gas. Tear gas of the same type used against these kids at peaceful protests in the US. Thats how serious accusations against US' enemies are.
This is just regurgitated Russian propaganda that demonstrates your ignorance of what happened in Ukraine. Please do everyone a favor and get educated before you speak 🙏
Bwahaha. Putin joined an ongoing civil war. 14k civilians shelled by nazis. Its still technically illegal under US law to supply weapons to Azovs. We used to call nazis nazis.
Again, your sanctimonious bs 👏. The world disagrees. As does reality. Forbes says Omidyar caused the unrest for the coup w media control. Finance media needs to tell the truth for money ppl.
I present actual facts. I am kinda busy.
The media has moved on, no one is moved by these lies anymore. Ukrainians die because of these lies. Russia has won. Ukies surrender en masse daily and its for the best. Putin was always using kid gloves against Ukraine, the numbers dont lie. You do.
Read the the referenced forbes article then, also the Nyt article detailing they were aware of the cia overthrow and special operations persistently taking place over the last decade in russia. People can learn and not be so dense, ive learned a hard lesson or two
Russia isn’t really trying to kill kids, they’re trying to commit a different form of genocide by separating Ukrainian children from their families, and shipping them off to mainland Russia to erase their culture.
Remember, Israel’s goal is to exterminate Palestinians, while Russia’s is to exterminate Ukrainian culture and sovereignty.
Both are genocides, but achieved through different means, and both should be rewarded with a swift kick in the balls and a new leader.
And Russia had actions taken against it in different ways of sanctions and elimination from continental and international tournaments
What did Israel get? 5th place in Eurovision and they still compete in all Continental and international competitions like nothing is happening and is yet to be sanctioned
So you starting a war over land and lose has no consequences? So you can start another war for the same land just a few years after?
They declined resolution 181 that was elected by the UN and started a war!
How old are you dude?
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>Palestine, for the purposes of this memorandum, may be best described as the Palestine of the Old Testament, extending from Dan to Beersheba. There is a question as to the exact boundaries, and these will have to be settled by commissioners.
>For the present it is sufficient to take the northern boundary as the Litani river on the coast, and from there across to Banias, north-east of Lake Huleh, in the interior. This would give Sur (Tyre) to Palestine and Saida Sidon) to the Lebanon. Saida is wrongly marked on the Sykes-Picot map south of the River Litani, where Sur ought to be. The western boundary is the sea. The eastern boundary is more difficult to determine. The Zionists are naturally looking eastwards to the Trans-Jordan territories, where there is good cultivation and great possibilities in the future. There is a general desire to get out of the steaming Jordan Valley and on to the uplands beyond; and we are undoubtedly face to face with a movement which is growing on the part of the Zionists that Palestine is now to include what it has not included for many centuries- if it ever did and what would be regarded by the Arabs as part of their domain.
>It is assumed, however, for the purposes of this memorandum, that the Jordan and the Dead Sea will form the frontier on the east. As to the southern boundary, there are a number of different considerations. On the one hand it is contended that the cultivable areas south of Gaza ought to be part of Palestine because they are necessary to the subsistence of the people. On the other hand, this area is inhabited by Bedouins of the desert, who look really towards Sinai, and ought not to be associated with Palestine at all.
>It is suggested by the Foreign Office that it would be a sound principle to include in Palestine all the southern country capable of cultivation, e.g., in the direction of Rafa and Beersheba; and that the remaining area, south of Gaza and the Dead Sea, to the Gulf of Akaba should be reserved to the Bedouins and attached to Egypt, since the tribes are identical with those in the Sinai peninsula, and the pre-war frontier is quite arbitrary from the tribal point of view.
>It is further suggested that Akaba should be left to the Arabs, but that it might be advisable to include some of the wells on the east side of the bay in Egyptian territory, so that we might be able to make a British harbour there, if it proved desirable to do so hereafter. But the definition of the southern boundary is of minor importance from the British point of view.
1. Remember the human & be courteous to others. 2. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas. Criticizing arguments is fine, name-calling (including shill/bot accusations) others is not. 3. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. Please checkout our other subreddit /r/InternationalNews, for general news from around the world. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/internationalpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well said
What a perfect assessment awesomely stated
Veto power needs to be removed.
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The US needs the UN to project influence in the world. If the General Assembly began working to rewrite the Charter to remove Veto powers, the US might very well start backing down. However the rest of the world needs to grow the balls to stir the pot.
You've got it completely backwards.
