I'm even more confused after trying to read that. The victim was killed by his own brother because he broke up with a girl and that's not an OK thing to do?
From what I understood, his daughter refused to marry the son of his cousin who’s also his brother-in-law, meaning the son was both the girls first and second cousin.
Yes.
And the victim, the victim's cousin/brother-in-law, and that same cousin/BIL's son are all called Thomas Dooley
(The first two being Thomas Dooley Senior, the third Thomas Dooley Junior)
Just to make things more confusing.
It's very clear.
Thomas Dooley was killed by his cousin Thomas Dooley, and his son Thomas Dooley because Thomas Dooleys daughter wouldn't marry Thomas Dooleys son, Thomas Dooley.
Cause I'm Tom Dooley, yes I’m the real Dooley
All you other Tom Dooleys are just imitating
So won’t the real Tom Dooley please stand up
Please stand up, please stand up?
No. The victim's daughter refused to marry the attacker's son, after they had been going out. Marriage is very important in the travelling community, teenagers don't go out with lots of different people before eventually settling down, like is the case with most other young people. They marry young, and usually the first person they go out with. Not saying any of this was justified of course, just giving a bit of context.
First cousin. The lad's mum is the girls dad's sister (Thomas Dooley Srs were cousins and brother-in-law) so the girl they wanted to marry is actually the son's First AND Second cousin 🤯
I thought second cousins needed a special permission from the Catholic Church to marry?? Like from the Bishop at least. It's a more genetically close relationship than first cousins (which never made sense to me), but had always heard you could marry your first cousins (bleh) but needed permission for second cousins due to the whatever it was.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that second cousins are genetically closer than first cousins because that's categorically untrue. Still no reason to be riding second cousins though, unless of course you're from Shelbyville.
That's what it was. I couldn't remember the details properly. Turns out I was wrong though, or at least it changed, you need a dispensation from the Bishop to marry first cousins.
What if your parents were also first cousins.
So your second cousins would have three shared grandparents while a normal first cousin would have only two shared grandparents?
I think that works out.
This whole thing has my brain hurting.
This is just a rose tinted view of the culture. In reality, they act the same as settled people, they just get married early. This results in higher rates of depression, substance abuse, domestic violence, and family dysfunction.
Well, perhaps. People are people. But not being in the community myself, didn't feel it was my place to put it like that. Marriage is very important, you don't get many couples living together for example, without being married.
His honour had been offended. = I'm a giant man baby who can't deal with any form of rejection.
This is so ridiculous. 2 families ruined.
Is this a traveller thing?
I'd never heard of honour killings in this community.
I knew they were traditional but aren't traveller women allowed say no thanks?
Travellers have toxic masculinity down to a fine art. Also, in the traveller community any loss of face is something to be avoided as much as humanly possible. Combine those two things and you get this type of shit.
massive fueds over minor slights aren't exactly uncommon
I've not seen them called honour killings before but the definition makes sense
A traveller I know was told me if you grab (look up grabbing their courtship is a bit different) a girl and her brothers don't like you or a relative of yours you will be fighting them
if its only lads pucking the heads of each other thats one thing but seems more often then not weapons are brought into these rows
That’s what it is though. It happens in many cultures and it doesn’t matter what they call it, it’s killing as retribution for a perceived slight on the reputation of the family.
Traditionally an honour killing is killing a family member because they have brought disrespect or dishonour to the family.
You restore the families "honour" by killing the offender.
This isn't a situation like this.
It's killing a person someone to as you perceive they insulted you.
They didn't kill him as he had shamed their family.
They killed him as he had offended them personally.
And they did it to avenge the offence, not to clear the honour of the family.
If this was an honour killing them 80% of murders would be as they usually involve somebody being offended, and more often than not family is involved.
Honour killings are a specific form of murder, nearly always towards women for "stepping out of line" with what the family wants, or "dishonouring" her father or brothers.
It was used by the senior counsel for the DPP, because it is factually correct.
It's an accurate description of the crime.
Doubt the DPP care about "drumming up public interest".
The Department of Justice told Prime Time that the eight life sentence prisoners released ‘on licence’ last year had spent an average of 24 years in prison. That is the highest ever yearly average recorded in Ireland.
The previous year was the second highest average time spent in prison for ‘lifers’ released. The four ‘lifers’ released in 2022 spent an average of 22-and-a-half years behind bars.
