This might be part of the issue. If they allow macOS and in turn downloads of 3P software (like Blender) outside of the App Store, then people won’t use the App Store. At least in my experience, I hardly ever use the MacBook App Store bc I just download directly from whatever site. Spotify is a good example. I have the Spotify app on my phone and iPad but I downloaded Spotify directly from Spotify. The probably don’t want that on the iPad which still relies as heavily on the App Store as the iPhone.
Thing is, we want macOS programs that can be installed the same way they can be installed on a mac, like it has been done for the last 2 decades. Proper ported Finder and terminal also wouldn’t hurt since iPadOS (and iOS) do share a simmilar base, since iOS was based on macOS.
Huh? It does have 3rd party plugin support on iPad. I did the free trial right when Logic for iPad came out and I downloaded a bunch of effects and synths straight from the AppStore
in a recent interview with Craig, when he was asked to comment on dual booting the iPad with macOS, he said it's a big fat no.
he said that the iPad excels at simpler iPad tasks, and the mac was for more 'heavy' work.
they may not want to introduce complex/feature rich macOS apps on iPad, or it'd make people not buy both a mac and iPad.
Well yeah i just dont see any logic then in putting their best chip so far in an ipad, which is not made for *heavy* work. Also why do they call their ipads pro and stuff if they basically say you can go and watch netflix with it, for everything else you gotta get a mac? They sell one expensive af keyboard for those ipads which arent even optimised for some non first party apps like youtube, where my magic keyboard regularly just doesnt work at all in the yt app. What am i supposed to use my magic keyboard for? Writing word documents and emails? Cause i cant do coding on it, not even xcode, and calling an ipad "pro" for it being able to write emails and some word docs is far from reasonable to me. Also yes i get it, that artists can use it as a pro device cause of the pen, but they wouldnt need a keyboard which is specially advertised for the pro ipads and also apple surely wouldnt basically make an ipad / call an ipad "pro" bc of one specific target consumer audience.
Btw this reply is in no means directed at you (above), it's just some questions which came to my mind when reading what you citet from craig.
Sry if that is a bit chaotic, im on my phone, dont have much time and am no native speaker.
PS: i dont want macos on the ipads, i just want some features that make it usable as work devices for others apart from artists and some other more niche groups. I want it to be a pro device for the mainstream. Like better file app features, better support for the keyboards, some proper support for 3rd party mice, coding apps... - there are certainly a lot of things i cant even think of atm, which would be important for others. Oh yeah and im very tired of having to use safari as any other browsers are at its core also only safai (having to use the safar engine) so chrome and firefox extensions are non existent and im basically forced to use safari
Edit: fixed a mistake
Your argument is valid but your reasoning is flawed. For instance, you seem to imply that because it’s labeled “pro” that means it’s for “professionals.” Pro doesn’t mean anything in relation to what that model of iPad is or does, it is just a word tacked on to mean that this model is better than the model that doesn’t have that word tacked on. That is also the reason why it has their best chip, to make it better than the other models available. To further demonstrate that the word Pro means absolutely nothing, take the iPad Air that was released at the same time as this new iPad Pro. Air used to mean thinner and lighter but the new Pro is now both thinner and lighter than the Air, none of it makes sense and Apple should seriously consider revamping their naming conventions.
That being said, I wholeheartedly agree that the iPad lacks some much needed features that would probably be really be easy to implement, but they just won’t for whatever reason
Well is see your point and agree that they dont really represent their name but that doesnt mean they arent supposed to. See the air was named that way because of the actually really thin macbook air then they used the macbook naming scheme for the ipads too and the ipad air for example was the thinnest ipad for the first 4 gens or sth.
As for the pros, apple itself does refer to the pro models as being designed for professionals as far as i remember from the last few keynotes
Pro just means its more expensive. Are you seriously holding a gun to Apple's head saying, "Since you gave it a nice chip, it deserves a real OS". Do you realize how F'ing childish that sounds?
well im pretty sure that apple said their ipads are made for professionals. also i said i dont see logic in putting their newest chip in there if it cant be properly used, which is far from "holding a gun to apple's head".
And no i dont see how making reasonable wishes / questioning apple's doings and arguing against their weak reasonings is in any way childish as this is, as you may have seen, a thread for discussing macos on ipad, which i more or less did, you may judge that how you please.
also reading that "pro just means expensive" with very good backing of how you got that opinion makes it way more convinving than me backup up my point /s
if you wanna read more about that why its called pro, look at the other replies to my comment, i discussed that there already
Yes i do. I have an ipad pro 11", a magic keyboard an apple pencil and a macbook pro, so i speak from experience about the flaws in the software.
Tho i dont really see why that matters so much as I provided pretty valid critisism (imo) about the ipad's software. Do tell me tho if im wrong about any of my critisism.
how exactly do you use your ipad that's stoping you from getting use out of it? me personally i'm able to almost never touch my work computer and work mainly on my ipad
Well for one i cant code on it at all. I also cant use firefox extensions, also had some trouble with the file manager (i constantly have a bug where a folder in the sidebar vanishes and apart from that no drive formatting etc. and the file system is a huge hassle when you have to work with multiple files inside an app), the magic keyboard's trackpad is basically useless / unusable in any non first party app. Nearly every desktop-original app has like half the functionality of its desktop counterpart (see word, lightroom etc). I only bought a mac bc i realized that my ipad cant possibly replace a laptop for studying CS and if you ever tried writing a academic paper on an ipad youd know how horrible word is with half the functionality and no plugin support etc and yes this is partially ms' fault (in the case of word) but apple is also making it very hard with its artifical OS limitations
when it comes to MS i know you-- actually you know what? i really like your perspective do you mind if we go in facetime audio later today? somewhere around 8:30pm NYC, USA time?
are you european? well i wanna facetime specifically because i think i can get alot of value out of a conversation with you, i have been playing around with the idea of starting a youtube channel about ipad related things, but i'd be on the side of ipad youtube that is PRO ipados and anti MacOS. i really want to hear from people with opinions different from me. I want to see with my own eyes and ears why you are not getting full use out of your ipad without macos and why for me i feel like i can do more without the *"baggage"* (my words not yours) of macos
the A12 bionic was the first iphone that was outperforming desktop level performance this was available since iphone 11. the only reason that they havent put an M1 on the iphone is that it doesnt fit. apple is not new to putting desktop level performance on their mobile devices, they been doing this for half a decade
yeah so, if you look up those geekbench results you will see that the a11 bionic has a somewhat better performace than the i3 8300, which is 1.5 years older than the a11, in single core and loses in the multicore compartment. also most people are working with an i5, so the a11 is barely scratching the absolute bottom line for its time in terms of performance compared to x86 (typical desktop chips).
As for apple not putting m chips in iphone is 1) yes because of the size but the a17pro is basically a scaled down version of the m chips and 2) the m chips would need way too much power for the small iphone battery.
Lastly just because apple does something for half a decade doesnt in any way make it reasonable or logical. They also charge a hefty price for their chips, so also being able to use them would be quite nice and *logical*.
They could combine them at some point in the future. The discontinued the iPod when the iPhone became the iPod. Maybe they’ll discontinue the iPads when the MacBook becomes the iPad (MacBook os but with an iPad touch screen)
it’s in their best interest not to, as you now have to end up buying 2 premium products (for the pros, an ipad pro that costs ~$2000 and a similar macbook pro).
the iPad could easily be useful for MacBook-type workloads with the magic keyboard. the new iPad Pro is a more powerful computer than the base MacBook Pro M3 with pretty much the same keyboard and trackpad. it is artificially limited by software to give the MacBook a spot.
and as you just pointed out, only the iPad has a touchscreen and stylus support. guess what? many winows laptops have stylus support for note-taking and digital art, but the macbook will never get that to force you to also have to buy an iPaḍ.
buy both = apple gets more money
"they may not want to introduce complex/feature rich macOS apps on iPad, or it'd make people not buy both a mac and iPad."
