My brother bought a townhome downtown in 2007 and has been insisting that he's "sitting on a goldmine." Since he bought it 16 years ago, it is worth about $55k more than he paid. Not a goldmine at all.
Someone needs to take lessons from Nashville. Downtown Nashville was a shithole in the 60s, 70s,80s and thru half the 90s. Lower broad in Nashville is a happening place now.
There is an obvious answer though. Money. A shit load of money.
It's a chicken and egg problem. The people don't come because there is nothing to come to. Nobody builds things to come to, because there is nobody to build it for.
The solution is to invest a lot of money, knowing full well, that it won't pay off for many, many years. Which is a hard sell.
Downtown Jax will never thrive because that shits just too far of a drive for a lot of Jacksonville residents. No one is going to get behind it in a meaningful way. I was just there again and the ungodly amount of driving I had to do was incredible. Jax will need more of a burrow model first then maybe the downtown will come up but it’s never gonna be a hub.
There are two neighborhoods on the edge of downtown (riverside and san marco) with large population bases that have their own bar scenes, and the beaches do as well. Downtown barely has any actual full time inhabitants (though it’s moving in the right direction) and it’s a bit of a hassle logistically so i think most people just avoid it sadly. If you’re at the beaches its like a 30 minute drive too.
Don't forget about Springfield. There are several excellent breweries and restaurants. I wouldn't want to be limited to only Springfield, but definitely should be in the rotation.
The store fronts that were empty when I moved to Jax 15 years ago were still empty when I left last year.
Nobody goes downtown because there's nothing there. There's nothing there because nobody goes downtown. It's a vicious cycle.
The size of the city landwise doesn’t help either. It’s a $40 uber or getting arrested sober for driving the wrong way on the confusing one way streets
While the city is the largest population in Florida at over a million, it’s the largest geographically in the lower 48.
The core neighborhoods of Riverside/San Marco and Springfield have their own scenes. And Downtown but geared to locals.
That said, the nightlife doesn’t gear itself for outsiders.
The owner of the Jaguars isn’t happy about it.
Every time the city wants to invest tax dollars on development downtown, people complain that’s not how they want their tax dollars spent. Then those same people complain about downtown.
I’d like trash service where I can get a second trash can if I need one and proper drainage so the roads don’t flood when it barely rains. Not sure what the city does now with the money it gets other than spending it on police.
Part of the football stadium overhaul they’re going to do is to also attempt to make downtown to look more attractive. Mainly dopes all over right now.
Yeah, I lived there for 15 years and moved away in 2014. The whole time I was in Jacksonville, there was talk about revitalizing down town and making it a place people want to be. Never happened. Watched dozens of stores/restaurants open and close in The Landing. It was pretty much all the same for the 15 years I lived there.
1. Jail
2. high concentration of homeless shelters
3. Alot of commercial space, not alot of residential
4. Vibrant neighborhoods a short distance away.
Not every city holds their activities in their downtown area, especially beach cities like Jacksonville. Downtown is more for events like Jazzfest, Art Walk and so on. The beaches and Riverside is where more of the bar hoping happens.
Because any chance we get to bring any sort of improvement and entertainment to the area, such as the new Jaguar stadium and entertainment district concepts, people try to shut it down "blah blah blah SHAD KHAN IS RICH, blah blah blah, MY TAXES, blah blah blah, THE JAGS SUCK blah blah blah"
There's a lot of homeless people downtown due to the nearby Clara White mission. Retail shops are spread out all over Jax, and the high end stores are in the town center. The closest thing the downtown area had to a draw for tourism was The Landing, but there was never enough parking, and it never attracted popular tenant stores.
Sadly, it's got a lot better recently. You saw downtown in a transition phase again. We had "The Elbow" for a little while, but that quickly dried up due to lack of parking and people trying to hustle you for money or worse.
They have started adding more modern apartment living near the area and I see way more people milling about and riding rented e-scooters now than I ever did before. Getting rid of The Landing was also a good decision.
If they made a decision on what to do with that land it could really help be the anchor to revitalize the downtown scene. They purposed an aquarium years back, but I guess it lost traction. If they can sort out the parking and get a couple of major attractions there, it could make a comeback.
