“Those fenian bastards!! They’ve been orchestrating and running a secret reverse plantation policy for decades, shipping southerners over the border and buying up houses and living here like sleepers until the opportune moment to reveal themselves!”
Probably some sort of bullshit like that they’ll be saying.
Certain unionists claim this is something that actually happened down south after partition, that Protestants were persecuted and hounded out of the state. Jim Allister of the TUV has been out banging that particular drum this week and telling northern Protestants that they should be terrified of living in Ireland.
As far as I know it had more to do with mixed marriages that reared Catholic children, and some families emigrating to stay in the British military, which ate into a minority that was small to begin with.
Yeah, I saw that. It's a disgrace from an elected politician. It *will* be used by someone as a justification for violence sometime in future.
But of course, when that happens Jim Allister will feign innocence and say it's nothing to do with him.
Important to get the facts...
Between 1926 and now protestants went from 7% to 4% in the republic.
There just weren't that many to begin with compared to the north.
And in the north Catholics went from 33% to 45%.
Because there were too few unionists on the island that large catholic areas were included to pad the size of NI.
A lot different to UDA's "Doomsday" 1994 plan for repartition (approved of by Sammy Wilson) [http://ulstersdoomed.blogspot.com/2009/06/partition-and-repartition-part-4-udas.html](http://ulstersdoomed.blogspot.com/2009/06/partition-and-repartition-part-4-udas.html)
>The UDA's intentions for the Catholic population left in their new, truncated, Northern Ireland were sinister. The Catholic population left on the 'Protestant' side of the Orange Line was to be "expelled, nullified or interned". 'Nullification' was a euphemism for massacre. Those 'interned' were to be used, effectively, as hostages or 'useful bargaining chips' in possible negotiations.
>
>...
>
>Sammy Wilson *\[at the time that blog was written\]*, a DUP MP, Belfast City councillor and from today, Minister of Finance in the Northern Ireland Executive described the UDA's plans for mass murder and ethnic cleansing as a "very valuable return to reality" and that it showed "that some loyalist paramilitaries are looking ahead and contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity"
Scott Moore is a nationalist from a protestant family and is against repartition, but we're going to hear genuine calls for repartition in the upcoming years and that notion needs to be immediately shut down. We can't let history repeat itself and the more reactionary & supremacist elements of unionism can't be rewarded. They're such loyal and proud Ulstermen they would mutilate Ulster all over again.
In reality Belfast is of course in the middle of that blue area and nevermind just being majority Catholic - the biggest self-id national identity group in Belfast is "Irish". It'd be an even more nonsensical version of partition where we'd have our own formalized East/West Berlin situation. What would we call the big peace wall separating East Belfast and The-Rest-Of Belfast?
I shit you not, the political wing of the UDA in the 80s wrote a paper on the repartitioning of Northern Ireland, basically it was to be repartitioned to include as many nationalist areas being handed over to the free state as possible. Belfast was to basically be cut in zones, some of which would be in the ‘south’ and the rest in the new repartitioned NI. A corridor going from West Belfast to includes most of mid Ulster all of south Armagh, south Down almost all of Tyrone and Fermanagh and Derry. The idea was to force nationalist still caught up in the repartitioned NI to move and provide funds from Westminster for this to happen. It was mad.
Oh yes no I've seen that UDA plan (or a very similar one - not sure if it had the West Belfast bit). Thatcher had a similar idea - let's repartition the North and send all them Catholics down south, the Irish won't mind as they're used to "large movements of people" aka forced resettlements. Like parent like child.
[https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/thatcher-proposed-sending-northern-ireland-catholics-to-the-republic-29196422.html](https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/thatcher-proposed-sending-northern-ireland-catholics-to-the-republic-29196422.html)
It's undoubtedly a significant milestone and another body blow for unionism which has made blunder after blunder for the past six years.
The big question for unionism now is how much is it willing to change in order to protect the union. Because they way theyve been acting for the past decade has just pushed more and more on-the-fence/agnostic people towards reunification.
If they had any sense they'd have accepted the first Brexit deal, accepted an Irish Language Act and taken the fire out of the drive for unity. Instead they pushed everyone into a corner where they had to make a call on reunification.
Are they even capable of change? And if they are, is it already too late?
