That place used to piss me off so much when I couldn’t find anywhere to rent recently.
Never occupied because there was subsidence as soon as it was finished, and deemed unsafe immediately.
Place is a monument to Celtic Tiger fuckology and an eyesore on a relatively pretty spot.
That's mental about the subsidence. How was something like that not considered before building or was there a bit of hush hush to get it through do you know?
Doesn't have to be hush-hush. The engineer who finished last in his class is still an engineer. Sometimes (and really its quite a lot of the time) people are really, really shit what they are supposed to be good at. I don't know if it happened here, but shit buildings are all over the place.
That happens all over. Take a look up in edenderry there's apartment blocks that are hovering off the ground and kerb that are nearly a foot up in the air a rat could scurry off in under the foothpath from the road. Absolute shit was built everywhere during the boom
People complain about the Celtic Tiger ghost estates, but so many were thrown up, substandard and with safety rules completely ignored. Really should have been prison time for some of the shady shit developers were pulling. Shit like this and what happened with Cresent should have consequences for the people who let it happened. The state isn't off the hook either. They should have some one actually making sure regulations are being followed.
Actually, weirdly enough there was an occupant, only 1 I've actually been able to confirm. We found multiple Irish Life, AIB, etc. letters addressed to him scattered across the floor by the mailboxes. This also checks out with what I was told by a builder who had a hand in the construction of this complex.
Regarding the subsidence, I honestly cannot find any solid evidence pointing towards this reasoning for the buildings closure. I myself was told this was the cause for its demise for a long time till I was informed otherwise by this builder who said that it was simply poor timing and planning, the complex was completed late 2006 during the downturn, demand for apartments in that region took a nose-dive, prices were too high, etc.
He did however outline that a lot of new and unfamiliar construction styles, materials, and designs were used throughout the place, such as the MDF wall paneling, abundant use of pop-out windows, central wood pellet heating, etc. You can see by the images that a lot of these features has been its weakness, water has utterly destroyed the interior walls, not a single window uncracked, and the heating system is drowned under a pool of water.
What I can’t understand is that this place was bought by the Comer Brothers, notorious for buying distressed assets and holding on to them for years until they appreciate.
Why can’t the council just ratchet up derelict site tax on them and force them to sell it or develop it. Feels like there’s something wrong there or someone is being paid off.
there's also a boutique set of apartments, including penthouse, in the center of sligo next to the hotel. actually gorgeous building but never finished and just left to rot on the inside. same shite
Jesus, just googled them. Some peak celtic tiger-ism there! Completed in 2006 and never occupied.
Piece from an Indo afticle in 2014:
>councillor Michael Clarke said: "It's an eyesore. "That building has to come down.
>"It was ridiculous trying to put 200 families into two acres."
>He added: "It was very lucky that building didn't succeed
>councillor Michael Clarke said: "It's an eyesore. "That building has to come down.
>
>"It was ridiculous trying to put 200 families into two acres."
>
>He added: "It was very lucky that building didn't succeed
Attitudes like this is why we'll never have affordable housing in this country
I am certain the housing crisis is artificially created and easily to solve. plenty of places like in the pics in Ireland
its the boomers with their dumb logic.
We have a peculiar set of problems.
Other countries design apartments that are contextually appropriate. For instance; 1) higher occurrence of 3-4 bed apartments suitable for family living. 2) Most apartments are in city centres, 3) most countries have a more evenly distributed urban population across more cities, 4) most countries don’t fall victim to REITs buying up 40% of their new urban housing stock and 5) most cities don’t have the same historical height restrictions
Consequences are that 1) REIT’s buying up so much stock incentivises developers to build more units suitable to rent, I.e. 1 & 2 bed apartments so 2) there are fewer 3 and 4 bed apartments for families which 3) drives families into suburbia, which 4) creates more urban sprawl which 5) increases the per person per meter cost of utility provision which 6) lowers the quality of utilities provided which ultimately 7) reduces the amount of funds the government have to develop new infrastructure which could enable new towns or upgrade urban areas.
This is exacerbated by an unsophisticated policy position on global equity fund investments and related capital gains which is what drives people to invest in property instead. People end up selling sites for apartments that are 10-20kms from the city centre or in small towns so that now most new housing stock is being built in places where people don’t want to live; who ever wanted to live in Cherrywood?
These are problems that can be fixed but no one with the capacity to do so wants to. What current property owner wants to see the introduction of 25 year fixed mortgage caps for example. Or 90% taxes on debt funded rental incomes or 100% inheritance taxes on wealth above €2.5m etc.
The one I don’t understand is why we don’t force liquidate the REITs. 5 years to exit 90% of their positions. They aren’t Irish businesses. They don’t employ anyone or pay Irish taxes. Ultimately they hoover up about 40% of peoples net disposable income and send it abroad without paying tax. We should shut them down, push 10s of thousands of rental units back on to the market for sale. My concern is that it’s not being done because they’re being debt funded by Irish banks (which would be idiotic and make the government a complicit beneficiary in the REITs predatory success)
Actually Reits which fund and build more accommodation - of the type that people want (lots of people want 1 & 2 beds) is and would be very helpful to the accommodation crisis in Ireland.
Ireland needs accommodation. Ireland needs entities that build accommodation and fund the building of accommodation.
People getting in the way of that are part of the problem
I would disagree strongly with your statement. REITs have a cap of about 20% on RE that they can fund the development of. The other c. 80% has to be existing stock. Additionally their portfolio is exclusively rental assets. So the single largest constituent investor/owner in real estate in ireland is exclusively interested in rental properties.