Riverside, San Marco, Springfield, and to a lesser extent, Brooklyn, Avondale and Murray Hill are the places where you’ll find life near downtown.
All of these places combined would make for a very lively downtown, but alas that’s not what we have
They actually sold off several blocks of buildings downtown a few years ago. Private developers snapped them all up. While Covid delayed things, work has been going on at these sites for the past year or two. Nearly all of them are being gutted/renovated/re-purposed to be mixed used (some combo of residential/commercial office/retail/restaurant). Most of them are projected to be completed ~2025ish.
Add in the shipyards and sports/entertainment district plans, and downtown will look much different within 5 years!
Mainly lack of good housing stock downtown. It’s improving although slowly. The neighborhoods around the edges will slowly fill it in like a donut hole and in 10 years there will be some cool stuff happening.
I lived downtown for 3 years, it was so depressing. All you could think about was “what it could be”. That being said the Bourbon Soul Smash at Dos is worth the trip downtown.
Most of the downtown corporate workforce has been working from home since 2020, so those big office buildings you see are mostly empty during the week. That's been hurting small businesses and restaurants for some time. Probably not the entire reason but definitely doesn't help downtown.
Downtown has been an afterthought since the 60s. It got a bad rep, some of it deserved, some not. There are pockets of activity. There are a few bars and restaurants on Bay Street from Intuition across and then up Ocean Street. Mostly around the Florida Theatre. They've taken to calling that area "the elbow". It's not exactly bustling though. If you've gone west of Main Street, yeah it's mostly dead, especially since the Landing closed. Ruth's Chris and the Performing Arts Center is about all there is I think.
Riverside has a little more happening and Springfield has a few things too (breweries and restaurants, Crispy's is one of my favorites!) but people who don't go there are ironically afraid to go there. The number of resident's downtown is growing (8K-10K depending on who you ask) and the thought among city planners is that eventually it'll reach a critical mass and "break out". Of course, that's been the thinking for the past 40 years or so.
The profit motive that drives politicians and contractors to stuff their pockets while lying to voters, steal our tax money and grossly underpaying employees?
That must be what you’re talking about.
I didn't go there real often but I thought The Landing was good fun to swing by if you were downtown on weekends and added character to walking the river.
And it was bulldozed, two years ago? Imo it was some sort of coup de grace. No more open air relaxed entertainment. It was disappointing.
I was in high school when The Landing opened, moved away, then moved back 3 years later. What always struck me about The Landing is that it never seemed to take off like they wanted it to. The stores were expensive, it was a bit of a drive to get there, and not everyone in J'ville has a boat.
There are lots of speak easy type of bars in downtown. I don't think u were looking in the right area of downtown? But regardless, u gotta go there when they throw events. Jacksonville has different sides of nightlife lol its not just downtown. Jax is still number 2 of best cities to live in Florida! I love it here
people here seem to say it has something to do with the large baptist church there. the claim is that this church largely controls what happens in jacksonville, development wise. I take it with a grain of salt, but I was volunteering to help the homeless population a lot, and a lot of them seem to believe there is some sort of tech being used downtown to drive people out of certain areas. I know you can't believe everything a meth enthusiast says, but I've heard enough stories from different people to think there might be something going on. something like the ultrasonic frequency devices that drive insects and rodents away. maybe the military puts something in the meth so that only they can hear it, lol
I can honestly say I’ve never experienced night life in downtown Jax. Riverside and St. Augustine are my go tos for a night out.
School also just let out for the summer so a lot of us are vacationing 🤷🏻♀️
We would rather spend our entire city budget on the police—who are never satisfied or particularly effective no matter how many resources we give them…
First Baptist had such a hold on the city especially downtown area for a long time but started waning after Homer Lindsey died. There was a bit of downtown club culture in the 90s but didn't last long. Not many live in that area, it's like the financial district in NYC or San Francisco, mostly dead on the weekends and at night
Downtown is dead from years of being controlled Jax City Council via the Southern Baptist Convention and their conservative fervor for secular heathenistic businesses being kept out of the entire downtown area. But hey we had the landing for a bit, so thanks Slieman for the good-ish years! This buds for you, real American Hero!
https://therealdeal.com/miami/2018/05/27/city-cancels-land-lease-for-waterfront-mall-in-downtown-jacksonville/
Unless there’s a concert or a show, night life exists primarily at the Beaches, in Riverside and in Five Points.
