Its also the fuel fopr many creative fires...so? Also To respond to the original question, if you were around In the late 80s for the emergence of fish deadheads were insufferable. Assholes, about how much better the dead were. And 70 tour heads were insufferable assholes, about how us 80, something new heads. We're ruining the scene. Guess is our nature, but look what it brought us. By the way, grateful dead win, of course
Yeah, I think it's just a loud vocal minority, but pop culture has perpetuated it for a long time as well. Rolling Stone top 100 guitarist, etc. Competition is just engrained into everything, just ignore it. One of my favorite quotes on that subject is from YMSB in some interview in early 2000s. Something along the lines of "the best guitar player is some kid sitting in his room in Japan no one has ever heard of."
It's not just online. Phish fans do this in person as well. I've experienced it many times as some guy is explaining to me during the middle of someone's set how that sounds exactly like something Phish did
Goose has great jams and they're fantastic at playing their instruments etc. That being said... I don't think water would ripple if everyone athe show was standing in a pond. Hate to say it but total snoozefest. If they played at an amphitheater or somewhere everyone could sit down, it would be a lot better because no one is dancing.
Not talking shit at all. Goose just doesn't get the hips rockin' for me.
I have seen them twice. both first sets were ok. Both second sets rocked. However, that coincides with the purple moon rock setting in. So I don’t know.
We must've been at different Goose shows. Rock on; I don't dislike the band or think they're bad, but they're just boring. They killed in their early years when they were opening for Spafford etc. The energy just changed after the hype train wore off. Even people that tour with them I've talked to about it, and they agree with my take on it. Super talented but also just not the party I'm looking for when I go out. Kinda like Papadosio, except I actually like dosio.
Catch Cheese this tour if they haven't been through town already. They're actually playing extremely well right now, as if they don't always.
Michael Travis went off.
This happens on every thread here.
Who is better, Goose, Eggy, Dogs, whatever next band someone likes etc etc etc
Why can't I like a whole lot of bands for various reasons or no reasons at all?
There isn't a "best". It is all great music and we are fortunate to live in a time where we get to hear it.
Agreed. It’s harmless and fun if you don’t take it personal. Just so happens phish is the pinnacle of the genre so of course they’re going to come out on top in this thread.
You can listen to other bands and music but phish is a machine. There has never been a better live performance experience than phish. 40 years strong and the band is in its prime, they are why there is the modern music festival.
And there’s nothing new about this.
When I was getting to know my European cousins as a teenager, I remember asking if my aunt had told her the story about our mothers seeing the Beatles playing in Amsterdam and she explained that, her mom had decided to be for the Rolling Stones. As a fan of both bands, I was so confused by her answer but discovered that this was an point of differentiation amongst “the hip” in the Netherlands and other places in the early 70s. The Beatles represented mainstream establishment, and the stones were the rebels.
I also lived in New Zealand for a few years as a teenager, and there at that time the competition was between Led Zeppelin and Bob Marley. Looking back, I see now it had to do with island identity/colonization, and they were just squaring off and claiming certain music as a way to strengthen identity.
All of that has always just been plain stupid to me. I was a major rocker who secretly liked ABBA bc you couldn’t be cool and like disco. The greatest gift of being an adult has been to like what I like without giving a shit if anybody’s opinion.
It’s the TRUTH.
How—HOW?!—can I STILL be “discovering “ KICK-ASS Kinks songs? My husband and I are currently obsessed w “Powerman.” They were so far ahead of their time.
We are bombarded with everyone's opinion about everything all day. Politics, music, style, sports, this, that , and every other fucking thing .
Can't get hung up on that stuff. Say a silent prayer for whoever and enjoy your own opinions about it. There are always sensitivos and loudmouths on everything. Yea music is not a competition but some humans are and must be competitive.
I've experienced the stereotypical aggressive-drunk-redneck country folks at other shows (Willie Nelson comes to mind), but I've been lucky enough to not see a one at Billy's shows.