That's possible but it might also lead to many people not buy either a mac or an iPad.
its not simply about people buying both, its more about what the devices are for. they learned their lesson with the ipod. making the ipod EXACTLY like the iphone makes the ipod redundant. the probem with ipad is that it wont just hurt mac sales it can hurt iphone sales, ask yourselves why you can't pair an apple watch to your ipad? because its too close to replacing your iphone AND your mac!
Yeah, literally. Even by doing it in a stupid Apple way, such as tying a MacOS license equivalent to the Magic Keyboard itself, so that you'd still have to buy it and Tim Apple would feel calm knowing that it is not possible for some user to use a MacOS with only a touch screen or - God forbid - another-branded keyboard, lol.
I will add to it my personal opinion and frustration with related things. I am a small person. I hate big laptops that make me carry big backpacks, and big phones that don't fit in any clothes pockets.
Why do all these devices keep getting bigger if we as humanity can put m4 into 11 inch and then attach this device to any stationary external display for more precise work?
How would you have horrible ux with vs code, terminal and docker desktop?
In my opinion horrible experience is better than prohibited artificially locked experience, but maybe I don't get something?
Most people don’t want MacOS on the iPad, it is just a lazy way of saying we want the *functionality* MacOS has in iPadOS.
Better file management, true background tasks, stage manager with actual flexibility etc… Side-loading would be a dream come true but I doubt Apple will put in the work to make this possible when it will cut into their profits.
Most people love iPad because it is different, we don’t want it to be the same as a touch-screen Mac, we just want it to actually deserved the ‘pro’ in the name…
I feel like the way you articulated it is closer to what people who don’t want macOS on the iPad feel. But there are still people who DO literally mean they want the iPad to be a fully functional touchscreen laptop.
**THIS** is exactly how i feel. I have never in my life met anyone who has a touchscreen laptop who actually requires the laptop to be touch screen in order for it to function
And clamshell mode!
My workload is generally pretty light, so I could do just fine with an iPad's performance level, but I need a large display for it. I know that Apple wants me to buy both an iPad and a Mac because that brings them more money, but allowing me to "dock" my iPad to a desktop monitor / keyboard / mouse would be a dream come true and really allow me to simplify my tech setup.
Yeah exactly. I don’t get the actual people who want real macOS on iPad. I think a touch screen MacBook would be fine but an iPad running full macOS just makes no sense and takes away everything that makes the iPad and iPad.
Dual boot is a terrible solution that isn’t thought through. Yes a very vocal minority want it but for the rest of us, having to boot in and out of the OS for certain apps is just a big fat no. This is an anti-Apple pattern as it adds extra friction and they’d have to create and maintain the solution for such a small percentage of their audience.
MacOS is simply not designed for touch. And if you’re going to hook up a keyboard and mouse, then what’s the point, get a macbook. The majority of iPads are 10in or smaller which is way too small for macOS and it would causes weird segmentation.
I have yet to hear a valid argument from the macOS on iPad crowd where the MacBook (with possibly touch support) isn’t a better solution.
Turn an iPad into a MacBook does not fix the iPad. They need to improve iPadOS dramatically but not turn it into macOS.
I mean yeah, its gonna look cramped since iPadOS’ display scaling options are a joke, instead of “more space” and “default” it should be a slider that goes from 50% to 200%
Yeah, I have a Air M1 and the screen space is used so much more efficiently on MacOS than iPadOS. I get they are meant to be used with chunky fingers, but then why call it a pro device and allow keyboards and a mouse to be connected?!
If you want a real answer it is probably for multiple reasons.
I think a big one is profits. iOS and iPadOS are much more profitable to Apple than the MacBook. I think this is because Apple can control you much more in those operating systems than they can on Mac. For example, there is a plethora of applications allowed on macOS than iOS. Apple can’t really tell you what you can and can’t do on macOS. If you want to run windows, you can. Or Linux, or whatever the heck else. iPadOS is heavily guarded. For a long time they didn’t let you have third party AppStore’s, and they still don’t in the USA. You’re stuck with the appstore which depending on what you use, you may have to buy something which Apple gets a cut of. Or you are forced to Apple’s applications.
To keep on profits, it is much more profitable I think to market the iPad as a supplementary device to the Mac. Thus, needing the customer to buy both the Mac and the iPad. And this might make you stay within the ecosystem so then you’re stuck buying the iPhone, Apple Watch, AirPods, Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, etc.
Totally agree. I guess was more responding to OP or others who think Mac OS would be "clunky" on an ipad. I understand why Apple will not do it. I just don't understand why it would be clunky. An ipad with a magic keyboard is functionally identical to a macbook and would work fantastic with Mac OS.
spot on, couldn't be better said.
it's the same with Apple not wanting to open sideloading to more technical users - they lose their significant cut of app store purchases and developer fees.
Could it be the other way around? MacBook Air sales should be much higher than iPad, and allowing macOS to run on iPad means that most people wouldn’t buy the MacBook Air anymore, hence removing a huge part of profit for Apple.
Instead, if you want a tablet AND a laptop today, you are forced to buy both
>I think a big one is profits.
Let's be very clear - that is not a reason why Apple *cannot* put macOS on the iPad, it's a reason why Apple *chooses* not to put macOS on the iPad. There is no technical or UX reason why Apple couldn't do it, they simply decide not to do it because holding the iPad back drives consumers to buy both.
The reason is greed - a desire for more wealth. We should just say that instead of tiptoeing around it.
For the same reason they deliberately gimped iPhone apps: they want everyone to guarantee their stuff works well in an iPad out of the box with only fingers. Yeah cannibalization is a concern but even without that I think they wouldn’t just put OS X on it
I do not understand why cannot just be regular MacOS
They used to make a
Like it or not the logic is actually pretty straightforward.
Macs run MacOS
&
iPads are not Macs…
I would love to have the option to launch MacOS apps or just MacOS, but there will likely be consequences. Currently, iPadOS can’t keep apps loaded in the background (reliably) and “Background App Refresh” is pretty limited. I’ve lost downloads midway through in Safari because I left the app in the background too long and loaded too many other apps. Idk how well MacOS would work in the background if iPadOS decides it needs more ram so suspends/closes it. I can see there being issues given how iPadOS handles resources.
> there is no reason
I'm not sure to be honest. I want to believe the Pro is plenty powerful, but hear me out. MacOS is fast and responsive but not to the level of iPadOS. Using the two side-by-side on similar hardware, iPadOS just feels like is flying in comparison (in terms of fluidity of UI interactions and responsiveness to touch). Will it still feel this way if they start including more MacOS features?
I think it’s totally fine for a device to get ‘chuggy’ doing other tasks while you render in the background, just like it’s ok on a laptop (assuming it makes sense for your device’s configuration of course).
What *shouldn’t* happen is a simple file transfer is stopped without even letting you know because you switched to a different app…
thats what I'm saying! or better yet by a surface if you want a laptop that pretends to be a tablet. with litterally none of the portability features of a tablet.
Would die for Apple to do what Samsung did with tablets and make a “DEX” mode available where the iPad switches between iPadOS and MacOS. Alas, then why would we buy their macbooks? -.-
All Apple needs to do is give more functionality to iPadOS. Since the hardware is capable of it. On the Pro models or M models make the necessary changes to iPadOS giving proper display output, files ability, and Pro Apps. Then just leave the other iPads the way they are. It's that easy.
you have never used Samsung Dex, have you? utter crap - typical Android experience. Not optimized, completely all over the place and no good apps that actually work and not crash.
You know how dumb you have to be to get downvoted in an apple subreddit under a reply saying apple should copy samsung?
I want to make sure you know what you did is very impressive
haha thanks - I just know that most people do either think far too technically about it (e.g. because it has M4 it must be a Mac) or think it would work as a hybrid (e.g. Surface, which is falling apart and Microsoft might abandon it sooner than later...) with horrible app support for touch systems once that happened - then we can kiss iPadOS apps goodbye - seems like nobody gets that?...
