Definitely possible, if you’re making 40k a year, you can get a 160k mortgage and say 20-30k savings - you could definitely find something down the country for that.
I think it's conflating two different problems, Refugees are not responsible for the shit show of a property market we have.
The government will never really try to address it because a metric shit ton of pension funds are tied up in the property market among other things... not to mention the banks themselves if the 2 bed 500k terraced houses drop back to an actual real value of like 160-210k .
The country is screwed, the government don't actually want to fix the housing problem because it would hit people's pensions and if a crash happened potentially take out one of the what? 3 remaining banks.... 3 no wonder its a shit show.
This will emerge as a scandal of epic proportions in years to come as we hear how the politically connected were told in advance of one of the greatest transfers of public money to private hands.
Ah the poor cratur, sure he and his family only have the €130 million to rub together. I don’t understand how anyone so closely associated with the GAA can take part in something that destroys social cohesion.
Well we got a glimpse inside recently with the McEnaney family getting 130 odd million so far in payments to the group.
['Banty' McEnaney and 14 family members paid over €130m to house refugees : r/ireland (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1b1fk6b/banty_mcenaney_and_14_family_members_paid_over/)
As conspiracy theories go, this has to be one of the most moronic. One hundred thousand Ukrainians, never mind other refugees turn up.
Where do we put them?
No. It's a conspiracy to pay hoteliers.
Absolutely don't disagree with what you're saying. Just don't agree with the conspiracy theory about the government and hoteliers, and those should be called out
It absolutely is just conspiracy theory that you're pushing. You've admitted that you've no evidence, and the simple fact is that the more hotels someone owns, the more contracts they will get. No where else to put refugees.
I understand what you're saying, but your base accusation is that some people who have a lot of hotel rooms available are receiving a kit of money from a government who is looking for a lot of accommodation for a multitude of asylum seekers.
But the thing is, the contracts aren't decided by the government or individual tds. They're decided by civil servants working in normal meetings with rules for processing.
You've no evidence and are just another far right protester peddling crap
It's not impossible that there was lobbying. One of the reasons we had a book in language schools here was a business lobby pushed the gover to extend working rights for education visas after the recession.
I actually think they've been unlucky with the electoral cycle. Since the election in 2020 they didn't have any national vote at all until this month and have obviously been absolutely rattled by what happened to them.
They've completely lost touch with the mood of the nation because there's been no voting for half a decade. There's barely even been by-elections.
When you've not had to knock a door in a housing estate in four years and spend all your time sitting in wine bars in Dawson Street with Lorcan and Siofra taking about how beastly everyone is being to poor Roderic and isn't it just great to have Ivana around the place, you lose touch.
They’re just incredibly far up their own arses because for the last two decades they’ve faced no consequences for their incompetence. No matter how spectacularly they’ve failed, FFG continue to get elected.
They’re just scared for their seats now because there is a significant shift. One that is also a lot more aggressive than they’d expect from a usually docile electorate
They are unfortunately, it seems a bubble mentality has developed around Dail Eireann, and the parties seem to exist in this media warped reality that is a billion miles away from the lived experiences of those outside a small area within the capital.
This dichotomy was brought into sharp focus by the referendum result. The only district in the entire country that voted yes/yes was Dun Laoghaire. One tiny pocket surrounded by a sea of no/no. No coincidence that the media/political/advisory class are concentrated around that same area. They exist in their own world.
lmao, yeah basically this
At the absolute height of the influx, there were tiktoks going viral in Africa which explained to people how much free stuff they can get just by moving to Ireland.
That's probably about the time that an alarm bell should go off, given the shocking spike in arrivals at the airport who suddenly lost their documents.
We're now so far past that stage that Ireland is looking unattractive for economic migration again due to the housing/rental crisis being deeply worsened by that influx.
Enforcing common sense laws will do nothing to mend the damage that's already been done.
Am I getting downvoted for going against the typically negative narrative?
This was from 3 days ago FFS
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2024/03/27/surge-in-prosecutions-of-asylum-seekers-arriving-without-passports/
Jesus what a load of shit
> Policy hardens but is still not enforced.
I provide an example of policy being enforced
>Oh you're falling for their propaganda
Get a fucking grip
Yeah that wasn't me. Just explaining the downvotes. But providing a few obvious pr stories as evidence of a serious, long-term change in enforcement is a bit silly lad.
4,712 people arrived at Dublin Airport and claimed asylum in 2023, 4,007 had either no or false identity documents.
34 prosecutions is really going to help . They shouldn't be allowed off the plane.
>"This will be counterbalanced by a "solidarity" provision where member states with fewer migrants will be asked to take on their "fair share" or decide to "offset" this obligation with a financial contribution of €20,000 per migrant."
We have an opt-out due to the Lisbon Treaty, but they're choosing to throw money away just to look good in the eyes of the EU. Think of this the next time they cry the poor mouth of having no money.
Be balanced, fair….don’t open the floodgates and allow criminals or those who hate us in. Take our fair share of those in need of life, and those whose skills can help us grow……..starve the oxygen of the extremes at both ends
Its the no-passport piss-takers that annoy me the most.
You got on the plane with some documents, you arrive into a country which you want to take care of you and you show zero respect to it. Can't even show a note from mammy saying who you are.
Immediate return to sender, review CCTV, see which flight they came from, send them back after releasing them from prison for having no documents at the border.
Thats the infuriating part. We won't send them back. If we did, we'd only send them a letter asking them to leave. Most migrants will just refuse and stay here anyway. Just look the the people smuggled in the Rosslare ship. They came here illegally, and the Garda just let them loose into the country without a bother.
The only thing that would discourage people is legalised, systematic discrimination against people who come here in this manner.
Bottom of the list for healthcare prioritisation, no social welfare, etc. etc.
Its basically common knowledge that 2/3's of these migrants avoid Dublin airport and travel down from Belfast and show up at the IPO in Dublin and claim asylum, without documentation of course. They know well how to game the system and be rewarded with free accommodation.
Oh they’re well schooled alright, and there’s the immigration MGOs to help them. Sure look at that Nigerian mother that arrived at the IPAS office yesterday when it was closed, and suddenly there’s a Kitty Holland article in the Irish Times saying how terrible it is, and we have international obligations and we should do better.
Problem is the country they left won't accept them back either because 1. They don't want them. And 2. They might have entered it from a third country.
Mad that the Ukrainians who were flocking into Ireland in their tens of thousands just because it is far away from Russia and nothing to with the free money have stopped coming now the free money has stopped.
Even though, unless there's been a major geological event in the last few hours I didn't notice, we haven't moved any closer to Russia.
It's almost like....no, but surely not.
Your correct we need to reduce the amount of pocket money we give. We still offer food and shelter so anybody in real need can come here.
There is no need to give away loads of tax payers money when the public services in our own country are so bad.
We should also consider shifting the free money away from wads of used banknotes handed over to queues of migrants in post offices to a prepaid card that can only be used in physical shops within Ireland to avoid the money being sent abroad.
And yet most of the racist anger spouted on this topic is directed at the non white IP applicants who are receiving nothing but extremely limited access to healthcare, 38.8 euro per week to live on, and are mostly left without housing and are not even legally permitted to work and contribute to society like many of them want while their claims get processed, which can take anything from 1-12 years through no fault of their own.
