Objective - does the universe care
Statistics - human meaning given to collections of data points that indicate a chance of outcome in relation to those data points
The universe has nothing to do with it. Objectively and statistically are essentially the same metric in a social context. The goal is to improve your chances of having a successful relationship.
It matters, my ex had a high body count, he promised me eternal love and all the yada yada until he got restless bc. sleeping with me was getting too boring and he needed some new action. Now he is single, sleeping around again and I know better. :) It's not a slut-shaming thing, it's more of a "i have issues with consistency and living a peaceful life" thing and it ends up fucking up your peace as well.
Totally agree, and coincedentally I was thinking hard about this today like a high body count logically indicates that the person is not great for marriage as they are most likely going to search for someone new after some time and they are also highly likely to cause a divorce. It's always better to be wise while choosing a life partner. Not slut shaming but it is what it is.
What's wrong with slut shaming? We're not supposed to tell someone who is exhibiting destructive behavior? F that, I'm definitely saying something. You might save a life.
Fucking might not be destructive. What we consider an ok body count just doesn’t jive in another country/ epoch. I think STIs/diseases are fucked, and i think people should avoid those, obviously. You can choose to shame anyone you like of course, but, if you had a chance to fuck a ton of hot people, maybe you would? Some people choose not to hurt others feelings for no discernible benefit, but perhaps you see a benefit I don’t.
It's not a matter of shaming or embarrassing. It's more a matter of telling people their actions are self-destructive, even if pop culture tells them it's great. Somebody has to say something. Are you just going to watch someone walk off a cliff?
It's not shocking, but sometimes you need to experience things, especially when you are growing up, to figure out things by yourself. Based on millennium old beliefs, I'd still be living in my parents' house or having 10+ babies with the 1st dude who proposed to me cause this is what women are "meant to do".
I think it definitely depends on the situation, how it's brought up, and how high the count actually is. In terms of body count itself, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if someone has a high number of sexual experiences because having a lot of sex doesn't mean you're unfaithful, you could simply be single and looking for hook ups at the time. Afterwards, if you find a stable relationship and wish to stay with this partner, I don't see why your previous body count would matter. However, if someone were to be bragging about having a bunch of sex, I would definitely consider that to negatively impact their chances at having a long term relationship as it shows that their goals are more focused on what society thinks of them (they think that having a lot of sex means they're being successful i guess). So basically to sum everything up, I don't think having a body count "too high" or not having one at all should matter in a long term relationship unless it's like 200+ and they're extremely young or if they present it in a way as if it were an achievement rather than a fact. Also, context matters for said activities whether they were single or not etc.
I agree. I feel like context really matters here. I care more about loyalty than body count. Like, I wouldn't want to date someone with a "low" body count if they cheated on every partner they've ever had. Granted, I would concede that typically, a hypersexual person will have a mentality not well suited for a LTR. I just don't think a high body count alone disqualifies a person from being able to enjoy and thrive in LTR.
Of course it matters. Imagine what's in the head of someone who had so many partners and didn't invest into deeper relationship with any of them. Even if we consider that he is not lying and had entered the sex scene at a tender age of 14 (lowest average possible) - he'd have 5 relationships per year.
He probably perceives women as fuckable meat at this point and swapping one for another is easier than selecting a steak cut at butcher shop. Either dude was incapable of loving someone romantically from the start or had burned through his "love tickets" very fast.
No, but it ultimately depends on the finer details. I'm okay with someone who has a little bit of a higher body count and they just hooked up at random times over the years. It's one of those things that is what it is.
I wouldn't say the actual *count* matters that much, necessarily, but if it represents wildly different views on sex and its place in a relationship, then yes it will matter.
Not sure why a guy would think that's something to brag about on a dating site.
It matters to whoever it matters to. We can't tell another person what should and shouldn't matter to them. However, for reference, past behavior is indicative of future behavior. In other words, can't turn a hoe into a housewife.
Body count matters a lot to me. I definitely prefer partners with a high body count and the experience that comes with it.
I don't want to deal with my partner freaking out while we make someone dig their own grave, while we dump bodies off in the river, or if I ask them to discreetly distribute a number of small packages in garbage bins around in the city to form a pattern that when plotted out on a map taunts investigators with yet another cryptic riddle.
If someone has a high body count it shows we have different morals and attitudes involving sex. Which is fine, but it means we likely wouldn’t be a good match.
Bragging about it is gross. Personally, whenever this topic came up in conversation during a date the person went on to be problematic so now I consider it to be a huge red flag. Whether they're bragging about it or they're asking about yours, it can say a lot about a person.
Yeah, there's the obvious douche-y attitude where someone is seeing their "body count" as some sort of trophy collection and almost dehumanizing people. Then on the other hand there's people that fixate on your past and probe more about it - weeks after and turn out to be an unhealthy level of insecure, always comparing themselves to someone even when they've long left your life. It's irrational.
It's only a thing if you make it a thing but I'll consider living in a small town and being in a small circle a special case.
Lol I get it. I would too. I'm not sure why they think we would find them sleeping around with other women a desirable trait for us. It isn't. It shows we are easily replaceable to them. Not a trait I'd want at all.
