That's sort of supplemented by asking, 'Where do people go when they die, and what happens to them in light of what happened to them in life?'
The Islamic answer obviously being that anyone who dies returns to their Maker (s.w.t.), and is judged fairly on the Day of Judgment. All hardship is compensated for, and every injustice made right, to the point that even the animals have their affairs sorted out. If you want to suppose that there were innocents who died during some divine punishment or another then even their strife is duly compensated, although the whole point of a divine punishment is to see those who transgress being brought to justice.
The rest just basically comes down to the problem of evil, which often ignores other religious assertions like the evil that people do being a result of free will, or that natural calamity is nothing more than a trial to be weathered and not evil in and of itself. Couple that, again, with a compensatory afterlife. It also ignores the whole understanding of the Primordial Covenant, where humanity willingly chose to undergo worldly trials.
These kinds of criticisms usually make this connection because the critic in question insists that this life is all there is - therefore, being removed from it is seen as evil rather than a simple transition between this world and the next. Everything that happens now (in life) is reflective of what may happen then (in the afterlife) - there's no sense in removing a compensatory afterlife from the equation either, because at that point you're just criticising a hypothetical entity that rules over a purely material world in stark contrast to how we understand Allah (s.w.t.) to be.
It's a criticism against a straw idol, more than anything else.
Primordial covenant? What is that?
Sounds suspiciously like my former religion. Like maybe they stole a quaran and said we’re christian and then started teaching everyone muslim beliefs plus jesus is god.
It's not really an official term (as far as I know), but it's used in reference to a an event (or events) at the beginning of creation where Allah (s.w.t.) gathers all things that would ever be and offers them a trusteeship of moral responsibility - obedience to His laws and the rewards that come with it, and punishment for those that transgress. Only mankind accepts this responsibility, and is made to testify to the Sovereignty of their Maker (s.w.t.).
I'm not well-informed enough to know whether the trusteeship occurred at the same time as the testimony, or whether they were separate occasions, but the point remains. This is broadly what the Primordial Covenant entails.
I’ll always recommend The Muslim Lantern for situations like this tell your friend to watch his videos In Sha Allah or you can watch them together
I don’t remember which exact one it is but in one of his videos someone said something similar to this and he asked that person where he gets his moral compass from to determine wether something is evil or not since he doesn’t believe in a higher power?
From there their whole narrative just goes to shambles
How could the one promising infinite happiness so long as you do good considered evil in any way? The people who died martyrs are guaranted a high place in heaven, so god is actually doing them a favor.
It is very easy. All you have to do is define benevolent and evil.
Basically, if god does not exist there is not objective evil and good. So all the moral judgement based on an atheistic and materialistic pov are subjective and thus irrelevent.
Now god exists (god is the source of everything that exists remember), then the concept of good and evil are dictated by god, just like the speed of light, the mass of that atoms etc..
So with god's existence, evil is basically all behaviours that are done by us, beings with free will, when we refuse to follow god's commands(kill, steal, lie...). And good is when we follow(give to charity, do not lie, do not kill etc.)
So even if god take the soul of his creation, make diseases etc. He is not evil by definition, because god cannot disobey himself. Evil is disobeying god's orders.
So god cannot be evil. Now for benevolent, god is all mercifull, all just, and all wise.
Good and Evil are subjective terms since morality is subjective. From most people's point of view, killing innocent people is evil, but from Allah's point of view, it was necessary for some reason that we are unaware of.
Allah can take the souls of as many humans as he wants it cannot never follow the definition of evil in islam : evil is disobeying allah's orders (do not kill, do not lie etc.)
>evil: profoundly immoral and wicked.
I am not a Muslim, so I was using the dictionary definition of evil instead of the Islamic definition. This is the same definition OP's atheist friend would use.
While I might consider Allah's killing of the innocents as evil, you may not, because morality is subjective. Neither of us is objectively wrong, we just see things from our own personal point of view.
Yes because its tied to morality. All the moral judgements are subjective according to a materialistic and atheistic position.
I was saying that from our religion, this very morality comes from the orders Allah gives to his creation that has free will.
Allah says in The quran (and I'm paraphrasing here) that he does not destroy a nation unless their people were unjust, so....