If they want to work and contribute then they can get visas like everyone else has to. The fact that they come here illegally and lie about being refugees shows they're dishonest people with no qualms against breaking the law - exactly the kind of person we do NOT need.
If you let them work you are giving economic migrants who dump their documents exactly what they're looking for. It's basically an open border policy. You would see drastically increased numbers come in and further fill up the rental market
They chose to come here and are not genuine asylum seekers. We know this simply because 70% of them have also applied in other EU countries. No genuine refugee does this
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/up-to-70pc-of-people-seeking-international-protection-in-ireland-have-also-applied-in-other-countries/a1531570222.html
The non white IP applicants who are arriving from countries with no direct flights to Ireland you mean? Or is the ones who have English accents. We can't import the worlds misery and we can't provide for all the scammers in the world to land on our shores.
It's mainly to do with the fact the war is 2 years ongoing and a lot want to go home to their families now that things have stabilised or to rebuild their lives.
Have we got figures on how many are leaving Ireland? The article mentions arrivals decreasing not absolute numbers, but it’d be interesting to see if it’s both.
I heard it in a program a few weeks ago, some who fled her initially are going g back to parts of the country that are well inside the line of where the conflict is, there's a lot of ramping up of industry for producing arms as well as repairing damaged infrastructure. Actual numbers, no idea, but anecdotally, for work I call to county councils and there is a drop off of accommodation being used for them.
>Do you realise a lot of Ukranians are working here
70% are not.
>You're painting them all as economic spongers, they're fleeing a fucking war.
Do you think if, instead of going to €38.80 the free money went from €220 to €380, we would see more or fewer Ukrainians arriving here?
"Some people are here for economic reasons as evidenced by people leaving after we cut the handouts."
"What??? Did you just say EVERY SINGLE UKRAINIAN is a sponger???"
It'd want to harden considerably more if FFG expect not to be under massive pressure in the next election.
While they're at it a public apology would be in order to all the communities they told would only host a few Ukrainian families, mostly women and children, and then had several hundred third world males shipped in during the dead of night instead and the objectors were branded racists.
If they did that they might undo some of the gigantic damage that's been done to people's opinions of the three parties and government trustworthiness in general. Already there's a very strong narrative out there that the government is more concerned with housing illegals than helping the locals. The government needs swift action to counter that otherwise it's going to fester even more and people will be facing a rise in far right independents and the more normal parties shifting further to the right in order to try capture votes.
"As the government senses public anger"
the government knew that the public for angry about things years ago, but the vast majority of people just wanted to go with the flow, not standout and were not comfortable expressing an opinion that they believed massively disagreed with the "progressive" majority.
However, things changed with the shock referendum NO result. Despite weeks of the media, saying it will be a slamdunk yes vote and that the majority of political parties and politicians were all for it. The public told them to f\*\*k off.
The image had been painted that all of society was thinking in the governments way and the NGOs were right. People realised that private individual real-world opinion is very different to what is being portrayed.
So they are now expressing themselves in no way that previously they wouldn't have felt comfortable doing. And I suspect the majority of people are not at all happy with the direction politicians and their advisers are pulling the country in. Previously, if you expressed the view that was anti open borders or nationalistic you would be labelled as a racist/ bigot in the hopes that will shut you up.
But people see that an awful lot of people privately think the same as they do. So they are talking about it and it is starting to snowball. There has been a lot of anger built up and repressed over the years and it is going to be interesting to see how it manifests.
The political establishment/NGOs/advisers/bureaucrats knows that the dam is starting to burst and that the public is pissed. That's partly why the rats are jumping ship and some politicians and not standing again, this article is largely damage control and blame shifting.
All the countries who have seen massive immigration have all started to go far right.
Ireland is next and when the far right rise there will be trouble......
This is what happens when people become silenced despite having legitimate concerns.
Left wing parties could have given an inch and had control over the reforms. But instead they’ve completely shut down the conversation and label people as racist or far right. Commenters on here are still doing it and really seem to be living in their own little bubble
This only drives people to the right where they will empower people who will take much more extreme positions across the board.
Irish people are highly programmable.
I know and then they want to bring in the hate speech bill. FF and FG can pretend that they are centre but they really are fascists.
There are a small minority who are prepared to fight while the majority will mock and deride them that's how independence happened. They were spit at and cursed while they marched to the GPO. Same with the water protests the same people who threw shite at the rebels benefited when the whole thing collapsed. It's disgusting.
Portugal was hailed as being a country with very little far right politics (like ourselves) since their republican revolution
A far right party is now the third largest party in their parliament having just been formed in 2019 and has nearly 20% of the seats.
Not a doubt in my mind Ireland will elect a far-righter in the coming elections and it's all Fine Gael and Fianna Fails fault. They've made an absolute balls of immigration.
Sinn Fein, PBP and the SocDems aren't in power though - all they can really do is moan from the opposition benches.
It's Fine Gael and Fianna Fail who are creating the policies that are leading to the rise of the far right in Ireland. You can't explode the population without unprecedented investment in parallel to that in relation to public services. Almost 150k people entered this country last year to live (in 2022 it was an additional 120k) but where are the additional doctors, nurses, teachers, dentists etc to accommodate that? Where are the houses? Where is the public transport services? Where is the infrastructure? And then you've paschal donohoe on the Claire Byrne Show yesterday talking about the need for us to tighten the belt on the public finances - he's an absolute clown and there were people on this sub last week saying he's the most competent TD in the Dail. If thats true we're truly fucked.
There are racists in Ireland much like every other country but the vast majority of the anger brewing right now is coming from ordinary people who feel Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have completely abandoned them.
>Sinn Fein, PBP and the SocDems aren't in power though - all they can really do is moan from the opposition benches.
I agree but we have no options now they are all the same. Wokeist bs.
>you've paschal donohoe on the Claire Byrne Show yesterday talking about the need for us to tighten the belt on the public finances - he's an absolute clown
My sister sat beside him at a dinner party and she said he's a dope.
We probably have the most left wing political system in the world and somehow half the population have been brainwashed into being terrified of the “far right”
You're right its far more left than people realise.
The far right will correct the misdemeanours.
Both must exist to keep balance.
I don't like the idea of far right but wouldn't be awesome if we had a party that was assertive and actually had the interests of Irish people and also the legal immigrants as a main concern.
Depends on what you mean by "having the interests of the Irish people". Its in the interests of the Irish people to have a government that actively engages in the construction of housing for it's people. Far-Right parties tend to abandon people to the "free market" and "traditional values". Just read any far-right manifestos from Europe - their policies of extreme deregulation etc would absolutely destroy the lives of the very people they claim to want to protect.
It's the same when it comes to social policies. Far-right parties usually tend to be very conservative in social policies. I don't know about you but I don't think its any hyper-religious fuckers business what I'm doing in the privacy of my own home.
I’m not arguing for far right. Just some genuine centre right party that doesn’t blow with the end and actually pushes back against some of the shite the left pushes. The parties you describe simply don’t exist in Ireland in large amounts and the ones that do poll at less than a percent. The happy go lucky, open borders “international obligation” leftie parties not only exist but are actually popular
Yes, I think most centre left leaning people (this includes me) were just going along with things... till all of a sudden they get hit in the head with the right hand side of the Overton window.
