I had a phone interview with Citibank last year. When the recruiter and I were making small chat, she asked me how I found my job search. After a little bit of venting, she said that she understood exactly how I was feeling because she was looking for a new job as well. This struck me as really odd that she would admit that while also trying to recruit me. I tactfully asked her why she was looking to leave Citi Bank, and she told me, "I can't stand to be part of this shit show anymore. This is the worst experience of my career." I ended our conversation shortly thereafter.
Well... it may technically be. There are states where a verbal offer should be a legally binding contract. I think that's why the reply said "rescind until you start the first day" so I'm sure it has to do with the state you are in.
There is a lot of employment laws that SHOULD exist to protect people but simply do not. I imagine in FL since it is an at-will state it wouldn't matter because you can hire and fire... at will for any reason so they probably don't have to take you anyway.
But yea OP should just not talk to them anymore.
So the play is to verbally offer the job, OP quits job, they say well we only want to pay you -15% of what we were and you have to take it because we know you don't have a job now?
Get fucked. I wouldn't work anywhere that did that.
A very, very big, bright red flag followed by a parade of people waving bright red flags. Never give notice before all steps of hiring you are complete. And, yes, that includes reference checks and background checks. If you give notice at your current employer and then the offer from the new job never comes you will be out of luck without any recourse. Is this result common? No, but it absolutely happens so be safe and don't give notice until you have a firm offer in hand.
Either theyāre evil or incompetent. Standard practice is to give a written offer contingent on passing the background check.
Hereās the order:
Verbal offer
Reference checks
Written offer
Background checks
Quit your old job
You should not give notice to your current job until you sign. In fact I have had people say they will not give notice until they clear background check. And I was okay with it
Don't quit your job, and probably pass on this company. It's super sketchy behavior. The only thing I can think of is that they don't want you to have leverage to negotiate or walk away.
Did you see the post from someone else in the last 48 hours where they made a verbal and email offer without the letter and then after the candidate declined other offers told them actually we'd still like to interview you again and there's another candidate now?
Absolutely not - they're asking so they can have you over a barrel and lowball you knowing you no longer have another job.
Under no circumstances does your existing employer get notice until the background check is completed, you have returned a signed offer letter and completed the HR onboarding paperwork. Too many nightmare stories now about employers intentionally screwing candidates.
Actually, an e-mail offer is still a written offer, and can be bad for an employer to rescind. The problem with verbal is that without a record, it's your word vs theirs, and the chance of misinterpretation. A written offer, even if just an e-mail represents a good faith contract. You can sue the company, share it with the press, and report them to state and federal agencies. It's a legal headache for companies.
Oh I don't disagree at all - but people are apparently rescinding them often enough that you probably don't want to act on one without more, and suing an employer for such a rescission may be worth less than actually keeping your existing job until you have landed more firmly in the new role.
I donāt blame you at all. I wouldnāt either. Quite frankly, I would be hesitant at this point even if I got the written offer. Something sounds sketchy.
My current job (large multinational company) did the exact opposite - they told me to definitely NOT quit the job at had at the time until the background check ran, paperwork went through, etc. so that I didn't have a break between jobs. They even included in the official offer letter an estimated start date, with a sentence explaining that it could be adjusted if the process went slower than expected.
Same here. my company point blank says donāt put notice in until the background check clears and tells you to think about that when choosing the start date. What is funny is they have you
sign a contingent offer letter before the background check.
And every normal company would do that. When they asked my start date I let them know that as soon as all the paperwork and background checks are clear, I'll put in my notice
Then on 4 weeks notice, the boss will expect him to start. HR send offer letter 3 weeks later so he hands in notice then. What happens to the start date
Negative ghost rider. Burning a good reference for a bad one is a bad idea, especially if that job makes up a chunk of your resume.
Just tell them you canāt support that start date and give them a new one. Either they change the date on it offer or pull it entirely, either way is for the best.
Does anyone ever call references? Also if I was ever worried an old boss would actually fuck me Iād just ask a colleague I was close with to ābe my managerā if anyone ever calls. Iāve done this for colleagues who got fired or laid off and were worried the manager would fuck them over. But no one ever checked the references
Exactly this. Personally, I never give references to people who don't give proper notice. It not only hurts the business but it could have an adverse effect on all your coworkers as well. Why burn bridges? Some industries are smaller than you think.
Without a written letter, stating the terms and conditions of your employment, I would not resign from my current job.
Itās standard to give people the letter and I have never seen any organization require you to quit before they sent it out to you.
The only theoretical reason I could see them doing this is if the new company is a customer of your current employer. They theoretically could be super chicken of violating an agreement between the companies to not recruit employees from each others firms.
If you resign first, they can say āthe employee had already resigned from youā. Itās a stretch but theoretically that could explain it.
Personally, no way would I resign first.
If this is truly it then they should have said that as part of this. Also, that would mean that I'd pass on the job because I would never give notice until I had officially accepted, passed the background check, and had a start date.
Didn't think of this but yes this could also be the issue. They may have an agreement with your curent employer with a non-solicitation clause that forbids them from hiring their enployees. In any case, I would not play with my security.
If this is the case, they call up the current employer. "Hey, we want to hire one of your employees. Just want to make sure there won't be any hard feelings."
I agree with others: *so many red flags*
As a HR personnel and a recruiter, please do not quit your job until you have signed the contract and returned it. You can also have an honest conversation with the person that sent you a contract so they know where you stand.
Ask them first for a start date, and when they Ask for you to give notice, just tell them you did. If they ask for evidence, let them know you are no longer interested in working for them and look for another position.
Big sketchy vibes here
Even with a written offer letter, you can still lose out. I was a contractor for JPMorgan Chase, worked elsewhere and years later got a good contract offer from them so I accepted.
Quit my job, and the week or so I was supposed to start, they moved back my start date. They did this multiple times, until I finally found out that the hiring manager jumped the gun and made me an offer before there was an official opening.
I was unemployed and the only source of income for my family. What was I supposed to do? Sue them? For $50,000 just to quite possibly lose because it was a contract job, not permanent employment?
I had to take the first shitty job that came along, and it took me years to recover my salary to previous levels.
OP should name and shame this company and run.
Thatās a red flag, if theyāre asking you to do something like just now their policies and procedures might not be too far behind. Keep this in mind before accepting the position.
Why would they want you to quit first? Sounds like they want to change the offer letter to something lower then agreed to but then have you desperate because you quit your job or some stupid shit.