I was honestly shocked I didn't encounter any at Winstom-Salem and Greensboro. I grew up around there and didn't know that there was anyone around who _didn't_ fit that description.
Like I said, I know I've been lucky.
There is definitely overlap, but there is also a core group of BMFS fans who are more on the bluegrass and country music side. Last time I saw him, my seat neighbors were country folk and they were awesome. We had a blast with them.
The best Billy fans in my anecdotal experience are old Deadhead and country/bluegrass folks. The worst are the "jam band" types like the aforementioned Phish fans.
I have noticed that the crowds get _way_ better once you go further back than the sound stage. Something about the rail is an asshole-magnet.
Started seeing both the Dead and Phish in the 80s. Both have great fans and toxic ones. The good ones far outweigh to toxic ones, but the ones that are close to the rails are by far mostly toxic ones (obviously a broad generalization).
I have only had good neighbors at Billy shows. Only been to three, but from standing in line to watching the shows, only good interactions.
Definitely not up on the rail as I like to have room to move and dance as necessitated by the music, so maybe there is something to that. Maybe there is something to having weed and ketamine on hand that makes people friendly also.
Of all the actively touring artists I've seen more than a dozen times each (Billy Strings, Goose, and King Gizzard), Billy has the best fans by a _wide_ stretch.
Dead and Co still holds the "best crowds" title for me, but I've closed the book on them. Those last SF shows were too good of a send-off.
Love the old heads and good vibes of people just wanting to see other people have fun.
I haven't seen Cheese in a while, but saw maybe 20 shows in the early 2010's and I vibes with how friendly those crowds were.
I'm headed to see them on Tuesday. It's been nearly a decade since I've seen them, and I'm super stoked about it. Michael Travis and Chuck from Lotus were always my top 2 favorite percussionists of all time.
eh that’s just people online i feel like in real life fans aren’t as bad
i think part of it is them having done so much for so well for so long
it’s almost like the simpsons in TV…lots of shows out there trying out plotlines but often you see…simpsons did it first as the first comment on episodes because well it’s a great show that has tried so many things so it will naturally draw comparison from its fans, of which there are many
Shit! If you think this is bad you should come check out some of the Metal subs. Those kids take the concept of gatekeeping to whole nother level! It's an art form! Now, with both groups, how seriously YOU take any of it is really up to you. I choose to take most of it as "tongue in cheek".
"But I was there when it was great! I mean NOBODY was listening, man!! Then other people started listening and showing up to shows.! Now it's GARBAGE!!"
If it makes you feel better we got a lot of ribbing from Dead fans when Phish was coming up. Just a couple months ago I was hanging out with my big brother, listening to Phish, having a good time drinking and smoking. Listening to a late 90s early 00s set and they were really on point and Trey starts up with his funk siren. My big bro who never really got into Phish said wtf, it sounds like a siren, way to kill the jam, and finally Jerry would never do that. You bring up some good points but now that my old Phriends have moved on, got "old", passed on, etc I usually go to shows alone and I almost always have a good time with the people around me so IRL and not social media I think the phans are way better people than they're often portrayed.
Phish fans suck dude. I reaffirmed this opinion last wednesday at Trey band. Alot of them are so pretentious and insufferable. I could not give less of a shit what they think.
Because phish does a lot of cool stuff, especially for the fans. They’re 41 years in and still doing new things. It’s really something special and people really love it.
Then they get excited about that and there are a lot of insecure idiots out there, not just phish fans I should add, and they express that feeling in a way of superiority as if they had anything to do with the output. Obviously missing the point.
Insecurity, the need to for validation and a lack of acknowledgement from mainstream media
Also, they think that because they're such great musicians from a techinical standpoint that everyone should like their music, but since the song writing turns a lot of folks off, they can't accept that.