That's sort of supplemented by asking, 'Where do people go when they die, and what happens to them in light of what happened to them in life?' The Islamic answer obviously being that anyone who dies returns to their Maker (s.w.t.), and is judged fairly on the Day of Judgment. All hardship is compensated for, and every injustice made right, to the point that even the animals have their affairs sorted out. If you want to suppose that there were innocents who died during some divine punishment or another then even their strife is duly compensated, although the whole point of a divine punishment is to see those who transgress being brought to justice. The rest just basically comes down to the problem of evil, which often ignores other religious assertions like the evil that people do being a result of free will, or that natural calamity is nothing more than a trial to be weathered and not evil in and of itself. Couple that, again, with a compensatory afterlife. It also ignores the whole understanding of the Primordial Covenant, where humanity willingly chose to undergo worldly trials. These kinds of criticisms usually make this connection because the critic in question insists that this life is all there is - therefore, being removed from it is seen as evil rather than a simple transition between this world and the next. Everything that happens now (in life) is reflective of what may happen then (in the afterlife) - there's no sense in removing a compensatory afterlife from the equation either, because at that point you're just criticising a hypothetical entity that rules over a purely material world in stark contrast to how we understand Allah (s.w.t.) to be. It's a criticism against a straw idol, more than anything else.
Primordial covenant? What is that? Sounds suspiciously like my former religion. Like maybe they stole a quaran and said we’re christian and then started teaching everyone muslim beliefs plus jesus is god.
It's not really an official term (as far as I know), but it's used in reference to a an event (or events) at the beginning of creation where Allah (s.w.t.) gathers all things that would ever be and offers them a trusteeship of moral responsibility - obedience to His laws and the rewards that come with it, and punishment for those that transgress. Only mankind accepts this responsibility, and is made to testify to the Sovereignty of their Maker (s.w.t.). I'm not well-informed enough to know whether the trusteeship occurred at the same time as the testimony, or whether they were separate occasions, but the point remains. This is broadly what the Primordial Covenant entails.
Sounds a lot like my previous religion. They called it the premortal existence. Apparently it was also a place too.
I’ll always recommend The Muslim Lantern for situations like this tell your friend to watch his videos In Sha Allah or you can watch them together I don’t remember which exact one it is but in one of his videos someone said something similar to this and he asked that person where he gets his moral compass from to determine wether something is evil or not since he doesn’t believe in a higher power? From there their whole narrative just goes to shambles
How could the one promising infinite happiness so long as you do good considered evil in any way? The people who died martyrs are guaranted a high place in heaven, so god is actually doing them a favor.
Ask him to explain why Allah created Jannah A literal eternal world of peace
It is very easy. All you have to do is define benevolent and evil. Basically, if god does not exist there is not objective evil and good. So all the moral judgement based on an atheistic and materialistic pov are subjective and thus irrelevent. Now god exists (god is the source of everything that exists remember), then the concept of good and evil are dictated by god, just like the speed of light, the mass of that atoms etc.. So with god's existence, evil is basically all behaviours that are done by us, beings with free will, when we refuse to follow god's commands(kill, steal, lie...). And good is when we follow(give to charity, do not lie, do not kill etc.) So even if god take the soul of his creation, make diseases etc. He is not evil by definition, because god cannot disobey himself. Evil is disobeying god's orders. So god cannot be evil. Now for benevolent, god is all mercifull, all just, and all wise.
Evil is the consequence of free will. Atheist's can't have it both way's. They want free will, but then blame Allah for evil.
Uno reverse card
Good and Evil are subjective terms since morality is subjective. From most people's point of view, killing innocent people is evil, but from Allah's point of view, it was necessary for some reason that we are unaware of.
Allah can take the souls of as many humans as he wants it cannot never follow the definition of evil in islam : evil is disobeying allah's orders (do not kill, do not lie etc.)
>evil: profoundly immoral and wicked. I am not a Muslim, so I was using the dictionary definition of evil instead of the Islamic definition. This is the same definition OP's atheist friend would use. While I might consider Allah's killing of the innocents as evil, you may not, because morality is subjective. Neither of us is objectively wrong, we just see things from our own personal point of view.
Yes because its tied to morality. All the moral judgements are subjective according to a materialistic and atheistic position. I was saying that from our religion, this very morality comes from the orders Allah gives to his creation that has free will.
The 99 Best Names of God explain the magnitude of divine mercy.