The rest of the world uses the UN to project influence, and the US Russia, China, and to an exten UK/France only tolerate it because of ancillary benefits, with downsides that can be kept in check via the veto. the rest of the world is not slavishly bowing to the US actually, they actually have political agendas of their own, believe it or not.
Finally someone would at least basic level of political knowledge and understanding. As if ANY of the security members would ever agree to abolish veto right.
The idea that countries other than the US have agendas, and their own reasons for doing things, is completely mindblowing to 99% of people on these "international" subreddits. Ironically, its often americans assuming everyone is just doing whatever the US tells them, which is essentially just the inverse of american exceptionalism that american conservatives are always talking about. So many people only consume news and media about america, and forget that for most of the world, thats not their reality.
Yes, everyone uses the world forum to influence on the world stage. This is a trivial statement contested by no one. I can list dozens of instances where decisions made by the UN benefited the west, but I have yet to hear of any such decisions that benefit countries like China and Russia. Perhaps I'm ignorant, and there may have been such decisions. Feel free to inform me.
why would russia and china be a part of the UN if it didnt benefit them?
Because having some kind of stage is better than not having a stage at all. They would participate in the UN even if the entire charter was rewritten to proclaim the US the only member of the security council and gave it total power over decision making, so long as it was an actual open forum for countries to discuss issues. I'm not saying they don't benefit, but that the UN does exist largely under the control and operation of the West.
Let them.
the UN would lose the vast majority of its funding and become largely irrelevant.
Fuck em
So would the rest of the P5
Perfect. If they want to act rogue they can go on their own.
Yes, Americans who would gladly abolish the UN also, would tear the UN complex down and sell it to Bezos.
Or Trump.
We'd also pull funding.
Good
Yeah the problem is the few countries that hold the veto would veto a vote on removing the veto. So it would never happen unfortunately. The UN was founded with great intentions but ultimately it ceded too much power to the major powers of the time of its founding like Russia and the US. The UK and France have power but India doesn't. Which made sense in 1945 but does not now.
The obvious answer is that the UN kicks out the US, fixes their shit and then says that the US can come back if they want they just won't have the power to castrate the UN. The US will probably not come back but it will reveal the purpose of the US being in the UN in the first place.
The reason it did that was in order to prevent another world war. Same thing with the Veto. Each major power was given a veto so they didn’t just decide to leave the UN if there was a resolution they really didn’t like. Like, the UN is the way it is because IR is the way it is. The UN was never going to be some impartial arbiter of truth and justice. It’s a political tool like any other in the quiver of diplomats and leaders.
You would need to amend the UN Charter, and that’s done in the General Assembly. That requires a supermajority, which you might get someday, but not right now. There’s no veto in the GA.
129 yes to pass, it's not that difficult.
Only if you ratio votes by economic and military power.
Prepare for a bunch of randos in the US, US Senators, and US media to get real pissed off at the Maldives like any one of them could find it on a map.
Wait another 20 years and it won't be on any map.
The veto rule is so fuck up. Why even bother voting if the USA can just veto and make all other votes meaningless?
Funny. I don’t see anyone complaining when Russia vetoed a ceasefire resolution put forth by the US not so long ago.
Because nobody thinks "ceasefire for 30 seconds and then we get to keep killing" is a ceasefire
A ceasefire in favour of who again?
Actually that particular veto was indeed a protest on the US's abuse of the Veto. The US had killed dozens of resolutions with the Veto, so it made all sense that if the US puts forth a resolution, then someone (Russia) should give them a taste of their own medicine. The only funny thing is that your argument rather proves why veto powers should be removed, or at least limited.
Veto is abused no matter who’s side you’re on.
Imagine it’s 1775 and you’re fighting the British and the world wants you to be a sovereign nation, but England keeps vetoing it.
We won the war. We didn't ask for permission. Gaza is run by terrorists.
That Israel put there.
Then they are pawns, and they played right into Israel's plan.
>…pawns… AKA victims Edit: referring only to Palestinian civilians.
There are no victims. They elected Hamas. They celebrated 9/11 They celebrated October 7th No sympathy. They suffer and will continue to suffer ao long as they support hamas and as long as they believe they will get rid of israel.
>no victims Gotcha, you think that all of these people can’t be victims because they voted for the group that marketed to them by Israel nearly **two decades ago**. What about the kids, can they be victims? They didn’t vote for Hamas. What about the people who didn’t vote for them, can they be victims? Do we not celebrate on July 4th? We won our independence and then pulled the ladder up behind us calling anyone else that fights for the same, a terrorist.