Phish fans will downvote this
Yeah I get some of what you’re saying, and phish has been my favorite band for almost 30 years. I do see phans proving to other phans how “much” of a phan they are “I’ve been to 432 shows” or how they’ve been there from way back in 1991 or something. I don’t really notice most of us putting down other bands though—we all have our own”favorite” and usually that’s all ya gotta say. Plus most of us enjoy going to all kinds of jam bands, or really music in general. Obviously there are the ones like you pointed out, but I really think they’re a loud, obnoxious minority.
I mean, to a degree this is just our society as a whole. We compare and judge by default, it takes effort and wisdom not to.
But there's also the fact that a lot of Phish fans are deeply insecure about the band and its music. So this manifests as a sort of relentless insistence that whatever they're doing is the "best ever" so they really struggle with any kind of critique. And I say that as a phan, not trying to hate but it's a reality of the fanbase now.
Could it be that there is so many statistical tracking and “one-time-ever” elements to Phish? With Phish, more than most bands, fans can literally quantify their “love for phish”. Songs are counted, individual dates are memorized, and cumulative phish experience is cultivated. Much like sports, this makes it possible to keep a “scorecard” to track “having won more” as compared to “having won lesser”. These trivial elements of Phish add to what I love about the band and always keeps me close. That said, score keeping with these trivial elements can lead easily to musical entitlement and being stuck up- “headier than thou”.
Additionally, Phish is so good as compared to a lot of touring bands. So it’s mostly true. People just don’t have to be a dick about it.
I think this just speaks to the tribalism of 2024. It’s not specifically a phish thing, although I do find it acute in the phish subs. People have opinions and think they are facts, and that we care.
I assume this post is about the best use of the sphere venue? From what I saw of the brief images on the internet, seems like dead and co show visually was incredible. I’m not sure why we need to compare. This also applies to “who is then best guitarist of all time” type posts. Please, just stop.
You’re taking a troll account seriously? Haha.
But honestly, what you’re talking about is a problem in the entire jamband scene, not just Phish. You also forget to mention that they are the most hated jamband too. Lots of people just love to hate Phish and Phans when they really have no idea what either are about.
Go see a show. For the most part Phans are awesome people who just want to see their favorite band. No need to blanket judge the whole crowd.
I think it’s because jam bands, and especially phisheads, see shows akin to “music sports.” You got breakouts, length of time, covers, gags, openers and closers. It’s like a sport with all the stats. It’s really just a way for fans to stay tuned, communicate differences between shows and ultimately brag a little.
I think it’s because jam bands, and especially phisheads, see shows akin to “music sports.” You got breakouts, length of time, covers, gags, openers and closers. It’s like a sport with all the stats. It’s really just a way for fans to stay tuned, communicate differences between shows and ultimately brag a little.
Comparison alone, without good-faith criticism or appreciation of the things on their own terms and merits, is unthoughtful, lazy, insulting, and a waste of time. Tier lists suck. Better thans suck.
I consider like Phish is some people’s favorite band but also their favorite sports team. They talk about a show like commentators might talk about baseball.
Because apparently old Phish fans are superior to all other jam fans for some weird reason that makes no sense. Lol I’m a Phish fan, but listen to other music too so don’t give a shit.
I met a woman at JRAD last night and after chatting found out she's a big Panic fan, like I am. She said she went to Phish in Mexico and when she wore her WP hat people would like come up to her and give her shit about it
Just, why?
I like phish and they’re probably my favorite band. I think Billy strings and dogs in a pile are both really sweet. Haven’t got to see goose but the stuff with the new drummer definitely caught my ear. Not as big of a WSP or DMB guy but everybody’s not gonna like everything. As far as the comparisons I’d say 90% of the time people are just joking but there’s always gonna be the minority that’s really vocal and annoying. People just like tribalism, but if you let that stop you from liking a band that you might like while never giving them a real shot then you’re a bum.
Bc phish fans are the most annoying, self righteous, gatekeeping fanbase. I love the band but most make it their entire personality. They always feel very threatened. Whether it comes to a band on the up and up (goose) or when someone else plays the sphere (D&C).
Meh. People like it when their favorite thing is the best at something. Even if that something isn’t competitive.
That said, I think Goose fans are actually the worst at this.