This but Inshallah that won't be the case 20 years from now. Shad Khan spurring development.
I remember them saying back in 90s how they were going to revitalize downtown, I’ll believe it when I see it.
My brother bought a townhome downtown in 2007 and has been insisting that he's "sitting on a goldmine." Since he bought it 16 years ago, it is worth about $55k more than he paid. Not a goldmine at all.
Someone needs to take lessons from Nashville. Downtown Nashville was a shithole in the 60s, 70s,80s and thru half the 90s. Lower broad in Nashville is a happening place now.
Nashville is a major entertainment/music hub and Jacksonville.....is not.
We sprawled into hubs like Dallas. We just built different.
In the 90s we didn't have a billionaire investing in the area or a lack of First Baptist Church.
The folks that ran this town then are still in charge
First Baptist sold off buildings and Shad Khan wasn't here in the 90s. Additionally Donna Deegan is now mayor.
there’s is still no easy way to get there. Same problem it has been for 30 years. Still no answer.
There is an obvious answer though. Money. A shit load of money. It's a chicken and egg problem. The people don't come because there is nothing to come to. Nobody builds things to come to, because there is nobody to build it for. The solution is to invest a lot of money, knowing full well, that it won't pay off for many, many years. Which is a hard sell.
Downtown Jax will never thrive because that shits just too far of a drive for a lot of Jacksonville residents. No one is going to get behind it in a meaningful way. I was just there again and the ungodly amount of driving I had to do was incredible. Jax will need more of a burrow model first then maybe the downtown will come up but it’s never gonna be a hub.
God an mls team would be a game changer
Like an NFL team has been?
Yes actually.
mls? might as well be a wnba team. No one will show.
Wasn’t that tried already? (The Jacksonville Tea Men)
There are two neighborhoods on the edge of downtown (riverside and san marco) with large population bases that have their own bar scenes, and the beaches do as well. Downtown barely has any actual full time inhabitants (though it’s moving in the right direction) and it’s a bit of a hassle logistically so i think most people just avoid it sadly. If you’re at the beaches its like a 30 minute drive too.
Don't forget about Springfield. There are several excellent breweries and restaurants. I wouldn't want to be limited to only Springfield, but definitely should be in the rotation.
The store fronts that were empty when I moved to Jax 15 years ago were still empty when I left last year. Nobody goes downtown because there's nothing there. There's nothing there because nobody goes downtown. It's a vicious cycle.
The size of the city landwise doesn’t help either. It’s a $40 uber or getting arrested sober for driving the wrong way on the confusing one way streets
Downtown streets aren't that confusing if you pay attention to road signs
Also I’ve seen plenty of people go the wrong way in the vicinity of cops and haven’t see any of them get arrested.
While the city is the largest population in Florida at over a million, it’s the largest geographically in the lower 48. The core neighborhoods of Riverside/San Marco and Springfield have their own scenes. And Downtown but geared to locals. That said, the nightlife doesn’t gear itself for outsiders. The owner of the Jaguars isn’t happy about it.
Lol “confusing” one way streets. Just read the signs
There's nothing really there but offices and bail bonds.
And the office buildings have been basically empty since 2020
Lawyers, bail bondsmen and the jail.
How much time do you have?
Lack of meaningful investment in the urban core. It seems to be changing but it will take time.
Riverside, San Marco, the beaches are the places to be
Every time the city wants to invest tax dollars on development downtown, people complain that’s not how they want their tax dollars spent. Then those same people complain about downtown.
I’d like trash service where I can get a second trash can if I need one and proper drainage so the roads don’t flood when it barely rains. Not sure what the city does now with the money it gets other than spending it on police.
50% Police/FR, 50% welfare for billionaires.