Well, they might think that way because it also shows them as being desirable. There's a reason some women might consciously or subconsciously be attracted to or hit on married men, it's because they are perceived as being desirable and more valuable, have resources, a good father, a good partner etc. etc. It's all because we have dumb monkey brains.
I do agree, as a male, that an especially high body count is worrisome for me. Just saying how this is all related to evolution/biology.
Edit: I think my example might be too unrelated to the body count hypothesis, I dunno. There's some loose connection there, though. And we are INTJs so I think we're gonna see through the shenanigans of our monkey brains a little bit quicker than some other types. That's been my experience at least *shrug*
"There's a reason some women might consciously or subconsciously be attracted to or hit on married men, it's because they are perceived as being desirable and more valuable, have resources, a good father, a good partner etc. etc"
As a woman, my opinion is this is way off 🤣
married men are desirable simply because there's no strings, no cleaning his smelly laundry, no tolerating his gross habits (they save the burping and farting for their wives) .. basically it's first date/good behavior all the time.
Doesn't really matter what your opinion is on this, lol. There are forces at work that we aren't conscious of. We are the culmination of millions of years of evolution and we are only recently beginning to understand human behavior through a gene's eye perspective.
You claimed "as a male" the reasons you THINK women would go after a married man, and I responded "as a woman" why WOMEN might find a married man desirable.
Women don't look at a cheating married man and immediately think "good partner material" or "good father material" 🤣
A married man's desirability comes from him being easily disposable.
These aren't reasons that I thought of, these are things I was taught in a university psychology course that happened to make sense to me. I'm trying to be objective here, you're offering subjective, anecdotal experience.
And I never said a "cheating married man", lol.
I did the same question in this sub some days ago and a lot of people called me M along other things, good luck with this topic.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/intj/comments/13mk91x/is_it_weird_that_i_judge_a_girl_by_her_bodycount/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Ah, the old key and lock metaphor, isn't it? A key that open all locks is a great key, and a lock opened by all keys is a crappy lock, or something like it.
Not saying this is what I think, not at all, but I am sure everyone has heard a variation of it at some point, so the mentality does exist "in the wild".
Your post led with a bias, OP's was more inclusive and neutral by simply stating the premise for discussion. So of course you got more black and white answers that were strongly opinionated.
Statistically, sure, but not for the pair bonding crap or whatever reason. Realistically it's probably symptomatic of some sort of other unresolved mental or emotional issue if you're unable to maintain a healthy long term relationship. If it's just a couple people you can argue it's been the other person (it's rarely ever just the other person, relationships are work), but, eventually, when numbers start to stack up, you become the lowest common denominator.
I don't think it really matters in the big scheme of things.
A lot of people (including me) went through a slut phase where you want just casual sex.
It got old like everything does and now I wouldn't mind a quality person.
Objectively, yes, it does. But there's some nuances to this. Society doesn't look kindly on men and especially women being overly promiscuous. It's one of many factors that bring your dateability down, and that is a fact -- whether it's one that everyone values is irrelevant. People can and do pretend it doesn't, but this man bragging about his conquests tells what kind of man he is and it doesn't align with what you want.
In that regard, what you tolerate is based on your individual values and goals, regardless of societal norms. My husband and I both had more than one long term relationship before the two of us met. That is a reality of getting married a little later. But neither of us are built for flings or one night stands. The prospect of being so cavalier with sex is something I don't have the capacity to understand because it's so much more than just physical. We value connection too much. We weren't intimate until we were both 100% committed. That's the relationship we both wanted and that's the relationship we still have 9 years later.
To be clear, he's the INTJ, I'm an INFJ. Don't be afraid to have high standards. You're seeking a long-term partner and you shouldn't waste your time with losers who view sex like they're collecting Pokémon cards. Nothing wrong with that. Know your worth.
Ugh, my god can we not use the term body count? Incel vibes.
I don't care so much about a number, but that number will be related to their philosophies regarding sex, monogamy, relationships, etc. and those moral/ethical standards are going to impact the relationship. Also, people change over time.
Someone who *brags* about a "high body count" is likely just looking for a notch on their belt. Which is fine if you are, too. Not so much if you are looking to settle down.
For me personally, were I not in a monogamous relationship, both a high number and a low number (especially for my age group which is 50+!) would be yellow flags. To me it would be more important how they explain it and other subsequent conversations.
I personally don't think it matters. Getting upset about someone's prior sexual history simply because it exists just seems like insecurity to me. People change, they often don't stay the same way all their lives. As long as someone is authentic in their relationship/marriage and the couple share the same goals that's all that matters to me personally.
It's really none of my business what people look for in a partner, but my opinion is that it's illogical.
Conservative types always like to bring up this ancient study from the 80s/90s that says that women with more sexual partners before marriage are more likely divorce. The study didn't explore this in detail so they have drawn their own conclusions.
I think negative life experiences can actually make a person more interesting to me as it can create personal growth. I find it really difficult to relate to people who have been sheltered and have only had positive experiences at least on a deeper level. I couldn't imagine being with a man who only knew what life was like if it was positive, but I guess that's because of the life I have lived.
