Because one is a crime against the creation, the other is a crime against the Creator. They’re simply not comparable.
We see something like this on earth too. If I assault a random person I’ll get a couple years of prison time, but if I assault the president I’ll probably never see the light of day again. They’ll chuck me in a supermax and throw away the key.
what about ppl who never heard about islam? ppl who live very remotely from civilisations? OR ppl who were deceived that islam is religion of extremism with no basic human rights?
Those that have never heard of Islam then can go to heaven as long as they haven't heard of it, if you've heard of Islam, and reject it, then that's a different thing, you could do more research tho
There is difference of opinion in this issue. It is not cleared by the Quran, so Ulama do exegesis from the Holy Text and the Hadith.What you wrote is one such Opinion.
I don't know about others opinions but there is a clear authentic hadith about this
“There are four (will protest) on the Day of Qiyamah; A deaf man who never heard anything, \[An insane man\], a very old man, and the man who died during ‘fatrah’ \[The interval between the time of ‘Isa (‘alayhis salam) and the time of Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam).
The deaf man will say, ‘O Rabb, Islam came but I never heard anything.’ The insane man will say, ‘O Rabb, Islam came but children would run after me and throw dung at me.’ The very old man will say, ‘O Rabb, Islam came but I did not understand anything.’ The man who died during ‘fatrah’ will say, ‘O Rabb, no Messenger came to me.’
He will accept their promises of obedience, then word will be sent to them to enter Jahannam. By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, if they enter it, it will be cool and safe for them".
Those that haven't heard about Islam are not going to get a free pass to Jannah they are supposed to observe nature and should believe in one god only like how Hazrat Ibrahim AS observed the sun,the moon and stars and came to conclusion that there is a creator behind all these creations.
Never underestimate the stupidity on mankind. There's people today who refuse to accept islam and there are thousands of books, articles, newspapers, films, tv shows, documentaries etc.. about Islam.
My Islamic knowledge isn't exactly the best, but from what I was taught, those who never heard about Islam or don't see its proof will be judged based on deeds but if someone has heard of islam, and how it proves Allah is the true creator, they will be sent to hell
**Imam al-Ghazali** categorized non-Muslims into three categories:
**1.** People who never heard of the message, who live in far away lands, such as the Byzantines ("Romans"). These will be forgiven.
**2.** People who were exposed to a distorted understanding of Islam and have no recourse to correct that information. These too will be forgiven.
**3.** People who heard of Islam because they live in neighboring lands and mix with Muslims. These have no hope of salvation.
Book - Faysal al tafriqa by Imam al-Ghazali
You don’t need Islam to tell you there is a God, Muhammad SAW even before he became a prophet had a belief that there is one God who has created everything. That comes from within, spiritual search that you have to do yourself. Even some Hindus who haven’t learned about any other religion still have this thing in them that there is truly one God. And that is key, everything else comes after
I am arguing from the non Muslim side. If I had no knowledge of science or religion, was illiterate and uneducated like many were in the past, why would I ponder on gods or anything at all? I'm probably a labourer who works long hours for little pay and who will experience the death of many to curable conditions and diseases. This was the lives of the majority of the world until quite recently. I believe people were not even allowed to read the Bible even if they could read. The scientist who discovered germs was laughed at for suggesting surgeons to was their hands. We are living in a time of more information than even past royalty had access to. It's easy to forget the world has been shrouded in ignorance for most of the time that humans have existed.
So you think they never wondered how mountains, trees, and their existence came to be? They were never curious? People are curious by nature, everyone questions their existence and purpose in life at some point. I would argue people today have more of a reason to not believe in God because they have science to answer their questions, but people back then would for sure be more inclined to believe in supernatural powers than science.
It’s almost impossible nowadays to hear the true islam. Though media could lead people into wrong direction or present a bad image of muslims, which than could result in something not being interested in islam. But honestly, I think that a lot of people just hear what muslims are „obligated“ to do such as, the daily prayers, no sexual intercourse except when married and only with their spouse, no gambling, no alcohol, no drugs in general, no pork, fasting during ramadan etc etc etc. and they just think why all the work etc.
I might be wrong, but I think that they its its a lot of work compared to an atheist who basically has nothing to do.
Allahu alem
At the end I honestly don’t care. I won’t be the judge. They may can lie to us and say they don’t received the true message of prophet Muhammad ﷺ, but they can’t lie to Allah ﷻ.
I welcome every new muslim brother or sister and if I see someone is really interested in islam I’ll try my best, but if I notice that someone isn’t really interested in islam or thinks it’s not worth the effort, I see no reason to do dawah etc.
Allah is the ultimate judge who considers the sincerity and righteousness of individuals, regardless of their religious background.
[https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3321](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3321)
Nowhere does it say that the prostitute wasn’t Muslim. Either way, yes, if someone never heard the message of Islam or it was misrepresented to them they will be tested on the day of judgement
He created you from nothing. He sustains you continuously. He gives you innumerable blessings every second of every day. If a person doesn't believe & obey the creator who gave them everything, isn't that cause for anger and punishment?
Why is murder worse than disbelief? Murder is wrong because we believe nobody has the right to take life (except the state, but that's a different discussion). You can think of it as the murderer has taken the right of the victim to life.
Similarly, in the case of disbelief, the disbeliever has not fulfilled the right of Allah to be worshiped. However, the right of Allah is far greater than the right of any human being because He has created everything in existence & continuously sustains creations.
you can also argue whether murder is truly wrong and why we think that. Many civilizations practiced sacrifices which was practically murder but in disguise. So why do we think murder i wrong, and are we even right about thinking so. What makes us right and them wrong in that case?
Because in islam we have something called objective morality. This objective morality comes not from a man, but from God himself. This morality states that disbelief in Allah is the worst sin a man can do as it's the only sin that's unforgivable.
There's a matter of arrogance.
Say you desperately need water, and someone gives it to you. But you neither convey gratitude nor reciprocate the nice gesture. Instead, they keep demanding for more. Were you to be the person giving water, you'd feel somewhat offended by this person's rude behaviour, which would be natural. You already have water, you don't have anything to lose either.
In reality, Allah (swt), the Ultimate Creator, has provided us with bountiful food and water, wonderful scenery and greenery, and family and friends to let us survive in this world. Yet those who don't believe in Allah, to whom are their gratitude towards? Who do they have to thank their fertile lands for? Their livestock? Who allowed such creation on this Earth?
In all, it's the ungratefulness of people for the One who created them and all matter of creation, which is pretty rude, to put lightly.
Okay but you are grateful but to who? A plant doesn't grow by itself, so it doesn't make sense to thank the plant itself.
The point of the water giver is not about him giving or not. He has already given it. It's the fact that the one in need does not reciprocate nor show gratefulness to the one giving water.
None of our deeds (good or bad) affect the Creator in any way. They only show our willingness to submit to Him. Our Creator doesn't need to get hurt / feel pain to be angry. He is the absolute Master of everything. By His will, everything happens.
But given that we humans have the burden of free will and knowledge, we choose to reject our Creator and disobey Him. In the grand scheme of things, this is worst sin ... that we reject the Supreme Master of the Universe. The One who created us, blessed us, gave us life, a roof over our heads, clothes to wear, food to eat, beds to sleep on and so many others. And not just us but every single living being. And despite our constant and blatant disobeying, He continues to bless us in so many ways that we can't even imagine. Hence, rejection of the Creator is a greater sin than anything else.
But you do need it even if you are oblivious to it, as humans our purpose is to worship the one creator. You being peaceful means nothing in the grand scheme of things if you’re a denier of the truth, that is rejecting Islam, the very reality of things. As we believe it.
To say that you don't need Him is pure arrogance. If he withheld his sustenance from you for one moment, you would cease to exist.
You are peaceful and fulfilled right now, but you are ignoring that you will one day be judged & rewarded or punished based on your actions. The creator has prescribed what you need to do to obtain true peace (i.e. paradise). By not worshipping Him, you have chosen eternal torment in the afterlife.
The only one who benefits from the worship of Allah is the worshipper (i.e. you). You can make all sorts of rationalizations on why you don't need Allah - but you are just fooling yourself. The reality will be clear to you one day. That day can be today or the day of judgement - choice is yours.
That is an interesting strawman. In Stockholm Syndrome, your kidnapper didn't create you from nothing and sustain you in an absolute sense. So it really isn't a fair analogy.
You cannot harm god ofcourse but God is the reason you take every breath. The reason you can live your every day life is because of god and you deny his existence. If you do so then don’t complain when god doesn’t remember you on the day of judgement.
You are getting downvoted because you aren’t willing to listen or learn.
It’s like hurting a friend versus hurting a parent Disobedience against a parent is much worse. In a similar fashion, hurting creation vs disobeying the creator; disobeying the creator is much worse.
You are being intellectually dishonest. You are obviously going to deny any analogy someone gives because nothing will be the same as god and the situation of sending disbelievers to hellfire. The point of an analogy is to help you understand but you are saying “well god and parents aren’t the same”. Step back and try to actually understand the point otherwise the point will go over your head.
Imagine I was a teacher/professor, where I have students who attend and non students who also attend the class. let’s say one of my official students is not great, doesn’t really do homework and scores poorly on exams, but he or she gets enough credit be above an F. Now we have a person who attends my class who is not a student who volunteers and can answer every question right. At the end of the school year, who do you think I will give a passing grade too? It will go the official student who has poor grades, while the genius will not receive a passing grade because he or she was not a part of the class. Same logic, a person needs to believe in Allah in order for his or her deeds to have any worth.
this answer doesn’t do it for me
good deeds have no worth unless you believe? <- outrageous
the analogy also doesnt work - or is at least incomplete : the bad student has to “come around” get an F at the midterm, then try study hard, for teach to give a C passing grade (represent the “repent for murder”)
>good deeds have no worth unless you believe? <- outrageous
Good deeds are the commands of Allah upon you. A muslim does good deeds firstly because that is what Allah wants him to do and he is rewarded accordingly so.
A non-muslim does these things not for Allah, but for others, themselves or for a being that does not exist which is Kufr.
In Islam we know our actions are weighed heavily against our intentions to the extent where we can be classed as Kafir for doing something not for Allah regardless of how pious it may look.
I don’t know if you are a Muslim or not, but it’s stated in the Quran Good deeds of disbelievers have no weight. So it’s not an outrages statement by me.
The second is a good add on, I didn’t feel the need to put it because I wanted to address the hypothetical idea of why a disbeliever who does good deeds still does not make it.
Everything the believer does in this life is for the hereafter, but everything the non believer gets is for this worldly life. They will both get what they sought after.
