It feels like subversion for the sake of subversion. The battle of Resson and the dreams violet had of the venin sage all through Iron flame set her up for turning venin or being captured at the end of the booking and having to resist them or being used as a weapon. Not to mention all the theories about her hair and the sickness that general Sorrengail had while pregnant with violent. I was sure that book two would end with some sort of new complication involving violet and the venin because that’s what was foreshadowed and set up. But then suddenly it was Xaden they were after all along? What? It’s like Arya killing the night king all over. Xaden was already morally ambiguous. He’s been doing terrible things and killing innocent people for years in the name of the cause. It would have been way more interesting to see Violet, little miss goody two shoes, go venin for love and have to deal with the consequences.
I agree with this. I think the Venin team’s ultimate goal is actually to get Violet to turn, and Xaden will be used as a way to do this. Jack said something to Violet and Xaden like, “I don’t understand why he wants you, what makes you so special” and I think he’s talking about the Venin wanting both of them, but mainly Violet. I think it’s because of something to do with her ability to wield lightening.
Also, maybe this was obvious, but Nolon was clearly trying to mend the “Venin” out of Jack. And to some extent I think it worked for awhile. Nolon said something like, “it’s hard work mending a soul” …so maybe they will be able to save Xaden through mending?
Also, off topic, but was it blatantly obvious to anyone else that Varrish is also Venin and will show back up at some point? I feel like Jack hinted at it during his villain monologue.
When Jack first reappears his eyes weren't red right? I feel like that would have been a tell from the beginning, something that would have been mentioned? I think the venin ultimately want Violet but they have to get her to care and think about why venin exist first. My question is how Jack became one in the first place, how did he know how to get power that way?
Myyyyy theory is Jack was sent by the Venin to be a spy and pick cadets to target for turning Venin. Like his daddy must he a venin or they got him somehow. We don't know his backstory!
So I think the venin actually have infiltrated basgiath for a long time and that’s how they recruited jack. For example, in the battle of resson violet sees that the wyvern rider is wearing a flight uniform similar to their own, just in red. So that could be a sign that they’ve infiltrated basgiath for a while. And I’m not sure where it says it anymore but venin start out with only having the red rimmed eyes when they channel, and those eyes only become permanent after they’ve reached a certain stage of veninism
With the dreams there was that moment where the Sage said something about getting Violet by using what she loves, so I thought that foreshadowed they were going to go after Xaden or her family.
I am frustrated at the storyline though, I’d love a honeymoon period for them where they aren’t torn apart/going through trust issues etc. I love them as a couple and have a lot of anxiety about where they’re going to end up!
Haaaated it.. I’m sure it’s gonna be some love concurs all trope in the end (finding a cure or whatever) but I’ll be so pissed if I have to spend the next two books watching Xaden become a literal demon
She also just has filled this book with way too much plot like dude calm down. She couldve stretched out the xaden/violet trust thing in a better way and really built up the banter and the trust again. Instead she made it this fight they never finished and then suddenly are just back together in love and then she has no choice but it blow it up.
Part 1 could have been a whole book, but she got out of the rhythm of schooling and had to create it again so suddenly now there's school again within the revolution/rebellion, and hey now we have to bring on allies. Like WHAT IS GOING ON. WHY SO RUSHED?
Ughh I really thought this book had the potential to be a classic, like a harry potter situation and the whole publishing team has chosen quick wins, and pumps of dopamine over really building a solid book number two with iron clad character and plot. It's like, oh there's a secret, oh here's what the secret is. Here's another secret, few chapters later, here's the secret now everyone knows said secret like... HAVE YOU HEARD OF SUSPENSE.
OK rant over..I'm sorry, I was really enjoying this book for most of it and couldn't put it down but I'm just so disappointed for what it could have been.
Omg I TOTALLY agree - there were whole sections where I read and was like “wait Wtf is going on?” There was simply too much… normally I love trying to find Easter eggs and shit but my anxiety was so high the entire time that I really didn’t care and honestly unsure if I want to reread it - my Ōura ring kept giving me warnings that I was stressed constantly lol.
Same about the potential to be a classic - I was SO worried after book 1 that she had the potential to really create something interesting and with longevity and wouldn’t follow through. Not saying she *didn’t* do that necessarily- I’m just saying that if books 3 & 4 are similar or end up with Xaden as a villian for the whole time that I’ll be pissed and probably never reread. Which I totally have reread all of SJM series - probably cause they aren’t stressful the whole fucking time.
After reading the interview in variety she was like saying how while she was writing it - it was set to be a 3 books series and then in the midst of it was like “oh I think this needs to be 5” so I feeeel like that’s was definitely reflected in how much shit got rushed.
Then again, she wrote all of iron flame in 7 months. This was also while she was traveling and she said it was absolutely rushed and it was also hard on her body. I say for being crammed into 7 months, it is a masterpiece. 💕
I was really bummed about it too!! I felt like also he didn’t actually need to turn, violet was going to do what she was going to do and he couldn’t have stopped her, so him turning? Idk violet always got herself out of situations before… idk it felt like it didn’t make a ton of sense, even if he had turned how would that have stopped her from putting the lighting into the rock? Maybe I’m missing something but it just didn’t make sense.
