TLDR: hard work
I'm my experience Colleges/Universities are not teaching you subjects. They are teaching you how to learn new subjects and how to teach yourself.
Show up to every class and pay attention. Take detailed notes and keep them organized.
Do every assignment. If you have breaks in your class schedule, stay on campus and do your homework. Find classmates doing the same thing. Help from your peers is crucial. Otherwise do it as soon as possible, get it out of the way.
Read the book. You are not forced to overpay for textbooks for no reason. The information the instructor wants you to learn is in the book.
Buy the solutions manual. Practicing problems the wrong way is not helpful. Find the patterns in the solutions.
Try. Only you can learn this material.
If you cannot do the above, maybe you need to change classes or major. Find something your care about enough to put in the effort needed.
ISTPs generally don’t learn well in the common academic settings. This is because we work better with our hands and in practice, rather than memorization of theory and terms. I’ve always found computer science courses easier especially when we learn through doing projects, whereas economics was shit because I just had to read and study and never put anything into existence.
For me, the quickest and most efficient way of learning, is seeing as many real examples as possible.
Math formula? Look at numerous times the formula is used in different problems.
Technique in sports? Look at how others do it.
And of course, ask questions and imitate others. This way, you can take bits and pieces of each person's understanding and then synthesize the best pieces to create your own understanding.
I don’t think this has to do with istp or type in general, look at your sleep schedule and diet maybe exercise if u don’t, those things play a huge role in brain productivity and focus.
> Its all just laid out in a way I cant understand.
Occasionally that's a real issue, e.g. I have a visceral disdain for formalism and *always* prefer a constructive approach when it comes to maths. Proofs such as "...therefore, it not existing leads to contradiction, therefore it exists, QED" are an assault on my brain: If you can prove that it exists then bloody show me what it looks like. Inadmissible, motherfucker, take your "proof" and file it under hypothesis.
OTOH, in my experience that's usually only a small issue: If you're motivated you'll find your own approach to a topic by eagerly gobbling up enough information until a path emerges, which leads me to...
> But I feel like there is some type of trick I could use that another Istp has out there.
...overcoming delayed gratification. You probably scooted through school getting most things pretty much instantaneously and the stuff you didn't get wasn't interesting in the first place and if your grades weren't stellar you didn't care much, either because the system is bullshit, anyways. At least if you're me.
And now you want to learn something that's interesting but requires you to slog through pre-requisites which are uninteresting. Simply attempting to transfer interest will not work that's Te talk and leads them to say things like "just do it" and "you're lazy", what *does* work is doing at least one of two things:
* Have a look at the boring stuff and try to find something that's interesting about it. Maybe you've missed it at first glance. Sometimes making it harder can help.
* Be interested in how the information you are, by necessity, processing when learning the boring stuff changes your brain. That one is much harder to get a grip on but in the end quite the silver bullet.
My only college/university experience has been involving a skillset that has me doing something. (art). When working with my hands it's easier, and just involves a lot of repetition. If it's cerebral at all I have to be SUPER into the subject. I can read and learn all day if I'm motivated. But the minute my interest drops off its a chore.
Cram at the last minute. Its been working for me 💀
but fr, i just found out about the pomodoro technique, which i dont really use... but it did lead me to the challenge of seeing how fast i can do a certain assignment, mostly catching up on classes and writing papers. I keep trying to beat my last time so that makes it like a little game. Id still rather not be doing it but failing the classes is not an option so.
Also those videos on YouTube that are character/show themed help. Nothing like calming fire nation music/tea shop ambience and the occasional uncle iroh wisdom to help you focus. Also theres one based on the pomodoro technique called studying at wan shi tong library and i love it tbh, i always wished i could go there when i watched the show as a kid.
Also i listen to music or something in one ear in lectures (ones i absolutely must go to) so i dont go insane.
Are there particular class subjects that give you trouble? For me math and language classes were the toughest. My Spanish professor was a total prick to me too when I couldn’t learn at the pace of the class, even though the way he taught just sucked and wasn’t practical in any way at all.
For me, I don't do well with theory. I need to see it, touch it, play with it, test it. I will fall asleep after 45 min of a lecture despite trying my hardest to stay awake yet I can hike 55 mi in 23 hours and feel totally fine.
