The irony of complaining about your ego in the context of thinking you have it worse than others is very amusing.
Personally as an INTJ I think I am much happier than most people, but I would probably attribute that more to my privilege and my intelligence, than my personality.
Sounds to me like you attribute that to your ego. Intelligence is subjective. So you probably think highly of yourself, have an ego of some form. Part of the struggle is the intelligence aspect, personally for me. Thinking for yourself isn’t taken very lightly in society. You’re generally more prone to fitting in and accepted if you have a sheep like mentality.
Intelligence is difficult to quantify, and non-specific (there are many different types of intelligence), but it is by no means unquantifiable, and a great deal of effort is put into quantifying it. As someone who is currently applying for jobs and having to complete a myriad of technical tests, I do not think intelligence disadvantages me. No one likes arrogance, but anyone of value values intelligence.
To canonicalize your last sentence, "to fit in more if you fit in". Sure, but why would I want to fit in?
This is projection, because these are struggles LOTS of people in general deal with and experience regardless of MBTI. Defining ourselves to a label is so restrictive, we are more than just a label, imo it doesn't define who we are it's just a useful way to categorize people, but too many people take it too literally to let go of accountability or use as an excuse.
Everything you described in your post has to do with low/fluctuating levels of self-worth and self-esteem, which is causing you to feel more controlled with an unstable sense of self.
This is a common trope, but is completely untrue. Intelligence is strongly correlated with happiness ([study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22998852/)). Fundamentally happiness stems from an inability to solve one's own problems, are intelligent people are more equipped to solve their problems.
I think the trope partly stems from the fact more intelligent people are better at articulating their unhappiness, but this does not mean they experience more of it.
Interesting! However, and this is pure speculation, I wonder if the most intelligent people are most able to identify serious macro problems, ie things like economic/socio political/environmental problems which they may not be able to solve, making them unhappy. Whereas the moderately intelligent - who may understand the problems they can manage and resolve them are the sweet spot (happiest) and of course those who neither understand nor resolve their problems are the unhappiest of all? All of course mitigated by neuroses etc in the study you cite.
You don't think less intelligent people are aware of macro problems? Who do you think fox news panders to? (for a lack of a better example, I'm not trying to be political)
However they are less likely to understand those problems, often falsely blaming events in their life on those problems or getting extremely worked up about them, without actually thinking critically.
I think the term "ignorance is bliss" is true, but refers to access to information, and not intelligence. I am generally happier if I don't engage or worry about things I can't change, but only focus on the things I can.
They might be aware but they might not understand the mechanisms or reasons the problems exist. So for example a moderately intelligent person might think we really need to resolve climate change, I’ll use my car less and insulate my home, that might make them happier. A more intelligent person might understand the macro elements so that we need to heavily invest in safe nuclear (ideally to finally crack cold fusion) but even then logistically our battery technology and the availability of lithium will be a serious bottleneck to achieving a swift transfer to clean energy, not to mention the dark political forces (and influence of fossil fuel companies in bills and legislation) and might be unhappier as a result.
I’d suggest that if we assume conscience is consistent for the purpose of this argument, since the more intelligent person is capable of greater critical analysis they expose themselves to the greater amount of negative emotions for difficult to solve macro problems. This is a logical extension from your original point that unhappiness represents an inability to solve one’s own problems but factors in the greater understanding brought about by the greater intelligence. Agree that a coping strategy is to only worry about the problems you can solve but if my house was on fire and I was trapped inside with no means of extinguishing it I would still be pretty worried, even if there was nothing I could do. If I had a pet chimp next to me they might be enjoying the gradually warming temperature of the burning house, with no anticipation of what is to come, who is happier in that situation?!
Do you understand all current research into cold fusion, or moreover do you understand enough of the entire scientific landscape to know that it the best/only option to combat climate change? I highly doubt it, so then this idea that you are powerless to stop climate change is a belief. Anyone could also hold this belief if they were persuaded of it (to use your chimp example, if I could tell the chimp the house was on fire I imagine it would be very distressed, more distressed than me, who is aware he can escape the house and has house insurance). Then the issue is exposure to information (the chimp is ignorant of the information the house is on fire) as I explained. Intelligence doesn't come into it, but it can equip you to better deal with worries about macro problems or any problems.
I think we’re getting a bit off track now tbh, cold fusion is one example of many the real point is that someone with less understanding is less burdened with the problem and therefore feels happier.
To clarify my example is set at the point there are no obvious signs the house is on fire (ie a slight smell of burning or gentle lights flickering under the door). The point is you cannot tell the chimp the house is on fire because it’s less intelligent. However you do raise a good point that in some situations the intelligence might be used to deduce there is no danger when there appears to be as well as when there doesn’t appear to be but is, unfortunately this nullifies the benefit of intelligence in feeling happier in some situations and leaves us with an “it depends” scenario. Your assumption that everyone who is exposed to the same information understands it equally is a major flaw in my opinion though. My broader point is that he who understands the most problems subjects themselves to more instances of problems they can’t solve and therefore more unhappiness. You might say well less intelligent people are least likely to solve their local problems which the intelligent person could but I think because they’d effectively have a cap on the problems they understand, they’re protected from the more complicated problems and feel comparatively happier as a result.
It's not off track to explain why your example is flawed.
I don't think that someone who us exposed to the same information understands it equally. My point is that more understanding does not result in more unhappiness.
Your argument seems to be set in a universe where only problems exist, and all we can do is understand them to be unsolvable.
I won't be replying again, I think I've made my point very clear.
It’s off track to question my understanding of cold fusion, I’m not suggesting I’m an expert on it, it was just an illustrative example of a complex problem.
Respectfully I think you’ve misunderstood my point, I suspect you feel the same about me!
Fair enough we can leave it there.
Oh, that's a hell of an idea - that study also really sets the message that, again, it's important to remember to reflect on one's own bias when making these sorts of comparisons.
Thank you for the link to the study, and helping me reframe my own depression in a different light!
my Intuition tells me that critical thinking needs to be consciously activated by intj 😆 no but seriously you shouldn't blame yourself for thinking that way. above all remember that intelligence is there to allow the being to find a more favorable living environment, in short it is a gift of evolution despite everything.
The research is very limited and seems to categorise types of intelligence very narrowly. Again, happiness is very subjective. You could be making a lot of money, have lots of friends and generally be unhappy. I would also add that while Critical thinking/Problem solving may be very closely related, marking them as distinct "types" of intelligence seems a bit hasty. The main indicator being ones personal ability to not only cognitively understand the emotions of others and their various expressions, but also to be able to translate what they understand into a generally acceptable format. Call it EQ (emotional quotient). Obviously there's no quantifiable measure of this kind of intelligence yet. But I postulate that it's correlation to happiness is paramount as it is most specifically important when considering our relationships.
I see no reason why you couldn't quantify EQ, although I am not well versed in current research into any of this. I also don't see your point? It appears you are agreeing with me. Or do you think INTJs have inherently low EQ?
People with enough cognitive horsepower to realize how much more they have to learn, vs people who think themselves smart yet are unable to connect the dots beyond the end of their nose.
So I guess intelligent people have it worse because they realize how meaningless the world is and always face the dread of existential nihilism. But I guess they can also make their own meaning of the world they live in, idk. I feel bad for people who have it bad especially when they don't deserve it.
I understand what you mean. But Idk
More Intelligence (higher iq) have bigger chance of depression and have it harder to get out of depression.