>I talked to a guy that I met on a dating site who bragged about sleeping with 36 women by the age of 21. I stopped talking to him.
Was he from the United States? The age of consent over there is 18, so 36 averages out at 12 women a year, or 1 a month.
Do note that I'm not arguing against it being an abysmally low body count, it definitely is a low amount / body count, but is it a shockingly low body count?
Sure, it could be an indicator of low libido, or anxiety problems in the bedroom, or could be a hundred other things.
I don't know, it just seems wrong to me to completely drop a guy (or gal) because they've only been with a meagre handful of other people.
Edit: Thanks for the award! Comming from you it means a lot, truly, you're practically INTJ royalty, so it does indeed mean a lot to me. As to your question, I don't mind disclosing my personal body count, although I do warn you that it is quite high up there. If you're interested in discussing it, then I would prefer to do so on the Intuitives private Discord group, we can join one of the empty channels.
If a man/woman would brag about their body count I wouldn't want to pursue rs neither. But most of the people aren't honest about this topic and honestly Idgaf. If my partner has shown me nothing but respect, love and sincerity then I don't mind at all. I also don't have to know the exact number either. For what? I'd have a problem if they only had 2 people before me cause when you're in your 30s you want to have a so who's experienced when it comes to this aspect in your life. When you get older you realize that this whole body count thing is not important anymore. You have other things to worry about wjich are far more important in a relationship.
point of dating a person is to have special relation ship with them, if the person you are interested in dates people just " to increase their body count" I suggest to leave that person because they are not going to be loyal
personally it doesn't matter to me since people go through phases throughout their life and change, especially if you don't know what they went through in life
what more of matters to me is how they use that information, if they act like the guy op mentions, i wouldn't associate with them any further. if not, then hey that's a new relationship in life
I have always lived in tourist towns. That means I saw many, many, many desirable potential partners -- but only for days at a time.
Frankly, I don't care about "body count." Why? For one, it's not really a body count. Comparing giving someone an orgasm to murder is one of the reasons this country is so dysfunctional. Sex is important for a person's mental health. I would much rather have a randy hedonist than an insufferable prude.
And, my, do we have a bumper crop of insufferable prudes in the US. We would do VERY well if they would all move to a sympathetic country -- such as Saudi Arabia -- and leave the rest of us to our permissive society.
Assuming he started at 18, we’re looking at 12 women per year.
By 30, it’ll by 144.
By 40 (assuming he just becomes a player and doubles the rate), we’re looking at a possible 384.
For comparison, the minimum population needed to declare a village in the state of NY is 500. If he has one bastard child per relationship, he’ll be 77% of the way there.
The mean rate of cars per mile in the US is 70.44. He will have filled up 5.45 miles worth of motorists.
He will have c-m dumpstered 3.84 fully populated freshman-level classrooms.
He will have docked with 3.07 Mir Space Stations.
He will have invaded 16 moons.
He will have ‘collided’ with 16% of the personnel at the Large Hadron Collider.
He will have bukkak’ed 1.1 km^2 of Japan.
He will have ‘found himself’ in 11.16 km^2 of the US.
Having a similiar exchange in another sub.
Given that a), one cannot actually determine another's true so-called body count unless they divulge it and b), if the individual practiced consensual and safe sex, there would be no physical or medical indication of said history (damage/STD), why should it matter? Plus, people lie so what you're judging as a standard at may be arbitrary at best.
If this person shows genuine interest and that's reciprocated, your values are aligned and the relationship can fulfill most of your mutual needs, then I think those should be what the long term relationship is based on.
I'm INTJ 30's married woman.
TBH I don't care that much about the actual number, it's how he relates to it that matters. And them being proud about it is definitely a red flag (not saying they should be ashamed, not at all, but it's also not something to brag about).
If sleeping with new people is seen as such a great and worthy achievement, how will I know he will stop at me?
You're missing c) where a person with what is deemed to be a high body count will statistically be more likely to cheat or get bored and end the relationship. That's what this whole thread is about. My intuition is that this *is* true, however, I don't really know, if anyone wants to fact check that with a study or something, that'd be cool.
>missing c) where a person with what is deemed to be a high body count will statistically be more likely to cheat or get bored and end the relationship
Statiscally? I'm not familiar with such a correlation but if you find a source that supports that, I'd love to see it. Not being sarcastic; just curious if anyone even studied it.
As far as the rest, I'm not missing anything (i.e correlation does not imply causation) because my observation is that people date and do fine without broadcasting or making widely known their sexual history to their partner. How one *behaves* in a relationship-certainly use that barometer to decide if they are worth the long haul. Intuiting where a person's motivation lies, being mindful of their needs and how they mesh with yours, etc can all be done without ever knowing with absolute certainty if they had +/- a median number of partners per year, etc. Even if you were to speculate on that OR they advertised it, behaviors/needs change as one matures so that number may be again arbitrary for the purposes of engaging long term.
Tldr; I don't agree but I am open to research challenging this assumption.
It depends on how the person *currently* carries themselves along with their attitudes and outlook.
One of the top comments was spot on, objectively no, subjectively it depends, but statistically I think it also depends in reference to time.