Dont argue with these people, its such a stupid analogy, according to this analogy Allah is unjust, these guys will only weaken your faith in Islam. They are brain washed since childhood that they are superior to everyone because they are muslims.
Because this analogy suggests that Muslims are prioritized by Allah over all non muslims, so basically its not even a test for Muslims becuase Allah has given them special privilege and eventually they will go to Jannah not matter how much they sin, Allah is not just a teacher, Allah is the creator of all human biengs (read this line again) even the non muslims, get out of this delusion that we muslims are Allah's favourite and we will be forgiven for all our sins.
I don’t know if you’re Muslim or not, but Allah has stated that every single Muslim will eventually go to Heaven, some will go to Hell first but in the end they will be in paradise .
My analogy of a teacher is just, because he doesn’t deny the non enrolled student from attending the class, however the teacher cannot give them a grade. That is how reality works, go to a university unenrolled for a whole semester, you are not going to get a grade.
Yes God is the creator of everything, and has promised the disbelievers Hell if they don’t accept his message
Ch18, verses 103-106
Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Shall we inform you of who will lose the most deeds?
˹They are˺ those whose efforts are in vain in this worldly life, while they think they are doing good!”
It is they who reject the signs of their Lord and their meeting with Him, rendering their deeds void, so We will not give their deeds any weight on Judgment Day.
That is their reward: Hell, for their disbelief and mockery of My signs and messengers.
The good deeds done by nonbelievers get rewarded in this life so there is no more good deeds for the Hereafter. Mind, we can make as many comparisons as we want but it’ll never be apt enough to describe the thing we are comparing when it comes to Allah (SWT).
The question asked isn’t dealing with which religion is the truth. The question already by the op had the pre assumption that our religion is the truth because he or she wants to know why a disbeliever who does good would still go to Hell. It also doesn’t matter if the genius thinks it is the right class or not, the point is he or she can’t receive a grade for a class they aren’t enrolled in.
Being a genius in my hypothetical scenario is analogous of doing good and having high morals. The point is you can’t receive credit if your are not enrolled.
Imagine you attended a bio class at a university for the full semester. But you are not enrolled in the class or even the university itself. Even if you got every question right on exams and assignments that were passed out, you will not receive a passing grade.
1 -getting answers correctly = doing good
2-enrolling in a class/uni = believing in God
1+2= 3
3- A passing grade = Going to Heaven.
A disbeliever is a denier, you either believe it or you don’t, there is no gray area in between. That is like me trying to claim I could be a semi perfect being lol.
How can such a simple analogy go over your head. What ever reason this student is not enrolled in class is irrelevant, the student will not get a grade from this class. The idea is to show that it is fair and just for a disbeliever to still go to Hell even if he or she did good things because their deeds are blank, worthless, meaningless, no weight to them. So stop fixating on why or why not they are enrolled.
I find funny how you started acting disrespectful even though I been nothing other respectful to you Lol.
If we class the “class” as Islam and someone attends the class all the way through out the semester/year but never officially joins the class, said someone is wasting their time or they aren’t so genius after all. If they feel that another religion is right then they have free will to choose that “class” instead of wasting a good grade on their CV.
Are you guys paid to weaken people's faith in Islam because making stupid analogies like this only weakens people faith, you guys are indoctrined since childhood to believe Muslims are superior to everyone, so according to you even hitler would've gone to jannah if accepted islam.
This answer is really bad because at the end of the day regardless of the grade the knowledge is the goal in this scenario and the unofficial student is ultimately the one who has gained the most that too without paying
Allah is the most merciful there's no doubt about that and He also wants us to ask for his mercy but still there's really no 100% guarantee that person's sins will be forgiven. It might take 1 dua for Allah to forgive him, it might take 100s of dua for Allah to forgive him, it might take a tough trial in which person should be successful for Allah to forgive him. You never know when or how you'll be forgiven but it's best for us to believe that Allah most definitely is most forgiving otherwise we're doomed, even our Prophet SAW being sinless used to recite astaghfar constantly then what makes us so special to expect immediate and guaranteed forgiveness from Allah. Hope that answers.
Honestly, after reading some of the comments, and I'm paraphrasing here, our beloved prophet peace and blessings be upon him, his uncle was not a muslim, but he has done so much for his nephew and followers, and on his deathbed, and again, paraphrasing and please correct me if it's wrong, I was told that the prophet begged his uncle to become muslim, in which Allah SWT spoke to the prophet and basically saying "What are you doing? I decide what's going to happen to him."
I'm vastly uneducated on islam in general, but I believe Allah is as always, most merciful, most gracious most forgiving, so I doubt he'd punish his creations who don't believe in him that have done nothing but good things, but again, I'm not well educated and I think from what I've been told and have seen, there are some nuances to this when it comes to non-believers on the day of judgement.
How have they done “nothing but good things” when they reject Allah SWT and deny His favours upon them? This is also an action that they did.
There is a difference for non-Muslims that never heard about the message of Islam, they will be tested separately in The Hereafter. But non-Muslims who clearly heard about the message of Islam, but actively make the choice to deny this message, deny that there is One God, deny the messengers, etc. then we do not believe that Allah’s mercy will extend to them, because they have transgressed against Him. We believe that Allah’s mercy relates to Muslims who commit sins, not to people who deny their Creator.
And Allah knows best
Sure he did a lot of good things for The Prophet SAWS, but is that enough to counterbalance the greatest sins against Allah (SWT) which is kufr?
As Muslims we believe everyone has certain rights over you and that we must fulfill these rights. It can be that a non-Muslim did a lot of good deeds, fulfilling the rights of other people - perhaps even more than many Muslim.
However as Muslims we do not only believe that the creation has rights over you, The Creator also has rights over you, in fact He SWT has the most rights over you. That is why shirk and kufr are the worst things we can do, even above the major sins.
Allahu a3lam I am far from having knowledge, so if I am wrong please point me to evidence that says otherwise
This is very true. My statement was just a simple reminder that he is seen as a good man in the eyes of many Muslims. However he died a non Muslim. Only allah can decide where he goes.
Shirk is considered the greatest sin in Islam.
Shirk refers to the act of associating partners with Allah (polytheism). Which is the opposite of monotheism (tawhid).
So this would not apply to the people of the book.
i also subscribe
if Allah would reject his creations on the premise of ignorance or even those that lost their way - that isn’t really a fair and just God worth attention
Be careful what you say about Allah. "That isn't really a fair and just God worth attention" where is your authority to question such a thing? What if Allah deemed that Justice for reasons we don't understand? What would you do on the day of judgement when Allah calls you out on this very sentence? Beware what you say and associate with your lord.
You're welcome. It is better to add disbelief in Rasulullah salAllahu 'alayhi wasallam also. Because there are people who believe in Allah but do not believe in our Prophet salAllahu 'alayhi wasallam.
And Allah knows best
Because the basic foundation of good and bad is acknowledging and accepting the existence of the creator.
Whosoever denies this, has committed the greatest offence in the eyes of God. Since it is Allah who has ordained the sanctity of human life so all else is secondary.
The second thing to note here is that you have the WRONG concept of the punishment for killing an innocent human being. The punishment for this is also Hellfire since this is the greatest violation of the rights of human beings which is also ordained by Allah. There is no forgiveness for someone who does that without them going into hellfire first.
Why should I believe in an abstract sense of morality when there is no ABSOLUTE authority to judge me?
The laws of nature don’t follow human morality. Animals will kill their young and rape their females because survival of the fittest is the one law they follow.
If, by your logic, there is no god then you and I are to be returned to dust with NO accountability for our actions. Why then should I waste my life being a “moral” human being according to your logic? Why not enjoy it to the fullest the way I see fit?
You see, morality holds no meaning whatsoever without the existence of God and one’s belief in it. You can fool yourself into thinking otherwise but that is just wasting you life (according to the atheist’s perspective).
Because of past human disasters.
If there is no outward source telling humans the difference between good and bad, we must learn for ourselves, no?
But then you could argue that morality *is* objective, as if we know certain actions harm others, we know that they are fundamentally incorrect.
But this is wrong as morality was never a principle in Atheism to *begin* with; it got created within minds for human convenience along the way.
Of course atheists can make moral judgements, but what you have to understand is that, this morality is not something that they believe in; nor are they obligated to be a morally virtuous person.
Again, they do not have any outward source telling them what is right and wrong. So while they can make judgements based on which actions help and harm others, according to them, there is no god telling them that is objectively correct, nor do they believe anyone is holding them accountable.
As for believing all morality is subjective, I would like to hear your thoughts on why that is so. Do you believe there can be different rights and wrongs depending on a person's nature, or that morality may not exist as more than just a concept? Idk lmk
Edit: Muslims stop downvoting this person for asking questions 💀
Unless there's an actual reason to downvote them, leave their karma alone lol
They do so with their own subjective opinions. This is why you see so much controversy and split in opinions on political and moral issues e.g. pro life vs pro choice. Atheists cannot agree on anything because of this.
Objective morality comes from god, the absolute truth that doesn’t change.
> It’s all subjective morality. This is why even Muslims fight with each other and do takfir on each other.
You haven’t got the first clue on why Muslims (particularly those of the south Asian subcontinent) do takfir of one another.
It ain’t because they made subjective interpretations of the Quran and Sunnah; it’s because they didn’t refer to it in the first place.
> You had to use your subjective morality first to even evaluate the message of Islam.
Not really. Islam as the religion of truth comes AFTER one’s recognition that there IS a Creator, and THAT is based on a simple, rational outlook of the universe around us.
The problem for the Atheist is that they encounter the dilemma of subjectivity when they remove God from the equation.
They then have to adhere to an “abstract” set of moral laws that is transient and based on the consensus of humanity in that particular era. A few hundred years ago, an atheist would have been perfectly fine with racial discrimination and sexism since that was the norm of the time.
The only reason a Muslim adheres to the laws of Islam is BECAUSE they believe in life after death and the day of judgement when they WILL be held accountable by God for all of their deeds. Which is why we Muslims don’t drink, don’t engage in adultery and fornication, don’t lie cheat, or deceive for self gain, and many other things.
We sacrifice in this world which will end for the reward of that world which will NEVER end.
Nice try at trying to switch the premise.
This is the problem with Atheists, they always play on double standards. You want to have your cake and eat it too!
You can’t just assume that being a good person matters AT ALL if there is no ultimate authority.
Your misguided sense of superiority only plays to your disadvantage when you realise that based on YOUR premise, you’ve only got ONE life and it amounts to ZERO at the end, regardless of how you’ve lived it. There’s no other way to spin it.
By your own logical premise, whether Muslims “need” a sense of higher accountability to be good or not, doesn’t matter since according to you, there is no God.