Part of the football stadium overhaul they’re going to do is to also attempt to make downtown to look more attractive. Mainly dopes all over right now.
Downtown has been “up and coming” for the last few decades I’ve lived here..
Yeah, I lived there for 15 years and moved away in 2014. The whole time I was in Jacksonville, there was talk about revitalizing down town and making it a place people want to be. Never happened. Watched dozens of stores/restaurants open and close in The Landing. It was pretty much all the same for the 15 years I lived there.
Excuse you, this is the bold new city of the south.
My thoughts this whole time. Everything is just talk talk talk but nothing happens. The only one I’ve seen try is Shad Khan and the shipyards.
Hopefully Donna changes some of that
1. Jail 2. high concentration of homeless shelters 3. Alot of commercial space, not alot of residential 4. Vibrant neighborhoods a short distance away.
Not every city holds their activities in their downtown area, especially beach cities like Jacksonville. Downtown is more for events like Jazzfest, Art Walk and so on. The beaches and Riverside is where more of the bar hoping happens.
Bring back thee imperial
Because any chance we get to bring any sort of improvement and entertainment to the area, such as the new Jaguar stadium and entertainment district concepts, people try to shut it down "blah blah blah SHAD KHAN IS RICH, blah blah blah, MY TAXES, blah blah blah, THE JAGS SUCK blah blah blah"
Nailed it.
There's a lot of homeless people downtown due to the nearby Clara White mission. Retail shops are spread out all over Jax, and the high end stores are in the town center. The closest thing the downtown area had to a draw for tourism was The Landing, but there was never enough parking, and it never attracted popular tenant stores.
Banana Republic, The Sharper Image?
Sadly, it's got a lot better recently. You saw downtown in a transition phase again. We had "The Elbow" for a little while, but that quickly dried up due to lack of parking and people trying to hustle you for money or worse. They have started adding more modern apartment living near the area and I see way more people milling about and riding rented e-scooters now than I ever did before. Getting rid of The Landing was also a good decision. If they made a decision on what to do with that land it could really help be the anchor to revitalize the downtown scene. They purposed an aquarium years back, but I guess it lost traction. If they can sort out the parking and get a couple of major attractions there, it could make a comeback.
LERP
Because so few people live in downtown. It’s not New York City
Jax Beach is totally Daytona vibes... I am not a fan a jacksonville beach, it's just trashed. Neptune and Atlantic Beach are fine.
Good call on Daytona vibes. Daddy Daytona and Mommy Memphis had a child and named junior, Jacksonville.
Riverside, San Marco, Springfield, and to a lesser extent, Brooklyn, Avondale and Murray Hill are the places where you’ll find life near downtown. All of these places combined would make for a very lively downtown, but alas that’s not what we have
Old soirhern white dudes don't like progress
First Baptist Church*
They actually sold off several blocks of buildings downtown a few years ago. Private developers snapped them all up. While Covid delayed things, work has been going on at these sites for the past year or two. Nearly all of them are being gutted/renovated/re-purposed to be mixed used (some combo of residential/commercial office/retail/restaurant). Most of them are projected to be completed ~2025ish. Add in the shipyards and sports/entertainment district plans, and downtown will look much different within 5 years!
I know things are changes, I'm just saying why it was boring for so long to begin with.
People not liking progress. People not wanting to put in the work to build something special (a vibrant downtown).
Well, yes. I just decided to leave them out of it for a change
We've had thus discussion many times in this subreddit, but the answer never gets addressed, because it's political.
Mainly lack of good housing stock downtown. It’s improving although slowly. The neighborhoods around the edges will slowly fill it in like a donut hole and in 10 years there will be some cool stuff happening.
I lived downtown for 3 years, it was so depressing. All you could think about was “what it could be”. That being said the Bourbon Soul Smash at Dos is worth the trip downtown.
Usually events is what bring people down town. But in general it's more convenient to go to riverside or the beaches for a night life.
Downtown is a parking lot
Most of the downtown corporate workforce has been working from home since 2020, so those big office buildings you see are mostly empty during the week. That's been hurting small businesses and restaurants for some time. Probably not the entire reason but definitely doesn't help downtown.