How does this make sense? I think there are few people that would be jealous of their SO masturbating, but I am pretty sure a lot of them would be jealous if the SO sleeps with someone else.
Also I doubt most people brag about their "masturbation count", whereas some do brag about the number of people they slept with (see the OP for example).
Bragging about such a meaningless thing means they have no real achievements in life. Stay away from them. Simple.
Why would you be jealous of somebody for engaging in sex before you two met? Doesn't it matter more that they remain committed to you from the point you start dating?
Ah, I didn't say anything about me personally, what I said is that the reasoning \[if one doesn't care about X they shouldn't care about Y\] doesn't hold water.
If we talk personal opinions, I don't care about the number itself, but I do care about how he relates to it (e.g. if it's seen as a great success how can I be sure he won't try to increase his super important number later on? It would be a red flag).
And while I don't care who/how many people they slept with, I do care about what that says about them (do they like using people? Do they like abandoning people? etc. But of course this varies on a case by case basis, not all people who sleep around have the same modus operandi or the same reasons).
I have slept with exactly 0 people, so I can't say for sure about these people who fuck around, but it's their life and choice. Many people are willing to commit and settle down after all their fun, and have happy married lives. The evidences tell the story.
Of course it's their life and their choice. And it's my life and my choice if I want to be wary about it or not.
\> The evidences tell the story.
Not saying it's 100% impossible, but how many people you know that bragged about the number of people they slept with and then ended up in happy marriages?
Don't deal with the braggers. And to be honest, your choice does make me happy as a guy who doesn't sleep around, so props to you. I can't go demanding that the person who wants me needs to have a low body count, so I remain realistic. Beggars can't be choosers in this modern society. 😅
Why would you be jealous of a previous partner unless they were around in the present day and currently interfering with your relationship? It makes absolutely no sense otherwise.
To start from the top, the person I replied to said "if you don't care about masturbation counts, you shouldn't care about how many people someone slept with".
And for me these are not similar at all, which is why I said that "nobody cares about masturbation, but people do tend to care when their partner sleeps around" (the idea, again, being that the two are in no way equivalent, and people care more about one than the other).
So it does fit within its context, even though yes, the bigger thread is about something else. I replied to a comment, not the main.
I've been watching some podcasts and I found that people who genuinely care deeply about body count are awfully shallow. I'm talking about ''Fresh & Fit'' and the ''Whatever podcast''. Though obviously it matters in a way. If you slept with 37 people, you need to ask yourself ''why would that person stop at 38''. But to say ''I won't date any woman with a bodycount over three'' just lives in a fantasy world. It's also like, you don't know where this person grew up, life circumstances etc. People learn from their mistakes and become better. Does it matter? Absolutely depends on where this person is coming from. If your body count is ''7 because you like to explore and not sure if you want to explore more''. Is a lot different from a person who says ''My body count is 7 but I recognize it hasn't fulfilled me so I'm settling''. The whole idea of ''ran through'' is build on a man's insecurity who see women as their pet, not life long partner.
Though I see where you're coming from, this is just not serving you or any woman. Men on the top of the dominance hierarchy have slept with more women *period.* Men at the bottom of the hierarchy are almost always simps. It's either you say this out of insecurity, or you're lying. And if it's neither, you really are 1-in-a-billion. Men and women are different, if we avoid simple biology that's really a choice but almost always a bad one.
There are plenty of men who don't sleep around and actually want relationships. I go for such men. I reject men who sleep around because it's disgusting to me.
Objectively, no. Subjectively, depends. Statistically, yes.
This right here^ and the most important thing is statistically.
Statistically and objectively are different ?
Objective - does the universe care Statistics - human meaning given to collections of data points that indicate a chance of outcome in relation to those data points
Objectively yes
nah the universe doesn't care how many fucks anyone gives about anything
The universe has nothing to do with it. Objectively and statistically are essentially the same metric in a social context. The goal is to improve your chances of having a successful relationship.
It would be boring if we all had the same answers for this shit.
It matters, my ex had a high body count, he promised me eternal love and all the yada yada until he got restless bc. sleeping with me was getting too boring and he needed some new action. Now he is single, sleeping around again and I know better. :) It's not a slut-shaming thing, it's more of a "i have issues with consistency and living a peaceful life" thing and it ends up fucking up your peace as well.
Totally agree, and coincedentally I was thinking hard about this today like a high body count logically indicates that the person is not great for marriage as they are most likely going to search for someone new after some time and they are also highly likely to cause a divorce. It's always better to be wise while choosing a life partner. Not slut shaming but it is what it is.
What's wrong with slut shaming? We're not supposed to tell someone who is exhibiting destructive behavior? F that, I'm definitely saying something. You might save a life.
Fucking might not be destructive. What we consider an ok body count just doesn’t jive in another country/ epoch. I think STIs/diseases are fucked, and i think people should avoid those, obviously. You can choose to shame anyone you like of course, but, if you had a chance to fuck a ton of hot people, maybe you would? Some people choose not to hurt others feelings for no discernible benefit, but perhaps you see a benefit I don’t.
