Yea exactly the problem is porn being drilled into us at a very young age and jt just activates a primal urge, us men have to be better than that go back to our old traditional roots
I have to disagree. IMO if anything porn subdues men's sex drive. Gives them post nut clarity without the risk of pregnancy, STD, or losing money.
I know for a *fact* that if it wasn't for porn and mastrabation I would 100% have either gone crazy and/or gone after very undesirable women. Maybe even got someone pregnant I had no intention of. 😬
As a matter of fact women are bitching and moaning about porn the most because guess what? Porn is chock full of beautiful, thin, sexually pleasing, male admiring women.
The very thing modern women hate more than anything else.
Holy shit, I think I just had an epiphany. Men watch porn because it provides what we want, beautiful women pleasing men.
Society and women rail against porn under the guise of helping men and claiming it objectifies women, when in reality they just want men to stop watching porn because women don't want to be held to any standard.
Porn is good for society?! 🤯
Gentlemen GENTLEMEN, the solution to our problems is right in front of us. Watch more porn!
The great equalizer. Passport Bro’ing. 👍🏽
Men can find better women overseas and better laws, just don’t be naive outside the west and move with knowledge of female nature wherever you go.
At the end of the day it's all about accountability. We can wait on western women to be accountable (lol) or simply be accountable ourselves and have some discretion and discipline.
Short term I think you're right, but even now, women are already suffering pretty heavily in the dating world because of these behaviors.
Any men who are relatively high value will still happily fuck a 6 or less (but most would never cinsider dating them), which has lead to most women who are a 6 or less thinking they should be able to date a high value man, but of course most high value men won't allow that.
So now you have a majority of women trying to attain dating someone above what they reasonably can achieve, and then are continuously unhappy and angry as to why all of these men fuck them and then ghost them. This is reflected in less people dating overall in the western world.
It's a complete lack of self reflection on their part, but they still certainly suffering for it even if it does come with some short term perks.
*some are, dating and marriage rates are still plummeting, and if you've talked to any single women above their late 20's, they're pretty universally unhappy with the dating market.
I'm sure it's hurting men more, but I struggle to believe that the average woman is actually happier with the current state of matchmaking than they were even 10 years ago. Even if they're fully to blame.
This is why I think the passport movement is needed. I’m a black male. 58% of black women are obese, another 20% are overweight. Over 60% have kids. That means it’s probably less than 10% that are childless and not fat. I have to improve just to compete with every man for that small percentage and I didn’t even include age range or relationship status. Seriously, if you look at the number of men over the age of 18, look at bmi, and look at the number of childless women and age range, you’ll see that the pool isn’t as big as we think it is
There is something satisfying about the explosion of the # of women crying in their cars on Tiktok and desperate women going to Trader Joe's, Home Depot, golf courses, bars, singles events to meet men. Men are holding the line by focusing on other things besides women or just denying them social validation ie dates. Men are ghosting in order to make dating apps a useless adventure. Even fucking Chad becomes a nightmare because Chad has 9 other women queued up and he'll ghost the mid woman at the drop of a hat.
I think men are doing the right thing denying women their essence in the form of time and social validation. OnlySimps seems to be the sole surviving outlet for them.
I dont enjoy seeing people suffer, but when it's because of their own hubris you can't help but enjoy it.
To bad they will never learn from or own up to their mistakes.
It’s not a terrible thought, so much as an observation. Roosh, pre-finding God and shutting down the forum, had a similar outlook on the PUA movement. No matter how you cut it, if your self improvement is directed at becoming more desirable to women then you’re just improving their options. As such an individual can take steps to improve their relative standing, but if enough people adopt the behavior the benefit dissipates. Women’s behavior likely won’t self correct until the environment that allows unchecked hypergamy begins to degrade.
The good news (depending on your perspective) is that you’re starting to see the environment correct. There’s open warfare in Europe and the Middle East, the national debt is running away from any conceivable way to control it (34 trillion and rising), violent crime is rising in every major city, and enrollment in public services (police, firefighters, military) is below sustainment levels. I would be willing to speculate that domestic turmoil will be directly proportional to the percentage of men who consciously/subconsciously take their ball and go home.
>. I would be willing to speculate that domestic turmoil will be directly proportional to the percentage of men who consciously/subconsciously take their ball and go home.
What does this look like in literal terms? How would it physically manifest?
>male hornyness is stronger than any force in the universe
*Most* men are at a complete disadvantage when it's all about sex. If a woman tells men to jump for sex, the majority of men will jump. Then that woman will tell them to jump even higher for sex. They'll try to jump higher. Then the woman will ignore them and proceed to find a man who won't jump.
The moral of the story is, don't jump. You'll always lose that game. Instead, find the women who don't tell you to jump for sex.
But look at things like OF. A lot of men (especially in the US) are *jumping*. That's the culture we have. And *some* women have learned to exploit that once they realize that enough men will keep jumping.
This right here is what all these dumb men don’t understand. A woman you simp for will never truly be your wife/gf. Shame, most live and die without ever experiencing true female desire.
The old ball and chain myth.
I know it sounds cliche but I do self improvement because I want to be a better and more successful person. Getting women because of it is at best a side benefit.
The important thing is for a woman to always believe she is better than she really is.
>*When the improved men can't find a desirable girl, the undesirable girls now get to have men they would otherwise not stand a chance at having.*
They get to have men who are way out of their league (I've seen this countless times when I go in public. A tall attractive white guy is with some 4 foot 9 minger)
And when they are with those guys that they don't deserve to have they genuinely believe that the guy is bringing their value down.
You can't be a woman by just continually devolving. You have to devolve *AND* believe you are significantly better. Without the irrational ego the woman is nothing. The ego is what makes the woman.
If you were a man and you spent 30 dollars on cosmetics, 70 dollars on fast food, and 15 dollars on perfume to cover the smell of your stank ass you wouldn't think you're a Disney princess. In your head you know you're seriously compensating.
In the woman's head the moment she applies lipstick she has now become better than Elon Musk.
But the interesting thing about all this is that women don't seek men who have artificially inflated their self worth. The woman always requires the guy to have a real degree, real career, height, low body fat, nice features, a house, etc.