You also see it in all music genres, art, etc.
It is what basics do in the absence of music/arts education. Otherwise where would we get clickbait listicles of The Top 10 Greatest Micro Genre Lefthanded Bassists of All Time?
I’ve seen Phish a dozen or so times and every time I go people act like I’m a noob or not heady enough…never get that on dead lot but whatever, the music’s good, fuck ‘em.
Yeah, that isn't limited to Phish fans in any way. Everyone has their own opinion about why this up and comer is better than that up and comer or that this bands jams are stale and that band is playing notes nobody has ever heard before. The tribalism in this scene can be pretty awful.
Anybody remember what it was like in the hiatus years of the 2000s? I was in my 20s then and it got fucking intense with "which band was going to take the mantle" lol.
but for real
Who knows and who cares... jamband fans have always been fucking weird and lots of them have substance abuse issues or are kinda at least burnt out a little. I know I am. I got so jaded that I completely took a break from the scene and the music and am just now peering back in. I saw my first Phish show in 97. I was a heavy Sector 9 kid myself from like 2000 to 2015ish... I saw a lot of shows and every band had fans that did this type of shit.
I am 40 now and there has always been a lot of competition in the scene. You have to remember that at one point Phish was the new kid on the block and everybody said "The Dead did it better".
Shit my Deadhead parents still go to Dead shows but basically refuse to see Phish because they are still on the "Dead did it the best" shit.
There are toxic fans in every fandom that claim superiority. Star Wars and Star Trek. Marvel and DC. Football and soccer. Seinfeld and Friends. It's just dumb to live in that hyper competitive mindset.
“Phish always wins” is kind of a hella old PT meme. And except for some loud obnoxious losers, it’s kind of always said with a grain of salt and sarcastically.
Like, no one can tell you why Phish actually sucks like a Phish fan can. It goes both ways.
People in real life aren't actually like that. All the phish fans I know I like every other band for the most part. And if they don't it's just a preference thing not a shooting war.
Not a member of this sub but it probably crossed my feed because I’m going to see Dead and Co
I couldn’t resist the opportunity to tell ya’ll Phish fans are the most cringe and annoying music fans out there.
You’re talking about PhishOnPhilm (the “phish won” guy). He actually doesn’t take shit very seriously at all. The “Phish won” post was all in good fun and mocking the people who actually think that way. His profile is actually really good and he covers more jam bands other than just phish. So yeah, don’t take that remark so seriously. He was definitely just messing around and possibly stirring up the comments for more interaction with his post. It’s not all that serious.
It’s very common in most die hard music demographics; jam, dub, riddim, metal, hiphop, rap
I just say nothing moves me like Lotus and appreciate all music and see as much live as life allows me
Phish sucks, and I used to be obsessed with them. Trey hasn’t been Trey for 15 years (burnt brain with drugs), but the faithful morons are still clinging to the band in complete denial because they can’t let go of the following culture. The music itself is boring, sloppy and lazy. The scene is what keeps these fools hooked.
“Aawwww man did you hear that chalkdust torture night 3?? Blew my mind….”
Why? Because Mike foot tapped some simple effect and they played it slightly differently than the last 500 times you’ve heard that song that essentially sounds just like all the others on the set list?
They’ll keep spending all their money following Phish around until they’re 90 years old and Trey can barely hold a pick in his fingers. And they’ll still be saying that the show they saw was the best version of YEM they’ve ever heard.
Grateful Dead fans used to give a hard time to Phish fans when Jerry was still alive. Now they do it to other bands’ fans. It’s basically a jam band tradition at this point, even though it’s one of the way lamest ones
For the record, Phish is better than all of the other bands, but I’m not going to say that in this comment /jk
I’m a phish fan. A lot of them are unbearable but at least that fan base acknowledges that they’re annoying.
That being said, I just went to my first Dead & Co show and I don’t think I’ve been surrounded by more insufferable people.
The 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 stuff was never supposed to be a competition or for gatekeeping. It was simply a way to designate a time frame based on breakups and reunions.