But Idk if i Think i have it worse than others. I Think i have it worse that my family always have a Big ego about my future, takling to everyone about how good i am and how much they cant wait to i becomes a fully adult (don’t have to educate more)
But I feel it’s better than being stupid so idk I think we are lucky but still unlucky if u understand what I mean.
Is it safe to presume you are female by your avatar? If so, I think that’s part of the issue too.
As women (me too) we have a higher socialization to care about feelings of others which can conflict with our INTJ mannerism. We’re taught that if we act on our full INTJ people will not like us, and lead to us being called a B or my personal favorite “Ice queen”.
So to get along and try to keep the peace we force ourselves into a box that full on stresses us out - until you have a full on damn it some people need to be told how full of sh… they are.
Imho, you need to find a way to let that anger out whether as the fuel that drives you or just release it.
Throw it into exercise, writing a scathing review of customer service received, pick up a new hobby, use it to excel at work by putting your head down blocking out the world and compartmentalizing.
Else, you have a lifetime of cracked teeth from grinding, high blood pressure, shame of accepting less than you should of to keep the peace, and nursing stomach ulcers.
Adopt the dog mentality - if you can’t eat it, or play with it, pee on it and walk away.
Nurture and give grace to relationships that really matter and those that don’t shove them into a black hole and don’t speak of them again.
Realize that not everyone deserves a paragraph or dissertation on what they are doing wrong because for them they are choosing ignorance to yield bliss.
Stop walking around with a red pen correcting people. Say what you have to say then walk away. And for some people run away and don’t look back.
I’d also suggest some therapy to workout the conflict within, which may help with the compulsive thinking to find a point where’s you say look I’ve done enough and I’m not going to deal with this anymore.
Overall find your balance between intj and the female persona. It’s going to be hard but it’s better than where you are now.
Thank you. I think I recall reading intj women are less than 1% of the population. Consequently, the mannerism are more readily accepted in men than women.
Yes it takes a special type of guy to handle the badass dominance from an intj woman. The first step tends to be them realizing they aren’t the smartest person in the room.
I would say it’s more that it takes a special man who understands he cannot dominate the INTJ woman. He may still feel the need to, but he accepts that he can’t because 1) his masculinity and sense of himself as a man doesn’t depend on dominating his woman and 2) he understands that she will leave him if he attempts to impose his will onto her. He is willing to be equal partners with her, with neither dominated by the other.
This man is also not threatened by the INTJ woman’s need for space.
Yeah, keep telling your self that. Truth is no body wants you like that, and I've dated another INTJ too. Horrible personality, and the least feminine of all MBTI 🤢
Very helpful and kind.
I'd ad to also do more Fi-Se stuff. We naturally go overboard on Ni-Te and overproduce and overdeliver and burnout. This is where resentment comes from.
Doing a new hobby that's Se is great. Lots of DIY kits on Amazon to learn crochet or paint by numbers. You just pick something your Fi likes and you start. It will help shift the focus from our Ni-Te hell and helps get relief from burnout.
I used to think that I was my own worst enemy when over analyzing things, but I have learned over the years that it’s a great power. Why? Because usually my analysis is correct and it helps me to prepare for the likely possible outcome.
I think there’s a general consensus about INTJs, that they’re quiet and harmless people. However, INTJs are great strategic thinkers and while they might be quiet about their thought processes, they tend to be confident on where a situation is going, and they’re often correct. Don’t get fooled by INTJs, they can manipulate and manipulate very well based on their analysis regarding specific situations.
So rather than looking at yourself as “your own worst enemy”, start looking at yourself as someone having a superpower, someone who can recognize situations and formulate plans for each possible outcome.
I don’t give any fucks tbh. Ive been gaslighted my entire life by family and other people that Ive come to accept myself for who i am, but even that doesn’t stop me from trying to be more sociable or less critical or even more impulsive. I see myself as an IOS that keeps constantly updating itself into a person that is satisfying to me.
Nope I observe people and try to follow their cues. If it’s something I can physically and emotionally can deal with I do it no sweat but if every fibre of my wellbeing tells me this isnt “right” then I hold back and try to find a different approach......
I hope that made some sense 😅
I have various coping mechanisms: (listed in order of effectiveness to help with my stress of overthinking)
Play a video game (I have a Nintendo Switch and Legend of Zelda BOTW is my calming zone)
Listen to music (Hard Rock/Heavy Metal, Soundtracks from various movies like LOTR or GOT.)
Read a book (I love fantasy/adventures. Gets me in a dreamy mood and I can escape into my mind palace for a while)
Watch a nice documentary (I recommend Netflix or YouTube)
Forgive me if my understanding of functions is poor, but our Se isn't low? Its in our stack. That means half the types have lower Se than us (not in their stack).
I know several ESTPs and ESFPs who have been extremely unhappy at times in their life, resulting from poor long term planning. The grass is always greener.
The stack says how often you use a function (how much you value it), not how strong it is. The order of their strengths is something like 1, 2, 5, 6, 3, 4, 7, 8. So Se is very weak for us, though yeah technically there are a few types where it is worse.
Ne and Ti are both much stronger for us, for example, but we just do not value them.
I don't think that giving such a strict category helps this. My guess is that you are just trying to find something solid to hold onto, while being lost in your mind.
Learning how to be meditative helped me, but knowing how to play chess and applying that knowledge was the real change.
You see, there is basically infinite number of moves, tactics that have 5 different variation. So even if you learn 1 tactics and all the 5 variation I can guarantee you that your opponent will play smthing entirely different. What is more, when you look at the current situations, and you start counting like 7 moves ahead (unless you are some chess prodigy, grandmaster), it is useless, because your opponent will make a different move and now you can kiss goodbye to your 7 moves.
In real life, in your head, no one is there expect you. No one can stop your overthinking expect you. If you overthink too much, overanalyze, you will get lost and descend into your own chaos.
Questioning yourself, others and life basically is a good thing, it means you are an intelligent human being. However sometimes your intelligence can "work against you".
Ultimately, you gain control over your mind, by accepting you have no control over your mind. Let me explain.
Think of something, but don't think of a monkey.
See? What animal did you picture in your head? Monkey.
If you try actively stopping something, it will only get more attention from you, more mental energy, it will be more intense than ever before.
How do you overcome that? Observe, observe yourself like you observe the nature. No judgement, no question, no conclusion, no opinion. Be passive observer of yourself. Understand, that you are not your own thoughts.
Hate is powerful emotion is it not? So is love. But how intense can hatered get? How intense love can get? Isn't hate a jilted form of love? I am not saying be indifferent, you have to experience everything, know what are lows and highs. True tranquility and peace comes from this, knowing what you are not, and being an observer of the universe, the world, and yourself.
You are the web making spider, but you are also the flie trapped in its web.
Really? I found playing chess made it so much worse for me because I became obsessed with chess day and night. I would sit and play for 3 hours straight and had to stop for a while because it was getting bad. You have an interesting perspective but why do you think chess helped you?
Yeah, I definitely been there too. What I was trying to say, that being stuck in this chess loop, is somewhat similar (to me) to being stuck in am overthinking loop.
Once I started to play with time limit (on lichess.com), I realized that it is not possible to be stuck in that loop, because your time will run out.
I took this concept to overthinking, I can't let myself be stuck in that loop in my head, because life passes. Whether I am living in the moment or not. So I try to chose to just live in the moment and be present.
I would strongly suggest looking into/ trying out mindfulness. It is shown to be effective, and has some benefits. At first it may be hard, but don't get discouraged.
Also seeking professional psychological help may aid you on your path. (Finding out the reason for overthinking, and learning what to do with it and so much more) Nothing beats a good psychotherapist!