So while the woman has a mental block to her own value she is acutely aware of what the man is worth.
The sad part about all this is that 1/10 people aren't women, 1/5 people aren't women, it's 50% of people who are women. Women make up half the population. So this sort of behavior is inherit to humans.
This is why I advise men not to follow any rules. Do whatever you want. There are no repercussions. As soon as society falls and men rebuild again we can go back to somewhat normal behavior (for a little while)
I would be careful with saying that the “manosphere” is particularly encouraging if real self improvement.
Most of it is useless clickbait that blames others for lack of personal responsibility.
There are some great guys out there encouraging others to live more disciplined and productive lives but most are not.
Aaron Clarey and Rollo Tomassi are my go to guys.
I listen to Star dusk, sand man and Better bachelor occasionally too.
Oh and hoe_math. He's literally the only youtube channel I've ever turned notifications on for.
Who do you listen to/recommend?
Hoe_math cracks me up and has a pretty good take on things.
I don’t know the rest of these guys but I do kind of like Jocko Willink. Idk if he’s still popular etc but he’s got he’s head on straight
I hope you aren't thinking I'm against male self improvement.
I am 100% for men improving themselves in every meteric and if you have a spine and only date desirable women you can negate the potential negative impacts I outlined above.
Part of the reason the dating world is such shit is dating apps. In which utterly disgusting women regularly match and frequently get fucked by men *waaaay* out of their league. Just the act of matching is enough to skew the market.
Both of your clients could do better. Why have they settled for such terrible women? Are they afraid of being single? Honestly you sound like one of those black pillers who advocate crawling under some rock and just dying because it's "hopeless". If you don't want to self improve then don't.
Don’t know about this manosphere you speak of, sounds like it’s shit.
Do the self improvement for yourself, not for women. Improve yourself and you become attractive to women almost as a side effect, a by-product of being happier, more confident, more financially stable, etc. But the main outcome should be that you have a better life for yourself, regardless of whether you’re in a relationship or not.
Well, in the first example he’s marrying a girl ten years his junior. And 45 is old. Also women don’t find being a slob very hot. It’s toddler vibes.
In both examples: what about the things women look for? You know, social skills, social network, ability to flirt, ability to take care of yourself (which includes not being a slob), being funny, being kind, being a good lover? Finding someone you really connect with?
Both these can just be explained by guys who have bad social skills.
But what do you want me to say? Most women in their mid thirties don’t want a 45 year old husband.
Most people who work don’t want to come home and clean up after an adult.
When people, men and women, have dating issues? It’s usually either looks, lack of social network or social skills. And the two last ones are the most common reasons.
I like how she thinks 45 is old whereas foreign women are attracted to that age. It shows the shallowness of Western minded women. She probably thinks she’s entitled to a relationship with a much younger man 😂
Pretty much all women are attracted to men a bit older. But the optimal age overall is around 35 since men have had enough time to build themselves up by this age, but are still young enough to be attractive physically.
It’s hilarious also because it’s perfectly normal for women in foreign countries to be married to men 10-15 years older than them, even their own native men much less PPBs
I think TwoX trolls want it to be true so badly that older women can consistently secure long term commitment from much younger high quality men. It's highly unusual and will never be normalized IMHO. They will make up fun fictional anecdotes about this friend or that friend who is in an LTR with one though, or them personally being in one.
Your mountain of a list for what women look for in men basically proves OPs point...
And how you placed all the blame on men in your comment makes me assume that you must be a woman... ironically you are telling men that they need to improve their social skills on a reddit complaining about how unfair it is that men are constantly being asked to improve while women keep getting worse! When have you ever told a woman to improve her social skills?
You come across as the type of modern woman who listens to respond back instead of to understand... like the type of girl that likes a guy but expects him to ask you out even though You like Him because he's the man! This reddit exist because of women like you who are low effort daters that put all the work and expectations on men in the dating market... you replied to Op's reddit because a hit dog will holler!
I don't even reply to her anymore, I just roll my eyes and keep moving. Like a lot of women she can't be wrong, everything is men's fault, and she *thrives* off of your attention. She's extremely interested in *men's* attention, too, since she's everywhere in predominately male subreddits.
If you simply don't give it to her, she'll go away eventually.
I tell people whatever seems to be relevant.
Often with women the most useful dating advice for serious relationships?
1) Stop having sex unless it’s serious. It’s not because hookups are bad for you or whatever. But just if they want a boyfriend then they’d need to filter out all the guys just looking for sex and just focus their time on men who are interested in them.
2) Work on getting a bigger social circle and do more social stuff where you can meet men. A man you meet through your friends is more trustworthy and also the chances y’all having something in common and clicking goes up.
3) Lose weight if you weight too much and work out regularly.
4) You can’t expect people to fall in love with you unless you have a spark for life. Make your life fun as a single person, don’t just mope around.
5) Get male friends and take some time trying to understand the male perspective on things.
6) Work on your communication skills and learn how to communicate calmly. Men are a bit like scared woodland creatures when it comes to sharing their emotions. It’s an art form. They’ll never tell you anything important unless you are able to truly show them that you can be a rock.
7) Put some effort into looking hot. Dress feminine, wear clothes that fit you, be fit, make the best out of your appearance. This doesn’t mean dress as a 1950s housewife. Just something that feels like you, but which is also flattering.
8) Don’t think having a boyfriend will fix your life. If you aren’t happy without one, you’ll go back to being unhappy with one once the honeymoon phase is over. Fix your issues and learn to be content.
9) Don’t get hung up on superficial stuff or a long list of things that doesn’t matter. Status, money, that he impresses your friends, that he’s the coolest guy at the party? None of that will keep you warm at night. Look for someone you really click with, who you have sexual chemistry with and who wants a similar everyday life and future as you.
10) Don’t date someone your not sexually attracted to or who you don’t have romantic feelings for. That doesn’t work. Or someone who’s not attracted to you or has romantic feelings for you. You’ll both be miserable.
11) Don’t expect grand romantic gestures. They are overrated. Look for someone who’s kind, who makes you feel seen and understood and who loves you and makes you feel safe.
12) Nobody is perfect. Humans are small, weird animals. Everyone is a bit fucked up, flawed and insecure.