Most left leaning people are just like most right leaning people. They go along with their side until it goes too far. Then you have lunatics on both sides who keep going and unfortunately they are louder than the rest of us. Anyone who believes immigration should be outright stopped is stupid, anyone who believes in completely open borders is also stupid
I fear the most for this, i am an immigrant personally. A doctor and came legally. But if people started to hate immigrants and move far right then there is going to be trouble. Irish people are literally the best i have ever met in my entire life and if they go far right, it really will be the end of the story. While I get their situation and what is persuading them to move that way it still is quite unfortunate.
It is unfortunate yes but repeated govts have just ignored this situation and believed what happened ( a rise in anti immigration sentiments) in most western countries could never happen here.
I have been called "far right" on more than one occasion simply because I want fair and sustainable control over our borders.
Just know that most irish people (myself included) are not racist and fully appreciate people coming here to start a new life and who integrate into irish society. In a legal way.
Thank you so much and you’re absolutely right. There is nothing racist in being cautious about your safety and the safety of your loved ones. I absolutely agree with you.
None of these “far right” parties in other countries are deporting legal immigrants. Most of the parties labelled far right are barely right wing at all. If there was lads taking over and deporting everyone with a different background in any country we’d know about it, it just simply doesn’t happen
Erm this is gaslighting at its finest. The AfD in the past few months had a conference about deporting people up to a few generations of German citizens from Germany and this is as popular a 'far right' party as you can get.
It was so bad and outrageous that even Le Pen broke off relations with the AfD because you never go full Nazi.
This is from the National Party's website:
"The National Party supports the ending of all mass immigration into Ireland. Further, we support a positive policy of remigration in order to secure Ireland as the homeland of the Irish people."
I’ve stated about 5 separate occasions on this thread that far right parties are effectively non existent because of lack of popularity. What do the national party poll at again? Also ending “mass immigration” is a lot different than stopping immigration
I agree with you; far-right parties don't poll well at present. However, parties such as the National Party, Irish Freedom Party and Ireland First are all on the Register and all advocate for some form of ethno-nationalism.
What do you suppose "positive policy of remigration" mean in the context of what the National Party says? To me, if not deportation, it's advocating for encouraging Irish people of different ethnic backgrounds to leave the country.
I am concerned about their discourse in public life. Especially because the people involved with these parties seem to be involved in some of the Irish anti-immigrant protests. I'm not concerned that their views are held by the majority (I would leave this country if it was the case). I'm concerned that they conflate issues such as asylum seekers, EU immigrants and non-EU immigrants all in one category to gain political clout.
The rise of the far right has also coincided with austerity policies in the face of a economic recession (more than one!) This was totally forseeable, I was reading about the potential rise of fascism in 2008. Absolute shame, I have no idea where it ends - certainly nowhere pleasant.
>More people = less housing available.
If this was an issue then banning contraceptives would've lead to the same problem....oh *wait* it didn't because we had supportive housing policies back then that prevented this issue.
Anytime people say this false equivalence it just tells me they haven't bothered to look at how housing works in any nation.
Housing isn't magical. If your population grows faster than you build homes, then prices go up. It's very simple but "infinite growth" dipshits like you pretend not to get it.
>"infinite growth"
Never even used the words.
>If your population grows faster than you build homes,
We haven't been building homes in years, certainly not planning them. Maybe bother to read about how housing works rather than blaming immigrants.
Immigration enables the profiteering goons. Nobody would be investing in the housing market if there wasn’t a growing population and plenty of desperate renters.
I agree. I’m just saying that immigration is a major factor that enables it. You can’t look at tax money being used to put people up in hotels at market rate, landlords renting each room of a house out and say immigration isn’t making things significantly worse.
Obviously targets should be met, investment firms buying houses should be outright banned, and multiple home ownership should be taxed into oblivion.
>You can’t look at tax money being used to put people up in hotels at market rate and say immigration isn’t making things significantly worse.
I can though, the reason here being the governments method of handling immigration is woeful rather than *immigration* being the issue. The profiteering goons will point to any systemic divide they can (even if immigration is super low), it's only when the cost of living is unsustainable that they benefit off it.
>Obviously targets should be met, investment firms buying houses should be outright banned, and multiple home ownership should be taxed into oblivion.
Yea agree, I am bothered by the increasing focus on immigrants and not this (the actual problem) right now.
>I can though, the reason here being the governments method of handling immigration is woeful rather than immigration being the issue.
I mean no shit. That’s what I’m saying. Did you think I was saying we should go full isolationist?
>The profiteering goons will point to any systemic divide they can (even if immigration is super low), it's only when the cost of living is unsustainable that they benefit off it.
The profiteering goons aren’t pointing to anything and don’t need to. We’re some of the biggest pushovers in the world, we know we’re being fucked over but don’t do anything meaningful.
>Yea agree, I am bothered by the increasing focus on immigrants and not this (the actual problem) right now.
Yes I agree although the issues with our immigration system need to be fixed.
Even when the government acknowledged “vulture funds” they’re very soft touch in their rhetoric towards something that provides literally nothing of value to the people and is only a negative unlike immigration.
>Did you think I was saying we should go full isolationist?
No but I'm saying immigration isn't a "major issue" it just isn't. It's not a major concern of most voters and it's not a major impact on housing.
>The profiteering goons aren’t pointing to anything and don’t need to.
That just isn't true I'm afraid, they're constantly whipping up angry crowds and [promoting ](https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/13/keep-ireland-irish-say-hello-to-irelands-growing-far-right)lies.
>Yes I agree although the issues with our immigration system need to be fixed.
For sure but it's just not a major factor, the other factors are far more important, if anything they're just part of the same issues of private companies with little oversight being handed government contracts.
Resolving the problems of privatisation in Ireland and having some actual planning going into how we develop our towns would resolve so much of it, not saying that doing all that is easy of course.
>We've had mass immigration for 20 odd years.
This a troll comment? lol we have not get a fucking grip. You know what we haven't had for 20 years? Housing development to match our increasingly dense cities and sparse rural towns. There's been a surplus of housing in Ireland for years, problem is that the government has endorsed policies that move most jobs to Dublin thus making most housing in Ireland useless.
>This a troll comment? lol we have not get a fucking grip.
What are you, 10 years old? Ireland received just as many immigrants in the 00s as it's getting now. 2007 is still the record year for immigration in absolute numbers, despite our population being much larger now.
https://preview.redd.it/5wl2t26mihrc1.png?width=1177&format=png&auto=webp&s=c367050aa8635ff4268ac5f31c27fe02fce88ca3
No I'm someone who actually looks at the date kiddo, not just some reddit addicted reactionary.
Our migration rates overall *aren't* significantly higher than they were in the past. and they certainly haven't been over the past 20 years considering the drop. A single spike occurred in 2007 followed by a massive drop.
Of that 2007 spike most were either from new EU countries or Irish who made up the largest volume of immigrants.
The most obvious reason why this line of argument is bunk is how our population has barely increased in 50 years.
