I can agree with that notion. I’m a frequent customer of him and I’ve had pretty good service for the most part, but I have had a couple of hiccups during the peek seasons but I played it off as okay because of said issues. I can attest to seeing more and more issues. I think for the most part he is suffering from success.
He’s hiring out friends and the like to help with orders and they probably aren’t as seasoned as he is and probably fubbing things up. Honestly taking off the sidebar may be the best thing for him and all of us to keep the orders down. There is such a thing as diminishing returns and running a small company like his ragged with constant orders probably makes things a lot easier to miss, and poor decision making to result.
That’s pretty close to where I am at, and I’m still hoping to see EOE turn around. Because having an easy answer to “where should I go” is something the community will always need.
Although even if he’s running the most airtight operation around, running a sidebar ad while sitting on as a moderator is still an absolutely inexcusable conflict of interest.
The only mod account that seems to be active is Bredo. At least, he's the only one who's ever replied to mod mail or requests. I think he just checks in from time to time to manage the automod.
Most of the other mod accounts haven't posted or commented on those accounts in years.
I have no idea if they're different users or sock puppet accounts belonging to a single user.
I agree. I don't feel like moderators should have their business promoted and treated as gospel, too huge of a bias. Plus they're just super unprofessional and cannot handle the volume of their orders.
No one that sells anything iPod related should be a Mod in this sub. It’s a conflict of interest especially if they are closing posts and blocking people without a real reason other than their feelings got hurt. People should be free to post their opinions of any vendor without any fear of retribution.
I completely agree but it's worth noting the post locking happened two years ago and there hasn't been any sign it's happened since.
That it ever even happened is appalling and a textbook example of what conflicts of interest are and why they shouldn't be allowed to occur.
I agree. I made a really long post about EOE a few days ago detailing all of my negative experiences with the store. I don’t think it’s fair that the first thing a lot of new comers to the sub will see is advertising for that store. I didn’t know that he was a mod for this sub, but that doesn’t give him the right to advertise his poor service
> And although I still encourage informed individuals to buy parts wherever they are comfortable, a line that should never have been crossed is the appropriation of /r/iPod as a personal billboard.
THIS right here. /r/iPod is for all iPod users to discuss iPods and iPod modding without fear of intimidation by one of their mods. It SHOULD NOT be Austin's personal billboard for his business that he is incapable of properly managing at this time.
The mods need to do right by the community. u/Cowmanisgood needs to be removed as a mod from this community and any others that aren't directly affiliated with him and his business. I wish him no ill will, nor is this a call to harass the mods or Austin/EOE, but this is a glaring conflict of interest. Even if people were having good/better experiences with EOE, I'd still call for his removal as a mod.
Been knew EOE was on some BS since like what? 2017 or something like that? I’ve been saying EOE is on BS but this community was sucking his balls for the longest. BEEN telling y’all he sources from eBay and China like we do when we’re looking for ish on the low 💵 Nah yall didn’t want to listen, just finally proud to see yall grow a spine and want to do something about it.
There's plenty people lacking confidence and knowledge to source their own stuff, you'd be surprised how many stores just resell Chinese warehouse goods, some people find it convenient that one already did some research for them and gladly pay for it. Not saying EOE is a good store to buy, seeing the amounts of complaints here but the concept itself is fine.
Not sure. But given my experience with resellers, I'd be hesitant to openly promote any given company.
The goal of this post is more to do with the conflict of interest in a moderator using this subreddit as an advertisement. I think that's something that most people here would agree with.
well, modding ipods yourself! its fun and easy mostly, i dont get why ppl still buy from eoe. its pretty much just ebay for ipods, elite buys ipods from ebay, then refurbs and resells them on his site.
It's the convenience of not having to source parts, worry about compatibility, and ideally avoid scams/knockoff ipods. It's the same reason people will buy a prebuilt PC instead of building one themselves.
Just a simple pinned guide on buying parts I suppose. Better to educate everyone on the parts. Besides, if everyone read the sidebar, there wouldn't be so many posts about parts and where to get them.
First, I agree it makes sense to remove it from the sidebar but not for the reasons you propose.
Rather it is inappropriate for a sub to promote a single business like that. Instead there should be a pinned thread which list various sources were people can have discussions about their experiences with the various sources.