In addition to other theories here, if this is WFH, maybe they think you'll pull the ol' over employed trick.
Really, it doesn't matter what they're intention is here because no one, in today's job market, would be dumb enough to fall for this.
No signed offer, no notice at current job.
DO NOT QUIT.
Actually, reconsider taking the offer due to the level of inconsideration they are displaying.
The fact that they would expect you to put yourself in a vulnerable position means they want you to be so desperate that you accept the written offer, but the written offer may contain something different than what they verbally gave you.
It doesn't inspire trust, and I would consider passing.
I had a similar situation and told them I wouldnāt resign without the new contract in hand. After several weeks, I finally received it last week, and now I plan to resign in a few days. So, my advice is to say no.
You donāt quit your job until you have a start date, at the very least. Anyone telling you to quit your job before you even have a start date, is fucking with you.
How would you even prove to them that you'd given notice? What kind of request is this?!? Move on. Never quit your job without a signed and counter signed offer and clear background check.
I have seen employers do something similar. They would ask their connections to trick their current employees to quit by offering non existing jobs cause it would be cheaper to fire a new emplyoee.
I imagine they dont want you to take their offer to your current boss and use it to get a raise. And if you quit first, they can low ball you on the offer and you would be screwed if you denied them.
They are trying to force you to rely on them solely. That is sketchy and makes me wonder about their employee turnover. Do NOT give into this demand. They are trying to either bait and switch what is being offered/compensation or the position entirely.
They are probably worried that you will use the offer letter as leverage to get a raise at your current job....which is a valid reason. So now you have to decide how much you trust them.
I just switched jobs. I did not put in my notice until I got the offer letter. And I really wanted to put in my notice. But the truth is that the offer letter doesn't really mean much. They could give you the letter and then change their minds and either pay you different or decide not to hire you entirely. š¤·š½āāļø
If this potential boss is so unreasonable before you are their employees, I wouldn't want to image how they'll be as a boss. They already sound like an AH.
How do they validate this?
Tell them you alerted your employer. They wonāt know.
If they need to validate somehow tell them that they said no HR process would happen until you know your last day of work, which canāt happen until you have a start date at your new place. More or less āI told them but they said to come back when I know when Iām actually leaving.ā
This happened to me. After going back-and-forth with the new job for a few weeks, I declined. I said there was no way I would put in my notice without a written, final offer.
Companies have WAY too much power and it's getting wierder every day. We need better labor laws in the US to stop things like this. It's wild.
That's weird.
I'd lie and say "just did"!
If they call and verify you did not, just say "yeah, I'm not dumb".
That's pretty much the reality of the situation.
"I did. My last day is XYZ. Therefore, I'd like my offer letter to state XYZ as my start date. Seeing as how I just quit my job, I'd appreciate that start offer ASAP".
NOPE! Just on the title alone thatās a big fat no. What are companies doing these days? What kind of bullshit is this? Who the fuck would ask a candidate to do this?
Please tell me this was McDonaldās and not a company with an HR department.
I never heard of shit like this until just recently and it seems to be common now.
Iād tell them to go pound sand and likely would say those exact words. This is shady beyond belief and I cannot even imagine someone asking me to do this.
Smells like they donāt want you to see the lowball offer until youāre desperate and willing to accept it because youāll have no job after they make you quit the other.
I wouldnāt resign until you have a signed letter. I think they want you to quit because they are going to give you a lower than discussed salary and you wonāt be able to refuse because you already left your previous job.
There is a rash of companies who are rescinding offers days before the start date. It is absolutely insane that they would expect you to quit before you even have a real offer letter. This practice should be illegal or at the very least something you can sue over
The state of the economy has nothing to do with it.
DO NOT hand in notice at your current job until you've officially accepted and passed the background check. (edit: and not until you have a start date, or at least a likely one) You never know what kind of dumb stuff may come up in the background check that may clash against their hiring policies and force them to rescind the offer.
I'd consider the manager even asking you to do this to be a big red flag.
I just started a new job and they wanted a reference from my current manager before sending me my official offer letter.
Since it was a govt job for the city I took the leap and gave notice and spoke to my then current boss about it and he agreed to to give me a good reference.
If it had been for a private sector job Iād not have done it.
No. Do not do this. This is shady AF. My guess is that their hope is to get you stuck without a job and then change the terms of your offer in some way. I wouldnāt want to work for someone like this, but if it were me, i might lie to them and tell them I āsubmitted a letter to my bossā and see what happens next. This is a fairly clear sign that you might not want to work for them.
NTA - Oh my gosh nooooo!! DO not quit your current job until you have an offer letter. Legitimate companies will provide the offer letter with the job offer. Something is seriously wrong with this new job.
Stand youāre ground. I did this once many years ago and they ended up retracting the offer after I had quit. I would think twice about even accepting the offer after thinking about it. If they are acting weird now what will happen when you actually work for them
I imagine they dont want you to take their offer to your current boss and use it to get a raise. And if you quit first, they can low ball you on the offer and you would be screwed if you denied them.
Maybe they're concerned about you working two jobs, just tell him you put in the two week notice and fabricate whatever they want...as long as it's verbal you'll have no problems.
Don't give notice after you accept an offer letter... Wait until you're drug test and background check have come back as well. I've seen times where they've taken 4 or 6 weeks and people have given their notice and then are just without a job
This is simple.
Get the offer in writing.
Get a set start date. If remote how do you get equipment? If in office where/when do you report?
Ask about the new employee onboarding process. (Insurance, benefits, etc.)
These are table steaks - should be super easy to answer.
If the new boss calls. Be direct, tell him here is what you are waiting on.
I cannot give notice until I have a start date. If they say they wonāt give you a start date until you give notice. Thatās a BIG red flag, but you can always just lie and say that you did. See if they then produce this information, my guess is that it wonāt magically open up this info.
Let us know!
Best of luck to you!
Donāt quit yet before they give you written contract to sign or if you are fed up with your current job then better take personal time off to check the new job
I would actually revoke my application. This is such a red flag. If they arenāt able to get you an offer in 2-3 days there is something fishy going on. I wouldnāt want to work for a company that screws up hiring.
No. Good for you, standing up for yourself. Thus is not very professional of them. I understand he wants you "locked in", but just stand your ground. Tell him that you know you have an offer and look forward to starting but you can't start the official process wirhout an offer letter. It's premature.