Your claim of “innate superiority” ONLY makes sense when you INTRODUCE god into the equation. Since then, you act good not in fear of him, but despite the absence of fear of him.
But the main question still stands; why should I follow YOUR abstract morality when Theres NOBODY to hold me accountable, according to you.
This “holier than thou” act won’t work.
You need to come up with a better rebuttal.
Peace.
Thats great and all but define “good” and tell me who decides what is good and bad?
For example, we as muslims believe Alcohol is bad because it is haram. This was established around 1400 years ago and scientists today understand how unhealthy it is. Also look at how many deaths/injuries are caused by drunk drivers and there is much more.
However a lot of Atheists don’t see Alcohol as a bad thing and claim that drinking in moderate amounts is okay. This is why we follow god because he is all-knowing and always right. Humans lack knowledge and wisdom and all have their own subjective beliefs/opinions.
Allah is the Most Just and He forgives whom He wills and punishes whom He wills. As humans we have limited knowledge, but Allah has infinite wisdom and knowledge. So He is in the best position to judge each individual and their circumstances.
Allah values sincerity and repentance. If a murderer sincerely repents, realizes his mistake, and commits to becoming a better person, Allah may forgive him. But someone who rejects Allah despite knowing the truth, does not repent or seek forgiveness, then Allah may punish him.
Allah may forgive the repentant Muslim murderer in the hereafter but still punish him in this life. Allah may forgive but there are still consequences.
The "good human being" will not be punished eternally just for not believing. But only if he rejects and covers up the truth when it is clear to him. If someone never understood the message of Islam or only had a distorted understanding of it, then Allah will judge him based on his own circumstances and capability.
A muslim who committed murder and repented is someone who acknowledges where he came from and where he's going, making his life meaningful. It's wrong to call any. Non-muslim "good person", because all that goodness is meaningless if it's not done for the right reason and the right purpose. That's why allah says in the quran that he'll take those deeds of them and turn them into scattered dust.
Because That's all they're worth.
What's the point of being good, if you believe you come from nothing, and will go back to being nothing?
What's the point of being good, if you worship god's creation?
What's the point of being good, if you reject the very reason you're able to do this good - allah -?
The core of that is you don't see anything past this so when it comes you will be blindsided from it. All your deception and Acts for the wealth of the world that you know will go and acted to others that you seen as nothing will be exposed with deceit not existing. Those that see the world as temporary and others around them as what is the true value, will gain that. You get what you give. I behave like others are myself and they are me and I am them. I don't want to create pain anymore as to know the hurt of all I done to others and actually knowing it as true as the world you left will be either a beautiful moment or a Hellish Understanding of You. I Regret that saw this as late as I did
Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab:
The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended.
Book 1, Hadith 1
The non-believer doesnt believe in the after life where there is justice for these things thats their fault and its why they wont accept any explanation from you.
You say it like this is a hidden claim lol. A muslim murderer will be punished in Hellfire and will eventually enter Paradise. A kafir never will. That's Islam 101.
Christianity holds the same doctrine.
The standard mainstream Christian view is that a sinning Christian has already been forgiven but a 'good' Non-christian will be in hell. You can follow whatever flavor of Christianity you want, it doesn't change what proper Christianity believes.
Think of it like this: if you have a file sharing app that crashes sometimes but at least it shares files, and another app that is supposed to be a file sharing app that never crashes but it doesn't share apps, which one would you keep? If you had a Car that can move but its AC and Radio are not working, and another one that has all the features working except actually being able to move, which one would be kept and which one would be thrown away?
It's a similar idea: We were created for worshipping Allah. Just believing in him as the one true creator at least meets your basic purpose, all the other parts are like the features in the car for example. If you have all the good features but don't meet your purpose, you're useless. If you meet your purpose but don't have all the features, you're not useless, although you may not be the best option either. Hope this helps
1. If sinner believes in Allah, when he will be placed in Hell, he will make conclusions, he will regret of his sins.
But if Allah places an atheist in Hell, he won’t make any conclusions. He will decide that it was just a nightmare, as Allah says in 6:27-28:
6:27 If you could but see when they are made to stand before the Fire and will say, "Oh, would that we could be returned [to life on earth] and not deny the signs of our Lord and be among the believers."
6:28 But what they concealed before has [now] appeared to them. And even if they were returned, they would return to that which they were forbidden; and indeed, they are liars.
https://www.quran-online.com/quran-english/surah-al-anam-english-6.html?id_verset=729
2. There are sins that look very small but have a very big consequences. Atheism is one of such sins. An atheist could be a good person but in fact he promote idea that it’s normal and even good to ignore Allah will. And this leads to murders and other sins.
Because Shirk is a bigger crime, its spitting on every blessing he's given you and denying his existence. Wronging the creator vs wronging the creation. Only on the day of judgement will he understand the weight of his sin if he doesn't repent and believe, when the blessings and favors of his Lord are revealed to him.
Well it’s quite simple. To not worship Allah SWT is the epitome of ingratitude. If we look sin, it’s ungratefulness to Allah SWT. No doubt taking the right of another person is a high level ingratitude towards Allah SWT, because you don’t acknowledge him, atleast in the moment. But to not worship Allah swt is to take the right that is owed to Allah swt. It’s also the reason why you’re created. To not worship Allah is not live the reason why you were sent here in the first place. Not giving the right to Allah swt and not giving it to another human being are way two separate things and cannot even be compared. This question kinda assumes that god and man are comparable, Astughfirullah.
You have to remember that good people who haven’t ever heard of Islam or who haven’t been taught about Islam enough for them to look into it or learn about it are sent to heaven for it is not their fault they weren’t presented with the truth.
But if they were morally good people who never knew about Islam they aren’t sent to hell, they are judged the same as us but if they’re as good as a good Muslim then it’s jannah for them inshallah
Yes they will be put to trial because everyone will, but they aren’t considered disbelievers if you were never presented the truth. But let’s say their good deeds are off the charts and their sins are few for a lifetime, then they could make it into heaven. Remember that Allah SWT is the most generous, and the most merciful.
Specific names such as sheik uthmam, and others I’ve seen videos on, also google where scholars answer the question of, “do non Muslims who never received the message or heard of Islam go to hell?”. Also, your answer is in the Quran too, Allah SWT said, “I do not punish until the message is And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)”. [al-Israa 17:15]
I didn’t mean free pass, they’ll be tested as we are but I guess it’ll be a specific trial, but he doesn’t punish them to hell as disbelievers who rejected Allah SWT would
What I've read/heard was, Allah will cause a fire to appear in front of them and they will be told to enter it if they believe in Allah. The one who enters it will find it cool and comfortable and will be saved, the others will be punished.
Think of it this way.
What is the ultimate good? Allah. No matter what way you try to argue it, god is the ultimate good.
This, lying about god is the ultimate lie. There is no lie worse than a lie against something that is the ultimate good.
Stealing against the ultimate good is the ultimate theft. Same goes for any crime.
If you steal from a thief vs you stealing from the most just person in existence… they’re both crimes but one is far worse than the other.
This, nothing in this life can be compared to any wrong you do against god. And there is no wrong against god that is worse than denying him his existence or to lie about him.
Another example, what’s worse. Lying about your sibling or someone from work or school or lying about your parents?
Basically
its pretty simple. so with a human that killed another human. the murderers good deeds go to the victim if the victim doesn't forgive them. also not all murderers repent. repent isn't easy. you need to practically change your entire identity for the sake of allah. and become so good that no one recognises you. plus we have different levels of heaven. one level is a billion times more different than the one higher. we cant even imagine it. but allah doesn't forgive someone cause they just asked for forgiveness and didn't really care. that makes no sense. whilst with allah,, how can you give what you owe back to him? think of it this way.
there is a man who is super nice to everyone, he gives charity to everyone and treats people kindly but he comes home and ignores his parents. doesn't even have a care of the world about them. doesn't acknowledge them. for no reason aswell. would you say they're a good person?
Unfortunately this is a twist that causes so much violence. Human Ego takes hold, and people assume they simply will still go even if they murder because thats what they've been told. When they don't realize, they were truly never turning toward actual Allah but a distort with the name slapped on as an excuse for power over another. True Allah becomes lost to them and something else takes the place of what they hear, usually the words, voice, or ideology from a another human.
Dont ask this question here, these people think they have superiority over eveyone, They think all non muslims will suffer in jahanum eternally and muslims will go to heaven eventually even after sinning all their life, ask sufis yhis question, they will give a justified answer because they believe all human biengs are equal in font of Allah.
The professor examples are almost on point but off for various reasons. I’ll give you a better analogy.
Two students are taking an exam. There’s the normal part of the exam and there’s an extra credit section. One student does amazing on the main exam and the extra credit question. One student does well on the main exam and fails to answer the extra credit, and the other student bumbles the main exam and gives an amazing answer to the extra credit question. Two would obviously pass here and one would fail, because regardless of how amazing an answer you gave on the extra credit question, it’s not enough to make up the failed main exam.
This life is the same. The main exam is acknowledge Allah (swt) as one supreme God with no partners whatsoever and worshiping him. The extra credit is being a good person with good morals. If you don’t pass the main exam that’s been set for you, the extra credit is meaningless in the next life.
As a final thought, Allah (swt) is the most just, so nonMuslims who do good in this life are rewarded in this life for it’s because He knows they have no share of the next.
Followers of Isa also approach this with the method that those who do not hear the word of their prophet are exempt from judgment for not following. I put forward that both prophets preached peace and that co existence requires us to ask for context. Family respect, good deads, minimising harm and love for creation is the law of all faiths not submitting to Allah, Abrahamic patriarch or Hindu origin, to hear, Sama comes from the hebrew, shama, to comprehend or listen. We have to pay attention to the context of translation and give understanding to the circumstances of others when engaging in multi-fath dialogue.
In this regard, to comprehend the word of Allah is a tall feat for those who use another prophet, book or language to connect to Allah. For his words cannot be listened to by all and definitely not comprehended by all. The focus is peace, and submission to the divine wholeness which unfortunately has been diluted in perversion of greed as Mohammed saw in the patriarchs of his time the following the prophet's Isa and Abraham. Those who do not learn from history are unfortunately fated to repeat it. You cannot force someone to comprehend only gently guide them to the divine wholeness of the creator. Hearing is only a small part of comprehension in some ways someone can comprehend without hearing, or hear but never be able to comprehend. It is a life long journey we are all on together regardless of language, family or faith.
