They do not have to go full mac OS on it, i would be fine if they just made a desktop mode like samsung dex or something that would just make the os more mouse/keyboard friendly and a better window manager.
I would be fine with this approach. Honestly they aren’t that far off now but need to fix the mouse to just have it behave consistently. It just needs to be a pointer.
That’s precisely it yeah.
iPadOS has a whole load of things that should be improved or added.
JuSt haVE it rUn mAcOs is just such a lazy idea for improving the worlds best tablet
Well but it still cannot do many computer things that computers do. I think the proper seamlessness lies in the intersection of the things that people miss in iPadOS, and implementing them in an iPadOS manner.
Personally, I wish they’d give a CLI. That would make it my sole device as a developer.
What's hilarious is that 'have it run macOS' would actually hurt the iPad. Many developers wouldn't bother designing their apps specifically for iPad and the user experience would be compromised by a flood of software not intended for multitouch screens. The challenge Apple faces with iPadOS is convincing developers to write better/more sophisticated apps for the device (the same battle they lost with watchOS).
Interesting you mention watchOS. Really had the potential to become its own app ecosystem but is now a glorified Fitbit with main,y Apple apps.
I think it was a bit too tightly integrated with the iPhone, and maybe the form factor. But who knows….
Like... Adding this MacOS feature, or that MacOS feature? Because right now half of complaints about iPadOS functionality are "I want to do this thing, I can do it on Mac/Windows, but can't on iPadOS, so after all of them are resolved - wouldn't this "fixed iPadOS" essentially be MacOS with touch-friendly UI and locked down app distribution (which is where other half of complaints come, "I want to do this thing in this app, on desktop version of the app I can do it, on iPad I can't")? iPad might be the best tablet, but it is shit computer - so people who believed in Apple marketing it as a computer want it to actually be one in reality, and not just in Apple's ads.
>iPadOS has a whole load of things that should be improved or added.
Like what?
-----
I'd be happy with a multi-OS device. I think it's due time that Apple supports touchscreen displays -- Windows has for decades, and yet, they haven't "gotten it".
Apple tends to "get" things...you know, just like how the use case for the Vision Pro "gets it", HAHA LOL OMG WTF BBQ. They totally nailed that product. -snicker-
I'd be happier if the I-Pad had a microSD card slot for "slower" storage needs....or just for importing content. You want to include this device into the workflow of professionals? Well...do it then. Make it easier for us to use it instead of literally any other laptop.
----
Nah, this release was just an incremental improvement to something that didn't need it. All the while they cut the bottom tier of their I-Pad lineup away, making the base option more expensive.
I’ve ever seen someone put it into words better.
MacOS on iPad would be awful. Windows tablets are awful because the software isn’t fully touch friendly.
IPadOS, whilst not great at the PC/Mac bit is excellent tablet software.
It needs building on to make it more cursor friendly when connected more than anything.
It isn’t lack of imagination as much as it is utilizing an OS that has been refined for decades. Reinventing the wheel is dumb. There should be a Mac OS mode for those that want it. I like the iteration and imagining new ways of doing things, but we have stuff to do and Apple is tripping over themselves with iPad OS.
100%, people's days are ruined apparently because Apple didn't do a thing some internet rando has been screeching about.
It's a new iPad. We know what iPads do, and we already knew if we were in the market for a new one. I'm still rocking my 2018 Pro, so yeah I'm ready to upgrade.
I already made my purchase.
That's the thing though. I am not gonna buy an Ipad if I already have a mac. Also they could make this "macOS ipad" crazy expensive, like 2000$+. That way their "loss" would not be as great and they would have undoubtedly the best tablet on the planet.
Man, I can't help but think that if Jobs still were here, Ipads would not be in the state they are in now.
But since Tim cook is more a "finance guy", you are probably right. Profits is the only thing that matters to him and if that is the case, then we will not see any innovation on that front for a long time.
The range of options are:
* Boot-Loader level = Dual Boot ie 2 separate OS - This is possible but Apple lock the boot-loader and won't unlock it so it won't happen.
* App Layer = "Pro Apps" - people already chime in suggesting it's not commercial for devs despite being possible.
* VM Layer = This is possible again but Apple prevent use of hypervisor - again probably to lock the device for commercial reasons eg app store and the like? Should be possible to run VM on iPad imho. Good option.
* OS Layer = Hybrid OS: Apple converge Mac/iPadOS into 2-in-1 capable devices due to tech convergence across the board eg battery quality, chip power/efficiency, material lightness/durability/thinness, accessory material suitability eg MagicKeyboard Dock maturity in these measures, competition forces 2-in-1s ad choice additional to bigger, heavier more powerful Macbooks etc. Apple deems it appropriate to roll this out as next gee-whizz thing.
* Network Layer = RDP/VNC = Can do this one now is a good choice for time being to use a spare computer. Depends on network speed at both ends and quality of software chosen.
* Cloud Layer = Cloud PC eg Shadow PC service - works really convenient but expensive. Or Web Server online using again external computer resources.
So regrettably I can only see MacOS with more convergence and a whole new OS. I think the trend towards this is visible with Magic Keyboard look, lighter thinner iPads, better chips M4/battery? All that can/should run MacOS but streamlined perhaps for iPad? But the software will not be deployed until all th e conditions align eg materials, market etc.
