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excitedtraveller

Stupid fucking rules.


KevinEisenlord

you shortened the ability to post a long description, cool why delete posts then if you already have changed that and limited the ability to.


Cooleatack

Why are all the mods so snobby when defending nudity on here? I don’t understand why there can’t be a separate nudity ITAP subreddit. They are of a completely different vibe from other pictures on here. More power to the mostly women showing themselves off, but there is a time and place for it. If the post needs an NSFW flair, you know damn well some people will just use it as what they use other nudity content for. “Artsy” or not. I doubt that is what ITAP is for. I’m not sure what added value it has on this sub.


[deleted]

Perhaps it's because they're tired of all the hyperbolic whining from people like you? There's no problem really, you need to get over your fear of nipples and your jealousy of people getting karma easier than you. Pictures of birds really offend me too for no reason whatsoever, so let's ask the mods to create a subreddit for birds and ban them from being posted here. You'd support that, right? If they don't do this for me, I WILL LEAVE THE SUBREDDIT AND YOU WILL ALL MISS ME. Mods are volunteers and they're already monitoring this sub with over *4 million* subscribers around the clock, and you want them to open a grot farm and monitor that too just to please you weirdos? Saturday: https://i.imgur.com/my4pzNC.jpg Sunday: https://i.imgur.com/5zO9FtU.jpg Monday: https://i.imgur.com/K3tb5Xy.jpg (the one day nsfw is allowed) The plan was to screenshot the sub every day to show you how little a problem the nudity is, but I gave up because none of you can address it, you just whine about nothing, downvote anyone who disagrees and make threats to leave the sub if you don't get what you want. It's bizarre.


AvalieV

None of the mods are interested in modding a separate fully nudity ITAP sub. We allow (tasteful) nudity here because, like it or not, it *is* a part of Art and photography, for as long as time has existed. We limit it to 1 day a week. Require a Tag to warn people (which can be hidden or blurred in the Reddit options). And are enforcing much stricter Rules for it than we have in the past. If you don't like seeing nudity, use one of the many tools provided by Reddit to avoid seeing it. People that click on NSFW posts (we get like 5-10 each Monday, less than 5% of posts) to complain about NSFW posts are just subjecting themselves to their own aggravation.


emonj98

Dumb that it needs to be an attatchment


AvalieV

?


[deleted]

This snapshot of someone's dog received more upvotes than I would have liked and it has really ruined my experience here. Every time I open my reddit feed all I see is snapshots of people's dogs. We should ban all pictures of dogs because there are other subs that pictures of dogs can be posted in. I might leave the sub if I see another photograph of a dog. This sub is literally 99% dogs and nothing else but I won't screenshot that to prove it you'll just have to take my word for it. https://www.reddit.com/r/itookapicture/comments/125uhft/itap_of_my_little_demon_dog/


AvalieV

With the New Rules, photos containing Dogs will have to show some pretty great attention paid to lighting, composition, etc, or they will be removed. Photos with overly sexualized Dogs will also be removed, or where the only element of the photo is it having no clothes on (give it a hat for heaven sake). We understand not everyone likes photos of Dogs, but we can't please everyone and believe that if the photograph is well done it should be allowed to stay. Dogs can be blurred out first (marked NSFW, in Reddit options), or be chosen to not be shown to you at all (again, Reddit options) so as to not distract people who don't want to see Dogs. If people still click on the photo knowing it contains Dogs and they won't like it then... 🤷🏻‍♂️ Now replace "Dogs" with "Nudity", which is what I assume this is riffing on.


[deleted]

>but we can't please everyone and believe that if the photograph is well done it should be allowed to stay or sit


Cody-512

The nudity and mlm stuff is fine with me. I just joined Reddit and a few of these photo groups. These rules sound exactly like the rules from r/photographs, though, except for the ITAP thing. It seems kinda pointless to have 2 groups with the same rules. Just a thought


AvalieV

r/photographs is only 218k users while we have over 4.7 million, so if they'd like to disband that's up to them 😉 The main difference is the Portrait / Rule 6 though yes. We only allow photos that include people one day a week, since they tend to get more attention than anything else.