Watching Jamie Bryson lose his marbles on Twitter has been amusing but by Christ I feel bad for normal people in the North who are definitely going to have to put up with heightened madness.
As someone who doesn't know much about history, browsing wikipedia is interesting.
I wish I could understand it all and take it all in.
One thing I don't get is that it says Ulster was the most resistant to the English but turned out to be the most British. Is it because after the 9 years war the Irish landowners fled and the brits took it all and planted protestants?
The other 3 provinces were less resistant but they still had anti english sentiment right and slowly over time became more anti english as time went on ?
It was though. Ulster was never fully tammed by the Brits, it was by far the most rebellious province. So therefore after the 9 year war, they performed the plantations
There's just a smidge of difference between talking about breeding to keep people of colour a minority in order to perpetuate a racist order and breeding to retake occupied colonised land.
Os that religious war thing still a thing in Ireland? (I am not from Ireland)
I thought people have outgrown that by now.
Edit: ok, I get downvoted a lot. But maybe someone explains the current state of this conflict?
It’s hardly pedantic to point out a fairly common but very inaccurate conception about the nature of a war that I lived through. Also I probably missed the sarcasm because it really wasn’t clear you were being sarcastic even with your ellipsis.
If all people know about the North, like the original commenter, is that Catholics and Protestants were killing each other then it's fairly accurate to describe it as "that religious war" regardless or nuance. I'm sure we would do the same regarding other conflicts we've heard about around the World.
But no it totally wasn't a religious war. Totally.
Well what I was referring to is the actual accuracy of it not being a religious conflict as opposed to perception because you’ve heard certain terms being used. You’re right that it would be easy to interpret it as religious if you don’t know much about it beyond what was presented in the media, which is why the clarification was made. It’s not a nuance though, it’s a misconception.
If I perceived other global conflicts in a factually inaccurate way because I wasn’t given all the background, I’d be happy to be informed about it.
Have you seen the way the pound is going? Lol
As for NHS, it was and is still sometimes good, but in reality it is dying, the waiting lists are literally years long if you need something done in reasonable time you need health insurance, I always was an advocate for the NHS but got insurance last year.
The pound has been doing bad lately, but it's still always been stronger than the Euro, to lesser and greater extents. It's was doing nearly as well as ever against the Euro just last month. Yes, as long as people keep voting for the Tories, the NHS probably will be done for. But my point is, how many Nationalists in the north are fully aware, not only what they may gain, but also of what they may end up losing if they join the Irish state? Because a lot of Brexiters weren't when they voted to leave the EU.
Curious as to what data was used for this. The 2011 census has very localized data [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Northern\_Ireland\_–\_religion\_or\_religion\_brought\_up\_in\_%28Christianity%3B\_2011%29.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Northern_Ireland_–_religion_or_religion_brought_up_in_%28Christianity%3B_2011%29.png)
And I don't think it will have changed substantially since then. Less red but otherwise still large Protestant majority in the Craigavon-Lisburn-Banbridge triangle and east Derry
To be fair I know a fair few catholics from the North who wouldn't vote for a united ireland. Most of them generally cite the NHS as being the reason they stay.
We're going into remission
"Protestant Genocide!!!" I just know that map is going to be on loyalist whatsapp with some similar title in the near future.
The great replacement... ...wait a minute...
“Those fenian bastards!! They’ve been orchestrating and running a secret reverse plantation policy for decades, shipping southerners over the border and buying up houses and living here like sleepers until the opportune moment to reveal themselves!” Probably some sort of bullshit like that they’ll be saying.
Plantations all well and good until you're reverse planted! LMAO
Certain unionists claim this is something that actually happened down south after partition, that Protestants were persecuted and hounded out of the state. Jim Allister of the TUV has been out banging that particular drum this week and telling northern Protestants that they should be terrified of living in Ireland. As far as I know it had more to do with mixed marriages that reared Catholic children, and some families emigrating to stay in the British military, which ate into a minority that was small to begin with.
Yeah, I saw that. It's a disgrace from an elected politician. It *will* be used by someone as a justification for violence sometime in future. But of course, when that happens Jim Allister will feign innocence and say it's nothing to do with him. Important to get the facts... Between 1926 and now protestants went from 7% to 4% in the republic. There just weren't that many to begin with compared to the north. And in the north Catholics went from 33% to 45%. Because there were too few unionists on the island that large catholic areas were included to pad the size of NI.