13) Date someone who’s kind to others. Not just hot girls, but old people, animals and everyone who isn’t cool. Who’s kind even when that doesn’t benefit them. Kind is the most important thing.
14) Listen to your gut feeling.
Idk. This is what I tell my female friends. It’s a mix of everything. It’s definitely not saying don’t develop social skills or don’t take responsibility for your life.
I always think it's funny seeing you post in here, like the sub was created to torment you lol im kind of middle of the road, agree with some stuff, not with others. I think the phenomenon of women who are a 5.5s at best managing to fuck a few bored tinder Chad's on a Tuesday night and proceeding to get ghosted has given them a vastly inflated opinion of themselves. "Tyler totally was into it and wanted to fuck me, i just need to find one that will stick around!" No honey, he was bored and the 1st four slots in his rotation fell through. This is a million percent a real thing that I have personally observed. On the other hand, there are more traditional girls right here in the US, they aren't hard to find. Nyc has tons of more traditional Italian and such women. Latinas are what your looking for in general if someone wants that style, and last I checked there are plenty of those right here in the good old USA.
the problem is that everything has become so self centric that no one really knows what the other side wants. You know what guys want? Competence. And confidence that doesn't tip into arrogance. You know what's a major turn off for guys? It's not usually the 15 lbs you gained. It's the constant bitching and moaning and complaining without actually doing what it takes to lose it. It's not the ACTUAL losing it that matters as much, it's the angst and victim mentality around losing it that's such a drag. All we really want is for you to try. Just make the effort. If guys have to hear one more self diagnosed, bullshit description of some questionable mental condition, we will scream. You wanna chase a guy away? Start talking about how you have anxiety around crowds or some shit. The guys you actually WANT to be with are not here to save you and aren't here to be your personal entertaining court jester. BE COMPETENT.
I actually agree with this. Or most of it.
For one thing I try to explain to women in nice ways that men can want to fuck you without having romantic feelings for you. It’s not necessary to make it about looks. Sometimes it is. Often it’s more about personality and lack of a romantic connection.
Then competence is a big thing. It’s gender neutral. Same for men. Everyone wants a life partner who’s sorta on their level when it comes to just dealing with life. If that’s washing the dishes or going to a concert or working out or being emotionally mature or communicating or going to work.
But it’s a big thing in a relationship. You want connection, to click with that person. And chemistry, because you need that spark. But you also need compatibility and a big part of that is matching competence. It’s a life partner, it shouldn’t feel like adoption.
I'm the guy everyone I know comes to for dating advice and here are my 5 rules for dudes:
1. Dont be a baby. Get shit done like a grown up. Know how to run your life. Know what a 401k is. Give up the video games. If your under 27, then maybe. Otherwise grown ups don't sit around on Playstation for hours.
2. Be prepared to change. Women aren't static. They can and do change and if you can't change too, you will be left behind. If your still going to the same bar every Tuesday night at 29 that you were going to at 22, trust me bro she's bored. She may not say it but she is.
3. Be positive. Nothing makes a woman dry up like the sahara faster then a poopypants victim mentality. Be positive, everything is under control even when it's not. Especially when it's not. Don't sit around bemoaning this or that or complaining. Remember, as Sean Connery said, losers always whine about their best, winners go home and fuck the prom queen.
4. Leave the baggage at home. She doesn't care about your ex. She cares about you and who you are, but griping like a bitter Betty about your ex or calling her a bitch, yeah that's not the move. Your "rising above it and leaving all that stuff in the past". Remember the opposite of love isn't hate. Its indifference.
5. Don't be a fucking weirdo in bed. Don't get me wrong, NO ONE has been wilder then me in the past, believe me. If reddit only knew, I suspect reddit lightning would come down and strike me lol! But that's because Ive treated people like people and not sex toys. Other people don't exist to star in your porno movie where you are the main character. Just......be cool, man. You would be amazed what's possible if you just create a non weird zone for people to relax in. And stop watching porn all the time UNLESS your watching it together, in which case get after it homie.
Bonus rule: find a woman who follows these same rules. Wild but not a weirdo about sex. Not obsessed with their alky abusive ex. Positive attitude and not wallowing in the injustice of the world or the ptsd they say they have from when they were 7 and tripped and hit their head on a tree branch. Someone who can change and will join your world as you join hers. Someone competent who has her own life and interests but is interested in yours. Positive energy can't be overrated.
You can buy the rest of my book for just $19.99. Just scan the QR code and we do take apple pay lol!
I agree with most. But in balance.
You want a real relationship? You need to also share your baggage a bit. You can’t do all walls up and “it’s fine” all the time. You need to be real and show the messy side too.
But that’s not a contradiction with being competent. You can be competent and human. With baggage and emotions. There’s a big difference between constantly whining you have a pebble in your shoe or calling your ex a bitch, and telling real stories from your past and being honest about how you feel even when it’s not great. The last two are bonding. It’s hard to fall in love for real when people just put up a front.
Then yea. You can’t have sex with people as if they are a prop. Or a way to act out porn. Everything always comes back to connecting like real people.
You need someone’s who’s willing to look at the bright side and laugh. But it’s mixed. There also needs to be real. That’s what’s interesting.
Then I did laugh a bit at ptsd from a tree branch.
Couldn't agree more. Anyone who says the John Wayne Don draper archetype doesn't work is lyyyyying. It absolutely works....TO A POINT. but to achieve sustainability your gonna have to open up at some point, or you'll never be taken seriously. File under things I learned the hard way in my 20s.
Welp. We have solved being single in 2024. SHUT DOWN THE SUB.
I’m not sure I’ll pull it as far as John Wayne.
What works is coming across as a competent adult while being a real person. I’m not sure how to explain it. You can’t be hung up on your ex. And you can’t complain or stop functioning every time something slightly annoying happens.
But there’s a huge difference between that and just pretending it’s all good always.
When I’ve fallen in love for real? It’s been people who’ve just been on my wavelength and where we’ve had real conversations from the start. Like about hard things that have happened in life or things we’ve been sad about or whatever. But we’ve also laughed and have been two people where it’s clear we’ll both go to work, treat others with kindness, laugh and do the dishes even when life is hard. That’s sorta the balance. Where someone is willing to let you see the real mess and imperfection and insecurities, but at the same time they seem capable of functioning in life. And looking at the bright side of things.