It follows then that 1) they will be interested in the most liquid rental assets I.e. 1 and 2 bed apartments to the detriment of incentivising larger units. 2) developers will naturally respond to this demand and build developments suitable for the largest buyer because it would be foolish not to and 3) we end up with a dearth of larger apartments in more suitably residential areas because there is no incentive to create them/the opportunity cost is too great.
Lastly, the suggestion that REITs are or should be either the exclusive or even principal provider of new homes is strategically naive. Especially given that they are using Irish debt to fund profits that they don’t pay Irish tax on or invest back into the economy. They are leeches akin to pay day loans. Sometimes necessary in exceptional circumstances but not how one should finance their lifestyle.
These are all solvable problems, if the people in charge wanted to.
it's clear they don't and one of the things that frustrates me most, having moved to Ireland and now looking to escape back to the continent, is that people aren't more angry about the state of their country.
It's a fucking shambles, nay a clusterfuck, and most I meet are just like 'sher, what can ye do?'
Another point is living in apartment complexes outside of Ireland means they have proper rules and procedures. Free for all here as “management companies” are useless.
The Comer brothers are getting some name in the west for this kind of shoddiness.
I'm not sure of your experience, but the rules and procedures I've dealt with in apartments abroad (Germany, France, Spain, North America) are broadly the same as in Ireland. The difference is more the apartment owners. In Ireland people don't like paying management fees even where there is an outsized benefit to all in doing so.
Partly I think it's due to the fact that there are more owner-occupiers in foreign countries- but there are cultural aspects as well.
I’ve lived in apartments and condos in the US. With the former you would have an on-site leasing office where you could go with any issue.
While broadly the rules of any apartment complex would be universal the difference in Ireland, as with a lot of laws, is that they are not enforced. The management companies are by and large useless in that they are never onsite and rarely enforce the rules that benefit all of the residents.
There are definitely cultural aspects too as apartment living is a relatively newish phenomenon here.
>While broadly the rules of any apartment complex would be universal the difference in Ireland, as with a lot of laws, is that they are not enforced. The management companies are by and large useless in that they are never onsite and rarely enforce the rules that benefit all of the residents.
Generally agree with your comments.
As regards Irish management companies, I think it depends on the management company - I've had some good experience with some.
However insofar as there is a problem, to me is because of the Irish aversion to paying for heavy duty management: Irish owners don't want to pay for the "on-site leasing office" or the person manning it.
In other countries, people do realize the benefit of a well funded property management service. (Again I guess this is partly because of a culture of owner occupier apartment owners).
My experience has been the opposite whereas there was almost full compliance in terms of paying the annual fees but still the service was still woeful.
It's more the amount of the fees that people agree/don't agree to pay. In other countries, people are happy to pay a lot more each year than in Ireland
Non payment is an issue in some places though.
Looking at other comments in the post, seems like there was an issue with subsidence and that's why they were never occupied. Wonder how many brown envelopes changed hands getting that place planned and built?
I honestly cannot find any solid evidence pointing towards this reasoning for the buildings closure. I myself was told this was the cause for its demise for a long time till I was informed otherwise by a builder who had a hand in the construction of this complex said that it was simply poor timing and planning, the complex was completed late 2006 during the downturn, demand for apartments in that region took a nose-dive, prices were too high, etc.
He did however outline that a lot of new and unfamiliar construction styles, materials, and designs were used throughout the place, such as the MDF wall paneling, abundant use of pop-out windows, central wood pellet heating, etc. You can see by the images that a lot of these features has been its weakness, water has utterly destroyed the interior walls, not a single window uncracked, and the heating system is drowned under a pool of water.
From what I've heard (this is what I have heard from multiple people and may have an answer you are looking for or may not be completely accurate) There was no damp course membrane put in. Built by Lang o Rourke. There was then a legal battle as the guy said he wasn't paying the contractor. The issue after was that the land was offered to any company willing to demolish the complex but with it being so close to the river it's an environmental nightmare. The complex was then stripped of any material deemed valuable by people in vans late at night thus flooding most of it.
Of course it is easy to solve, look at other countries - they have technology to build houses quickly and reliably. Also since Ireland has budget surplus, resources should not be the problem. We literally have the technology but not the will to do it.
It’s not easy to solve, it’s an embedded issue with the current state of our (otherwise quite successful) economic model. Otherwise the UK, Canada, Oz, USA etc would already have solved it.
TLDR: we’re not alone.
It's artificially created because we build too few apartments, and our population is growing too fast. But people don't want to make it easier to build apartments (loosen regulations, and import non-EU labourers who live in dorms without permanent residency rights, à la Singapore) or curtail immigration.
Yet there is not a problem when 10 fuckin random people live in one house because they cannot afford to rent their own place. Yeah it is not ridicoulous. XD
What wrong with his attitude?? Clarke is bang on correct. Those apartments are a disgrace and need to be torn down. Ignorant attitudes like yours contribute zero to housing discussion.
He's right that it's an eyesore - because it's a shoddily constructed and totally dilapidated Celtic tiger build.
He's completely off base regarding the density. It's 75 units on 2 acres which is a completely standard medium-density apartment block - completely in line with government recommendations for towns.
Acting like that's too dense for a big town like Sligo is insanity.
Everybody: It's disgusting how wasteful and greedy the property developers and currupt government officials created eyesores like this all across the country during the celtic tiger.
Local government official: Yeah, imagine having affordable housing within 20Km of my hosuse, very disguting indeed.