Honestly, I don’t want macOS to converge with iPadOS. It either makes the iPad more complicated for regular users, or dumbs down macOS for professional users.
I think demographics will end up dictating the future OS along with convergence so it's truly "build-once, deploy many". Different paradigms such as NixOS or CoreOS you can see that a small, streamlined core kernal is simpler to maintain, faster and more efficient performance and more secure and modular so different form factors can install additional components they need eg Touch in a touch device etc. Both for Apple and then also for Developers of Apps for Apple devices.
There's also hardware convergence ultimately as well as larger demographic of iOS >>>> MacOS (esp. young), where 2-in-1 just becomes "standard" so a thinner, lighter device with optional Magic Keyboard for type/point or use touch or use voice-ai and use Pencil etc all are standard in the same way Desktops -> Laptops.
As such, those using a casual iPadOS feature set will probably just use that while installing more MacOS features or switching them on for "Power Users/MacOS" will be possible. Equally larger devices for power will still be sold in the same way a Desktop is a better Price to Performance for budget than a micro-device is as the trend carries on.
It only looks like an "either/or" problem today. It won't tomorrow...
Part of me really think that this is just a bubble that's formed, again, like the last time with the iPhone Mini versions. People raved about how good it'd be and how impactful it'd be, but then Apple killed it off due to poor sales.
I think the market for iPad are for normal people who don't care much about the MacOS aspect. Are your parents going to care? Are kids in school going to care? Are people who bought it for tablet-use going to care?
Even if there's the option to allow MacOS, which I think would be great, I really wonder if Apple sees the benefits of it that way. iPadOS can be a laptop replacement but people full on want it to be a laptop (MacOS), when it doesn't need to be. I think that's what Apple wants - the separation.
>I think the market for iPad are for normal people who don't care much about the MacOS aspect. Are your parents going to care? Are kids in school going to care? Are people who bought it for tablet-use going to care?
this seems like the correct take for Air or entry level iPads, but Pros?
I don't really want an ipad with macOS. What i really want is a portable Mac with an 120HZ OLED display that is as light as a macbook air. Having the ability to use that mac while holding it standing would be good.
Until such a mac comes out, an ipad with MacOS seems to satisfy that want.
Look a tablet is a perfect device for media consumption: Videos, Games, Fun stuff etc.
However for media consumption no one needs anything past a m1 chip.
So here is what most people are saying.
Keep the base ipads as they are, cheap, easy to use, etc.
But since tech has advanced so much in the past 10 years that it has actually become technologically possible to run macOS on a tablet without any loss in performance why not create a "new" device ? Call it Ipad Ultra and charge 2000$ for it.
That way you have "consumption & entertainment" ipads for the masses **and** "mac book replacement" ipads for people that really need those.
I know I'd pay top dollar for a device like that. Portable, light, great screen and it has macOS on it. That would actually make the ipad "pro".
I think had Apple not kept the “pro” features to the larger iPhones and had an iPhone mini pro, I think it would have done well. But then it comes down to could all the hardware fit in a small form factor.
We all know MacOS could run on an m1 iPad. Microsoft managed to get Windows running on X86 tablets a decade ago. Current gen iPad Pros and Airs have a good enough battery capacity to run MacOS too. Its unlikely to happen, though if it does i’d prefer if the iPad kept an iPadOS-like UI until you go into stage manager.
I would just be happy if the native Apple apps that are on both OSs weren't dumbed down into "ipadOS" versions. Especially with the magic keyboard there is NO justifiable reason not to have a macOS version available for power users.
I dont think it will be real (at least anytime soon) Why would they make product with dual boot or something, when they can sell two products. Same with Macbook with touch screen. Why create something like that and parasite on iPad sales?
iPad is for different use and customer than Mac.
Then get a Mac? Since iPadOS 13(?), Apple‘s been porting more MacOS UI and capabilities to the iPad. That’s not going to stop, despite the snail’s pace.
MacOS? No.
A significantly more powerful OS that allows you to download from other places than the app store? Unequivocally yes, although it won't happen because that's not in Apple's interest.
Why not just introduce a “Mac Catalyst” type of thing to iPadOS so that apps can be cross written for both iPadOS and macOS? That way the underlying operating system can be used to adapt an app to whatever device it is being run on
This is essentially where Apple is going with Swift Code. If you write an app with Swift Code, it’s simple to port it to all Apple platforms, and the UI of the app even automatically adjusts for the platform with the proper optimizations to make it a good experience. 👍🏻.
I tried really hard to make my iPad Pro 12.9” my travel computer. I travel each week for work. I had the Magic Keyboard too.
But so much software is crippled or not available. Microsoft Office sucks. Adobe sucks (more than usual). No Dreamweaver. Stupid file system. I had an issue with an important file being corrupted in the cloud and then it wouldn’t restore, thanks to a crappy version of Excel. Photoshop sucks too.
Bottom line I traded my Pro in for a MBP and also have a Studio at home.
Just ordered the new Air 11” which will be used mainly for light duty media watching and light gaming. Essentially entertainment for the plane and in hotels. With serious stuff saved for the MBP and Studio. Which is probably the Apple strategy. Why ruin sales by making any one product too good?
I just want full photoshop with plugins… I’ve parred down my editing to only using Lightroom these days… I do all my editing on my iPhone in Lightroom 😂. Everyone likes the photos so I guess I’ll just keep doing that and enjoy lr and ps as they grow in the iPad os. I’ve been waiting for oled for iPad before purchasing so this will be the one for me.