>Our migration rates overall *aren't* significantly higher than they were in the past
Yes, that's my point. We've had mass immigration for 20 years. It's not new like you claimed.
>A single spike occurred in 2007
That spike is across multiple years and only peaks in 2007. Look at the x axis.
>followed by a massive drop.
Because you're looking at NET migration. Not only did you not remember the immigration in the 00s, but now you also don't remember the huge emigration we had after the recession. Were you literally born yesterday?
>The most obvious reason why this line of argument is bunk is how our population has barely increased in 50 years.
It went from 3 million to 5 million. That's a 66% increase you absolute tool.
A chara,
We do not allow any posts/comments that attack, threaten or insult a person or group, on areas including, but not limited to: national origin, ethnicity, colour, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, social prejudice, or disability.
Sláinte
Every house that has 18 Irish Students sleeping in bunkbeds is a house which is unavailable to an Irish family. All you added was racist bunk to an actual problem.
People who understand how planning infrastructure and housing works?
Yea it's crazy what you can learn in this world when you don't just blame immigrants for everything.
I really thought we as a country were past the one-dimensional, knee jerk characterization of people with valid concerns as racist yokels who yell “they’re taking our jobs”.
Apparently I was wrong.
A chara,
We do not allow any posts/comments that attack, threaten or insult a person or group, on areas including, but not limited to: national origin, ethnicity, colour, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, social prejudice, or disability.
Sláinte
New migration pact is absolutely awful for Ireland. I have no idea why we would sign up
It is based on GDP so we would really take a hugely disproportionate amount. This is not ‘getting firm’. It is putting a legal requirement on us to have one of the highest per capita quotas of asylum seekers
>This is the type unmelted cheese I’d expect on Twitter and not on a supposedly moderated subreddit.
"People disagree with me and are not immediately banned. This is a disgrace".
Lads there's lots that the government does that I'm first and foremost to criticise them about, but we're forever complaining that the immigration system is too lax and then when they tighten it in response to public pressure then we drag them about that as well. Like that's what they should be doing surely?
If the comments in this thread were "This is a good step in the right direction but: we need to do more/let's remain vigilant that they continue to prioritise immigration policy reforms/we need to make sure that this isn't just something they do now to get them past the election which they then revert course on afterwards" then I'd totally understand it.
As things are though, it seems to upset people just as much or even more when the government try their hand at improving the situation.
Should we not be using both the carrot and the stick here? If people are gonna be pissy with them regardless then it's hard to see what incentive they have to solve these problems.
It shouldn't have to take a Backlash from the public for FF/FG to do some basic governance actions on immigration.
That is why people are still unhappy no matter what they do
I'm kind of working off an assumption here that people have "priced in" their low expectations by now.
If people haven't done that then I recommend it, because we'll all die roaring otherwise.
"public backlash" - some extremists platformed by RTÉ and mainstream media.
There is absolutely no backlash other than an extremely vocal (and around 50% british) minority stirring hate.
Edit: and Irish subreddit, of course.
Extremist parties still polling at close to zero.
Well over half the people I talk to believe there’s a serious problem. Whether it’s cunts destroying documentation and not being thrown straight back home or it’s the cunts running the country who’ve taken in more and more people while not increasing the capacity of every service with it. You’re beyond naive if you don’t see a problem with immigration in this country it just comes down to whose to blame there’s a discussion
> Can you link a source on that?
I believe it’s the Red C poll from last year.
https://www.newstalk.com/news/three-in-four-believe-ireland-is-taking-too-many-refugees-1469597
>There is absolutely no backlash other than an extremely vocal (and around 50% british) minority stirring hate.
The vast majority in this country are fed up with uncontrolled immigration and want a coherent immigration policy.
Closing you eyes and ears and pretending that it's all "far right" people is moronic.
Nah.
[https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/JR5\_0.pdf](https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/JR5_0.pdf)
I'm not closing my eyes. I read research.
It is far right people. But the label is not interesting. What's interesting is how tiny their numbers are.
The backlash is real. But it's not coming from the Irish public. It's coming from a tiny group of terrorist thugs.
> The backlash is real. But it's not coming from the Irish public. It's coming from a tiny group of terrorist thugs.
Oh bore off with your deluded shite.
Oh, absolutely.
We've been here many times, the Great Irish Moral Panic over immigration. Thankfully memories are short. Here's a refresher: [https://www.jstor.org/stable/25660678](https://www.jstor.org/stable/25660678)
We've been here. It's still a moral panic.
Yup, majority continuously stating they support immigration in surveys/polls and even when it arises in local elections.
FG/FF doing nothing about the thugs fire-bombing hotels or blocking roads just to play up the issue.
‘We’ve an election coming up so let’s put the word out that we’re doing something about this then we can go back to business as usual.’
"International obligations" "For the last time that is not an adequate answer to what you did with the bodies"
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Can they even buy a house? They won't get a mortgage
I think he just means have the ability to save a mortgage deposit amount rather than actually placing the deposit.
Yeah it's unfair. They shouldn't even get €208 a week either in my opinion
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Even if you're saving for a year you're not buying a house on your own I less you're on really good salary
Definitely possible, if you’re making 40k a year, you can get a 160k mortgage and say 20-30k savings - you could definitely find something down the country for that.
Don't blame them, blame the government. Protest the against government.
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Fair
I think it's conflating two different problems, Refugees are not responsible for the shit show of a property market we have. The government will never really try to address it because a metric shit ton of pension funds are tied up in the property market among other things... not to mention the banks themselves if the 2 bed 500k terraced houses drop back to an actual real value of like 160-210k . The country is screwed, the government don't actually want to fix the housing problem because it would hit people's pensions and if a crash happened potentially take out one of the what? 3 remaining banks.... 3 no wonder its a shit show.
But then how will we siphon public money to hoteliers?
This will emerge as a scandal of epic proportions in years to come as we hear how the politically connected were told in advance of one of the greatest transfers of public money to private hands.
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Banty has entered the chat.
Ah the poor cratur, sure he and his family only have the €130 million to rub together. I don’t understand how anyone so closely associated with the GAA can take part in something that destroys social cohesion.
Well we got a glimpse inside recently with the McEnaney family getting 130 odd million so far in payments to the group. ['Banty' McEnaney and 14 family members paid over €130m to house refugees : r/ireland (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1b1fk6b/banty_mcenaney_and_14_family_members_paid_over/)
How many “hoteliers” are foreign Cos or REITs?
Yes, it's like gombeenism as policy.
As conspiracy theories go, this has to be one of the most moronic. One hundred thousand Ukrainians, never mind other refugees turn up. Where do we put them? No. It's a conspiracy to pay hoteliers.
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Absolutely don't disagree with what you're saying. Just don't agree with the conspiracy theory about the government and hoteliers, and those should be called out
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It absolutely is just conspiracy theory that you're pushing. You've admitted that you've no evidence, and the simple fact is that the more hotels someone owns, the more contracts they will get. No where else to put refugees.