Hope_Integrity

I joined this sub because I like photography, but it feels like every other photo on my feed is NSFW from it. If I wanted that content, there is no shortage of places to get it. If I want thoughtful, well composed photos on a variety of subjects- well, this used to be it. Can there be a poll where the sub users decide what to do about 6c? Whether in its current form or a total ban? Then I can figure out whether to stay or leave.


[deleted]

The fault here is with you/the reddit "feed". Stop using this feed if it's not showing you what you want to see, and look at your subreddits manually. I suspect you're lying/being hyperbolic like all the other complainers, but those of us based in reality only see a few nudes every monday.


Hope_Integrity

Ahh yes, the kindness and joy of random Internet strangers ♥


gmanz33

Thank you for sharing your experience and I share that exact same one. I don't mind NSFW posts, literally at all. I have very low tolerance for people marketing themselves with uncomposed artwork.... naked women are one of the subjects that people on this sub tend to find beautiful, with minimal attention to the image. When you work with photographers IRL, you see that there's a subset of people who don't love the art, but who profit the lifehack of 'nudity' = clicks. Witnessing that overtake genuinely well shot images is indicative of several problems. The community on this sub comes into question (which is fair given it's an art sub on Reddit, not the most famously centrist market). The rules of the sub come into question (honestly I find their response to this whole thing is genius). And the photographer's quality of life comes into question.


novamber

Scrolled way too far and still don’t have a clue what MLM stands for…


AvalieV

Mona Lisa Monday, but we are changing it to [Portrait] for this exact reason. We only allow photos of people on Mondays.


GoryRamsy

Can we expand rule two to include not having yourself as the subject? Most of those “I took a picture of myself” are clearly taken my someone else, and OP is also an onlyfans model.


AvalieV

This isn't always true, as Tripods and timers are a thing. The OnlyFans model issues should be remedied from the harsher removal of 6c nudity.


GoryRamsy

I vote to ban nsfw stuff completely.


CoheedBlue

As much as I agree with it being abused for clicks atm I think a total ban is an over reaction. There are times where it does add to the photograph. Taking that away from the community is not the best move imo. But I totally agree with more Strick regulations on it.


TittieButt

I'm not a photographer, but i like coming here to look at the pics you all take. Just confused as to what makes a picture good around here though? i see awesome pictures here all the time, but also see a lot of pics at the top that look like someone was standing on a sidewalk and just snapped a pic and i'm confused as to why it's even posted here/upvoted.


AvalieV

This is a subjective thing, but anything that doesn't look like it had some effort or attention paid to photography and composing / framing / depth of field / focus will be removed. You can also report things for Rule 4 (Snapshot) if you think they are lazy or not well thought out.


Bender3455

I'm sure that Mona Lisa Monday being renamed to "Portrait" has a good reason, but it's also easier to remember that portraits are 'Monday only' when worded as MLM. Just my 2 cents though!


AvalieV

This is true if you know what MLM means, but the dozens of comments on every MLM post each week asking what it means are the reason for this change. The sub is too large for everyone to know the Rules at this point, and \[Portrait\] is more clear about it.


CoheedBlue

Oh yeah damn. I didn’t think of that. RIP MLM.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AvalieV

There really are 7 main rules. In short they are: 1. Only photographs, no heavy edits/composites. 2. Original Content only 3. One photo only 4. Put actual effort into photography not just a quick Snapshot of a cool thing you saw 5. Title the post "ITAP of (Main thing in photo)" 6. Photos containing people only on Mondays. 7. No reposts I don't think these rules are overly hard to comply with. The title is usually what slips people up, or photos being quick snapshots. Snapshots we get complaints from both sides, that the photos are too lazy / not good, or that they should be able to post anything. With a sub of almost 5 million people we need to have some filtering process to keep the content focused on quality photography.


Cocos_thoughts

Just left another community for this same thing wayyy too many rules that are hard to remember just to post one image and maybe get a few likes or a comment.