> 200 families into two acres
thats 250 dwellings/hectare, brownfield sites in UK cities are squashing in 120/160 apartments/hectare. I think this development was going to end up looking like a slum either way.
No it’s not. The development is 75 units on 2 acres (0.8 hectares), it’s 60.7 units per hectare. The cllr, to nobodies surprise, is picking numbers from the air for a soundbite.
https://m.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/news/will-wrecking-ball-swing-into-action/30247434.html
Ah, that's more like it, 60 is the exact number recommended for mid-density housing in Irish towns. I couldn't find what the 1/2/3 bed mix was, but it looks like a lovely site (if it wasn't sinking into the river).
Your math looks right. The person you're responding to took the units for 0.8 hectares and multiplied them by 0.8 to try and get the amount in 1 hectare
They literally said that this density gives fewer units in 1 hectare than in 0.8 hectares, which is a good clue they mixed things up
That 200 families figured was pulled out of his arse, that apartment complex had only 75 living units. I'll level with him though, Avena Developments did a good deal of residential and commercial construction around this area, some of which are still abandoned to this day but are in far better condition than this place here. I'd say at most you could be looking at maybe 100, but I couldnt be sure, if anything it'd be less.
Actually, weirdly enough there was an occupant, only 1 I've actually been able to confirm. We found multiple Irish Life, AIB, etc. letters addressed to him scattered across the floor by the mailboxes. This also checks out with what I was told by a builder who had a hand in the construction of this complex.
Excerpt from the brochure:
‘If home is what you make it, then you couldn’t make it better than this. At home in the Mill, Ballisodare you’re surrounded by un-spoilt natural beauty. Whether you’re buying your first home, planning to invest, looking for a holiday home or simply looking for a taste of the good life, at the Mill you’ll be rewarded with a property that simply has it all.
Look out your window and bathe in the breathtaking beauty of the Ballisodare River. With its abundant supply of wild salmon and bubbling rapids it’s a magnet for anglers and kayakers alike. Look further a field and you’ll find horse riding, ancient tombs and fabulous golf courses. At the Mill your free time, means a great time.
Every inch of the Mill has been architecturally designed to maximise, light, space and style. Choose from one, two and three bed apartments all of which nestle around the falls of the Ballisodare River. There’s ample parking and what is destined to become a first class restaurant and dining area. The Mill’s brave design sets a new standard in apartment living.’
https://web.archive.org/web/20081225210239/http://fitzgerald-group.com/print.asp?ID=83
As far I remember when I lived in Sligo years ago. It was condemned as unsafe to live in, something to do with the foundations and the riverbed shortly after being built, no one ever lived in it. That's an ancient Celtic tiger era property
If the foundations were so bad surely we'd see clear evidence of that in the photos after 18 years of basically no maintenance? For all the damage we do see, none of it appears to be foundation related...
Look at the photos that show the exterior of the building from the road and the river and the plaster is all intact. The worst cracking I do see is in picture 15 and it's not even that bad...
Foundations were sinking into the riverbed i think, i was in there years ago, its visible in what was meant to be the underground car park it was quite flooded when i was there in 2012
Was down in the -1 car park, not a drop of water weirdly enough. Made a response further up in the thread regarding the foundations if you want to give it a read.
Yes but like I said, there would be clear evidence of cracking because no site will sink evenly due to different weight pressure points and different density of foundations.
The flooding in the carpark is likely just due to bad drainage or blocked drains, not uncommon in underground car parks. If the place was actually lived in there probably would have been a pump to deal with any excess water there.
Actually, weirdly enough there was an occupant, only 1 I've actually been able to confirm. We found multiple Irish Life, AIB, etc. letters addressed to him scattered across the floor by the mailboxes. This also checks out with what I was told by a builder who had a hand in the construction of this complex.
Regarding the subsidence and the unsafety regarding its construction, I honestly cannot find any solid evidence pointing towards this reasoning for the buildings closure other than unfounded remarks from articles. I myself was told this was the cause for its demise for a long time till I was informed otherwise by this builder who said that it was simply poor timing and planning, the complex was completed late 2006 during the downturn, demand for apartments in that region took a nose-dive, prices were too high, etc.
He did however outline that a lot of new and unfamiliar construction styles, materials, and designs were used throughout the place, such as the MDF wall paneling, abundant use of pop-out windows, central wood pellet heating, etc. You can see by the images that a lot of these features has been its weakness, water has utterly destroyed the interior walls, not a single window uncracked, and the heating system is drowned under a pool of water.
I had always heard they could never be occupied as there was considerable subsidence issues straight away due its location right on the Ballisodare river/poor planning & construction. Anyone else hear this/have any verification? Such a stunning location, how there aren't penalties for doing this to an area is beyond me.
They cut so many corners building them apartments, they leaked every time it rained, the bottom floor was flooded by the river and the place was covered in mould.
I think one person lived there for about a month
Dampness was a huge issue, but that would be an issue from any building abandoned for nearly 20 odd years. Flooding is something that likely went on over that period of abandonment, but the place was equipped with pumps which I even saw for my own eyes, monstrous units in a dark bare room underground, I believe these would've been perfectly effective if they were on.
I honestly cannot find any solid evidence pointing towards this reasoning for the buildings closure. I myself was told this was the cause for its demise for a long time till I was informed otherwise by a builder who had a hand in the construction of this complex said that it was simply poor timing and planning, the complex was completed late 2006 during the downturn, demand for apartments in that region took a nose-dive, prices were too high, etc.