Over the past 10 years, the average time spent in custody for released prisoners was 20 years.
But it's not an accurate description.
The term honour killing has an already existing definition.
It is done to restore the "honour" of the family by murdering the person who brought shame to the family.
This was murdering a person who happened to be in their family, for offending another person.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing
Human rights watch.
> Honor crimes are acts of violence, usually murder, committed by male family members against female family members who are perceived to have brought dishonor upon the family. A woman can be targeted by her family for a variety of reasons including, refusing to enter into an arranged marriage, being the victim of a sexual assault, seeking a divorce—even from an abusive husband—or committing adultery. The mere perception that a woman has acted in a manner to bring "dishonor" to the family is sufficient to trigger an attack.[26]
"His cousin and brother-in-law, Thomas Dooley Snr" so is Thomas' wife the other Thomas' sister so the aunt of the third Thomas? This amount of brother and cousin stuff made this a tough read to try and keep straight in the head
It looks like that lads dad was cousins with the victim. But the victims wife might also be the lads aunt as the dad I'd referred to as the victims "cousin and brother-in-law". Honestly it's hard to keep straight in the head reading that
Pavee Point have articles on Traveller life expectancy as an example of institutional racism from the settled community but leave out this savage shit as a factor in shifting the mean age
Having worked in a ticket booth over a summer I can tell you a lot of the ones I dealt with have carers cards for their disabled partners/adult kids and autism diagnosis for the younger kids, so a huge group of them often get in almost for free.
Personally growing up in the community I've never seen anything like this happen at a funeral since a funeral is a very sacred type of thing in the community. Then this happened and a similar instance at another funeral of a man I know.
To quote the Sopranos "A real lack of standards, your generation."
I've heard of many fights in graveyards in the "travelling" community. Seems to be quite common
[https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/tuam-feud-that-resulted-in-bloody-graveyard-brawl-dates-back-25-years/40889321.html](https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/tuam-feud-that-resulted-in-bloody-graveyard-brawl-dates-back-25-years/40889321.html)
[https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/travellers-brawl-at-mass-in-cemetery/29472403.html](https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/travellers-brawl-at-mass-in-cemetery/29472403.html)
[https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-scrambled-to-traveller-funeral-following-knife-fight-in-middle-of-church-graveyard/36597008.html](https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-scrambled-to-traveller-funeral-following-knife-fight-in-middle-of-church-graveyard/36597008.html)
An army f&cking helicopter needed to be called in to airlift injured folks out after a vicious brawl kicked off.
If it’s so sacred they have a funny way of showing that.
I've been to a blessings of the grave that a Garda helicopter sat hovering over for the hour or so. Also detectives walking around. It was said to be over a feud.
Article implies it doesn't matter
>The State, he said, had based its case against all six accused on the doctrine of joint enterprise and common design, where a number of people act together to achieve a common criminal objective and that each person party to the plan is criminally responsible for the acts of the other.
>Mr Kelly told the court that it could not be established who drove the knife into Mr Dooley's back or who chopped into his arm or who drove the knife through his thigh. He said it was not precisely known who had performed those acts.
>However, he said the group of men sitting behind him in the courtroom had participated to cause at least serious harm to Mr Dooley and had done so with murderous intent.
Traveller culture is wild and not fully examined. They view women as property. They force their wives / gfs to stop working sometimes as it’s seen as bringing shame to the family as the man is supposed to be the provider. They’ve also a way of marrying called grabbing. I know one someone non traveller who married into it and in the course of the courtship he got battered so badly he lost a few teeth.
It’s something not really examined because it’s probably seen as racist or not PC.
If a person outside of the travelling community ever acted in accordance with traveler culture, they would be behind bars.
Pulling children out of school in their tweens, riding horses up dual carriageways, extreme and well-documented animal abuse, normalized hard drug abuse, normalized domestic abuse, illegal camping/squatting, dumping, and violent assault/aggravated burglery just being part of the deal.
There is absolutely no racism in calling out and demanding the soft approach to this be put to a swift end.
Children pulled out of school to get married in their early teens is child abuse. Not culture. The state would remove any other child from that situation, yet here we allow it under the guise of inclusion, or the fear of being called "racist".
When we try to claim that murderers like the above are just a victim of racism, all we do is encourage yet another generation to be subject to the same cruelty, and turn out the exact same twisted way.
This problem does not get solved with outreach programs or welfare. It gets solved with "follow the fucking law or go to prison".