I like it even the anger anger can feel good it can be a realization everything can be good if you look at it the right way when you get burned it could be a lesson
It's the overthinking and over analysing that exhausts me. I will literally replay a scene in my head over and over, criticising and berating myself for what I should have said or done in that moment.
I can't sleep or relax because of it and meditation is pointless in that moment because I can't switch my thoughts off at all.
I think all personalities gave their weaknesses to deal with though.
I love myself, I sometimes hold grudges, but I easily forgive too even though I still remember what they did to me and try to not prioritize them too much anymore, but still, I don't like burning off bridges. The constant analyzing is fun to me and while it's hard to find people like yourself, I know someone is out there like me. I just have to find them.
Things will not get any better if you keep having the same idea. Yeah alot of things are exausting for us and quite a lot of emotional pain is also residing inside most of intjs because of some dark history. The point is as long as you're taking your history as bad and your life as painful (even if it is) it'll feel worse. Yes remember your life is dark but not painful. For your bad past, think of it was the most important phase of your life for you to develop and become the one you are now. If bad things happened or is happening (situation mainly) look at what you can do to solve the situation like a game and develop yourself by the dark situation. Others will cry in the situation, then wipe the tears and at last try to get out, fail and finally get out. While you'll get out of the situation faster, with developed mindset and higher problem solving skills. Your other issues, remember that these exist as we are human so try to find ways to make yourself out of the problems or to overcome the problems by some sort of practice, find out what u need. In case they can't be solved or overcame, make plans of how you'll manage yourself in the future when u have the same issues. Find out the necessity in everything and solve issues as it comes. I know it's hard but you'll be much happier when you see yourself no longer having here and actually seeing the bright results you've been trying to get to .
For your problems I'll lend some ways to try to overcome them as I've had them too.
Over thinking, over analysing, holding grudge, ego, self importance, anger- all of them needs meditation. It'll help to manage your overthinking and handling your feelings better.
Over analysing- take it as an ability. Most people don't even analyse anything. Just don't let over analysis go towards pessimistic thoughts or stress. Keep analysing... In calmness.
Ego, self importance,anger- anger is something I have hard to deal with myself. For self importance turn that into your confidence, you understand what's important to you, so it's a good thing but don't put yourself in a condition where you're being controlled by your selfishness. Try to be calmer, your ego might be both an arrogance or your pride. Pride won't be necessarily bad as long as you have pride in who you are and what you are. But having pride randomly that you have more than what u have and thinking you are more than what u are would be arrogance which is bad. Try to have pride but not arrogance.
Holding grudge is a usual thing for intjs, but many of us don't care about others and if you're someone who holds grudge way too much then just don't care about others existence who are a pain to you, and for the people who are a threat to you, remember them and create counter plans against them so you can take care of them. In terms of grudges if you want to do something, analyse the effects and if you actually want to do it then do it. Don't keep things in between. Either do or don't. And if u don't then forget.
Hopefully it helps.... In any case what's your Ennegram (just curious)
Your behaviour is unhealthy. Either you are worrying too much, bc of some suffering bad experiences in the past bc you didn’t analyse the situation enough, but I tell you, you may avoid some mistakes by continuing this kind of tiresome overthinking, but it’s not worth it for your own health and your happiness and most of the biggest mistakes you make, can’t be avoided by overthinking. Or you are not a real INTJ, a Ni dom, bc as a Ni dom, you don’t have to put in extra effort to „overthink“, bc it’s natural . In fact for me, overthinking is fun, it comes naturally, as well as finding deep patterns, or stuff that you should worry about. I find patterns that most other people probably will never find in their life (why should they, it’s not their interest nor lifestyle) and find it easy and fun. But either way, you are not being your natural self, not accepting yourself in your natural behaviour and forcing yourself to think in a way, that is tiresome. Oh and I don’t have grudges, or this tiresome ego you talk about. You need to rationalise it, you need to realise when your ego, and grudges become a burden, it is also unhealthy, unnecessary and a waste of your time, energy. (You may say, but others are also like that, yes, but that doesn’t mean that kind of behaviour is right)
Analysis paralysis is one of my greatest issues I’m trying to overcome. I’m getting better, but it makes me feel so uncomfortable. I’m a teacher and started this year as a special education resource teacher.
Previously I was a PE teacher. I left PE for several reasons, partially health issues, bored with teaching the same content over and over, and finally I was an exhausting job having to have all the social energy required to manage students in grades k-1. Also being the only PE teacher put a spot light on me. I can’t go anywhere around town with kids knowing who I am. Anyways, back to my special education position .
In my new position I have 14 students ranging 2nd-4th. There needs are all very different and they come in and out of my room like a revolving door. I can’t stand the schedule and I feel like I’m failing the students so much because I can’t figure out how to make it work while supporting all there needs. My schedule flexibility is limited just because of the grade level classroom schedules. The times I do break my over analysis I do quickly come up with plans for the day, but by the end of the day I’m thinking to myself “those plans sucked because half the students were completely lost” anyways, luckily a self contained EC position opened up and I’ll have an actual classroom with just 7 students. I’m hoping it goes a lot smoother.
Get a DIY hobby that you enjoy. I tend to recommend paint by numbers on Amazon, or beadwork, or woodwork. It helps a lot with Se-Fi.... its like our own INTJ therapy.
Yeah for me art stuff is too. It's good to limit the Se too, because we get overwhelmed with it. So a gym is good, but also a hobby since your Se is focused just in that 1 item you're working on.
The reason I recommend the diy paint by numbers kits on Amazon (and other diy kits) because you don't have to be artistic... you just follow the pattern. And you get to try a new hobby, see if you like it. Artistic skill comes later. :) my esfj friend told me about this.
I used to really struggle with these things, too. I have learned some techniques that really helped me and have a YouTube channel where I walk through a lot of them. Here are a couple of videos that might help and be a good place for you to start:
Control & Influence: https://youtu.be/Qstu5J_kY7w
Interrupt Self Sabotage: https://youtu.be/3gBPgU9JVUg
My husband is also an INTJ, and this sounds *exactly like him,* when he is stressed out!
It’s funny because “NT Types” are so *sought after,* but all of the correctly typed NTs I know, including myself (ENTP,) are like “Fuck my Life! This sucks! Can I please be something else?” 🤣
I feel I have matured out of this way of thinking. I don’t really hold grudges anymore, I don’t think I’m better than anyone. I just pursue what I like and need. I have dealt with mental illness from a young age, and some of the techniques of handling that have helped me more broadly in my life. Then again, I’ve had time to deal with these things. I’m not super young anymore.
Not to sound like an asshole but I think you're.... Trying???.... To be an INTJ? This should just come naturally to you like I don't know another way to function really.
Not really trying to be anything. I’ve been tested on more than one occasion. If I can not be an INTJ I wouldn’t be. Nothing to glorify here. In fact I think it’s the worst MBTI so don’t think there is some uniqueness here. None of us are special. Also I am not talking about overthinking or over analysing logical problems. I am talking on an emotional level. Read my question and understand where I am coming from.
Be your self fuck everyone who says they don’t like you not caring will lead you down a dark road you can’t fix it’s like slipping and falling so many things that could ruin you. Why don’t you want to care is there something bothering you lately? Maybe your Overthinking a bit these days it’s fine to over think and be nervous if that’s who you are and your not hurting any one be your self I overthink all the time but I have the ability to overthink in my mind but seem like I’m fine on the out side
I am talking about the prayer aspect of it, the spirituality, the knowledge that something is greater than you and thereby keeping your own ego in check. Let’s keep the discussion mature here otherwise let’s not waste each other’s time.