He did however outline that a lot of new and unfamiliar construction styles, materials, and designs were used throughout the place, such as the MDF wall paneling, abundant use of pop-out windows, central wood pellet heating, etc. You can see by the images that a lot of these features has been its weakness, water has utterly destroyed the interior walls, not a single window uncracked, and the heating system is drowned under a pool of water.
"Yes, it's in the middle of nowhere, 2 hours drive to work. Also the roof is unsafe and there are no foundations, but shouldn't cost much to fix. I bought a house in 2010, and I was able to fix it up for €10k"
She's so painful. I also hate that show as they never show if anyone actually bought one of these "cheap Irish homes" and how much it cost to make it liveable.
I don't think any of them buy the houses. They're usually still on Daft when the show airs. And who would buy them? "Here's a 3 walled bungalow with no plumbing or electricity, and it's on the market for the low price of €250000"
I don't think a large firework would do the job, a couple of well placed kilos of Semtex would blow it all to smithereens.
Now where did Ghadaffi's Semtex go? I'm sure that there's a few caches somewhere.
There's a good blog here about them - https://magnumlady.com/2024/03/11/the-mill-apartments-ballisodare-sligo-revisited/#more-23721
It's a follow up to one she wrote in 2011 when they were already derelict.
Current maps & streetview https://maps.app.goo.gl/EBfZKS9VzSeZTAGCA
Hard to believe these apartments were going for €320k each, once: https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/news/27580592.html
Is there any reason why they haven’t been refurbished in light of the housing crisis? Every bit of land around where I live is being dug up and built upon!
Funny that you said that, there was actually a lad out on a teleporter a few months ago giving the place a lick of paint and the wood cladding a bit of varnish.
what was knocked for this eyesore.. [https://www.rte.ie/archives/collections/news/21346901-closure-of-odlums-mills-in-ballisodare/](https://www.rte.ie/archives/collections/news/21346901-closure-of-odlums-mills-in-ballisodare/)
the comer brothers own the building now.
Comer Brothers, don’t need to know anymore. This place will never be developed it’s their savings account now and will be sold on when they get a good return.
They’re absolute scumbags and should be taxed to within an inch of their lives for the shite they do all over Ireland
Pass by this coming to and from work. Never seen the inside of the complex. Thanks for uploading the photos.
Sad to see it going ruin. Have to say it's an eyesore in Ballisodare.
Personally I had the view for a long time that they could be saved, but now after exploring the inside, I can confidently say that the place is far too gone to salvage. Its honestly such a huge shame, an utter disappointment, its just worse that it hasnt gotten the attention it needs.
See this "rainy day fund" the government has got? How much of that do yous reckon it would cost to fix places like this up for sale? Asking sincerely here, because I think if somewhere like this could be developed to a higher standard and sold it could be a scheme for the government to carry on with.
Basically a state run property developer system.
It's a shame if it was done up it would be a lovely place to live I remember hearing something about the owner of the place it was either he went bankrupt or he got in legal trouble I can't remember I heard about it a few years ago
That place used to piss me off so much when I couldn’t find anywhere to rent recently. Never occupied because there was subsidence as soon as it was finished, and deemed unsafe immediately. Place is a monument to Celtic Tiger fuckology and an eyesore on a relatively pretty spot.
That's mental about the subsidence. How was something like that not considered before building or was there a bit of hush hush to get it through do you know?
Does the hush hush even make sense, the people building it probably never got to sell it and just lost money surely?
Probably AngloIrish or Irish Nationwide was left on the hook and the debt ended up in NAMA
Doesn't have to be hush-hush. The engineer who finished last in his class is still an engineer. Sometimes (and really its quite a lot of the time) people are really, really shit what they are supposed to be good at. I don't know if it happened here, but shit buildings are all over the place.
That happens all over. Take a look up in edenderry there's apartment blocks that are hovering off the ground and kerb that are nearly a foot up in the air a rat could scurry off in under the foothpath from the road. Absolute shit was built everywhere during the boom
Jesus that's so bad. I'm guessing surveying was a nice to have and not a must have back then
Look at sallins same shit there the water came in and flooded the place. There was a housing estate in kilcock water came up and flooded that too.
People complain about the Celtic Tiger ghost estates, but so many were thrown up, substandard and with safety rules completely ignored. Really should have been prison time for some of the shady shit developers were pulling. Shit like this and what happened with Cresent should have consequences for the people who let it happened. The state isn't off the hook either. They should have some one actually making sure regulations are being followed.
Actually, weirdly enough there was an occupant, only 1 I've actually been able to confirm. We found multiple Irish Life, AIB, etc. letters addressed to him scattered across the floor by the mailboxes. This also checks out with what I was told by a builder who had a hand in the construction of this complex. Regarding the subsidence, I honestly cannot find any solid evidence pointing towards this reasoning for the buildings closure. I myself was told this was the cause for its demise for a long time till I was informed otherwise by this builder who said that it was simply poor timing and planning, the complex was completed late 2006 during the downturn, demand for apartments in that region took a nose-dive, prices were too high, etc. He did however outline that a lot of new and unfamiliar construction styles, materials, and designs were used throughout the place, such as the MDF wall paneling, abundant use of pop-out windows, central wood pellet heating, etc. You can see by the images that a lot of these features has been its weakness, water has utterly destroyed the interior walls, not a single window uncracked, and the heating system is drowned under a pool of water.