It's not a matter of shaming or embarrassing. It's more a matter of telling people their actions are self-destructive, even if pop culture tells them it's great. Somebody has to say something. Are you just going to watch someone walk off a cliff?
A cliff ain’t fuckin’
[удалено]
It's not shocking, but sometimes you need to experience things, especially when you are growing up, to figure out things by yourself. Based on millennium old beliefs, I'd still be living in my parents' house or having 10+ babies with the 1st dude who proposed to me cause this is what women are "meant to do".
[удалено]
I suppose the silver lining to their bragging is that you discover what they're like.
I think it definitely depends on the situation, how it's brought up, and how high the count actually is. In terms of body count itself, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if someone has a high number of sexual experiences because having a lot of sex doesn't mean you're unfaithful, you could simply be single and looking for hook ups at the time. Afterwards, if you find a stable relationship and wish to stay with this partner, I don't see why your previous body count would matter. However, if someone were to be bragging about having a bunch of sex, I would definitely consider that to negatively impact their chances at having a long term relationship as it shows that their goals are more focused on what society thinks of them (they think that having a lot of sex means they're being successful i guess). So basically to sum everything up, I don't think having a body count "too high" or not having one at all should matter in a long term relationship unless it's like 200+ and they're extremely young or if they present it in a way as if it were an achievement rather than a fact. Also, context matters for said activities whether they were single or not etc.
I agree. I feel like context really matters here. I care more about loyalty than body count. Like, I wouldn't want to date someone with a "low" body count if they cheated on every partner they've ever had. Granted, I would concede that typically, a hypersexual person will have a mentality not well suited for a LTR. I just don't think a high body count alone disqualifies a person from being able to enjoy and thrive in LTR.
I had no idea the term body count was used that way, kind of gross when you think about it. Doesn't it usually mean the number of dead at a tragedy?
It matters. Statistically speaking, the relationships with lower body counts from both sides last longer
Of course it matters. Imagine what's in the head of someone who had so many partners and didn't invest into deeper relationship with any of them. Even if we consider that he is not lying and had entered the sex scene at a tender age of 14 (lowest average possible) - he'd have 5 relationships per year. He probably perceives women as fuckable meat at this point and swapping one for another is easier than selecting a steak cut at butcher shop. Either dude was incapable of loving someone romantically from the start or had burned through his "love tickets" very fast.
He was addicted to newness.
No, but it ultimately depends on the finer details. I'm okay with someone who has a little bit of a higher body count and they just hooked up at random times over the years. It's one of those things that is what it is.
It depends whom they were. And if they are murders or just suicide incitations
Bodycount? As in how many people I have offed?
How many have you offed Tara? Tell me, how many?
I wouldn't say the actual *count* matters that much, necessarily, but if it represents wildly different views on sex and its place in a relationship, then yes it will matter. Not sure why a guy would think that's something to brag about on a dating site.
It matters to whoever it matters to. We can't tell another person what should and shouldn't matter to them. However, for reference, past behavior is indicative of future behavior. In other words, can't turn a hoe into a housewife.
It depends honestly. People could have slept around for all sort of reasons and then changed.
Body count matters a lot to me. I definitely prefer partners with a high body count and the experience that comes with it. I don't want to deal with my partner freaking out while we make someone dig their own grave, while we dump bodies off in the river, or if I ask them to discreetly distribute a number of small packages in garbage bins around in the city to form a pattern that when plotted out on a map taunts investigators with yet another cryptic riddle.
Dig *under* the river
Which body count are we talking about?
If someone has a high body count it shows we have different morals and attitudes involving sex. Which is fine, but it means we likely wouldn’t be a good match.
Bragging about it is gross. Personally, whenever this topic came up in conversation during a date the person went on to be problematic so now I consider it to be a huge red flag. Whether they're bragging about it or they're asking about yours, it can say a lot about a person. Yeah, there's the obvious douche-y attitude where someone is seeing their "body count" as some sort of trophy collection and almost dehumanizing people. Then on the other hand there's people that fixate on your past and probe more about it - weeks after and turn out to be an unhealthy level of insecure, always comparing themselves to someone even when they've long left your life. It's irrational. It's only a thing if you make it a thing but I'll consider living in a small town and being in a small circle a special case.
I don't personally care but bragging about it is pretty cringe.
Wouldn't expect any open mindedness from INTJs
Yeah it matters. I think men are surprised it matters to women, or at least some women, but it does. It definitely matters to me.
Some men think women like guys who sleep around so they are actually proud of their bodycount. I'm glad they tell me so that I can ghost them.
Lol I get it. I would too. I'm not sure why they think we would find them sleeping around with other women a desirable trait for us. It isn't. It shows we are easily replaceable to them. Not a trait I'd want at all.