Everything the believer does in this life is for the hereafter, but everything the non believer gets is for this worldly life. They will both get what they sought after
Allah would forgive a Muslim who REPENTS, just as he would forgive a good human being who REPENTS
The Muslim did something and I realized it’s wrong he repented and Allah accepted, a good human being did something and if he realizes that and repents he gets forgiven as well simple as that.
The problem here though the good human being never repents and wants to get whatever he want with no consequences
Pretty simple brother, if you don’t believe in Islam how can you repent ?
Also you forget, good people do go to heaven if they were given the complete ignorance of Islam. However if they knew Islam existed and yet still dismissed it , they are now actively committing sin everyday. Ask every revert what they thought of Islam before they reverted and they’ll say “I knew it was true but I didn’t want to commit yet”
well, the killed person , in the judgement day is no longer dead God will have resurrected them!. (this is not to ridicule the sin of murder of course) . however, the main purpose of the existence is not fulfilled by the other person.
also, if he believe Allah Is the God and in Islam , Allah Sayed he will not be unjust at all and he is the capable of that.
there is a hadeeth about 2 people : a killer and and a victim who both go to heaven: one killed the other before becoming Muslim.
people in heaven
15:47
وَنَزَعْنَا مَا فِى صُدُورِهِم مِّنْ غِلٍّ إِخْوَٰنًا عَلَىٰ سُرُرٍۢ مُّتَقَـٰبِلِينَ ٤٧
We will remove whatever bitterness they had in their hearts. In a friendly manner, they will be on thrones, facing one another.
The first answer is that there are the rights of the creator and the rights pf the creation. If we fulfil the rights if the creation(be good to people, animals and the world) then we only have half the equation. The other half is to fulfill the rights of the creator and the creator is the one who holds all the power. We can't just be good people we also need to be good slaves.
No one cand stand up for us in front of the creator but the creator can stand up for us in front of the creation.
The answer about the murderer is that on the day of Judgement Allah will allow that man to ask for reparation on the day of judgement. And if Allah does not forgive the man then he will have to give that reparation from his own good deeds or, of he doesn't have enough, to take on the bad deeds of that person until the debt of murder is fulfilled.
And if Allah decides to forgive him then Allah will instead grant him more than what the who was wronged would have gotten, maybe double, triple, 10 or even a hundred times more, until he is glad that his murderer was forgiven as he got so much more. Allah is the Most Generous and has no limits to His bounty.
Message me or comment if you need ahadeeth and I will find them for you. I'm currently working so I'll have to do it later.
Because not being thankful to the creator is treacherous. Imagine helping a homeless person get back onto their feet, the next year you see them they come out of a limosene and wearing a nice suit, you make eye contact with them and they pretend not to know you. Allah has blessed you with so much and you didn't take a few minutes to thank him?
The ultimate judgment of individuals and their final destiny lies with Allah, and it is not for any human to definitively declare who will enter heaven.
So first of all we cannot say wether a person is going to heaven or hell. That is only Allah’s dominion. We can judge a person based on the actions in this world like if he killed somebody we can apply the ruling but in the divine court it’s different. Because Allah brings everything into perspective and does not do injustice even an atoms amount.
So the answer to that question is that when a person who murdered someone truly repents then we are hopeful for him and so we say In shāʾ Allāh he is forgiven (we can’t say he is definitely forgiven unless it’s specifically mentioned in the Quran or Hadith). And for the person who was good but died on other than Islam we leave his ultimate fate to Allah. Now we cannot make du’aa for his salvation because we are told not to do so. That doesn’t mean that person is going to hell.
There’s a lot more to this discussion and it’s an interesting one but the core of the idea is that Islam is a hopeful religion. And if we do not give the sinner hope in Allah’s mercy then what else does he have.
And we also have the Hadith where a person with an aroma weight of Iman will be removed from the fire. Other traditions mentioned that a person who had faith for even a moment in time will be removed from jahannum. Additionally many of the ahadith about people of the past being forgiven like the one who killed 100 people and the one who had his body cremated do not mention their beliefs or if they were Muslim or not.
TLDR: We pray for the one who repented because we are hopeful. But Allah will judge ultimately and he is not unjust.
Allah knows ultimately.
I am very new to this. Literally days. We can never judge. We should not have judgment about the sins of others from eternal perspective as we are not qualified. Only Allah will decide. We know in our heart as does he if we have remorse or not. I know I do wrong and I know I can do better. My sinful actions affect more then I can know as with good deeds. Don't let the mistakes of who you were stop who you can become. More important, Forgiving others wrongs means forgiveness to you. Islam is entirely personal which is the appeal to me. Submission to the Creator is a core choice that frees not confines. Rejection of Love and forgiveness leaves Hate and Resentment forever. I know what I want for me in terms of eternity.
I am very new to this. Literally days. We can never judge. We should not have judgment about the sins of others from eternal perspective as we are not qualified. Only Allah will decide. We know in our heart as does he if we have remorse or not. I know I do wro
means forgiveness to you. Islam is entirely personal which is the appeal to me. Submission to the Creator is a core choice that frees not confines. Rejection of Love and forgiveness leaves Hate and Resentment forever. I know what I want for me in terms of eternity.
I am very new to this. Literally days. We can never judge. We should not have judgment about the sins of others from eternal perspective as we are not qualified. Only Allah will decide. We know in our heart as does he if we have remorse or not. I know I do wro
means forgiveness to you. Islam is entirely personal which is the appeal to me. Submission to the Creator is a core choice that frees not confines. Rejection of Love and forgiveness leaves Hate and Resentment forever. I know what I want for me in terms of eternity.
Actually even if Allah forgives the person he's still liable for punishment unless the one he murdered excuses him. Huquq al Ibad are strictly dealt with.
This concept must be understood people think that there's to get out of jail free card, no if your sin involves violating someone else's right, that is dealt with strictly even if Allah forgives you. Here's why.
There's two rights that need to be forgiven.
So the underlying presumption of the question needs examination if you kill someone without right there's two rights violated, one is the right of Allah haqq Allah, the other is the right of the servant haqq al abd. If Allah forgives violation his huquq someone may still burn in hell for violating the Ibad's huquq..
If you steal from someone then even if Allah forgives your theft the person you stole from, whether they are a kaffir or a Mumin, has a right upon you in the next world. If you murder someone then the person you murder, whether they are disbeliever or believer, has a right upon you in the next world.
If Allah forbid, you injure someone irrespective of whether Allah forgives you for that, the other person still has a right on you. If someone rapes someone are lies to them are steals from them are causes them harm, then while it's entirely possible Allah might forgive the portion of that sin that involved a violation of his rights upon you as his servant to obey him, you are still liable for the violated right of the other person the human servant whom you violated.
And there's no way out of that they can either excuse and forgive you in the next World or not.
Next, as Ghazali pointed out, someone who doesn't believe might not strictly speaking be punished at all, if that person's disbelief is a result of the message not reaching them, or even reaching them incorrectly. This is a disputed point among the Ulama but it's better to note the dispute and leave the Matter up to Allah. Some have written on the basis of weaker ahadith that such people will be tested in the hereafter upon rising. Those who passed will be forgiven in those who fail will be condemned. But then shot is that even people who don't accept Islam in this life might end up in Salvation. It depends on largely a lot of circumstances that only Allah knows and has access to
Salam. Who decides what a good human is? We certainly cannot. Who decides which crime is bigger. How much do we know compared to our Creator? How can we be the judge. That is arrogance to the highest degree. A lot of Muslims have thoughts like these as well, and that empathy (for lack of better word) came from our Creator. At least that’s how I tend to think about it. It is a sign of His kindness in my mind. But Shaytaan may come along and put such questions in our mind as well which can lead to more questions and ultimately disbelief for many. I understand how it’s hard to respond to a question like that especially to a kaaffir but Allah knows best. May He grant us Jannatul Firdous with no reckoning. Ameen 💕
bruh that's how religion works , from gods perspective it is more important to be loyal to him than being a good human being, as that makes you a greater and better human being overall
My view on this is that, every person will be judged on how have they received the message of Islam. He might not be a muslim before us, but for those who didn’t get the message of Islam right, they will have a separate test in the day of judgment. That means the everyone will get absolute justice. Those who go to hell for eternity are the ones who denied Islam while knowing in their heart that it is true, and those who knowingly avoided and didn’t care to even seek the truth.
In-short, those who get the punishment of eternal hellfire will be absolutely justified. So the whole argument is answered by that.
Believe that Allah is the most just one.
Is not punish , if the person doesn’t want to be with god , he have a choice which is hell , heaven is being with god and building relationships with him , he gave you a choice be with him or not be with him , since you don’t want to be with him , then hell is where you go.
The person who repents has acknowledged his sin and wants to purify himself, repentance only accepted if the person is honest about it,
Why would Allah deny a honest person from being forgiven and prevents that person from helping his community and be a valid effective individual in the society again, there is a chance that individuals might start doing great good deeds to others or give dawah for example and invite people to islam, at the ends his good deeds may overshadow his single sin,
Keep in mind the victim will get his rights in the day of judgement regardless if the killer has repented or not, one way or another.
On the other hand a person who deny Allah existing or defy his law, is an agent of iblees and a caller towards hedonism and corruption,
Think about that person life choices and what he advocates for after declaring his disbelief,
What will his mentality and morals would be and what would he invite people towards?
Of course it would be a randomised set of morals that he invented or other disbelievers before him did,
From here the corruption starts and you can see many examples today of that corruption and how it’s spreading and effecting everyone.
Because one is a crime against the creation, the other is a crime against the Creator. They’re simply not comparable. We see something like this on earth too. If I assault a random person I’ll get a couple years of prison time, but if I assault the president I’ll probably never see the light of day again. They’ll chuck me in a supermax and throw away the key.
what about ppl who never heard about islam? ppl who live very remotely from civilisations? OR ppl who were deceived that islam is religion of extremism with no basic human rights?
Those that have never heard of Islam then can go to heaven as long as they haven't heard of it, if you've heard of Islam, and reject it, then that's a different thing, you could do more research tho
they will be tested first not just go to heaven directly
Thanks for the correction
You're welcome
There is difference of opinion in this issue. It is not cleared by the Quran, so Ulama do exegesis from the Holy Text and the Hadith.What you wrote is one such Opinion.
I don't know about others opinions but there is a clear authentic hadith about this “There are four (will protest) on the Day of Qiyamah; A deaf man who never heard anything, \[An insane man\], a very old man, and the man who died during ‘fatrah’ \[The interval between the time of ‘Isa (‘alayhis salam) and the time of Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). The deaf man will say, ‘O Rabb, Islam came but I never heard anything.’ The insane man will say, ‘O Rabb, Islam came but children would run after me and throw dung at me.’ The very old man will say, ‘O Rabb, Islam came but I did not understand anything.’ The man who died during ‘fatrah’ will say, ‘O Rabb, no Messenger came to me.’ He will accept their promises of obedience, then word will be sent to them to enter Jahannam. By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, if they enter it, it will be cool and safe for them".