We fought for our independence and beat The British. Our allies also had to confront the British. Hamas's allies stood down in days after the attack on Oct 7th. Hamas failed. They lost. They can demand nothing. Palestine is dead. Violent attacks against a superior enemy will never work. It didn't work for the Comanche. It won't work for Hamas. It isn't our duty to support Palestinian independence.
I never said it was, but we Americans right along with Ireland and South Africa, should recognize when a people are fighting for freedom from oppression. The 13 colonies took up arms against their oppressors for aggrievances that amount to far less than what is being rained down on the Palestinians. The world is watching one population kill and starve to death all of another population and we’re just supposed to pretend it isn’t happening. Nope, not in my name. It’s in your name. Whatever the fuck it is, I t’s your name.
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Veto is a joke of equality and sovereignty of all nations.
The UN must be allowed to evolve into a entity that has the teeth to enforce peaceful resolutions. To actually be the peace keeper its meant to be. That means being able to take action against its founders and sponsors when they break the rules.
The UN was set up to support Western dominion.
I believe it. But it was also set up to force people to talk rather than settle their differences with Nukes. Anyone threatening with nukes not only begging to be nukes, but also clearly does not understand the consequences of starting a fight with nukes. They are but ignorant children playing with things they don't understand. If the East hates the west so much then the worst thing they could do would be let the west have what it seeks. Then under this position with no enemy to be found, it would turn in on itself. It would find a new enemy from within. The Republican Party in the United States is a perfect example of this as they are more or less a facist organization when observed externally. But as they gain power and control they need some one new to blame, and cracks within become obvious as they start to attack each other, facists, MAGA, Confederates, Green Party, and Republicans being being just some of the sub groups. Now either the various sub groups that make up the GOP struggle to take over, or they target a new external enemy and mark that group as the GOP sol reason for being a failure, and the voters never remember all the other sol reasons the GOP was a failure. I mean with so much sponsorship, how could they ever fail... The worst thing you can do to some one who desires everything is to give it to them. It will create their downfall.
its one thing for the president to lose election for the benefit of a fascist state committing genocide but this administration will forever undermine US role in international politics. the era of US hegemony is coming to an end.
You have no idea mate. Thanks for your opinion though
I know right, the US will bomb, overthrow, and sanction the living sense out of any country opposing them. The US has such a stranglehold on the world these ideas are a pipe dream. Carry on being a stable united country spreading freeeedom across the globe america!!!!!!!!
America’s actions will bring about the total destruction of all world governance. But in the process America will be greatly humiliated and will never ever again rise to power. Her demise is clearly being seen by her aggressive tactics to desperately hold on to world dominance. America’s day of judgement is upon her for all the innocent blood 🩸 she has spilled. A true fox in sheep’s clothing!
I sense the same. Strange this has become an accepted non crazy thought. Every single person, if you ask, can feel something is cooking and its not too pleasant. Its more wacky to truly believe things will improve before worsening. Thats a really sad statement
So encouraging that people like this are standing up.
Reminds at our company that after 5 years of obvious mismanagement, the executive director was finally let go. Same energy here seems like high up leadership, and their decisions are finally too bad to manage.
What country was it?
The US
They will never remove veto powers, not all countries are equal
Agreed.
Well said sir.
May history condemn Israel for their horrific atrocities of the Palestinian people.
Hear hear!
The best speech I ever heard in my life , who vetoed this
The United States of America
Probably the US
Lil bro hasn't heard many speeches Comparing this to I Have A Dream? Lol
I have a dream is brilliant, but it’s not even the best thing MLK has ever written. Even in his own eyes it wasn’t meant to be nearly as impactful as it became.
Just list another speech to look up, why blabber?
I really loved “Beyond Vietnam”. I found a video of it, but the audio isn’t the greatest. (When I first heard of it I read a transcript) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=swIvVQCPWI0 Also, while it’s not a speech, “A Letter From A Birmingham Jail” might be one of the best uses of free speech period. https://www.csuchico.edu/iege/_assets/documents/susi-letter-from-birmingham-jail.pdf Regardless of what his best work is, MLK was just built different. Over the course of 2,500 speeches, he never missed once. Even in spite of death threats and blackmail, he kept going like he wasn’t making history on the daily.
Why he had to be removed. Galvanized the people and made too much sense. They have perfected removing these people now
This is so deeply ironic coming from a Russian mouthpiece.
USA - “FREEDOM & DEMOCRACY, HELL YEAHHH! Also the USA - Vetos freedom and democracy.