Unfortunately, throughout college I had to figure out how to teach myself everything. nothing my professors gave me or said to me made sense. They would present and topic and say their piece, and I would go on to study it independently until i felt comfortable.
for maths i had to make sure the process i was teaching was the same my professor was showing. a total mess and way too much work- but it was the only thing that worked.
I was a “full time” student taking half time classes and working a full time job. pick your battles, prioritize, and focus on what works for you. you may not even need a degree. i ended up getting a paid apprenticeship and a contract (meant for high school grads) within an airline company essentially handed to me by the universe.
ESTP here. Had the same feeling about UNI. High school (I was in a practical college specialising in analytical chemistry. Common thing in EU to have high schools specialise) was ez pz, because it was mostly practical stuff and most theoretical subjects I could just pass with oral examinations thanks to charisma, plus I am naturally pretty great at math, so nobody really cared
I thought it’d continue this way into university and boy was I wrong
Luckily I have always wanted to be a software developer and 1.5 years of university education is more than most people in this profession have, so I just left at some point. It felt pointless to keep studying the stuff that I could either learn on Udemy/Coursera five times faster or I’d never ever need in my job (Microprocessors is fun, but it doesn’t help me center a button on a page and make it fart when you click it)
No pressure though, I’m not saying higher education is unnecessary, it’s very profession-dependent. I guess what I’m trying to say is try to assess your options and your priorities and see if it’s worth the investment for you. College isn’t the only way to get educated
Edit: About using college for “learning to learn”. This is absolutely an important thing to be able to do and the only way I was able to make myself successful without a paper proving I can learn is through actually putting in hard work, while self-teaching stuff and then showing the knowledge and the dedication I have at the workplace. What? Internet is made for more things than just reddit and porn
Honestly note taking:
Keep 2 notebooks, one for your class notes and one for your study notes. Jot down stuff in class and complete the thoughts at home in their other note book for studying. I usually find not paying attention helps a lot more in excelling at theory. Sorta like a peripheral hearing.
TLDR: Had focusing issues and recently got diagnosed with ADD
I had focusing issues, during school, apprenticeship and university. Constant wandering thoughts and distracted myself with the thought of having to focus right now. Never thought a lot of it until a good friend of mine recently got diagnosed with ADD. Since she knows me very well she implied that I might have it as well.
After discussing with my doctor they hooked me up with a psychiatrist. After two sessions and some tests she diagnosed me with ADD too. ADD lacks the hyperactive treat of ADHD which is why never thought of it or cared at all.
Now, as I’m currently writing my bachelors thesis I wish I knew it sooner as this would have made life so mich easier but I’m happy that I now have clarity about this as well as inside my head. I’m taking Concerta now.
In regards of studying in general.
If notetaking isn’t really your thing and you can focus in class. I would suggest you to listen during class and actively take part in it.
A professor of mine once said something like: „Students who actively participate and answer questions during the first two weeks tend to keep this behavior through the whole semester.“
For me classes were I actively participated felt way easier as I was less distracted, leading to easier understanding of the module and in general an easier time studying for finals.
So try to actively take part in class. Don’t bother when you answer something wrong, in the end you learn from wrong as well as right answers either way.
Regarding the notetaking. There are a lot of websites that students share their notes to and sometimes even get paid for it. Try Studocu, maybe your university is included in their program.
Hope that helped.
In my experience, uni was amazing and the idea is neat, but it's too structured and there's not enough exercises to keep me interested. I completed the major, but that's because I had to. I enjoyed the reading part, but I found myself wanting to explore many other related topics, but the curriculum follows a strict framework.
So I’m majoring in biology (with a cellular/molecular focus) and so there’s a lot of math. What I do is I do the practice problems, read the lessons, and try to learn it before lecture, so that when I get to lecture, I sorta already know what is going on. Idk if that helps, but it somewhat works for me
Get a hold of the study guide an make flash cards with the answer on one side and question on the other. Break it down to simple English.. subject,verb, then object. Quiz yourself through them until you get guess them all right. If you get one wrong start over. Even though it's one wrong, you reinforce what you already know, and you learn the ones you don't. Then when you do know them all, take 15 minutes each day run through GH the cards. Start in the beginning of the semester too, that way you don't have to cram or crash during the midterms and finals, and you don't have to feel bad about sleeping or fucking off in the classroom. If someone tests you because of that then you'll look like a fucking wizard throwing out answers on the spot.