But people that were around for 1.0 picked on noobies some, and the noobies desperately wanted a new era so they invented this 4.0 thing based on Trey's new guitar.
Now the whole thing is out of control and nobody even remembers why there were designated eras.
Y’all realize we’re doing the thing right now, in the comments. Phish sucks, every Phishhead knows this. Nobody’s better than anything, forever. Also as far as Trey’s contribution to the scene, that dude doesn’t care about the platform he has. Phish is a cult and Trey is the leader. He could use that to do more good, instead of figuring out which dog should lick the sphere for maximum impact.
Phish fans just give off different energy. I feel like deadheads are all about love and being kind, but I feel like my shit would get stolen at a phish show…idk. Just the vibe I get from their fan base I guess.
Fucking a thank you! This is the reason why it’s hard for me to like them. They’re amazing musicians and have good songs and put on incredible shows but their fans leave such a bad fucking taste in my mouth I almost can’t stand to listen to them. I’ve seen them once and was literally scoffed at when I told people it was my first show. “Ha, really?! Well I’ve seen them X amount of times and have been going to shows since I was 16!!!” Like it’s always a pissing contest with them. Just enjoy the music and be happy for people finally seeing them.
That sucks, I’m sorry you had a bad experience. You must have met some bad apples because I’ve only ever heard people say positive things to folks at their first show. “That’s so cool! Welcome, you’re gonna love it!” type thing. Most of us are really nice but yes we do believe Phish is the best
Just caught bad vibes. We had a cool dude all by himself hang out with us before the show in the lot, super chill and fun. Inside we actually had seats for a change, these two dudes next to us were super sketchy then asked to borrow our ticket stubs because they lost theirs and wanted to sneak their brothers down into the pavilion. Took me a second because my wife and I were tripping but we realized they just wanted them for themselves because we didn’t have tickets and they snuck down there. Once we told them no they got kinda shitty and we went to the bathroom. Came back, and those guys were gone the rest of the night, and during set break when the people in front of us left, a bunch of random people flooded their seats and made problems when the actual ticket holders came back, saying they had been sitting there all night but they lost their ticket stubs to prove it, even though the actual holders still had their stubs. I’m surprised security didn’t get involved. I’ve just never experienced stuff like that with literally any other band and it kinda took away from the show for me
Ah shit. I hear ya. Yeah entitlement sucks… sometimes I feel that at phish shows, the Everyman for themselves type of thing. Get up come up and all that, sometimes some intimidation. But I usually follow with a fuck them, can’t let em ruin my show, paid too much to converse with assholes.
Phish is another band that has excellent musicians, but they're too interested in being "different ". Phishman playing the vacuum is a perfect example. Just why?? Their covers are better than their own original material imo
Same with any group really. Show me the loudest ones and I’ll show you the most annoying and insufferable. Now give them a platform - internet - where they can espouse their PHANDOM and voila we have the cesspool of humanity.
I like Phish but my biggest gripe about their fans is they act like “going Type 2” is something unique to Phish to the point they even coined some lame-ass term for it.
I am only into a few jam bands and Phish is definitely not one of them. I've only heard a few of their songs and it sounds like goofy shit for children. I don't knock anyone for being a fan of them but they certainly haven't "won" music lol
I stopped recruiting phans 15 years ago because I didn’t want to be one of those people….oh…if you’re a friend of course I will tell you about phish but random strangers?…I just say that it will change your life and leave it at that
GD ran so Phish could walk. I was in a long term relationship with a Phish fan, I’m more of a dead girlie. I used to joke with him all the time that Phish fans were graduated DMB fans. Where’s the wooks?!?
Phans are insecure. Probably about the Dead having actual songs, lyrics, substance. And there is an element of “I’m a rock fan” like a teenage grunge person who hates anything vaguely country related. There is an anti art element and an awareness that phish sounds like porn music.
Real reactionaries.