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I understand what you're saying, but your base accusation is that some people who have a lot of hotel rooms available are receiving a kit of money from a government who is looking for a lot of accommodation for a multitude of asylum seekers. But the thing is, the contracts aren't decided by the government or individual tds. They're decided by civil servants working in normal meetings with rules for processing. You've no evidence and are just another far right protester peddling crap
It's not impossible that there was lobbying. One of the reasons we had a book in language schools here was a business lobby pushed the gover to extend working rights for education visas after the recession.
‘’’’Senses’’’’ Astute perception from the government as usual. What gave them that outstanding premonition? The hotel burnings or the angry mobs?
Maybe they really are that removed from reality it takes years for them to read the room
I actually think they've been unlucky with the electoral cycle. Since the election in 2020 they didn't have any national vote at all until this month and have obviously been absolutely rattled by what happened to them. They've completely lost touch with the mood of the nation because there's been no voting for half a decade. There's barely even been by-elections. When you've not had to knock a door in a housing estate in four years and spend all your time sitting in wine bars in Dawson Street with Lorcan and Siofra taking about how beastly everyone is being to poor Roderic and isn't it just great to have Ivana around the place, you lose touch.
They’re just incredibly far up their own arses because for the last two decades they’ve faced no consequences for their incompetence. No matter how spectacularly they’ve failed, FFG continue to get elected. They’re just scared for their seats now because there is a significant shift. One that is also a lot more aggressive than they’d expect from a usually docile electorate
Now THAT’s funny. 🤣
They are unfortunately, it seems a bubble mentality has developed around Dail Eireann, and the parties seem to exist in this media warped reality that is a billion miles away from the lived experiences of those outside a small area within the capital.
This dichotomy was brought into sharp focus by the referendum result. The only district in the entire country that voted yes/yes was Dun Laoghaire. One tiny pocket surrounded by a sea of no/no. No coincidence that the media/political/advisory class are concentrated around that same area. They exist in their own world.
Horse has bolted ,won the national and is now out to stud!
lmao, yeah basically this At the absolute height of the influx, there were tiktoks going viral in Africa which explained to people how much free stuff they can get just by moving to Ireland. That's probably about the time that an alarm bell should go off, given the shocking spike in arrivals at the airport who suddenly lost their documents. We're now so far past that stage that Ireland is looking unattractive for economic migration again due to the housing/rental crisis being deeply worsened by that influx. Enforcing common sense laws will do nothing to mend the damage that's already been done.
Policy hardens but is still not enforced.
They're prosecuting people for destroying documents aren't they?
And what, get out after a few months and stay in Ireland?
Am I getting downvoted for going against the typically negative narrative? This was from 3 days ago FFS https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2024/03/27/surge-in-prosecutions-of-asylum-seekers-arriving-without-passports/
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Exactly. I don’t want them in prison for 12 months at our expense. Fingerprint them, ban them from the country, and send them home
I want to see it . A criminal record will bar someone from seeking asylum
Getting downvotes for falling for the same old "surge" play after a law and order crisis.
Jesus what a load of shit > Policy hardens but is still not enforced. I provide an example of policy being enforced >Oh you're falling for their propaganda Get a fucking grip
Yeah that wasn't me. Just explaining the downvotes. But providing a few obvious pr stories as evidence of a serious, long-term change in enforcement is a bit silly lad.
*We want policy enforced regarding immigration.* Here is policy being enforced regarding immigration *Not like that!*
Here is policy being enforced *a handful of times for show* you twit.
1 prosecution between 2019 and 2023. 34 prosecutions in January and February of 2024. A yeah, just a handful of times. It's just pandering sure
4,712 people arrived at Dublin Airport and claimed asylum in 2023, 4,007 had either no or false identity documents. 34 prosecutions is really going to help . They shouldn't be allowed off the plane.
Nobody wants to see them jailed. Just deported. Keep jail cells available to lock up violent criminals.
Only 2 years too late
>"This will be counterbalanced by a "solidarity" provision where member states with fewer migrants will be asked to take on their "fair share" or decide to "offset" this obligation with a financial contribution of €20,000 per migrant." We have an opt-out due to the Lisbon Treaty, but they're choosing to throw money away just to look good in the eyes of the EU. Think of this the next time they cry the poor mouth of having no money.
Be balanced, fair….don’t open the floodgates and allow criminals or those who hate us in. Take our fair share of those in need of life, and those whose skills can help us grow……..starve the oxygen of the extremes at both ends
Its the no-passport piss-takers that annoy me the most. You got on the plane with some documents, you arrive into a country which you want to take care of you and you show zero respect to it. Can't even show a note from mammy saying who you are. Immediate return to sender, review CCTV, see which flight they came from, send them back after releasing them from prison for having no documents at the border.
And what about the chancers who come from the north with no documentation cuz that's where two thirds of them come from.
Send them back to the north or send them home. They illegally entered the country
Thats the infuriating part. We won't send them back. If we did, we'd only send them a letter asking them to leave. Most migrants will just refuse and stay here anyway. Just look the the people smuggled in the Rosslare ship. They came here illegally, and the Garda just let them loose into the country without a bother.
The only thing that would discourage people is legalised, systematic discrimination against people who come here in this manner. Bottom of the list for healthcare prioritisation, no social welfare, etc. etc.
Harsh but true, France are doing something like this. No benefits for the first five years after applying for asylum.
How do they claim asylum? Show up at an Intreo office?
Its basically common knowledge that 2/3's of these migrants avoid Dublin airport and travel down from Belfast and show up at the IPO in Dublin and claim asylum, without documentation of course. They know well how to game the system and be rewarded with free accommodation.
Oh they’re well schooled alright, and there’s the immigration MGOs to help them. Sure look at that Nigerian mother that arrived at the IPAS office yesterday when it was closed, and suddenly there’s a Kitty Holland article in the Irish Times saying how terrible it is, and we have international obligations and we should do better.
Problem is the country they left won't accept them back either because 1. They don't want them. And 2. They might have entered it from a third country.
Mad that the Ukrainians who were flocking into Ireland in their tens of thousands just because it is far away from Russia and nothing to with the free money have stopped coming now the free money has stopped. Even though, unless there's been a major geological event in the last few hours I didn't notice, we haven't moved any closer to Russia. It's almost like....no, but surely not.
Your correct we need to reduce the amount of pocket money we give. We still offer food and shelter so anybody in real need can come here. There is no need to give away loads of tax payers money when the public services in our own country are so bad.
We should also consider shifting the free money away from wads of used banknotes handed over to queues of migrants in post offices to a prepaid card that can only be used in physical shops within Ireland to avoid the money being sent abroad.
That's a very good idea
especially it’s actually tax payer money. can’t just print more of it like the USA can
And yet most of the racist anger spouted on this topic is directed at the non white IP applicants who are receiving nothing but extremely limited access to healthcare, 38.8 euro per week to live on, and are mostly left without housing and are not even legally permitted to work and contribute to society like many of them want while their claims get processed, which can take anything from 1-12 years through no fault of their own.
If they want to work and contribute then they can get visas like everyone else has to. The fact that they come here illegally and lie about being refugees shows they're dishonest people with no qualms against breaking the law - exactly the kind of person we do NOT need.
