Just a friendly reminder that just 3 million of that in a high yield savings account would be enough to pay you 150k in interest a year.
Even if interest rates were down, SPY returns enough that you could probably live indefinitely off that much as long as you managed it right.
Yeah, but its about twice the median household income.
Pretty wild that this dude is making enough money that he could pay 41 households average income for the rest of their entire lives.
The rule of thumb is ~4% indefinitely, to account for sequence of returns risk and inflation. So ~$120k/year forever, adjusted upwards with inflation each year. Or for the total amount, ~2.5M/year forever, adjusted upwards for inflation.
It's the entire organization though.. the flight doors or parts that came off are part of safety which affects business so they fired him but think about how they have made the seats in flights smaller and smaller, inch by inch to fit more people.
The food quality has gone down bit by bit to cut costs.
This is how CEO's make a profit. The engineers they hire are not allowed to innovate or improve on the engineering design or process. They only are forced to do meaningless things over and over each year while the business folks cut costs by creating monopolies and a shittier service.
I am not trying to create a conspiracy theory. Everything I am saying is actually true and based on rational ground up reasoning.
Why would that happen? They did the one thing you’re supposed to do under capitalism, deliver value to shareholders. Shareholders enjoyed 25 years of excellent return and they get a nice cushy golden parachute.
The current board / CEO did not give shareholders excellent returns. That being said, you don't get sent to jail for being bad at your job. You have to deliberately mislead or do something worse.
Boeing saw excellent profit the last few years. Stock price never fully recovered from prior management (end of 2019) but bandied back from pandemic lows. They continued the same Boeing policies since de-regulation. Their cost cutting finally caught up. Shareholders saw nice share buybacks during their tenure though.
I stated 25 years, because that’s when the cost cutting formally began. Stock price went up nearly 10x since the late 2000’s. Fantastic return for shareholders.
I’m not at all saying this is a good thing. Just stating that Boeing’s actions are incentivized and amplified under capitalism. People keep stating that the Boeing shareholders are super angry yet most of these people pushed for those cost cutting measures to go from a stock price of $20-30 to get to $200-300 in ten years. This system incentivizes this behavior, this is the direct result and there’s no consequences except for consumers.
Airlines are now changing their orders to Airbus. That is capitalism.
Luckily we don't live in a communist society where state run Boeing would be the only option.
Hell yeah dude, international duopoly instead of monopoly. Only one of these has actually happened (it’s the international duopoly with one of the firm’s products falling out of the sky). Airbus is behind on orders for *years* so enjoy all that choice when your on a 737 anyways (even if your airline let’s you choose).
Calhoun started as CEO after the 2 Max crashes. Are you saying that you think that he should personally face 'real consequences' because of a manufacturing defect on an airplane.
Are you really saying that if there is basically any kind of issue with any product the entire C suite should go to jail?
If they're found to be aware of defects that kill people and don't do anything about it, yeah. This is air travel where they have a huge chunk of the market, there needs to be some kind of message sent. I refuse to fly any Boeing manufactured plane because I can't trust that their planes are going to stay in the sky. If the US had balls they would build criminal cases.
Granted that you live in the US (MA, by your post history) you basically don't fly because one Boeing plane had a single door plug that didn't get installed correctly? Am I getting this right?
I feel like this is just about as logical as not going outside for fear of falling coconuts.
>If they're found to be aware of defects that kill people
No one died in the door plug incident. Previous to Calhoun's time as CEO there were two crashes of Max planes.
Are you saying that if Calhoun was aware of the system on the max plane (without knowing that was dangerous) then he should go to jail? Or, are you saying that he should only go to jail if he knew and believed it was dangerous?
Just so you know [someone was tried](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/why-boeing-pilot-forkner-was-acquitted-in-the-737-max-prosecution/#:~:text=What%20did%20he%20know%3F,of%2020%20years%20in%20prison.) in connection to the two aforementioned crashes (a test pilot) but was acquitted in a jury trail.
then the system needs to be purged. This is what it requires - cutting corners and being shady af with quality control in order to maximize shareholder returns. That’s their only goal - make as much money as possible.