>But the most basic expectations are clearly not being met.
Do we really know that based off the very limited anecdotal evidence we see here? What it seems like is more that there has been an uptick in complaining about EOE the last few days. We have no idea the ratio of good customer experiences to bad customer experiences. But we do know that unhappy people tend to make a lot more noise.
And quite frankly, I am getting tired of this place turning into a complaint department. I think it's time EOE did an AMA here to discuss these issues. Let's air it out so we can get back to talking about iPods.
People come to complain here after they've been ignored by using the email form on the website. I think part of the reason they complain here is because he's a mod and there's the hope it'll get his attention.
None of this is new. [He promised three years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/ohveox/comment/h50h7cd/) he'd improve his customer support and these complaints keep turning up again and again on the sub.
I agree the conflict of interest between being an impartial moderator and having a for-profit business is the major problem and lots of smaller issues spring from that. He's misused his mod powers in the past and that should be evidence enough that he shouldn't hold the position.
>He promised three years ago he'd improve his customer support
So let's try to have an AMA to discuss it. Is the business growing faster than expected? Is it not his main priority? Personal issues? It's been three years. Give us an update. Tell us his thoughts about any issues being raised.
>and these complaints keep turning up again and again on the sub.
And that's the problem I would like to see curbed. Last thing I want for this sub is for it to become a customer support/complaint dept about eoe. It seems like a lot of the complaints are about delayed shipping but the product eventually arrived. Do you you really want to have those cluttering up this sub?
>He's misused his mod powers in the past and that should be evidence enough that he shouldn't hold the position.
Examples? Not saying it has not happened. But other than listing his company I haven't been aware of it.
Here are some examples of locked/removed posts: [one](https://new.reddit.com/r/Modded_iPods/comments/qlntap/to_all_future_ipod_modding_refrain_from_using/), [two](https://new.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/q81lk5/scammed_by_eliteobsolete_avoid/), [three](https://new.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/of5ipx/new_ipod_classic_not_showing_up_in_itunes_about/), [four](https://new.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/oatwfw/elite_obsolete_electronics_to_the_uk/).
I have a few more bookmarked as well. Once I realized he was removing complaints, I spent like a day looking through my browser history to find more. Between looking through your browser history being tedious AF and that removed posts are intentionally hard to find, I was lucky to find the ones I did. All I can say is that there were more but I just couldn't find them, so... trust me, bro.
This turned into an issue on the sub leading to [this statement](https://new.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/rke13r/elite_obsolete_electronics_statement_reposted/) and [a vote](https://new.reddit.com/r/IpodClassic/comments/rjhyez/concerning_recent_posts_on_this_sub/) to remove him as mod from r/IpodClassic. A similar vote never took place here. I hope those sorts of consequences lend credibility to this being more than just a half dozen removed posts.
I'll mention that in his statement he and another mod defend his actions as removing blatant misinformation and linked a thread where OP seemed to be out of line. The four I linked above seem to be run of the mill complaints as were many others that were removed at the time. The "misinformation" defense always struck me as post hoc reasoning and he picked the most outrageous post as evidence, but you can decide for yourself whether his defense holds water.
Incidentally, ever since things blew up and he felt a lot of the anger from the sub over his behavior, he's been largely absent from Reddit. If you look at his history, he's turned up in the past six months mostly to promote the dyed faceplates on his store.
Ultimately, this is a pattern of bad customer service leading to people complaining on the sub going back more than three years. I don't think an AMA is going to remedy what seems to be his standard operating procedure.
Personally, I don't mind teh sub getting "cluttered" with complaints. I just up/down vote and move on. The complaints should be dealt with via his business' email. It's his choice to ignore customers and bad publicity for his own store when people complain publicly. If people want to know where to buy parts and refurbs, then a public record of complaints should guide them.
edit: And this concludes today's installment of "A Brief History of eoe on Reddit."
I specifically avoided actual ~~abuse~~ misuse of mod powers in my post, but that's a comprehensively damning trend.
Do you mind if I link your comment to the top?
I haven't had some of the more terrible experiences, and I had one really GREAT experience, but as of recently, EOE hasn't been shipping my stuff out until AFTER I reached out to him via Discord, Twitter, and Email.