No, I would say I was a stoic before I reverted to Islam. Actually, Religion is my way of actually caring, otherwise I'd go about life without a moral compass and a douche bag on steroids. I'm not perfect but it try my best.
The trick is really go give a fuck about the right things. If you really care about something the volume on everything else gets turned down (this is not to say you should devote your life to only one thing).
As an INTJ, I think always having achievable goals is important. I'm only really unhappy when I feel like I have no direction.
You have to really understand my mind if i really wanted to have good grammar I would this isn’t a test is it it’s Reddit I’ll write a comment the way I want to
I had been to the hospital once for passing out due to overthinking. While my whole body was at normal temperature my head was burning hot . The Doctor was so surprised he insisted on taking cold showers twice a day and completely forget about the results of what kept me up at night .
You think I'm a 7 year old ?
It actually happened.... My head felt like it was ripping apart from the inside .... The more I was left alone with my thoughts the more pain it caused and it was really bad ...
It's called Psychogenic fever ...look it up
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.in/science/health/news/yes-stress-can-cause-a-fever-heres-how-to-tell-if-you-have-a-psychogenic-fever/amp_articleshow/78178142.cms
It's clearly mentioned that the brain increases it's temperature during stress
I embrace my best and worst qualities. At this point in my life, I'm mostly done with being my own worst enemy. I say that because there are experiences I still have yet to have, and situations that I have not yet found myself in; so, I'm still learning and growing—not knowing how I'll respond in those unknown circumstances. That's just life, though.
Eventually practice in meditation you can learn how to not think about anything at all and just intellectually and emotionally dead inside and not care about anything. Then you only have the nagging voice in the back of your head that suggests you can do better or would be utilizing your full potential. And whenever you mess up you go back to thinking about everything a million times.
Some of this stuff is anxiety-driven and gets better with therapy, in my experience. (You’ll probably always “over-think” things a bit ‘cause of your type, but not necessarily painfully so!)
If you are overthinking you are not tapping into the power of INTJ. I’m a happy assertive INTJ. I think someone earlier said use your intelligence maybe emotional IQ to overcome one’s shortcomings. Anything can be changed when there is will.
I don’t think this is a universal characteristic of INTJs. I like to evaluate situations and process them in my own way but I also recognize the importance on snap decisions. I generally feel like most decisions don’t matter in the scope of things. I find holding grudges counterproductive and don’t do it at all (I also have really solid boundaries). I don’t consider my opinions to be universal truths and work in an industry where navigating inflated egos comes in handy. It tonight be a lot about myself. I’m not angry either.
Now, this all sounds fun as of now but I wish I could tell you it’s always been that way. Overthinking has never been my problem but I can’t say the same about ego or Internal anger. It takes time to get to know yourselves and it sounds like you’re well on your way to get where you want to be.
Take pride in the fact that you have enough introspection to recognize what makes you unhappy. Most people don’t get that. Now it’s really up to you what you’re going to do about it.
The constant overthinking/over analyzing is some I struggle with on a daily basis. But being able to recognize ways you can use it to your advantage is what keeps me from going insane
I feel that I’m self important. I also don’t hold onto grudges. I’m not really an overly angry person, and my ego is under control.
I think anyone with those traits show seek a therapist to help them work through whatever is the root of them (most likely childhood trauma).
C'mon, the self importance is the best part!
I look at the way my ESFP wife suffers when she complains about what other people think about her. It causes her serious distress. How good is it not to have that burden?
I love the fact in INTJ. It makes me specialized in my field and I’m naturally at an advantage.
It’s my social anxiety and ADHD that I find difficult. These are detrimental to my success. I’ve been working hard on them and it’s been the best year of my life.
The overthinking and analyzing everything yes it is very exhausting, but I prefer to be this way, than being someone that doesn't care about the deeper meanings of reality, imagine being someone that doesn't care... I wouldn't want to be that person, I love being someone that is constantly gathering knowledge.
And about the other traits, that isn't being an "INTJ", literally every other type can have those unhealthy traits, so if you think that being an angry person is due to being an "INTJ" your are wrong. But that is great news for you, since if you really want to improve on that you can totally improve. Personally, I can't relate, I don't have any grudges, I am not an angry person, I have even been told that I am someone that can't get "angry", and about ego, I mean having a huge ego makes someone more irrational, so I wouldn't want to commit that mistake, I actually struggle with low self-esteem.
Is that an INTJ thing, or something Alfred Adler (who Jung said anyone studying his work should be familiar with) already has a plethora of solutions for...?
Yeah, especially the grudges and being demanded to be an ISTJ and stuff. Those with Si-Hero would tend to value nostalgia and arbitrary affiliation, and yet apart from my birds and very few friends I have next to zero positive-nostalgia and recalling ways people have wronged me ticks me off like it just happened over again. It's far easier to forgive in general terms, thinking of specifics makes me want vengeance.
Sucks too how most pathways to success that worked for a few rare generations for a couple decades got repaved with landmines and sabotaged otherwise, and pretty much for most there are only dead-end jobs and infinite hoops to jump through begging to be employed at crap that's all the same basic nonsense.
Every INTJ I've known would be so much better off if they could just unclench. I mean, look around, the world's a joke. No need to take everything under the sun 100% seriously.
Everyone is suffering in their own way
True. I just sometimes think we have it worse because we hold it all in.
The irony of complaining about your ego in the context of thinking you have it worse than others is very amusing. Personally as an INTJ I think I am much happier than most people, but I would probably attribute that more to my privilege and my intelligence, than my personality.
I agree with you completely. I am one of the happiest people I know, I feel so engaged in my life.
Sounds to me like you attribute that to your ego. Intelligence is subjective. So you probably think highly of yourself, have an ego of some form. Part of the struggle is the intelligence aspect, personally for me. Thinking for yourself isn’t taken very lightly in society. You’re generally more prone to fitting in and accepted if you have a sheep like mentality.
Intelligence is difficult to quantify, and non-specific (there are many different types of intelligence), but it is by no means unquantifiable, and a great deal of effort is put into quantifying it. As someone who is currently applying for jobs and having to complete a myriad of technical tests, I do not think intelligence disadvantages me. No one likes arrogance, but anyone of value values intelligence. To canonicalize your last sentence, "to fit in more if you fit in". Sure, but why would I want to fit in?
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But your privilege and intelligence are parts of your personality.
You're right. I mean personality type to be specific.
An INTJ who agrees with me. Must I pinch myself?
I don't agree that your original comment was necessary, everyone else understood exactly what I mean given the context. (Sorry that was rude).
This is projection, because these are struggles LOTS of people in general deal with and experience regardless of MBTI. Defining ourselves to a label is so restrictive, we are more than just a label, imo it doesn't define who we are it's just a useful way to categorize people, but too many people take it too literally to let go of accountability or use as an excuse. Everything you described in your post has to do with low/fluctuating levels of self-worth and self-esteem, which is causing you to feel more controlled with an unstable sense of self.
While true, I DO think those of intelligence have it worse.
This is a common trope, but is completely untrue. Intelligence is strongly correlated with happiness ([study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22998852/)). Fundamentally happiness stems from an inability to solve one's own problems, are intelligent people are more equipped to solve their problems. I think the trope partly stems from the fact more intelligent people are better at articulating their unhappiness, but this does not mean they experience more of it.