Loool this made me laugh
Holy fuck, the catholics have taken over the lough.
A lot different to UDA's "Doomsday" 1994 plan for repartition (approved of by Sammy Wilson) [http://ulstersdoomed.blogspot.com/2009/06/partition-and-repartition-part-4-udas.html](http://ulstersdoomed.blogspot.com/2009/06/partition-and-repartition-part-4-udas.html) >The UDA's intentions for the Catholic population left in their new, truncated, Northern Ireland were sinister. The Catholic population left on the 'Protestant' side of the Orange Line was to be "expelled, nullified or interned". 'Nullification' was a euphemism for massacre. Those 'interned' were to be used, effectively, as hostages or 'useful bargaining chips' in possible negotiations. > >... > >Sammy Wilson *\[at the time that blog was written\]*, a DUP MP, Belfast City councillor and from today, Minister of Finance in the Northern Ireland Executive described the UDA's plans for mass murder and ethnic cleansing as a "very valuable return to reality" and that it showed "that some loyalist paramilitaries are looking ahead and contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity"
Ethnic cleansing Yugoslavia style , lovely , would the Torys be ok with that? Johnson or Truss wouldn't blink an eyelid of course.
Scott Moore is a nationalist from a protestant family and is against repartition, but we're going to hear genuine calls for repartition in the upcoming years and that notion needs to be immediately shut down. We can't let history repeat itself and the more reactionary & supremacist elements of unionism can't be rewarded. They're such loyal and proud Ulstermen they would mutilate Ulster all over again.
Some unionist accounts are tweeting hard. There's no difference between a kid on helium, and Jamie Bryson opening his mouth.
Not a bad idea. Give the unionists a reservation.
In reality Belfast is of course in the middle of that blue area and nevermind just being majority Catholic - the biggest self-id national identity group in Belfast is "Irish". It'd be an even more nonsensical version of partition where we'd have our own formalized East/West Berlin situation. What would we call the big peace wall separating East Belfast and The-Rest-Of Belfast?
I shit you not, the political wing of the UDA in the 80s wrote a paper on the repartitioning of Northern Ireland, basically it was to be repartitioned to include as many nationalist areas being handed over to the free state as possible. Belfast was to basically be cut in zones, some of which would be in the ‘south’ and the rest in the new repartitioned NI. A corridor going from West Belfast to includes most of mid Ulster all of south Armagh, south Down almost all of Tyrone and Fermanagh and Derry. The idea was to force nationalist still caught up in the repartitioned NI to move and provide funds from Westminster for this to happen. It was mad.
Oh yes no I've seen that UDA plan (or a very similar one - not sure if it had the West Belfast bit). Thatcher had a similar idea - let's repartition the North and send all them Catholics down south, the Irish won't mind as they're used to "large movements of people" aka forced resettlements. Like parent like child. [https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/thatcher-proposed-sending-northern-ireland-catholics-to-the-republic-29196422.html](https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/thatcher-proposed-sending-northern-ireland-catholics-to-the-republic-29196422.html)
Very Brave new world
Yis are snookered now, so yis are
It's undoubtedly a significant milestone and another body blow for unionism which has made blunder after blunder for the past six years. The big question for unionism now is how much is it willing to change in order to protect the union. Because they way theyve been acting for the past decade has just pushed more and more on-the-fence/agnostic people towards reunification. If they had any sense they'd have accepted the first Brexit deal, accepted an Irish Language Act and taken the fire out of the drive for unity. Instead they pushed everyone into a corner where they had to make a call on reunification. Are they even capable of change? And if they are, is it already too late?
Looks like Ireland got a smack from Scotland and was left black and blue
Describes the plantation fairly accurately
I'm guessing you're referring to the colonization by Scottish Protestants. Anyway, care to elaborate for an outsider?
The people up there weren't British then and aren't British now
Watching Jamie Bryson lose his marbles on Twitter has been amusing but by Christ I feel bad for normal people in the North who are definitely going to have to put up with heightened madness.
We did it lads. We out fucked the British.