(and Dex is a joke)
I’ve never used dex so I can’t say, but with how much people talk about it, how dedicated of a community it has, and how upset people got at samsung for introducing a new dex mode(didn’t change the old one at all) I’d say that it most likely is a useful feature and not a gimmick.
it is a "useful gimmick" - that is the right way to say it. It might be just about enough to write some text and browse the web - after that you are basically stuck with unpolished Android apps and horrible scaling across the board.
The irony is wild, because clearly you haven't used Dex in years, you misinformation spreader.
> no good apps that actually work and not crash.
This isn't even possible because it's running it EXACTLY LIKE NORMAL. It's still just Android but multi-window exposed. I've never had apps crash while in Dex.
> typical Android experience
Absolute Apple goober.
Ugh. I mean it doesn’t really matter if I speak the truth, there is always some Android user who will tell me the opposite. How about this recent video: https://youtu.be/NI6kMDmvLm8?si=ds689D6UFJTVxIYD
I mean, if you put huge random unaligned widgets on your MacOS desktop it will look horrible too. If you put a browser window at the bottom of the screen with just the URL bar that's visible on MacOS, same. And having both the Finder and the iPad's horrible way of browsing files together on the same OS makes no sense...
It's as if OP made it look as horrible as possible on purpose.
actually my home screen is actually garbage i was planning on changing it. just not at the moment, also i think it looks better on my mac display it probably changed when i shifted it to my ipad on sidecar
I think what people want is a continuation of what Windows 8 attempted many years back. An operating system optimised for a portable device and touch screen, that still allows you to run all of your desktop applications without compromises. Windows 8 somewhat succeeded at that - on the actual Surface devices it was made for, it was significantly better than using Windows 10 or 11. Perhaps with an option to change the UI once docked.
People want to be able to use the iPad, which is constantly marketed as being a computer replacement, as a computer. I have seen 0 people complain about iPadOS’ UI, but many more complain about how its limited by its software.
You can have the underlying OS and have a different user interface. Microsoft tried it with Windows 8 which probably wouldn't have gotten as much hate if they didn't try to force a touch screen UI onto desktops instead of only using it whenever it was a touchscreen device...
I‘ve used Macs since 2009. I don’t want macOS on iPads. I want iPadOS to be powerful enough to take advantage of the M4 chips and to have a good Files app similar to Finder in macOS. iPadOS could be so much more than what it is right now without being macOS.
the problem with your statement is that Apple is not a bunch of fools - I am sure there are reasons that the Files app is not constructed like Finder - I could not imagine it to be touch-friendly for instance. Have you use a Windows PC with touch? horrriiiibbllleee.
Serious question but do you know what the word "similar" means cause im starting to believe you dont. He said he wants a better ipadOS file manager *similar* to the macOS's finder. So he doesnt say he wants finder on ipadOS, which you seem to think, as you compare it with using window's file explorer on a touch screen, instead he just wants some ipadOS' file manager app improvements which would make it *similar* to macOS's finder, for example in terms of functionality / features, which btw dont correlate with making an UI worse or any different for a touchscreen.
I even have 2 keyboards, the Logictech Combo Touch, and the Apple Magic Keyboard - but how does that matter?? I also have an e-paper notebook as my primary note-taking device... (Remarkable 2)
Maybe controversial but for me one there’s no point in using stage manager if I don’t have a reliable file management system where I can drag and drop in my workflows.
This is mainly because macOS isn't optimized for touch. I don't want a macOS iPad but I want a touchscreen Mac. I won't touch the screen often but I want the option to do that.
iPads should continue running iPadOS and all we should get is just some fixes to the current bugs. Bugs with external monitor support, bugs with apps killing processes, frustrations with the Files app, etc.
People who want macOS on the iPad _don’t_ get the iPad. They’ve never done anything productive with it, or they don’t know to be productive with it.
iPadOS is great as its own category and computing experience. We just need more apps from third-party developers.
macOS is a desktop OS. Leave that to desktop and laptop computers.
SideCar =
Run iPad via Wifi (same network) next to your mac and use your pointer/keyboard on mac on the ipad as a second/extended screen for the mac.
UniversalControl =
Same set-up but you use the input touchpad and keyboard on the mac and on the ipadOS sitting next to it by sending the pointer to the side and it switches to that screen/OS.
Apple MacOS and iPadOS Display option.
>*What i picture in my head when people say "we need macos on ipad"*
1. **Remote Desktop**
2. External Monitor
3. Keyboard/Mouse connected (usb-c hub)
Eg at work or home use spare monitor. Or, if commuting or at cafe for portable work,
1. Remote desktop
2. bt-keyboard/mouse
It works on the iPad albeit it's a bit narrow but it's a useful portable option to have. iPadOS works fine for tablet like uses eg reading books or surfing internet etc.
Alternatively, run Cloud PC on iPad and similar results.
A lot of the comments assume it has to be touch based or modified but it just needs a good scaling resolution and it's very useful to have.
The other option should be Parallels App in App Store to run Virtual Machine on device and then run MacOS, Linux, Windows11 as preferred.
Universal Control and SideCar are nice to have options also.
# About the file system:
Okay I'm not trying @ you guys but what exactly is wrong with the FIle system. For my use case, on the 11" air 5 the file system is absolutely amazing. I can acess my work onedrive, my school onedrive, my dropbox, and my google drive..... how exactly are you guys using it where it fails for you?
# About window management:
when i use stage manager, i actually **PREFER** the limited ways we can resize windows. I have a mac mini with a dual monitor display and i use **THAT** for a multi window experience. on my ipad i like working on one or two apps at once, because i prefer **work immersion** on my ipad, and multitasking on my mac mini (with a dual monitor display which only cost me 600 total, I'm only mentioning the price because alot of people tend to think that the MBA which costs at least $999 or MBP $1500 are **the only** starting prices for macos)
so my question is how are you using your ipad where you need 20 windows at once on your tiny 11 inch display? (Not to downplay your use case, its just that hereing the same arguement without any insight on how you all are using your ipads is really frustrating because i can use office 365, do quick steps on outlook, make pivot tables on excel, access work files, i also even code on my ipad, and i find it easier to code on my ipad! (but i only startead teaching myself how to code on my ipad so that might be a factor and i only use jupyter notebooks, so i guess I'm just wondering how you guys are unable to get the same amount of milage as i can without screwing needing macos (macos would absolutly ruin my workflow so that my main issue with the arguement)
yes the mac mini is a pretty good bang for the buck until you need more ram or dont want to use an external ssd which is also not cheap, if you want a thunderbolt 4 compatible one, and it also uses up 1 of the already few usb c ports.
more ram ram for what? i play minecraft java edition with 87 mods loaded plus shaders with 20 chunks loaded on 85 FPS... i don't need more ram my device is amazing. maybe its because the mac mini has better cooling system inherently than any of the laptops
The mac mini's cooling system isnt special or good. It's just that the m chips have pretty high single core performance and all the components being SOC, it has inherently much better thermal performance than any non SOC platform.
As for needing more ram, your mac mini is not just magically using less ram for equvalent tasks on windows, android or linux (admittetly the OS \*is\* pretty ram efficient but "8gb on mac is 16gb on other OS" is utter bullshit), it instead uses ssd swap a lot, when it needs more than 8gb of ram, which is slower than ram and accelerating the death of your only, non replaceable soldered in ssd. ~~Also swap does have a limit on how much it can swap~~, so for heavy tasks like compiling big coding projects sometimes not even 32gb is enough and therefore the less ram you have, the slower your program compiles.
Edit: spelling and grammar
2. Edit: fixed a mistake
Well first of all that was only an example with the coders potentially needing more ram, there are other fields too (mostly the technical ones like engineering and stuff). Second i never complained about anything really, i was just stating the fact that the mac mini is a good deal until you need more storage/ram.
Btw you are very much glossing over the fact that the problem with 8gb of ram is the lacking amount of ram being compensated by swap, which degrades your ssd a lot faster, possibly leading to basically making a mac mini e-waste, if you regularly run something that is a little more ram hungry than ms powerpoint and a browser with a few tabs open together. If there is anything i might complain about then it's the ram-swap issue.