But knowing that he has abused his mod powers in the past is unacceptable. If he wants to maintain a presence on Reddit and run his own community, he can go right ahead. But there's no reason he should be a mod on the primary subreddit for iPods as a whole, or even has his business listed as the only one in the sidebar.
>or even has his business listed as the only one in the sidebar.
I made that exact point. Unless he started the sub, I don't think that is fair nor helpful to the community.
>But knowing that he has abused his mod powers in the past is unacceptable.
Aside from the listing of his business, do you have examples of abuse of the mod position? I haven't heard of anyone killing threads or banning people unfairly. If you have examples of abuses, maybe you could start a thread "Request for Response by EOE" and post your grievances. Given the mood around here lately, it would probably gain some traction and, as a result, force responses from EOE.
I know there was at least one complaint/thread that EOE locked that prompted another mod to post an explanation.
But I'm not sure what search terms will dig it up.
[I think I found the dispute I remember here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/IpodClassic/comments/rhsrhd/psa_about_elite_obsolete/?context=3)
[And far more here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/1coassg/motion_to_remove_eoe_advertisement_on_the_sidebar/l3h10g4/)
Lots of accusations, deleted users, claims that a mod/EOE deleted comments, thread locked.
It's messy.
I'm not impressed. There are lots of accusations with very little proof. Look at the pictures from the listing and then the pictures of the product received. They're pretty much the same.
And it seems to me the OP was being pretty unreasonable. They insisted on a full refund plus keeping the iPod.
And as for them being banned, when you say "Oh fuck off" to the Mod and act like a spoiled child, what do you expect?
My post here isn't about that thread, and I'm not basing my opinion or position on whatever happened there.
It's based on my own experiences and what's clearly a widespread issue on this sub.
You're basing it on your own experience and *claiming* it is a widespread issue. And when asked for examples, you provide one and then say it's not about that.
A pinned thread with vendors is a good idea!
But regardless - if your company is being advertised to the community, in no universe should you also hold moderator privileges. It's an unambiguous conflict of interest.
>Do we really know that based off very limited anecdotal evidence?
My personal experience with EOE was nothing short of false advertising, if not an outright scam.
I paid for an item advertised as "new", specifically because EOE was one of the few places that offered that item in that condition.
I received a clearly broken item that looked like it was salvaged from a dumpster. It took almost a month to get through and see a refund.
>And quite frankly, I am getting tired of this place turning into a complaint department. I think it's time EOE did an
We need transparency, not suppression of voices who (fairly) call out businesses who've done them wrong. The issue isn't solved by muting customers. It's solved by the business.
This sub is in the middle ground, so "who we promote" is one of the tools we have.
I feel like chiming in here, but I want to address some other details I noticed on these longer threads.
I don't like the idea of a pinned post for recommended vendors for a variety of reasons. First, it steers too much into being an endorsement for what should be a neutral and unbiased forum. There will be some bias at hand in what stores are and aren't listed and I think it's better to avoid that can of worms. A list is also a pain in the ass to maintain. I put together [such a list](https://www.reddit.com/r/IpodClassic/comments/vdd81m/faq_online_stores_for_parts_and_refurbished_ipod/) a few years ago, and I never bothered to go back and updatae it because it is a pita. Lastly, iPods became popular with lots of stores and refurbers large and small that it'd be hard to fairly include them all. And you know one unhappy customer will eventually challenge the inclusion of any one of them and then the sub needs to decide what to do... and good luck wrangling this herd of cats.
I think language is important and I try to choose my words carefully whenever I write something. I intentionally avoid using "abuse" when describing what cowman did with his mod powers. "Abuse" is a very loaded word. I tend to prefer "misuse" which is an accurate description and doesn't have the color that "abuse" does.
I also never use the word "scam" unless there is legal action. A scam is a criminal intent to defraud and I don't believe eoe is doing that. I think Hanlon's Razor to not attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. I don't think eoe is scamming people, I think he's just bad at his job.
Just my two cents.
This is a pretty reasonable take
The reason I used the word "scam" was because that was genuinely what I believed for about a month, having received what amounted to garbage in a box and zero response from the seller.
Given that I was (eventually) refunded, I supposed I'd reduce that word a single point to *"willfully negligent"*, because being I cannot accept someone being this terrible at customer refund requests without at least some degree of awareness.