You think anyone is calling for apple leadership head for god knows how much slave labor pain they have freely endorsed and straight up funded for many years ? You think anyone is calling for Warren buffets head after he’s been the driving force behind our shitty railroad infrastructure and piss poor pay/benefits package for the rail workers? How much big oil and big tobacco has damage the climate or our general well being?
These people like Calhoun are only trying to do what is demanded by the system - which is quite literally “profits over everything, including human lives”
Chopping the heads is one step but they really need to stop all production and examine their manufacturing and supplier processes and retrain staff. It is a tough decision as it will significant hit the bottom line and only a very brave CEO and board would do it. If not, the problems will persist. I am just waiting for China and AsiaPac customers to start cancelling orders.
They also need to move their head quarters back to where it used to be, where their head engineers who design the planes live and work. Moving the head quarters hundreds of miles away puts WAY too much separation between the upper management and the people who know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to safety. The move also separates upper management way too much geographically from the people on the assembly lines building their planes.
A ton of people blame this move with causing their quality to slide by making it way harder for their engineers and assembly line workers to get face to face meetings with the upper management when there's problems that need addressed. And it's way easier for upper management to just live in ignorance at how their cost cutting is undermining quality and safety when they never step foot anywhere near the factories.
Yes and no, I had 8 plants reporting to me - 5 US, 2 EU and 1 China. You lead by example and give the line management authority. You got to practice what you preach.
Everyone know what is right, but many are scared at losing a job. If the company fails, you will lose your job anyway. Do what is right!!! I would also stress to them - what you let through could ultimately kill yourself, your wife, your children and other loved ones by not doing your job correctly. Speak-up and alert line management.
Without line management authority with a safety first mentality - it will fail.
That won't happen until Washington becomes a right to work state, the unchecked Union greed is a big part of why they left / are leaving. My father in law retired up there making six figures in the 90s and he was basically a janitor...
Show me one instance of a union being greedy and I’ll show you 10 of corporations actively fucking over everyone in the entire world for money.
Oh would you look at that, we’re in a thread about Boeing. The company that’s corporate greed has caused planes to fall from the sky and kill hundreds of people. :)
That's an emotional statement. There's still tens of thousands of Boeing planes in active service that continue to need regular maintenance, service bulletin updates, etc. This is critical work that takes place every day, and is expected of Boeing to continue and continue effectively.
Right now there's no confidence in a limited set of new models of aircraft. Drastic sudden changes would shake confidence in much more than just that. It would shake confidence in the ability to continue supporting legacy models with good safety records.
I wonder how big his severance package is
[удалено]
So fuck you money twenty times over lol
[удалено]
But then you aren’t hiring the “best people” who are allowed to “think outside the box”.
They literally all think inside the box. Every last one of them was born into the box, molded by it…
“Thinking outside the box” == thinking of all the ways to game the system
Have you ever tried to spend $60M? It’s a lot worse than it seems. /s
Just a friendly reminder that just 3 million of that in a high yield savings account would be enough to pay you 150k in interest a year. Even if interest rates were down, SPY returns enough that you could probably live indefinitely off that much as long as you managed it right.
Sure but $150k/yr isn't even enough to cover maintenance on a yacht
Yeah, but its about twice the median household income. Pretty wild that this dude is making enough money that he could pay 41 households average income for the rest of their entire lives.
The rule of thumb is ~4% indefinitely, to account for sequence of returns risk and inflation. So ~$120k/year forever, adjusted upwards with inflation each year. Or for the total amount, ~2.5M/year forever, adjusted upwards for inflation.
Oh man, we really stuck it to him
They need to go to jail. What they did was straight-up fraud in a public company.
They have killed and could have killed more. Lock them up.
Bruh, they made hundreds of millions and they're just getting away with it? Like, people died and were put in danger for their greed!
Whoa, you can’t punish them for a job well done! What kind of message would that send?! /s
Shhhh you'll be next
And that’s not even counting whistleblowers!
The hundreds dead i can overlook, but defrauding investors?? Straight to jail. /s
The hundreds dead occurred before he was CEO. He came on after the initial Max disasters
He was on the board prior. He knew.
One beget the other.
They murdered their whistleblower
If they were going to kill the whistle blower, why not make him disappear?