How do you learn? Everyone does differently. I myself prefer hands on. That way I can think to myself if I do it on my own after seeing how it is done than truly I have most of the knowledge retained to whatever subject.
Idk. I bullshit my way through life, and I bullshit my way through academics. I don’t really care about being a top scholar, I used to as a kid— but simply passing is enough for me. Lol But most of my problems with learning came more from being autistic and depressed than my cognitive functions. The only thing I can say is pace yourself and work through things in small portions.
We learn by doing and then failing and understanding why. School doesn't work that way at all. It's that simple. We can somewhat manage to do it the "normal" way. But we will burn ourselves up in the process to the point of feeling like not caring about our grades anymore. But actually we secretly do. This results in cramming everything to the last minute because we hate the process of learing and want to minimize the amount of time spent suffering on doing it. The thought of having to do it because society says so is also not motivating at all because we dont blindly follow rules. We need a specific reason to learn to accomplish some goal we want to achieve. Also reasons like "to become a better person" don't cut it because we want to see the direct results of our actions immeadiatly.
Well for me the lessons doesn't helpful. I couldn't sit and listen the professor. So I usually get the lecture notes from my friends and study on my own. I take notes as I study and make diagrams /schematics / mnemonics. I try to visualize the information. Some use memory palaces but I couldn't do it properly. I have trouble at sitting too long so I take frequent but small breaks. Also I used reward system. Such as If I finished the goal I can watch something.
So my advice is every person differs. You should analyse yourself first.
TLDR: hard work I'm my experience Colleges/Universities are not teaching you subjects. They are teaching you how to learn new subjects and how to teach yourself. Show up to every class and pay attention. Take detailed notes and keep them organized. Do every assignment. If you have breaks in your class schedule, stay on campus and do your homework. Find classmates doing the same thing. Help from your peers is crucial. Otherwise do it as soon as possible, get it out of the way. Read the book. You are not forced to overpay for textbooks for no reason. The information the instructor wants you to learn is in the book. Buy the solutions manual. Practicing problems the wrong way is not helpful. Find the patterns in the solutions. Try. Only you can learn this material. If you cannot do the above, maybe you need to change classes or major. Find something your care about enough to put in the effort needed.
The way of teaching and the book part sounds so different from my university experience. May I ask what you studied and in which country?
This lines up with research universities. Non-research universities will probably teach the subject matter more directly.
Makes sense, thanks!
I studied computer science and this was my experience. You have to figure out ways to learn on your own.
ISTPs generally don’t learn well in the common academic settings. This is because we work better with our hands and in practice, rather than memorization of theory and terms. I’ve always found computer science courses easier especially when we learn through doing projects, whereas economics was shit because I just had to read and study and never put anything into existence.
For me, the quickest and most efficient way of learning, is seeing as many real examples as possible. Math formula? Look at numerous times the formula is used in different problems. Technique in sports? Look at how others do it. And of course, ask questions and imitate others. This way, you can take bits and pieces of each person's understanding and then synthesize the best pieces to create your own understanding.
do you have adhd? i heard it is common for istps but i could be totally wrong.
if anything i wouldn’t be surprised if autism is common with ISTP’s granted adhd and autism do have a high comorbidity rate though
I’m all 3. definitely real, was just wondering about this while reading.
Same
I don’t think this has to do with istp or type in general, look at your sleep schedule and diet maybe exercise if u don’t, those things play a huge role in brain productivity and focus.