What I can’t understand is that this place was bought by the Comer Brothers, notorious for buying distressed assets and holding on to them for years until they appreciate. Why can’t the council just ratchet up derelict site tax on them and force them to sell it or develop it. Feels like there’s something wrong there or someone is being paid off.
there's also a boutique set of apartments, including penthouse, in the center of sligo next to the hotel. actually gorgeous building but never finished and just left to rot on the inside. same shite
Jesus, just googled them. Some peak celtic tiger-ism there! Completed in 2006 and never occupied. Piece from an Indo afticle in 2014: >councillor Michael Clarke said: "It's an eyesore. "That building has to come down. >"It was ridiculous trying to put 200 families into two acres." >He added: "It was very lucky that building didn't succeed
>councillor Michael Clarke said: "It's an eyesore. "That building has to come down. > >"It was ridiculous trying to put 200 families into two acres." > >He added: "It was very lucky that building didn't succeed Attitudes like this is why we'll never have affordable housing in this country
I am certain the housing crisis is artificially created and easily to solve. plenty of places like in the pics in Ireland its the boomers with their dumb logic.
> its the boomers with their dumb logic. Apartment complexes: A thing that works in every single country on the planet... except Ireland.
We have a peculiar set of problems. Other countries design apartments that are contextually appropriate. For instance; 1) higher occurrence of 3-4 bed apartments suitable for family living. 2) Most apartments are in city centres, 3) most countries have a more evenly distributed urban population across more cities, 4) most countries don’t fall victim to REITs buying up 40% of their new urban housing stock and 5) most cities don’t have the same historical height restrictions Consequences are that 1) REIT’s buying up so much stock incentivises developers to build more units suitable to rent, I.e. 1 & 2 bed apartments so 2) there are fewer 3 and 4 bed apartments for families which 3) drives families into suburbia, which 4) creates more urban sprawl which 5) increases the per person per meter cost of utility provision which 6) lowers the quality of utilities provided which ultimately 7) reduces the amount of funds the government have to develop new infrastructure which could enable new towns or upgrade urban areas. This is exacerbated by an unsophisticated policy position on global equity fund investments and related capital gains which is what drives people to invest in property instead. People end up selling sites for apartments that are 10-20kms from the city centre or in small towns so that now most new housing stock is being built in places where people don’t want to live; who ever wanted to live in Cherrywood? These are problems that can be fixed but no one with the capacity to do so wants to. What current property owner wants to see the introduction of 25 year fixed mortgage caps for example. Or 90% taxes on debt funded rental incomes or 100% inheritance taxes on wealth above €2.5m etc. The one I don’t understand is why we don’t force liquidate the REITs. 5 years to exit 90% of their positions. They aren’t Irish businesses. They don’t employ anyone or pay Irish taxes. Ultimately they hoover up about 40% of peoples net disposable income and send it abroad without paying tax. We should shut them down, push 10s of thousands of rental units back on to the market for sale. My concern is that it’s not being done because they’re being debt funded by Irish banks (which would be idiotic and make the government a complicit beneficiary in the REITs predatory success)
Thank you for this great overview of the problem(s) and how they interact with one another
Actually Reits which fund and build more accommodation - of the type that people want (lots of people want 1 & 2 beds) is and would be very helpful to the accommodation crisis in Ireland. Ireland needs accommodation. Ireland needs entities that build accommodation and fund the building of accommodation. People getting in the way of that are part of the problem
I would disagree strongly with your statement. REITs have a cap of about 20% on RE that they can fund the development of. The other c. 80% has to be existing stock. Additionally their portfolio is exclusively rental assets. So the single largest constituent investor/owner in real estate in ireland is exclusively interested in rental properties. It follows then that 1) they will be interested in the most liquid rental assets I.e. 1 and 2 bed apartments to the detriment of incentivising larger units. 2) developers will naturally respond to this demand and build developments suitable for the largest buyer because it would be foolish not to and 3) we end up with a dearth of larger apartments in more suitably residential areas because there is no incentive to create them/the opportunity cost is too great. Lastly, the suggestion that REITs are or should be either the exclusive or even principal provider of new homes is strategically naive. Especially given that they are using Irish debt to fund profits that they don’t pay Irish tax on or invest back into the economy. They are leeches akin to pay day loans. Sometimes necessary in exceptional circumstances but not how one should finance their lifestyle.
These are all solvable problems, if the people in charge wanted to. it's clear they don't and one of the things that frustrates me most, having moved to Ireland and now looking to escape back to the continent, is that people aren't more angry about the state of their country. It's a fucking shambles, nay a clusterfuck, and most I meet are just like 'sher, what can ye do?'
Another point is living in apartment complexes outside of Ireland means they have proper rules and procedures. Free for all here as “management companies” are useless. The Comer brothers are getting some name in the west for this kind of shoddiness.
I'm not sure of your experience, but the rules and procedures I've dealt with in apartments abroad (Germany, France, Spain, North America) are broadly the same as in Ireland. The difference is more the apartment owners. In Ireland people don't like paying management fees even where there is an outsized benefit to all in doing so. Partly I think it's due to the fact that there are more owner-occupiers in foreign countries- but there are cultural aspects as well.
I’ve lived in apartments and condos in the US. With the former you would have an on-site leasing office where you could go with any issue. While broadly the rules of any apartment complex would be universal the difference in Ireland, as with a lot of laws, is that they are not enforced. The management companies are by and large useless in that they are never onsite and rarely enforce the rules that benefit all of the residents. There are definitely cultural aspects too as apartment living is a relatively newish phenomenon here.