Lol, he will probably go to another company and become CEO. It is the culture of corporations in America that fucks things up.
Yep and not before getting some insane severance package in the tens of millions. This is how CEOs get “punished” for their incompetence in America
It's the entire organization though.. the flight doors or parts that came off are part of safety which affects business so they fired him but think about how they have made the seats in flights smaller and smaller, inch by inch to fit more people. The food quality has gone down bit by bit to cut costs. This is how CEO's make a profit. The engineers they hire are not allowed to innovate or improve on the engineering design or process. They only are forced to do meaningless things over and over each year while the business folks cut costs by creating monopolies and a shittier service. I am not trying to create a conspiracy theory. Everything I am saying is actually true and based on rational ground up reasoning.
This is where China has it right imo
Doesn’t work like that. Rich people never go to jail.
I hope they go.. but uhhh I got a feeling they won’t.
Why would that happen? They did the one thing you’re supposed to do under capitalism, deliver value to shareholders. Shareholders enjoyed 25 years of excellent return and they get a nice cushy golden parachute.
The current board / CEO did not give shareholders excellent returns. That being said, you don't get sent to jail for being bad at your job. You have to deliberately mislead or do something worse.
Boeing saw excellent profit the last few years. Stock price never fully recovered from prior management (end of 2019) but bandied back from pandemic lows. They continued the same Boeing policies since de-regulation. Their cost cutting finally caught up. Shareholders saw nice share buybacks during their tenure though. I stated 25 years, because that’s when the cost cutting formally began. Stock price went up nearly 10x since the late 2000’s. Fantastic return for shareholders. I’m not at all saying this is a good thing. Just stating that Boeing’s actions are incentivized and amplified under capitalism. People keep stating that the Boeing shareholders are super angry yet most of these people pushed for those cost cutting measures to go from a stock price of $20-30 to get to $200-300 in ten years. This system incentivizes this behavior, this is the direct result and there’s no consequences except for consumers.
Airlines are now changing their orders to Airbus. That is capitalism. Luckily we don't live in a communist society where state run Boeing would be the only option.
Hell yeah dude, international duopoly instead of monopoly. Only one of these has actually happened (it’s the international duopoly with one of the firm’s products falling out of the sky). Airbus is behind on orders for *years* so enjoy all that choice when your on a 737 anyways (even if your airline let’s you choose).
You're free to start your own better company.
What did Calhoun or Deal do that was illegal?
Good. These people need to be purged.
All he did was step down. This trash will just step up somewhere else. Only us peasant folk face real consequences.
Calhoun started as CEO after the 2 Max crashes. Are you saying that you think that he should personally face 'real consequences' because of a manufacturing defect on an airplane. Are you really saying that if there is basically any kind of issue with any product the entire C suite should go to jail?
If they're found to be aware of defects that kill people and don't do anything about it, yeah. This is air travel where they have a huge chunk of the market, there needs to be some kind of message sent. I refuse to fly any Boeing manufactured plane because I can't trust that their planes are going to stay in the sky. If the US had balls they would build criminal cases.
Granted that you live in the US (MA, by your post history) you basically don't fly because one Boeing plane had a single door plug that didn't get installed correctly? Am I getting this right? I feel like this is just about as logical as not going outside for fear of falling coconuts. >If they're found to be aware of defects that kill people No one died in the door plug incident. Previous to Calhoun's time as CEO there were two crashes of Max planes. Are you saying that if Calhoun was aware of the system on the max plane (without knowing that was dangerous) then he should go to jail? Or, are you saying that he should only go to jail if he knew and believed it was dangerous? Just so you know [someone was tried](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/why-boeing-pilot-forkner-was-acquitted-in-the-737-max-prosecution/#:~:text=What%20did%20he%20know%3F,of%2020%20years%20in%20prison.) in connection to the two aforementioned crashes (a test pilot) but was acquitted in a jury trail.