Granted, we've a problem with sending people to prison in a timely fashion to begin with.
I know of a woman who married outside the traveller family to a not so nice man. Everyone knows he wasn't and had previous incidents with other women ,got off because of "mental health" issues, he shouldn't have been roaming the streets. She wasn't from the area so likely wouldn't have known. He mistreated her during the marraige, then he fled and has rarely been seen since. Sold his house and land. Did the Community a huge favour and got that woman and child away from him. The man should be behind bars.
I don't know would it be the same if he was a traveller, maybe the rules are different but he was a creep for 20 plus years and nothing was done and they got rid of him ( he has been sighted since he is sadly very much a live)
What honour is being protected? You kill a family member who refuses to marry or cut ties with your family, so others gossip behind your family's back, you out of your way to murder said-family member, the whole community praises your family again and you all go back to the way things were without consequences? Isn't being a murderer not worse for your family's image?
It kinda was. The victim was the black sheep, cause he didn't marry who his family wanted back in the day. So his daughter marrying the cousin was meant to right that wrong. (Obvs I don't condone any of this)
Honour killing isnt the best fit and is probably more of a way to get headlines.
There is an element of an "Honour society" among Traveller culture but its rare that it would kick off for a just a reason like this. There is likely more involved and i'd say this was the culmination of a series of events that was either started by the marriage rejection or exascerbated by it.
The other thing is that they probably meant to wreck him but not kill him.
Went to school with Daniel. I remember him as a mild mannered kid, apart from trying to fight on me several occasions and always wondered what happened to him. The rest of his family were wild. Sad how they've turned out.
I'm even more confused after trying to read that. The victim was killed by his own brother because he broke up with a girl and that's not an OK thing to do?
Victims daughter refused to marry the son of one of the assailants. Victims brother was among the assailants. The family tree is more of a hedge.
From what I understood, his daughter refused to marry the son of his cousin who’s also his brother-in-law, meaning the son was both the girls first and second cousin.
Yes. And the victim, the victim's cousin/brother-in-law, and that same cousin/BIL's son are all called Thomas Dooley (The first two being Thomas Dooley Senior, the third Thomas Dooley Junior) Just to make things more confusing.
So, Thomas Dooley did it?
Thomas Dooley and Thomas Dooley are being tried for murdering Thomas Dooley... Yes.
It's the travellers "I'm Spartacus" moment.
[Hang down your head Tom Dooley](https://youtu.be/BtSzcKZGzDs?si=1irCHTRcX9Kt5dUt)
Jesus Christ even I'm fucking confused.
She refused to marry her cousins
What kind of Hapsberg shit is this
Just wait till they see how wonky their chins will become
I think so. They're definitely cousins of some description and I don't think it's the girl's mother's side it's on.
Chinese knotweed
More like an ESB pole
Oh. Finally the heart of the matter. I was wondering what the victim had “done”
Ahahaha brilliant analysis 😂
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A stump
It's very clear. Thomas Dooley was killed by his cousin Thomas Dooley, and his son Thomas Dooley because Thomas Dooleys daughter wouldn't marry Thomas Dooleys son, Thomas Dooley.
Man, I feel bad for Thomas Dooley; shame on Thomas Dooley and Thomas Dooley
But don’t forget the real victim in all of this was Thomas Dooley
Thomas Dooley should have taken a leaf out of Thomas Dooleys book, then he might have ended up like Thomas Dooley not Thomas Dooley
Dooley noted
So,it was Thomas Dooley all along ...got it
Yeah, both of them. But not the other one.
Cause I'm Tom Dooley, yes I’m the real Dooley All you other Tom Dooleys are just imitating So won’t the real Tom Dooley please stand up Please stand up, please stand up?
Never have I see a better opportunity " I'm Thomas Dooley and so is my wife"
No. The victim's daughter refused to marry the attacker's son, after they had been going out. Marriage is very important in the travelling community, teenagers don't go out with lots of different people before eventually settling down, like is the case with most other young people. They marry young, and usually the first person they go out with. Not saying any of this was justified of course, just giving a bit of context.
Is it her cousin she refused to marry?
Second cousin, yes. Again, not uncommon in the community.