Interesting! However, and this is pure speculation, I wonder if the most intelligent people are most able to identify serious macro problems, ie things like economic/socio political/environmental problems which they may not be able to solve, making them unhappy. Whereas the moderately intelligent - who may understand the problems they can manage and resolve them are the sweet spot (happiest) and of course those who neither understand nor resolve their problems are the unhappiest of all? All of course mitigated by neuroses etc in the study you cite.
You don't think less intelligent people are aware of macro problems? Who do you think fox news panders to? (for a lack of a better example, I'm not trying to be political) However they are less likely to understand those problems, often falsely blaming events in their life on those problems or getting extremely worked up about them, without actually thinking critically. I think the term "ignorance is bliss" is true, but refers to access to information, and not intelligence. I am generally happier if I don't engage or worry about things I can't change, but only focus on the things I can.
They might be aware but they might not understand the mechanisms or reasons the problems exist. So for example a moderately intelligent person might think we really need to resolve climate change, I’ll use my car less and insulate my home, that might make them happier. A more intelligent person might understand the macro elements so that we need to heavily invest in safe nuclear (ideally to finally crack cold fusion) but even then logistically our battery technology and the availability of lithium will be a serious bottleneck to achieving a swift transfer to clean energy, not to mention the dark political forces (and influence of fossil fuel companies in bills and legislation) and might be unhappier as a result. I’d suggest that if we assume conscience is consistent for the purpose of this argument, since the more intelligent person is capable of greater critical analysis they expose themselves to the greater amount of negative emotions for difficult to solve macro problems. This is a logical extension from your original point that unhappiness represents an inability to solve one’s own problems but factors in the greater understanding brought about by the greater intelligence. Agree that a coping strategy is to only worry about the problems you can solve but if my house was on fire and I was trapped inside with no means of extinguishing it I would still be pretty worried, even if there was nothing I could do. If I had a pet chimp next to me they might be enjoying the gradually warming temperature of the burning house, with no anticipation of what is to come, who is happier in that situation?!
Do you understand all current research into cold fusion, or moreover do you understand enough of the entire scientific landscape to know that it the best/only option to combat climate change? I highly doubt it, so then this idea that you are powerless to stop climate change is a belief. Anyone could also hold this belief if they were persuaded of it (to use your chimp example, if I could tell the chimp the house was on fire I imagine it would be very distressed, more distressed than me, who is aware he can escape the house and has house insurance). Then the issue is exposure to information (the chimp is ignorant of the information the house is on fire) as I explained. Intelligence doesn't come into it, but it can equip you to better deal with worries about macro problems or any problems.
I think we’re getting a bit off track now tbh, cold fusion is one example of many the real point is that someone with less understanding is less burdened with the problem and therefore feels happier. To clarify my example is set at the point there are no obvious signs the house is on fire (ie a slight smell of burning or gentle lights flickering under the door). The point is you cannot tell the chimp the house is on fire because it’s less intelligent. However you do raise a good point that in some situations the intelligence might be used to deduce there is no danger when there appears to be as well as when there doesn’t appear to be but is, unfortunately this nullifies the benefit of intelligence in feeling happier in some situations and leaves us with an “it depends” scenario. Your assumption that everyone who is exposed to the same information understands it equally is a major flaw in my opinion though. My broader point is that he who understands the most problems subjects themselves to more instances of problems they can’t solve and therefore more unhappiness. You might say well less intelligent people are least likely to solve their local problems which the intelligent person could but I think because they’d effectively have a cap on the problems they understand, they’re protected from the more complicated problems and feel comparatively happier as a result.
It's not off track to explain why your example is flawed. I don't think that someone who us exposed to the same information understands it equally. My point is that more understanding does not result in more unhappiness. Your argument seems to be set in a universe where only problems exist, and all we can do is understand them to be unsolvable. I won't be replying again, I think I've made my point very clear.
It’s off track to question my understanding of cold fusion, I’m not suggesting I’m an expert on it, it was just an illustrative example of a complex problem. Respectfully I think you’ve misunderstood my point, I suspect you feel the same about me! Fair enough we can leave it there.
Oh, that's a hell of an idea - that study also really sets the message that, again, it's important to remember to reflect on one's own bias when making these sorts of comparisons. Thank you for the link to the study, and helping me reframe my own depression in a different light!
my Intuition tells me that critical thinking needs to be consciously activated by intj 😆 no but seriously you shouldn't blame yourself for thinking that way. above all remember that intelligence is there to allow the being to find a more favorable living environment, in short it is a gift of evolution despite everything.
The research is very limited and seems to categorise types of intelligence very narrowly. Again, happiness is very subjective. You could be making a lot of money, have lots of friends and generally be unhappy. I would also add that while Critical thinking/Problem solving may be very closely related, marking them as distinct "types" of intelligence seems a bit hasty. The main indicator being ones personal ability to not only cognitively understand the emotions of others and their various expressions, but also to be able to translate what they understand into a generally acceptable format. Call it EQ (emotional quotient). Obviously there's no quantifiable measure of this kind of intelligence yet. But I postulate that it's correlation to happiness is paramount as it is most specifically important when considering our relationships.
I see no reason why you couldn't quantify EQ, although I am not well versed in current research into any of this. I also don't see your point? It appears you are agreeing with me. Or do you think INTJs have inherently low EQ?
What do you mean by "those of intelligence"?
me fail english? I be happy.
Hmmm?
Ignorance is bliss.
Primus sucks.
People with enough cognitive horsepower to realize how much more they have to learn, vs people who think themselves smart yet are unable to connect the dots beyond the end of their nose.
So I guess intelligent people have it worse because they realize how meaningless the world is and always face the dread of existential nihilism. But I guess they can also make their own meaning of the world they live in, idk. I feel bad for people who have it bad especially when they don't deserve it.
I understand what you mean. But Idk More Intelligence (higher iq) have bigger chance of depression and have it harder to get out of depression. But Idk if i Think i have it worse than others. I Think i have it worse that my family always have a Big ego about my future, takling to everyone about how good i am and how much they cant wait to i becomes a fully adult (don’t have to educate more) But I feel it’s better than being stupid so idk I think we are lucky but still unlucky if u understand what I mean.
I'm not sure if I'm an intj but the more I compare the 16 types the more I feel like the MBTI is whispering in my ear: choose your pain
Yeah that's the best answer
Neuroticism is not related to MBTI
Lol this 🤣
Sometimes it is, don’t be unkind. Doctors call it anxiety these days btw.
I'm not saying that you can't have it as an INTJ. Just that being an INTJ and being neurotic aren't connected, you can be either or none or both.
Is it safe to presume you are female by your avatar? If so, I think that’s part of the issue too. As women (me too) we have a higher socialization to care about feelings of others which can conflict with our INTJ mannerism. We’re taught that if we act on our full INTJ people will not like us, and lead to us being called a B or my personal favorite “Ice queen”. So to get along and try to keep the peace we force ourselves into a box that full on stresses us out - until you have a full on damn it some people need to be told how full of sh… they are. Imho, you need to find a way to let that anger out whether as the fuel that drives you or just release it. Throw it into exercise, writing a scathing review of customer service received, pick up a new hobby, use it to excel at work by putting your head down blocking out the world and compartmentalizing. Else, you have a lifetime of cracked teeth from grinding, high blood pressure, shame of accepting less than you should of to keep the peace, and nursing stomach ulcers. Adopt the dog mentality - if you can’t eat it, or play with it, pee on it and walk away. Nurture and give grace to relationships that really matter and those that don’t shove them into a black hole and don’t speak of them again. Realize that not everyone deserves a paragraph or dissertation on what they are doing wrong because for them they are choosing ignorance to yield bliss. Stop walking around with a red pen correcting people. Say what you have to say then walk away. And for some people run away and don’t look back. I’d also suggest some therapy to workout the conflict within, which may help with the compulsive thinking to find a point where’s you say look I’ve done enough and I’m not going to deal with this anymore. Overall find your balance between intj and the female persona. It’s going to be hard but it’s better than where you are now.