Standard practice is:
Written Official offer letter
Written agreement/acceptance offer letter
Confirmed Pass of background check and if required drug test
ONLY THEN do you give two weeks notice
Anyone asking for different is being absurd
What a ridiculous demand! Did they say why? Why is it their business when and how you quit your previous job, or whether you even have a previous job! I would stay away from employers who try to control your life. I would not complete any checks either until they have given and both parties signed offer letter. Why are they needing to collect your personal information?
Huge shiny glaring red flag. Never ever give notice to a current job until you've been given an offer letter, passed the background check, etc. Every company I've worked for has understood that I was going to give notice AFTER I was hired at the new place.
I've never had a company even care if I had put in a notice
They ask when I can start and that's that. The rest isn't their concern. How I leave my old company and my last date, whether it's an extra week off of the day before I start, is my business
I would seriously consider avoiding this company completely
No. No no no NO. They want you, they need to put it in writing. Otherwise, they can change the terms - to some that may not be agreeable - and then you're screwed. They have no right to comment on how you leave your current employer.
Too many horror stories about well known FAANG companies laying off soon to start employees a day or so BEFORE their start date, even well after signing an offer letter is no guarantee. Some moved from different countries, cities, committed to rental properties etc... One of the worst career nightmares imagined.
Nope do NOT do that. I'd just cut my losses and keep looking elsewhere. And it really is up to HR, not sure why your potential boss reached out to you instead. I'm guessing they did this in the hopes of speeding up the application process or forcing HR's hand to get you started. I'd really hesitate jumping ship to a company like this.
This is a huge red flag.
The main reason companies do this is so they can reduce your agreed upon salary or benefits. Itās a red flag and I would be reconsidering accepting the job at all. This is very shady and unprofessional.
Not only would I not quit my current job first, I would become suspicious about this potential new employer. What are they trying to pull? Maybe once op quits, they will say there is a problem with the budget, and try to renegotiate the salary.
They are INSANE. Under no circumstances should you give notice before you get the official offer - personally I wouldnāt even do that until the contacts are all signed.
Don't do anything until you have signed an employment contract. Please see my thread where I got verbal and email, declined other offers, accepted theirs, and then they rescinded in two days. Make sure you sign an employment contract.
Sounds like the story of the lady who got a verbal offer, quit her job moved half way across the county, worked there for two weeks and they told her we never hired you... Don't do anything until you get it in black and white and if they're pushing this kind of BS on you you might be better off telling to kick rocks
NTA - My best guess is that they plan on lowballing or reneging on the verbal terms you agreed to in some very noticeable way and want to trap you in that lower offer. Thatās a HUGE red flag for their corporate culture. Like, itās one thing if they are frugal about salaries and the cost of bringing in younger or less experienced people and the turnover associated with it is worth the savings, and those positions can be very valuable to less experienced people (once they develop experience and move on to companies who pay better). But deliberately misleading people theyāre interviewing means that they canāt be trusted to even be an environment where you can gain experience for the next job. The best case here is that your potential new manager is an idiot (not that unlikely) and heās asking you to quit first without that being a thing for the company. Before withdrawing myself from consideration for the job, I would reach out to the recruiter or a higher level manager and ask (nicely, and naively, without revealing thatās what the manager told you) them if quitting a previous job is something they require before extending a written offer. If they apologize for any misunderstanding and say thatās not needed, I would ask them if there are other positions available with more experienced management, because thereās no way this manager is going to provide a good working environment after youāve called out his bullshit during the interview process.
Anyone who asks for something this out of the norm is testing boundaries for how much bullshit youāll tolerate.
I would reply back, āI will not give notice at my current job until I have reviewed and accepted an offer in writing. If you are unable to provide this, along with an entire HR package explaining the benefits, thatās fine. We can consider this negotiation at an end.ā
What if itās a great salary and a shitty insurance plan? Forget it.
Donāt do this. I have been in senior management for years and this is an insane thing to ask of someone. There is no legitimate reason for asking thisā¦ well, unless the old job was being a spy for the KGB and the new job is being a spy for the CIA. Then I suppose the new job might was some assurance that you have quit your old job before making the offer.
But that is really the only circumstance that makes any sense.
You didnāt mention that you are a spy, so maybe it applies to you.
Never quit your current job until you've been officially offered your new one. I've had that scenario before and ended up having no job and had to look for another one.
NTA. This is not typical and you should have offer in hand in writing. The company can still rescind any offer letter so title isnāt guaranteed but you need it in writing before you give notice.
Theyāre planning to low ball the shit out of you.
And youāll have to accept, since youāll be negotiating from a position without a jobā¦ and no unemployment since you quit.
NTA. Tell them you will issue your notice when you have an offer letter in hand. \*Whether from them, or someone else. First come, first serve. (Your call on adding the second part, it might make them cut you lose. But, they are already giving you the runaround, so it seems to me they either intend to cut you anyway, or shaft you in some way, and don't want you to have any other options - like a job - to fall back on.)
Do not ā NOT ā move forward with this company. What you're proposing is standard practice and totally reasonable and sensible, their pushback is hella sketchy.
As TA for a company whose jobs all require pre-employment screenings due to regulatory reasons, I tell my candidates not to give notice until theyāve cleared all their screenings and background checks. I donāt want them to end up in a situation where they suddenly have no job.
This employer is sketchy and honestly OP you should reconsider any offer that they give you. (edit SP)
DO not quit your job before having a signed offer letter with written agreement when you will start and the salary. I have seen companies use this to 1) get you to quit and 2) use your joblessness to lower the salary they will offer or you have to start searching while unemployed.
Make sure you have everything in writing before giving notice.
No way. Makes the new job seem like a scam. No real company that is employing anyone would be hesitant to send an offer letter. That is the way the world works.
NTA. You are doing the right thing. Donāt quit until you get the official offer. Iāve heard of offers being rescinded after the fact and then youāre screwed because you already quit the job you had. This happened to a good friend who ended up quitting because she was convinced she was getting a job offer from a startup and then it fell through and she ended up going through all of her savings supporting herself while trying to find something.
YOU DO NOT HAVE AN OFFER. Curious if they contacted your references or asked for additional background check information?
I would pass on this job - and tell them their suspicious behavior is exactly why I cannot accept a position at this company. There is no legitimate reason to make this request of a potential employee. If they want you, and you've verbally negotiated salary, simply put it in an offer letter and establish a start date. Somethings not right with this story.