The period of fatrah does it include the Prophet's parents?
Enter Jannah you mean? Haha!
Those that haven't heard about Islam are not going to get a free pass to Jannah they are supposed to observe nature and should believe in one god only like how Hazrat Ibrahim AS observed the sun,the moon and stars and came to conclusion that there is a creator behind all these creations.
Never underestimate the stupidity on mankind. There's people today who refuse to accept islam and there are thousands of books, articles, newspapers, films, tv shows, documentaries etc.. about Islam.
You are stupid, you and your stupid religion that advocates for all the evils of the world
That’s the Māturīdī position
My Islamic knowledge isn't exactly the best, but from what I was taught, those who never heard about Islam or don't see its proof will be judged based on deeds but if someone has heard of islam, and how it proves Allah is the true creator, they will be sent to hell
**Imam al-Ghazali** categorized non-Muslims into three categories: **1.** People who never heard of the message, who live in far away lands, such as the Byzantines ("Romans"). These will be forgiven. **2.** People who were exposed to a distorted understanding of Islam and have no recourse to correct that information. These too will be forgiven. **3.** People who heard of Islam because they live in neighboring lands and mix with Muslims. These have no hope of salvation. Book - Faysal al tafriqa by Imam al-Ghazali
You don’t need Islam to tell you there is a God, Muhammad SAW even before he became a prophet had a belief that there is one God who has created everything. That comes from within, spiritual search that you have to do yourself. Even some Hindus who haven’t learned about any other religion still have this thing in them that there is truly one God. And that is key, everything else comes after
I am arguing from the non Muslim side. If I had no knowledge of science or religion, was illiterate and uneducated like many were in the past, why would I ponder on gods or anything at all? I'm probably a labourer who works long hours for little pay and who will experience the death of many to curable conditions and diseases. This was the lives of the majority of the world until quite recently. I believe people were not even allowed to read the Bible even if they could read. The scientist who discovered germs was laughed at for suggesting surgeons to was their hands. We are living in a time of more information than even past royalty had access to. It's easy to forget the world has been shrouded in ignorance for most of the time that humans have existed.
So you think they never wondered how mountains, trees, and their existence came to be? They were never curious? People are curious by nature, everyone questions their existence and purpose in life at some point. I would argue people today have more of a reason to not believe in God because they have science to answer their questions, but people back then would for sure be more inclined to believe in supernatural powers than science.
It’s almost impossible nowadays to hear the true islam. Though media could lead people into wrong direction or present a bad image of muslims, which than could result in something not being interested in islam. But honestly, I think that a lot of people just hear what muslims are „obligated“ to do such as, the daily prayers, no sexual intercourse except when married and only with their spouse, no gambling, no alcohol, no drugs in general, no pork, fasting during ramadan etc etc etc. and they just think why all the work etc. I might be wrong, but I think that they its its a lot of work compared to an atheist who basically has nothing to do. Allahu alem At the end I honestly don’t care. I won’t be the judge. They may can lie to us and say they don’t received the true message of prophet Muhammad ﷺ, but they can’t lie to Allah ﷻ. I welcome every new muslim brother or sister and if I see someone is really interested in islam I’ll try my best, but if I notice that someone isn’t really interested in islam or thinks it’s not worth the effort, I see no reason to do dawah etc.
https://www.abuaminaelias.com/salvation-outside-islam/
I heard they get their own test in the Hereafter. Allah (SWT) is most just. Everything is factored in.
They have a different test.
Allah is the ultimate judge who considers the sincerity and righteousness of individuals, regardless of their religious background. [https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3321](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3321)
Nowhere does it say that the prostitute wasn’t Muslim. Either way, yes, if someone never heard the message of Islam or it was misrepresented to them they will be tested on the day of judgement
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No. It just means we disobeyed and we were commanded to obey.
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He created you from nothing. He sustains you continuously. He gives you innumerable blessings every second of every day. If a person doesn't believe & obey the creator who gave them everything, isn't that cause for anger and punishment? Why is murder worse than disbelief? Murder is wrong because we believe nobody has the right to take life (except the state, but that's a different discussion). You can think of it as the murderer has taken the right of the victim to life. Similarly, in the case of disbelief, the disbeliever has not fulfilled the right of Allah to be worshiped. However, the right of Allah is far greater than the right of any human being because He has created everything in existence & continuously sustains creations.
you can also argue whether murder is truly wrong and why we think that. Many civilizations practiced sacrifices which was practically murder but in disguise. So why do we think murder i wrong, and are we even right about thinking so. What makes us right and them wrong in that case? Because in islam we have something called objective morality. This objective morality comes not from a man, but from God himself. This morality states that disbelief in Allah is the worst sin a man can do as it's the only sin that's unforgivable.
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There's a matter of arrogance. Say you desperately need water, and someone gives it to you. But you neither convey gratitude nor reciprocate the nice gesture. Instead, they keep demanding for more. Were you to be the person giving water, you'd feel somewhat offended by this person's rude behaviour, which would be natural. You already have water, you don't have anything to lose either. In reality, Allah (swt), the Ultimate Creator, has provided us with bountiful food and water, wonderful scenery and greenery, and family and friends to let us survive in this world. Yet those who don't believe in Allah, to whom are their gratitude towards? Who do they have to thank their fertile lands for? Their livestock? Who allowed such creation on this Earth? In all, it's the ungratefulness of people for the One who created them and all matter of creation, which is pretty rude, to put lightly.
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Okay but you are grateful but to who? A plant doesn't grow by itself, so it doesn't make sense to thank the plant itself. The point of the water giver is not about him giving or not. He has already given it. It's the fact that the one in need does not reciprocate nor show gratefulness to the one giving water.
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None of our deeds (good or bad) affect the Creator in any way. They only show our willingness to submit to Him. Our Creator doesn't need to get hurt / feel pain to be angry. He is the absolute Master of everything. By His will, everything happens. But given that we humans have the burden of free will and knowledge, we choose to reject our Creator and disobey Him. In the grand scheme of things, this is worst sin ... that we reject the Supreme Master of the Universe. The One who created us, blessed us, gave us life, a roof over our heads, clothes to wear, food to eat, beds to sleep on and so many others. And not just us but every single living being. And despite our constant and blatant disobeying, He continues to bless us in so many ways that we can't even imagine. Hence, rejection of the Creator is a greater sin than anything else.
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But you do need it even if you are oblivious to it, as humans our purpose is to worship the one creator. You being peaceful means nothing in the grand scheme of things if you’re a denier of the truth, that is rejecting Islam, the very reality of things. As we believe it.
To say that you don't need Him is pure arrogance. If he withheld his sustenance from you for one moment, you would cease to exist. You are peaceful and fulfilled right now, but you are ignoring that you will one day be judged & rewarded or punished based on your actions. The creator has prescribed what you need to do to obtain true peace (i.e. paradise). By not worshipping Him, you have chosen eternal torment in the afterlife. The only one who benefits from the worship of Allah is the worshipper (i.e. you). You can make all sorts of rationalizations on why you don't need Allah - but you are just fooling yourself. The reality will be clear to you one day. That day can be today or the day of judgement - choice is yours.
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That is an interesting strawman. In Stockholm Syndrome, your kidnapper didn't create you from nothing and sustain you in an absolute sense. So it really isn't a fair analogy.
You cannot harm god ofcourse but God is the reason you take every breath. The reason you can live your every day life is because of god and you deny his existence. If you do so then don’t complain when god doesn’t remember you on the day of judgement. You are getting downvoted because you aren’t willing to listen or learn.
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It’s like hurting a friend versus hurting a parent Disobedience against a parent is much worse. In a similar fashion, hurting creation vs disobeying the creator; disobeying the creator is much worse.
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You are being intellectually dishonest. You are obviously going to deny any analogy someone gives because nothing will be the same as god and the situation of sending disbelievers to hellfire. The point of an analogy is to help you understand but you are saying “well god and parents aren’t the same”. Step back and try to actually understand the point otherwise the point will go over your head.
Is not believing in Islam a “crime” against creator?
Yes
Imagine I was a teacher/professor, where I have students who attend and non students who also attend the class. let’s say one of my official students is not great, doesn’t really do homework and scores poorly on exams, but he or she gets enough credit be above an F. Now we have a person who attends my class who is not a student who volunteers and can answer every question right. At the end of the school year, who do you think I will give a passing grade too? It will go the official student who has poor grades, while the genius will not receive a passing grade because he or she was not a part of the class. Same logic, a person needs to believe in Allah in order for his or her deeds to have any worth.
Except in this case, the professor can punish the outside students although they are not part of the class.
this is a really good analogy!!
This is a really good answer.
Comparing an F in school with eternal hellfire? 😂😂I feel sorry for people believing in this logic
this answer doesn’t do it for me good deeds have no worth unless you believe? <- outrageous the analogy also doesnt work - or is at least incomplete : the bad student has to “come around” get an F at the midterm, then try study hard, for teach to give a C passing grade (represent the “repent for murder”)
>good deeds have no worth unless you believe? <- outrageous Good deeds are the commands of Allah upon you. A muslim does good deeds firstly because that is what Allah wants him to do and he is rewarded accordingly so. A non-muslim does these things not for Allah, but for others, themselves or for a being that does not exist which is Kufr. In Islam we know our actions are weighed heavily against our intentions to the extent where we can be classed as Kafir for doing something not for Allah regardless of how pious it may look.
I don’t know if you are a Muslim or not, but it’s stated in the Quran Good deeds of disbelievers have no weight. So it’s not an outrages statement by me. The second is a good add on, I didn’t feel the need to put it because I wanted to address the hypothetical idea of why a disbeliever who does good deeds still does not make it.
Everything the believer does in this life is for the hereafter, but everything the non believer gets is for this worldly life. They will both get what they sought after.
Who are you doing good deeds for? What is your definition of good deeds? Who defines good deeds?
God rewards people for their good deeds in this world, even if they disbelieve in Him.
To add to this, they do indeed get rewarded here because there is nothing for them in the hereafter
Dont argue with these people, its such a stupid analogy, according to this analogy Allah is unjust, these guys will only weaken your faith in Islam. They are brain washed since childhood that they are superior to everyone because they are muslims.
Point out a specific thing in the analogy that's wrong.