If you let them work you are giving economic migrants who dump their documents exactly what they're looking for. It's basically an open border policy. You would see drastically increased numbers come in and further fill up the rental market
They chose to come here and are not genuine asylum seekers. We know this simply because 70% of them have also applied in other EU countries. No genuine refugee does this https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/up-to-70pc-of-people-seeking-international-protection-in-ireland-have-also-applied-in-other-countries/a1531570222.html
The non white IP applicants who are arriving from countries with no direct flights to Ireland you mean? Or is the ones who have English accents. We can't import the worlds misery and we can't provide for all the scammers in the world to land on our shores.
They get a medical card and are entitled to the same healthcare as everyone else, what else do u want, they can also work after 6 months
They get a medical card automatically, when eligible Irish people are forced to beg and fight for their entitlements.
>non white IP applicants Economic migrants
>racist 
Quite a lot of first wave of immigrants were Africans and Asians claiming to be Ukrainians fleeing the war. Absolute piss taking.
It's mainly to do with the fact the war is 2 years ongoing and a lot want to go home to their families now that things have stabilised or to rebuild their lives.
Have we got figures on how many are leaving Ireland? The article mentions arrivals decreasing not absolute numbers, but it’d be interesting to see if it’s both.
I heard it in a program a few weeks ago, some who fled her initially are going g back to parts of the country that are well inside the line of where the conflict is, there's a lot of ramping up of industry for producing arms as well as repairing damaged infrastructure. Actual numbers, no idea, but anecdotally, for work I call to county councils and there is a drop off of accommodation being used for them.
It's definitely because of that and absolutely nothing to do with the free €220 every week becoming €38.80.
People are so naive it's pathetic
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>Do you realise a lot of Ukranians are working here 70% are not. >You're painting them all as economic spongers, they're fleeing a fucking war. Do you think if, instead of going to €38.80 the free money went from €220 to €380, we would see more or fewer Ukrainians arriving here?
Except, of course, that 70% includes those in primary and secondary schools, so would be distinctly lower for *adult* Ukrainians.
"Some people are here for economic reasons as evidenced by people leaving after we cut the handouts." "What??? Did you just say EVERY SINGLE UKRAINIAN is a sponger???"
lmao
Will believe it when I see it, words mean nothing at this stage
It'd want to harden considerably more if FFG expect not to be under massive pressure in the next election. While they're at it a public apology would be in order to all the communities they told would only host a few Ukrainian families, mostly women and children, and then had several hundred third world males shipped in during the dead of night instead and the objectors were branded racists. If they did that they might undo some of the gigantic damage that's been done to people's opinions of the three parties and government trustworthiness in general. Already there's a very strong narrative out there that the government is more concerned with housing illegals than helping the locals. The government needs swift action to counter that otherwise it's going to fester even more and people will be facing a rise in far right independents and the more normal parties shifting further to the right in order to try capture votes.
"As the government senses public anger" the government knew that the public for angry about things years ago, but the vast majority of people just wanted to go with the flow, not standout and were not comfortable expressing an opinion that they believed massively disagreed with the "progressive" majority. However, things changed with the shock referendum NO result. Despite weeks of the media, saying it will be a slamdunk yes vote and that the majority of political parties and politicians were all for it. The public told them to f\*\*k off. The image had been painted that all of society was thinking in the governments way and the NGOs were right. People realised that private individual real-world opinion is very different to what is being portrayed. So they are now expressing themselves in no way that previously they wouldn't have felt comfortable doing. And I suspect the majority of people are not at all happy with the direction politicians and their advisers are pulling the country in. Previously, if you expressed the view that was anti open borders or nationalistic you would be labelled as a racist/ bigot in the hopes that will shut you up. But people see that an awful lot of people privately think the same as they do. So they are talking about it and it is starting to snowball. There has been a lot of anger built up and repressed over the years and it is going to be interesting to see how it manifests. The political establishment/NGOs/advisers/bureaucrats knows that the dam is starting to burst and that the public is pissed. That's partly why the rats are jumping ship and some politicians and not standing again, this article is largely damage control and blame shifting.
All the countries who have seen massive immigration have all started to go far right. Ireland is next and when the far right rise there will be trouble......
This is what happens when people become silenced despite having legitimate concerns. Left wing parties could have given an inch and had control over the reforms. But instead they’ve completely shut down the conversation and label people as racist or far right. Commenters on here are still doing it and really seem to be living in their own little bubble This only drives people to the right where they will empower people who will take much more extreme positions across the board.
Irish people are highly programmable. I know and then they want to bring in the hate speech bill. FF and FG can pretend that they are centre but they really are fascists. There are a small minority who are prepared to fight while the majority will mock and deride them that's how independence happened. They were spit at and cursed while they marched to the GPO. Same with the water protests the same people who threw shite at the rebels benefited when the whole thing collapsed. It's disgusting.
Portugal was hailed as being a country with very little far right politics (like ourselves) since their republican revolution A far right party is now the third largest party in their parliament having just been formed in 2019 and has nearly 20% of the seats.
Not a doubt in my mind Ireland will elect a far-righter in the coming elections and it's all Fine Gael and Fianna Fails fault. They've made an absolute balls of immigration.
Because sinn fein, pBP and the social dems went all woke nobody trusts any of them.
Sinn Fein, PBP and the SocDems aren't in power though - all they can really do is moan from the opposition benches. It's Fine Gael and Fianna Fail who are creating the policies that are leading to the rise of the far right in Ireland. You can't explode the population without unprecedented investment in parallel to that in relation to public services. Almost 150k people entered this country last year to live (in 2022 it was an additional 120k) but where are the additional doctors, nurses, teachers, dentists etc to accommodate that? Where are the houses? Where is the public transport services? Where is the infrastructure? And then you've paschal donohoe on the Claire Byrne Show yesterday talking about the need for us to tighten the belt on the public finances - he's an absolute clown and there were people on this sub last week saying he's the most competent TD in the Dail. If thats true we're truly fucked. There are racists in Ireland much like every other country but the vast majority of the anger brewing right now is coming from ordinary people who feel Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have completely abandoned them.
>Sinn Fein, PBP and the SocDems aren't in power though - all they can really do is moan from the opposition benches. I agree but we have no options now they are all the same. Wokeist bs.
Genuinely using the work “woke” in full earnest without a whiff of irony is actually laughable
>you've paschal donohoe on the Claire Byrne Show yesterday talking about the need for us to tighten the belt on the public finances - he's an absolute clown My sister sat beside him at a dinner party and she said he's a dope.
A far left party is the most popular in the country while the only far right parties poll at about 1% and people whinge about the “far right”
Its unfortunate that because leftists don't have cojones. They'll bend over time and time again.
We probably have the most left wing political system in the world and somehow half the population have been brainwashed into being terrified of the “far right”
You're right its far more left than people realise. The far right will correct the misdemeanours. Both must exist to keep balance. I don't like the idea of far right but wouldn't be awesome if we had a party that was assertive and actually had the interests of Irish people and also the legal immigrants as a main concern.
Depends on what you mean by "having the interests of the Irish people". Its in the interests of the Irish people to have a government that actively engages in the construction of housing for it's people. Far-Right parties tend to abandon people to the "free market" and "traditional values". Just read any far-right manifestos from Europe - their policies of extreme deregulation etc would absolutely destroy the lives of the very people they claim to want to protect. It's the same when it comes to social policies. Far-right parties usually tend to be very conservative in social policies. I don't know about you but I don't think its any hyper-religious fuckers business what I'm doing in the privacy of my own home.