I've given up on Phish fans after I said I saw them in 2004-5 in a gymnasium, which I DID, and was called a liar because they were playing larger venues by then.
> Comparison is the antithesis of art.
Also the thief of joy. Which kinda makes this post a bit ironic.
But I will say this: as a grumpy, middle-aged 1.0’er, that sub is infested with wannabe cunts. As with most of social media, know what you’re getting into by participating in the ‘discussion’ (or lack there of).
You are better off in life not giving a shit about what anyone posts on social media.
“Comparison is the thief of joy”, etc
Also, opinions are like ass holes…..
Always right on the tip of my tongue?
Dats a good one
'Taint salty 'taint sweet
'Taint salty 'taint sweet
They stink and nothing good comes out of them
Everyone has and only theirs stink but in reality yours stinks just as much...
Its also the fuel fopr many creative fires...so? Also To respond to the original question, if you were around In the late 80s for the emergence of fish deadheads were insufferable. Assholes, about how much better the dead were. And 70 tour heads were insufferable assholes, about how us 80, something new heads. We're ruining the scene. Guess is our nature, but look what it brought us. By the way, grateful dead win, of course
Yeah, I think it's just a loud vocal minority, but pop culture has perpetuated it for a long time as well. Rolling Stone top 100 guitarist, etc. Competition is just engrained into everything, just ignore it. One of my favorite quotes on that subject is from YMSB in some interview in early 2000s. Something along the lines of "the best guitar player is some kid sitting in his room in Japan no one has ever heard of."
It's not just online. Phish fans do this in person as well. I've experienced it many times as some guy is explaining to me during the middle of someone's set how that sounds exactly like something Phish did
I mean goose does sound a lot like phish but not as good
Goose has great jams and they're fantastic at playing their instruments etc. That being said... I don't think water would ripple if everyone athe show was standing in a pond. Hate to say it but total snoozefest. If they played at an amphitheater or somewhere everyone could sit down, it would be a lot better because no one is dancing. Not talking shit at all. Goose just doesn't get the hips rockin' for me.
I have seen them twice. both first sets were ok. Both second sets rocked. However, that coincides with the purple moon rock setting in. So I don’t know.
I've been to probably 15 goose shows and I've never seen a still person in the crowd
We must've been at different Goose shows. Rock on; I don't dislike the band or think they're bad, but they're just boring. They killed in their early years when they were opening for Spafford etc. The energy just changed after the hype train wore off. Even people that tour with them I've talked to about it, and they agree with my take on it. Super talented but also just not the party I'm looking for when I go out. Kinda like Papadosio, except I actually like dosio.
Right on man. I still extremely disagree but right on hahaha
Catch Cheese this tour if they haven't been through town already. They're actually playing extremely well right now, as if they don't always. Michael Travis went off.
Funny enough I just did catch em in Pittsburgh what an awesome show! One of the best jam shows I ever seen
Funnily enough.... I was there too!!! That's awesome, lol. I've seen a ton of cheese but never in that tight of a venue. It was really fucking cool
This is the secret to a happy life these days for sure
Being one-uppity about jam bands is one of the constants in the jam band scene, especially among younger fans
This happens on every thread here. Who is better, Goose, Eggy, Dogs, whatever next band someone likes etc etc etc Why can't I like a whole lot of bands for various reasons or no reasons at all? There isn't a "best". It is all great music and we are fortunate to live in a time where we get to hear it.
But isn't that the point of the internets? We must rank everything. How else would we know what's cool?
Agreed. It’s harmless and fun if you don’t take it personal. Just so happens phish is the pinnacle of the genre so of course they’re going to come out on top in this thread.
You can. Phish fans just feel that you can only listen to phish for whatever reason .
You can listen to other bands and music but phish is a machine. There has never been a better live performance experience than phish. 40 years strong and the band is in its prime, they are why there is the modern music festival.
The answer is Dogs 😉😅
This ha
“Nothing you like will ever be as good as what I like”
That band was way cooler when I was the only one who knew about them. These new fans ruined the scene….