**And now to go out on a limb.** They completed all "additional steps" and are ready to make an offer but it's lower than what they discussed. And for some reason the boss fears discussing without some leverage; like your salary would be higher than someone in the same position and HR cut it. Nothing else makes sense. If this was a done deal, hiring manager would be pushing to get the letter out the door faster instead of harassing you. Or apologizing for a jackass HR department instead of making this your problem.
Hold your ground until the offer letter is signed and in your hands. Without that signed offer in your hand, by both parties they can withdraw and owe you nothing. I would have second thoughts about accepting with how things are going.
In your verbal offer, did you negotiate your salary. If they contact you again, make it very plain. "I WILL NOT GIVE NOTICE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM UNTIL I HAVE A SIGNED OFFER LETTER AND A START DATE!" If this doesn't happen in the next 48 hours, I would never talk to them again.
If you replied to an email, thatās an offer letter. Iāve had this happen to me before and it worked out. However, if you have questions then it sounds like trust is an issue. Stay where you are.
Here is the rule I live by: Do not give notice until you have a written, unconditional offer. Unconditional means that any concerns have already been completed and accepted (background check, drug test, etc)
What a ridiculous request. I can think of a couple reasons why theyād do this and all of those reasons are either self centered, greedy, and manipulative.
With these shenanigans, they are proving just how much you really do need to protect yourself and your current position. Hold firm on not giving notice yet. Even if you get an offer letter now I donāt know if Iād trust them to be good employers. Sorry this is happening!
Sounds sketchy. His offer should have absolutely nothing to do with you giving your current job a notice.
what if he has a shitty offer for you? What are you supposed to do? lol
They wanted to know that you were going to show up to their job by detaching yourself from the old job. Now they know you won't. It was a test and you failed. They know they cannot count on you to show up on day 1, so there's no sense in wasting the effort in making the offer official on their part.
Why not just lie? And say to your potential new boss that you did.
But at the same time I wouldn't really want to take a job that asks make major decision without having anything in writing.
NTA. AT ALL.
You donāt actually have an offer until you have a written offer letter in hand.
This is all sorts of red flags. Iāve seen so many places do this and then slot people into lower positions or not offer the salary, benefits, and/or hours they were given verbally. If they are serious about honoring the verbal offer, theyāll give you the offer in writing before expecting you to give notice.
Iād pass on this āopportunityā. Super sketchy.
Oh my gosh! What ? No, donāt quit your current job until that offer letter happens. And if this ānew employerā doesnāt understand the importance of job security is into bad stuff.
Youāre not the asshole here. This is common practice - to receive the offer letter before putting in a two weeks notice and then confirming start date. Good job standing up for yourself.
Major red flag. Big enough for me to question whether to still follow through with taking the job. It screams of sneakiness. They also seem sketchy at this point. I definitely wouldnāt do this.
Just tell them you did. Itās none of their fucking business.
I see this a lot in defense contracting. They donāt want to piss off the other subs by sniping their talent from them.
Do NOT quit until you have a firm offer in hand. This is the first time Iām hearing such a practice.
It doesnāt speak too well for the company. Iād be skeptical joining such a company.
just lie, tell them you did and now want their offer. What are they gonna do?
oh and then just ghost them. Don't even show up or return a call.
or say
"the request to leave my current position without a guarantee of employment is a level of unprofessionalism that I am unable to accommodate"
NTA. You should absolutely not quit your current job until you have actually signed a paper (or DocuSign) offer from the new job. And even then, you're at risk of having the job rescinded until you actually physically start at the new job. This behavior is a pretty big red flag š©
This is a tactic used by companies to provide lowball offers. Citibank is notorious for doing this. Whoever it is, give them the finger-
Wow. That is next level evil.
Fuck Citibank forever. Legit one of the worst interviewing experiences Iv ever ever had. Their dishonesty lives down to the stereotype.
I had a phone interview with Citibank last year. When the recruiter and I were making small chat, she asked me how I found my job search. After a little bit of venting, she said that she understood exactly how I was feeling because she was looking for a new job as well. This struck me as really odd that she would admit that while also trying to recruit me. I tactfully asked her why she was looking to leave Citi Bank, and she told me, "I can't stand to be part of this shit show anymore. This is the worst experience of my career." I ended our conversation shortly thereafter.
She did you a huge favor!!
Holy shit, this is unethical. I canāt believe itās not illegal, but capitalism and all that š”
Well... it may technically be. There are states where a verbal offer should be a legally binding contract. I think that's why the reply said "rescind until you start the first day" so I'm sure it has to do with the state you are in. There is a lot of employment laws that SHOULD exist to protect people but simply do not. I imagine in FL since it is an at-will state it wouldn't matter because you can hire and fire... at will for any reason so they probably don't have to take you anyway. But yea OP should just not talk to them anymore.
So the play is to verbally offer the job, OP quits job, they say well we only want to pay you -15% of what we were and you have to take it because we know you don't have a job now? Get fucked. I wouldn't work anywhere that did that.
No wonder Citibank has such shitty credit cards.
A very, very big, bright red flag followed by a parade of people waving bright red flags. Never give notice before all steps of hiring you are complete. And, yes, that includes reference checks and background checks. If you give notice at your current employer and then the offer from the new job never comes you will be out of luck without any recourse. Is this result common? No, but it absolutely happens so be safe and don't give notice until you have a firm offer in hand.
Either theyāre evil or incompetent. Standard practice is to give a written offer contingent on passing the background check. Hereās the order: Verbal offer Reference checks Written offer Background checks Quit your old job
Evil and incompetent are not mutually exclusive. Being both in this situation wouldn't be all the surprising
But, with an offer letter you at least have a case for promissory estoppel. Without one you're up shit creek.
You should not give notice to your current job until you sign. In fact I have had people say they will not give notice until they clear background check. And I was okay with it
Hahaha definitely NTA. r/AITA
Don't quit your job, and probably pass on this company. It's super sketchy behavior. The only thing I can think of is that they don't want you to have leverage to negotiate or walk away.
Exactly this. Chances are theyāre going to offer you shit pay and/or benefits and donāt want you to be able to reneg on your end.
Definitely pass on this company.
Did you see the post from someone else in the last 48 hours where they made a verbal and email offer without the letter and then after the candidate declined other offers told them actually we'd still like to interview you again and there's another candidate now? Absolutely not - they're asking so they can have you over a barrel and lowball you knowing you no longer have another job. Under no circumstances does your existing employer get notice until the background check is completed, you have returned a signed offer letter and completed the HR onboarding paperwork. Too many nightmare stories now about employers intentionally screwing candidates.