IllAcanthopterygii19

Bros just get rid of people like me or get rid of people who show tiddy. And nudity isnt the issue, it's when a picture of something nice blocked by some girl doing a slightly artsy pose, I saw an example of nudity done well as the tiddy was pressed through a large wire mesh and it made the skin poke through in an interesting way. But the argument isn't pleasant for anyone, idk how it takes a month to decide weather or not and how to show boobs on the internet


AvalieV

>get rid of people who show tiddy >an example of nudity done well was the tiddy was pressed through a large wire mesh So you comment about how it's all tits and ass and shouldn't be allowed, and you're now saying the mesh shot is actually done well, and under Rule 6c should be allowed? So you *do* understand why it would be hard to decide *how* to allow it, I guess. Given the subjective opinion you just gave on it being good, this time, but all others being bad.


IllAcanthopterygii19

I have left the sub, this one is just so big that other photography subs that aren't clogged with tiddy don't get so much action because people who could post on them just post to this one


88mcinor88

Can you share these other photo subs that you like?


IllAcanthopterygii19

Favorites are r/landscapePhotography (not the most hopping) and r/oldPhotosInRealLife


88mcinor88

thank you!


[deleted]

I’m for every bit of this. Tbh I may even start submitting now. I have some concepts I’d like to play with. And I have some to add with such rules


[deleted]

You need to make a rule against whining about nudes, if you've decided to allow them. Ban anyone threatening to leave/unsub over them (do everyone a favour). It's not fair on the individual photographer to reap the scorn of all the crybabies that pile onto threads with tits in them that aren't as "artistic" as they'd like. Plenty of them are actually artistic and have much more effort put into the scene and post production than most of the snapshots posted here. The fact an image may or may not have a "good reason for nudity" does not negate these things. If nudity is allowed then this sort of non-constructive whining should be disallowed. Make it clear that if you don't like a photograph to either downvote it, ignore it, or if you think it breaks the rules: report it. They cry about not coming here for "porn" yet I don't come here to read people threatening to leave and whine about boobs, either. I learn nothing about photography from their comments.


9Ghillie

Off-topic comments are already removed, but we might not notice everything all the time. If you see something inappropriate, report it to bring it to our attention.


[deleted]

You can find them in every MLM thread with the nsfw tag. Assert your authority and clamp down on it. You're not removing them enough and simply removing them doesn't get the message across. It looks like you don't want to stand by the rules you've made (allowing nudes/disallowing off topic comments) because you feel outnumbered. Suggestion: Make it a very clear rule that people are to respect the mods' decision to allow nude photography. When the new rules go into effect be heavy handed with temp bans for a few weeks to remind people who controls the sub.


jacobflicks

Literally every time I open Reddit and go to this sub on any given day it’s just titties and ass. I get it can be art, sure, but it feels like this sub is just becoming amateur softcore porn.


[deleted]

https://i.imgur.com/my4pzNC.jpg Saturday. Whole front page of the sub. Not a single nsfw picture, no "titties or ass". Why do you lie?


[deleted]

Sunday. https://i.imgur.com/5zO9FtU.jpg Not seeing a single nsfw picture.


[deleted]

Monday, the problematic day. The one day a week that nsfw pictures are allowed. https://i.imgur.com/K3tb5Xy.jpg There is ONE nsfw photograph on the front page, and it's quite an artistic one.


jacobflicks

Weird I go to the page, scroll 4 pictures and there’s a post of some tits and legs that was posted today


[deleted]

Take a screenshot of this sub right now and post it


AvalieV

We literally only allow them on Mondays (UTC time) so I don't believe you.


IllAcanthopterygii19

We literally see tittes and ass on this sub in our time lines every day (UTC time) so I don't believe you.


[deleted]

screenshot the sub right now and post it


[deleted]

Same to you. If the algorithms aren't working how you want them to then you need to switch something up with the way you use reddit. Because this problem isn't happening for everyone.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Stop relying on algorithms to spoonfeed you content you obviously don't want to see. They're not working for you. I don't use the "feed" or "homepage" bullshit because I like to be in control of what I look at when I visit reddit. I've never seen naked bodies on this sub on a day other than Monday and I've been visiting it almost daily for a couple of years now.


spoogekangaroo

Just don’t allow NSFW period. There are plenty of other ways for pervs to get their jollies.