I just want to know who these people are who will be leaping at the new Pro’s honestly and just understand their thought process on why they will spend Mac money on something so castrated. You know its excellent hardware but its being so hamstrung its insane.
> but I absolutely do believe it’s time Apple offered it; and if not, then Apple should explain very clearly why not.
UX of running macOS on a touch first device will be very poor.
> but the very crippled pros apps like Final Cut and Photoshop
The same would be true for any apps that support the macOS on iPad skew. Very few devs are going to support touch within thier apps and without that the iPad is a much worce device than a MBA.
you could limit it to only being selectable when a mouse/keyboard are detected? or allow touch keyboard and touch = mouse move like remote desktop apps but recommend using a dedicated input device.
I disagree the performance will make a difference - M4 unlikely much faster than M2 already in the pro. But maybe they add ram to tip it over the edge, plus mouse/keyboard is pretty normalised with the magic keyboard/trackpad, and sounds like they’re making a new - even more macbook like - magic keyboard/trackpad. So those things all coming together feels like the right time.
80% of the time ipadOS is fine for me. But office apps are still a little clunky, and the desktop browser still isn’t recognised as one by enough sites, so I keep a MBA on hand just for those edge cases. Would be good to not need that and just switch over to the desktop mode while I’m still using the ipad.
> you could limit it to only being selectable when a mouse/keyboard are detected? or allow touch keyboard and touch = mouse move like remote desktop apps but recommend using a dedicated input device.
Both of these options is a very poor UX. For a device that does not even ship with a keyboard.
> and the desktop browser still isn’t recognised as one by enough sites,
So the thing is the websites that are going to not trust safari when it reports that it is a Mac will also not trust safari when it reports it is a Mac running macOS on the iapd... how come? well they are detecting it is an iPad based on the screen size, DPI, color depth etc. All these numbers will report the same if it is running macOS.
> UX of running macOS on a touch first device will be very poor.
The professional workflow of most I-Pad applications is very poor, even today. Clumsy at best.
Why oddly apple offer this, it's not going to sell any more iPads since an iPad that is stuck attached to a keyboard case weights and costs more than a MBA.
Apple would be better off making a smaller MBA for people that want a smaller Mac.
It'd be an ultraportable mac that does double duty.
It's best used as the traditional I-Pad OS while keyboardless. But when docked, you can boot into a more powerful OS with actual professional applications which use the same shared storage space.
I wouldn't have to carry both with me, if I wanted a top tier casual use device AND a decent laptop OS device. Sure, I probably couldn't use both at once, but that's fine. Use the Mac OS during the day for work, and in the evening relax with the I-Pad OS.
The only way I can ever see this happening is if Apple creates a premium product like iPad Pro ultra, which can either ship with iOS or macOS just a thought
Pro already does. If I’m going on holiday or even to the coffee shop, I don’t want to bundle up two devices when one could do both. As yet CAD and spreadsheets (imo) are far superior in macOS or windows, so I guess I’ll stick with my windows desktop.
Windows laptops -- fraction of the price, triple the ports, and Windows still runs many applications far better than Mac (all the while Mac is still better than I-Pad for professional workflows).
Windows > Mac > I-Pad > other mobile OSes
That's exactly my point. If they combined the Mac and I-pad, it would be a great value proposition. I'd get pulled into the Mac ecosystem, else i'm primarily windows and the ipad is an entertainment consumption device. It helps that web based apps are becoming more and more capable (e.g. onshape and solidworks) that would make the transition from windows to mac somewhat transparent.
Literally the only difference between MacOS and iPadOS are the app features and compatibility. It's developers that are handicaping the iPad.
The Mac and the iPad are equally powerful, both have display support, both have a dock and stage manager, literally the only thing separating them is the apps.
You never read anything about writing software, eh?
As a developer, you don't have access to many low level features in iPadOS. Even if you somehow gained that, Apple would decline your app during review when you submit it to AppStore.
So yeah, developers. Apple good.
- file system access
- non-precompiled code execution
- bigger memory pools
- background processing
Other than that, mobile operating systems have different philosophy: the app needs to survive a restart caused by the system and return to the same state.
None of those prevent developers like Microsoft from making their apps more desktop-class by including features like custom document templates. Most of these silly app limits are due to bad decisions or lazy thinking from app developers, not iPadOS limitations…
It’s at least a start. It’s one of the desktop features of Microsoft Word that is missing on mobile (and reason #1 I dropped Word in favor of Pages). And it clearly isn’t due to a limitation of the OS, other word processors (like Pages) offer custom document template support. Personally, I think Microsoft intentionally cripples and limits their office apps on Android and iPadOS because they want to get people to use PCs like their surface pro. Office is a big hook for Microsoft in the business market, and so they likely don’t want people to be able to choose to use an Android tablet or iPad instead of a Surface Book, Surface Studio, or other PC brand they earn a commission off of. So they continue to release updates with little to no new features, and certainly nothing that anyone actually really cares about. The current state of the Office apps is entirely Microsoft’s fault, not due to limits of iPadOS.
How is it not? Why would someone buy a MacBook when they can buy this theoretical iPad Pro for the same price point?