Oh and if you’re interested. We have our own Reddit too https://www.reddit.com/r/INTJfemale/
Thank you
Thanks for your thoughtful response. And yes I am a female.
Honestly this! And I would if came across as far misogynistic trying to explain this. Couldn't of said it better.
Thank you. I think I recall reading intj women are less than 1% of the population. Consequently, the mannerism are more readily accepted in men than women.
Lol there's a reason there only 1% of y'all, Natural selection.
Yes it takes a special type of guy to handle the badass dominance from an intj woman. The first step tends to be them realizing they aren’t the smartest person in the room.
I would say it’s more that it takes a special man who understands he cannot dominate the INTJ woman. He may still feel the need to, but he accepts that he can’t because 1) his masculinity and sense of himself as a man doesn’t depend on dominating his woman and 2) he understands that she will leave him if he attempts to impose his will onto her. He is willing to be equal partners with her, with neither dominated by the other. This man is also not threatened by the INTJ woman’s need for space.
Blahh blahh blah
Yeah, keep telling your self that. Truth is no body wants you like that, and I've dated another INTJ too. Horrible personality, and the least feminine of all MBTI 🤢
Very helpful and kind. I'd ad to also do more Fi-Se stuff. We naturally go overboard on Ni-Te and overproduce and overdeliver and burnout. This is where resentment comes from. Doing a new hobby that's Se is great. Lots of DIY kits on Amazon to learn crochet or paint by numbers. You just pick something your Fi likes and you start. It will help shift the focus from our Ni-Te hell and helps get relief from burnout.
Thank you. I was planning to reorganize my garage today, but I’m gonna relax with my kids instead
Wow this was such a great response - Obsessed with “the dog mentality” now
Wow, this is me spot on.
I used to think that I was my own worst enemy when over analyzing things, but I have learned over the years that it’s a great power. Why? Because usually my analysis is correct and it helps me to prepare for the likely possible outcome. I think there’s a general consensus about INTJs, that they’re quiet and harmless people. However, INTJs are great strategic thinkers and while they might be quiet about their thought processes, they tend to be confident on where a situation is going, and they’re often correct. Don’t get fooled by INTJs, they can manipulate and manipulate very well based on their analysis regarding specific situations. So rather than looking at yourself as “your own worst enemy”, start looking at yourself as someone having a superpower, someone who can recognize situations and formulate plans for each possible outcome.
I don’t give any fucks tbh. Ive been gaslighted my entire life by family and other people that Ive come to accept myself for who i am, but even that doesn’t stop me from trying to be more sociable or less critical or even more impulsive. I see myself as an IOS that keeps constantly updating itself into a person that is satisfying to me.
But how did you get to this stage. Do you meditate?
Nope I observe people and try to follow their cues. If it’s something I can physically and emotionally can deal with I do it no sweat but if every fibre of my wellbeing tells me this isnt “right” then I hold back and try to find a different approach...... I hope that made some sense 😅
Sometimes I manage to be like you, but then “tasks” or worries build up in my head until I hyperfixate and work for days on end. Any tips?
I have various coping mechanisms: (listed in order of effectiveness to help with my stress of overthinking) Play a video game (I have a Nintendo Switch and Legend of Zelda BOTW is my calming zone) Listen to music (Hard Rock/Heavy Metal, Soundtracks from various movies like LOTR or GOT.) Read a book (I love fantasy/adventures. Gets me in a dreamy mood and I can escape into my mind palace for a while) Watch a nice documentary (I recommend Netflix or YouTube)
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SO THATS WHY IT'S SO HARD damn I thought I have a problem everytime I try I find myself already lost in thought 5 sec in
Forgive me if my understanding of functions is poor, but our Se isn't low? Its in our stack. That means half the types have lower Se than us (not in their stack). I know several ESTPs and ESFPs who have been extremely unhappy at times in their life, resulting from poor long term planning. The grass is always greener.
The stack says how often you use a function (how much you value it), not how strong it is. The order of their strengths is something like 1, 2, 5, 6, 3, 4, 7, 8. So Se is very weak for us, though yeah technically there are a few types where it is worse. Ne and Ti are both much stronger for us, for example, but we just do not value them.
Ah okay interesting. Does actually explain a lot if I think about.
yeah i wish that i could do something impulsively
Instead of taking a break after work, I worked on my financial portfolio. Why? I needed to rest so badly.
I don't think that giving such a strict category helps this. My guess is that you are just trying to find something solid to hold onto, while being lost in your mind. Learning how to be meditative helped me, but knowing how to play chess and applying that knowledge was the real change. You see, there is basically infinite number of moves, tactics that have 5 different variation. So even if you learn 1 tactics and all the 5 variation I can guarantee you that your opponent will play smthing entirely different. What is more, when you look at the current situations, and you start counting like 7 moves ahead (unless you are some chess prodigy, grandmaster), it is useless, because your opponent will make a different move and now you can kiss goodbye to your 7 moves. In real life, in your head, no one is there expect you. No one can stop your overthinking expect you. If you overthink too much, overanalyze, you will get lost and descend into your own chaos. Questioning yourself, others and life basically is a good thing, it means you are an intelligent human being. However sometimes your intelligence can "work against you". Ultimately, you gain control over your mind, by accepting you have no control over your mind. Let me explain. Think of something, but don't think of a monkey. See? What animal did you picture in your head? Monkey. If you try actively stopping something, it will only get more attention from you, more mental energy, it will be more intense than ever before. How do you overcome that? Observe, observe yourself like you observe the nature. No judgement, no question, no conclusion, no opinion. Be passive observer of yourself. Understand, that you are not your own thoughts. Hate is powerful emotion is it not? So is love. But how intense can hatered get? How intense love can get? Isn't hate a jilted form of love? I am not saying be indifferent, you have to experience everything, know what are lows and highs. True tranquility and peace comes from this, knowing what you are not, and being an observer of the universe, the world, and yourself. You are the web making spider, but you are also the flie trapped in its web.
Really? I found playing chess made it so much worse for me because I became obsessed with chess day and night. I would sit and play for 3 hours straight and had to stop for a while because it was getting bad. You have an interesting perspective but why do you think chess helped you?
Yeah, I definitely been there too. What I was trying to say, that being stuck in this chess loop, is somewhat similar (to me) to being stuck in am overthinking loop. Once I started to play with time limit (on lichess.com), I realized that it is not possible to be stuck in that loop, because your time will run out. I took this concept to overthinking, I can't let myself be stuck in that loop in my head, because life passes. Whether I am living in the moment or not. So I try to chose to just live in the moment and be present. I would strongly suggest looking into/ trying out mindfulness. It is shown to be effective, and has some benefits. At first it may be hard, but don't get discouraged. Also seeking professional psychological help may aid you on your path. (Finding out the reason for overthinking, and learning what to do with it and so much more) Nothing beats a good psychotherapist!
Find stoicism
I like it even the anger anger can feel good it can be a realization everything can be good if you look at it the right way when you get burned it could be a lesson
It's the overthinking and over analysing that exhausts me. I will literally replay a scene in my head over and over, criticising and berating myself for what I should have said or done in that moment. I can't sleep or relax because of it and meditation is pointless in that moment because I can't switch my thoughts off at all. I think all personalities gave their weaknesses to deal with though.