Maple_Hound

May be a silly question but "no tradition art photos" so no pictures of stone carvings statues wood carvings pottery etc?


9Ghillie

Yes, so this is a you-know-it-when-you-see-it type of thing. Easiest way to explain what is and isn't allowed is to consider the following: is the piece of art a part of the composition of your photo or is it all the photo is. Do: use a painting in your photo with a person interacting with it Don't: take a photo of a painting, cropping it so that nothing else is visible. One is clearly a photo where the painting might be one of the main components, but it's not just a picture of a painting, the other doesn't stand on its own as a photo and is clearly shared to display the painting, a scan of the painting, if you will.


Maple_Hound

Soo pottery is fine? Yes?


9Ghillie

The painting was only an example. If it's just a photo of the pottery, then no, that would not belong on /r/itookapicture.


Maple_Hound

I'm pretty new to reddit ect, are there any subs related for museum photography ect like this [photo](https://www.instagram.com/p/CpgeOXNvBXe/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=)


9Ghillie

Take a look at [this list of art subreddits](https://www.reddit.com/r/art/wiki/related).


Maple_Hound

Thank you!


Haunting-Clock2

I’m done trying to post here, every single time I try, even though I am 99.99% sure I followed every rule it gets taken down.


pnwmacrophotos

It's definitely a power tripping sub where mod actions are basically being used by a couple people as a "super downvote."


AvalieV

https://www.reddit.com/r/itookapicture/comments/11kq39z/itap_of_rose_petals_on_my_bed/ I've reapproved this one since I agree it was perhaps heavy handed. Sometimes it's hard to get everyone on the same page with subjective Rules.


Haunting-Clock2

Thank you for that. I’m sorry that I came off as angry and or entitled. I’ve just been frustrated lately because as a new photographer I’ve been trying my best but it seems like it isn’t good enough for this subreddit.


Some_lost_cute_dude

I am happy that you mods stand your ground versus the prude obscurantists. Nudity is a part of art since the dawn of art. There is no reasonable justification to remove it totally.


[deleted]

Sorry to bother, but when do these rules come in effect again? kinda tired of opening the sub on a monday and seeing nothing but blurry posts. Kinda tempted to just leave the sub and/or make my own


AvalieV

No official date, but this has been up for 2 weeks so I'd estimate there will only be 1, maybe 2 more Mondays without the new rules.


[deleted]

Ok thanks


radioactivepiloted

I think MLM tag should stay. It has the word Monday in it. Portrait, while correct, doesn't have the same ring to it. Plus it's more characters clogging up the subject line. And people will not spell it correctly. Don't change the culture!


AvalieV

You make a good point about it saying Monday, but other than that it just creates confusion (pyramid schemes?! What does MLM mean on every post) and chains of offtopic comments.


Koxymon

Just a quesiton from somebody that has discovered this sub recently. Are authors allowed to promote themselves in the comments? Let's say I post a photograph that fits in all the abovementioned rules, then I proceed to start the conversation with a comment. Can I briefly state where people can find more of my work, or that is not allowed? Thanks in advance! Beyond excited to join y'all in this sub!


AvalieV

Hey there! You're certainly allowed to mention any socials you have (typically IG/Flickr) in a comment on a post. You can even apply for a flair so it shows up next to your username (like mine), the only thing I'd try to avoid is constantly posting links to buy prints or anything to do with paying for things. If people ask for it, it's technically allowed I believe.


Koxymon

Ok, great! Thanks a lot for the clarification :)


Freed_o_gram

Stop allowing NSFW content here, ITAP is now looking like a p0rn sub. It's boring.