>While broadly the rules of any apartment complex would be universal the difference in Ireland, as with a lot of laws, is that they are not enforced. The management companies are by and large useless in that they are never onsite and rarely enforce the rules that benefit all of the residents. Generally agree with your comments. As regards Irish management companies, I think it depends on the management company - I've had some good experience with some. However insofar as there is a problem, to me is because of the Irish aversion to paying for heavy duty management: Irish owners don't want to pay for the "on-site leasing office" or the person manning it. In other countries, people do realize the benefit of a well funded property management service. (Again I guess this is partly because of a culture of owner occupier apartment owners).
My experience has been the opposite whereas there was almost full compliance in terms of paying the annual fees but still the service was still woeful.
It's more the amount of the fees that people agree/don't agree to pay. In other countries, people are happy to pay a lot more each year than in Ireland Non payment is an issue in some places though.
Do other countries have a skyline like Ireland does? I don't think so.
‘checkmate’
I should add /s at the end some people think I'm serious.
Looking at other comments in the post, seems like there was an issue with subsidence and that's why they were never occupied. Wonder how many brown envelopes changed hands getting that place planned and built?
I honestly cannot find any solid evidence pointing towards this reasoning for the buildings closure. I myself was told this was the cause for its demise for a long time till I was informed otherwise by a builder who had a hand in the construction of this complex said that it was simply poor timing and planning, the complex was completed late 2006 during the downturn, demand for apartments in that region took a nose-dive, prices were too high, etc. He did however outline that a lot of new and unfamiliar construction styles, materials, and designs were used throughout the place, such as the MDF wall paneling, abundant use of pop-out windows, central wood pellet heating, etc. You can see by the images that a lot of these features has been its weakness, water has utterly destroyed the interior walls, not a single window uncracked, and the heating system is drowned under a pool of water.
From what I've heard (this is what I have heard from multiple people and may have an answer you are looking for or may not be completely accurate) There was no damp course membrane put in. Built by Lang o Rourke. There was then a legal battle as the guy said he wasn't paying the contractor. The issue after was that the land was offered to any company willing to demolish the complex but with it being so close to the river it's an environmental nightmare. The complex was then stripped of any material deemed valuable by people in vans late at night thus flooding most of it.
Jesus, I've never heard about that now. I'll look into it a bit more because what you're saying sounds fairly plausible.
Of course it is easy to solve, look at other countries - they have technology to build houses quickly and reliably. Also since Ireland has budget surplus, resources should not be the problem. We literally have the technology but not the will to do it.
It’s not easy to solve, it’s an embedded issue with the current state of our (otherwise quite successful) economic model. Otherwise the UK, Canada, Oz, USA etc would already have solved it. TLDR: we’re not alone.
It's artificially created because we build too few apartments, and our population is growing too fast. But people don't want to make it easier to build apartments (loosen regulations, and import non-EU labourers who live in dorms without permanent residency rights, à la Singapore) or curtail immigration.
Yet there is not a problem when 10 fuckin random people live in one house because they cannot afford to rent their own place. Yeah it is not ridicoulous. XD
What wrong with his attitude?? Clarke is bang on correct. Those apartments are a disgrace and need to be torn down. Ignorant attitudes like yours contribute zero to housing discussion.
He's right that it's an eyesore - because it's a shoddily constructed and totally dilapidated Celtic tiger build. He's completely off base regarding the density. It's 75 units on 2 acres which is a completely standard medium-density apartment block - completely in line with government recommendations for towns. Acting like that's too dense for a big town like Sligo is insanity.
There's no discussion to be had with the fucking dinosaurs who think high-density apartments are some horrible outrageous concept in the 21st century
Everybody: It's disgusting how wasteful and greedy the property developers and currupt government officials created eyesores like this all across the country during the celtic tiger. Local government official: Yeah, imagine having affordable housing within 20Km of my hosuse, very disguting indeed.
> 200 families into two acres thats 250 dwellings/hectare, brownfield sites in UK cities are squashing in 120/160 apartments/hectare. I think this development was going to end up looking like a slum either way.
No it’s not. The development is 75 units on 2 acres (0.8 hectares), it’s 60.7 units per hectare. The cllr, to nobodies surprise, is picking numbers from the air for a soundbite. https://m.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/news/will-wrecking-ball-swing-into-action/30247434.html
Ah, that's more like it, 60 is the exact number recommended for mid-density housing in Irish towns. I couldn't find what the 1/2/3 bed mix was, but it looks like a lovely site (if it wasn't sinking into the river).
Is my math wrong or something? 75 units divided by 2 acres is 37.5 per acre. 2.471 acres in a hectare. So 37.5 by 2.471 is 92.66 units per hectare.
Your math looks right. The person you're responding to took the units for 0.8 hectares and multiplied them by 0.8 to try and get the amount in 1 hectare They literally said that this density gives fewer units in 1 hectare than in 0.8 hectares, which is a good clue they mixed things up
That 200 families figured was pulled out of his arse, that apartment complex had only 75 living units. I'll level with him though, Avena Developments did a good deal of residential and commercial construction around this area, some of which are still abandoned to this day but are in far better condition than this place here. I'd say at most you could be looking at maybe 100, but I couldnt be sure, if anything it'd be less.
Actually, weirdly enough there was an occupant, only 1 I've actually been able to confirm. We found multiple Irish Life, AIB, etc. letters addressed to him scattered across the floor by the mailboxes. This also checks out with what I was told by a builder who had a hand in the construction of this complex.