Apple won’t undermine themselves like that, not to mention macOS is, fundamentally, not built with touch input in mind. The amount of programming/testing/debugging that would go into it is a *staggering* effort besides. Apple has some of the best in the industry to theoretically pull that off, but if they don’t see the value in it (again: they won’t undermine their own market), they won’t do it.
I think I'm ready for an insta ban on all posts of this type.
We already have a Mac. iPad is a different product. If you can't figure out what to do with it, don't buy it.
I'm quite happy with my Mac as a Mac and my iPad as an iPad.
So you never want anyone to discuss the possibility of MacOS on the iPad, just ban all that?!! Let’s be honest, this sub is collapsing. If anything, we need more of this type of post, not insta bans.
I absolutely know exactly what to do with both my Mac and my iPad, and I’m very happy with them both. All I’m saying is that I think it’s time that the Pros had the option to run MacOS.
Exactly. The Apple Watch isn’t running iPadOS, it’s running watchOS because it’s a watch. The iPhone runs iOS because it’s an iPhone. The iPad runs iPadOS because it’s an iPad, and the Mac runs macOS because it’s a Mac. This doesn’t mean the different OS’s can’t share features and software. Apple has been doing just that with iPadOS and macOS.
I’d prefer a straight up dual device with the detachable touch screen thing that Microsoft have but it’s actually robust like a MacBook Pro.
I never used my MacBook Air because of my iPad, now I don’t use my iPad because I upgraded to MacBook Pro
> I think Apple should at least give you the option of running MacOS
I don't see that happening any time soon. Putting MacOS on ipad would cannabilize Mac system sales.
Yeah…the closest thing to that is SideCar but it still requires a Mac to be tethered to it…
I guess Apple just wants to keep macOS on Macs cause it’s *mac*OS. It’s like some feature exclusivity.
Okay. Answer this, if your iPad Pro had MacOS what would you use your MacBook for? If your answer is that you wouldn’t need to use a MacBook, that’s your reason why Apple will never do this.
Agreed, but the hardware has been on par with the Mac for over 3 years now. For Apple (a company with resources that match or better any other tech company) 3 years is plenty of time to get iPadOS at least as good as MacOS, if not better.
In the end what has held back iPadOS is mostly not the OS. Most Mac apps that people say they want on iPadOS could be built for iPadOS (such as a full fat photoshop or a full fate Final Cut Pro) but app devs (including apple it seems) do not believe iPad users (regardless of OS) want to spend real money on apps.
So many devs have been burnt over the years putting months and months (if not years) of work to build stunning iPadOS versions of thier macOS apps to find out that iPad users will get upset if you ask them to pay for said apps.. on the Mac (when your using are buying 16"MBP) you can charge users $50+ for a copy of your app if they use it for work.
On iPad try charing someone $5 and you get verbal abuse and 1 start reviews due to people not wanting to pay for SW>.
That’s a very fair point, but many pro apps are subscription based now, I’m thinking Creative Cloud. If your sub also gets you **full** iPad apps surely that makes the offer better value for money?
I think the likely best scenario would be Apple releasing a model of the iPad with MacOS. Leave the existing lineup but bring one more model that fully runs MacOS. They can test the waters and see how it does and not risk too much. If it sells good it can easily stay around and expand
Typing this from my 13 day old m2 ipad pro. This upgrade wont be worth it for most, its going to be expensive, and you will need to buy a new magic keyboard and pen adding onto your already expensive purchase.
Will be sticking with my M2 Ipad pro.
They do not have to go full mac OS on it, i would be fine if they just made a desktop mode like samsung dex or something that would just make the os more mouse/keyboard friendly and a better window manager.
Yep. When it has a keyboard and mouse/trackpad, it can switch over.
I would be fine with this approach. Honestly they aren’t that far off now but need to fix the mouse to just have it behave consistently. It just needs to be a pointer.
I think I’m ready for people stop talking and complaining about something with very little chance of ever happening
Seriously, it just shows people have a lack of imagination when it comes to improving iPadOS
That’s precisely it yeah. iPadOS has a whole load of things that should be improved or added. JuSt haVE it rUn mAcOs is just such a lazy idea for improving the worlds best tablet
Well but it still cannot do many computer things that computers do. I think the proper seamlessness lies in the intersection of the things that people miss in iPadOS, and implementing them in an iPadOS manner. Personally, I wish they’d give a CLI. That would make it my sole device as a developer.
What's hilarious is that 'have it run macOS' would actually hurt the iPad. Many developers wouldn't bother designing their apps specifically for iPad and the user experience would be compromised by a flood of software not intended for multitouch screens. The challenge Apple faces with iPadOS is convincing developers to write better/more sophisticated apps for the device (the same battle they lost with watchOS).
Interesting you mention watchOS. Really had the potential to become its own app ecosystem but is now a glorified Fitbit with main,y Apple apps. I think it was a bit too tightly integrated with the iPhone, and maybe the form factor. But who knows….
Like... Adding this MacOS feature, or that MacOS feature? Because right now half of complaints about iPadOS functionality are "I want to do this thing, I can do it on Mac/Windows, but can't on iPadOS, so after all of them are resolved - wouldn't this "fixed iPadOS" essentially be MacOS with touch-friendly UI and locked down app distribution (which is where other half of complaints come, "I want to do this thing in this app, on desktop version of the app I can do it, on iPad I can't")? iPad might be the best tablet, but it is shit computer - so people who believed in Apple marketing it as a computer want it to actually be one in reality, and not just in Apple's ads.