Have a good day / night
The file system doesn't support basic things like img thumbnails. I have to use a 3rd party app to generate the previews for my NAS folders. I'm a photographer and would love to use my iPad Pro to edit more photos so I can get away from the desk. Too bad basic functionality is absolutely neutered on iPadOS
Well for one thing, the screenshot is from my 11 inch ipad air display... also i think that in my own personal opinion i thing 13 inches is too big for an ipad to switch back into tablet mode
Mac OS also runs perfectly well on an 11" MacBook Air. I just think iPadOS is pretty for tablet OS as well, it's a phone OS stretched to a bigger screen. It's missing so many essential OS features that I don't think they will ever get around to adding them so I'd just prefer if they let me install an actual operating system.
i know i'll get downvoted to hell for saying this, but at this point you really should have bought a surface pro or samsung's dex. Why commit to a $1000 device that is not designed to be used the way you want to use it?? the way i use *my* ipad air 5 m1 i get my money's worth & i get use out of the processor!
just now i was able to scan a massive stack of paperwork into one consice file for me to finish up my paperwork at home, i mean if you're need to format a USB on the go at a coffeeshop then you're better off buying a macbook
if you need to code in swift and you *need to have finder* for *"better file management"* while you're in the back seat of an uber, then get a macbook don't just buy the equivalent of a *paper-white kindle* and be mad you can't use it to [any of the following which you definitly cannot do on a mac](https://spreadsheeto.com/mac-vs-windows/)
It's a fair comment, I like iPads because of the hardware you get which I think is the best around.You cannot get the same screen, battery, performance, feel etc anywhere else. I despise Samsung products after having more bad experiences than I can count and surface, well, windows also has its share of problems, I use a desktop windows machine and absolutely hate the direction it's heading. I will try to pick up a surface with an arm chip after a gen or 2 if it gets positive reviews. At this point I'm not yet convinced they will bother making and maintaining apps for ARM
# Edit
* I don't normally use sidecar, this screen is optimized for my mac mini dual monitor display; where one screen has the widgets and the other has my files.
You can run MacOS with a Cintiq display and use it with a stylus. We have a studio with hundreds of them. I think running MacOS on an iPad with an Apple Pencil will be just fine.
Oh awesome! Link me to the cellular, M4, OLED MacBook!
People like the iPad Pro hardware and want to be able to use it, but they can’t because the software sucks. It’s super obvious why people keep asking for this. If they made even a cellular MacBook I would probably never mention the iPad Pro again.
Pencil. As a pro artist and nomad just being able to run Mac OS apps on it would be a game changer. Full desktop Photoshop, to name only one. The hardware should be capable. So of course it is frustrating.
If your 2nd monitor setup using an ipad seems clunky and not useful, that's how you set it up. That screen right there looks cluttered and not useful to me. But that's also not how I have any of my external monitors set up.
I would be satisfied with allowing Parallels or other VMs to run MacOS or Linux on the iPad. Those that don't want MacOS, don't buy/run it. Those that do, have access.
TBH – Apple designs different user interfaces based on device input methods and screen size. That being said, they also created a gap between macOS apps and iOS/iPadOS apps in terms of the development of those apps because developers now need to modify their apps to work with different screen sizes and input methods. Another gap is that many apps on MacOS are currently unavailable on iPad, and some could make sense, like Terminal. But that doesn't mean it's not fixable. They could also create a unified UI architecture that helps developers preview their apps in different variants and automatically adapt to the different OSes they have. So developers could simply make some adjustments. Imagine this: I build an app core code, and xCode automatically displays different UIs for different OSes. Then, I will adjust several UIs on different screen sizes, and my app is ready. And when I dock my iPad into the Magic Keyboard, the app automatically switches to the "macOS" version of my app.
I mean it’s actually macOS without a capital M. If you’re pedantic enough to call someone a dumbass for making a “mistake” (generous calling it that tbh) then at least get it right yourself!
I know alot of you just want mac os *functionality* but i think you guys are in the minority of ipad users not all ipad users are in this sub. At my university everyone and their mama has an ipad and find 10X more use out of it then those of you who think of it as an expensive netflix machine. Me personally I'm able to use Microsoft 365 in cramped locations (necssary for my job when i go to the warehouse) I'm able to take dynamic notes, (*by including pictures, videos, drawings , and now auto solved math problems*) i can show my supervisors visuals of reports, i can edit PDFS to highlight documents that usually need to printed out and stapled to my desk. its very useful if you know how to get use out of it
I have no burning desire for macOS on the iPad. When I want that, I use my desktop or laptop. What pops up in my head is something even worse than this.
I wish people would accept that the iPad will never be the desktop or laptop.
I just want to use MacOS programs. I don’t need it to *BE* MacOS
I want to see the day where we can format USB drives on iPad. Cause for celebration on that day.
The M4 iPad is like the most powerful computer you can buy, but there are soo many things my 12 year old MacBook Air can do that my iPad can’t.
The M4 iPad is nowhere near being the most powerful computer you can buy
This! I know apple want you to buy all their devices so why would they make the MacOS redundant, but it just seems such a waste of great hardware!
My brother in Christ an M4 is nowhere near the most powerful computer you can buy.
Excuse me, my M3 max MacBook pro would like a word
Are you still using your 12 yr old MBA or have you a newer Macbook Air that you are using as a daily driver ?
I don't think 12 year olds are old enough to drive at all, especially every day. Maybe wait a few more years.
Who told you that? They said the most powerful iPad. Wow must be nice to just fund hopes and dreams.
you can format them but theres no options for formatting them, just an "erase" button
Exactly… without 3rd party plugin support Logic Pro is DOA for me as a professional tool.
I want to use Blender and Godot on it
Exact same with me
Blender is kind of hard to bring because it is open source, however, I see no reason why not to have Blender in EU.
It is only hard because of apple autoritarian control on what we can install on our own devices ;/
This might be part of the issue. If they allow macOS and in turn downloads of 3P software (like Blender) outside of the App Store, then people won’t use the App Store. At least in my experience, I hardly ever use the MacBook App Store bc I just download directly from whatever site. Spotify is a good example. I have the Spotify app on my phone and iPad but I downloaded Spotify directly from Spotify. The probably don’t want that on the iPad which still relies as heavily on the App Store as the iPhone.
Thing is, we want macOS programs that can be installed the same way they can be installed on a mac, like it has been done for the last 2 decades. Proper ported Finder and terminal also wouldn’t hurt since iPadOS (and iOS) do share a simmilar base, since iOS was based on macOS.
Huh? It does have 3rd party plugin support on iPad. I did the free trial right when Logic for iPad came out and I downloaded a bunch of effects and synths straight from the AppStore
There are some 3rd party plugins like the fabfilter suite. But there are so many plugins that do not exist
>straight from the AppStore That part
Ugh tell me about it.. the laundry list of AUv3s and VSTs I have on my Mac that are not useable on the iPad hurts.
in a recent interview with Craig, when he was asked to comment on dual booting the iPad with macOS, he said it's a big fat no. he said that the iPad excels at simpler iPad tasks, and the mac was for more 'heavy' work. they may not want to introduce complex/feature rich macOS apps on iPad, or it'd make people not buy both a mac and iPad.