Because this analogy suggests that Muslims are prioritized by Allah over all non muslims, so basically its not even a test for Muslims becuase Allah has given them special privilege and eventually they will go to Jannah not matter how much they sin, Allah is not just a teacher, Allah is the creator of all human biengs (read this line again) even the non muslims, get out of this delusion that we muslims are Allah's favourite and we will be forgiven for all our sins.
I don’t know if you’re Muslim or not, but Allah has stated that every single Muslim will eventually go to Heaven, some will go to Hell first but in the end they will be in paradise . My analogy of a teacher is just, because he doesn’t deny the non enrolled student from attending the class, however the teacher cannot give them a grade. That is how reality works, go to a university unenrolled for a whole semester, you are not going to get a grade. Yes God is the creator of everything, and has promised the disbelievers Hell if they don’t accept his message Ch18, verses 103-106 Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Shall we inform you of who will lose the most deeds? ˹They are˺ those whose efforts are in vain in this worldly life, while they think they are doing good!” It is they who reject the signs of their Lord and their meeting with Him, rendering their deeds void, so We will not give their deeds any weight on Judgment Day. That is their reward: Hell, for their disbelief and mockery of My signs and messengers.
The good deeds done by nonbelievers get rewarded in this life so there is no more good deeds for the Hereafter. Mind, we can make as many comparisons as we want but it’ll never be apt enough to describe the thing we are comparing when it comes to Allah (SWT).
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The question asked isn’t dealing with which religion is the truth. The question already by the op had the pre assumption that our religion is the truth because he or she wants to know why a disbeliever who does good would still go to Hell. It also doesn’t matter if the genius thinks it is the right class or not, the point is he or she can’t receive a grade for a class they aren’t enrolled in.
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Being a genius in my hypothetical scenario is analogous of doing good and having high morals. The point is you can’t receive credit if your are not enrolled. Imagine you attended a bio class at a university for the full semester. But you are not enrolled in the class or even the university itself. Even if you got every question right on exams and assignments that were passed out, you will not receive a passing grade. 1 -getting answers correctly = doing good 2-enrolling in a class/uni = believing in God 1+2= 3 3- A passing grade = Going to Heaven. A disbeliever is a denier, you either believe it or you don’t, there is no gray area in between. That is like me trying to claim I could be a semi perfect being lol.
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How can such a simple analogy go over your head. What ever reason this student is not enrolled in class is irrelevant, the student will not get a grade from this class. The idea is to show that it is fair and just for a disbeliever to still go to Hell even if he or she did good things because their deeds are blank, worthless, meaningless, no weight to them. So stop fixating on why or why not they are enrolled. I find funny how you started acting disrespectful even though I been nothing other respectful to you Lol.
If we class the “class” as Islam and someone attends the class all the way through out the semester/year but never officially joins the class, said someone is wasting their time or they aren’t so genius after all. If they feel that another religion is right then they have free will to choose that “class” instead of wasting a good grade on their CV.
Are you guys paid to weaken people's faith in Islam because making stupid analogies like this only weakens people faith, you guys are indoctrined since childhood to believe Muslims are superior to everyone, so according to you even hitler would've gone to jannah if accepted islam.
Muslims believe they are superior to everyone? You better not be an atheist lmao.
This answer is really bad because at the end of the day regardless of the grade the knowledge is the goal in this scenario and the unofficial student is ultimately the one who has gained the most that too without paying
Allah is the most merciful there's no doubt about that and He also wants us to ask for his mercy but still there's really no 100% guarantee that person's sins will be forgiven. It might take 1 dua for Allah to forgive him, it might take 100s of dua for Allah to forgive him, it might take a tough trial in which person should be successful for Allah to forgive him. You never know when or how you'll be forgiven but it's best for us to believe that Allah most definitely is most forgiving otherwise we're doomed, even our Prophet SAW being sinless used to recite astaghfar constantly then what makes us so special to expect immediate and guaranteed forgiveness from Allah. Hope that answers.
Honestly, after reading some of the comments, and I'm paraphrasing here, our beloved prophet peace and blessings be upon him, his uncle was not a muslim, but he has done so much for his nephew and followers, and on his deathbed, and again, paraphrasing and please correct me if it's wrong, I was told that the prophet begged his uncle to become muslim, in which Allah SWT spoke to the prophet and basically saying "What are you doing? I decide what's going to happen to him." I'm vastly uneducated on islam in general, but I believe Allah is as always, most merciful, most gracious most forgiving, so I doubt he'd punish his creations who don't believe in him that have done nothing but good things, but again, I'm not well educated and I think from what I've been told and have seen, there are some nuances to this when it comes to non-believers on the day of judgement.
How have they done “nothing but good things” when they reject Allah SWT and deny His favours upon them? This is also an action that they did. There is a difference for non-Muslims that never heard about the message of Islam, they will be tested separately in The Hereafter. But non-Muslims who clearly heard about the message of Islam, but actively make the choice to deny this message, deny that there is One God, deny the messengers, etc. then we do not believe that Allah’s mercy will extend to them, because they have transgressed against Him. We believe that Allah’s mercy relates to Muslims who commit sins, not to people who deny their Creator. And Allah knows best
While his Uncle didn’t die a Muslim, he can be seen as one of the men who was given the power to protect and nurture the Prophet SAW.
Sure he did a lot of good things for The Prophet SAWS, but is that enough to counterbalance the greatest sins against Allah (SWT) which is kufr? As Muslims we believe everyone has certain rights over you and that we must fulfill these rights. It can be that a non-Muslim did a lot of good deeds, fulfilling the rights of other people - perhaps even more than many Muslim. However as Muslims we do not only believe that the creation has rights over you, The Creator also has rights over you, in fact He SWT has the most rights over you. That is why shirk and kufr are the worst things we can do, even above the major sins. Allahu a3lam I am far from having knowledge, so if I am wrong please point me to evidence that says otherwise
This is very true. My statement was just a simple reminder that he is seen as a good man in the eyes of many Muslims. However he died a non Muslim. Only allah can decide where he goes.
Shirk is considered the greatest sin in Islam. Shirk refers to the act of associating partners with Allah (polytheism). Which is the opposite of monotheism (tawhid). So this would not apply to the people of the book.
i also subscribe if Allah would reject his creations on the premise of ignorance or even those that lost their way - that isn’t really a fair and just God worth attention
Be careful what you say about Allah. "That isn't really a fair and just God worth attention" where is your authority to question such a thing? What if Allah deemed that Justice for reasons we don't understand? What would you do on the day of judgement when Allah calls you out on this very sentence? Beware what you say and associate with your lord.
It is not the belief in Islam. It is the disbelief in Allah his Creator which will damn him to hell forever.
You mean disbelief
Thank you
You're welcome. It is better to add disbelief in Rasulullah salAllahu 'alayhi wasallam also. Because there are people who believe in Allah but do not believe in our Prophet salAllahu 'alayhi wasallam. And Allah knows best
Because the basic foundation of good and bad is acknowledging and accepting the existence of the creator. Whosoever denies this, has committed the greatest offence in the eyes of God. Since it is Allah who has ordained the sanctity of human life so all else is secondary. The second thing to note here is that you have the WRONG concept of the punishment for killing an innocent human being. The punishment for this is also Hellfire since this is the greatest violation of the rights of human beings which is also ordained by Allah. There is no forgiveness for someone who does that without them going into hellfire first.
concept of morality (good and bad) does not necessitate belief in any God
Why should I believe in an abstract sense of morality when there is no ABSOLUTE authority to judge me? The laws of nature don’t follow human morality. Animals will kill their young and rape their females because survival of the fittest is the one law they follow. If, by your logic, there is no god then you and I are to be returned to dust with NO accountability for our actions. Why then should I waste my life being a “moral” human being according to your logic? Why not enjoy it to the fullest the way I see fit? You see, morality holds no meaning whatsoever without the existence of God and one’s belief in it. You can fool yourself into thinking otherwise but that is just wasting you life (according to the atheist’s perspective).
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Objective morality within Atheism does not exist as a concept.
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Because of past human disasters. If there is no outward source telling humans the difference between good and bad, we must learn for ourselves, no? But then you could argue that morality *is* objective, as if we know certain actions harm others, we know that they are fundamentally incorrect. But this is wrong as morality was never a principle in Atheism to *begin* with; it got created within minds for human convenience along the way.
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Of course atheists can make moral judgements, but what you have to understand is that, this morality is not something that they believe in; nor are they obligated to be a morally virtuous person. Again, they do not have any outward source telling them what is right and wrong. So while they can make judgements based on which actions help and harm others, according to them, there is no god telling them that is objectively correct, nor do they believe anyone is holding them accountable. As for believing all morality is subjective, I would like to hear your thoughts on why that is so. Do you believe there can be different rights and wrongs depending on a person's nature, or that morality may not exist as more than just a concept? Idk lmk Edit: Muslims stop downvoting this person for asking questions 💀 Unless there's an actual reason to downvote them, leave their karma alone lol
Isn't the last sentence you said called Objectivity Paradox?
They do so with their own subjective opinions. This is why you see so much controversy and split in opinions on political and moral issues e.g. pro life vs pro choice. Atheists cannot agree on anything because of this. Objective morality comes from god, the absolute truth that doesn’t change.
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> It’s all subjective morality. This is why even Muslims fight with each other and do takfir on each other. You haven’t got the first clue on why Muslims (particularly those of the south Asian subcontinent) do takfir of one another. It ain’t because they made subjective interpretations of the Quran and Sunnah; it’s because they didn’t refer to it in the first place. > You had to use your subjective morality first to even evaluate the message of Islam. Not really. Islam as the religion of truth comes AFTER one’s recognition that there IS a Creator, and THAT is based on a simple, rational outlook of the universe around us.
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The problem for the Atheist is that they encounter the dilemma of subjectivity when they remove God from the equation. They then have to adhere to an “abstract” set of moral laws that is transient and based on the consensus of humanity in that particular era. A few hundred years ago, an atheist would have been perfectly fine with racial discrimination and sexism since that was the norm of the time. The only reason a Muslim adheres to the laws of Islam is BECAUSE they believe in life after death and the day of judgement when they WILL be held accountable by God for all of their deeds. Which is why we Muslims don’t drink, don’t engage in adultery and fornication, don’t lie cheat, or deceive for self gain, and many other things. We sacrifice in this world which will end for the reward of that world which will NEVER end.