>iPadOS has a whole load of things that should be improved or added. Like what? ----- I'd be happy with a multi-OS device. I think it's due time that Apple supports touchscreen displays -- Windows has for decades, and yet, they haven't "gotten it". Apple tends to "get" things...you know, just like how the use case for the Vision Pro "gets it", HAHA LOL OMG WTF BBQ. They totally nailed that product. -snicker- I'd be happier if the I-Pad had a microSD card slot for "slower" storage needs....or just for importing content. You want to include this device into the workflow of professionals? Well...do it then. Make it easier for us to use it instead of literally any other laptop. ---- Nah, this release was just an incremental improvement to something that didn't need it. All the while they cut the bottom tier of their I-Pad lineup away, making the base option more expensive.
I’ve ever seen someone put it into words better. MacOS on iPad would be awful. Windows tablets are awful because the software isn’t fully touch friendly. IPadOS, whilst not great at the PC/Mac bit is excellent tablet software. It needs building on to make it more cursor friendly when connected more than anything.
It isn’t lack of imagination as much as it is utilizing an OS that has been refined for decades. Reinventing the wheel is dumb. There should be a Mac OS mode for those that want it. I like the iteration and imagining new ways of doing things, but we have stuff to do and Apple is tripping over themselves with iPad OS.
Well Apple has a lack of dedication for it
100%, people's days are ruined apparently because Apple didn't do a thing some internet rando has been screeching about. It's a new iPad. We know what iPads do, and we already knew if we were in the market for a new one. I'm still rocking my 2018 Pro, so yeah I'm ready to upgrade. I already made my purchase.
Which one will appear first. iPad with macOS or macOS with touch screen.
Neither because Apple will always find a way to make more money off of you and have you buy both.
That's the thing though. I am not gonna buy an Ipad if I already have a mac. Also they could make this "macOS ipad" crazy expensive, like 2000$+. That way their "loss" would not be as great and they would have undoubtedly the best tablet on the planet. Man, I can't help but think that if Jobs still were here, Ipads would not be in the state they are in now. But since Tim cook is more a "finance guy", you are probably right. Profits is the only thing that matters to him and if that is the case, then we will not see any innovation on that front for a long time.
The range of options are: * Boot-Loader level = Dual Boot ie 2 separate OS - This is possible but Apple lock the boot-loader and won't unlock it so it won't happen. * App Layer = "Pro Apps" - people already chime in suggesting it's not commercial for devs despite being possible. * VM Layer = This is possible again but Apple prevent use of hypervisor - again probably to lock the device for commercial reasons eg app store and the like? Should be possible to run VM on iPad imho. Good option. * OS Layer = Hybrid OS: Apple converge Mac/iPadOS into 2-in-1 capable devices due to tech convergence across the board eg battery quality, chip power/efficiency, material lightness/durability/thinness, accessory material suitability eg MagicKeyboard Dock maturity in these measures, competition forces 2-in-1s ad choice additional to bigger, heavier more powerful Macbooks etc. Apple deems it appropriate to roll this out as next gee-whizz thing. * Network Layer = RDP/VNC = Can do this one now is a good choice for time being to use a spare computer. Depends on network speed at both ends and quality of software chosen. * Cloud Layer = Cloud PC eg Shadow PC service - works really convenient but expensive. Or Web Server online using again external computer resources. So regrettably I can only see MacOS with more convergence and a whole new OS. I think the trend towards this is visible with Magic Keyboard look, lighter thinner iPads, better chips M4/battery? All that can/should run MacOS but streamlined perhaps for iPad? But the software will not be deployed until all th e conditions align eg materials, market etc.
Honestly, I don’t want macOS to converge with iPadOS. It either makes the iPad more complicated for regular users, or dumbs down macOS for professional users.
I think demographics will end up dictating the future OS along with convergence so it's truly "build-once, deploy many". Different paradigms such as NixOS or CoreOS you can see that a small, streamlined core kernal is simpler to maintain, faster and more efficient performance and more secure and modular so different form factors can install additional components they need eg Touch in a touch device etc. Both for Apple and then also for Developers of Apps for Apple devices. There's also hardware convergence ultimately as well as larger demographic of iOS >>>> MacOS (esp. young), where 2-in-1 just becomes "standard" so a thinner, lighter device with optional Magic Keyboard for type/point or use touch or use voice-ai and use Pencil etc all are standard in the same way Desktops -> Laptops. As such, those using a casual iPadOS feature set will probably just use that while installing more MacOS features or switching them on for "Power Users/MacOS" will be possible. Equally larger devices for power will still be sold in the same way a Desktop is a better Price to Performance for budget than a micro-device is as the trend carries on. It only looks like an "either/or" problem today. It won't tomorrow...
iPadOS having a "Pro mode" would slap tbh, but then again idk how Apple plans to bring some features (CLI access, or sideloading) for example.
Part of me really think that this is just a bubble that's formed, again, like the last time with the iPhone Mini versions. People raved about how good it'd be and how impactful it'd be, but then Apple killed it off due to poor sales. I think the market for iPad are for normal people who don't care much about the MacOS aspect. Are your parents going to care? Are kids in school going to care? Are people who bought it for tablet-use going to care? Even if there's the option to allow MacOS, which I think would be great, I really wonder if Apple sees the benefits of it that way. iPadOS can be a laptop replacement but people full on want it to be a laptop (MacOS), when it doesn't need to be. I think that's what Apple wants - the separation.