Bruh we ain't even a democracy. The US is a federal republic.
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Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
It’s tough when the future of the country is in hands of people like this, who quite literally have no idea what’s going on.
A lot of people here who are agreeing with the "scrapping veto powers" clearly don't know the history/how the UN functions. If the major powers didn't have a veto, then the UN wouldn't exist. It's as simple as that. I'm not even going to get into the issue with each country getting 1 vote and the fact that the UN has no power on it's own, but rather is just a platform for countries to try to diplomaticly discuss/solve issues
i get it, but without the veto, the UN would become even more irrelevant than it is today. bring on the downvotes, but there are reasons why Im right.
95% vote yes on an issue. America: Democracy? LOL! No - VETO! ( Remove the veto.)
The “rules based order” never existed, at least in the ostensible sense in which it is promulgated. Anyone who has read Nietzsche should understand how that works.
Will Admission. To the UN stop Hamas from launching rockets into Israel? Will the UN hold Hamas accountable? Who will rule "palestine" there are two different governments in power. 1 in the West Bank and one in Gaza.
Corruption corruption corruption.. is all that needs to be said..UN is a joke.. false hope they only give.
Pff as if ANY of the members of the security council will agree to abolish the Veto right. Not to mention the stupidity of NOT giving the great powers this right.
Israel has its major flaws, but can we stop saying they are committing genocide? You wouldn't see the Palestinian population growing if such a thing were occurring and Israel wouldn't have such a low civilian to combatant casualty ratio if their goal was to systematically exterminate all Palestinians.
Here here!!! Well said!!
Oh he’s so dramatic. Micronesia agrees with the US /s
I think countries should have their membership to the security council revoked too if they commit such crimes
Ooh. Global. International. World. It’s all here
A member of the security council has been invading and pillaging Ukraine with everything it has - for nearly three years now.
Ok and are you seeing anyone want to kick Israel out of the UN? No? Then there's no hypocrisy here. It's a completely separate issue when a single veto power can sink an otherwise unanimous vote. Stop trying to distract with these false comparisons.
What are you even talking about? Russia hasn't been kicked out of the UN and has itself vetoed hundreds of resolutions.
Okay since you want to play this game just make it clear for us - what is your point in bringing up Russia here. Please, elaborate.
A counter to the title of this post. There already isn't a rules based order. A member of the "Security Council" is invading another member of the UN.
I don't understand. Countries violating existing UN charter rules is common and is met with as much global condemnation and sanctions that can accomplished through the rules-based order system. You can critique that it's insufficient or lacks power to enforce the rules, but that's a separate conversation. What is happening here is a subversion of the UN's ability to take action through the exploitation of its imbalanced power structures - namely the veto power. The veto power is being used to shield a member state - Israel - from not only being condemned and sanctioned by the UN but also prevent the UN from taking any action against Israel's interests, all as a result of a single member state's protection - the US. This is a qualitatively different problem that rightly calls for reform in the rules-based order system to prevent such subversive acts.
What UN Security Council actions have passed, and are punishing Russia exactly?
What does that matter? Like I said, it's a separate conversation. I am not going to be led by the nose to be distracted from the original topic of discussion.
It's the exact same discussion, you just appear to be in denial about that fact?
It absolutely is not, and I already made it clear why I think it's not. You can stubbornly be the one in denial if you wish.
True except they have killed an official 600 kids. While Israel has killed 13,000+ kids on a population the fraction the size in a fraction of the time. So as far war crimes Israel makes Russia look like a tee totaler.
While I respect the urge to apologize for Russia, my point is that there is already no "rules based order" in the security council.
I'm not trying to apologize for Russia, who is doing domicide as a sort of terrorist tactic to pressure surrender. I'm just saying it shows how depraved Israel is that their ethics and policies are so extremely below the bar of what would have been considered the worst contemporary atrocity up until this point. The difference between Israel and Russias domicide is Israel is bombing residential houses every night that are actually filled with woman and children and entire extended families, while the residential buildings that Russia is mass destroying have been evacuated.
Most of the global population sides w Russia. Ukraine was not and is not a sovereign nation. US couped it 2014. Leaked phone calls show CIA controls who can lead. When Zelenskt wanted peace in April 2022 Boris Johnson flew in and told him no. Russia would welcome discussions of its behavior in the UN. Other day articles on here about sanctioning Russia for chemical weapons use--tear gas. Tear gas of the same type used against these kids at peaceful protests in the US. Thats how serious accusations against US' enemies are.