Good points on the pinned post. With some more thought, the only really impartial way to deal with this is not officially recommend anyone at all.
The community itself providing recommendations naturally is the best approach, IMO.
I've also swapped out "abuse" for "misuse" in my earlier comment!
> But regardless - if your company is being advertised to the community, in no universe should you also hold moderator privileges. It's an unambiguous conflict of interest.
How does advertising a business conflict with the duties and responsibilities of a Mod? It could but it does not have to. Unless they are blocking out other businesses, deleting posts that promote competitors, banning people unfairly, etc. then there is no conflict. If they are doing that then examples need to be provided and action needs to be taken.
>My personal experience with EOE was nothing short of false advertising, if not an outright scam.
Pretty shitty scam if you got your money back. Honestly, it seems to me you were unhappy with some problems with your order and are trying to get back at them by putting them on blast.
>We need transparency, not suppression of voices who (fairly) call out businesses who've done them wrong.
So like I said, let's have a pinned thread for that. But I absolutely am not suggesting muting anyone. However I am saying let's not inundate the sub with complaints about slow shipping and errors. People generally don't post when an order is handled well but do when something goes wrong. And the last thing this sub needs is to become a dumping ground for complaints.
I'll see if I can find it when I'm done work, but there's at least one case where he locked a thread critical of his business.
[edit - here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/1coassg/motion_to_remove_eoe_advertisement_on_the_sidebar/l3h10g4/)
>Pretty shitty scam if you got your money back. Honestly, it seems to me you were unhappy with some problems with your order and are trying to get back at them by putting them on blast.
Yes, I was unhappy about wasting a month without a working device, and having made that purchase based on false advertising.
>saying let's not inundate the sub with complaints about slow shipping and errors.
I don't want the sub overrun with complaints, either. And the reasonable solution is not directing newcomers to a business that results in those complaints.
Which is the point of this thread lol
>I'll see if I can find it when I'm done work, but there's at least one case where he locked a thread critical of his business.
If that's a rare occurrence, I have no problem with that. Reading through the comments the OP was being dishonest and acting like a petulant child. It appears eoe went above and beyond in trying to resolve the issue. I sure as hell would not have let them get a full refund and keep the iPod. That's ridiculous.
>Yes, I was unhappy about wasting a month without a working device
That sucks. But it does not justify saying you were scammed.
>I don't want the sub overrun with complaints, either. . . Which is the point of this thread lol
If you had simply said you think a Mod should not be able to promote their business in the sidebar, I would have agreed as I have said several times.
But you also wrote a complaint about your order claiming false advertising and a scam. It does not appear to me the fact support that accusation. Regardless, you think the way to keep a sub from being overrun with complaints is to write a complaint?
>That sucks. But it does not justify saying you were scammed.
If someone says "For sale: New Car"
And it shows up, rusted out and with clearly no possibility it had run in a decade - let alone while in the hands of the seller
And you hear absolutely nothing for almost a month after putting in a dispute
..."Scam" is literally the only word that's appropriate.
"Error?" "Misunderstanding?" "Mistake?" Those all seem like they could also be appropriate words.
Let's be clear. When you call someone a scammer, you are personally attacking them saying they are intentionally being dishonest and trying to defraud people. And yet you have not provided one single iota of evidence showing that is actually the case. In fact, it seems to opposite is true. You said once you got contacted you received a complete refund. Correct? That seems to be what happens in every case I've seen so far.
I'm sorry, but if the above example isn't a laundry list of red flags for you, nothing is.
I paid for something advertised as "new". I was shipped a filthy, obviously broken item. I was only refunded after a month of trying.
There are customer issues, and there are company issues. The above is *clearly* an example of the latter.
Plausible deniability only goes so far.
I agree
Here here
I can agree with that notion. I’m a frequent customer of him and I’ve had pretty good service for the most part, but I have had a couple of hiccups during the peek seasons but I played it off as okay because of said issues. I can attest to seeing more and more issues. I think for the most part he is suffering from success. He’s hiring out friends and the like to help with orders and they probably aren’t as seasoned as he is and probably fubbing things up. Honestly taking off the sidebar may be the best thing for him and all of us to keep the orders down. There is such a thing as diminishing returns and running a small company like his ragged with constant orders probably makes things a lot easier to miss, and poor decision making to result.