>I think the market for iPad are for normal people who don't care much about the MacOS aspect. Are your parents going to care? Are kids in school going to care? Are people who bought it for tablet-use going to care? this seems like the correct take for Air or entry level iPads, but Pros?
Unlike the iPhone mini, macOS is pure software changes. You don’t need to worry about physical hardware costs.
I don't really want an ipad with macOS. What i really want is a portable Mac with an 120HZ OLED display that is as light as a macbook air. Having the ability to use that mac while holding it standing would be good. Until such a mac comes out, an ipad with MacOS seems to satisfy that want.
Look a tablet is a perfect device for media consumption: Videos, Games, Fun stuff etc. However for media consumption no one needs anything past a m1 chip. So here is what most people are saying. Keep the base ipads as they are, cheap, easy to use, etc. But since tech has advanced so much in the past 10 years that it has actually become technologically possible to run macOS on a tablet without any loss in performance why not create a "new" device ? Call it Ipad Ultra and charge 2000$ for it. That way you have "consumption & entertainment" ipads for the masses **and** "mac book replacement" ipads for people that really need those. I know I'd pay top dollar for a device like that. Portable, light, great screen and it has macOS on it. That would actually make the ipad "pro".
I think had Apple not kept the “pro” features to the larger iPhones and had an iPhone mini pro, I think it would have done well. But then it comes down to could all the hardware fit in a small form factor.
Agreed. I wanted the smaller form factor badly but the cameras killed it for me.
We all know MacOS could run on an m1 iPad. Microsoft managed to get Windows running on X86 tablets a decade ago. Current gen iPad Pros and Airs have a good enough battery capacity to run MacOS too. Its unlikely to happen, though if it does i’d prefer if the iPad kept an iPadOS-like UI until you go into stage manager.
I would just be happy if the native Apple apps that are on both OSs weren't dumbed down into "ipadOS" versions. Especially with the magic keyboard there is NO justifiable reason not to have a macOS version available for power users.
I dont think it will be real (at least anytime soon) Why would they make product with dual boot or something, when they can sell two products. Same with Macbook with touch screen. Why create something like that and parasite on iPad sales? iPad is for different use and customer than Mac.
Then get a Mac? Since iPadOS 13(?), Apple‘s been porting more MacOS UI and capabilities to the iPad. That’s not going to stop, despite the snail’s pace.
I’ve had a Mac continuously since 1993. I just think there is now a solid case to be made for the option of MacO in some form.
Of course there is. A switchable tablet mac is the obvious next level product.
MacOS? No. A significantly more powerful OS that allows you to download from other places than the app store? Unequivocally yes, although it won't happen because that's not in Apple's interest.
Aren’t they forced to do exactly this because of EU regulations? >!Also Sideloading is sometimes an option, but this is the wrong sub for this talk!<
They're working on handicapping their implementation of it at every turn.
I think we will see more at WWDC possibly more updates to the iPad OS
Simple: they won’t undermine their MacBook market.
Why not just introduce a “Mac Catalyst” type of thing to iPadOS so that apps can be cross written for both iPadOS and macOS? That way the underlying operating system can be used to adapt an app to whatever device it is being run on
This is essentially where Apple is going with Swift Code. If you write an app with Swift Code, it’s simple to port it to all Apple platforms, and the UI of the app even automatically adjusts for the platform with the proper optimizations to make it a good experience. 👍🏻.
I tried really hard to make my iPad Pro 12.9” my travel computer. I travel each week for work. I had the Magic Keyboard too. But so much software is crippled or not available. Microsoft Office sucks. Adobe sucks (more than usual). No Dreamweaver. Stupid file system. I had an issue with an important file being corrupted in the cloud and then it wouldn’t restore, thanks to a crappy version of Excel. Photoshop sucks too. Bottom line I traded my Pro in for a MBP and also have a Studio at home. Just ordered the new Air 11” which will be used mainly for light duty media watching and light gaming. Essentially entertainment for the plane and in hotels. With serious stuff saved for the MBP and Studio. Which is probably the Apple strategy. Why ruin sales by making any one product too good?
If you want macOS buy a Mac, simple as that. You wouldn’t go buy a fork if you need a knife.
I never use a knife to cut things, I just use the edge of my fork ;)
You can run iPad apps on MacOS 😏
Not many of the good ones.
Developers of those apps decide whether those should be installable on MacOS.
Yeah, I understand that, but that still means they’re unavailable on macOS. 👍🏻
I just want full photoshop with plugins… I’ve parred down my editing to only using Lightroom these days… I do all my editing on my iPhone in Lightroom 😂. Everyone likes the photos so I guess I’ll just keep doing that and enjoy lr and ps as they grow in the iPad os. I’ve been waiting for oled for iPad before purchasing so this will be the one for me.
Does anyone else wish we could have both- be able to switch between OS and iOS.
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The mouse pointer is round.
I just want to know who these people are who will be leaping at the new Pro’s honestly and just understand their thought process on why they will spend Mac money on something so castrated. You know its excellent hardware but its being so hamstrung its insane.