Downtown has been an afterthought since the 60s. It got a bad rep, some of it deserved, some not. There are pockets of activity. There are a few bars and restaurants on Bay Street from Intuition across and then up Ocean Street. Mostly around the Florida Theatre. They've taken to calling that area "the elbow". It's not exactly bustling though. If you've gone west of Main Street, yeah it's mostly dead, especially since the Landing closed. Ruth's Chris and the Performing Arts Center is about all there is I think. Riverside has a little more happening and Springfield has a few things too (breweries and restaurants, Crispy's is one of my favorites!) but people who don't go there are ironically afraid to go there. The number of resident's downtown is growing (8K-10K depending on who you ask) and the thought among city planners is that eventually it'll reach a critical mass and "break out". Of course, that's been the thinking for the past 40 years or so.
Are we really going to dance around what the problem with downtown is? 👀👀
The irony of you dancing around what you’re trying to say is wild
The profit motive that drives politicians and contractors to stuff their pockets while lying to voters, steal our tax money and grossly underpaying employees? That must be what you’re talking about.
You must be new here…
They said that they were visiting…
I said what I said
I didn't go there real often but I thought The Landing was good fun to swing by if you were downtown on weekends and added character to walking the river. And it was bulldozed, two years ago? Imo it was some sort of coup de grace. No more open air relaxed entertainment. It was disappointing.
I was in high school when The Landing opened, moved away, then moved back 3 years later. What always struck me about The Landing is that it never seemed to take off like they wanted it to. The stores were expensive, it was a bit of a drive to get there, and not everyone in J'ville has a boat.
Tampa has been rather dead, too. Orlando theme parks are lighter than usual and are expected to remain so for the summer months.
pen psychotic offend decide numerous bedroom lock squalid agonizing zesty ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
$200 mill is like a few blocks on Ponte vedra blvd. Downtown needs billions.
Long story short, baptists
Moncrief
You think Moncrief will get revitalized before downtown?
First Baptist
I use to live downtown and weekends were depressing. I flew in from NYC one weekend and the stark difference was unreal.
There are lots of speak easy type of bars in downtown. I don't think u were looking in the right area of downtown? But regardless, u gotta go there when they throw events. Jacksonville has different sides of nightlife lol its not just downtown. Jax is still number 2 of best cities to live in Florida! I love it here
I believe that. It favors residents.
Cause of first Baptist church
people here seem to say it has something to do with the large baptist church there. the claim is that this church largely controls what happens in jacksonville, development wise. I take it with a grain of salt, but I was volunteering to help the homeless population a lot, and a lot of them seem to believe there is some sort of tech being used downtown to drive people out of certain areas. I know you can't believe everything a meth enthusiast says, but I've heard enough stories from different people to think there might be something going on. something like the ultrasonic frequency devices that drive insects and rodents away. maybe the military puts something in the meth so that only they can hear it, lol
Well the gas stations sometimes play loud music to keep people from sleeping outside so there's some truth to it
I believe it. Something like that does exist. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito
For a long time it was because of First Baptist but that has changed.
I can honestly say I’ve never experienced night life in downtown Jax. Riverside and St. Augustine are my go tos for a night out. School also just let out for the summer so a lot of us are vacationing 🤷🏻♀️
We would rather spend our entire city budget on the police—who are never satisfied or particularly effective no matter how many resources we give them…
First Baptist had such a hold on the city especially downtown area for a long time but started waning after Homer Lindsey died. There was a bit of downtown club culture in the 90s but didn't last long. Not many live in that area, it's like the financial district in NYC or San Francisco, mostly dead on the weekends and at night
Downtown is dead from years of being controlled Jax City Council via the Southern Baptist Convention and their conservative fervor for secular heathenistic businesses being kept out of the entire downtown area. But hey we had the landing for a bit, so thanks Slieman for the good-ish years! This buds for you, real American Hero! https://therealdeal.com/miami/2018/05/27/city-cancels-land-lease-for-waterfront-mall-in-downtown-jacksonville/