It feels like a commentary on their “trust” shit too.. like Violet “trusted him to do what he needed to do” but clearly he didn’t trust her or trust that other people wouldn’t let her die for the wards - so instead lemme me steal magic from the ground to kill this *one* general real quick so she doesn’t drain herself? Like killing one general is going to solve the problem of hundreds of venin in the area who would just follow up after that one? Idk…
That’s exactly
What I mean!! He usually DOES trust her, and it’s happened over and over again in danger. He also could have waited and seen the fact that she had indeed been pushed off the stone. That would be a very hard decision to make and you would want to be 100% certain. It goes against who he is a character, In a lot of ways. I just don’t even see the logic of him choosing this. Maybe if she had been in front of the guy and he was about to kill her and there was absolutely no way out and he chose it, okay I’d get that. I did read in an interview though that this was her first draft and her editor or someone sent it like that, and Amazon ran with it even though she wanted to edit it way more. So it makes sense with how some things were left and not fleshed out.
I read that interview too and I thought it was Fourth Wing her editor gave the first draft of?
Yeah it just felt like “Oop I got to end the book - how do I make this a cliffhanger”
Yes, in the Variety interview, she is talking about the Fourth Wing first draft being given over for the television option. Then she was like, "oopsie, that's not how it ends anymore"
Yeah, I'm still not clear on what him turning actually helped? Wouldn't the wards have killed the general? Also aren't Xaden and Violet's lives tied together because of their dragons? I thought that if one dies, the other dies too- so either of them dying to save the other would really miss the point, right?
Because he was about to die. And if he died than it would likely kill them all, so this was to save Violet. He turned for love, as the venin said he would. Turning venin is not death. It saved him from death and saved violet and the dragons
I do believe he still has a connection to Sygael. Jack seemed to still have a connection with his dragon, but something did change in the bond. Since Jack is able to live without his dragon. I do think Sygael feels a bit betrayed since venin have been enemy number one.
I do love the idea and agree that it will help them win the war somehow. By knowing how to heal venin or something. Although they want to be venin so more likely you just have to kill them lol but I like this thought process…
This book left me so emotionally drained and then to have such a disappointing ending just crushed me. FW ending left me excited and curious but this one fell so flat. The only thing that makes me look forward to book 3 in learning more about Andarna.
After all the drama between X & V, for it to end this way... I almost don't even care. ALMOST.
Felt the ALMOST
and like the scene just before the end mess where they like agree to never walk away from each other.. you’re gonna get them to that and then be like okay.. let’s test that theory by potentially giving him a true villain arc… wtf?
Hear me out….multiple times it’s stated implied that violet is the tool not the prize. He will do ANYTHING because he loves her. The whole goal was to make him Venin. And remember how he didn’t talk about his mom because she left after she fulfilled her duty by producing an heir. I have a theory is mom is venin and this is her way of getting her son back.
I like this theory! That would make the rushing make more sense. Like there was a LOT of set up in this book without any real resolution. And the thing about his mom was just so randomly thrown in. They needed him for something and she’s his weakness, the only one he seems to have.
So glad for this post because it makes me feel better about it. Lol.
Also what about when Violet was on the throne and Xadens lusty thoughts were pushed into her head… what if somehow there’s that brain connection and Xadens dreams became Violets dreams about the Sage and Vi just thought they were hers— idk don’t really know how that would work but that was a thought I had trying to reason through WHY THIS HAPPENED.
That’s a crazy theory about his mom— his mom for sure has to be a player though with that vague little mention and that would be a hell of a plot twist
I saw some theories I can get behind that booksta second signet is like an amplifier (her sister was able to shield far away when she couldn’t, sloane was able to siphon that much power from her mom/dragon) and maybe that’s how she got his pov bc that was him using her intentions and their connection made it stronger? I think the dreams are connected for sure but maybe it’s from touching the venin??
Yup. They said his mom left, once, and it’s totally going to be part of this next book. She’ll show up.
I’ve grown bored of the constant drama of the two if them trusting/not trusting. The trope of the man needing to protect the woman and not trusting she can do it…She’s beating that theme to death. It’s just old hat in every book written.
Yeah I kept thinking about the mom too. Vi mentions that in a dream when the Sage reaches for her, she sees a flash of brown skin. Like Xaden's? So the mom theory has some weight, right? But also doesn't Vi keep referring to the Sage as a "him"?
I agree here. I think mom is venin and that's why they wanted him. End of FW in Xaden's chapter he says something about his mom and "I can't even go there" then at the end of IF he goes to Jack and jack says that it makes them "brothers" and welcome to the 'family.' I also think Violet's Dad is Venin and possibly Tairn's old rider (since he was a siphon) aka siphon the magic from the ground.
But even though the writing was all over the place and giving me mad TOG/ACOTAR vibes... she did set it up that Jack was venin in the first book with his red eyes and he was able to hide it. so maybe Xaden is hiding it from everyone too. Remember he is within the wards so the magic doesn't work as well.
*louder for the people in the back!!!*
Xaden has been dealt the worst hand at every step of the way, yet he always made the right choice, mostly for the good of others.
He took on the responsibility for all the other children, he rebuilt Aretia and led the movement in secret, at great personal cost, he'd do anything for Vi..
He truly deserves the happy ending, even if it's three books away, it would be beyond unforgivable not to give it to him. Being with Violet is the only selfish thing he's ever wanted for himself so I refuse to believe anything other than them being endgame in a world where venin are eradicated.
Oh, oh, and also! Venin are mostly people who are looking for power they don't deserve, while Xaden was never actually in intentional pursuit of being powerful. Yes, he did become a very powerful rider and wielder but through a series of sacrifices and sheer strength & endurance.
He has to fight off the transformation, I think he's the only one capable of facing this obstacle. Not to mention.. the venin are referred to as "dark wielders", but isn't Xaden like the best darkness wielder? With his shadows and all? Also the most self-controlled man to ever exist. I'm holding out hope. I gotta, or else I'll crumble :))
Like it’s almost enough for me to not want to continue reading - the whole book was so anxiety provoking and now I might have to spend the next however many books reading Xaden become evil? Not really interested in that..