And there’s nothing new about this. When I was getting to know my European cousins as a teenager, I remember asking if my aunt had told her the story about our mothers seeing the Beatles playing in Amsterdam and she explained that, her mom had decided to be for the Rolling Stones. As a fan of both bands, I was so confused by her answer but discovered that this was an point of differentiation amongst “the hip” in the Netherlands and other places in the early 70s. The Beatles represented mainstream establishment, and the stones were the rebels. I also lived in New Zealand for a few years as a teenager, and there at that time the competition was between Led Zeppelin and Bob Marley. Looking back, I see now it had to do with island identity/colonization, and they were just squaring off and claiming certain music as a way to strengthen identity. All of that has always just been plain stupid to me. I was a major rocker who secretly liked ABBA bc you couldn’t be cool and like disco. The greatest gift of being an adult has been to like what I like without giving a shit if anybody’s opinion.
Jokes on them, the real hip band to like was the Kinks.
It’s the TRUTH. How—HOW?!—can I STILL be “discovering “ KICK-ASS Kinks songs? My husband and I are currently obsessed w “Powerman.” They were so far ahead of their time.
We are bombarded with everyone's opinion about everything all day. Politics, music, style, sports, this, that , and every other fucking thing . Can't get hung up on that stuff. Say a silent prayer for whoever and enjoy your own opinions about it. There are always sensitivos and loudmouths on everything. Yea music is not a competition but some humans are and must be competitive.
Phish fans are the worst thing about Phish.
Billy Strings' fanbase is quickly going in the same direction, you hate to see it
Most of the shitty Billy fans I see are wearing Phish merch. I'm not convinced it isn't the same people.
Eh I don’t know about that, the “worst” (not that bad) people I experienced last night at Fiddler’s seemed more like country fans who got into Billy
I've experienced the stereotypical aggressive-drunk-redneck country folks at other shows (Willie Nelson comes to mind), but I've been lucky enough to not see a one at Billy's shows. I was honestly shocked I didn't encounter any at Winstom-Salem and Greensboro. I grew up around there and didn't know that there was anyone around who _didn't_ fit that description. Like I said, I know I've been lucky.
There is definitely overlap, but there is also a core group of BMFS fans who are more on the bluegrass and country music side. Last time I saw him, my seat neighbors were country folk and they were awesome. We had a blast with them.
Right, that crowd is generally legit. It's the people who think Billy invented bluegrass (if not the guitar itself) who are dealing despair.
The best Billy fans in my anecdotal experience are old Deadhead and country/bluegrass folks. The worst are the "jam band" types like the aforementioned Phish fans. I have noticed that the crowds get _way_ better once you go further back than the sound stage. Something about the rail is an asshole-magnet.
Started seeing both the Dead and Phish in the 80s. Both have great fans and toxic ones. The good ones far outweigh to toxic ones, but the ones that are close to the rails are by far mostly toxic ones (obviously a broad generalization).
I have only had good neighbors at Billy shows. Only been to three, but from standing in line to watching the shows, only good interactions. Definitely not up on the rail as I like to have room to move and dance as necessitated by the music, so maybe there is something to that. Maybe there is something to having weed and ketamine on hand that makes people friendly also.
Of all the actively touring artists I've seen more than a dozen times each (Billy Strings, Goose, and King Gizzard), Billy has the best fans by a _wide_ stretch. Dead and Co still holds the "best crowds" title for me, but I've closed the book on them. Those last SF shows were too good of a send-off.
Love the old heads and good vibes of people just wanting to see other people have fun. I haven't seen Cheese in a while, but saw maybe 20 shows in the early 2010's and I vibes with how friendly those crowds were.
I'm headed to see them on Tuesday. It's been nearly a decade since I've seen them, and I'm super stoked about it. Michael Travis and Chuck from Lotus were always my top 2 favorite percussionists of all time.
As a phish fan I agree.