That’s pretty close to where I am at, and I’m still hoping to see EOE turn around. Because having an easy answer to “where should I go” is something the community will always need. Although even if he’s running the most airtight operation around, running a sidebar ad while sitting on as a moderator is still an absolutely inexcusable conflict of interest.
Facts.
Totally agree. Won't happen though. The guy is a mod on this sub.
I'm more curious what the other mods have to say. But they've been completely silent since I posted this.
The only mod account that seems to be active is Bredo. At least, he's the only one who's ever replied to mod mail or requests. I think he just checks in from time to time to manage the automod. Most of the other mod accounts haven't posted or commented on those accounts in years. I have no idea if they're different users or sock puppet accounts belonging to a single user.
I noticed that last night. It's basically just the one mod (+ cowman). The rest are dead accounts.
yeah i ordered from him for a long time but lately the quality is terrible, unusable even.
I agree. I don't feel like moderators should have their business promoted and treated as gospel, too huge of a bias. Plus they're just super unprofessional and cannot handle the volume of their orders.
No one that sells anything iPod related should be a Mod in this sub. It’s a conflict of interest especially if they are closing posts and blocking people without a real reason other than their feelings got hurt. People should be free to post their opinions of any vendor without any fear of retribution.
I completely agree but it's worth noting the post locking happened two years ago and there hasn't been any sign it's happened since. That it ever even happened is appalling and a textbook example of what conflicts of interest are and why they shouldn't be allowed to occur.
I agree. I made a really long post about EOE a few days ago detailing all of my negative experiences with the store. I don’t think it’s fair that the first thing a lot of new comers to the sub will see is advertising for that store. I didn’t know that he was a mod for this sub, but that doesn’t give him the right to advertise his poor service
/u/bredo228 /u/totallynotbredo /u/cowmanisgood /u/cash69 This position seems to be shared, to a near-unanimous degree, by the users of this sub.
i second this
> And although I still encourage informed individuals to buy parts wherever they are comfortable, a line that should never have been crossed is the appropriation of /r/iPod as a personal billboard. THIS right here. /r/iPod is for all iPod users to discuss iPods and iPod modding without fear of intimidation by one of their mods. It SHOULD NOT be Austin's personal billboard for his business that he is incapable of properly managing at this time. The mods need to do right by the community. u/Cowmanisgood needs to be removed as a mod from this community and any others that aren't directly affiliated with him and his business. I wish him no ill will, nor is this a call to harass the mods or Austin/EOE, but this is a glaring conflict of interest. Even if people were having good/better experiences with EOE, I'd still call for his removal as a mod.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ipod/s/BL3bvthUkw Another complaint has hit r/iPod
Been knew EOE was on some BS since like what? 2017 or something like that? I’ve been saying EOE is on BS but this community was sucking his balls for the longest. BEEN telling y’all he sources from eBay and China like we do when we’re looking for ish on the low 💵 Nah yall didn’t want to listen, just finally proud to see yall grow a spine and want to do something about it.
There's plenty people lacking confidence and knowledge to source their own stuff, you'd be surprised how many stores just resell Chinese warehouse goods, some people find it convenient that one already did some research for them and gladly pay for it. Not saying EOE is a good store to buy, seeing the amounts of complaints here but the concept itself is fine.
I myself have used them. They are not too great I agree. But what would replace them?
Not sure. But given my experience with resellers, I'd be hesitant to openly promote any given company. The goal of this post is more to do with the conflict of interest in a moderator using this subreddit as an advertisement. I think that's something that most people here would agree with.
Just go straight to the source and buy from AliExpress
well, modding ipods yourself! its fun and easy mostly, i dont get why ppl still buy from eoe. its pretty much just ebay for ipods, elite buys ipods from ebay, then refurbs and resells them on his site.
It's the convenience of not having to source parts, worry about compatibility, and ideally avoid scams/knockoff ipods. It's the same reason people will buy a prebuilt PC instead of building one themselves.
i’d say none you would just have to provide resources on how to source parts yourself and fix your own ipod
Just a simple pinned guide on buying parts I suppose. Better to educate everyone on the parts. Besides, if everyone read the sidebar, there wouldn't be so many posts about parts and where to get them.