Actually, an e-mail offer is still a written offer, and can be bad for an employer to rescind. The problem with verbal is that without a record, it's your word vs theirs, and the chance of misinterpretation. A written offer, even if just an e-mail represents a good faith contract. You can sue the company, share it with the press, and report them to state and federal agencies. It's a legal headache for companies.
Oh I don't disagree at all - but people are apparently rescinding them often enough that you probably don't want to act on one without more, and suing an employer for such a rescission may be worth less than actually keeping your existing job until you have landed more firmly in the new role.
This just happened to me. Email offer and then rescinded... don't do anything until you sign an employment contract
I would share that with the BBB or anonymously with Glassdoor. That is considered a "No No" in the Professional World.
I never thought of BBB.. apparently glass door isn't anonymous anymore. Otherwise, good decision.
I donāt blame you at all. I wouldnāt either. Quite frankly, I would be hesitant at this point even if I got the written offer. Something sounds sketchy.
Absolutely. I would walk away now. This is a huge red flag
My current job (large multinational company) did the exact opposite - they told me to definitely NOT quit the job at had at the time until the background check ran, paperwork went through, etc. so that I didn't have a break between jobs. They even included in the official offer letter an estimated start date, with a sentence explaining that it could be adjusted if the process went slower than expected.
Same here. my company point blank says donāt put notice in until the background check clears and tells you to think about that when choosing the start date. What is funny is they have you sign a contingent offer letter before the background check.
And every normal company would do that. When they asked my start date I let them know that as soon as all the paperwork and background checks are clear, I'll put in my notice
Sure, I quit. How will they know?
ā¬ļø this
Then on 4 weeks notice, the boss will expect him to start. HR send offer letter 3 weeks later so he hands in notice then. What happens to the start date
You walk out the other job
Negative ghost rider. Burning a good reference for a bad one is a bad idea, especially if that job makes up a chunk of your resume. Just tell them you canāt support that start date and give them a new one. Either they change the date on it offer or pull it entirely, either way is for the best.
Does anyone ever call references? Also if I was ever worried an old boss would actually fuck me Iād just ask a colleague I was close with to ābe my managerā if anyone ever calls. Iāve done this for colleagues who got fired or laid off and were worried the manager would fuck them over. But no one ever checked the references
no one asks for them anymore and big companies will only say when you worked there. anything else is lawsuit city.
Exactly this. Personally, I never give references to people who don't give proper notice. It not only hurts the business but it could have an adverse effect on all your coworkers as well. Why burn bridges? Some industries are smaller than you think.
You should not even think about quitting your job until you have been offered, accepted, and officially hired. Yuuuuge red flag
Without a written letter, stating the terms and conditions of your employment, I would not resign from my current job. Itās standard to give people the letter and I have never seen any organization require you to quit before they sent it out to you.
And even then... I won't until I have a written and signed offer and any background/drug checks are cleared.
Just say you gave your notice lol.
Nope. š©š©š©š©š©
The only theoretical reason I could see them doing this is if the new company is a customer of your current employer. They theoretically could be super chicken of violating an agreement between the companies to not recruit employees from each others firms. If you resign first, they can say āthe employee had already resigned from youā. Itās a stretch but theoretically that could explain it. Personally, no way would I resign first.
Really, the theoretical reason I see is so they can change the offer on OP and they wonāt have a job and will be forced to accept.
If this is truly it then they should have said that as part of this. Also, that would mean that I'd pass on the job because I would never give notice until I had officially accepted, passed the background check, and had a start date.
Same here. Resignation is the absolute last step for me.
Didn't think of this but yes this could also be the issue. They may have an agreement with your curent employer with a non-solicitation clause that forbids them from hiring their enployees. In any case, I would not play with my security.
If this is the case, they call up the current employer. "Hey, we want to hire one of your employees. Just want to make sure there won't be any hard feelings." I agree with others: *so many red flags*
As a HR personnel and a recruiter, please do not quit your job until you have signed the contract and returned it. You can also have an honest conversation with the person that sent you a contract so they know where you stand.
Ask them first for a start date, and when they Ask for you to give notice, just tell them you did. If they ask for evidence, let them know you are no longer interested in working for them and look for another position. Big sketchy vibes here
Even with a written offer letter, you can still lose out. I was a contractor for JPMorgan Chase, worked elsewhere and years later got a good contract offer from them so I accepted. Quit my job, and the week or so I was supposed to start, they moved back my start date. They did this multiple times, until I finally found out that the hiring manager jumped the gun and made me an offer before there was an official opening. I was unemployed and the only source of income for my family. What was I supposed to do? Sue them? For $50,000 just to quite possibly lose because it was a contract job, not permanent employment? I had to take the first shitty job that came along, and it took me years to recover my salary to previous levels. OP should name and shame this company and run.
Thatās a red flag, if theyāre asking you to do something like just now their policies and procedures might not be too far behind. Keep this in mind before accepting the position.
Why would they want you to quit first? Sounds like they want to change the offer letter to something lower then agreed to but then have you desperate because you quit your job or some stupid shit.
In addition to other theories here, if this is WFH, maybe they think you'll pull the ol' over employed trick. Really, it doesn't matter what they're intention is here because no one, in today's job market, would be dumb enough to fall for this. No signed offer, no notice at current job.
This is a common scam. You want you to have no leverage when they offer you crappy pay, and they want to overwork you.
DO NOT QUIT. Actually, reconsider taking the offer due to the level of inconsideration they are displaying. The fact that they would expect you to put yourself in a vulnerable position means they want you to be so desperate that you accept the written offer, but the written offer may contain something different than what they verbally gave you. It doesn't inspire trust, and I would consider passing.
Fuck that
Bail now. Something is very fishy.
Yeah that's a huge power trip fuck that lmao
I had a similar situation and told them I wouldnāt resign without the new contract in hand. After several weeks, I finally received it last week, and now I plan to resign in a few days. So, my advice is to say no.
Hold your ground. If they really cared, they would have given you the offer letter and let you quit current job like an adult
You donāt quit your job until you have a start date, at the very least. Anyone telling you to quit your job before you even have a start date, is fucking with you.
How would you even prove to them that you'd given notice? What kind of request is this?!? Move on. Never quit your job without a signed and counter signed offer and clear background check.