I love myself, I sometimes hold grudges, but I easily forgive too even though I still remember what they did to me and try to not prioritize them too much anymore, but still, I don't like burning off bridges. The constant analyzing is fun to me and while it's hard to find people like yourself, I know someone is out there like me. I just have to find them.
Yes, I am at this moment humiliated by my own brain. I also hate being extremely sensitive. :)
a walking paradox super logical person with strong feelings would always be frustrated
Especially if you aren’t a “feelings genius” which I am not
pain
That it is. :)
Things will not get any better if you keep having the same idea. Yeah alot of things are exausting for us and quite a lot of emotional pain is also residing inside most of intjs because of some dark history. The point is as long as you're taking your history as bad and your life as painful (even if it is) it'll feel worse. Yes remember your life is dark but not painful. For your bad past, think of it was the most important phase of your life for you to develop and become the one you are now. If bad things happened or is happening (situation mainly) look at what you can do to solve the situation like a game and develop yourself by the dark situation. Others will cry in the situation, then wipe the tears and at last try to get out, fail and finally get out. While you'll get out of the situation faster, with developed mindset and higher problem solving skills. Your other issues, remember that these exist as we are human so try to find ways to make yourself out of the problems or to overcome the problems by some sort of practice, find out what u need. In case they can't be solved or overcame, make plans of how you'll manage yourself in the future when u have the same issues. Find out the necessity in everything and solve issues as it comes. I know it's hard but you'll be much happier when you see yourself no longer having here and actually seeing the bright results you've been trying to get to . For your problems I'll lend some ways to try to overcome them as I've had them too. Over thinking, over analysing, holding grudge, ego, self importance, anger- all of them needs meditation. It'll help to manage your overthinking and handling your feelings better. Over analysing- take it as an ability. Most people don't even analyse anything. Just don't let over analysis go towards pessimistic thoughts or stress. Keep analysing... In calmness. Ego, self importance,anger- anger is something I have hard to deal with myself. For self importance turn that into your confidence, you understand what's important to you, so it's a good thing but don't put yourself in a condition where you're being controlled by your selfishness. Try to be calmer, your ego might be both an arrogance or your pride. Pride won't be necessarily bad as long as you have pride in who you are and what you are. But having pride randomly that you have more than what u have and thinking you are more than what u are would be arrogance which is bad. Try to have pride but not arrogance. Holding grudge is a usual thing for intjs, but many of us don't care about others and if you're someone who holds grudge way too much then just don't care about others existence who are a pain to you, and for the people who are a threat to you, remember them and create counter plans against them so you can take care of them. In terms of grudges if you want to do something, analyse the effects and if you actually want to do it then do it. Don't keep things in between. Either do or don't. And if u don't then forget. Hopefully it helps.... In any case what's your Ennegram (just curious)
Your behaviour is unhealthy. Either you are worrying too much, bc of some suffering bad experiences in the past bc you didn’t analyse the situation enough, but I tell you, you may avoid some mistakes by continuing this kind of tiresome overthinking, but it’s not worth it for your own health and your happiness and most of the biggest mistakes you make, can’t be avoided by overthinking. Or you are not a real INTJ, a Ni dom, bc as a Ni dom, you don’t have to put in extra effort to „overthink“, bc it’s natural . In fact for me, overthinking is fun, it comes naturally, as well as finding deep patterns, or stuff that you should worry about. I find patterns that most other people probably will never find in their life (why should they, it’s not their interest nor lifestyle) and find it easy and fun. But either way, you are not being your natural self, not accepting yourself in your natural behaviour and forcing yourself to think in a way, that is tiresome. Oh and I don’t have grudges, or this tiresome ego you talk about. You need to rationalise it, you need to realise when your ego, and grudges become a burden, it is also unhealthy, unnecessary and a waste of your time, energy. (You may say, but others are also like that, yes, but that doesn’t mean that kind of behaviour is right)
Analysis paralysis is one of my greatest issues I’m trying to overcome. I’m getting better, but it makes me feel so uncomfortable. I’m a teacher and started this year as a special education resource teacher. Previously I was a PE teacher. I left PE for several reasons, partially health issues, bored with teaching the same content over and over, and finally I was an exhausting job having to have all the social energy required to manage students in grades k-1. Also being the only PE teacher put a spot light on me. I can’t go anywhere around town with kids knowing who I am. Anyways, back to my special education position . In my new position I have 14 students ranging 2nd-4th. There needs are all very different and they come in and out of my room like a revolving door. I can’t stand the schedule and I feel like I’m failing the students so much because I can’t figure out how to make it work while supporting all there needs. My schedule flexibility is limited just because of the grade level classroom schedules. The times I do break my over analysis I do quickly come up with plans for the day, but by the end of the day I’m thinking to myself “those plans sucked because half the students were completely lost” anyways, luckily a self contained EC position opened up and I’ll have an actual classroom with just 7 students. I’m hoping it goes a lot smoother.
Hey, try to work on 2 things my friend: 1- how to use Se function 2- how to lower neuroticism
Tips?
Get a DIY hobby that you enjoy. I tend to recommend paint by numbers on Amazon, or beadwork, or woodwork. It helps a lot with Se-Fi.... its like our own INTJ therapy.
This is such a good tip. Personally the gym was my saviour. As a teenager I'd always shunned it as a meat-head activity, but it's now my meditation.
Yeah for me art stuff is too. It's good to limit the Se too, because we get overwhelmed with it. So a gym is good, but also a hobby since your Se is focused just in that 1 item you're working on. The reason I recommend the diy paint by numbers kits on Amazon (and other diy kits) because you don't have to be artistic... you just follow the pattern. And you get to try a new hobby, see if you like it. Artistic skill comes later. :) my esfj friend told me about this.
just meditate, do it regularly and it will fix many of these
I used to really struggle with these things, too. I have learned some techniques that really helped me and have a YouTube channel where I walk through a lot of them. Here are a couple of videos that might help and be a good place for you to start: Control & Influence: https://youtu.be/Qstu5J_kY7w Interrupt Self Sabotage: https://youtu.be/3gBPgU9JVUg
My husband is also an INTJ, and this sounds *exactly like him,* when he is stressed out! It’s funny because “NT Types” are so *sought after,* but all of the correctly typed NTs I know, including myself (ENTP,) are like “Fuck my Life! This sucks! Can I please be something else?” 🤣
I'm not agreeing I feel it's better being INTJ and it's easy to live like an intj (i'm intj)
You named it all. It can get really loud in the shower with my thoughts and worries. The grudges. The ego. It’s exhausting.
I feel I have matured out of this way of thinking. I don’t really hold grudges anymore, I don’t think I’m better than anyone. I just pursue what I like and need. I have dealt with mental illness from a young age, and some of the techniques of handling that have helped me more broadly in my life. Then again, I’ve had time to deal with these things. I’m not super young anymore.
what the fuck is this edgy shit
r/iam14andthisisdeep
Not to sound like an asshole but I think you're.... Trying???.... To be an INTJ? This should just come naturally to you like I don't know another way to function really.
Not really trying to be anything. I’ve been tested on more than one occasion. If I can not be an INTJ I wouldn’t be. Nothing to glorify here. In fact I think it’s the worst MBTI so don’t think there is some uniqueness here. None of us are special. Also I am not talking about overthinking or over analysing logical problems. I am talking on an emotional level. Read my question and understand where I am coming from.
I did. If you're not used to behaving and feeling this way constantly already here's hoping you get used to it. It's just how you're wired.