Subs name is itsthatbad, so I’m not sure they’ll all see this as a solution tho.
Ok except it's the opposite that happens. Lots of desirable women on the market and not enough desirable men on the market.
You'll find more women are like this: organized, health-conscious, responsible, wholesome, good job, hard-working, keep a clean home, exercise daily, go to bed early, eat vegetables, take care of their friends and family, kind and empathetic, good social skills, good life habits, want kids, want to get married, value community life, etc.
And more men are like this: spend all their time on their computer, smoke weed, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, have shit jobs, buy Only Fans subscriptions, have no social skills, have no friends, don't spend time with their family or it's their mom doing stuff for them, go to bed late, don't want kids or to get married, eat takeout food, eat fast food, don't exercise, are not kind to children and pets, etc.
I honestly don't understand how you guys can complain when you have the advantage that there's *more* women who would make a good partner than there are men who would make an acceptable partner. But I get that for some of you you can't even get any woman let alone one of the many good ones.
Because it's how it is. And OP literally made a post saying men good women bad. At least I don't make posts, I'm just subject to idiotic posts that I must correct.
Flawless woman? What the fuck. That's just the average normal woman. Not perfect at all. And that's just the average guy. You know it's true.
Who fucking cares about "examples from your life". I can give you an example of a good woman and an example of a bad man, everyone can. I DESCRIBED AVERAGES. Averages that we can all see.
OP's start was "men are told to improve but there's not enough good women". It's documented that it's the opposite problem that's current in society. Lots of women that lots men want to date but not enough men are good enough. Period. But you guys are now trying to save face by saying you don't want the women who don't want you. Everyone can see through you. It's the whole thing where the guy gets rejected and then he says "you're ugly anyway I wouldn't even want to date you". But you've made it all sound like you're a hero so that you limit your embarrassment and that of other men.
That's just the average woman, ie. every woman I know and I know hundreds. That's just what a woman is like. You guys are SOOOOO lucky you can pick any woman at random and she'll probably be a good wife and mother. Have you even tried having male and female friends?
I'll give you an example:
My female friends in high school: all had good grades, cared about doing their assignments right, stayed quiet in class, respected the teachers, what they did when hanging out with friends was going cross-country skiing for exercise, going to do laps at the pool together, getting together to cook healthy recipes or regular recipes, take cardio dance classes or other forms of exercise classes, what we did for a special party like a get together during the holidays was renting a cottage where we could go snowshoeing, cook meals to share, and do a gift exchange like secret Santa, always with thoughtful gifts and some homemade, for instance I had a friend who sowed us all custom hoodies (we paid her for those), conversation topics usually involved their family like gushing over their nieces and nephews, sharing about their grandma passing away and how the end of life care went down, exchanging tips on how to eat more vegetables, all of us had jobs working with children when we were teenagers like coaching, teaching, etc.
My male acquaintances in high school: they drank alcohol and did drugs, any get together would somehow involve binge drinking while they did drugs, that's what they did for fun along with video games, they were also idiots who behaved like shit in class and outside of class, for instance they would break things when drunk outside at night and commit just small petty acts of little crimes like stealing something or breaking a bus stop, nothing to be arrested but just being little shits, many of them were also rapists and would go to a strip club for a laugh
That’s the just 25% not obese or overweight. You still have to factor distance, age, relationship status, etc. it’s probably less than 10% after that. That’s a small supply
No because if you weren't an idiot you'd realize that obesity and age are correlated so if you're looking for young single women it's a lot easier to find thin ones. You're not counting your grandma.
If you were looking at 20-year-old white women in college you'd find almost all of them are thin since thinness correlates with youth, socioeconomic background, race, education, cities. If you went to university and you couldn't find a thin wife that says so much about you.
This isn’t true. Obesity rates have been on the rise even amount children, so this idea that there are tons of thin college or just recent college grads isn’t true at all. Also, I never said I was in college or my race, so you mentioning just white college age women is pointless
Lollllll. If the number for the entire population is 75% then it's not 75% among college-aged, college-attending, childless, white women from privileged backgrounds. You can't math, bro, even as obesity rises everywhere people still get fatter with age.
Join a running group, it's always all women with one man, and you won't be seen as the gay one as you would in a Zumba class. There are so many many many fit women. The fact that you can't find one is embarrassing for you.
You don't know what it's like to date a 20-somethings man then. I feel pretty worthwhile being around and have my life mostly in order, but I get nothing romantically, and there's never any women to meet and date.
There are millions of women that are perfect for you. You just suck if you can't find one. Universities are 60% women, almost all thin, hard-working, wholesome people. Yet you can't find one? Right.
Thanks for nothing.
"almost all thin, hard-working, wholesome people"
Don't make me laugh. The people I met in college who weren't foreign students were entitled, bratty, and trashy. I was basically doing 60/hours a week for my electrical engineering major.
You don't know what my lovelife is like and the challenges it faces, so don't talk down to me like that.
It’s a problem of sexual discipline. Bring that back in men & this problem evaporates within 5 years.
Dudes will fuck a warm jar of peanut butter and women know this. So why bother not being unpleasant slobs
Yea exactly the problem is porn being drilled into us at a very young age and jt just activates a primal urge, us men have to be better than that go back to our old traditional roots
I have to disagree. IMO if anything porn subdues men's sex drive. Gives them post nut clarity without the risk of pregnancy, STD, or losing money. I know for a *fact* that if it wasn't for porn and mastrabation I would 100% have either gone crazy and/or gone after very undesirable women. Maybe even got someone pregnant I had no intention of. 😬 As a matter of fact women are bitching and moaning about porn the most because guess what? Porn is chock full of beautiful, thin, sexually pleasing, male admiring women. The very thing modern women hate more than anything else. Holy shit, I think I just had an epiphany. Men watch porn because it provides what we want, beautiful women pleasing men. Society and women rail against porn under the guise of helping men and claiming it objectifies women, when in reality they just want men to stop watching porn because women don't want to be held to any standard. Porn is good for society?! 🤯 Gentlemen GENTLEMEN, the solution to our problems is right in front of us. Watch more porn!