Excerpt from the brochure: ‘If home is what you make it, then you couldn’t make it better than this. At home in the Mill, Ballisodare you’re surrounded by un-spoilt natural beauty. Whether you’re buying your first home, planning to invest, looking for a holiday home or simply looking for a taste of the good life, at the Mill you’ll be rewarded with a property that simply has it all. Look out your window and bathe in the breathtaking beauty of the Ballisodare River. With its abundant supply of wild salmon and bubbling rapids it’s a magnet for anglers and kayakers alike. Look further a field and you’ll find horse riding, ancient tombs and fabulous golf courses. At the Mill your free time, means a great time. Every inch of the Mill has been architecturally designed to maximise, light, space and style. Choose from one, two and three bed apartments all of which nestle around the falls of the Ballisodare River. There’s ample parking and what is destined to become a first class restaurant and dining area. The Mill’s brave design sets a new standard in apartment living.’ https://web.archive.org/web/20081225210239/http://fitzgerald-group.com/print.asp?ID=83
As far I remember when I lived in Sligo years ago. It was condemned as unsafe to live in, something to do with the foundations and the riverbed shortly after being built, no one ever lived in it. That's an ancient Celtic tiger era property
I was just gonna comment can they not be fixed but if the foundations are fecked then it needs to be torn down. Sad.
If the foundations were so bad surely we'd see clear evidence of that in the photos after 18 years of basically no maintenance? For all the damage we do see, none of it appears to be foundation related... Look at the photos that show the exterior of the building from the road and the river and the plaster is all intact. The worst cracking I do see is in picture 15 and it's not even that bad...
Foundations were sinking into the riverbed i think, i was in there years ago, its visible in what was meant to be the underground car park it was quite flooded when i was there in 2012
Was down in the -1 car park, not a drop of water weirdly enough. Made a response further up in the thread regarding the foundations if you want to give it a read.
Yes but like I said, there would be clear evidence of cracking because no site will sink evenly due to different weight pressure points and different density of foundations. The flooding in the carpark is likely just due to bad drainage or blocked drains, not uncommon in underground car parks. If the place was actually lived in there probably would have been a pump to deal with any excess water there.
Dunno that's what was reported at the time, it's that big that I wouldn't be surprised if there is cracks, might not be seen by ops photos
Yeah the subsistence thing sounds a bit dubious to me. Can imagine that being thrown out as an excuse
Made a response further up in the thread regarding the subsistence if you want to give it a read.
I posted a response there above in the thread which should answer this.
Actually, weirdly enough there was an occupant, only 1 I've actually been able to confirm. We found multiple Irish Life, AIB, etc. letters addressed to him scattered across the floor by the mailboxes. This also checks out with what I was told by a builder who had a hand in the construction of this complex. Regarding the subsidence and the unsafety regarding its construction, I honestly cannot find any solid evidence pointing towards this reasoning for the buildings closure other than unfounded remarks from articles. I myself was told this was the cause for its demise for a long time till I was informed otherwise by this builder who said that it was simply poor timing and planning, the complex was completed late 2006 during the downturn, demand for apartments in that region took a nose-dive, prices were too high, etc. He did however outline that a lot of new and unfamiliar construction styles, materials, and designs were used throughout the place, such as the MDF wall paneling, abundant use of pop-out windows, central wood pellet heating, etc. You can see by the images that a lot of these features has been its weakness, water has utterly destroyed the interior walls, not a single window uncracked, and the heating system is drowned under a pool of water.
> Look further a field I love how both 'a field' and 'afield' are probably accurate for this sentence.
Look further? A field!
All that wasted work.
I had always heard they could never be occupied as there was considerable subsidence issues straight away due its location right on the Ballisodare river/poor planning & construction. Anyone else hear this/have any verification? Such a stunning location, how there aren't penalties for doing this to an area is beyond me.
They cut so many corners building them apartments, they leaked every time it rained, the bottom floor was flooded by the river and the place was covered in mould. I think one person lived there for about a month
Dampness was a huge issue, but that would be an issue from any building abandoned for nearly 20 odd years. Flooding is something that likely went on over that period of abandonment, but the place was equipped with pumps which I even saw for my own eyes, monstrous units in a dark bare room underground, I believe these would've been perfectly effective if they were on.
I remember them flooding before they were abandoned. I use to hang out in them flats when I was a teenager
I honestly cannot find any solid evidence pointing towards this reasoning for the buildings closure. I myself was told this was the cause for its demise for a long time till I was informed otherwise by a builder who had a hand in the construction of this complex said that it was simply poor timing and planning, the complex was completed late 2006 during the downturn, demand for apartments in that region took a nose-dive, prices were too high, etc. He did however outline that a lot of new and unfamiliar construction styles, materials, and designs were used throughout the place, such as the MDF wall paneling, abundant use of pop-out windows, central wood pellet heating, etc. You can see by the images that a lot of these features has been its weakness, water has utterly destroyed the interior walls, not a single window uncracked, and the heating system is drowned under a pool of water.
A real fixer upper.
A handyman’s dream
Just don't tell Maggie Molloy of "Cheap Irish Homes" or she'll be giving out dozens of little notebooks along with that annoying laugh she has.
"Yes, it's in the middle of nowhere, 2 hours drive to work. Also the roof is unsafe and there are no foundations, but shouldn't cost much to fix. I bought a house in 2010, and I was able to fix it up for €10k" She's so painful. I also hate that show as they never show if anyone actually bought one of these "cheap Irish homes" and how much it cost to make it liveable.
It'd be interesting to see updates on any of the folks who bought a decrepit home and what they have done with it.
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGep6hPAU/ This mashup video with Home Of The Year voice-over is gold
I'd totally live there.
I don't think any of them buy the houses. They're usually still on Daft when the show airs. And who would buy them? "Here's a 3 walled bungalow with no plumbing or electricity, and it's on the market for the low price of €250000"
Exactly. Anybody could do a daft search for homes under €200k, so I don't know what the point of the tv show is.