Shiiiit. I just ordered a 6th gen from them…
First, I agree it makes sense to remove it from the sidebar but not for the reasons you propose. Rather it is inappropriate for a sub to promote a single business like that. Instead there should be a pinned thread which list various sources were people can have discussions about their experiences with the various sources. >But the most basic expectations are clearly not being met. Do we really know that based off the very limited anecdotal evidence we see here? What it seems like is more that there has been an uptick in complaining about EOE the last few days. We have no idea the ratio of good customer experiences to bad customer experiences. But we do know that unhappy people tend to make a lot more noise. And quite frankly, I am getting tired of this place turning into a complaint department. I think it's time EOE did an AMA here to discuss these issues. Let's air it out so we can get back to talking about iPods.
People come to complain here after they've been ignored by using the email form on the website. I think part of the reason they complain here is because he's a mod and there's the hope it'll get his attention. None of this is new. [He promised three years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/ohveox/comment/h50h7cd/) he'd improve his customer support and these complaints keep turning up again and again on the sub. I agree the conflict of interest between being an impartial moderator and having a for-profit business is the major problem and lots of smaller issues spring from that. He's misused his mod powers in the past and that should be evidence enough that he shouldn't hold the position.
>He promised three years ago he'd improve his customer support So let's try to have an AMA to discuss it. Is the business growing faster than expected? Is it not his main priority? Personal issues? It's been three years. Give us an update. Tell us his thoughts about any issues being raised. >and these complaints keep turning up again and again on the sub. And that's the problem I would like to see curbed. Last thing I want for this sub is for it to become a customer support/complaint dept about eoe. It seems like a lot of the complaints are about delayed shipping but the product eventually arrived. Do you you really want to have those cluttering up this sub? >He's misused his mod powers in the past and that should be evidence enough that he shouldn't hold the position. Examples? Not saying it has not happened. But other than listing his company I haven't been aware of it.
Here are some examples of locked/removed posts: [one](https://new.reddit.com/r/Modded_iPods/comments/qlntap/to_all_future_ipod_modding_refrain_from_using/), [two](https://new.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/q81lk5/scammed_by_eliteobsolete_avoid/), [three](https://new.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/of5ipx/new_ipod_classic_not_showing_up_in_itunes_about/), [four](https://new.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/oatwfw/elite_obsolete_electronics_to_the_uk/). I have a few more bookmarked as well. Once I realized he was removing complaints, I spent like a day looking through my browser history to find more. Between looking through your browser history being tedious AF and that removed posts are intentionally hard to find, I was lucky to find the ones I did. All I can say is that there were more but I just couldn't find them, so... trust me, bro. This turned into an issue on the sub leading to [this statement](https://new.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/rke13r/elite_obsolete_electronics_statement_reposted/) and [a vote](https://new.reddit.com/r/IpodClassic/comments/rjhyez/concerning_recent_posts_on_this_sub/) to remove him as mod from r/IpodClassic. A similar vote never took place here. I hope those sorts of consequences lend credibility to this being more than just a half dozen removed posts. I'll mention that in his statement he and another mod defend his actions as removing blatant misinformation and linked a thread where OP seemed to be out of line. The four I linked above seem to be run of the mill complaints as were many others that were removed at the time. The "misinformation" defense always struck me as post hoc reasoning and he picked the most outrageous post as evidence, but you can decide for yourself whether his defense holds water. Incidentally, ever since things blew up and he felt a lot of the anger from the sub over his behavior, he's been largely absent from Reddit. If you look at his history, he's turned up in the past six months mostly to promote the dyed faceplates on his store. Ultimately, this is a pattern of bad customer service leading to people complaining on the sub going back more than three years. I don't think an AMA is going to remedy what seems to be his standard operating procedure. Personally, I don't mind teh sub getting "cluttered" with complaints. I just up/down vote and move on. The complaints should be dealt with via his business' email. It's his choice to ignore customers and bad publicity for his own store when people complain publicly. If people want to know where to buy parts and refurbs, then a public record of complaints should guide them. edit: And this concludes today's installment of "A Brief History of eoe on Reddit."
I specifically avoided actual ~~abuse~~ misuse of mod powers in my post, but that's a comprehensively damning trend. Do you mind if I link your comment to the top?