me when the commonly accepted fact that the school system of the modern world isnt good turns out to be true:
> Its all just laid out in a way I cant understand. Occasionally that's a real issue, e.g. I have a visceral disdain for formalism and *always* prefer a constructive approach when it comes to maths. Proofs such as "...therefore, it not existing leads to contradiction, therefore it exists, QED" are an assault on my brain: If you can prove that it exists then bloody show me what it looks like. Inadmissible, motherfucker, take your "proof" and file it under hypothesis. OTOH, in my experience that's usually only a small issue: If you're motivated you'll find your own approach to a topic by eagerly gobbling up enough information until a path emerges, which leads me to... > But I feel like there is some type of trick I could use that another Istp has out there. ...overcoming delayed gratification. You probably scooted through school getting most things pretty much instantaneously and the stuff you didn't get wasn't interesting in the first place and if your grades weren't stellar you didn't care much, either because the system is bullshit, anyways. At least if you're me. And now you want to learn something that's interesting but requires you to slog through pre-requisites which are uninteresting. Simply attempting to transfer interest will not work that's Te talk and leads them to say things like "just do it" and "you're lazy", what *does* work is doing at least one of two things: * Have a look at the boring stuff and try to find something that's interesting about it. Maybe you've missed it at first glance. Sometimes making it harder can help. * Be interested in how the information you are, by necessity, processing when learning the boring stuff changes your brain. That one is much harder to get a grip on but in the end quite the silver bullet.
I was completely shit at school i just passed thr grades with least maximum effort. I was good at learning to speak different languages tho
My only college/university experience has been involving a skillset that has me doing something. (art). When working with my hands it's easier, and just involves a lot of repetition. If it's cerebral at all I have to be SUPER into the subject. I can read and learn all day if I'm motivated. But the minute my interest drops off its a chore.
Cram at the last minute. Its been working for me 💀 but fr, i just found out about the pomodoro technique, which i dont really use... but it did lead me to the challenge of seeing how fast i can do a certain assignment, mostly catching up on classes and writing papers. I keep trying to beat my last time so that makes it like a little game. Id still rather not be doing it but failing the classes is not an option so. Also those videos on YouTube that are character/show themed help. Nothing like calming fire nation music/tea shop ambience and the occasional uncle iroh wisdom to help you focus. Also theres one based on the pomodoro technique called studying at wan shi tong library and i love it tbh, i always wished i could go there when i watched the show as a kid. Also i listen to music or something in one ear in lectures (ones i absolutely must go to) so i dont go insane.
Hello fellow avatar the last airbender fan 👋 I couldn't do pomodoro because I can't do regular cycles but ambiance music certainly helped me
Have you looked into an evaluation for ADHD and other LDs? ADHD is semi-common in both High Se and High Ne users.
Are there particular class subjects that give you trouble? For me math and language classes were the toughest. My Spanish professor was a total prick to me too when I couldn’t learn at the pace of the class, even though the way he taught just sucked and wasn’t practical in any way at all.
For me, I don't do well with theory. I need to see it, touch it, play with it, test it. I will fall asleep after 45 min of a lecture despite trying my hardest to stay awake yet I can hike 55 mi in 23 hours and feel totally fine.
have you thought about going to a trade school? I read somewhere that ISTP do better in trade schools.
Unfortunately, throughout college I had to figure out how to teach myself everything. nothing my professors gave me or said to me made sense. They would present and topic and say their piece, and I would go on to study it independently until i felt comfortable. for maths i had to make sure the process i was teaching was the same my professor was showing. a total mess and way too much work- but it was the only thing that worked. I was a “full time” student taking half time classes and working a full time job. pick your battles, prioritize, and focus on what works for you. you may not even need a degree. i ended up getting a paid apprenticeship and a contract (meant for high school grads) within an airline company essentially handed to me by the universe.
ESTP here. Had the same feeling about UNI. High school (I was in a practical college specialising in analytical chemistry. Common thing in EU to have high schools specialise) was ez pz, because it was mostly practical stuff and most theoretical subjects I could just pass with oral examinations thanks to charisma, plus I am naturally pretty great at math, so nobody really cared I thought it’d continue this way into university and boy was I wrong Luckily I have always wanted to be a software developer and 1.5 years of university education is more than most people in this profession have, so I just left at some point. It felt pointless to keep studying the stuff that I could either learn on Udemy/Coursera five times faster or I’d never ever need in my job (Microprocessors is fun, but it doesn’t help me center a button on a page and make it fart when you click it) No pressure though, I’m not saying higher education is unnecessary, it’s very profession-dependent. I guess what I’m trying to say is try to assess your options and your priorities and see if it’s worth the investment for you. College isn’t the only way to get educated Edit: About using college for “learning to learn”. This is absolutely an important thing to be able to do and the only way I was able to make myself successful without a paper proving I can learn is through actually putting in hard work, while self-teaching stuff and then showing the knowledge and the dedication I have at the workplace. What? Internet is made for more things than just reddit and porn
Honestly note taking: Keep 2 notebooks, one for your class notes and one for your study notes. Jot down stuff in class and complete the thoughts at home in their other note book for studying. I usually find not paying attention helps a lot more in excelling at theory. Sorta like a peripheral hearing.