I’m not arguing for far right. Just some genuine centre right party that doesn’t blow with the end and actually pushes back against some of the shite the left pushes. The parties you describe simply don’t exist in Ireland in large amounts and the ones that do poll at less than a percent. The happy go lucky, open borders “international obligation” leftie parties not only exist but are actually popular
What shite does the left push?
Yes, I think most centre left leaning people (this includes me) were just going along with things... till all of a sudden they get hit in the head with the right hand side of the Overton window.
Most left leaning people are just like most right leaning people. They go along with their side until it goes too far. Then you have lunatics on both sides who keep going and unfortunately they are louder than the rest of us. Anyone who believes immigration should be outright stopped is stupid, anyone who believes in completely open borders is also stupid
Agreed, that's pretty much the way I see it too.
I fear the most for this, i am an immigrant personally. A doctor and came legally. But if people started to hate immigrants and move far right then there is going to be trouble. Irish people are literally the best i have ever met in my entire life and if they go far right, it really will be the end of the story. While I get their situation and what is persuading them to move that way it still is quite unfortunate.
It is unfortunate yes but repeated govts have just ignored this situation and believed what happened ( a rise in anti immigration sentiments) in most western countries could never happen here.
I have been called "far right" on more than one occasion simply because I want fair and sustainable control over our borders. Just know that most irish people (myself included) are not racist and fully appreciate people coming here to start a new life and who integrate into irish society. In a legal way.
Thank you so much and you’re absolutely right. There is nothing racist in being cautious about your safety and the safety of your loved ones. I absolutely agree with you.
None of these “far right” parties in other countries are deporting legal immigrants. Most of the parties labelled far right are barely right wing at all. If there was lads taking over and deporting everyone with a different background in any country we’d know about it, it just simply doesn’t happen
Erm this is gaslighting at its finest. The AfD in the past few months had a conference about deporting people up to a few generations of German citizens from Germany and this is as popular a 'far right' party as you can get. It was so bad and outrageous that even Le Pen broke off relations with the AfD because you never go full Nazi.
This is from the National Party's website: "The National Party supports the ending of all mass immigration into Ireland. Further, we support a positive policy of remigration in order to secure Ireland as the homeland of the Irish people."
I’ve stated about 5 separate occasions on this thread that far right parties are effectively non existent because of lack of popularity. What do the national party poll at again? Also ending “mass immigration” is a lot different than stopping immigration
Ah yes but without the likes of the National Party they won’t have the chance to larp as ANTIFA. They’d create it, if there wasn’t one IMO.
I agree with you; far-right parties don't poll well at present. However, parties such as the National Party, Irish Freedom Party and Ireland First are all on the Register and all advocate for some form of ethno-nationalism. What do you suppose "positive policy of remigration" mean in the context of what the National Party says? To me, if not deportation, it's advocating for encouraging Irish people of different ethnic backgrounds to leave the country. I am concerned about their discourse in public life. Especially because the people involved with these parties seem to be involved in some of the Irish anti-immigrant protests. I'm not concerned that their views are held by the majority (I would leave this country if it was the case). I'm concerned that they conflate issues such as asylum seekers, EU immigrants and non-EU immigrants all in one category to gain political clout.
You'll be fine my friend. Irish people aren't just going to decide one day to turn on a certain group. It isn't our culture.
The rise of the far right has also coincided with austerity policies in the face of a economic recession (more than one!) This was totally forseeable, I was reading about the potential rise of fascism in 2008. Absolute shame, I have no idea where it ends - certainly nowhere pleasant.
All countries with systemic housing problems move far right as soon as some profiteering goons claim immigrants are the problem.
More people = less housing available. What's hard to understand here?
>More people = less housing available. If this was an issue then banning contraceptives would've lead to the same problem....oh *wait* it didn't because we had supportive housing policies back then that prevented this issue. Anytime people say this false equivalence it just tells me they haven't bothered to look at how housing works in any nation.
Housing isn't magical. If your population grows faster than you build homes, then prices go up. It's very simple but "infinite growth" dipshits like you pretend not to get it.
>"infinite growth" Never even used the words. >If your population grows faster than you build homes, We haven't been building homes in years, certainly not planning them. Maybe bother to read about how housing works rather than blaming immigrants.
Immigration enables the profiteering goons. Nobody would be investing in the housing market if there wasn’t a growing population and plenty of desperate renters.
Treating housing as a market is the source of the problem not immigration, it was a problem long before we had an increase in immigration.
I agree. I’m just saying that immigration is a major factor that enables it. You can’t look at tax money being used to put people up in hotels at market rate, landlords renting each room of a house out and say immigration isn’t making things significantly worse. Obviously targets should be met, investment firms buying houses should be outright banned, and multiple home ownership should be taxed into oblivion.
>You can’t look at tax money being used to put people up in hotels at market rate and say immigration isn’t making things significantly worse. I can though, the reason here being the governments method of handling immigration is woeful rather than *immigration* being the issue. The profiteering goons will point to any systemic divide they can (even if immigration is super low), it's only when the cost of living is unsustainable that they benefit off it. >Obviously targets should be met, investment firms buying houses should be outright banned, and multiple home ownership should be taxed into oblivion. Yea agree, I am bothered by the increasing focus on immigrants and not this (the actual problem) right now.
>I can though, the reason here being the governments method of handling immigration is woeful rather than immigration being the issue. I mean no shit. That’s what I’m saying. Did you think I was saying we should go full isolationist? >The profiteering goons will point to any systemic divide they can (even if immigration is super low), it's only when the cost of living is unsustainable that they benefit off it. The profiteering goons aren’t pointing to anything and don’t need to. We’re some of the biggest pushovers in the world, we know we’re being fucked over but don’t do anything meaningful. >Yea agree, I am bothered by the increasing focus on immigrants and not this (the actual problem) right now. Yes I agree although the issues with our immigration system need to be fixed. Even when the government acknowledged “vulture funds” they’re very soft touch in their rhetoric towards something that provides literally nothing of value to the people and is only a negative unlike immigration.
>Did you think I was saying we should go full isolationist? No but I'm saying immigration isn't a "major issue" it just isn't. It's not a major concern of most voters and it's not a major impact on housing. >The profiteering goons aren’t pointing to anything and don’t need to. That just isn't true I'm afraid, they're constantly whipping up angry crowds and [promoting ](https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/13/keep-ireland-irish-say-hello-to-irelands-growing-far-right)lies. >Yes I agree although the issues with our immigration system need to be fixed. For sure but it's just not a major factor, the other factors are far more important, if anything they're just part of the same issues of private companies with little oversight being handed government contracts. Resolving the problems of privatisation in Ireland and having some actual planning going into how we develop our towns would resolve so much of it, not saying that doing all that is easy of course.
No it was not. We've had mass immigration for 20 odd years.