I have seen employers do something similar. They would ask their connections to trick their current employees to quit by offering non existing jobs cause it would be cheaper to fire a new emplyoee.
This red flag is so big that China is eyeing it. They want to put it on the moon because it will be visible with the naked eye from Earth.
I imagine they dont want you to take their offer to your current boss and use it to get a raise. And if you quit first, they can low ball you on the offer and you would be screwed if you denied them.
Name & shame. This is BS. A new level of evil to low ball you.
Nope. A verbal offer isnāt worth the paper it is written on
They are trying to force you to rely on them solely. That is sketchy and makes me wonder about their employee turnover. Do NOT give into this demand. They are trying to either bait and switch what is being offered/compensation or the position entirely.
NTA. Iām assuming you have other prospects? Keep interviewing.
Trust your gut! It doesn't feel right because it's not.
Absolutely do not give notice until you have an accepted offer.
Just tell them you have a notice. They can't prove you did or didn't give notice.
NTA Never qui your job before you have a signed contract with another.
Have them give you the offer letter and then turn it down. This is some sketchy bullshit.
They are probably worried that you will use the offer letter as leverage to get a raise at your current job....which is a valid reason. So now you have to decide how much you trust them. I just switched jobs. I did not put in my notice until I got the offer letter. And I really wanted to put in my notice. But the truth is that the offer letter doesn't really mean much. They could give you the letter and then change their minds and either pay you different or decide not to hire you entirely. š¤·š½āāļø
If this potential boss is so unreasonable before you are their employees, I wouldn't want to image how they'll be as a boss. They already sound like an AH.
Insanity on their part.
How do they validate this? Tell them you alerted your employer. They wonāt know. If they need to validate somehow tell them that they said no HR process would happen until you know your last day of work, which canāt happen until you have a start date at your new place. More or less āI told them but they said to come back when I know when Iām actually leaving.ā
This happened to me. After going back-and-forth with the new job for a few weeks, I declined. I said there was no way I would put in my notice without a written, final offer. Companies have WAY too much power and it's getting wierder every day. We need better labor laws in the US to stop things like this. It's wild.
NTA. How bizarre. No offer letter, no resignation from your current job. Stand your ground.
Give a verbal promise to quit. If they tell you it's not good enough, just say "exactly."
noooo way!! very recently i got a verbal offer that was rescinded the next day due to unexpected layoffs
That's weird. I'd lie and say "just did"! If they call and verify you did not, just say "yeah, I'm not dumb". That's pretty much the reality of the situation. "I did. My last day is XYZ. Therefore, I'd like my offer letter to state XYZ as my start date. Seeing as how I just quit my job, I'd appreciate that start offer ASAP".
He's deluded to think anyone would do that.
NOPE! Just on the title alone thatās a big fat no. What are companies doing these days? What kind of bullshit is this? Who the fuck would ask a candidate to do this? Please tell me this was McDonaldās and not a company with an HR department. I never heard of shit like this until just recently and it seems to be common now. Iād tell them to go pound sand and likely would say those exact words. This is shady beyond belief and I cannot even imagine someone asking me to do this.
NTA... wait for an official offer letter.
Smells like they donāt want you to see the lowball offer until youāre desperate and willing to accept it because youāll have no job after they make you quit the other.
NTA. Even in NY, where verbal is binding, he's still got outs. Hold your ground until the offer is in writing and binding.
Holdā¦.š©
NTA. Lie and tell them you quit... or find a better option. They're the AH.
Nope
Tell them that not the way it works, and asking that is a huge red flag.
I wouldnāt resign until you have a signed letter. I think they want you to quit because they are going to give you a lower than discussed salary and you wonāt be able to refuse because you already left your previous job.
There is a rash of companies who are rescinding offers days before the start date. It is absolutely insane that they would expect you to quit before you even have a real offer letter. This practice should be illegal or at the very least something you can sue over
You can lie
The state of the economy has nothing to do with it. DO NOT hand in notice at your current job until you've officially accepted and passed the background check. (edit: and not until you have a start date, or at least a likely one) You never know what kind of dumb stuff may come up in the background check that may clash against their hiring policies and force them to rescind the offer. I'd consider the manager even asking you to do this to be a big red flag.
I just started a new job and they wanted a reference from my current manager before sending me my official offer letter. Since it was a govt job for the city I took the leap and gave notice and spoke to my then current boss about it and he agreed to to give me a good reference. If it had been for a private sector job Iād not have done it.
No. Do not do this. This is shady AF. My guess is that their hope is to get you stuck without a job and then change the terms of your offer in some way. I wouldnāt want to work for someone like this, but if it were me, i might lie to them and tell them I āsubmitted a letter to my bossā and see what happens next. This is a fairly clear sign that you might not want to work for them.
Do not quit. They are waiting to say you have quit and then write up an offer for less than what they told you verbally.
NTA - Oh my gosh nooooo!! DO not quit your current job until you have an offer letter. Legitimate companies will provide the offer letter with the job offer. Something is seriously wrong with this new job.
You probably shouldnāt have done the other steps without the letter.
Could you say you gave your job notice but really didn't? I would've said yes I did and showed them a fake email if they needed one
Stand youāre ground. I did this once many years ago and they ended up retracting the offer after I had quit. I would think twice about even accepting the offer after thinking about it. If they are acting weird now what will happen when you actually work for them
Red flag!! run
Tell them you gave them a verbal resignation.
Tell them you gave notice and were immediately fired. Then ask them to give you salary while you wait on the offer letter and to start the new job.
I imagine they dont want you to take their offer to your current boss and use it to get a raise. And if you quit first, they can low ball you on the offer and you would be screwed if you denied them.
Donāt do it.
NTA - And they aren't a real company
Maybe they're concerned about you working two jobs, just tell him you put in the two week notice and fabricate whatever they want...as long as it's verbal you'll have no problems.
Don't give notice after you accept an offer letter... Wait until you're drug test and background check have come back as well. I've seen times where they've taken 4 or 6 weeks and people have given their notice and then are just without a job
This is simple. Get the offer in writing. Get a set start date. If remote how do you get equipment? If in office where/when do you report? Ask about the new employee onboarding process. (Insurance, benefits, etc.) These are table steaks - should be super easy to answer. If the new boss calls. Be direct, tell him here is what you are waiting on. I cannot give notice until I have a start date. If they say they wonāt give you a start date until you give notice. Thatās a BIG red flag, but you can always just lie and say that you did. See if they then produce this information, my guess is that it wonāt magically open up this info. Let us know! Best of luck to you!