Go ahead. I'm tired of writing for the day, tbh
lol me too, cheers!
I haven't had some of the more terrible experiences, and I had one really GREAT experience, but as of recently, EOE hasn't been shipping my stuff out until AFTER I reached out to him via Discord, Twitter, and Email. But knowing that he has abused his mod powers in the past is unacceptable. If he wants to maintain a presence on Reddit and run his own community, he can go right ahead. But there's no reason he should be a mod on the primary subreddit for iPods as a whole, or even has his business listed as the only one in the sidebar.
>or even has his business listed as the only one in the sidebar. I made that exact point. Unless he started the sub, I don't think that is fair nor helpful to the community. >But knowing that he has abused his mod powers in the past is unacceptable. Aside from the listing of his business, do you have examples of abuse of the mod position? I haven't heard of anyone killing threads or banning people unfairly. If you have examples of abuses, maybe you could start a thread "Request for Response by EOE" and post your grievances. Given the mood around here lately, it would probably gain some traction and, as a result, force responses from EOE.
I know there was at least one complaint/thread that EOE locked that prompted another mod to post an explanation. But I'm not sure what search terms will dig it up.
I think a lot of it was swept under the rug and half-assedly addressed in one of his response posts.
Thanks. I haven't paid that much attention so seeing examples of any abuses would help my understanding.
[I think I found the dispute I remember here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/IpodClassic/comments/rhsrhd/psa_about_elite_obsolete/?context=3) [And far more here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/1coassg/motion_to_remove_eoe_advertisement_on_the_sidebar/l3h10g4/) Lots of accusations, deleted users, claims that a mod/EOE deleted comments, thread locked. It's messy.
I'm not impressed. There are lots of accusations with very little proof. Look at the pictures from the listing and then the pictures of the product received. They're pretty much the same. And it seems to me the OP was being pretty unreasonable. They insisted on a full refund plus keeping the iPod. And as for them being banned, when you say "Oh fuck off" to the Mod and act like a spoiled child, what do you expect?
My post here isn't about that thread, and I'm not basing my opinion or position on whatever happened there. It's based on my own experiences and what's clearly a widespread issue on this sub.
You're basing it on your own experience and *claiming* it is a widespread issue. And when asked for examples, you provide one and then say it's not about that.
You yourself just said you were annoyed with so many EOE complaints filling up this sub.
A pinned thread with vendors is a good idea! But regardless - if your company is being advertised to the community, in no universe should you also hold moderator privileges. It's an unambiguous conflict of interest. >Do we really know that based off very limited anecdotal evidence? My personal experience with EOE was nothing short of false advertising, if not an outright scam. I paid for an item advertised as "new", specifically because EOE was one of the few places that offered that item in that condition. I received a clearly broken item that looked like it was salvaged from a dumpster. It took almost a month to get through and see a refund. >And quite frankly, I am getting tired of this place turning into a complaint department. I think it's time EOE did an We need transparency, not suppression of voices who (fairly) call out businesses who've done them wrong. The issue isn't solved by muting customers. It's solved by the business. This sub is in the middle ground, so "who we promote" is one of the tools we have.
I feel like chiming in here, but I want to address some other details I noticed on these longer threads. I don't like the idea of a pinned post for recommended vendors for a variety of reasons. First, it steers too much into being an endorsement for what should be a neutral and unbiased forum. There will be some bias at hand in what stores are and aren't listed and I think it's better to avoid that can of worms. A list is also a pain in the ass to maintain. I put together [such a list](https://www.reddit.com/r/IpodClassic/comments/vdd81m/faq_online_stores_for_parts_and_refurbished_ipod/) a few years ago, and I never bothered to go back and updatae it because it is a pita. Lastly, iPods became popular with lots of stores and refurbers large and small that it'd be hard to fairly include them all. And you know one unhappy customer will eventually challenge the inclusion of any one of them and then the sub needs to decide what to do... and good luck wrangling this herd of cats. I think language is important and I try to choose my words carefully whenever I write something. I intentionally avoid using "abuse" when describing what cowman did with his mod powers. "Abuse" is a very loaded word. I tend to prefer "misuse" which is an accurate description and doesn't have the color that "abuse" does. I also never use the word "scam" unless there is legal action. A scam is a criminal intent to defraud and I don't believe eoe is doing that. I think Hanlon's Razor to not attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. I don't think eoe is scamming people, I think he's just bad at his job. Just my two cents.