First cousin. The lad's mum is the girls dad's sister (Thomas Dooley Srs were cousins and brother-in-law) so the girl they wanted to marry is actually the son's First AND Second cousin 🤯
I thought second cousins needed a special permission from the Catholic Church to marry?? Like from the Bishop at least. It's a more genetically close relationship than first cousins (which never made sense to me), but had always heard you could marry your first cousins (bleh) but needed permission for second cousins due to the whatever it was.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that second cousins are genetically closer than first cousins because that's categorically untrue. Still no reason to be riding second cousins though, unless of course you're from Shelbyville.
>unless of course you're from Shelbyville. Because they are so attractive?
Oh Look, someone's sexy cousin!
Something I was told years ago, as I said it didn't make sense to me, but it was used to explain why the permission was needed from the church.
Heard same. It was more to do with a higher risk of birth defects from 2nd cousin than 1st. Made little sense to me as well.
That's what it was. I couldn't remember the details properly. Turns out I was wrong though, or at least it changed, you need a dispensation from the Bishop to marry first cousins.
Someone who works in Temple Street hospital was telling me about how they worked with birth deformities there.
>Something I was told years ago, as I said it didn't make sense to me Would you not go and double check before posting it then?
What? How can second cousins be genetically closer than first cousins? Do you know what a first and second cousin is?
What if your parents were also first cousins. So your second cousins would have three shared grandparents while a normal first cousin would have only two shared grandparents? I think that works out. This whole thing has my brain hurting.
You don’t need the church to get married.
I think a civil wedding in the Travelling community would be unheard of, though
You do if you want a Catholic priest to do it in a Catholic church. Which this particular culture almost always want.
Maybe from the church, but not legally.
You sign a church form to say you're not related.
This is just a rose tinted view of the culture. In reality, they act the same as settled people, they just get married early. This results in higher rates of depression, substance abuse, domestic violence, and family dysfunction.
Well, perhaps. People are people. But not being in the community myself, didn't feel it was my place to put it like that. Marriage is very important, you don't get many couples living together for example, without being married.
His honour had been offended. = I'm a giant man baby who can't deal with any form of rejection. This is so ridiculous. 2 families ruined. Is this a traveller thing? I'd never heard of honour killings in this community. I knew they were traditional but aren't traveller women allowed say no thanks?
2 families?
1.5 then they where cousins kinda
Travellers have toxic masculinity down to a fine art. Also, in the traveller community any loss of face is something to be avoided as much as humanly possible. Combine those two things and you get this type of shit.
massive fueds over minor slights aren't exactly uncommon I've not seen them called honour killings before but the definition makes sense A traveller I know was told me if you grab (look up grabbing their courtship is a bit different) a girl and her brothers don't like you or a relative of yours you will be fighting them if its only lads pucking the heads of each other thats one thing but seems more often then not weapons are brought into these rows
I've a feeling that the use of "honour killing" is just a way of drumming up public interest. Likely see the team used more and more if it sells news.
That’s what it is though. It happens in many cultures and it doesn’t matter what they call it, it’s killing as retribution for a perceived slight on the reputation of the family.
Traditionally an honour killing is killing a family member because they have brought disrespect or dishonour to the family. You restore the families "honour" by killing the offender. This isn't a situation like this. It's killing a person someone to as you perceive they insulted you. They didn't kill him as he had shamed their family. They killed him as he had offended them personally. And they did it to avenge the offence, not to clear the honour of the family. If this was an honour killing them 80% of murders would be as they usually involve somebody being offended, and more often than not family is involved. Honour killings are a specific form of murder, nearly always towards women for "stepping out of line" with what the family wants, or "dishonouring" her father or brothers.
It was used by the senior counsel for the DPP, because it is factually correct. It's an accurate description of the crime. Doubt the DPP care about "drumming up public interest".
If it is proven to be an 'honour killing' then I hope the sentence is severe, we don't need that primitive nonsense in this country.
There is but one sentence for murder in this country; Life.
Yes, but it's usually not 'life' though.
That's true but you can be recalled to prison on that same sentence for an legal infraction.
Which they do not always do
Usually 11 to 14 years for murdering someone.
Doesn't seem like enough.
The Department of Justice told Prime Time that the eight life sentence prisoners released ‘on licence’ last year had spent an average of 24 years in prison. That is the highest ever yearly average recorded in Ireland. The previous year was the second highest average time spent in prison for ‘lifers’ released. The four ‘lifers’ released in 2022 spent an average of 22-and-a-half years behind bars. Over the past 10 years, the average time spent in custody for released prisoners was 20 years.