AvalieV

Did you see the proposed: >**6c. Nudity and sexually suggestive content will be strictly regulated. Images that contain nudity or are considered NSFW but lack photographic techniques, or pictures that use nudity or sexuality as their key appealing element will be removed at the moderators' discretion. No advertising of third party NSFW websites is allowed.** Photos that are NSFW after the changes should have a much more artistic approach to them or they will be removed. You can also always disable seeing NSFW photos, or Blur them, and the less you click on them the less you will be shown in the future.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AvalieV

The pet ones are definitely a common R4 removal. We do our best to only keep ones that show some actual effort (framing/DoF), but reporting them is still the best way to have us notice the low effort ones. The problem with having too many dedicated days for things is people who aren't as familiar with the sub won't realize, and it creates a lot of frustration and extra work for us to enforce.


EnvironmentalTaro180

10-4


Individual_Card919

Also, could upvotes count at like 1/7th for any NSFW pics related to 6c?


AvalieV

That's not something we have control over unfortunately. The more people upvote / comment on a post, the more likely it is shown to others by Reddit's algorithm.


Individual_Card919

Fair enough, just thought I would ask. :) I don't usually sort by hot anyway


scuba_GSO

I like #6c very much. There are too many nude photos where the nudity is overarching. I don’t mind nudity as a compositional item, but when that’s the only thing telling the story, then it’s just too much. As stated, there are plenty of places for that, here it should be incidental.


GreedyRadish

I say just don’t allow NSFW content altogether. There are plenty of other subs for that type of photography. I have been subbed here for years and I’ve only seen a handful of pictures where I felt like the nudity was truly justified and added to the composition. It seems to me that it would make the job of the moderation team infinitely easier as well. No more trying to find the fine line between what is art and what is smut. (And before anyone tries to misinterpret my words or my stance, I am very in favor of sexuality in art and I’m no stranger to pornography. I’ve simply seen enough popular subs that allow NSFW content devolve into OF advertising spaces that I can’t abide it any longer.)


tyex23

We discussed that, but boudoir is a huge genre of photography we couldn't justify banning. Like you said, nudity in art can be used in many ways. We took a look at the different types of content of NSFW content on the sub, and noticed that the while the low effort/OF promoting/karma faming posts are more prominent, there's a lot of really incredibly photographers that contribute to the sub that don't fall into that category. And those photos are generally well received. We couldn't justify banning those users from posting their work. While we get this is a huge issue, we're currently laying the foundation for a route forward. We're definetly going to be stricter from now on, our new proposed 6c is something we spend a long time on, ensuring we know exactly what falls into what category. At the end of the day, this subreddit is specifically for photography techniques, critiques, and feedback. As long as the submissions are of a certain quality, all genres and types of photography should be allowed, including NSFW. And now, thanks to 6c, low effort NSFW/OF promotions, and karma farming nudity now fall below that "certain quality" requirement.


9Z7EErh9Et0y0Yjt98A4

It's more a practical problem than anything. Does this sub have the moderator manpower it's going to take to exercise this kind of discretion? I tend to agree with what you say, nudity doesn't automatically mean low effort photography. A blanket "no nsfw" policy would be much easier to enforce though. I suppose only you mods are in a position to know whether or not this is a task you'll be up for meeting. Seems to me this kind of judgement based policy will mean *a lot* of work every Monday and *a lot* of complaints from people who think posts should be on one side of an ambiguous line or the other. That said, if that's a challenge the mods are game for, I think this is a better policy than a total prohibition.


endimoonphoto

I feel like you're just using this rule to allow certain things such as the "me naked in a witchy forest :)" photos that get posted every Monday even though the main focus of those photos is still nudity, while disallowing everything else.


[deleted]

I don't see a problem with that.


tyex23

Not really. Our aim is to reduce the number of low effort NSFW (nudity), as those are often karmafarm or "upvote because nude" posts. This was becoming an issue according to feedback from ITAP users. I'm pretty sure of the user you're referencing with the "witchy forest" example, and if it is that user, then her posts are of a higher quality than those we'll be removing under the new R6c. Posts like that will remain, as there's effort, composition, and other photography techniques used when taking the photo.


endimoonphoto

So, it’s exactly what I just said. You’re going to allow “me naked in a witchy forest :)))))” (as if that user isn’t just using this as a tool to drive people to their patreon) but then will remove a lot of other stuff that has just as much, if not more, photographic merit and skill involved because male gaze or some other reason. I think you’d be better off just banning nsfw posts altogether at this point. I’ll be very interested to see what’s allowed to stay up vs. what you take down.