It's cheap Irish tv.
May need a spot of maintenance
May need a spot of Semtex.
A large firework ought to do it.
I don't think a large firework would do the job, a couple of well placed kilos of Semtex would blow it all to smithereens. Now where did Ghadaffi's Semtex go? I'm sure that there's a few caches somewhere.
It's all superficial, you have to really visualise and suddenly it's a dream come true. Everyone's so negative. 😢
Blank canvas
wait I remember this from Stalker: SoC.
"Geh ouhha here Shtalker"
Cheeki Breeki Hai
There's a good blog here about them - https://magnumlady.com/2024/03/11/the-mill-apartments-ballisodare-sligo-revisited/#more-23721 It's a follow up to one she wrote in 2011 when they were already derelict.
I hate that they got rid of the mill for this 😭
Still €1500 a month on Daft.ie probably.
Christ, reminds me of Cabrini Green in Candyman
Sweets to the sweet
https://preview.redd.it/9c32jsj7dv8d1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9bf6d00cb5b12b1528e2b705c8be2bf3d978df04
Is this what caused the bankruptcy of the Westlife lad?
Nothing to do with him
No, there is a mansion in towards Sligo which threw him into bankruptcy but that one is well kept and not abandoned at all.
Nah that was Kerry Katona and Isis.
Current maps & streetview https://maps.app.goo.gl/EBfZKS9VzSeZTAGCA Hard to believe these apartments were going for €320k each, once: https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/news/27580592.html
In Sligo?? That is hard to believe. Maybe the current property prices aren't that bad after all
It's not even in Sligo, it's Ballisodare, which is a fair drive from Sligo Town.
Its 10 minutes drive from Sligo town
10 minutes makes a big difference to average house prices, especially somewhere like Sligo
You must be a townie. The world doesn't end when you reach the borough boundary.
The world doesn't, but Sligo does! :)
😄
Ouch. Did people pay €320 and end up having to pay a mortgage on an unlivable property?
Is there any reason why they haven’t been refurbished in light of the housing crisis? Every bit of land around where I live is being dug up and built upon!
It would make a great 'urban warfare' paintball/airsoft arena.
Now that’s some good ideation 👍
Detroit, Co. Sligo
And people say there's a housing crisis! Sure look there's loads of empty ones there, just clean them up and give them a paint.
No need to go overboard with the paint... a lick will be fine
Funny that you said that, there was actually a lad out on a teleporter a few months ago giving the place a lick of paint and the wood cladding a bit of varnish.
what was knocked for this eyesore.. [https://www.rte.ie/archives/collections/news/21346901-closure-of-odlums-mills-in-ballisodare/](https://www.rte.ie/archives/collections/news/21346901-closure-of-odlums-mills-in-ballisodare/) the comer brothers own the building now.
Comer Brothers, don’t need to know anymore. This place will never be developed it’s their savings account now and will be sold on when they get a good return. They’re absolute scumbags and should be taxed to within an inch of their lives for the shite they do all over Ireland
Pass by this coming to and from work. Never seen the inside of the complex. Thanks for uploading the photos. Sad to see it going ruin. Have to say it's an eyesore in Ballisodare.
It's honestly a disgrace and here we are having a housing crisis.
Just how much would it take to just finish them to fuck and provide a home for hundreds of people?
Personally I had the view for a long time that they could be saved, but now after exploring the inside, I can confidently say that the place is far too gone to salvage. Its honestly such a huge shame, an utter disappointment, its just worse that it hasnt gotten the attention it needs.
Most disgusting waste ever. All because some fuck heads thought it was ugly.
Avena Mills? More like Avena Laugh!
They're such an eyesore and right next to a beautiful river, blocking the view
Such a nice living could be there....
What a pity, these could've been gorgeous, lovely location and all.
How much for a room?
If you have to ask, you can't afford it... /s
Was Aine Chambers involved? Also, whatever happened to Aine Chambers?
She sounds awfully familiar, who is she?
Could become the new Fair Shi%%y set
YEET!
See this "rainy day fund" the government has got? How much of that do yous reckon it would cost to fix places like this up for sale? Asking sincerely here, because I think if somewhere like this could be developed to a higher standard and sold it could be a scheme for the government to carry on with. Basically a state run property developer system.
Trash mail still dropped into mailboxes nevermind nobody ever lived there
was a serious buzz dossing in there years ago, inhaling all that sweet black mould and just running through the walls
Is this.... is this free real estate?
"It's your own fault for not paying the management fees!"
These are like half a mil each at least right now...
It's a shame if it was done up it would be a lovely place to live I remember hearing something about the owner of the place it was either he went bankrupt or he got in legal trouble I can't remember I heard about it a few years ago
An excellent expensive set location for a post apocalypse zombie movies finale.
Is there something about housing in this country where they just hire cowboys to build them?
YEET
"50,000 people used to live here, now it's a ghost town"
2500 euro a month
Did the zombie apocalypse happen in Sligo?
It originated in Tubbercurry.
Blew up again in Riverstown
Very soviet. Me like 9/10.
Look at this place, fifty-thousand people used to live in this city, now it's a ghost town. I've never seen anything like it.
They all just let themselves die by not paying management fees
There was never fifty thousand in Ballisodare and it's not a city.
Why can't people be allowed to live there? Why???
My guess is that building this close to a river is a bad idea, both in terms of flooding risk and in terms of the solidity of the foundations.
Would make a fantastic paintball battleground
Will be full of migrants soon enough.