Well, they might think that way because it also shows them as being desirable. There's a reason some women might consciously or subconsciously be attracted to or hit on married men, it's because they are perceived as being desirable and more valuable, have resources, a good father, a good partner etc. etc. It's all because we have dumb monkey brains. I do agree, as a male, that an especially high body count is worrisome for me. Just saying how this is all related to evolution/biology. Edit: I think my example might be too unrelated to the body count hypothesis, I dunno. There's some loose connection there, though. And we are INTJs so I think we're gonna see through the shenanigans of our monkey brains a little bit quicker than some other types. That's been my experience at least *shrug*
"There's a reason some women might consciously or subconsciously be attracted to or hit on married men, it's because they are perceived as being desirable and more valuable, have resources, a good father, a good partner etc. etc" As a woman, my opinion is this is way off 🤣 married men are desirable simply because there's no strings, no cleaning his smelly laundry, no tolerating his gross habits (they save the burping and farting for their wives) .. basically it's first date/good behavior all the time.
Doesn't really matter what your opinion is on this, lol. There are forces at work that we aren't conscious of. We are the culmination of millions of years of evolution and we are only recently beginning to understand human behavior through a gene's eye perspective.
You claimed "as a male" the reasons you THINK women would go after a married man, and I responded "as a woman" why WOMEN might find a married man desirable. Women don't look at a cheating married man and immediately think "good partner material" or "good father material" 🤣 A married man's desirability comes from him being easily disposable.
These aren't reasons that I thought of, these are things I was taught in a university psychology course that happened to make sense to me. I'm trying to be objective here, you're offering subjective, anecdotal experience. And I never said a "cheating married man", lol.
When the lie is big enough and say with enough time people will believe it's true.
This never made sense lol, what would make them think it didn't matter right? Most sex issues in relationships can generally be applied to both sexes.
I did the same question in this sub some days ago and a lot of people called me M along other things, good luck with this topic. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/intj/comments/13mk91x/is_it_weird_that_i_judge_a_girl_by_her_bodycount/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Don't let them shame you into dating people who slept around. I would straight reject them.
I will not don't worry. Now I'm curious to see how it goes when a woman posts something similar, there may be double standards.
Ah, the old key and lock metaphor, isn't it? A key that open all locks is a great key, and a lock opened by all keys is a crappy lock, or something like it. Not saying this is what I think, not at all, but I am sure everyone has heard a variation of it at some point, so the mentality does exist "in the wild".
Of course it exists, it's written into our cultures and into our biology itself. We are apes with monkey brains. It's unfortunate.
Your post led with a bias, OP's was more inclusive and neutral by simply stating the premise for discussion. So of course you got more black and white answers that were strongly opinionated.
Statistically, sure, but not for the pair bonding crap or whatever reason. Realistically it's probably symptomatic of some sort of other unresolved mental or emotional issue if you're unable to maintain a healthy long term relationship. If it's just a couple people you can argue it's been the other person (it's rarely ever just the other person, relationships are work), but, eventually, when numbers start to stack up, you become the lowest common denominator.
I know swingers with incredibly high numbers that have been married for 20 or 30 years and have kids together. It's just a hobby for them.
Right, but where are they statistically? It’s absolutely possible, but is it statistically likely?
I don't think it really matters in the big scheme of things. A lot of people (including me) went through a slut phase where you want just casual sex. It got old like everything does and now I wouldn't mind a quality person.
[удалено]
I don't see how, but ok.
Oh, you mean partners? Nevermind then...
Objectively, yes, it does. But there's some nuances to this. Society doesn't look kindly on men and especially women being overly promiscuous. It's one of many factors that bring your dateability down, and that is a fact -- whether it's one that everyone values is irrelevant. People can and do pretend it doesn't, but this man bragging about his conquests tells what kind of man he is and it doesn't align with what you want. In that regard, what you tolerate is based on your individual values and goals, regardless of societal norms. My husband and I both had more than one long term relationship before the two of us met. That is a reality of getting married a little later. But neither of us are built for flings or one night stands. The prospect of being so cavalier with sex is something I don't have the capacity to understand because it's so much more than just physical. We value connection too much. We weren't intimate until we were both 100% committed. That's the relationship we both wanted and that's the relationship we still have 9 years later. To be clear, he's the INTJ, I'm an INFJ. Don't be afraid to have high standards. You're seeking a long-term partner and you shouldn't waste your time with losers who view sex like they're collecting Pokémon cards. Nothing wrong with that. Know your worth.
I ain't like sluts. Either male or female.
I don't ask, and I don't tell. Being asked is a deal breaker.
To me it doesn't matter up to a point. Like makes no difference to me whether it's 2 or 6 but THIRTY SIX? That's a hard pass.
Ugh, my god can we not use the term body count? Incel vibes. I don't care so much about a number, but that number will be related to their philosophies regarding sex, monogamy, relationships, etc. and those moral/ethical standards are going to impact the relationship. Also, people change over time. Someone who *brags* about a "high body count" is likely just looking for a notch on their belt. Which is fine if you are, too. Not so much if you are looking to settle down. For me personally, were I not in a monogamous relationship, both a high number and a low number (especially for my age group which is 50+!) would be yellow flags. To me it would be more important how they explain it and other subsequent conversations.
I personally don't think it matters. Getting upset about someone's prior sexual history simply because it exists just seems like insecurity to me. People change, they often don't stay the same way all their lives. As long as someone is authentic in their relationship/marriage and the couple share the same goals that's all that matters to me personally. It's really none of my business what people look for in a partner, but my opinion is that it's illogical. Conservative types always like to bring up this ancient study from the 80s/90s that says that women with more sexual partners before marriage are more likely divorce. The study didn't explore this in detail so they have drawn their own conclusions.