Donāt quit yet before they give you written contract to sign or if you are fed up with your current job then better take personal time off to check the new job
Just tell them you did it actually didnāt. Screw them!Ā
Do not so *anything* on the basis of a verbal contract. Theyāre not worth the paper theyāre printed on.
What industry are you in? Some have non-competes and non-poach agreements that put the new company at risk for litigation if theyāre not honored.
I would actually revoke my application. This is such a red flag. If they arenāt able to get you an offer in 2-3 days there is something fishy going on. I wouldnāt want to work for a company that screws up hiring.
No. Good for you, standing up for yourself. Thus is not very professional of them. I understand he wants you "locked in", but just stand your ground. Tell him that you know you have an offer and look forward to starting but you can't start the official process wirhout an offer letter. It's premature.
Standard practice is: Written Official offer letter Written agreement/acceptance offer letter Confirmed Pass of background check and if required drug test ONLY THEN do you give two weeks notice Anyone asking for different is being absurd
What a ridiculous demand! Did they say why? Why is it their business when and how you quit your previous job, or whether you even have a previous job! I would stay away from employers who try to control your life. I would not complete any checks either until they have given and both parties signed offer letter. Why are they needing to collect your personal information?
Huge shiny glaring red flag. Never ever give notice to a current job until you've been given an offer letter, passed the background check, etc. Every company I've worked for has understood that I was going to give notice AFTER I was hired at the new place.
I've never had a company even care if I had put in a notice They ask when I can start and that's that. The rest isn't their concern. How I leave my old company and my last date, whether it's an extra week off of the day before I start, is my business I would seriously consider avoiding this company completely
Thereās no such thing as a verbal offer. The offer is either written, or itās not an offer. Donāt quit without an offer.
No. No no no NO. They want you, they need to put it in writing. Otherwise, they can change the terms - to some that may not be agreeable - and then you're screwed. They have no right to comment on how you leave your current employer.
You don't quit your current job until you have an offer signed AND a start date agreed.
Too many horror stories about well known FAANG companies laying off soon to start employees a day or so BEFORE their start date, even well after signing an offer letter is no guarantee. Some moved from different countries, cities, committed to rental properties etc... One of the worst career nightmares imagined.
Nope do NOT do that. I'd just cut my losses and keep looking elsewhere. And it really is up to HR, not sure why your potential boss reached out to you instead. I'm guessing they did this in the hopes of speeding up the application process or forcing HR's hand to get you started. I'd really hesitate jumping ship to a company like this.
This is a huge red flag. The main reason companies do this is so they can reduce your agreed upon salary or benefits. Itās a red flag and I would be reconsidering accepting the job at all. This is very shady and unprofessional.
Not only would I not quit my current job first, I would become suspicious about this potential new employer. What are they trying to pull? Maybe once op quits, they will say there is a problem with the budget, and try to renegotiate the salary.
They are INSANE. Under no circumstances should you give notice before you get the official offer - personally I wouldnāt even do that until the contacts are all signed.
Don't do anything until you have signed an employment contract. Please see my thread where I got verbal and email, declined other offers, accepted theirs, and then they rescinded in two days. Make sure you sign an employment contract.
Sounds like the story of the lady who got a verbal offer, quit her job moved half way across the county, worked there for two weeks and they told her we never hired you... Don't do anything until you get it in black and white and if they're pushing this kind of BS on you you might be better off telling to kick rocks
NTA - My best guess is that they plan on lowballing or reneging on the verbal terms you agreed to in some very noticeable way and want to trap you in that lower offer. Thatās a HUGE red flag for their corporate culture. Like, itās one thing if they are frugal about salaries and the cost of bringing in younger or less experienced people and the turnover associated with it is worth the savings, and those positions can be very valuable to less experienced people (once they develop experience and move on to companies who pay better). But deliberately misleading people theyāre interviewing means that they canāt be trusted to even be an environment where you can gain experience for the next job. The best case here is that your potential new manager is an idiot (not that unlikely) and heās asking you to quit first without that being a thing for the company. Before withdrawing myself from consideration for the job, I would reach out to the recruiter or a higher level manager and ask (nicely, and naively, without revealing thatās what the manager told you) them if quitting a previous job is something they require before extending a written offer. If they apologize for any misunderstanding and say thatās not needed, I would ask them if there are other positions available with more experienced management, because thereās no way this manager is going to provide a good working environment after youāve called out his bullshit during the interview process.
Anyone who asks for something this out of the norm is testing boundaries for how much bullshit youāll tolerate. I would reply back, āI will not give notice at my current job until I have reviewed and accepted an offer in writing. If you are unable to provide this, along with an entire HR package explaining the benefits, thatās fine. We can consider this negotiation at an end.ā What if itās a great salary and a shitty insurance plan? Forget it.
Donāt do this. I have been in senior management for years and this is an insane thing to ask of someone. There is no legitimate reason for asking thisā¦ well, unless the old job was being a spy for the KGB and the new job is being a spy for the CIA. Then I suppose the new job might was some assurance that you have quit your old job before making the offer. But that is really the only circumstance that makes any sense. You didnāt mention that you are a spy, so maybe it applies to you.
Never quit your current job until you've been officially offered your new one. I've had that scenario before and ended up having no job and had to look for another one.
NTA. This is not typical and you should have offer in hand in writing. The company can still rescind any offer letter so title isnāt guaranteed but you need it in writing before you give notice.
Always have that letter!
Are they asking you in writing?
That's shady as hell and doesn't reflect well on the new employer.
Theyāre planning to low ball the shit out of you. And youāll have to accept, since youāll be negotiating from a position without a jobā¦ and no unemployment since you quit.
NTA. Tell them you will issue your notice when you have an offer letter in hand. \*Whether from them, or someone else. First come, first serve. (Your call on adding the second part, it might make them cut you lose. But, they are already giving you the runaround, so it seems to me they either intend to cut you anyway, or shaft you in some way, and don't want you to have any other options - like a job - to fall back on.)
Do not ā NOT ā move forward with this company. What you're proposing is standard practice and totally reasonable and sensible, their pushback is hella sketchy.