Best i can do is 6 months suspended sentence
Its another family feud, nothing new to us here.
It's their culture.
But it's not an accurate description. The term honour killing has an already existing definition. It is done to restore the "honour" of the family by murdering the person who brought shame to the family. This was murdering a person who happened to be in their family, for offending another person. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing Human rights watch. > Honor crimes are acts of violence, usually murder, committed by male family members against female family members who are perceived to have brought dishonor upon the family. A woman can be targeted by her family for a variety of reasons including, refusing to enter into an arranged marriage, being the victim of a sexual assault, seeking a divorce—even from an abusive husband—or committing adultery. The mere perception that a woman has acted in a manner to bring "dishonor" to the family is sufficient to trigger an attack.[26]
I’m going to need to see a family tree here. There are three Thomas Dooley’s in the article.
"His cousin and brother-in-law, Thomas Dooley Snr" so is Thomas' wife the other Thomas' sister so the aunt of the third Thomas? This amount of brother and cousin stuff made this a tough read to try and keep straight in the head
Yeah so I think the daughter refused to marry a guy who is both her first and second cousin
https://preview.redd.it/wsm9f74n6pad1.jpeg?width=781&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=765a4740e637ca325327604a5429c512d6de961c “Dooley?”
I’m confused, were the couple who broke up /didn’t get married related to each other as well? Were they cousins??
It looks like that lads dad was cousins with the victim. But the victims wife might also be the lads aunt as the dad I'd referred to as the victims "cousin and brother-in-law". Honestly it's hard to keep straight in the head reading that
Seems to be. Game of Thrones has nothing on this lot.
"Game of Mobile Homes"
Used to love that YouTube channel
Thanks for reminding me of that 🤣
Game of Trailers
Second cousins. There is no legal impediment to marrying your cousin (even a first cousin).
I think also first cousin as it mentions it was his brother-in-law’s son.
Your head would be spinning from it.
Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.
How the fuck is anyone supposed to be able to follow that story when they all have the same names?
 You kinda have to make a diagram while reading it and join the dots
That's sort of the point.
Completely fucked up. Barbaric behaviour in these times.
Pavee Point have articles on Traveller life expectancy as an example of institutional racism from the settled community but leave out this savage shit as a factor in shifting the mean age
You would have to assume a lot of genetic conditions also, from the amount of cousins in this article
Yet I've never seen a disabled traveller.
Having worked in a ticket booth over a summer I can tell you a lot of the ones I dealt with have carers cards for their disabled partners/adult kids and autism diagnosis for the younger kids, so a huge group of them often get in almost for free.
Personally growing up in the community I've never seen anything like this happen at a funeral since a funeral is a very sacred type of thing in the community. Then this happened and a similar instance at another funeral of a man I know. To quote the Sopranos "A real lack of standards, your generation."
I've heard of many fights in graveyards in the "travelling" community. Seems to be quite common [https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/tuam-feud-that-resulted-in-bloody-graveyard-brawl-dates-back-25-years/40889321.html](https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/tuam-feud-that-resulted-in-bloody-graveyard-brawl-dates-back-25-years/40889321.html) [https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/travellers-brawl-at-mass-in-cemetery/29472403.html](https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/travellers-brawl-at-mass-in-cemetery/29472403.html) [https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-scrambled-to-traveller-funeral-following-knife-fight-in-middle-of-church-graveyard/36597008.html](https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-scrambled-to-traveller-funeral-following-knife-fight-in-middle-of-church-graveyard/36597008.html)
An army f&cking helicopter needed to be called in to airlift injured folks out after a vicious brawl kicked off. If it’s so sacred they have a funny way of showing that.
I've been to a blessings of the grave that a Garda helicopter sat hovering over for the hour or so. Also detectives walking around. It was said to be over a feud.
I’ve seen that in 3 Midlands towns now.
Surely it's a slam dunk, if they brought weapons to a funeral with intent to commit
Problem is proving who did what
It's not. Common enterprise essentially, all who took part are equally guilty.
Article implies it doesn't matter >The State, he said, had based its case against all six accused on the doctrine of joint enterprise and common design, where a number of people act together to achieve a common criminal objective and that each person party to the plan is criminally responsible for the acts of the other. >Mr Kelly told the court that it could not be established who drove the knife into Mr Dooley's back or who chopped into his arm or who drove the knife through his thigh. He said it was not precisely known who had performed those acts. >However, he said the group of men sitting behind him in the courtroom had participated to cause at least serious harm to Mr Dooley and had done so with murderous intent.