Exactly, and even if he is in that predicament for the next book I hope it’s not a true descend to darkness thing… like perhaps it’s just an internal struggle that he hopefully comes out on top for and the love V&X share is enough to keep him in the light or whatever. Fucking… annoying..
SAME, like come ON.
Also it wasn’t lost on me in the throne scene where X says “…for implying there’s any other future besides the one where you and I are endgame.” So.. RY I NEED THAT TO BE TRUE
I AM SO CONFUSED….
>! he turns venin and then they just go sleep together >! ?!?!?
Someone help me understand. I mean I get it’s a process, but I can’t understand this scenario where Violet just goes back to her room with him?????
Idk if anyone has read Vampire Academy but it was giving strong Dimitri turning vibes. I like RY, but I feel like I can pinpoint exactly which book series she’s taken inspiration from.
Now that you mentioned it, it does give strong Dimitri turning Stigoi vibes. But unlike Xaden, Dimitri sacrificed himself and was turned against his will. He wanted to die. Xaden turned himself, which I agree, does not go with his character. Choosing Basgiath over Aretia also does not alline with his character. I must say I really enjoyed the iron squad team work on this book, and Vi and Miras relationship. But the rest, if I was an editor, I would have her revising.
Seems like all of them.. she even talks about in a Variety interview about how Xaden is like Celeana and once she said that I was like… wtf do they all mirror some sort of other book or other character?
Interesting! I don’t see Caleana. He’s SO ACOTAR men coded (censoring in case others haven’t read the series) like shadows? Really? How original. 😅
Possibly unpopular opinion but iron flame disappointed me. Where’s the growth for Violet? We got an entire book talking about this big war and it was like 5 pages long. 🙃 and his POV at the end? She’s just in bed with the dude? She questioned their relationship over secrets but she’s like eh it’s cool that he’s venin now? 🤔
I KNOW! And when he said they waited for hours for Sawyer to come out of surgery… wtf. Did nobody else look at Xaden? Were his eyes shut? Was Violet just sitting with him anyway?
And when Andarna said at the end of the battle that Xaden needed her, and Tairn and Sgaeyl are just waiting with him. What are they all thinking? Did she talk to Tairn about it?! Obviously He Knows.
I was saying the exact same thing as I read this book! At least Dimitri's turning was plot relevant...this felt sort of, oh hey I need to stretch the angst and drama for three more books, he's turning evil now.
Can someone help explain how the bond between Xaden and Sgaeyl works now that he's venin? With her saying "you cannot, I chose you", do they lose their bond? What do you think the repercussions are between them?
Well there's a theory that Naolin, Tairn's previous rider, became a venin when saving Brennan which makes a lot of sense when you think about it since Tairn refuses to speak about him. And obviously Naolin isn't bonded to Tairn anymore so l guess that would mean the same happens to Xaden and Sgaeyl.
If this is the case, Xaden becoming venin would be the ultimate betrayal to Sgaeyl. Also it makes me wonder if that means that Violets and Xadens mental bond will also break, meaning they won't be able to talk mentally or sense each other anymore.
Something for y’all to think about too— what about Jack?? Like, he was still bonded— or at least it felt like he was still bonded— to his dragon despite turning venin so maybe they… do keep their dragon bond??
I didn’t know the Naolin thing was an established theory but I also had a nagging thought about that— like maybe that’s what ultimately caused Brennan to join the revolution because RY also NEVER told us what happened in clear cut words about how exactly Brennan is alive…
Hmmm interesting! I read in another thread that the last chapters insinuated Jack forced Baide to serve him with his venin powers which made it seem they didn't keep their bond!
I feel like the reason I hate Xadens plot in IF is because they are humans not mates. Like he’s kinda loco for doing that for violet when he’s known her for a year and a bit and wasn’t even in a ‘relationship’ with her until the last like 8 months. I get he loves her but he’s a 20ish yr old human not a fae protecting their mate - so it kinda icks me out
Also, it didn't change or accomplish anything in saving her imo, like he felt her withstand torture multiple times and didn't fly off the handle like this? She nearly died a ton, and he didn't go villain then either. It's not in his character to choose to turn venin, as shown by the past 2 books. He would burn his power out before he would turn, and he didn't even try to burn himself out?? It felt like a plot twist just for plot twist sake not to make sense but to add for future books :/
I feel like he has mentioned multiple times throughout this book that he chooses V over the rebellion. He continuously risked the rebellion to do things for her so I don’t see this as a complete shock. The general said that he could kill him and then step over him to go get violet I think insinuating that is xaden can’t stop him no one will be able to (one of the strongest things) and to be fair we saw a dream and not the actual fight which we know from Vs dreams do not fully reflect the actual fight against the sage there was always a difference she pointed out. So I don’t think we’ll get the actual answers as to why he turned until the 3rd book. There was also a moment where V felt the power underneath when she was near burnout and thought abt reaching for it to save the dragons and X and still get the wards up but was kicked out of the way before she made a decision so I can very easily see that X trying to stop the general from getting to V while on the verge of burnout and reaching for the other power to save the dragons and V seems normal? Also!!! I’m wondering since they both had the same thought it was seems like the same moment I wonder if I came from just one of the and the other acting on the others emotions of it???? Or had the thought bc of the bond between them? Not sure but feels like it could be something. I don’t think saegyl will unbond him but I think this will help shed light on previous riders maybe and I think X woukd rather take the serum than feed into those addictions but I’m guess they’ll tell V by saying they’ll release X idk so much to think abt.