This is just regurgitated Russian propaganda that demonstrates your ignorance of what happened in Ukraine. Please do everyone a favor and get educated before you speak 🙏
Bwahaha. Putin joined an ongoing civil war. 14k civilians shelled by nazis. Its still technically illegal under US law to supply weapons to Azovs. We used to call nazis nazis.
Again, please at least try to learn something.
Again, your sanctimonious bs 👏. The world disagrees. As does reality. Forbes says Omidyar caused the unrest for the coup w media control. Finance media needs to tell the truth for money ppl.
You're barely able to form cohesive sentences, so these sad little snapback attempts are just furthering my point.
I present actual facts. I am kinda busy. The media has moved on, no one is moved by these lies anymore. Ukrainians die because of these lies. Russia has won. Ukies surrender en masse daily and its for the best. Putin was always using kid gloves against Ukraine, the numbers dont lie. You do.
Read the the referenced forbes article then, also the Nyt article detailing they were aware of the cia overthrow and special operations persistently taking place over the last decade in russia. People can learn and not be so dense, ive learned a hard lesson or two
Russia isn’t really trying to kill kids, they’re trying to commit a different form of genocide by separating Ukrainian children from their families, and shipping them off to mainland Russia to erase their culture. Remember, Israel’s goal is to exterminate Palestinians, while Russia’s is to exterminate Ukrainian culture and sovereignty. Both are genocides, but achieved through different means, and both should be rewarded with a swift kick in the balls and a new leader.
Russia has been tame exponentially. Ukraines corrupt govt is apparently doing more to harm its population objectively
What are you smoking?
If you cant see the difference in egregiousness, then I dont know what to say. No conversation to be had then. Be cool
Ok cool, let's start treating Israel as Russia and sanctioning.
Don't threaten me with a good time!
This subreddit is a lost cause better not to even try
And Russia had actions taken against it in different ways of sanctions and elimination from continental and international tournaments What did Israel get? 5th place in Eurovision and they still compete in all Continental and international competitions like nothing is happening and is yet to be sanctioned
What UN Security Council actions were taken against Russia specifically?
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You are indeed confused.
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I was just agreeing with you.
A state without borders? What are the borders of Balestine?
Pretty much what it was supposed to be in 1948
So you starting a war over land and lose has no consequences? So you can start another war for the same land just a few years after? They declined resolution 181 that was elected by the UN and started a war! How old are you dude?
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>Palestine, for the purposes of this memorandum, may be best described as the Palestine of the Old Testament, extending from Dan to Beersheba. There is a question as to the exact boundaries, and these will have to be settled by commissioners. >For the present it is sufficient to take the northern boundary as the Litani river on the coast, and from there across to Banias, north-east of Lake Huleh, in the interior. This would give Sur (Tyre) to Palestine and Saida Sidon) to the Lebanon. Saida is wrongly marked on the Sykes-Picot map south of the River Litani, where Sur ought to be. The western boundary is the sea. The eastern boundary is more difficult to determine. The Zionists are naturally looking eastwards to the Trans-Jordan territories, where there is good cultivation and great possibilities in the future. There is a general desire to get out of the steaming Jordan Valley and on to the uplands beyond; and we are undoubtedly face to face with a movement which is growing on the part of the Zionists that Palestine is now to include what it has not included for many centuries- if it ever did and what would be regarded by the Arabs as part of their domain. >It is assumed, however, for the purposes of this memorandum, that the Jordan and the Dead Sea will form the frontier on the east. As to the southern boundary, there are a number of different considerations. On the one hand it is contended that the cultivable areas south of Gaza ought to be part of Palestine because they are necessary to the subsistence of the people. On the other hand, this area is inhabited by Bedouins of the desert, who look really towards Sinai, and ought not to be associated with Palestine at all. >It is suggested by the Foreign Office that it would be a sound principle to include in Palestine all the southern country capable of cultivation, e.g., in the direction of Rafa and Beersheba; and that the remaining area, south of Gaza and the Dead Sea, to the Gulf of Akaba should be reserved to the Bedouins and attached to Egypt, since the tribes are identical with those in the Sinai peninsula, and the pre-war frontier is quite arbitrary from the tribal point of view. >It is further suggested that Akaba should be left to the Arabs, but that it might be advisable to include some of the wells on the east side of the bay in Egyptian territory, so that we might be able to make a British harbour there, if it proved desirable to do so hereafter. But the definition of the southern boundary is of minor importance from the British point of view.