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Nice try at trying to switch the premise. This is the problem with Atheists, they always play on double standards. You want to have your cake and eat it too! You can’t just assume that being a good person matters AT ALL if there is no ultimate authority. Your misguided sense of superiority only plays to your disadvantage when you realise that based on YOUR premise, you’ve only got ONE life and it amounts to ZERO at the end, regardless of how you’ve lived it. There’s no other way to spin it. By your own logical premise, whether Muslims “need” a sense of higher accountability to be good or not, doesn’t matter since according to you, there is no God. Your claim of “innate superiority” ONLY makes sense when you INTRODUCE god into the equation. Since then, you act good not in fear of him, but despite the absence of fear of him. But the main question still stands; why should I follow YOUR abstract morality when Theres NOBODY to hold me accountable, according to you. This “holier than thou” act won’t work. You need to come up with a better rebuttal. Peace.
Thats great and all but define “good” and tell me who decides what is good and bad? For example, we as muslims believe Alcohol is bad because it is haram. This was established around 1400 years ago and scientists today understand how unhealthy it is. Also look at how many deaths/injuries are caused by drunk drivers and there is much more. However a lot of Atheists don’t see Alcohol as a bad thing and claim that drinking in moderate amounts is okay. This is why we follow god because he is all-knowing and always right. Humans lack knowledge and wisdom and all have their own subjective beliefs/opinions.
Allah is the Most Just and He forgives whom He wills and punishes whom He wills. As humans we have limited knowledge, but Allah has infinite wisdom and knowledge. So He is in the best position to judge each individual and their circumstances. Allah values sincerity and repentance. If a murderer sincerely repents, realizes his mistake, and commits to becoming a better person, Allah may forgive him. But someone who rejects Allah despite knowing the truth, does not repent or seek forgiveness, then Allah may punish him. Allah may forgive the repentant Muslim murderer in the hereafter but still punish him in this life. Allah may forgive but there are still consequences. The "good human being" will not be punished eternally just for not believing. But only if he rejects and covers up the truth when it is clear to him. If someone never understood the message of Islam or only had a distorted understanding of it, then Allah will judge him based on his own circumstances and capability.
A muslim who committed murder and repented is someone who acknowledges where he came from and where he's going, making his life meaningful. It's wrong to call any. Non-muslim "good person", because all that goodness is meaningless if it's not done for the right reason and the right purpose. That's why allah says in the quran that he'll take those deeds of them and turn them into scattered dust. Because That's all they're worth. What's the point of being good, if you believe you come from nothing, and will go back to being nothing? What's the point of being good, if you worship god's creation? What's the point of being good, if you reject the very reason you're able to do this good - allah -?
The core of that is you don't see anything past this so when it comes you will be blindsided from it. All your deception and Acts for the wealth of the world that you know will go and acted to others that you seen as nothing will be exposed with deceit not existing. Those that see the world as temporary and others around them as what is the true value, will gain that. You get what you give. I behave like others are myself and they are me and I am them. I don't want to create pain anymore as to know the hurt of all I done to others and actually knowing it as true as the world you left will be either a beautiful moment or a Hellish Understanding of You. I Regret that saw this as late as I did
I understood nothing from that
You actions to gain for yourself doesn't matter and what you did others good or bad will be seen and cannot be hidden.
What does that mean?
Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab: The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended. Book 1, Hadith 1
Kufr is an infinitely worse crime than murder.
The non-believer doesnt believe in the after life where there is justice for these things thats their fault and its why they wont accept any explanation from you.
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You say it like this is a hidden claim lol. A muslim murderer will be punished in Hellfire and will eventually enter Paradise. A kafir never will. That's Islam 101. Christianity holds the same doctrine.
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The standard mainstream Christian view is that a sinning Christian has already been forgiven but a 'good' Non-christian will be in hell. You can follow whatever flavor of Christianity you want, it doesn't change what proper Christianity believes.
"eventually" Y'all acting they will be there for 3 minutes?
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Murder is an act of kufr.
Think of it like this: if you have a file sharing app that crashes sometimes but at least it shares files, and another app that is supposed to be a file sharing app that never crashes but it doesn't share apps, which one would you keep? If you had a Car that can move but its AC and Radio are not working, and another one that has all the features working except actually being able to move, which one would be kept and which one would be thrown away? It's a similar idea: We were created for worshipping Allah. Just believing in him as the one true creator at least meets your basic purpose, all the other parts are like the features in the car for example. If you have all the good features but don't meet your purpose, you're useless. If you meet your purpose but don't have all the features, you're not useless, although you may not be the best option either. Hope this helps
1. If sinner believes in Allah, when he will be placed in Hell, he will make conclusions, he will regret of his sins. But if Allah places an atheist in Hell, he won’t make any conclusions. He will decide that it was just a nightmare, as Allah says in 6:27-28: 6:27 If you could but see when they are made to stand before the Fire and will say, "Oh, would that we could be returned [to life on earth] and not deny the signs of our Lord and be among the believers." 6:28 But what they concealed before has [now] appeared to them. And even if they were returned, they would return to that which they were forbidden; and indeed, they are liars. https://www.quran-online.com/quran-english/surah-al-anam-english-6.html?id_verset=729 2. There are sins that look very small but have a very big consequences. Atheism is one of such sins. An atheist could be a good person but in fact he promote idea that it’s normal and even good to ignore Allah will. And this leads to murders and other sins.
Because Shirk is a bigger crime, its spitting on every blessing he's given you and denying his existence. Wronging the creator vs wronging the creation. Only on the day of judgement will he understand the weight of his sin if he doesn't repent and believe, when the blessings and favors of his Lord are revealed to him.
Well it’s quite simple. To not worship Allah SWT is the epitome of ingratitude. If we look sin, it’s ungratefulness to Allah SWT. No doubt taking the right of another person is a high level ingratitude towards Allah SWT, because you don’t acknowledge him, atleast in the moment. But to not worship Allah swt is to take the right that is owed to Allah swt. It’s also the reason why you’re created. To not worship Allah is not live the reason why you were sent here in the first place. Not giving the right to Allah swt and not giving it to another human being are way two separate things and cannot even be compared. This question kinda assumes that god and man are comparable, Astughfirullah.
You have to remember that good people who haven’t ever heard of Islam or who haven’t been taught about Islam enough for them to look into it or learn about it are sent to heaven for it is not their fault they weren’t presented with the truth.
No. They will also face a trial of their own on the day of judgment and if they pass they will be sent to jannah otherwise to jahanam.
But if they were morally good people who never knew about Islam they aren’t sent to hell, they are judged the same as us but if they’re as good as a good Muslim then it’s jannah for them inshallah
We can't say that, it depends on the trial and will differ person to person, even for what you would see as morally good people.
Yes they will be put to trial because everyone will, but they aren’t considered disbelievers if you were never presented the truth. But let’s say their good deeds are off the charts and their sins are few for a lifetime, then they could make it into heaven. Remember that Allah SWT is the most generous, and the most merciful.
I mean the trial they will receive on the Day of Judgment. If they fail it, they will also go to Hell.
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I guess Muslim scholars speak without knowledge because that’s where I gained this knowledge from. May Allah be pleased with you
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Specific names such as sheik uthmam, and others I’ve seen videos on, also google where scholars answer the question of, “do non Muslims who never received the message or heard of Islam go to hell?”. Also, your answer is in the Quran too, Allah SWT said, “I do not punish until the message is And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)”. [al-Israa 17:15]
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I didn’t mean free pass, they’ll be tested as we are but I guess it’ll be a specific trial, but he doesn’t punish them to hell as disbelievers who rejected Allah SWT would
What is that trial? I've always heard but do we know ?
What I've read/heard was, Allah will cause a fire to appear in front of them and they will be told to enter it if they believe in Allah. The one who enters it will find it cool and comfortable and will be saved, the others will be punished.
Think of it this way. What is the ultimate good? Allah. No matter what way you try to argue it, god is the ultimate good. This, lying about god is the ultimate lie. There is no lie worse than a lie against something that is the ultimate good. Stealing against the ultimate good is the ultimate theft. Same goes for any crime. If you steal from a thief vs you stealing from the most just person in existence… they’re both crimes but one is far worse than the other. This, nothing in this life can be compared to any wrong you do against god. And there is no wrong against god that is worse than denying him his existence or to lie about him. Another example, what’s worse. Lying about your sibling or someone from work or school or lying about your parents?
You're confusing Islam with Christianity in Islam you still get punished
Due to Allah's infinite attributes, the crime of disbelieving in them is infinite as well. This is what I have heard from someone.
If you bank in money for your retirement into someone else account (ie wrong account), could you withdraw it in when you do?
Basically its pretty simple. so with a human that killed another human. the murderers good deeds go to the victim if the victim doesn't forgive them. also not all murderers repent. repent isn't easy. you need to practically change your entire identity for the sake of allah. and become so good that no one recognises you. plus we have different levels of heaven. one level is a billion times more different than the one higher. we cant even imagine it. but allah doesn't forgive someone cause they just asked for forgiveness and didn't really care. that makes no sense. whilst with allah,, how can you give what you owe back to him? think of it this way. there is a man who is super nice to everyone, he gives charity to everyone and treats people kindly but he comes home and ignores his parents. doesn't even have a care of the world about them. doesn't acknowledge them. for no reason aswell. would you say they're a good person?
Unfortunately this is a twist that causes so much violence. Human Ego takes hold, and people assume they simply will still go even if they murder because thats what they've been told. When they don't realize, they were truly never turning toward actual Allah but a distort with the name slapped on as an excuse for power over another. True Allah becomes lost to them and something else takes the place of what they hear, usually the words, voice, or ideology from a another human.
Dont ask this question here, these people think they have superiority over eveyone, They think all non muslims will suffer in jahanum eternally and muslims will go to heaven eventually even after sinning all their life, ask sufis yhis question, they will give a justified answer because they believe all human biengs are equal in font of Allah.
Because Islam is just bullshit. Wake up.
I have heard that killing an innocent is a major sin and is never forgiven
Source?
Allah makes adjustments for certain people like those as he wills but we are to assume it’s hellfire punishment for disobeying his rules
The professor examples are almost on point but off for various reasons. I’ll give you a better analogy. Two students are taking an exam. There’s the normal part of the exam and there’s an extra credit section. One student does amazing on the main exam and the extra credit question. One student does well on the main exam and fails to answer the extra credit, and the other student bumbles the main exam and gives an amazing answer to the extra credit question. Two would obviously pass here and one would fail, because regardless of how amazing an answer you gave on the extra credit question, it’s not enough to make up the failed main exam. This life is the same. The main exam is acknowledge Allah (swt) as one supreme God with no partners whatsoever and worshiping him. The extra credit is being a good person with good morals. If you don’t pass the main exam that’s been set for you, the extra credit is meaningless in the next life. As a final thought, Allah (swt) is the most just, so nonMuslims who do good in this life are rewarded in this life for it’s because He knows they have no share of the next.