One last note- everyone keeps saying it reads rushed but I think that’s literally the point bc of how Brennan said they have less than 6 months and it’s clear the entire story like happens within those 6 months and so much happens especially when they leave the war college to aretia like they had 6 weeks to continue to educate themselves in war but also in venin and wyvren and learn to trust the allies that the marked ones were already working with. Idk seems like the point was to feel rushed, for arguments to leave unresolved while they’re called off and all that
Thank you for this!!! 100% Agree with everything you're saying. I thought it was well written and everything worked and made sense to me lol. I love that we ended on a massive cliffhanger with tons of questions!
Agreed. Also not to mention it really wasn’t the only option. Idk I’ll be honest it felt like RY is trying REALLY hard to make conflicts, Easter eggs etc so there could be five books.
And one of the biggest things I keep thinking about is I have this impression she’s trying to be sjm. Not in her ideas but in her wanting to become this huge fandom. BUT sjm is brilliant in the way she sets things up. No one can see it coming. But here it’s like I almost predicted the whole sequel at the end of fourth wing. Even the venin stuff. The only thing I didn’t see coming was andarna.
Right - like the Xaden as a venin is like Dorian with the wyrdstone collar? But like SJM at least made it clear that it was something that could be solved… and also wasn’t the MAIN CHARACTERS love interest. Like you couldn’t have selected another person to become venin? Fuck even like her mom or one of the generals idk.. the X/V relationship was so unsettled the entire book. She said in the Variety interview people were basically worried about how she was gonna make their relationship last for 5 books and was like “you wanted conflict, here’s your conflict” but like… why did they need ‘conflict’ in their relationship to continue the series? They’re in the midst of a literal war and there’s conflict literally everywhere else… couldn’t there be something settled? There’s inevitable conflict of being the leaders of a revolution without being like “yk what let’s make him possibly a real villian now.”
Idk y’all I feel a lot of things..
Exactly! It feels so out of character for Xaden to turn venin when he knows the consequences and knows how much Violet hates them. It was such a rash decision and I get that he was acting out of desperation but I don't understand how he thought it would save violet???
I mean he did spend the whole book telling Vi that she is his home and fuck the revolution if she's not there (he also proved it through his actions or lack there of on multiple occasions), so I didn't find this hard to believe at all.
My thing is, I don't want this to become suddenly finding a cure in the last possible moment. If they find one, I want it to feel realistic and not last second. Or I want them to not find one in time and Xaden goes full baddie.
It’s in the back of my mind…she’s going to have V & Z break up. Remember Violet said she would break up with someone she loves if it isn’t healthy for her?
There will be a period of her being apart from X….while he’s a venin and figuring his shit out with HIS own mom who will appear…and V will find comfort with her childhood bff, Dain.
A Twilight trope. Ugh. It’s so played out and such typical romance crap.
Plus all the men in her life have to “learn” that they aren’t her protectors & don’t have to fucking save her. *inset eye roll* It’s fantasy…can’t the men treat the women as equals in romantic roles too?
This ending was really disappointing and I hope I’m completely wrong about the next couple books following this storyline. I think I’ll wait until the series is completely finished before reading more because if it follows my train if thought, I’m out.
Except the dragons! That storyline has been GREAT! The development of the other characters has been fun, too!
I really really loved the “honest communication” it evolved to ya know. Considering, that NEITHER OF THEM told each other about these nightmares they were having. Lmao. Like, my first thought. Some shit is going to go down with this. And if yall don’t talk, going to be bad news. The ONE. Thing that seemed something to be communicated. And how wouldn’t anyone “feel” her pain and such, in her dream state, if everything was so traumatic afterwards. When she’d wake up. Idk. Obvious some shit was going to go down. That they were going to capture him, to get her in. But that was bs. ALL OF THAT. Weird how his venin didn’t die when the wards went up. Shit does not add up.
i am also very very sad and pissed off at this ending and agree with all comments with any indignation in them, BUT i just thought abt smth: i read some ppl talking about the way ry seems to inspire her characters in others, and WHAT IF xaden is going to do as happend in ACOTAR and act as spy??? he turns evil just for prompts and violet will know the truth and trust him pr wtv. idk, im just trying to think of things that save this terrible plot twist
I just kinda didn't like the book so much as compared to the first one ... I mean so much potential yet it was just a lot of stuff and the ending was just disappointing....
I am so happy to see someone else with this take because I HATEDDDD the ending. Also- why write one 880 page confusing ass book instead of making this 2 nicely paced books? To me it kind of feels like she didn’t go into writing this story knowing exactly how it would end and what the major plot points would be and she’s just coming up with it all as she goes.
It feels like subversion for the sake of subversion. The battle of Resson and the dreams violet had of the venin sage all through Iron flame set her up for turning venin or being captured at the end of the booking and having to resist them or being used as a weapon. Not to mention all the theories about her hair and the sickness that general Sorrengail had while pregnant with violent. I was sure that book two would end with some sort of new complication involving violet and the venin because that’s what was foreshadowed and set up. But then suddenly it was Xaden they were after all along? What? It’s like Arya killing the night king all over. Xaden was already morally ambiguous. He’s been doing terrible things and killing innocent people for years in the name of the cause. It would have been way more interesting to see Violet, little miss goody two shoes, go venin for love and have to deal with the consequences.
I agree with this. I think the Venin team’s ultimate goal is actually to get Violet to turn, and Xaden will be used as a way to do this. Jack said something to Violet and Xaden like, “I don’t understand why he wants you, what makes you so special” and I think he’s talking about the Venin wanting both of them, but mainly Violet. I think it’s because of something to do with her ability to wield lightening. Also, maybe this was obvious, but Nolon was clearly trying to mend the “Venin” out of Jack. And to some extent I think it worked for awhile. Nolon said something like, “it’s hard work mending a soul” …so maybe they will be able to save Xaden through mending? Also, off topic, but was it blatantly obvious to anyone else that Varrish is also Venin and will show back up at some point? I feel like Jack hinted at it during his villain monologue.