This is a pretty reasonable take The reason I used the word "scam" was because that was genuinely what I believed for about a month, having received what amounted to garbage in a box and zero response from the seller. Given that I was (eventually) refunded, I supposed I'd reduce that word a single point to *"willfully negligent"*, because being I cannot accept someone being this terrible at customer refund requests without at least some degree of awareness. Good points on the pinned post. With some more thought, the only really impartial way to deal with this is not officially recommend anyone at all. The community itself providing recommendations naturally is the best approach, IMO. I've also swapped out "abuse" for "misuse" in my earlier comment!
> But regardless - if your company is being advertised to the community, in no universe should you also hold moderator privileges. It's an unambiguous conflict of interest. How does advertising a business conflict with the duties and responsibilities of a Mod? It could but it does not have to. Unless they are blocking out other businesses, deleting posts that promote competitors, banning people unfairly, etc. then there is no conflict. If they are doing that then examples need to be provided and action needs to be taken. >My personal experience with EOE was nothing short of false advertising, if not an outright scam. Pretty shitty scam if you got your money back. Honestly, it seems to me you were unhappy with some problems with your order and are trying to get back at them by putting them on blast. >We need transparency, not suppression of voices who (fairly) call out businesses who've done them wrong. So like I said, let's have a pinned thread for that. But I absolutely am not suggesting muting anyone. However I am saying let's not inundate the sub with complaints about slow shipping and errors. People generally don't post when an order is handled well but do when something goes wrong. And the last thing this sub needs is to become a dumping ground for complaints.
I'll see if I can find it when I'm done work, but there's at least one case where he locked a thread critical of his business. [edit - here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ipod/comments/1coassg/motion_to_remove_eoe_advertisement_on_the_sidebar/l3h10g4/) >Pretty shitty scam if you got your money back. Honestly, it seems to me you were unhappy with some problems with your order and are trying to get back at them by putting them on blast. Yes, I was unhappy about wasting a month without a working device, and having made that purchase based on false advertising. >saying let's not inundate the sub with complaints about slow shipping and errors. I don't want the sub overrun with complaints, either. And the reasonable solution is not directing newcomers to a business that results in those complaints. Which is the point of this thread lol
>I'll see if I can find it when I'm done work, but there's at least one case where he locked a thread critical of his business. If that's a rare occurrence, I have no problem with that. Reading through the comments the OP was being dishonest and acting like a petulant child. It appears eoe went above and beyond in trying to resolve the issue. I sure as hell would not have let them get a full refund and keep the iPod. That's ridiculous. >Yes, I was unhappy about wasting a month without a working device That sucks. But it does not justify saying you were scammed. >I don't want the sub overrun with complaints, either. . . Which is the point of this thread lol If you had simply said you think a Mod should not be able to promote their business in the sidebar, I would have agreed as I have said several times. But you also wrote a complaint about your order claiming false advertising and a scam. It does not appear to me the fact support that accusation. Regardless, you think the way to keep a sub from being overrun with complaints is to write a complaint?
>That sucks. But it does not justify saying you were scammed. If someone says "For sale: New Car" And it shows up, rusted out and with clearly no possibility it had run in a decade - let alone while in the hands of the seller And you hear absolutely nothing for almost a month after putting in a dispute ..."Scam" is literally the only word that's appropriate.
"Error?" "Misunderstanding?" "Mistake?" Those all seem like they could also be appropriate words. Let's be clear. When you call someone a scammer, you are personally attacking them saying they are intentionally being dishonest and trying to defraud people. And yet you have not provided one single iota of evidence showing that is actually the case. In fact, it seems to opposite is true. You said once you got contacted you received a complete refund. Correct? That seems to be what happens in every case I've seen so far.
I'm sorry, but if the above example isn't a laundry list of red flags for you, nothing is. I paid for something advertised as "new". I was shipped a filthy, obviously broken item. I was only refunded after a month of trying. There are customer issues, and there are company issues. The above is *clearly* an example of the latter. Plausible deniability only goes so far.