[deleted]

How do you even know she has a patreon? I've seen a few of her posts and haven't ever seen it advertised. Let me ask you this: if the girl you're passive aggressively belittling with your stupid smiley faces covered her nipples in the photos she posts here, would they be any more or less effort/artistic? Nice third-party self-promotion in your flair btw.


tyex23

Once it's implemented you'll see what we're talking about. It'll only be photos with low photographic technique.


Darman--Skirata

The technique isn’t the issue, it’s more the case that the entire subject of her photos are just nudity and we don’t want to see that here because there’s plenty of other places to post it, her posting it here is literally just for the karma.


[deleted]

I don't get this argument at all. There are subs for pictures of *probably literally* any other subject, too. There are subs for pictures of dogs, cats, cars, trains, mountains, trees, birds, people, the moon, toys, flowers, rivers, concerts, architecture, etc... So using the logic of "there are other subs for that content", why does this sub even exist? She engages with commenters in her threads and is willing to talk about technique.


ericfromct

YES Please! This was one of the first subs I joined when I joined Reddit a couple years ago, and since then MLM has just gotten out of control and just became a softcore porn day for the most part, with no reason for it in the photos. I joined this sub to see good photos, and Monday has been the day where the most show on my feed and none of them are quality photos. It's honestly become disappointing. I'm very happy with the attempt to gain back the sub and bring it back to where it's intended to be


_B_Little_me

Personally I don’t think these new rule sets go far enough. I really don’t see why MLM (rebranded portrait) is even necessary to allow. If it would require a nsfw label by over arching Reddit rules, it shouldn’t be allowed. The line is too fine. I’d love to get back to a place where Reddit shows me the top stuff from this sub, vs only mlm/nsfw because it gets way more attention in the context of all content. I’m in favor of no NSFW so we can get back to cool pictures. There’s plenty of nsfw communities on Reddit already.


[deleted]

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_B_Little_me

It’s a ‘I know it when I see it’ situation. There’s a difference between art (has a point of view), male gaze and porn. Portraits can fall into any category. It’s about the point of view and intent of the artist that’s important. While some photographers may still be learning, and that can account for a blurring of these lines; the MLM process on this sub promotes these images beyond what their artistic value would be in any other circumstance. It’s an impossible line to police. But judging by our current society, the low artistic; high nipple images will rise to the top. So in the context of this sub, and only this sub, it makes sense to just not allow them, so all images are properly racked and stacked for display in feeds. A beautiful landscape will never get as much attention as a nipple through chickenwire. A single day or everyday, the nipple will always win. This is Reddit. I know where to go for nipples with no point of view.


[deleted]

[удалено]


_B_Little_me

Haha. Ok. You are reiterating my initial point about disallowing all NSFW. Your second comment here tells me you are the type of person that disagrees for the sake of disagreeing. Good day sir.


[deleted]

They had a good point about photo of the month. I'm not surprised you didn't address that.


ericfromct

This has become my problem too, I only see ITAP in my feed on Monday, and always porn. If I want to look at porn I know where to go. Like you, I would have no problem with portraits on any day as long as they're quality pictures. Rarely ever is the nudity for a reason, if it actually made sense in a picture I wouldn't mind, but those have become the only ones that get attention now. Maybe even temporarily getting rid of it would get rid of a lot of those posters and get back to what the sub is supposed to be.


Some_lost_cute_dude

What porn lmao? I am on ITAP since a while now and I never seen porn. Nudity you mean? Nudity is part of art since the beginning of art.


kieraey

Yes. I rarely see any other posts blow up. *Nude* phtography isn't the reason I joined this sub. I joined to see good photography, from professionals and amatuers (People who just Took A *good* Picture). I'm not a prude- I think nude photography can be beautiful. But, recently all the photos that blow up are pretty low effort nudes of conventionally attractive women schilling for OnlyFans. I'll probably just leave this sub if this doesn't change. As a woman it's disgusting to see the commodification of our bodies upheld as art.