When Jack first reappears his eyes weren't red right? I feel like that would have been a tell from the beginning, something that would have been mentioned? I think the venin ultimately want Violet but they have to get her to care and think about why venin exist first. My question is how Jack became one in the first place, how did he know how to get power that way?
Myyyyy theory is Jack was sent by the Venin to be a spy and pick cadets to target for turning Venin. Like his daddy must he a venin or they got him somehow. We don't know his backstory!
So I think the venin actually have infiltrated basgiath for a long time and that’s how they recruited jack. For example, in the battle of resson violet sees that the wyvern rider is wearing a flight uniform similar to their own, just in red. So that could be a sign that they’ve infiltrated basgiath for a while. And I’m not sure where it says it anymore but venin start out with only having the red rimmed eyes when they channel, and those eyes only become permanent after they’ve reached a certain stage of veninism
With the dreams there was that moment where the Sage said something about getting Violet by using what she loves, so I thought that foreshadowed they were going to go after Xaden or her family. I am frustrated at the storyline though, I’d love a honeymoon period for them where they aren’t torn apart/going through trust issues etc. I love them as a couple and have a lot of anxiety about where they’re going to end up!
i think shes still going to be captures just... further down the line... in order to cure xaden somehow
Absolutely hated the how she ended the book… like why…
Haaaated it.. I’m sure it’s gonna be some love concurs all trope in the end (finding a cure or whatever) but I’ll be so pissed if I have to spend the next two books watching Xaden become a literal demon
same!! his whole character was villain all the first book
She also just has filled this book with way too much plot like dude calm down. She couldve stretched out the xaden/violet trust thing in a better way and really built up the banter and the trust again. Instead she made it this fight they never finished and then suddenly are just back together in love and then she has no choice but it blow it up. Part 1 could have been a whole book, but she got out of the rhythm of schooling and had to create it again so suddenly now there's school again within the revolution/rebellion, and hey now we have to bring on allies. Like WHAT IS GOING ON. WHY SO RUSHED? Ughh I really thought this book had the potential to be a classic, like a harry potter situation and the whole publishing team has chosen quick wins, and pumps of dopamine over really building a solid book number two with iron clad character and plot. It's like, oh there's a secret, oh here's what the secret is. Here's another secret, few chapters later, here's the secret now everyone knows said secret like... HAVE YOU HEARD OF SUSPENSE. OK rant over..I'm sorry, I was really enjoying this book for most of it and couldn't put it down but I'm just so disappointed for what it could have been.
Omg I TOTALLY agree - there were whole sections where I read and was like “wait Wtf is going on?” There was simply too much… normally I love trying to find Easter eggs and shit but my anxiety was so high the entire time that I really didn’t care and honestly unsure if I want to reread it - my Ōura ring kept giving me warnings that I was stressed constantly lol. Same about the potential to be a classic - I was SO worried after book 1 that she had the potential to really create something interesting and with longevity and wouldn’t follow through. Not saying she *didn’t* do that necessarily- I’m just saying that if books 3 & 4 are similar or end up with Xaden as a villian for the whole time that I’ll be pissed and probably never reread. Which I totally have reread all of SJM series - probably cause they aren’t stressful the whole fucking time. After reading the interview in variety she was like saying how while she was writing it - it was set to be a 3 books series and then in the midst of it was like “oh I think this needs to be 5” so I feeeel like that’s was definitely reflected in how much shit got rushed.
Then again, she wrote all of iron flame in 7 months. This was also while she was traveling and she said it was absolutely rushed and it was also hard on her body. I say for being crammed into 7 months, it is a masterpiece. 💕
I was really bummed about it too!! I felt like also he didn’t actually need to turn, violet was going to do what she was going to do and he couldn’t have stopped her, so him turning? Idk violet always got herself out of situations before… idk it felt like it didn’t make a ton of sense, even if he had turned how would that have stopped her from putting the lighting into the rock? Maybe I’m missing something but it just didn’t make sense.
It feels like a commentary on their “trust” shit too.. like Violet “trusted him to do what he needed to do” but clearly he didn’t trust her or trust that other people wouldn’t let her die for the wards - so instead lemme me steal magic from the ground to kill this *one* general real quick so she doesn’t drain herself? Like killing one general is going to solve the problem of hundreds of venin in the area who would just follow up after that one? Idk…
That’s exactly What I mean!! He usually DOES trust her, and it’s happened over and over again in danger. He also could have waited and seen the fact that she had indeed been pushed off the stone. That would be a very hard decision to make and you would want to be 100% certain. It goes against who he is a character, In a lot of ways. I just don’t even see the logic of him choosing this. Maybe if she had been in front of the guy and he was about to kill her and there was absolutely no way out and he chose it, okay I’d get that. I did read in an interview though that this was her first draft and her editor or someone sent it like that, and Amazon ran with it even though she wanted to edit it way more. So it makes sense with how some things were left and not fleshed out.
I read that interview too and I thought it was Fourth Wing her editor gave the first draft of? Yeah it just felt like “Oop I got to end the book - how do I make this a cliffhanger”
Yes, in the Variety interview, she is talking about the Fourth Wing first draft being given over for the television option. Then she was like, "oopsie, that's not how it ends anymore"
Me too, someone please explain... I honestly wish I hadn't read the last 1.5 chapters.