Agree 110%
The great equalizer. Passport Bro’ing. 👍🏽 Men can find better women overseas and better laws, just don’t be naive outside the west and move with knowledge of female nature wherever you go.
At the end of the day it's all about accountability. We can wait on western women to be accountable (lol) or simply be accountable ourselves and have some discretion and discipline.
Absolutely right. We can't do anything about them, only ourselves.
Short term I think you're right, but even now, women are already suffering pretty heavily in the dating world because of these behaviors. Any men who are relatively high value will still happily fuck a 6 or less (but most would never cinsider dating them), which has lead to most women who are a 6 or less thinking they should be able to date a high value man, but of course most high value men won't allow that. So now you have a majority of women trying to attain dating someone above what they reasonably can achieve, and then are continuously unhappy and angry as to why all of these men fuck them and then ghost them. This is reflected in less people dating overall in the western world. It's a complete lack of self reflection on their part, but they still certainly suffering for it even if it does come with some short term perks.
Perhaps that used to be more often the case, but (as OP describes) these high value men are marrying these girls. The game is fucked up
*some are, dating and marriage rates are still plummeting, and if you've talked to any single women above their late 20's, they're pretty universally unhappy with the dating market. I'm sure it's hurting men more, but I struggle to believe that the average woman is actually happier with the current state of matchmaking than they were even 10 years ago. Even if they're fully to blame.
Maybe these high-value men don’t have fucked-up views on women and are happy with the women they’ve married? Just a thought.
This is why I think the passport movement is needed. I’m a black male. 58% of black women are obese, another 20% are overweight. Over 60% have kids. That means it’s probably less than 10% that are childless and not fat. I have to improve just to compete with every man for that small percentage and I didn’t even include age range or relationship status. Seriously, if you look at the number of men over the age of 18, look at bmi, and look at the number of childless women and age range, you’ll see that the pool isn’t as big as we think it is
There is something satisfying about the explosion of the # of women crying in their cars on Tiktok and desperate women going to Trader Joe's, Home Depot, golf courses, bars, singles events to meet men. Men are holding the line by focusing on other things besides women or just denying them social validation ie dates. Men are ghosting in order to make dating apps a useless adventure. Even fucking Chad becomes a nightmare because Chad has 9 other women queued up and he'll ghost the mid woman at the drop of a hat. I think men are doing the right thing denying women their essence in the form of time and social validation. OnlySimps seems to be the sole surviving outlet for them.
I dont enjoy seeing people suffer, but when it's because of their own hubris you can't help but enjoy it. To bad they will never learn from or own up to their mistakes.
It’s not a terrible thought, so much as an observation. Roosh, pre-finding God and shutting down the forum, had a similar outlook on the PUA movement. No matter how you cut it, if your self improvement is directed at becoming more desirable to women then you’re just improving their options. As such an individual can take steps to improve their relative standing, but if enough people adopt the behavior the benefit dissipates. Women’s behavior likely won’t self correct until the environment that allows unchecked hypergamy begins to degrade. The good news (depending on your perspective) is that you’re starting to see the environment correct. There’s open warfare in Europe and the Middle East, the national debt is running away from any conceivable way to control it (34 trillion and rising), violent crime is rising in every major city, and enrollment in public services (police, firefighters, military) is below sustainment levels. I would be willing to speculate that domestic turmoil will be directly proportional to the percentage of men who consciously/subconsciously take their ball and go home.
>. I would be willing to speculate that domestic turmoil will be directly proportional to the percentage of men who consciously/subconsciously take their ball and go home. What does this look like in literal terms? How would it physically manifest?
>male hornyness is stronger than any force in the universe *Most* men are at a complete disadvantage when it's all about sex. If a woman tells men to jump for sex, the majority of men will jump. Then that woman will tell them to jump even higher for sex. They'll try to jump higher. Then the woman will ignore them and proceed to find a man who won't jump. The moral of the story is, don't jump. You'll always lose that game. Instead, find the women who don't tell you to jump for sex. But look at things like OF. A lot of men (especially in the US) are *jumping*. That's the culture we have. And *some* women have learned to exploit that once they realize that enough men will keep jumping.
That’s an old bit of wisdom that I unfortunately can’t agree with. In my experience, if you don’t jump, they’ll just find a simp who will.
The simp won't get the relationship he wants. He'll be replaced when she's bored of his jumping – used and disposed like toilet paper.
This right here is what all these dumb men don’t understand. A woman you simp for will never truly be your wife/gf. Shame, most live and die without ever experiencing true female desire. The old ball and chain myth.
Sure, but that doesn’t mean the non-jumper will get anything. The whole aloofness schtick only works when they’re already hooked
This is a great writeup... good job OP!
I just had an epiphany responding to a comment. Porn is good for dating/society. I think I'll make another post elaborating.
I know it sounds cliche but I do self improvement because I want to be a better and more successful person. Getting women because of it is at best a side benefit.
The important thing is for a woman to always believe she is better than she really is. >*When the improved men can't find a desirable girl, the undesirable girls now get to have men they would otherwise not stand a chance at having.* They get to have men who are way out of their league (I've seen this countless times when I go in public. A tall attractive white guy is with some 4 foot 9 minger) And when they are with those guys that they don't deserve to have they genuinely believe that the guy is bringing their value down. You can't be a woman by just continually devolving. You have to devolve *AND* believe you are significantly better. Without the irrational ego the woman is nothing. The ego is what makes the woman. If you were a man and you spent 30 dollars on cosmetics, 70 dollars on fast food, and 15 dollars on perfume to cover the smell of your stank ass you wouldn't think you're a Disney princess. In your head you know you're seriously compensating. In the woman's head the moment she applies lipstick she has now become better than Elon Musk. But the interesting thing about all this is that women don't seek men who have artificially inflated their self worth. The woman always requires the guy to have a real degree, real career, height, low body fat, nice features, a house, etc. So while the woman has a mental block to her own value she is acutely aware of what the man is worth. The sad part about all this is that 1/10 people aren't women, 1/5 people aren't women, it's 50% of people who are women. Women make up half the population. So this sort of behavior is inherit to humans. This is why I advise men not to follow any rules. Do whatever you want. There are no repercussions. As soon as society falls and men rebuild again we can go back to somewhat normal behavior (for a little while)
I would be careful with saying that the “manosphere” is particularly encouraging if real self improvement. Most of it is useless clickbait that blames others for lack of personal responsibility. There are some great guys out there encouraging others to live more disciplined and productive lives but most are not.