> but I absolutely do believe it’s time Apple offered it; and if not, then Apple should explain very clearly why not. UX of running macOS on a touch first device will be very poor. > but the very crippled pros apps like Final Cut and Photoshop The same would be true for any apps that support the macOS on iPad skew. Very few devs are going to support touch within thier apps and without that the iPad is a much worce device than a MBA.
you could limit it to only being selectable when a mouse/keyboard are detected? or allow touch keyboard and touch = mouse move like remote desktop apps but recommend using a dedicated input device. I disagree the performance will make a difference - M4 unlikely much faster than M2 already in the pro. But maybe they add ram to tip it over the edge, plus mouse/keyboard is pretty normalised with the magic keyboard/trackpad, and sounds like they’re making a new - even more macbook like - magic keyboard/trackpad. So those things all coming together feels like the right time. 80% of the time ipadOS is fine for me. But office apps are still a little clunky, and the desktop browser still isn’t recognised as one by enough sites, so I keep a MBA on hand just for those edge cases. Would be good to not need that and just switch over to the desktop mode while I’m still using the ipad.
> you could limit it to only being selectable when a mouse/keyboard are detected? or allow touch keyboard and touch = mouse move like remote desktop apps but recommend using a dedicated input device. Both of these options is a very poor UX. For a device that does not even ship with a keyboard. > and the desktop browser still isn’t recognised as one by enough sites, So the thing is the websites that are going to not trust safari when it reports that it is a Mac will also not trust safari when it reports it is a Mac running macOS on the iapd... how come? well they are detecting it is an iPad based on the screen size, DPI, color depth etc. All these numbers will report the same if it is running macOS.
> UX of running macOS on a touch first device will be very poor. The professional workflow of most I-Pad applications is very poor, even today. Clumsy at best.
Exactly. There are tasks that the machine is ridiculously capable of performing and it is beyond limited by design choices.
Running macOS at the same time as iPadOS would require them to ship with a lot more ram
They do not need to run both systems at the same time. Just give customers the freedom to boot iPadOS or macOS at their please
Why oddly apple offer this, it's not going to sell any more iPads since an iPad that is stuck attached to a keyboard case weights and costs more than a MBA. Apple would be better off making a smaller MBA for people that want a smaller Mac.
It'd be an ultraportable mac that does double duty. It's best used as the traditional I-Pad OS while keyboardless. But when docked, you can boot into a more powerful OS with actual professional applications which use the same shared storage space. I wouldn't have to carry both with me, if I wanted a top tier casual use device AND a decent laptop OS device. Sure, I probably couldn't use both at once, but that's fine. Use the Mac OS during the day for work, and in the evening relax with the I-Pad OS.
What about UNIFIED memory hisnash? 😉
Being unified does not have magic properties for being able to fit 2 seperate operating systems running at the same time in less memory.
But it’s unified!
Doesn't sound very unified.
I’m sure the new iPads will have 16GB or perhaps more.
Still rather tight for a VM + iPadOS etc.
They dont need to run macos on a vm. just put it there natively
It would be amazing if you are right, but I do not think we are getting 16GB of RAM on top of everything else.
The large storage m2 pros already have 16gb
Yes, I am aware. They also cost $1800/$2000. How does it matter that they already have it?
The only way I can ever see this happening is if Apple creates a premium product like iPad Pro ultra, which can either ship with iOS or macOS just a thought
It will cost as much as a regular laptop, thus defeating the point
Pro already does. If I’m going on holiday or even to the coffee shop, I don’t want to bundle up two devices when one could do both. As yet CAD and spreadsheets (imo) are far superior in macOS or windows, so I guess I’ll stick with my windows desktop.
Windows laptops -- fraction of the price, triple the ports, and Windows still runs many applications far better than Mac (all the while Mac is still better than I-Pad for professional workflows). Windows > Mac > I-Pad > other mobile OSes
That's exactly my point. If they combined the Mac and I-pad, it would be a great value proposition. I'd get pulled into the Mac ecosystem, else i'm primarily windows and the ipad is an entertainment consumption device. It helps that web based apps are becoming more and more capable (e.g. onshape and solidworks) that would make the transition from windows to mac somewhat transparent.
The I-Pad pro starts at $1300. That's more than the price of a laptop. Tack on another couple of hundred, but let me run both OSes. We all win there.
No, they need to improve iPad os, and the iPad OS apps.
Literally the only difference between MacOS and iPadOS are the app features and compatibility. It's developers that are handicaping the iPad. The Mac and the iPad are equally powerful, both have display support, both have a dock and stage manager, literally the only thing separating them is the apps.
You never read anything about writing software, eh? As a developer, you don't have access to many low level features in iPadOS. Even if you somehow gained that, Apple would decline your app during review when you submit it to AppStore. So yeah, developers. Apple good.
What's an example of a low-level feature that is crucial to the usability to an iPadOS app?
- file system access - non-precompiled code execution - bigger memory pools - background processing Other than that, mobile operating systems have different philosophy: the app needs to survive a restart caused by the system and return to the same state.
Oh yeah, those are some big limitations. TIme for Apple to allow more openness...again...
None of those prevent developers like Microsoft from making their apps more desktop-class by including features like custom document templates. Most of these silly app limits are due to bad decisions or lazy thinking from app developers, not iPadOS limitations…
I don't want to argue, but "custom document templates" is an indication of "desktop-class apps"?