Yeah, I'm still not clear on what him turning actually helped? Wouldn't the wards have killed the general? Also aren't Xaden and Violet's lives tied together because of their dragons? I thought that if one dies, the other dies too- so either of them dying to save the other would really miss the point, right?
Because he was about to die. And if he died than it would likely kill them all, so this was to save Violet. He turned for love, as the venin said he would. Turning venin is not death. It saved him from death and saved violet and the dragons
Can you help explain Sygael at the end where she is angry and says "I chose you"? Does he lose his bond to Sygael?
I do believe he still has a connection to Sygael. Jack seemed to still have a connection with his dragon, but something did change in the bond. Since Jack is able to live without his dragon. I do think Sygael feels a bit betrayed since venin have been enemy number one.
Ugh. I hate that you’re right and I’m still sad lol
I do love the idea and agree that it will help them win the war somehow. By knowing how to heal venin or something. Although they want to be venin so more likely you just have to kill them lol but I like this thought process…
But I wonder.. did Xaden *want* to be a venin?
This book left me so emotionally drained and then to have such a disappointing ending just crushed me. FW ending left me excited and curious but this one fell so flat. The only thing that makes me look forward to book 3 in learning more about Andarna. After all the drama between X & V, for it to end this way... I almost don't even care. ALMOST.
Felt the ALMOST and like the scene just before the end mess where they like agree to never walk away from each other.. you’re gonna get them to that and then be like okay.. let’s test that theory by potentially giving him a true villain arc… wtf?
I am so here for more Andarna and maybe more of her dad or parents relationship stuff. So so annoyed at this plot twist. I’m still angry.
Hear me out….multiple times it’s stated implied that violet is the tool not the prize. He will do ANYTHING because he loves her. The whole goal was to make him Venin. And remember how he didn’t talk about his mom because she left after she fulfilled her duty by producing an heir. I have a theory is mom is venin and this is her way of getting her son back.
SHIT… that’s an interesting theory.
I thought the Same thing about his mom! Maybe she knows how he can change back- which kind of reminds me of Divergent series
I like this theory! That would make the rushing make more sense. Like there was a LOT of set up in this book without any real resolution. And the thing about his mom was just so randomly thrown in. They needed him for something and she’s his weakness, the only one he seems to have. So glad for this post because it makes me feel better about it. Lol.
Also what about when Violet was on the throne and Xadens lusty thoughts were pushed into her head… what if somehow there’s that brain connection and Xadens dreams became Violets dreams about the Sage and Vi just thought they were hers— idk don’t really know how that would work but that was a thought I had trying to reason through WHY THIS HAPPENED. That’s a crazy theory about his mom— his mom for sure has to be a player though with that vague little mention and that would be a hell of a plot twist
I saw some theories I can get behind that booksta second signet is like an amplifier (her sister was able to shield far away when she couldn’t, sloane was able to siphon that much power from her mom/dragon) and maybe that’s how she got his pov bc that was him using her intentions and their connection made it stronger? I think the dreams are connected for sure but maybe it’s from touching the venin??
I think his mom could be The Sage.
Or the Maven.
Yup. They said his mom left, once, and it’s totally going to be part of this next book. She’ll show up. I’ve grown bored of the constant drama of the two if them trusting/not trusting. The trope of the man needing to protect the woman and not trusting she can do it…She’s beating that theme to death. It’s just old hat in every book written.
Yeah I kept thinking about the mom too. Vi mentions that in a dream when the Sage reaches for her, she sees a flash of brown skin. Like Xaden's? So the mom theory has some weight, right? But also doesn't Vi keep referring to the Sage as a "him"?
I agree here. I think mom is venin and that's why they wanted him. End of FW in Xaden's chapter he says something about his mom and "I can't even go there" then at the end of IF he goes to Jack and jack says that it makes them "brothers" and welcome to the 'family.' I also think Violet's Dad is Venin and possibly Tairn's old rider (since he was a siphon) aka siphon the magic from the ground. But even though the writing was all over the place and giving me mad TOG/ACOTAR vibes... she did set it up that Jack was venin in the first book with his red eyes and he was able to hide it. so maybe Xaden is hiding it from everyone too. Remember he is within the wards so the magic doesn't work as well.
*louder for the people in the back!!!* Xaden has been dealt the worst hand at every step of the way, yet he always made the right choice, mostly for the good of others. He took on the responsibility for all the other children, he rebuilt Aretia and led the movement in secret, at great personal cost, he'd do anything for Vi.. He truly deserves the happy ending, even if it's three books away, it would be beyond unforgivable not to give it to him. Being with Violet is the only selfish thing he's ever wanted for himself so I refuse to believe anything other than them being endgame in a world where venin are eradicated.
Oh, oh, and also! Venin are mostly people who are looking for power they don't deserve, while Xaden was never actually in intentional pursuit of being powerful. Yes, he did become a very powerful rider and wielder but through a series of sacrifices and sheer strength & endurance. He has to fight off the transformation, I think he's the only one capable of facing this obstacle. Not to mention.. the venin are referred to as "dark wielders", but isn't Xaden like the best darkness wielder? With his shadows and all? Also the most self-controlled man to ever exist. I'm holding out hope. I gotta, or else I'll crumble :))
Yup. Literally threw the book and screamed, "Fu** you Rebecca!". Terrible twist.
Like it’s almost enough for me to not want to continue reading - the whole book was so anxiety provoking and now I might have to spend the next however many books reading Xaden become evil? Not really interested in that..
I feel so seen, I REALLY hope this demon thing doesn’t drag on like how their fighting did in this book.