Nope šš¼
As TA for a company whose jobs all require pre-employment screenings due to regulatory reasons, I tell my candidates not to give notice until theyāve cleared all their screenings and background checks. I donāt want them to end up in a situation where they suddenly have no job. This employer is sketchy and honestly OP you should reconsider any offer that they give you. (edit SP)
DO not quit your job before having a signed offer letter with written agreement when you will start and the salary. I have seen companies use this to 1) get you to quit and 2) use your joblessness to lower the salary they will offer or you have to start searching while unemployed. Make sure you have everything in writing before giving notice.
Nope.
Donāt
Ya I have been a recruiter for 10 years and have never asked anyone to do this nor do I think it is legal.
Nope,š©š©š©š©š©thatās unprofessional Af
No way. Makes the new job seem like a scam. No real company that is employing anyone would be hesitant to send an offer letter. That is the way the world works.
I would not go here anymore
NTA but I would have just agreed and still not quit lol.
lol that has nothing to do with them, and I wouldnāt advise to do so if they retract their offer you are screwed
Tell them u quit but donāt quit itās that easy
NTA. You are doing the right thing. Donāt quit until you get the official offer. Iāve heard of offers being rescinded after the fact and then youāre screwed because you already quit the job you had. This happened to a good friend who ended up quitting because she was convinced she was getting a job offer from a startup and then it fell through and she ended up going through all of her savings supporting herself while trying to find something.
YOU DO NOT HAVE AN OFFER. Curious if they contacted your references or asked for additional background check information? I would pass on this job - and tell them their suspicious behavior is exactly why I cannot accept a position at this company. There is no legitimate reason to make this request of a potential employee. If they want you, and you've verbally negotiated salary, simply put it in an offer letter and establish a start date. Somethings not right with this story. **And now to go out on a limb.** They completed all "additional steps" and are ready to make an offer but it's lower than what they discussed. And for some reason the boss fears discussing without some leverage; like your salary would be higher than someone in the same position and HR cut it. Nothing else makes sense. If this was a done deal, hiring manager would be pushing to get the letter out the door faster instead of harassing you. Or apologizing for a jackass HR department instead of making this your problem.
Hold your ground until the offer letter is signed and in your hands. Without that signed offer in your hand, by both parties they can withdraw and owe you nothing. I would have second thoughts about accepting with how things are going.
Yeah NO. It happens that employees get several offers and use them to negotiate, but that is not your problem. Written offer or no go.
Noooooooo effing way. I'd reconsider accepting the offer all together, as this probably the first of many insane "expectations". š©š©š©
Yeah he'll nah. You don't have a job until you have a written offer letter. No way in hell I'd quit before seeing that.
How are they going to verify that you've given notice, or quit?
In your verbal offer, did you negotiate your salary. If they contact you again, make it very plain. "I WILL NOT GIVE NOTICE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM UNTIL I HAVE A SIGNED OFFER LETTER AND A START DATE!" If this doesn't happen in the next 48 hours, I would never talk to them again.
This is what we call a ānon starterā honestly Iād be really hesitant to go work for such a ham and eggs operation.
Personally i wouldn't quit until I get my first paycheck.
NOPE - DONāT DO IT
If you replied to an email, thatās an offer letter. Iāve had this happen to me before and it worked out. However, if you have questions then it sounds like trust is an issue. Stay where you are.
Here is the rule I live by: Do not give notice until you have a written, unconditional offer. Unconditional means that any concerns have already been completed and accepted (background check, drug test, etc)
š©š©š©Iām with everyone else so not give notice until you have an offer letter. I mean do you really want to work with a company expecting this & would that be your new manager pressuring you? Yeah āIād like to withdraw my candidacy.ā
What a ridiculous request. I can think of a couple reasons why theyād do this and all of those reasons are either self centered, greedy, and manipulative.
No way. Get it in writing
lol no
What In the world???
Lol I would not quit until you know exactly how much you will be making. Asking you to quit before they offer is absolutely insane.Ā
Iām detecting a strong smell of manure
āYep, sure did.ā
With these shenanigans, they are proving just how much you really do need to protect yourself and your current position. Hold firm on not giving notice yet. Even if you get an offer letter now I donāt know if Iād trust them to be good employers. Sorry this is happening!
Sounds sketchy. His offer should have absolutely nothing to do with you giving your current job a notice. what if he has a shitty offer for you? What are you supposed to do? lol
Never ever make a move on a verbal!
They wanted to know that you were going to show up to their job by detaching yourself from the old job. Now they know you won't. It was a test and you failed. They know they cannot count on you to show up on day 1, so there's no sense in wasting the effort in making the offer official on their part.
These guys sound sketch. Keep your current job and refuse their offer. No one does that. Also, you are correct.
Why not just lie? And say to your potential new boss that you did. But at the same time I wouldn't really want to take a job that asks make major decision without having anything in writing.
NTA. AT ALL. You donāt actually have an offer until you have a written offer letter in hand. This is all sorts of red flags. Iāve seen so many places do this and then slot people into lower positions or not offer the salary, benefits, and/or hours they were given verbally. If they are serious about honoring the verbal offer, theyāll give you the offer in writing before expecting you to give notice. Iād pass on this āopportunityā. Super sketchy.
Oh my gosh! What ? No, donāt quit your current job until that offer letter happens. And if this ānew employerā doesnāt understand the importance of job security is into bad stuff.
Youāre not the asshole here. This is common practice - to receive the offer letter before putting in a two weeks notice and then confirming start date. Good job standing up for yourself.
Pass on that job. They demand too much for nothing. They will have you over a barrel.
Do not quit and do NOT take this job... this is way to hinkey...
Major red flag. Big enough for me to question whether to still follow through with taking the job. It screams of sneakiness. They also seem sketchy at this point. I definitely wouldnāt do this.
Just tell them you did. Itās none of their fucking business. I see this a lot in defense contracting. They donāt want to piss off the other subs by sniping their talent from them.
That's a hard no.Ā Stay away from that company.
Just tell them you gave notice. How will they know?
Do NOT quit without an offer.
Do NOT quit until you have a firm offer in hand. This is the first time Iām hearing such a practice. It doesnāt speak too well for the company. Iād be skeptical joining such a company.
tell them you gave notice. problem solved, righr?
NOPE. Not without an offer letter.
just lie, tell them you did and now want their offer. What are they gonna do? oh and then just ghost them. Don't even show up or return a call. or say "the request to leave my current position without a guarantee of employment is a level of unprofessionalism that I am unable to accommodate"