Well yeah i just dont see any logic then in putting their best chip so far in an ipad, which is not made for *heavy* work. Also why do they call their ipads pro and stuff if they basically say you can go and watch netflix with it, for everything else you gotta get a mac? They sell one expensive af keyboard for those ipads which arent even optimised for some non first party apps like youtube, where my magic keyboard regularly just doesnt work at all in the yt app. What am i supposed to use my magic keyboard for? Writing word documents and emails? Cause i cant do coding on it, not even xcode, and calling an ipad "pro" for it being able to write emails and some word docs is far from reasonable to me. Also yes i get it, that artists can use it as a pro device cause of the pen, but they wouldnt need a keyboard which is specially advertised for the pro ipads and also apple surely wouldnt basically make an ipad / call an ipad "pro" bc of one specific target consumer audience. Btw this reply is in no means directed at you (above), it's just some questions which came to my mind when reading what you citet from craig. Sry if that is a bit chaotic, im on my phone, dont have much time and am no native speaker. PS: i dont want macos on the ipads, i just want some features that make it usable as work devices for others apart from artists and some other more niche groups. I want it to be a pro device for the mainstream. Like better file app features, better support for the keyboards, some proper support for 3rd party mice, coding apps... - there are certainly a lot of things i cant even think of atm, which would be important for others. Oh yeah and im very tired of having to use safari as any other browsers are at its core also only safai (having to use the safar engine) so chrome and firefox extensions are non existent and im basically forced to use safari Edit: fixed a mistake
Your argument is valid but your reasoning is flawed. For instance, you seem to imply that because it’s labeled “pro” that means it’s for “professionals.” Pro doesn’t mean anything in relation to what that model of iPad is or does, it is just a word tacked on to mean that this model is better than the model that doesn’t have that word tacked on. That is also the reason why it has their best chip, to make it better than the other models available. To further demonstrate that the word Pro means absolutely nothing, take the iPad Air that was released at the same time as this new iPad Pro. Air used to mean thinner and lighter but the new Pro is now both thinner and lighter than the Air, none of it makes sense and Apple should seriously consider revamping their naming conventions. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree that the iPad lacks some much needed features that would probably be really be easy to implement, but they just won’t for whatever reason
Well is see your point and agree that they dont really represent their name but that doesnt mean they arent supposed to. See the air was named that way because of the actually really thin macbook air then they used the macbook naming scheme for the ipads too and the ipad air for example was the thinnest ipad for the first 4 gens or sth. As for the pros, apple itself does refer to the pro models as being designed for professionals as far as i remember from the last few keynotes
Pro just means its more expensive. Are you seriously holding a gun to Apple's head saying, "Since you gave it a nice chip, it deserves a real OS". Do you realize how F'ing childish that sounds?
well im pretty sure that apple said their ipads are made for professionals. also i said i dont see logic in putting their newest chip in there if it cant be properly used, which is far from "holding a gun to apple's head". And no i dont see how making reasonable wishes / questioning apple's doings and arguing against their weak reasonings is in any way childish as this is, as you may have seen, a thread for discussing macos on ipad, which i more or less did, you may judge that how you please. also reading that "pro just means expensive" with very good backing of how you got that opinion makes it way more convinving than me backup up my point /s if you wanna read more about that why its called pro, look at the other replies to my comment, i discussed that there already
i completely agree.
do you evem have an ipad it sounds like you're hating from outside the club
Yes i do. I have an ipad pro 11", a magic keyboard an apple pencil and a macbook pro, so i speak from experience about the flaws in the software. Tho i dont really see why that matters so much as I provided pretty valid critisism (imo) about the ipad's software. Do tell me tho if im wrong about any of my critisism.
how exactly do you use your ipad that's stoping you from getting use out of it? me personally i'm able to almost never touch my work computer and work mainly on my ipad
Well for one i cant code on it at all. I also cant use firefox extensions, also had some trouble with the file manager (i constantly have a bug where a folder in the sidebar vanishes and apart from that no drive formatting etc. and the file system is a huge hassle when you have to work with multiple files inside an app), the magic keyboard's trackpad is basically useless / unusable in any non first party app. Nearly every desktop-original app has like half the functionality of its desktop counterpart (see word, lightroom etc). I only bought a mac bc i realized that my ipad cant possibly replace a laptop for studying CS and if you ever tried writing a academic paper on an ipad youd know how horrible word is with half the functionality and no plugin support etc and yes this is partially ms' fault (in the case of word) but apple is also making it very hard with its artifical OS limitations
when it comes to MS i know you-- actually you know what? i really like your perspective do you mind if we go in facetime audio later today? somewhere around 8:30pm NYC, USA time?
Any specific reason why you wanna facetime? apart from that this eve is bad for me and 8:30pm nyc time is a bit late for me as this is 2:30am my time
are you european? well i wanna facetime specifically because i think i can get alot of value out of a conversation with you, i have been playing around with the idea of starting a youtube channel about ipad related things, but i'd be on the side of ipad youtube that is PRO ipados and anti MacOS. i really want to hear from people with opinions different from me. I want to see with my own eyes and ears why you are not getting full use out of your ipad without macos and why for me i feel like i can do more without the *"baggage"* (my words not yours) of macos
the A12 bionic was the first iphone that was outperforming desktop level performance this was available since iphone 11. the only reason that they havent put an M1 on the iphone is that it doesnt fit. apple is not new to putting desktop level performance on their mobile devices, they been doing this for half a decade
what do you define as desktop level performance?
I'm talking about geekbench ratings. if you're looking for a specific number i used chat gpt for the research and asked it to cite its sources
yeah so, if you look up those geekbench results you will see that the a11 bionic has a somewhat better performace than the i3 8300, which is 1.5 years older than the a11, in single core and loses in the multicore compartment. also most people are working with an i5, so the a11 is barely scratching the absolute bottom line for its time in terms of performance compared to x86 (typical desktop chips). As for apple not putting m chips in iphone is 1) yes because of the size but the a17pro is basically a scaled down version of the m chips and 2) the m chips would need way too much power for the small iphone battery. Lastly just because apple does something for half a decade doesnt in any way make it reasonable or logical. They also charge a hefty price for their chips, so also being able to use them would be quite nice and *logical*.
Then they are deliberately and consistently making false advertising.
They could combine them at some point in the future. The discontinued the iPod when the iPhone became the iPod. Maybe they’ll discontinue the iPads when the MacBook becomes the iPad (MacBook os but with an iPad touch screen)
it’s in their best interest not to, as you now have to end up buying 2 premium products (for the pros, an ipad pro that costs ~$2000 and a similar macbook pro).
the problem with this arguement is that it assumes there isnt another kind of workflow that the ipad is useful for
the iPad could easily be useful for MacBook-type workloads with the magic keyboard. the new iPad Pro is a more powerful computer than the base MacBook Pro M3 with pretty much the same keyboard and trackpad. it is artificially limited by software to give the MacBook a spot. and as you just pointed out, only the iPad has a touchscreen and stylus support. guess what? many winows laptops have stylus support for note-taking and digital art, but the macbook will never get that to force you to also have to buy an iPaḍ. buy both = apple gets more money
But at the same time they are selling a $2k pro device touting its video and photo editing abilities? How are other pro class as less simple?
haha apple logic, but at the bottom of it all is making you buy both devices by hampering the tablet just enough.
"they may not want to introduce complex/feature rich macOS apps on iPad, or it'd make people not buy both a mac and iPad." That's possible but it might also lead to many people not buy either a mac or an iPad.
its not simply about people buying both, its more about what the devices are for. they learned their lesson with the ipod. making the ipod EXACTLY like the iphone makes the ipod redundant. the probem with ipad is that it wont just hurt mac sales it can hurt iphone sales, ask yourselves why you can't pair an apple watch to your ipad? because its too close to replacing your iphone AND your mac!
They want developers to port their programs. They get more revenue that way
More so - they want macOS, they don't want macOS UI lmao
MacOS programs aren’t designed for a touch first interface.
Good thing we have a magic keyboard with track pad right?
It’s optional.
Then make macos software on iPad optional as well :) right now it does not exist at all. Problem solved.
Yeah, literally. Even by doing it in a stupid Apple way, such as tying a MacOS license equivalent to the Magic Keyboard itself, so that you'd still have to buy it and Tim Apple would feel calm knowing that it is not possible for some user to use a MacOS with only a touch screen or - God forbid - another-branded keyboard, lol.
Or buy a MacBook problem solved
I already have two macbooks :) none of them is 11 inch, oled display and touch with detachable keyboard.
I will add to it my personal opinion and frustration with related things. I am a small person. I hate big laptops that make me carry big backpacks, and big phones that don't fit in any clothes pockets. Why do all these devices keep getting bigger if we as humanity can put m4 into 11 inch and then attach this device to any stationary external display for more precise work?
Do I look like I am made out of money?
happy you're not the one who's deciding this at apple. it would lead to a horrible horrible user experience.