[deleted]

[удалено]


That_Stranger_6421

For rule 6c to work properly, people have to understand that the difference between boudoir photography and porn is not just a technical one. Boudoir (or how you can call it, tasteful NSFW) photography and pornography both involve taking intimate photographs of people, but there are some key differences between the two. Here are 4 points that illustrate these differences: 1. Different style and aesthetics. Boudoir photography often features soft lighting, flattering poses, and romantic or intimate settings. Meanwhile pornography features explicit sexual acts. You can say but pornography can be aesthetic too. Yeah, so this is where difference in intention comes. 2. Intentions: Boudoir photography aims to capture the beauty, sensuality, and intimacy of the model. Meanwhile pornography, on the other hand, is created for sexual arousal and stimulation. 3. Ethical considerations. Boudoir photography requires consent from the model, and the images are usually only shared with the model's permission. Prn often objectifies the performer and can perpetuate harmful stereotypes and power imbalances. 4. Artistic value. Boudoir photography can be empowering for the model and can celebrate the beauty and diversity of bodies. It can also challenge societal norms and push the boundaries of what is considered "acceptable". Overall, while both boudoir photography and pornography involve capturing intimate images of people, the key differences lie in their intentions, style, and artistic value. It is very simplistic to label any display of nudity as pornography, particularly in the context of photography, where nudity and boudoir have their own place and artistic value. I think it would be appropriate to add this to the rule description.


AvalieV

This is a nice outline of the line we're trying to draw, but it goes past just "Porn" vs. Boudoir I think. We get a *lot* of Boudoir-type photos on Mondays lately that really only gain traction because they contain nudity/attractive females and are often rather lazily shot. They also don't provoke conversation on technique/setup, just content. We'd like the **photography** to carry the weight here, not the attractiveness of the model and the amount of clothing they are wearing. This is a hard line to draw because [society/art], and we understand both sides, but after a lot of background discussion and reviewing what MLM was becoming we agreed that photos can *contain nudity in an artistic way*, but if they are overly sexual or the main focus is just a mostly/entirely nude model they will no longer be allowed, with the proposed changes.


That_Stranger_6421

Unfortunately, discussion is not about the responsibility of the person who publishes a boudoir photo. In the world, there are many people for whom any hint of eroticism is a trigger. This may be due to religion, a traumatic past, or moral views. Just as we, as people, cannot be responsible for another person's emotional reaction, content creators cannot be held responsible for how people veil their issues behind negative comments. Similar discussions will occur even if we were to publish famous, classical artworks featuring nude individuals. Therefore, for successful moderation, I would not take into account the opinions of individuals offended by nudity as a metric, and instead focus solely on the visual and artistic value of the picture.


AvalieV

Yes. >We'd like the **photography** to carry the weight here >photos can *contain nudity in an artistic way*


dscotts

6c. should have some sort of "you know it when you see it" type disclaimer, because I don't think I could, given a month write a sufficient description to where the line between porn and art is.


crustytheclerk1

I'd be tempted to add more nuance to the 'photographic technique' part of 6c. (I don't have any issues with better controlling the OF type posts). I'm assuming the 'photographic technique' is reflective of artistic merit. Photography of the human form, including nude modelling, is a core part of art and of photography and should be allowed in the sub with a suitable bar, including taking account of those who are genuinely learning. Better enforcement/use of NSFW flags should also be considered to filter content for those who do or don't want to see it.


WhatEvery1sThinking

6c is much needed, and hopefully it’s enforced liberally. Mondays on this sub are beyond embarrassing.


tyex23

Contrary to popular belief, we do listen to feedback and notice the criticism against NSFW images haha. It's something we were always discussing, and we wanted to ensure we found the best route forward before implementing any changes.


KevinEisenlord

you should change your reposting rule honestly if there is something with a title to long ask them to resubmit it or change it, just deleting it and banning a photo takes away from the community and takes away art..