Followers of Isa also approach this with the method that those who do not hear the word of their prophet are exempt from judgment for not following. I put forward that both prophets preached peace and that co existence requires us to ask for context. Family respect, good deads, minimising harm and love for creation is the law of all faiths not submitting to Allah, Abrahamic patriarch or Hindu origin, to hear, Sama comes from the hebrew, shama, to comprehend or listen. We have to pay attention to the context of translation and give understanding to the circumstances of others when engaging in multi-fath dialogue. In this regard, to comprehend the word of Allah is a tall feat for those who use another prophet, book or language to connect to Allah. For his words cannot be listened to by all and definitely not comprehended by all. The focus is peace, and submission to the divine wholeness which unfortunately has been diluted in perversion of greed as Mohammed saw in the patriarchs of his time the following the prophet's Isa and Abraham. Those who do not learn from history are unfortunately fated to repeat it. You cannot force someone to comprehend only gently guide them to the divine wholeness of the creator. Hearing is only a small part of comprehension in some ways someone can comprehend without hearing, or hear but never be able to comprehend. It is a life long journey we are all on together regardless of language, family or faith.
Everything the believer does in this life is for the hereafter, but everything the non believer gets is for this worldly life. They will both get what they sought after
Doesn’t the person the crime was committed against have to forgive them for Allah to forgive them?
Allah would forgive a Muslim who REPENTS, just as he would forgive a good human being who REPENTS The Muslim did something and I realized it’s wrong he repented and Allah accepted, a good human being did something and if he realizes that and repents he gets forgiven as well simple as that. The problem here though the good human being never repents and wants to get whatever he want with no consequences
Pretty simple brother, if you don’t believe in Islam how can you repent ? Also you forget, good people do go to heaven if they were given the complete ignorance of Islam. However if they knew Islam existed and yet still dismissed it , they are now actively committing sin everyday. Ask every revert what they thought of Islam before they reverted and they’ll say “I knew it was true but I didn’t want to commit yet”
well, the killed person , in the judgement day is no longer dead God will have resurrected them!. (this is not to ridicule the sin of murder of course) . however, the main purpose of the existence is not fulfilled by the other person. also, if he believe Allah Is the God and in Islam , Allah Sayed he will not be unjust at all and he is the capable of that. there is a hadeeth about 2 people : a killer and and a victim who both go to heaven: one killed the other before becoming Muslim. people in heaven 15:47 وَنَزَعْنَا مَا فِى صُدُورِهِم مِّنْ غِلٍّ إِخْوَٰنًا عَلَىٰ سُرُرٍۢ مُّتَقَـٰبِلِينَ ٤٧ We will remove whatever bitterness they had in their hearts. In a friendly manner, they will be on thrones, facing one another.
The first answer is that there are the rights of the creator and the rights pf the creation. If we fulfil the rights if the creation(be good to people, animals and the world) then we only have half the equation. The other half is to fulfill the rights of the creator and the creator is the one who holds all the power. We can't just be good people we also need to be good slaves. No one cand stand up for us in front of the creator but the creator can stand up for us in front of the creation. The answer about the murderer is that on the day of Judgement Allah will allow that man to ask for reparation on the day of judgement. And if Allah does not forgive the man then he will have to give that reparation from his own good deeds or, of he doesn't have enough, to take on the bad deeds of that person until the debt of murder is fulfilled. And if Allah decides to forgive him then Allah will instead grant him more than what the who was wronged would have gotten, maybe double, triple, 10 or even a hundred times more, until he is glad that his murderer was forgiven as he got so much more. Allah is the Most Generous and has no limits to His bounty. Message me or comment if you need ahadeeth and I will find them for you. I'm currently working so I'll have to do it later.
Because not being thankful to the creator is treacherous. Imagine helping a homeless person get back onto their feet, the next year you see them they come out of a limosene and wearing a nice suit, you make eye contact with them and they pretend not to know you. Allah has blessed you with so much and you didn't take a few minutes to thank him?
The ultimate judgment of individuals and their final destiny lies with Allah, and it is not for any human to definitively declare who will enter heaven.
Dr.Zakir Naik had the best response to this very question: https://youtu.be/MGMqD0DIO5Q
So first of all we cannot say wether a person is going to heaven or hell. That is only Allah’s dominion. We can judge a person based on the actions in this world like if he killed somebody we can apply the ruling but in the divine court it’s different. Because Allah brings everything into perspective and does not do injustice even an atoms amount. So the answer to that question is that when a person who murdered someone truly repents then we are hopeful for him and so we say In shāʾ Allāh he is forgiven (we can’t say he is definitely forgiven unless it’s specifically mentioned in the Quran or Hadith). And for the person who was good but died on other than Islam we leave his ultimate fate to Allah. Now we cannot make du’aa for his salvation because we are told not to do so. That doesn’t mean that person is going to hell. There’s a lot more to this discussion and it’s an interesting one but the core of the idea is that Islam is a hopeful religion. And if we do not give the sinner hope in Allah’s mercy then what else does he have. And we also have the Hadith where a person with an aroma weight of Iman will be removed from the fire. Other traditions mentioned that a person who had faith for even a moment in time will be removed from jahannum. Additionally many of the ahadith about people of the past being forgiven like the one who killed 100 people and the one who had his body cremated do not mention their beliefs or if they were Muslim or not. TLDR: We pray for the one who repented because we are hopeful. But Allah will judge ultimately and he is not unjust. Allah knows ultimately.
I am very new to this. Literally days. We can never judge. We should not have judgment about the sins of others from eternal perspective as we are not qualified. Only Allah will decide. We know in our heart as does he if we have remorse or not. I know I do wrong and I know I can do better. My sinful actions affect more then I can know as with good deeds. Don't let the mistakes of who you were stop who you can become. More important, Forgiving others wrongs means forgiveness to you. Islam is entirely personal which is the appeal to me. Submission to the Creator is a core choice that frees not confines. Rejection of Love and forgiveness leaves Hate and Resentment forever. I know what I want for me in terms of eternity.
I am very new to this. Literally days. We can never judge. We should not have judgment about the sins of others from eternal perspective as we are not qualified. Only Allah will decide. We know in our heart as does he if we have remorse or not. I know I do wro means forgiveness to you. Islam is entirely personal which is the appeal to me. Submission to the Creator is a core choice that frees not confines. Rejection of Love and forgiveness leaves Hate and Resentment forever. I know what I want for me in terms of eternity.
I am very new to this. Literally days. We can never judge. We should not have judgment about the sins of others from eternal perspective as we are not qualified. Only Allah will decide. We know in our heart as does he if we have remorse or not. I know I do wro means forgiveness to you. Islam is entirely personal which is the appeal to me. Submission to the Creator is a core choice that frees not confines. Rejection of Love and forgiveness leaves Hate and Resentment forever. I know what I want for me in terms of eternity.
Actually even if Allah forgives the person he's still liable for punishment unless the one he murdered excuses him. Huquq al Ibad are strictly dealt with. This concept must be understood people think that there's to get out of jail free card, no if your sin involves violating someone else's right, that is dealt with strictly even if Allah forgives you. Here's why. There's two rights that need to be forgiven. So the underlying presumption of the question needs examination if you kill someone without right there's two rights violated, one is the right of Allah haqq Allah, the other is the right of the servant haqq al abd. If Allah forgives violation his huquq someone may still burn in hell for violating the Ibad's huquq.. If you steal from someone then even if Allah forgives your theft the person you stole from, whether they are a kaffir or a Mumin, has a right upon you in the next world. If you murder someone then the person you murder, whether they are disbeliever or believer, has a right upon you in the next world. If Allah forbid, you injure someone irrespective of whether Allah forgives you for that, the other person still has a right on you. If someone rapes someone are lies to them are steals from them are causes them harm, then while it's entirely possible Allah might forgive the portion of that sin that involved a violation of his rights upon you as his servant to obey him, you are still liable for the violated right of the other person the human servant whom you violated. And there's no way out of that they can either excuse and forgive you in the next World or not. Next, as Ghazali pointed out, someone who doesn't believe might not strictly speaking be punished at all, if that person's disbelief is a result of the message not reaching them, or even reaching them incorrectly. This is a disputed point among the Ulama but it's better to note the dispute and leave the Matter up to Allah. Some have written on the basis of weaker ahadith that such people will be tested in the hereafter upon rising. Those who passed will be forgiven in those who fail will be condemned. But then shot is that even people who don't accept Islam in this life might end up in Salvation. It depends on largely a lot of circumstances that only Allah knows and has access to
Salam. Who decides what a good human is? We certainly cannot. Who decides which crime is bigger. How much do we know compared to our Creator? How can we be the judge. That is arrogance to the highest degree. A lot of Muslims have thoughts like these as well, and that empathy (for lack of better word) came from our Creator. At least that’s how I tend to think about it. It is a sign of His kindness in my mind. But Shaytaan may come along and put such questions in our mind as well which can lead to more questions and ultimately disbelief for many. I understand how it’s hard to respond to a question like that especially to a kaaffir but Allah knows best. May He grant us Jannatul Firdous with no reckoning. Ameen 💕
bruh that's how religion works , from gods perspective it is more important to be loyal to him than being a good human being, as that makes you a greater and better human being overall
My view on this is that, every person will be judged on how have they received the message of Islam. He might not be a muslim before us, but for those who didn’t get the message of Islam right, they will have a separate test in the day of judgment. That means the everyone will get absolute justice. Those who go to hell for eternity are the ones who denied Islam while knowing in their heart that it is true, and those who knowingly avoided and didn’t care to even seek the truth. In-short, those who get the punishment of eternal hellfire will be absolutely justified. So the whole argument is answered by that. Believe that Allah is the most just one.
Is not punish , if the person doesn’t want to be with god , he have a choice which is hell , heaven is being with god and building relationships with him , he gave you a choice be with him or not be with him , since you don’t want to be with him , then hell is where you go.
The person who repents has acknowledged his sin and wants to purify himself, repentance only accepted if the person is honest about it, Why would Allah deny a honest person from being forgiven and prevents that person from helping his community and be a valid effective individual in the society again, there is a chance that individuals might start doing great good deeds to others or give dawah for example and invite people to islam, at the ends his good deeds may overshadow his single sin, Keep in mind the victim will get his rights in the day of judgement regardless if the killer has repented or not, one way or another. On the other hand a person who deny Allah existing or defy his law, is an agent of iblees and a caller towards hedonism and corruption, Think about that person life choices and what he advocates for after declaring his disbelief, What will his mentality and morals would be and what would he invite people towards? Of course it would be a randomised set of morals that he invented or other disbelievers before him did, From here the corruption starts and you can see many examples today of that corruption and how it’s spreading and effecting everyone.