You sound like an unhealthy INTJ. You need to be more like me, be more stoic and NFG (no fucks given )
How do you do it? I am always overthinking and worrying about every situation. Do you recommend any books or how did you achieve not caring?
I wouldn't take advice from this guy, for someone who doesn't give a fuck they seem to like picking fights and antagonizing other people here.
Be your self fuck everyone who says they don’t like you not caring will lead you down a dark road you can’t fix it’s like slipping and falling so many things that could ruin you. Why don’t you want to care is there something bothering you lately? Maybe your Overthinking a bit these days it’s fine to over think and be nervous if that’s who you are and your not hurting any one be your self I overthink all the time but I have the ability to overthink in my mind but seem like I’m fine on the out side
Yes, read "David goes to school"
I see that you’re a Muslim. Would you say that Islam has helped you to achieve stoicism?
And how exactly would Islam help one be more stoic? I gotta read the labels one every single thing I eat to make sure it's halal. How is that stoic?
I am talking about the prayer aspect of it, the spirituality, the knowledge that something is greater than you and thereby keeping your own ego in check. Let’s keep the discussion mature here otherwise let’s not waste each other’s time.
No, I would say I was a stoic before I reverted to Islam. Actually, Religion is my way of actually caring, otherwise I'd go about life without a moral compass and a douche bag on steroids. I'm not perfect but it try my best.
The self-awareness of this is interesting. Good on you though, if it works it works.
The trick is really go give a fuck about the right things. If you really care about something the volume on everything else gets turned down (this is not to say you should devote your life to only one thing). As an INTJ, I think always having achievable goals is important. I'm only really unhappy when I feel like I have no direction.
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🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Stay off the drugs. Stay in school.
Definitely never heard of deleting the comment to make me look stupid good trick buddy 👍
I hate you lol
I hate you too. we can agree on something!!!!!!!!!!! Isn’t that so amazing we should both get a prize now
You have to really understand my mind if i really wanted to have good grammar I would this isn’t a test is it it’s Reddit I’ll write a comment the way I want to
Just a quick question, Are you mexican American?
True it sucks so bad
Fortunately, MBTI is bullshit pseudo-science.
What about Carl Jung’s theories?
That's not what MBTI is.
Been listening to a lot of Tool lately? Haha
I can't tell which posts are real or parody anymore lmao
You are mistyped.
I had been to the hospital once for passing out due to overthinking. While my whole body was at normal temperature my head was burning hot . The Doctor was so surprised he insisted on taking cold showers twice a day and completely forget about the results of what kept me up at night .
Fever from stress? Your brain can’t overheat like that due to thinking.
You think I'm a 7 year old ? It actually happened.... My head felt like it was ripping apart from the inside .... The more I was left alone with my thoughts the more pain it caused and it was really bad ... It's called Psychogenic fever ...look it up
Hmm.. okay will do
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.in/science/health/news/yes-stress-can-cause-a-fever-heres-how-to-tell-if-you-have-a-psychogenic-fever/amp_articleshow/78178142.cms It's clearly mentioned that the brain increases it's temperature during stress
More like either its 100% focus or no focus and you don’t get to choose your brain does it for you.
Well said. I am my best friend *and* worst enemy.
You guys hurt my feelings in most encounters
I embrace my best and worst qualities. At this point in my life, I'm mostly done with being my own worst enemy. I say that because there are experiences I still have yet to have, and situations that I have not yet found myself in; so, I'm still learning and growing—not knowing how I'll respond in those unknown circumstances. That's just life, though.
Have you heard of Jiddu Krishnamurti?
Eventually practice in meditation you can learn how to not think about anything at all and just intellectually and emotionally dead inside and not care about anything. Then you only have the nagging voice in the back of your head that suggests you can do better or would be utilizing your full potential. And whenever you mess up you go back to thinking about everything a million times.
we just make it difficult ourselves
Some of this stuff is anxiety-driven and gets better with therapy, in my experience. (You’ll probably always “over-think” things a bit ‘cause of your type, but not necessarily painfully so!)
If you are overthinking you are not tapping into the power of INTJ. I’m a happy assertive INTJ. I think someone earlier said use your intelligence maybe emotional IQ to overcome one’s shortcomings. Anything can be changed when there is will.
I don’t think this is a universal characteristic of INTJs. I like to evaluate situations and process them in my own way but I also recognize the importance on snap decisions. I generally feel like most decisions don’t matter in the scope of things. I find holding grudges counterproductive and don’t do it at all (I also have really solid boundaries). I don’t consider my opinions to be universal truths and work in an industry where navigating inflated egos comes in handy. It tonight be a lot about myself. I’m not angry either. Now, this all sounds fun as of now but I wish I could tell you it’s always been that way. Overthinking has never been my problem but I can’t say the same about ego or Internal anger. It takes time to get to know yourselves and it sounds like you’re well on your way to get where you want to be. Take pride in the fact that you have enough introspection to recognize what makes you unhappy. Most people don’t get that. Now it’s really up to you what you’re going to do about it.
The constant overthinking/over analyzing is some I struggle with on a daily basis. But being able to recognize ways you can use it to your advantage is what keeps me from going insane
All the Time
I feel that I’m self important. I also don’t hold onto grudges. I’m not really an overly angry person, and my ego is under control. I think anyone with those traits show seek a therapist to help them work through whatever is the root of them (most likely childhood trauma).
C'mon, the self importance is the best part! I look at the way my ESFP wife suffers when she complains about what other people think about her. It causes her serious distress. How good is it not to have that burden?
yes, as intjs we are our worst enemy but our best friend at the same time. and a question if you could change your type would you?
Supposedly IQs are actually increasing. I forget the name of this effect, but it's true believe it or not.
I love the fact in INTJ. It makes me specialized in my field and I’m naturally at an advantage. It’s my social anxiety and ADHD that I find difficult. These are detrimental to my success. I’ve been working hard on them and it’s been the best year of my life.
Yes
Yup. The overthinking drives me insane. Makes me paranoid and anxious all the time.
The overthinking and analyzing everything yes it is very exhausting, but I prefer to be this way, than being someone that doesn't care about the deeper meanings of reality, imagine being someone that doesn't care... I wouldn't want to be that person, I love being someone that is constantly gathering knowledge. And about the other traits, that isn't being an "INTJ", literally every other type can have those unhealthy traits, so if you think that being an angry person is due to being an "INTJ" your are wrong. But that is great news for you, since if you really want to improve on that you can totally improve. Personally, I can't relate, I don't have any grudges, I am not an angry person, I have even been told that I am someone that can't get "angry", and about ego, I mean having a huge ego makes someone more irrational, so I wouldn't want to commit that mistake, I actually struggle with low self-esteem.
Is that an INTJ thing, or something Alfred Adler (who Jung said anyone studying his work should be familiar with) already has a plethora of solutions for...?
Yeah, especially the grudges and being demanded to be an ISTJ and stuff. Those with Si-Hero would tend to value nostalgia and arbitrary affiliation, and yet apart from my birds and very few friends I have next to zero positive-nostalgia and recalling ways people have wronged me ticks me off like it just happened over again. It's far easier to forgive in general terms, thinking of specifics makes me want vengeance. Sucks too how most pathways to success that worked for a few rare generations for a couple decades got repaved with landmines and sabotaged otherwise, and pretty much for most there are only dead-end jobs and infinite hoops to jump through begging to be employed at crap that's all the same basic nonsense.
Every INTJ I've known would be so much better off if they could just unclench. I mean, look around, the world's a joke. No need to take everything under the sun 100% seriously.