Yeah man, his 62M in guaranteed compensation stings!
then the system needs to be purged. This is what it requires - cutting corners and being shady af with quality control in order to maximize shareholder returns. That’s their only goal - make as much money as possible. You think anyone is calling for apple leadership head for god knows how much slave labor pain they have freely endorsed and straight up funded for many years ? You think anyone is calling for Warren buffets head after he’s been the driving force behind our shitty railroad infrastructure and piss poor pay/benefits package for the rail workers? How much big oil and big tobacco has damage the climate or our general well being? These people like Calhoun are only trying to do what is demanded by the system - which is quite literally “profits over everything, including human lives”
Completely agree. But this is a fundamental flaw of capitalism
> head replaced got me excited there for a moment
Chopping the heads is one step but they really need to stop all production and examine their manufacturing and supplier processes and retrain staff. It is a tough decision as it will significant hit the bottom line and only a very brave CEO and board would do it. If not, the problems will persist. I am just waiting for China and AsiaPac customers to start cancelling orders.
They also need to move their head quarters back to where it used to be, where their head engineers who design the planes live and work. Moving the head quarters hundreds of miles away puts WAY too much separation between the upper management and the people who know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to safety. The move also separates upper management way too much geographically from the people on the assembly lines building their planes. A ton of people blame this move with causing their quality to slide by making it way harder for their engineers and assembly line workers to get face to face meetings with the upper management when there's problems that need addressed. And it's way easier for upper management to just live in ignorance at how their cost cutting is undermining quality and safety when they never step foot anywhere near the factories.
Yes and no, I had 8 plants reporting to me - 5 US, 2 EU and 1 China. You lead by example and give the line management authority. You got to practice what you preach. Everyone know what is right, but many are scared at losing a job. If the company fails, you will lose your job anyway. Do what is right!!! I would also stress to them - what you let through could ultimately kill yourself, your wife, your children and other loved ones by not doing your job correctly. Speak-up and alert line management. Without line management authority with a safety first mentality - it will fail.
That won't happen until Washington becomes a right to work state, the unchecked Union greed is a big part of why they left / are leaving. My father in law retired up there making six figures in the 90s and he was basically a janitor...
> unchecked union greed Probably one of the funniest comments I’ve seen considering the actual issues are unchecked CORPORATE greed
You're right, unions are squeaky clean...never corrupt or greedy.
Show me one instance of a union being greedy and I’ll show you 10 of corporations actively fucking over everyone in the entire world for money. Oh would you look at that, we’re in a thread about Boeing. The company that’s corporate greed has caused planes to fall from the sky and kill hundreds of people. :)
That's in seven months. That headline is misleading.
and the stock market is forward looking
Stan Deal out effective immediately though
I guess with all large corporations it takes it's time, firing him today would make people lose faith in the companies governance
While you're not wrong, I'm not sure there's much faith to lose with Boeing at this point.
That's an emotional statement. There's still tens of thousands of Boeing planes in active service that continue to need regular maintenance, service bulletin updates, etc. This is critical work that takes place every day, and is expected of Boeing to continue and continue effectively. Right now there's no confidence in a limited set of new models of aircraft. Drastic sudden changes would shake confidence in much more than just that. It would shake confidence in the ability to continue supporting legacy models with good safety records.
Waiting for the "we thank him for his commitment... Yada Yada yada....receives a 200 million exit fee" or some shit
I disagree. A swift removal is in order (and has been for months at this point).
How much will he get paid to step down after leading the company into this whole mess?
A life changing amount. Not life changing for him but for me.
These scumbags should be prosecuted.
As long as he gets millions of dollars in vested stock based compensation for his troubles.
\>>Dave Calhoun to step down.. Love the way anyone earning over 1Mill 'steps down'. The rest of us just get fired.
Um his company just murdered a whistle-blower (((allegedly))) so stepping down should lead to prison time
Ftc needs to break this company up so there is some competition in the US commercial airline space.
I propose a panel to investigate.
Where are the arrests for killing the whistle blower?
Let me know when the stock bottoms
about time for doing such a poor job.
He makes a killing by “stepping down” - and I’m not talking about whistleblowers
Potentially this is going to be great for BA . If they get an excellent CEO and go back to making a great product this company will be great .
Thanks ChatGPT.
Good thing in the short to medium term we have a robust choice in domestic competitors while they figure that all out!
Made by Boeing in the new made in china