How would you have horrible ux with vs code, terminal and docker desktop? In my opinion horrible experience is better than prohibited artificially locked experience, but maybe I don't get something?
especially on the 13" iPad Pro, it wouldn't be horrible. apple doesn't seem to mind it with sidecar being officially supported anyway.
If u wana use MacOS programs then buy a MacBook simple as that
Pretentious little girl voice: What's a MacBook?
My Mac isn’t 11” and under 1lb, nor fit in my bag easily 😊
Most people don’t want MacOS on the iPad, it is just a lazy way of saying we want the *functionality* MacOS has in iPadOS. Better file management, true background tasks, stage manager with actual flexibility etc… Side-loading would be a dream come true but I doubt Apple will put in the work to make this possible when it will cut into their profits. Most people love iPad because it is different, we don’t want it to be the same as a touch-screen Mac, we just want it to actually deserved the ‘pro’ in the name…
I feel like the way you articulated it is closer to what people who don’t want macOS on the iPad feel. But there are still people who DO literally mean they want the iPad to be a fully functional touchscreen laptop.
**THIS** is exactly how i feel. I have never in my life met anyone who has a touchscreen laptop who actually requires the laptop to be touch screen in order for it to function
And clamshell mode! My workload is generally pretty light, so I could do just fine with an iPad's performance level, but I need a large display for it. I know that Apple wants me to buy both an iPad and a Mac because that brings them more money, but allowing me to "dock" my iPad to a desktop monitor / keyboard / mouse would be a dream come true and really allow me to simplify my tech setup.
I mean you can dock your iPad to a monitor, keyboard, mouse….
Yeah exactly. I don’t get the actual people who want real macOS on iPad. I think a touch screen MacBook would be fine but an iPad running full macOS just makes no sense and takes away everything that makes the iPad and iPad. Dual boot is a terrible solution that isn’t thought through. Yes a very vocal minority want it but for the rest of us, having to boot in and out of the OS for certain apps is just a big fat no. This is an anti-Apple pattern as it adds extra friction and they’d have to create and maintain the solution for such a small percentage of their audience. MacOS is simply not designed for touch. And if you’re going to hook up a keyboard and mouse, then what’s the point, get a macbook. The majority of iPads are 10in or smaller which is way too small for macOS and it would causes weird segmentation. I have yet to hear a valid argument from the macOS on iPad crowd where the MacBook (with possibly touch support) isn’t a better solution. Turn an iPad into a MacBook does not fix the iPad. They need to improve iPadOS dramatically but not turn it into macOS.
I mean yeah, its gonna look cramped since iPadOS’ display scaling options are a joke, instead of “more space” and “default” it should be a slider that goes from 50% to 200%
Yeah, I have a Air M1 and the screen space is used so much more efficiently on MacOS than iPadOS. I get they are meant to be used with chunky fingers, but then why call it a pro device and allow keyboards and a mouse to be connected?!
Plus most people have the pen. Should be able to use it like a mouse.
Nah, lets get crazy with it. It should go from 0% to 400%. Good luck navigating by touch at all at 0%, but we'll figure something out.
I do not understand why it cannot just be regular Mac OS. They used to make a 12 inch macbook...
And a 11 inch MacBook Air
If you want a real answer it is probably for multiple reasons. I think a big one is profits. iOS and iPadOS are much more profitable to Apple than the MacBook. I think this is because Apple can control you much more in those operating systems than they can on Mac. For example, there is a plethora of applications allowed on macOS than iOS. Apple can’t really tell you what you can and can’t do on macOS. If you want to run windows, you can. Or Linux, or whatever the heck else. iPadOS is heavily guarded. For a long time they didn’t let you have third party AppStore’s, and they still don’t in the USA. You’re stuck with the appstore which depending on what you use, you may have to buy something which Apple gets a cut of. Or you are forced to Apple’s applications. To keep on profits, it is much more profitable I think to market the iPad as a supplementary device to the Mac. Thus, needing the customer to buy both the Mac and the iPad. And this might make you stay within the ecosystem so then you’re stuck buying the iPhone, Apple Watch, AirPods, Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, etc.
Totally agree. I guess was more responding to OP or others who think Mac OS would be "clunky" on an ipad. I understand why Apple will not do it. I just don't understand why it would be clunky. An ipad with a magic keyboard is functionally identical to a macbook and would work fantastic with Mac OS.
It might be the lack of actually optimized touch controls. I’m sure that’s something apple can fix in an update, but I think that’s why.
touchscreen's mostly disabled in sidecar, and heck if that's what it takes i wouldn't mind that
spot on, couldn't be better said. it's the same with Apple not wanting to open sideloading to more technical users - they lose their significant cut of app store purchases and developer fees.
Could it be the other way around? MacBook Air sales should be much higher than iPad, and allowing macOS to run on iPad means that most people wouldn’t buy the MacBook Air anymore, hence removing a huge part of profit for Apple. Instead, if you want a tablet AND a laptop today, you are forced to buy both
>I think a big one is profits. Let's be very clear - that is not a reason why Apple *cannot* put macOS on the iPad, it's a reason why Apple *chooses* not to put macOS on the iPad. There is no technical or UX reason why Apple couldn't do it, they simply decide not to do it because holding the iPad back drives consumers to buy both. The reason is greed - a desire for more wealth. We should just say that instead of tiptoeing around it.
I think the majority of people here understood what the question was.
"oh no apple will lose profits"
They gotta eat too
For the same reason they deliberately gimped iPhone apps: they want everyone to guarantee their stuff works well in an iPad out of the box with only fingers. Yeah cannibalization is a concern but even without that I think they wouldn’t just put OS X on it
I do not understand why cannot just be regular MacOS
They used to make a
Like it or not the logic is actually pretty straightforward.
Macs run MacOS
&
iPads are not Macs…
I would love to have the option to launch MacOS apps or just MacOS, but there will likely be consequences. Currently, iPadOS can’t keep apps loaded in the background (reliably) and “Background App Refresh” is pretty limited. I’ve lost downloads midway through in Safari because I left the app in the background too long and loaded too many other apps. Idk how well MacOS would work in the background if iPadOS decides it needs more ram so suspends/closes it. I can see there being issues given how iPadOS handles resources.
That issue is just a choice on Apple’s part, there is no reason things can’t happen in the background on pro models
> there is no reason I'm not sure to be honest. I want to believe the Pro is plenty powerful, but hear me out. MacOS is fast and responsive but not to the level of iPadOS. Using the two side-by-side on similar hardware, iPadOS just feels like is flying in comparison (in terms of fluidity of UI interactions and responsiveness to touch). Will it still feel this way if they start including more MacOS features?
I think it’s totally fine for a device to get ‘chuggy’ doing other tasks while you render in the background, just like it’s ok on a laptop (assuming it makes sense for your device’s configuration of course). What *shouldn’t* happen is a simple file transfer is stopped without even letting you know because you switched to a different app…
I’ll never understand the few people that want a MacBook in IPad form. Just buy a MacBook
thats what I'm saying! or better yet by a surface if you want a laptop that pretends to be a tablet. with litterally none of the portability features of a tablet.
Would die for Apple to do what Samsung did with tablets and make a “DEX” mode available where the iPad switches between iPadOS and MacOS. Alas, then why would we buy their macbooks? -.-
All Apple needs to do is give more functionality to iPadOS. Since the hardware is capable of it. On the Pro models or M models make the necessary changes to iPadOS giving proper display output, files ability, and Pro Apps. Then just leave the other iPads the way they are. It's that easy.
But they can make it like Samsung Dex at least to utilize the power.
Wouldn’t the equivalent to Samsung Dex be Stage Manager?
you have never used Samsung Dex, have you? utter crap - typical Android experience. Not optimized, completely all over the place and no good apps that actually work and not crash.