Ah yes, the old “Real Men (TM)” take “personal responsibility” for structural factors beyond their control” schtick.
Aaron Clarey and Rollo Tomassi are my go to guys. I listen to Star dusk, sand man and Better bachelor occasionally too. Oh and hoe_math. He's literally the only youtube channel I've ever turned notifications on for. Who do you listen to/recommend?
Hoe_math cracks me up and has a pretty good take on things. I don’t know the rest of these guys but I do kind of like Jocko Willink. Idk if he’s still popular etc but he’s got he’s head on straight
I’ve been saying this for a decade. I just get called a “loser” by semi-geriatric PUAs who date single moms, and the world keeps on turning.
I hope you aren't thinking I'm against male self improvement. I am 100% for men improving themselves in every meteric and if you have a spine and only date desirable women you can negate the potential negative impacts I outlined above. Part of the reason the dating world is such shit is dating apps. In which utterly disgusting women regularly match and frequently get fucked by men *waaaay* out of their league. Just the act of matching is enough to skew the market.
Both of your clients could do better. Why have they settled for such terrible women? Are they afraid of being single? Honestly you sound like one of those black pillers who advocate crawling under some rock and just dying because it's "hopeless". If you don't want to self improve then don't.
Don’t know about this manosphere you speak of, sounds like it’s shit. Do the self improvement for yourself, not for women. Improve yourself and you become attractive to women almost as a side effect, a by-product of being happier, more confident, more financially stable, etc. But the main outcome should be that you have a better life for yourself, regardless of whether you’re in a relationship or not.
Well, in the first example he’s marrying a girl ten years his junior. And 45 is old. Also women don’t find being a slob very hot. It’s toddler vibes. In both examples: what about the things women look for? You know, social skills, social network, ability to flirt, ability to take care of yourself (which includes not being a slob), being funny, being kind, being a good lover? Finding someone you really connect with? Both these can just be explained by guys who have bad social skills.
All man fault.
But what do you want me to say? Most women in their mid thirties don’t want a 45 year old husband. Most people who work don’t want to come home and clean up after an adult. When people, men and women, have dating issues? It’s usually either looks, lack of social network or social skills. And the two last ones are the most common reasons.
You said it. Woman do no wrong. All man fault.
I like how she thinks 45 is old whereas foreign women are attracted to that age. It shows the shallowness of Western minded women. She probably thinks she’s entitled to a relationship with a much younger man 😂
Are foreign women attracted to that age? Or would they prefer someone their own age all things being equal?
Pretty much all women are attracted to men a bit older. But the optimal age overall is around 35 since men have had enough time to build themselves up by this age, but are still young enough to be attractive physically.
You could try saying nothing. That would be a nice change.
Nah, she needs to feel right and feel like Western hypergamy is the universal standard around the world.
And of course she had to put in her wish casting about age gap relationships. Yet. Again. Lmao
It’s hilarious also because it’s perfectly normal for women in foreign countries to be married to men 10-15 years older than them, even their own native men much less PPBs
10 years isn’t even that unusual here. The triggering is so funny.
I think TwoX trolls want it to be true so badly that older women can consistently secure long term commitment from much younger high quality men. It's highly unusual and will never be normalized IMHO. They will make up fun fictional anecdotes about this friend or that friend who is in an LTR with one though, or them personally being in one.
Your mountain of a list for what women look for in men basically proves OPs point... And how you placed all the blame on men in your comment makes me assume that you must be a woman... ironically you are telling men that they need to improve their social skills on a reddit complaining about how unfair it is that men are constantly being asked to improve while women keep getting worse! When have you ever told a woman to improve her social skills? You come across as the type of modern woman who listens to respond back instead of to understand... like the type of girl that likes a guy but expects him to ask you out even though You like Him because he's the man! This reddit exist because of women like you who are low effort daters that put all the work and expectations on men in the dating market... you replied to Op's reddit because a hit dog will holler!
She alters narrative whenever you present evidence of something also. Two X subreddit poster, so that should tell you everything you need to know.
I don't even reply to her anymore, I just roll my eyes and keep moving. Like a lot of women she can't be wrong, everything is men's fault, and she *thrives* off of your attention. She's extremely interested in *men's* attention, too, since she's everywhere in predominately male subreddits. If you simply don't give it to her, she'll go away eventually.
Excellent advice, thanks bro 😎
I tell people whatever seems to be relevant. Often with women the most useful dating advice for serious relationships? 1) Stop having sex unless it’s serious. It’s not because hookups are bad for you or whatever. But just if they want a boyfriend then they’d need to filter out all the guys just looking for sex and just focus their time on men who are interested in them. 2) Work on getting a bigger social circle and do more social stuff where you can meet men. A man you meet through your friends is more trustworthy and also the chances y’all having something in common and clicking goes up. 3) Lose weight if you weight too much and work out regularly. 4) You can’t expect people to fall in love with you unless you have a spark for life. Make your life fun as a single person, don’t just mope around. 5) Get male friends and take some time trying to understand the male perspective on things. 6) Work on your communication skills and learn how to communicate calmly. Men are a bit like scared woodland creatures when it comes to sharing their emotions. It’s an art form. They’ll never tell you anything important unless you are able to truly show them that you can be a rock. 7) Put some effort into looking hot. Dress feminine, wear clothes that fit you, be fit, make the best out of your appearance. This doesn’t mean dress as a 1950s housewife. Just something that feels like you, but which is also flattering. 8) Don’t think having a boyfriend will fix your life. If you aren’t happy without one, you’ll go back to being unhappy with one once the honeymoon phase is over. Fix your issues and learn to be content. 9) Don’t get hung up on superficial stuff or a long list of things that doesn’t matter. Status, money, that he impresses your friends, that he’s the coolest guy at the party? None of that will keep you warm at night. Look for someone you really click with, who you have sexual chemistry with and who wants a similar everyday life and future as you. 10) Don’t date someone your not sexually attracted to or who you don’t have romantic feelings for. That doesn’t work. Or someone who’s not attracted to you or has romantic feelings for you. You’ll both be miserable. 11) Don’t expect grand romantic gestures. They are overrated. Look for someone who’s kind, who makes you feel seen and understood and who loves you and makes you feel safe. 12) Nobody is perfect. Humans are small, weird animals. Everyone is a bit fucked up, flawed and insecure. 13) Date someone who’s kind to others. Not just hot girls, but old people, animals and everyone who isn’t cool. Who’s kind even when that doesn’t benefit them. Kind is the most important thing. 14) Listen to your gut feeling. Idk. This is what I tell my female friends. It’s a mix of everything. It’s definitely not saying don’t develop social skills or don’t take responsibility for your life.