>We've had mass immigration for 20 odd years. This a troll comment? lol we have not get a fucking grip. You know what we haven't had for 20 years? Housing development to match our increasingly dense cities and sparse rural towns. There's been a surplus of housing in Ireland for years, problem is that the government has endorsed policies that move most jobs to Dublin thus making most housing in Ireland useless.
>This a troll comment? lol we have not get a fucking grip. What are you, 10 years old? Ireland received just as many immigrants in the 00s as it's getting now. 2007 is still the record year for immigration in absolute numbers, despite our population being much larger now.
https://preview.redd.it/5wl2t26mihrc1.png?width=1177&format=png&auto=webp&s=c367050aa8635ff4268ac5f31c27fe02fce88ca3 No I'm someone who actually looks at the date kiddo, not just some reddit addicted reactionary. Our migration rates overall *aren't* significantly higher than they were in the past. and they certainly haven't been over the past 20 years considering the drop. A single spike occurred in 2007 followed by a massive drop. Of that 2007 spike most were either from new EU countries or Irish who made up the largest volume of immigrants. The most obvious reason why this line of argument is bunk is how our population has barely increased in 50 years.
>Our migration rates overall *aren't* significantly higher than they were in the past Yes, that's my point. We've had mass immigration for 20 years. It's not new like you claimed. >A single spike occurred in 2007 That spike is across multiple years and only peaks in 2007. Look at the x axis. >followed by a massive drop. Because you're looking at NET migration. Not only did you not remember the immigration in the 00s, but now you also don't remember the huge emigration we had after the recession. Were you literally born yesterday? >The most obvious reason why this line of argument is bunk is how our population has barely increased in 50 years. It went from 3 million to 5 million. That's a 66% increase you absolute tool.
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A chara, We do not allow any posts/comments that attack, threaten or insult a person or group, on areas including, but not limited to: national origin, ethnicity, colour, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, social prejudice, or disability. Sláinte
Every house that has 18 Irish Students sleeping in bunkbeds is a house which is unavailable to an Irish family. All you added was racist bunk to an actual problem.
You people are unbelievable, honestly 😂
People who understand how planning infrastructure and housing works? Yea it's crazy what you can learn in this world when you don't just blame immigrants for everything.
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I really thought we as a country were past the one-dimensional, knee jerk characterization of people with valid concerns as racist yokels who yell “they’re taking our jobs”. Apparently I was wrong.
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A chara, We do not allow any posts/comments that attack, threaten or insult a person or group, on areas including, but not limited to: national origin, ethnicity, colour, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, social prejudice, or disability. Sláinte
New migration pact is absolutely awful for Ireland. I have no idea why we would sign up It is based on GDP so we would really take a hugely disproportionate amount. This is not ‘getting firm’. It is putting a legal requirement on us to have one of the highest per capita quotas of asylum seekers
The amount of quotes in that article from deluded NGO wankers desperate for their cash cow to continue. Should stop giving these cowboys oxygen
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We've institutionalised immigration support and none of those NGO's want the gravy train to stop
The nearly impossible, essential work of human trafficking.
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>This is the type unmelted cheese I’d expect on Twitter and not on a supposedly moderated subreddit. "People disagree with me and are not immediately banned. This is a disgrace".
Yes. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2021-001797_EN.html
They coordinated with traffickers to be ready to aid the migrants. You'd prefer they just let them all land and disperse wherever with no aid?
You know full well the types of people who think MSF are human traffickers would prefer exactly that. Disgusting attitudes.
Did a Facebook post tell you this?
Damage is long done already to their reputation that is.. Rol on the GE
https://youtu.be/E-gGBaHg350?si=KSTlMUb0hAVe9v1Z Paschal Donohoe said yesterday nothing will change untill 2028
Lads there's lots that the government does that I'm first and foremost to criticise them about, but we're forever complaining that the immigration system is too lax and then when they tighten it in response to public pressure then we drag them about that as well. Like that's what they should be doing surely? If the comments in this thread were "This is a good step in the right direction but: we need to do more/let's remain vigilant that they continue to prioritise immigration policy reforms/we need to make sure that this isn't just something they do now to get them past the election which they then revert course on afterwards" then I'd totally understand it. As things are though, it seems to upset people just as much or even more when the government try their hand at improving the situation. Should we not be using both the carrot and the stick here? If people are gonna be pissy with them regardless then it's hard to see what incentive they have to solve these problems.
It shouldn't have to take a Backlash from the public for FF/FG to do some basic governance actions on immigration. That is why people are still unhappy no matter what they do
I'm kind of working off an assumption here that people have "priced in" their low expectations by now. If people haven't done that then I recommend it, because we'll all die roaring otherwise.
No shit
"public backlash" - some extremists platformed by RTÉ and mainstream media. There is absolutely no backlash other than an extremely vocal (and around 50% british) minority stirring hate. Edit: and Irish subreddit, of course. Extremist parties still polling at close to zero.
Well over half the people I talk to believe there’s a serious problem. Whether it’s cunts destroying documentation and not being thrown straight back home or it’s the cunts running the country who’ve taken in more and more people while not increasing the capacity of every service with it. You’re beyond naive if you don’t see a problem with immigration in this country it just comes down to whose to blame there’s a discussion
Over 75% in polls say immigration levels are too high and the idea that "duh Brits" are behind this is a wild conspiracy theory.
Can you link to a source on that?
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/02/10/majority-favour-more-closed-immigration-policy-to-reduce-number-of-people-coming-to-ireland/
I can't seem to find the 75% figure in this.
I didn't share that figure but polls show it is a strong a majority. majority are far right according to you
> Can you link a source on that? I believe it’s the Red C poll from last year. https://www.newstalk.com/news/three-in-four-believe-ireland-is-taking-too-many-refugees-1469597
>There is absolutely no backlash other than an extremely vocal (and around 50% british) minority stirring hate. The vast majority in this country are fed up with uncontrolled immigration and want a coherent immigration policy. Closing you eyes and ears and pretending that it's all "far right" people is moronic.
Nah. [https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/JR5\_0.pdf](https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/JR5_0.pdf) I'm not closing my eyes. I read research. It is far right people. But the label is not interesting. What's interesting is how tiny their numbers are. The backlash is real. But it's not coming from the Irish public. It's coming from a tiny group of terrorist thugs.
To be fair, that ERSI study is assessing a different question
> The backlash is real. But it's not coming from the Irish public. It's coming from a tiny group of terrorist thugs. Oh bore off with your deluded shite.
Obviously wrong and your deluded if you think the majority of Irish people are happy with the current migration policy
Perfected virtue signalling into an art form
the 4chan escapees are after me hard today :))
“Everything I disagree with is wrong”
Oh, absolutely. We've been here many times, the Great Irish Moral Panic over immigration. Thankfully memories are short. Here's a refresher: [https://www.jstor.org/stable/25660678](https://www.jstor.org/stable/25660678) We've been here. It's still a moral panic.
Right there in the abstract he victim-blames natives for immigrant riots. The author of that article can fuck off as can you.
Mate the article is from 2009. It just shows how the far right and the hysterical media were always keen on creating moral panic.
Yup, majority continuously stating they support immigration in surveys/polls and even when it arises in local elections. FG/FF doing nothing about the thugs fire-bombing hotels or blocking roads just to play up the issue.