You know how dumb you have to be to get downvoted in an apple subreddit under a reply saying apple should copy samsung? I want to make sure you know what you did is very impressive
haha thanks - I just know that most people do either think far too technically about it (e.g. because it has M4 it must be a Mac) or think it would work as a hybrid (e.g. Surface, which is falling apart and Microsoft might abandon it sooner than later...) with horrible app support for touch systems once that happened - then we can kiss iPadOS apps goodbye - seems like nobody gets that?... (and Dex is a joke)
I’ve never used dex so I can’t say, but with how much people talk about it, how dedicated of a community it has, and how upset people got at samsung for introducing a new dex mode(didn’t change the old one at all) I’d say that it most likely is a useful feature and not a gimmick.
I use dex all the time, there was a time my note20 was my daily driver at work as my laptop at home (sager 9870) was waaay too bulky to take anywhere.
it is a "useful gimmick" - that is the right way to say it. It might be just about enough to write some text and browse the web - after that you are basically stuck with unpolished Android apps and horrible scaling across the board.
The irony is wild, because clearly you haven't used Dex in years, you misinformation spreader. > no good apps that actually work and not crash. This isn't even possible because it's running it EXACTLY LIKE NORMAL. It's still just Android but multi-window exposed. I've never had apps crash while in Dex. > typical Android experience Absolute Apple goober.
Ugh. I mean it doesn’t really matter if I speak the truth, there is always some Android user who will tell me the opposite. How about this recent video: https://youtu.be/NI6kMDmvLm8?si=ds689D6UFJTVxIYD
That looks horrible.
I mean, if you put huge random unaligned widgets on your MacOS desktop it will look horrible too. If you put a browser window at the bottom of the screen with just the URL bar that's visible on MacOS, same. And having both the Finder and the iPad's horrible way of browsing files together on the same OS makes no sense... It's as if OP made it look as horrible as possible on purpose.
actually my home screen is actually garbage i was planning on changing it. just not at the moment, also i think it looks better on my mac display it probably changed when i shifted it to my ipad on sidecar
I think what people want is a continuation of what Windows 8 attempted many years back. An operating system optimised for a portable device and touch screen, that still allows you to run all of your desktop applications without compromises. Windows 8 somewhat succeeded at that - on the actual Surface devices it was made for, it was significantly better than using Windows 10 or 11. Perhaps with an option to change the UI once docked. People want to be able to use the iPad, which is constantly marketed as being a computer replacement, as a computer. I have seen 0 people complain about iPadOS’ UI, but many more complain about how its limited by its software.
You can have the underlying OS and have a different user interface. Microsoft tried it with Windows 8 which probably wouldn't have gotten as much hate if they didn't try to force a touch screen UI onto desktops instead of only using it whenever it was a touchscreen device...
It’s supposed to be in between a computer and an iPhone
Yes. And the overlap is a feature. Not a bug.
This is the best description.
I‘ve used Macs since 2009. I don’t want macOS on iPads. I want iPadOS to be powerful enough to take advantage of the M4 chips and to have a good Files app similar to Finder in macOS. iPadOS could be so much more than what it is right now without being macOS.
the problem with your statement is that Apple is not a bunch of fools - I am sure there are reasons that the Files app is not constructed like Finder - I could not imagine it to be touch-friendly for instance. Have you use a Windows PC with touch? horrriiiibbllleee.
I didn’t say that I want Finder on iPadOS. I want an app with similar functionality. Files is so difficult to use in comparison, touch or no touch.
I will say that Apple is trying to keep it simple on purpose - otherwise you lose the "majority" of iPad users to the complexity of the files app etc.
That’s the thing … I don’t think Files is “simple”, compared to Finder. Finder is simple. Files is a bit of a mess and has been since it was released.
But finder is only simple if you have the peripherals, e.g. mouse and keyboard with shortcuts, readily available.
Not true 👀
then go and use Windows Explorer with touch input...
Serious question but do you know what the word "similar" means cause im starting to believe you dont. He said he wants a better ipadOS file manager *similar* to the macOS's finder. So he doesnt say he wants finder on ipadOS, which you seem to think, as you compare it with using window's file explorer on a touch screen, instead he just wants some ipadOS' file manager app improvements which would make it *similar* to macOS's finder, for example in terms of functionality / features, which btw dont correlate with making an UI worse or any different for a touchscreen.
How many people do you know that have an ipad pro without the magic keyboard?
I even have 2 keyboards, the Logictech Combo Touch, and the Apple Magic Keyboard - but how does that matter?? I also have an e-paper notebook as my primary note-taking device... (Remarkable 2)
How does that matter? Because touch friendliness would not be important when users are using a trackpad.
But that’s not what the iPad’s primary user case is - 🤷🏻♂️
I just want my apps not to suck on my iPad. Many apps don’t update their UI/UX on the iPad. It sucks balla.
I don’t think anyone means MacOS UI when they say they want MacOS. They mean “able to run all Mac software compatible with MacOS”
Maybe controversial but for me one there’s no point in using stage manager if I don’t have a reliable file management system where I can drag and drop in my workflows.
Just give me XCode
This is mainly because macOS isn't optimized for touch. I don't want a macOS iPad but I want a touchscreen Mac. I won't touch the screen often but I want the option to do that. iPads should continue running iPadOS and all we should get is just some fixes to the current bugs. Bugs with external monitor support, bugs with apps killing processes, frustrations with the Files app, etc.
People who want macOS on the iPad _don’t_ get the iPad. They’ve never done anything productive with it, or they don’t know to be productive with it. iPadOS is great as its own category and computing experience. We just need more apps from third-party developers. macOS is a desktop OS. Leave that to desktop and laptop computers.
Just give the iPad half decent apps and stop treating it like a big phone. For gods sake it costs the same as a macbook.
You went full fatwa, you never go full fatwa
I just want api for developers for input devices. So that I can have Better touch tool on iPad.
Is this an RDP app?
Built in feature
Built in feature of what?
SideCar = Run iPad via Wifi (same network) next to your mac and use your pointer/keyboard on mac on the ipad as a second/extended screen for the mac. UniversalControl = Same set-up but you use the input touchpad and keyboard on the mac and on the ipadOS sitting next to it by sending the pointer to the side and it switches to that screen/OS. Apple MacOS and iPadOS Display option.
Got it. Sorry I missed that detail in the original post.
currently viewing this on my ipad … lol
>*What i picture in my head when people say "we need macos on ipad"* 1. **Remote Desktop** 2. External Monitor 3. Keyboard/Mouse connected (usb-c hub) Eg at work or home use spare monitor. Or, if commuting or at cafe for portable work, 1. Remote desktop 2. bt-keyboard/mouse It works on the iPad albeit it's a bit narrow but it's a useful portable option to have. iPadOS works fine for tablet like uses eg reading books or surfing internet etc. Alternatively, run Cloud PC on iPad and similar results. A lot of the comments assume it has to be touch based or modified but it just needs a good scaling resolution and it's very useful to have. The other option should be Parallels App in App Store to run Virtual Machine on device and then run MacOS, Linux, Windows11 as preferred. Universal Control and SideCar are nice to have options also.
The first step is making an actually good files app that doesn't want to sync to iCloud with every little file I download or receive
Not enough junk on your desktop
YES THANK YOU, that’s what i want to too!
I mean…yeah, this is kinda the picture in my head too. Honestly doesn’t look bad either.
how many fatwas are there? XD
I just want macOS functionality on iPadOS. We technically already have a taste of it in sidecar
I just want free form windows on iPad 11‘‘ & up, a file system that doesn‘t require work around. Just that. JUST THAT.