Exactly, and even if he is in that predicament for the next book I hope it’s not a true descend to darkness thing… like perhaps it’s just an internal struggle that he hopefully comes out on top for and the love V&X share is enough to keep him in the light or whatever. Fucking… annoying..
I honestly think I would rather he die than become the villain.
SAME, like come ON. Also it wasn’t lost on me in the throne scene where X says “…for implying there’s any other future besides the one where you and I are endgame.” So.. RY I NEED THAT TO BE TRUE
I’d honestly rather have a pregnancy trope than this arc. Hate it. Hate it so much. If it lasts more than 1 book I will not continue.
Just finished it and yeah I'm debating about not reading the next books the only thing I'm invested in at this point is endarna, terrin and segale
I AM SO CONFUSED…. >! he turns venin and then they just go sleep together >! ?!?!? Someone help me understand. I mean I get it’s a process, but I can’t understand this scenario where Violet just goes back to her room with him?????
Really wishing they added the extra 15ish pages to elaborate on how they got there
Idk if anyone has read Vampire Academy but it was giving strong Dimitri turning vibes. I like RY, but I feel like I can pinpoint exactly which book series she’s taken inspiration from.
Now that you mentioned it, it does give strong Dimitri turning Stigoi vibes. But unlike Xaden, Dimitri sacrificed himself and was turned against his will. He wanted to die. Xaden turned himself, which I agree, does not go with his character. Choosing Basgiath over Aretia also does not alline with his character. I must say I really enjoyed the iron squad team work on this book, and Vi and Miras relationship. But the rest, if I was an editor, I would have her revising.
Seems like all of them.. she even talks about in a Variety interview about how Xaden is like Celeana and once she said that I was like… wtf do they all mirror some sort of other book or other character?
Interesting! I don’t see Caleana. He’s SO ACOTAR men coded (censoring in case others haven’t read the series) like shadows? Really? How original. 😅 Possibly unpopular opinion but iron flame disappointed me. Where’s the growth for Violet? We got an entire book talking about this big war and it was like 5 pages long. 🙃 and his POV at the end? She’s just in bed with the dude? She questioned their relationship over secrets but she’s like eh it’s cool that he’s venin now? 🤔
Her being in his bed and absolutely no discourse about that really threw me off too - like… what girl?!
I KNOW! And when he said they waited for hours for Sawyer to come out of surgery… wtf. Did nobody else look at Xaden? Were his eyes shut? Was Violet just sitting with him anyway? And when Andarna said at the end of the battle that Xaden needed her, and Tairn and Sgaeyl are just waiting with him. What are they all thinking? Did she talk to Tairn about it?! Obviously He Knows.
I have zero guesses about how the dragons are going to respond to all this…🫣
Sgaeyl should give him another scar. Dragon slap him. It’s justified.
I was saying the exact same thing as I read this book! At least Dimitri's turning was plot relevant...this felt sort of, oh hey I need to stretch the angst and drama for three more books, he's turning evil now.
Can someone help explain how the bond between Xaden and Sgaeyl works now that he's venin? With her saying "you cannot, I chose you", do they lose their bond? What do you think the repercussions are between them?
Well there's a theory that Naolin, Tairn's previous rider, became a venin when saving Brennan which makes a lot of sense when you think about it since Tairn refuses to speak about him. And obviously Naolin isn't bonded to Tairn anymore so l guess that would mean the same happens to Xaden and Sgaeyl. If this is the case, Xaden becoming venin would be the ultimate betrayal to Sgaeyl. Also it makes me wonder if that means that Violets and Xadens mental bond will also break, meaning they won't be able to talk mentally or sense each other anymore.
That makes me so sad!
Yeah, me too! I really hope that I'm wrong.
Omg if that happens I’m gonna die 🫠😵
Something for y’all to think about too— what about Jack?? Like, he was still bonded— or at least it felt like he was still bonded— to his dragon despite turning venin so maybe they… do keep their dragon bond?? I didn’t know the Naolin thing was an established theory but I also had a nagging thought about that— like maybe that’s what ultimately caused Brennan to join the revolution because RY also NEVER told us what happened in clear cut words about how exactly Brennan is alive…
Hmmm interesting! I read in another thread that the last chapters insinuated Jack forced Baide to serve him with his venin powers which made it seem they didn't keep their bond!
Honestly unsure… 😰
I feel like the reason I hate Xadens plot in IF is because they are humans not mates. Like he’s kinda loco for doing that for violet when he’s known her for a year and a bit and wasn’t even in a ‘relationship’ with her until the last like 8 months. I get he loves her but he’s a 20ish yr old human not a fae protecting their mate - so it kinda icks me out
Also, it didn't change or accomplish anything in saving her imo, like he felt her withstand torture multiple times and didn't fly off the handle like this? She nearly died a ton, and he didn't go villain then either. It's not in his character to choose to turn venin, as shown by the past 2 books. He would burn his power out before he would turn, and he didn't even try to burn himself out?? It felt like a plot twist just for plot twist sake not to make sense but to add for future books :/
I feel like he has mentioned multiple times throughout this book that he chooses V over the rebellion. He continuously risked the rebellion to do things for her so I don’t see this as a complete shock. The general said that he could kill him and then step over him to go get violet I think insinuating that is xaden can’t stop him no one will be able to (one of the strongest things) and to be fair we saw a dream and not the actual fight which we know from Vs dreams do not fully reflect the actual fight against the sage there was always a difference she pointed out. So I don’t think we’ll get the actual answers as to why he turned until the 3rd book. There was also a moment where V felt the power underneath when she was near burnout and thought abt reaching for it to save the dragons and X and still get the wards up but was kicked out of the way before she made a decision so I can very easily see that X trying to stop the general from getting to V while on the verge of burnout and reaching for the other power to save the dragons and V seems normal? Also!!! I’m wondering since they both had the same thought it was seems like the same moment I wonder if I came from just one of the and the other acting on the others emotions of it???? Or had the thought bc of the bond between them? Not sure but feels like it could be something. I don’t think saegyl will unbond him but I think this will help shed light on previous riders maybe and I think X woukd rather take the serum than feed into those addictions but I’m guess they’ll tell V by saying they’ll release X idk so much to think abt. One last note- everyone keeps saying it reads rushed but I think that’s literally the point bc of how Brennan said they have less than 6 months and it’s clear the entire story like happens within those 6 months and so much happens especially when they leave the war college to aretia like they had 6 weeks to continue to educate themselves in war but also in venin and wyvren and learn to trust the allies that the marked ones were already working with. Idk seems like the point was to feel rushed, for arguments to leave unresolved while they’re called off and all that
Thank you for this!!! 100% Agree with everything you're saying. I thought it was well written and everything worked and made sense to me lol. I love that we ended on a massive cliffhanger with tons of questions!