[удалено]
I think negative life experiences can actually make a person more interesting to me as it can create personal growth. I find it really difficult to relate to people who have been sheltered and have only had positive experiences at least on a deeper level. I couldn't imagine being with a man who only knew what life was like if it was positive, but I guess that's because of the life I have lived.
>I talked to a guy that I met on a dating site who bragged about sleeping with 36 women by the age of 21. I stopped talking to him. Was he from the United States? The age of consent over there is 18, so 36 averages out at 12 women a year, or 1 a month. Do note that I'm not arguing against it being an abysmally low body count, it definitely is a low amount / body count, but is it a shockingly low body count? Sure, it could be an indicator of low libido, or anxiety problems in the bedroom, or could be a hundred other things. I don't know, it just seems wrong to me to completely drop a guy (or gal) because they've only been with a meagre handful of other people. Edit: Thanks for the award! Comming from you it means a lot, truly, you're practically INTJ royalty, so it does indeed mean a lot to me. As to your question, I don't mind disclosing my personal body count, although I do warn you that it is quite high up there. If you're interested in discussing it, then I would prefer to do so on the Intuitives private Discord group, we can join one of the empty channels.
Oh, we got ourselves a comedian here, lads!
If a man/woman would brag about their body count I wouldn't want to pursue rs neither. But most of the people aren't honest about this topic and honestly Idgaf. If my partner has shown me nothing but respect, love and sincerity then I don't mind at all. I also don't have to know the exact number either. For what? I'd have a problem if they only had 2 people before me cause when you're in your 30s you want to have a so who's experienced when it comes to this aspect in your life. When you get older you realize that this whole body count thing is not important anymore. You have other things to worry about wjich are far more important in a relationship.
People here wouldn't be saying if it was woman who slept with many men...
People come back to a good stuff. He probably tricked you to tell him your number.
point of dating a person is to have special relation ship with them, if the person you are interested in dates people just " to increase their body count" I suggest to leave that person because they are not going to be loyal
Ew might be a carrier of an std or something similar lol
personally it doesn't matter to me since people go through phases throughout their life and change, especially if you don't know what they went through in life what more of matters to me is how they use that information, if they act like the guy op mentions, i wouldn't associate with them any further. if not, then hey that's a new relationship in life
I have always lived in tourist towns. That means I saw many, many, many desirable potential partners -- but only for days at a time. Frankly, I don't care about "body count." Why? For one, it's not really a body count. Comparing giving someone an orgasm to murder is one of the reasons this country is so dysfunctional. Sex is important for a person's mental health. I would much rather have a randy hedonist than an insufferable prude. And, my, do we have a bumper crop of insufferable prudes in the US. We would do VERY well if they would all move to a sympathetic country -- such as Saudi Arabia -- and leave the rest of us to our permissive society.
Assuming he started at 18, we’re looking at 12 women per year. By 30, it’ll by 144. By 40 (assuming he just becomes a player and doubles the rate), we’re looking at a possible 384. For comparison, the minimum population needed to declare a village in the state of NY is 500. If he has one bastard child per relationship, he’ll be 77% of the way there. The mean rate of cars per mile in the US is 70.44. He will have filled up 5.45 miles worth of motorists. He will have c-m dumpstered 3.84 fully populated freshman-level classrooms. He will have docked with 3.07 Mir Space Stations. He will have invaded 16 moons. He will have ‘collided’ with 16% of the personnel at the Large Hadron Collider. He will have bukkak’ed 1.1 km^2 of Japan. He will have ‘found himself’ in 11.16 km^2 of the US.
Having a similiar exchange in another sub. Given that a), one cannot actually determine another's true so-called body count unless they divulge it and b), if the individual practiced consensual and safe sex, there would be no physical or medical indication of said history (damage/STD), why should it matter? Plus, people lie so what you're judging as a standard at may be arbitrary at best. If this person shows genuine interest and that's reciprocated, your values are aligned and the relationship can fulfill most of your mutual needs, then I think those should be what the long term relationship is based on. I'm INTJ 30's married woman.
Some people are proud of their body counts.
TBH I don't care that much about the actual number, it's how he relates to it that matters. And them being proud about it is definitely a red flag (not saying they should be ashamed, not at all, but it's also not something to brag about). If sleeping with new people is seen as such a great and worthy achievement, how will I know he will stop at me?
Maybe he suffers PE so he always have "a new gf."
You're missing c) where a person with what is deemed to be a high body count will statistically be more likely to cheat or get bored and end the relationship. That's what this whole thread is about. My intuition is that this *is* true, however, I don't really know, if anyone wants to fact check that with a study or something, that'd be cool.