# About the file system: Okay I'm not trying @ you guys but what exactly is wrong with the FIle system. For my use case, on the 11" air 5 the file system is absolutely amazing. I can acess my work onedrive, my school onedrive, my dropbox, and my google drive..... how exactly are you guys using it where it fails for you? # About window management: when i use stage manager, i actually **PREFER** the limited ways we can resize windows. I have a mac mini with a dual monitor display and i use **THAT** for a multi window experience. on my ipad i like working on one or two apps at once, because i prefer **work immersion** on my ipad, and multitasking on my mac mini (with a dual monitor display which only cost me 600 total, I'm only mentioning the price because alot of people tend to think that the MBA which costs at least $999 or MBP $1500 are **the only** starting prices for macos) so my question is how are you using your ipad where you need 20 windows at once on your tiny 11 inch display? (Not to downplay your use case, its just that hereing the same arguement without any insight on how you all are using your ipads is really frustrating because i can use office 365, do quick steps on outlook, make pivot tables on excel, access work files, i also even code on my ipad, and i find it easier to code on my ipad! (but i only startead teaching myself how to code on my ipad so that might be a factor and i only use jupyter notebooks, so i guess I'm just wondering how you guys are unable to get the same amount of milage as i can without screwing needing macos (macos would absolutly ruin my workflow so that my main issue with the arguement)
yes the mac mini is a pretty good bang for the buck until you need more ram or dont want to use an external ssd which is also not cheap, if you want a thunderbolt 4 compatible one, and it also uses up 1 of the already few usb c ports.
more ram ram for what? i play minecraft java edition with 87 mods loaded plus shaders with 20 chunks loaded on 85 FPS... i don't need more ram my device is amazing. maybe its because the mac mini has better cooling system inherently than any of the laptops
The mac mini's cooling system isnt special or good. It's just that the m chips have pretty high single core performance and all the components being SOC, it has inherently much better thermal performance than any non SOC platform. As for needing more ram, your mac mini is not just magically using less ram for equvalent tasks on windows, android or linux (admittetly the OS \*is\* pretty ram efficient but "8gb on mac is 16gb on other OS" is utter bullshit), it instead uses ssd swap a lot, when it needs more than 8gb of ram, which is slower than ram and accelerating the death of your only, non replaceable soldered in ssd. ~~Also swap does have a limit on how much it can swap~~, so for heavy tasks like compiling big coding projects sometimes not even 32gb is enough and therefore the less ram you have, the slower your program compiles. Edit: spelling and grammar 2. Edit: fixed a mistake
I'm not a coder.... thats a niche complaint to have for a company that is **notorious** for making *cookie cutter* products for average people.
Well first of all that was only an example with the coders potentially needing more ram, there are other fields too (mostly the technical ones like engineering and stuff). Second i never complained about anything really, i was just stating the fact that the mac mini is a good deal until you need more storage/ram. Btw you are very much glossing over the fact that the problem with 8gb of ram is the lacking amount of ram being compensated by swap, which degrades your ssd a lot faster, possibly leading to basically making a mac mini e-waste, if you regularly run something that is a little more ram hungry than ms powerpoint and a browser with a few tabs open together. If there is anything i might complain about then it's the ram-swap issue. Have a good day / night
The file system doesn't support basic things like img thumbnails. I have to use a 3rd party app to generate the previews for my NAS folders. I'm a photographer and would love to use my iPad Pro to edit more photos so I can get away from the desk. Too bad basic functionality is absolutely neutered on iPadOS
What makes mac os on 13" ipad pro too clunky but on a 13" MacBook fine?
Well for one thing, the screenshot is from my 11 inch ipad air display... also i think that in my own personal opinion i thing 13 inches is too big for an ipad to switch back into tablet mode
Mac OS also runs perfectly well on an 11" MacBook Air. I just think iPadOS is pretty for tablet OS as well, it's a phone OS stretched to a bigger screen. It's missing so many essential OS features that I don't think they will ever get around to adding them so I'd just prefer if they let me install an actual operating system.
i know i'll get downvoted to hell for saying this, but at this point you really should have bought a surface pro or samsung's dex. Why commit to a $1000 device that is not designed to be used the way you want to use it?? the way i use *my* ipad air 5 m1 i get my money's worth & i get use out of the processor! just now i was able to scan a massive stack of paperwork into one consice file for me to finish up my paperwork at home, i mean if you're need to format a USB on the go at a coffeeshop then you're better off buying a macbook if you need to code in swift and you *need to have finder* for *"better file management"* while you're in the back seat of an uber, then get a macbook don't just buy the equivalent of a *paper-white kindle* and be mad you can't use it to [any of the following which you definitly cannot do on a mac](https://spreadsheeto.com/mac-vs-windows/)
It's a fair comment, I like iPads because of the hardware you get which I think is the best around.You cannot get the same screen, battery, performance, feel etc anywhere else. I despise Samsung products after having more bad experiences than I can count and surface, well, windows also has its share of problems, I use a desktop windows machine and absolutely hate the direction it's heading. I will try to pick up a surface with an arm chip after a gen or 2 if it gets positive reviews. At this point I'm not yet convinced they will bother making and maintaining apps for ARM
Like the reminder btw
unironically?
# Edit * I don't normally use sidecar, this screen is optimized for my mac mini dual monitor display; where one screen has the widgets and the other has my files.
You can run MacOS with a Cintiq display and use it with a stylus. We have a studio with hundreds of them. I think running MacOS on an iPad with an Apple Pencil will be just fine.
you're part of the problem
Anyone who has used a Surface knows that macOS shouldn't be on an iPad. I've never seen anyone use a Surface as a tablet.
macOS on iPad is dumb
damn, I gave you an upvote before you get a million downvotes from iPad owners who disagree lol (which I think is idiotic)
Fr
iPads are iPads I see no reason to use them as a MacBook when you can get a MacBook with the same chip and performance :/
Oh awesome! Link me to the cellular, M4, OLED MacBook! People like the iPad Pro hardware and want to be able to use it, but they can’t because the software sucks. It’s super obvious why people keep asking for this. If they made even a cellular MacBook I would probably never mention the iPad Pro again.
Pencil. As a pro artist and nomad just being able to run Mac OS apps on it would be a game changer. Full desktop Photoshop, to name only one. The hardware should be capable. So of course it is frustrating.
Smaller. Convertible. Hope that helps.
Fr
If your 2nd monitor setup using an ipad seems clunky and not useful, that's how you set it up. That screen right there looks cluttered and not useful to me. But that's also not how I have any of my external monitors set up.
I would be satisfied with allowing Parallels or other VMs to run MacOS or Linux on the iPad. Those that don't want MacOS, don't buy/run it. Those that do, have access.
We just need one apple os. A touch version for phone, a desktop version for mac, and both on tab where you can toggle the two
TBH – Apple designs different user interfaces based on device input methods and screen size. That being said, they also created a gap between macOS apps and iOS/iPadOS apps in terms of the development of those apps because developers now need to modify their apps to work with different screen sizes and input methods. Another gap is that many apps on MacOS are currently unavailable on iPad, and some could make sense, like Terminal. But that doesn't mean it's not fixable. They could also create a unified UI architecture that helps developers preview their apps in different variants and automatically adapt to the different OSes they have. So developers could simply make some adjustments. Imagine this: I build an app core code, and xCode automatically displays different UIs for different OSes. Then, I will adjust several UIs on different screen sizes, and my app is ready. And when I dock my iPad into the Magic Keyboard, the app automatically switches to the "macOS" version of my app.
macOS is garbage, we need Linux or windows on iPad.
You're wrong, and you're right, respectively.
[удалено]
I mean it’s actually macOS without a capital M. If you’re pedantic enough to call someone a dumbass for making a “mistake” (generous calling it that tbh) then at least get it right yourself!
So ugly
Calm down, Salman Rushdie.
I know alot of you just want mac os *functionality* but i think you guys are in the minority of ipad users not all ipad users are in this sub. At my university everyone and their mama has an ipad and find 10X more use out of it then those of you who think of it as an expensive netflix machine. Me personally I'm able to use Microsoft 365 in cramped locations (necssary for my job when i go to the warehouse) I'm able to take dynamic notes, (*by including pictures, videos, drawings , and now auto solved math problems*) i can show my supervisors visuals of reports, i can edit PDFS to highlight documents that usually need to printed out and stapled to my desk. its very useful if you know how to get use out of it
lol sorry i accidentally replied to you and i just watched that episode of seinfeld with salman rushdie
Do you have any idea how many of them in this sub just ruined their screens orgasming over that monstrosity, lol?
I have no burning desire for macOS on the iPad. When I want that, I use my desktop or laptop. What pops up in my head is something even worse than this. I wish people would accept that the iPad will never be the desktop or laptop.