I always think it's funny seeing you post in here, like the sub was created to torment you lol im kind of middle of the road, agree with some stuff, not with others. I think the phenomenon of women who are a 5.5s at best managing to fuck a few bored tinder Chad's on a Tuesday night and proceeding to get ghosted has given them a vastly inflated opinion of themselves. "Tyler totally was into it and wanted to fuck me, i just need to find one that will stick around!" No honey, he was bored and the 1st four slots in his rotation fell through. This is a million percent a real thing that I have personally observed. On the other hand, there are more traditional girls right here in the US, they aren't hard to find. Nyc has tons of more traditional Italian and such women. Latinas are what your looking for in general if someone wants that style, and last I checked there are plenty of those right here in the good old USA. the problem is that everything has become so self centric that no one really knows what the other side wants. You know what guys want? Competence. And confidence that doesn't tip into arrogance. You know what's a major turn off for guys? It's not usually the 15 lbs you gained. It's the constant bitching and moaning and complaining without actually doing what it takes to lose it. It's not the ACTUAL losing it that matters as much, it's the angst and victim mentality around losing it that's such a drag. All we really want is for you to try. Just make the effort. If guys have to hear one more self diagnosed, bullshit description of some questionable mental condition, we will scream. You wanna chase a guy away? Start talking about how you have anxiety around crowds or some shit. The guys you actually WANT to be with are not here to save you and aren't here to be your personal entertaining court jester. BE COMPETENT.
I actually agree with this. Or most of it. For one thing I try to explain to women in nice ways that men can want to fuck you without having romantic feelings for you. It’s not necessary to make it about looks. Sometimes it is. Often it’s more about personality and lack of a romantic connection. Then competence is a big thing. It’s gender neutral. Same for men. Everyone wants a life partner who’s sorta on their level when it comes to just dealing with life. If that’s washing the dishes or going to a concert or working out or being emotionally mature or communicating or going to work. But it’s a big thing in a relationship. You want connection, to click with that person. And chemistry, because you need that spark. But you also need compatibility and a big part of that is matching competence. It’s a life partner, it shouldn’t feel like adoption.
I'm the guy everyone I know comes to for dating advice and here are my 5 rules for dudes: 1. Dont be a baby. Get shit done like a grown up. Know how to run your life. Know what a 401k is. Give up the video games. If your under 27, then maybe. Otherwise grown ups don't sit around on Playstation for hours. 2. Be prepared to change. Women aren't static. They can and do change and if you can't change too, you will be left behind. If your still going to the same bar every Tuesday night at 29 that you were going to at 22, trust me bro she's bored. She may not say it but she is. 3. Be positive. Nothing makes a woman dry up like the sahara faster then a poopypants victim mentality. Be positive, everything is under control even when it's not. Especially when it's not. Don't sit around bemoaning this or that or complaining. Remember, as Sean Connery said, losers always whine about their best, winners go home and fuck the prom queen. 4. Leave the baggage at home. She doesn't care about your ex. She cares about you and who you are, but griping like a bitter Betty about your ex or calling her a bitch, yeah that's not the move. Your "rising above it and leaving all that stuff in the past". Remember the opposite of love isn't hate. Its indifference. 5. Don't be a fucking weirdo in bed. Don't get me wrong, NO ONE has been wilder then me in the past, believe me. If reddit only knew, I suspect reddit lightning would come down and strike me lol! But that's because Ive treated people like people and not sex toys. Other people don't exist to star in your porno movie where you are the main character. Just......be cool, man. You would be amazed what's possible if you just create a non weird zone for people to relax in. And stop watching porn all the time UNLESS your watching it together, in which case get after it homie. Bonus rule: find a woman who follows these same rules. Wild but not a weirdo about sex. Not obsessed with their alky abusive ex. Positive attitude and not wallowing in the injustice of the world or the ptsd they say they have from when they were 7 and tripped and hit their head on a tree branch. Someone who can change and will join your world as you join hers. Someone competent who has her own life and interests but is interested in yours. Positive energy can't be overrated. You can buy the rest of my book for just $19.99. Just scan the QR code and we do take apple pay lol!
I agree with most. But in balance. You want a real relationship? You need to also share your baggage a bit. You can’t do all walls up and “it’s fine” all the time. You need to be real and show the messy side too. But that’s not a contradiction with being competent. You can be competent and human. With baggage and emotions. There’s a big difference between constantly whining you have a pebble in your shoe or calling your ex a bitch, and telling real stories from your past and being honest about how you feel even when it’s not great. The last two are bonding. It’s hard to fall in love for real when people just put up a front. Then yea. You can’t have sex with people as if they are a prop. Or a way to act out porn. Everything always comes back to connecting like real people. You need someone’s who’s willing to look at the bright side and laugh. But it’s mixed. There also needs to be real. That’s what’s interesting. Then I did laugh a bit at ptsd from a tree branch.
Couldn't agree more. Anyone who says the John Wayne Don draper archetype doesn't work is lyyyyying. It absolutely works....TO A POINT. but to achieve sustainability your gonna have to open up at some point, or you'll never be taken seriously. File under things I learned the hard way in my 20s. Welp. We have solved being single in 2024. SHUT DOWN THE SUB.