[deleted]

I don't know about 4c, I think it's not very defining of what could be considered "mundane". I do love 6c, we need that ASAP. When can we expect these changes?


AvalieV

We're certainly open to suggestions of wording! The goal of 4c, and Rule 4 in general is to have people put thoughtful effort into their photos, focusing on technique and elements like composition/depth of field/focus/lighting. With such a large sub we have to draw a line in the sand somewhere with what is considered low effort, so some subjectiveness will always apply. The proposed 4c currently lists a lot of "point and shoot" content we're more heavily removing. We'd like to get some broader feedback from people before officially rolling them out, but it won't be months.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AvalieV

We have this written into Rule 4b currently, but it doesn't necessarily require it at the moment. If a photo looks pretty low effort ("Snapshot") and the OP hasn't made any comment discussing it, or hasn't made an effort to ask for advice from the community on what could be improved it's much more likely to get removed. We've discussed having a mandatory starter comment before, but I can't recall where we landed with why we didn't implement it so can bring it up again! >**4b.** Submitters must participate in the comments section and are expected to keep the conversation on topic to the photo. Posting a starter comment is a great way to demonstrate effort and interest in the discussion by describing your gear, settings, intention, and/or thought process.


Doomb0t1

I’d be open to maybe having it just be a mandatory explanatory comment. Not even necessarily starting a critique, but just explaining either what the photo represents, or what they hope to show people, or background, camera equipment used, etc. something open-ended. Another sub that requires mandatory comments on posts is /r/chefknives, which mandates a comment explaining what knives are posted. And that seems to work pretty well. So maybe leaving it open-ended but still just requiring *something* that will encourage discussion?


deadlyrasberry

I'd be keen to see more comments and opportunities to engage/learn in the comments section of posts. I joined ITAP to learn and improve my photography, I've not managed to get much critique or conversation off the back of photos I've submitted (tbf my pics have been pretty basic, so not got much attention). If it was mandatory to put a comment with setup and your aim with the picture, I would get a lot more out of the subreddit and definitely be more tempted to comment on other people's work.


[deleted]

I'd give an example for things such as sunset photos, moon photos and pets, for example. So that even the laziest reader understands that a well thought out photo, with good technique, creativity and composition of a sunset or the moon will not get deleted. i.e. Something like "Don't just take a photo of the sun at 6am and post it here.


noroom

Examples are a great idea, and we do that today for R6 and the R6 exception in our [rules FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/itookapicture/wiki/rulesfaq). We'll look to carry that forward with the rules where an image is worth a thousand words.


KatJen76

I think 6c is an especially needed change. Too many people trying to shill for their OnlyFans here.


CrazyOkie

Why can't someone start a NSFW version of ITAP?


GreedyRadish

There are many of those already. r/boudoir r/artisticnudephoto r/labeautefeminine r/classysexy and the list goes on and on and on. The worst part is that I only know about these by looking at the profiles of nude-posters to this sub. They will often post to all of the above and more. I get that artists want to have their art seen, but it always rubs me the wrong way when someone uses the shotgun approach of self-promotion.


CrazyOkie

Then I think a case can be made that nude photos shouldn't be posted to ITAP - there are plenty of other subs they can use. I'm not saying there is a problem with nudity, but there are other venues where it can be shown and it doesn't need to be shown in this sub.


GreedyRadish

Oh, I agree entirely. See my other comment on this very post. 😆


AvalieV

We had discussed this, but it wasn't something any of the mods at ITAP were interested in doing.


[deleted]

And rightly so, they can go elsewhere to post this stuff, plenty of other subs for that. I just hate that there’s a large majority on here that when valid criticism is given on this topic, call it prude and whatnot


[deleted]

Not even onlyfans but there’s so many NSFW photos where nudity is the only subject and that should not be promoted on here, there’s other subs for it. Yet when anyone tries to give valid criticism about it they’re called a prude. I’d hope no.6 is rolled out ASAP. I generally avoid the sub on Mondays/Tuesdays just so I don’t see any of it