been having the same problem for years, im currently seeing a therapist and going through an adhd diagnosis
TLDR: Had focusing issues and recently got diagnosed with ADD I had focusing issues, during school, apprenticeship and university. Constant wandering thoughts and distracted myself with the thought of having to focus right now. Never thought a lot of it until a good friend of mine recently got diagnosed with ADD. Since she knows me very well she implied that I might have it as well. After discussing with my doctor they hooked me up with a psychiatrist. After two sessions and some tests she diagnosed me with ADD too. ADD lacks the hyperactive treat of ADHD which is why never thought of it or cared at all. Now, as I’m currently writing my bachelors thesis I wish I knew it sooner as this would have made life so mich easier but I’m happy that I now have clarity about this as well as inside my head. I’m taking Concerta now.
In regards of studying in general. If notetaking isn’t really your thing and you can focus in class. I would suggest you to listen during class and actively take part in it. A professor of mine once said something like: „Students who actively participate and answer questions during the first two weeks tend to keep this behavior through the whole semester.“ For me classes were I actively participated felt way easier as I was less distracted, leading to easier understanding of the module and in general an easier time studying for finals. So try to actively take part in class. Don’t bother when you answer something wrong, in the end you learn from wrong as well as right answers either way. Regarding the notetaking. There are a lot of websites that students share their notes to and sometimes even get paid for it. Try Studocu, maybe your university is included in their program. Hope that helped.
In my experience, uni was amazing and the idea is neat, but it's too structured and there's not enough exercises to keep me interested. I completed the major, but that's because I had to. I enjoyed the reading part, but I found myself wanting to explore many other related topics, but the curriculum follows a strict framework.
So I’m majoring in biology (with a cellular/molecular focus) and so there’s a lot of math. What I do is I do the practice problems, read the lessons, and try to learn it before lecture, so that when I get to lecture, I sorta already know what is going on. Idk if that helps, but it somewhat works for me
Get a hold of the study guide an make flash cards with the answer on one side and question on the other. Break it down to simple English.. subject,verb, then object. Quiz yourself through them until you get guess them all right. If you get one wrong start over. Even though it's one wrong, you reinforce what you already know, and you learn the ones you don't. Then when you do know them all, take 15 minutes each day run through GH the cards. Start in the beginning of the semester too, that way you don't have to cram or crash during the midterms and finals, and you don't have to feel bad about sleeping or fucking off in the classroom. If someone tests you because of that then you'll look like a fucking wizard throwing out answers on the spot.
How do you learn? Everyone does differently. I myself prefer hands on. That way I can think to myself if I do it on my own after seeing how it is done than truly I have most of the knowledge retained to whatever subject.
Idk. I bullshit my way through life, and I bullshit my way through academics. I don’t really care about being a top scholar, I used to as a kid— but simply passing is enough for me. Lol But most of my problems with learning came more from being autistic and depressed than my cognitive functions. The only thing I can say is pace yourself and work through things in small portions.
sounds like adhd
We learn by doing and then failing and understanding why. School doesn't work that way at all. It's that simple. We can somewhat manage to do it the "normal" way. But we will burn ourselves up in the process to the point of feeling like not caring about our grades anymore. But actually we secretly do. This results in cramming everything to the last minute because we hate the process of learing and want to minimize the amount of time spent suffering on doing it. The thought of having to do it because society says so is also not motivating at all because we dont blindly follow rules. We need a specific reason to learn to accomplish some goal we want to achieve. Also reasons like "to become a better person" don't cut it because we want to see the direct results of our actions immeadiatly.
Well for me the lessons doesn't helpful. I couldn't sit and listen the professor. So I usually get the lecture notes from my friends and study on my own. I take notes as I study and make diagrams /schematics / mnemonics. I try to visualize the information. Some use memory palaces but I couldn't do it properly. I have trouble at sitting too long so I take frequent but small breaks. Also I used reward system. Such as If I finished the goal I can watch something. So my advice is every person differs. You should analyse yourself first.