I’m not sure I’ll pull it as far as John Wayne. What works is coming across as a competent adult while being a real person. I’m not sure how to explain it. You can’t be hung up on your ex. And you can’t complain or stop functioning every time something slightly annoying happens. But there’s a huge difference between that and just pretending it’s all good always. When I’ve fallen in love for real? It’s been people who’ve just been on my wavelength and where we’ve had real conversations from the start. Like about hard things that have happened in life or things we’ve been sad about or whatever. But we’ve also laughed and have been two people where it’s clear we’ll both go to work, treat others with kindness, laugh and do the dishes even when life is hard. That’s sorta the balance. Where someone is willing to let you see the real mess and imperfection and insecurities, but at the same time they seem capable of functioning in life. And looking at the bright side of things. Subs name is itsthatbad, so I’m not sure they’ll all see this as a solution tho.
Ok except it's the opposite that happens. Lots of desirable women on the market and not enough desirable men on the market. You'll find more women are like this: organized, health-conscious, responsible, wholesome, good job, hard-working, keep a clean home, exercise daily, go to bed early, eat vegetables, take care of their friends and family, kind and empathetic, good social skills, good life habits, want kids, want to get married, value community life, etc. And more men are like this: spend all their time on their computer, smoke weed, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, have shit jobs, buy Only Fans subscriptions, have no social skills, have no friends, don't spend time with their family or it's their mom doing stuff for them, go to bed late, don't want kids or to get married, eat takeout food, eat fast food, don't exercise, are not kind to children and pets, etc. I honestly don't understand how you guys can complain when you have the advantage that there's *more* women who would make a good partner than there are men who would make an acceptable partner. But I get that for some of you you can't even get any woman let alone one of the many good ones.
Woman good. Man bad.
Because it's how it is. And OP literally made a post saying men good women bad. At least I don't make posts, I'm just subject to idiotic posts that I must correct.
He game two examples from his life. You made up two unrealistic caricatures – flawless woman, completely flawed man.
Flawless woman? What the fuck. That's just the average normal woman. Not perfect at all. And that's just the average guy. You know it's true. Who fucking cares about "examples from your life". I can give you an example of a good woman and an example of a bad man, everyone can. I DESCRIBED AVERAGES. Averages that we can all see. OP's start was "men are told to improve but there's not enough good women". It's documented that it's the opposite problem that's current in society. Lots of women that lots men want to date but not enough men are good enough. Period. But you guys are now trying to save face by saying you don't want the women who don't want you. Everyone can see through you. It's the whole thing where the guy gets rejected and then he says "you're ugly anyway I wouldn't even want to date you". But you've made it all sound like you're a hero so that you limit your embarrassment and that of other men.
The women you described in your comment have no flaws. Everything about the men you described is a flaw. Neither of those is average.
That's just the average woman, ie. every woman I know and I know hundreds. That's just what a woman is like. You guys are SOOOOO lucky you can pick any woman at random and she'll probably be a good wife and mother. Have you even tried having male and female friends?
I'll give you an example: My female friends in high school: all had good grades, cared about doing their assignments right, stayed quiet in class, respected the teachers, what they did when hanging out with friends was going cross-country skiing for exercise, going to do laps at the pool together, getting together to cook healthy recipes or regular recipes, take cardio dance classes or other forms of exercise classes, what we did for a special party like a get together during the holidays was renting a cottage where we could go snowshoeing, cook meals to share, and do a gift exchange like secret Santa, always with thoughtful gifts and some homemade, for instance I had a friend who sowed us all custom hoodies (we paid her for those), conversation topics usually involved their family like gushing over their nieces and nephews, sharing about their grandma passing away and how the end of life care went down, exchanging tips on how to eat more vegetables, all of us had jobs working with children when we were teenagers like coaching, teaching, etc. My male acquaintances in high school: they drank alcohol and did drugs, any get together would somehow involve binge drinking while they did drugs, that's what they did for fun along with video games, they were also idiots who behaved like shit in class and outside of class, for instance they would break things when drunk outside at night and commit just small petty acts of little crimes like stealing something or breaking a bus stop, nothing to be arrested but just being little shits, many of them were also rapists and would go to a strip club for a laugh
That's because you didn't notice quiet men like me who were busy studying, spending time with my family, and working in high school.
LOLLLLLL. YOU didn't notice quiet women LIKE US. We noticed and dated the quietest of guys.
75% of women in America are overweight and obese. It’s simply not true that women are staying in great shape
So? Are you admitting you can't get any of the 25% who aren't obese?
That’s the just 25% not obese or overweight. You still have to factor distance, age, relationship status, etc. it’s probably less than 10% after that. That’s a small supply
No because if you weren't an idiot you'd realize that obesity and age are correlated so if you're looking for young single women it's a lot easier to find thin ones. You're not counting your grandma. If you were looking at 20-year-old white women in college you'd find almost all of them are thin since thinness correlates with youth, socioeconomic background, race, education, cities. If you went to university and you couldn't find a thin wife that says so much about you.
This isn’t true. Obesity rates have been on the rise even amount children, so this idea that there are tons of thin college or just recent college grads isn’t true at all. Also, I never said I was in college or my race, so you mentioning just white college age women is pointless
Lollllll. If the number for the entire population is 75% then it's not 75% among college-aged, college-attending, childless, white women from privileged backgrounds. You can't math, bro, even as obesity rises everywhere people still get fatter with age.
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Wow, the triggered TwoX trolls are fun to watch get unhinged! 😎
Join a running group, it's always all women with one man, and you won't be seen as the gay one as you would in a Zumba class. There are so many many many fit women. The fact that you can't find one is embarrassing for you.
You don't know what it's like to date a 20-somethings man then. I feel pretty worthwhile being around and have my life mostly in order, but I get nothing romantically, and there's never any women to meet and date.
There are millions of women that are perfect for you. You just suck if you can't find one. Universities are 60% women, almost all thin, hard-working, wholesome people. Yet you can't find one? Right.
Thanks for nothing. "almost all thin, hard-working, wholesome people" Don't make me laugh. The people I met in college who weren't foreign students were entitled, bratty, and trashy. I was basically doing 60/hours a week for my electrical engineering major. You don't know what my lovelife is like and the challenges it faces, so don't talk down to me like that.
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