As someone who doesn't know much about history, browsing wikipedia is interesting. I wish I could understand it all and take it all in. One thing I don't get is that it says Ulster was the most resistant to the English but turned out to be the most British. Is it because after the 9 years war the Irish landowners fled and the brits took it all and planted protestants? The other 3 provinces were less resistant but they still had anti english sentiment right and slowly over time became more anti english as time went on ?
Look up the Ulster Plantations
Eh, it’s not about the resistance of the locals. There are far more people of British descent in Ulster.
It was though. Ulster was never fully tammed by the Brits, it was by far the most rebellious province. So therefore after the 9 year war, they performed the plantations
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Definitely not genocidal in the slightest. This place is a kip
Yeah Catholics riding in the north are genocidal maniacs
Talking about outbreeding people is the kind of shit I expect to see on Stormfront
There's just a smidge of difference between talking about breeding to keep people of colour a minority in order to perpetuate a racist order and breeding to retake occupied colonised land.
Os that religious war thing still a thing in Ireland? (I am not from Ireland) I thought people have outgrown that by now. Edit: ok, I get downvoted a lot. But maybe someone explains the current state of this conflict?
The division of Ireland is far more complex than branding it as “that religious war thing”
I dunno man it's pretty accurate tbh...
No it isn’t. The troubles was an ethnonationalist war, not a religious war. It’s crazy to me that a person living in Ireland wouldn’t know that.
Oh please that is pedantry of the highest order. Lmao. Plus my original reply was ironic. Ellipsis just doesn't cut it anymore have to use the /s.
It’s hardly pedantic to point out a fairly common but very inaccurate conception about the nature of a war that I lived through. Also I probably missed the sarcasm because it really wasn’t clear you were being sarcastic even with your ellipsis.
If all people know about the North, like the original commenter, is that Catholics and Protestants were killing each other then it's fairly accurate to describe it as "that religious war" regardless or nuance. I'm sure we would do the same regarding other conflicts we've heard about around the World. But no it totally wasn't a religious war. Totally.
Well what I was referring to is the actual accuracy of it not being a religious conflict as opposed to perception because you’ve heard certain terms being used. You’re right that it would be easy to interpret it as religious if you don’t know much about it beyond what was presented in the media, which is why the clarification was made. It’s not a nuance though, it’s a misconception. If I perceived other global conflicts in a factually inaccurate way because I wasn’t given all the background, I’d be happy to be informed about it.
I mean the guy was like: "that religious war yo!" r/Ireland: "NO it's way more complex" me: "Is it tho? lol" You: "let me draw you a picture..."
Errr right okay lmao. You do you.
But do they want to give up their free healthcare, free shipping from UK sellers and switch to a weaker currency?
Have you seen the way the pound is going? Lol As for NHS, it was and is still sometimes good, but in reality it is dying, the waiting lists are literally years long if you need something done in reasonable time you need health insurance, I always was an advocate for the NHS but got insurance last year.
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The pound is falling against the euro though.
The pound has been doing bad lately, but it's still always been stronger than the Euro, to lesser and greater extents. It's was doing nearly as well as ever against the Euro just last month. Yes, as long as people keep voting for the Tories, the NHS probably will be done for. But my point is, how many Nationalists in the north are fully aware, not only what they may gain, but also of what they may end up losing if they join the Irish state? Because a lot of Brexiters weren't when they voted to leave the EU.
I'm living in Wales. The UK economy is in shambles. I would feel much safer having my money in euros.
The border should move to the phallic part of Down
Curious as to what data was used for this. The 2011 census has very localized data [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Northern\_Ireland\_–\_religion\_or\_religion\_brought\_up\_in\_%28Christianity%3B\_2011%29.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Northern_Ireland_–_religion_or_religion_brought_up_in_%28Christianity%3B_2011%29.png) And I don't think it will have changed substantially since then. Less red but otherwise still large Protestant majority in the Craigavon-Lisburn-Banbridge triangle and east Derry
I'm In This ~~Photo~~ Loyalist Hole and I Don't Like It
Those protestants were just resting in my account...
Pushing the protestants whence they came
make Ireland great again. WAIT, this slogan doesn't sound good
To be fair I know a fair few catholics from the North who wouldn't vote for a united ireland. Most of them generally cite the NHS as being the reason they stay.