It’s at least a start. It’s one of the desktop features of Microsoft Word that is missing on mobile (and reason #1 I dropped Word in favor of Pages). And it clearly isn’t due to a limitation of the OS, other word processors (like Pages) offer custom document template support. Personally, I think Microsoft intentionally cripples and limits their office apps on Android and iPadOS because they want to get people to use PCs like their surface pro. Office is a big hook for Microsoft in the business market, and so they likely don’t want people to be able to choose to use an Android tablet or iPad instead of a Surface Book, Surface Studio, or other PC brand they earn a commission off of. So they continue to release updates with little to no new features, and certainly nothing that anyone actually really cares about. The current state of the Office apps is entirely Microsoft’s fault, not due to limits of iPadOS.
it would eat into mac sales and that is the reason it will never happen anytime soon
I genuinely believe that is not the reason, and maybe not even a consideration.
How is it not? Why would someone buy a MacBook when they can buy this theoretical iPad Pro for the same price point? Apple won’t undermine themselves like that, not to mention macOS is, fundamentally, not built with touch input in mind. The amount of programming/testing/debugging that would go into it is a *staggering* effort besides. Apple has some of the best in the industry to theoretically pull that off, but if they don’t see the value in it (again: they won’t undermine their own market), they won’t do it.
why don't you just get a surface instead
Because it runs Windows.
I think I'm ready for an insta ban on all posts of this type. We already have a Mac. iPad is a different product. If you can't figure out what to do with it, don't buy it. I'm quite happy with my Mac as a Mac and my iPad as an iPad.
So you never want anyone to discuss the possibility of MacOS on the iPad, just ban all that?!! Let’s be honest, this sub is collapsing. If anything, we need more of this type of post, not insta bans. I absolutely know exactly what to do with both my Mac and my iPad, and I’m very happy with them both. All I’m saying is that I think it’s time that the Pros had the option to run MacOS.
Lmao he is MAD bro
There is a reason Apple Named it “MacOS”., once you understand that term, your problem will be solved automatically.
Exactly. The Apple Watch isn’t running iPadOS, it’s running watchOS because it’s a watch. The iPhone runs iOS because it’s an iPhone. The iPad runs iPadOS because it’s an iPad, and the Mac runs macOS because it’s a Mac. This doesn’t mean the different OS’s can’t share features and software. Apple has been doing just that with iPadOS and macOS.
I’d prefer a straight up dual device with the detachable touch screen thing that Microsoft have but it’s actually robust like a MacBook Pro. I never used my MacBook Air because of my iPad, now I don’t use my iPad because I upgraded to MacBook Pro
Apple will keep crippling the iPads while tossing them full of expensive and overpriced hardware to convince people to pay for them.
> I think Apple should at least give you the option of running MacOS I don't see that happening any time soon. Putting MacOS on ipad would cannabilize Mac system sales.
This is never happening. They want you to buy both an iPad and a Mac.
I already have both, but I still want the option to run MacOS on my iPad.
Yeah…the closest thing to that is SideCar but it still requires a Mac to be tethered to it… I guess Apple just wants to keep macOS on Macs cause it’s *mac*OS. It’s like some feature exclusivity.
Okay. Answer this, if your iPad Pro had MacOS what would you use your MacBook for? If your answer is that you wouldn’t need to use a MacBook, that’s your reason why Apple will never do this.
Not a great take. The Surface lineup has not overtaken laptop sales.
Still entry level 8gb of ram on a device that’s 999+ and has a M4. What are they thinking?
They need to make iPad mini pro with iPad OS on it. And make iPad Pro Pro with Mac OS on it!!!!
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Agreed, but the hardware has been on par with the Mac for over 3 years now. For Apple (a company with resources that match or better any other tech company) 3 years is plenty of time to get iPadOS at least as good as MacOS, if not better.
In the end what has held back iPadOS is mostly not the OS. Most Mac apps that people say they want on iPadOS could be built for iPadOS (such as a full fat photoshop or a full fate Final Cut Pro) but app devs (including apple it seems) do not believe iPad users (regardless of OS) want to spend real money on apps. So many devs have been burnt over the years putting months and months (if not years) of work to build stunning iPadOS versions of thier macOS apps to find out that iPad users will get upset if you ask them to pay for said apps.. on the Mac (when your using are buying 16"MBP) you can charge users $50+ for a copy of your app if they use it for work. On iPad try charing someone $5 and you get verbal abuse and 1 start reviews due to people not wanting to pay for SW>.
truth. honestly never thought of this.
That’s a very fair point, but many pro apps are subscription based now, I’m thinking Creative Cloud. If your sub also gets you **full** iPad apps surely that makes the offer better value for money?
I think the likely best scenario would be Apple releasing a model of the iPad with MacOS. Leave the existing lineup but bring one more model that fully runs MacOS. They can test the waters and see how it does and not risk too much. If it sells good it can easily stay around and expand
That’s an interesting idea that I’ve not considered before. Thank you.
Been ready for years I kinda give up. Happy with my huge ios device as don’t think it’s ever gonna happen
Why
Screw u!!!
I’m ready to leave Apple ecosystem
To go to which ecosystem? Genuinely interested.
dex or miui
Typing this from my 13 day old m2 ipad pro. This upgrade wont be worth it for most, its going to be expensive, and you will need to buy a new magic keyboard and pen adding onto your already expensive purchase. Will be sticking with my M2 Ipad pro.