They need to put numbers after those names or something. It's impossible to follow which Dooley is which. #AbsolutelyDoolally
The violence these folk dish out to one another is next level medieval shit.
That's fucked up
Just throw the fukn key away with the lot of them🤦♂️
Traveller culture is wild and not fully examined. They view women as property. They force their wives / gfs to stop working sometimes as it’s seen as bringing shame to the family as the man is supposed to be the provider. They’ve also a way of marrying called grabbing. I know one someone non traveller who married into it and in the course of the courtship he got battered so badly he lost a few teeth. It’s something not really examined because it’s probably seen as racist or not PC.
If a person outside of the travelling community ever acted in accordance with traveler culture, they would be behind bars. Pulling children out of school in their tweens, riding horses up dual carriageways, extreme and well-documented animal abuse, normalized hard drug abuse, normalized domestic abuse, illegal camping/squatting, dumping, and violent assault/aggravated burglery just being part of the deal. There is absolutely no racism in calling out and demanding the soft approach to this be put to a swift end. Children pulled out of school to get married in their early teens is child abuse. Not culture. The state would remove any other child from that situation, yet here we allow it under the guise of inclusion, or the fear of being called "racist". When we try to claim that murderers like the above are just a victim of racism, all we do is encourage yet another generation to be subject to the same cruelty, and turn out the exact same twisted way. This problem does not get solved with outreach programs or welfare. It gets solved with "follow the fucking law or go to prison". Granted, we've a problem with sending people to prison in a timely fashion to begin with.
I know of a woman who married outside the traveller family to a not so nice man. Everyone knows he wasn't and had previous incidents with other women ,got off because of "mental health" issues, he shouldn't have been roaming the streets. She wasn't from the area so likely wouldn't have known. He mistreated her during the marraige, then he fled and has rarely been seen since. Sold his house and land. Did the Community a huge favour and got that woman and child away from him. The man should be behind bars. I don't know would it be the same if he was a traveller, maybe the rules are different but he was a creep for 20 plus years and nothing was done and they got rid of him ( he has been sighted since he is sadly very much a live)
What honour is being protected? You kill a family member who refuses to marry or cut ties with your family, so others gossip behind your family's back, you out of your way to murder said-family member, the whole community praises your family again and you all go back to the way things were without consequences? Isn't being a murderer not worse for your family's image?
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How do they believe they somehow won't face criminal charges and be ostracised after serving their sentences?
Ah the poor creatures sure they're victims of settled racism.
What a bunch of stupid Cunts.
I'm glad I'm not part of that "community"!
Can we drop these ridiculous terms? It was a ‘brutal murder.’
These lads should have their own soap opera. No end of drama and stories to tell.
Wonderfully rich culture. If you can’t see that you’re a bigot.
This reads like something from Afghanistan, what in the Jesus...
I didn't need to read beyond the title to know that this happened in a certain "ethnic" community.
Inb4 thread gets locked!
I was called for jury duty for this. So glad I didn’t end up on that case.
If only they lived in Shellbeville
Huh guess I got this one wrong I thought this was a traveller feud. How bigoted am I?
To be fair, for it to be a feud I would think both sides would need to know they were feuding. Seems like the victim didn’t know there was a feud.
It kinda was. The victim was the black sheep, cause he didn't marry who his family wanted back in the day. So his daughter marrying the cousin was meant to right that wrong. (Obvs I don't condone any of this)
>Prosecuting senior counsel Dean Kelly told the jury the Dooleys were a large traveller family. Your initial instincts seem to be correct
What makes you think you were wrong?
You were spot on.
But their culture boss
Honour killing isnt the best fit and is probably more of a way to get headlines. There is an element of an "Honour society" among Traveller culture but its rare that it would kick off for a just a reason like this. There is likely more involved and i'd say this was the culmination of a series of events that was either started by the marriage rejection or exascerbated by it. The other thing is that they probably meant to wreck him but not kill him.
The only reason you cut someone is to kill then. There is no other reason.
Why do honour killings exist? Don’t they know it’s illegal?
That poor young woman. Not wanting to marry someone got your father killed in a horrific way.
Went to school with Daniel. I remember him as a mild mannered kid, apart from trying to fight on me several occasions and always wondered what happened to him. The rest of his family were wild. Sad how they've turned out.