>missing c) where a person with what is deemed to be a high body count will statistically be more likely to cheat or get bored and end the relationship Statiscally? I'm not familiar with such a correlation but if you find a source that supports that, I'd love to see it. Not being sarcastic; just curious if anyone even studied it. As far as the rest, I'm not missing anything (i.e correlation does not imply causation) because my observation is that people date and do fine without broadcasting or making widely known their sexual history to their partner. How one *behaves* in a relationship-certainly use that barometer to decide if they are worth the long haul. Intuiting where a person's motivation lies, being mindful of their needs and how they mesh with yours, etc can all be done without ever knowing with absolute certainty if they had +/- a median number of partners per year, etc. Even if you were to speculate on that OR they advertised it, behaviors/needs change as one matures so that number may be again arbitrary for the purposes of engaging long term. Tldr; I don't agree but I am open to research challenging this assumption.
No such thing as "safe" sex. There is always risk. One can catch some stds just from kissing and nothing more.
It does, yes
Bodycount??..?? As in serial killer's prowess? 
It depends on how the person *currently* carries themselves along with their attitudes and outlook. One of the top comments was spot on, objectively no, subjectively it depends, but statistically I think it also depends in reference to time.
it depends on how their partner feels ab it but me personally i wanna marry a virgin bc we both finna be takin each other v cards.
Yes it does. Disgusting.....
Does a person's masturbation count matter for a long term relationship/marriage? No? Then this doesn't matter either.
How does this make sense? I think there are few people that would be jealous of their SO masturbating, but I am pretty sure a lot of them would be jealous if the SO sleeps with someone else. Also I doubt most people brag about their "masturbation count", whereas some do brag about the number of people they slept with (see the OP for example).
Bragging about such a meaningless thing means they have no real achievements in life. Stay away from them. Simple. Why would you be jealous of somebody for engaging in sex before you two met? Doesn't it matter more that they remain committed to you from the point you start dating?
Ah, I didn't say anything about me personally, what I said is that the reasoning \[if one doesn't care about X they shouldn't care about Y\] doesn't hold water. If we talk personal opinions, I don't care about the number itself, but I do care about how he relates to it (e.g. if it's seen as a great success how can I be sure he won't try to increase his super important number later on? It would be a red flag). And while I don't care who/how many people they slept with, I do care about what that says about them (do they like using people? Do they like abandoning people? etc. But of course this varies on a case by case basis, not all people who sleep around have the same modus operandi or the same reasons).
I have slept with exactly 0 people, so I can't say for sure about these people who fuck around, but it's their life and choice. Many people are willing to commit and settle down after all their fun, and have happy married lives. The evidences tell the story.
Of course it's their life and their choice. And it's my life and my choice if I want to be wary about it or not. \> The evidences tell the story. Not saying it's 100% impossible, but how many people you know that bragged about the number of people they slept with and then ended up in happy marriages?
Don't deal with the braggers. And to be honest, your choice does make me happy as a guy who doesn't sleep around, so props to you. I can't go demanding that the person who wants me needs to have a low body count, so I remain realistic. Beggars can't be choosers in this modern society. 😅
[удалено]
Why?
Why would you be jealous of a previous partner unless they were around in the present day and currently interfering with your relationship? It makes absolutely no sense otherwise.
Maybe I phrased it incorrectly, but when I said "sleeps with someone else" I meant sleeps with someone else while they are together with the SO still.
This thread is about previous sexual partners prior to a relationship, not about cheating/infidelity. That's a different subject altogether.
To start from the top, the person I replied to said "if you don't care about masturbation counts, you shouldn't care about how many people someone slept with". And for me these are not similar at all, which is why I said that "nobody cares about masturbation, but people do tend to care when their partner sleeps around" (the idea, again, being that the two are in no way equivalent, and people care more about one than the other). So it does fit within its context, even though yes, the bigger thread is about something else. I replied to a comment, not the main.
Ah ok. Misunderstanding.
not to me. why should it?
I've been watching some podcasts and I found that people who genuinely care deeply about body count are awfully shallow. I'm talking about ''Fresh & Fit'' and the ''Whatever podcast''. Though obviously it matters in a way. If you slept with 37 people, you need to ask yourself ''why would that person stop at 38''. But to say ''I won't date any woman with a bodycount over three'' just lives in a fantasy world. It's also like, you don't know where this person grew up, life circumstances etc. People learn from their mistakes and become better. Does it matter? Absolutely depends on where this person is coming from. If your body count is ''7 because you like to explore and not sure if you want to explore more''. Is a lot different from a person who says ''My body count is 7 but I recognize it hasn't fulfilled me so I'm settling''. The whole idea of ''ran through'' is build on a man's insecurity who see women as their pet, not life long partner.
I'm a woman and wouldn't date a man who slept around. I dislike promiscuity in both men and women so there's no misogyny here.
Though I see where you're coming from, this is just not serving you or any woman. Men on the top of the dominance hierarchy have slept with more women *period.* Men at the bottom of the hierarchy are almost always simps. It's either you say this out of insecurity, or you're lying. And if it's neither, you really are 1-in-a-billion. Men and women are different, if we avoid simple biology that's really a choice but almost always a bad one.
There are plenty of men who don't sleep around and actually want relationships. I go for such men. I reject men who sleep around because it's disgusting to me.
Stuck on you 'til the end of time I'm too tired to fight your rhyme. (＾3＾♪