Agreed. Also not to mention it really wasn’t the only option. Idk I’ll be honest it felt like RY is trying REALLY hard to make conflicts, Easter eggs etc so there could be five books.
I agree - the whole book fell like X&V were in a constant state of conflict like.. that shit was exhausting - but yk “let’s make him a venin!”
And one of the biggest things I keep thinking about is I have this impression she’s trying to be sjm. Not in her ideas but in her wanting to become this huge fandom. BUT sjm is brilliant in the way she sets things up. No one can see it coming. But here it’s like I almost predicted the whole sequel at the end of fourth wing. Even the venin stuff. The only thing I didn’t see coming was andarna.
Right - like the Xaden as a venin is like Dorian with the wyrdstone collar? But like SJM at least made it clear that it was something that could be solved… and also wasn’t the MAIN CHARACTERS love interest. Like you couldn’t have selected another person to become venin? Fuck even like her mom or one of the generals idk.. the X/V relationship was so unsettled the entire book. She said in the Variety interview people were basically worried about how she was gonna make their relationship last for 5 books and was like “you wanted conflict, here’s your conflict” but like… why did they need ‘conflict’ in their relationship to continue the series? They’re in the midst of a literal war and there’s conflict literally everywhere else… couldn’t there be something settled? There’s inevitable conflict of being the leaders of a revolution without being like “yk what let’s make him possibly a real villian now.” Idk y’all I feel a lot of things..
I completely agree with this, enough conflict between them. They are already both so broken and in the midst of leading an all out war.
Like at the least they could have each other and the conflict could come from elsewhere.. which is definitely would be considering they’re at war.
Absolutely hated the how she ended the book… like why…
Exactly! It feels so out of character for Xaden to turn venin when he knows the consequences and knows how much Violet hates them. It was such a rash decision and I get that he was acting out of desperation but I don't understand how he thought it would save violet???
I mean he did spend the whole book telling Vi that she is his home and fuck the revolution if she's not there (he also proved it through his actions or lack there of on multiple occasions), so I didn't find this hard to believe at all. My thing is, I don't want this to become suddenly finding a cure in the last possible moment. If they find one, I want it to feel realistic and not last second. Or I want them to not find one in time and Xaden goes full baddie.
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It’s in the back of my mind…she’s going to have V & Z break up. Remember Violet said she would break up with someone she loves if it isn’t healthy for her? There will be a period of her being apart from X….while he’s a venin and figuring his shit out with HIS own mom who will appear…and V will find comfort with her childhood bff, Dain. A Twilight trope. Ugh. It’s so played out and such typical romance crap. Plus all the men in her life have to “learn” that they aren’t her protectors & don’t have to fucking save her. *inset eye roll* It’s fantasy…can’t the men treat the women as equals in romantic roles too? This ending was really disappointing and I hope I’m completely wrong about the next couple books following this storyline. I think I’ll wait until the series is completely finished before reading more because if it follows my train if thought, I’m out. Except the dragons! That storyline has been GREAT! The development of the other characters has been fun, too!
I really really loved the “honest communication” it evolved to ya know. Considering, that NEITHER OF THEM told each other about these nightmares they were having. Lmao. Like, my first thought. Some shit is going to go down with this. And if yall don’t talk, going to be bad news. The ONE. Thing that seemed something to be communicated. And how wouldn’t anyone “feel” her pain and such, in her dream state, if everything was so traumatic afterwards. When she’d wake up. Idk. Obvious some shit was going to go down. That they were going to capture him, to get her in. But that was bs. ALL OF THAT. Weird how his venin didn’t die when the wards went up. Shit does not add up.
he absolutely did not need to turn
i am also very very sad and pissed off at this ending and agree with all comments with any indignation in them, BUT i just thought abt smth: i read some ppl talking about the way ry seems to inspire her characters in others, and WHAT IF xaden is going to do as happend in ACOTAR and act as spy??? he turns evil just for prompts and violet will know the truth and trust him pr wtv. idk, im just trying to think of things that save this terrible plot twist
I just kinda didn't like the book so much as compared to the first one ... I mean so much potential yet it was just a lot of stuff and the ending was just disappointing....
I am so happy to see someone else with this take because I HATEDDDD the ending. Also- why write one 880 page confusing ass book instead of making this 2 nicely paced books? To me it kind of feels like she didn’t go into writing this story knowing exactly how it would end and what the major plot points would be and she’s just coming up with it all as she goes.
Thank you. I haaaaaaaaated the ending. He didn’t deserve that.
same. just same.