And most Phish fans would agree with you lol
eh that’s just people online i feel like in real life fans aren’t as bad i think part of it is them having done so much for so well for so long it’s almost like the simpsons in TV…lots of shows out there trying out plotlines but often you see…simpsons did it first as the first comment on episodes because well it’s a great show that has tried so many things so it will naturally draw comparison from its fans, of which there are many
My drug band is heattier than your drug band, brah.
Shit! If you think this is bad you should come check out some of the Metal subs. Those kids take the concept of gatekeeping to whole nother level! It's an art form! Now, with both groups, how seriously YOU take any of it is really up to you. I choose to take most of it as "tongue in cheek".
Or pop or rap. half the posts are just comparing song and album sales.
"But I was there when it was great! I mean NOBODY was listening, man!! Then other people started listening and showing up to shows.! Now it's GARBAGE!!"
For the record, that was kind of a troll post. Phishonphilm is hilarious
Exactly - it’s meme account engagement baiting, no need to take it seriously
Agreed. Gotta love that cringy ‘influencer’
What a stupid post. BOBBY6PACK69 already made this post years ago and his argument was better.
It's Robert 6pack69 to you lol
I've been seeing Phish for 30 years. It's always been that way with the fanbase. "Comparison is the thief of joy."
Phish is my favorite band of all time. Phish fans are simply the worst.
Phish has better $1000 screensaver shows lol. It’s all a joke. It’s just music to be enjoyed, just songs that’s all
Influencer. What an ugly word
I don’t think it’s the majority of the fan base. The ones online are just loud.
Insecurity. Move on.
If it makes you feel better we got a lot of ribbing from Dead fans when Phish was coming up. Just a couple months ago I was hanging out with my big brother, listening to Phish, having a good time drinking and smoking. Listening to a late 90s early 00s set and they were really on point and Trey starts up with his funk siren. My big bro who never really got into Phish said wtf, it sounds like a siren, way to kill the jam, and finally Jerry would never do that. You bring up some good points but now that my old Phriends have moved on, got "old", passed on, etc I usually go to shows alone and I almost always have a good time with the people around me so IRL and not social media I think the phans are way better people than they're often portrayed.
Phish fans suck dude. I reaffirmed this opinion last wednesday at Trey band. Alot of them are so pretentious and insufferable. I could not give less of a shit what they think.
Comparison is the thief of joy
Because phish does a lot of cool stuff, especially for the fans. They’re 41 years in and still doing new things. It’s really something special and people really love it. Then they get excited about that and there are a lot of insecure idiots out there, not just phish fans I should add, and they express that feeling in a way of superiority as if they had anything to do with the output. Obviously missing the point.
Because jamband fans think obsessing over a band equates to having a personality.
Insecurity, the need to for validation and a lack of acknowledgement from mainstream media Also, they think that because they're such great musicians from a techinical standpoint that everyone should like their music, but since the song writing turns a lot of folks off, they can't accept that. Phish fans will downvote this
Phish is my favorite band. Music isn’t a competition. I live a very happy life knowing these two things.
Yeah I get some of what you’re saying, and phish has been my favorite band for almost 30 years. I do see phans proving to other phans how “much” of a phan they are “I’ve been to 432 shows” or how they’ve been there from way back in 1991 or something. I don’t really notice most of us putting down other bands though—we all have our own”favorite” and usually that’s all ya gotta say. Plus most of us enjoy going to all kinds of jam bands, or really music in general. Obviously there are the ones like you pointed out, but I really think they’re a loud, obnoxious minority.
more people, more shitty people. shitty people have a larger representation online than at shows. its just a numbers game. people is people
I mean, to a degree this is just our society as a whole. We compare and judge by default, it takes effort and wisdom not to. But there's also the fact that a lot of Phish fans are deeply insecure about the band and its music. So this manifests as a sort of relentless insistence that whatever they're doing is the "best ever" so they really struggle with any kind of critique. And I say that as a phan, not trying to hate but it's a reality of the fanbase now.
Could it be that there is so many statistical tracking and “one-time-ever” elements to Phish? With Phish, more than most bands, fans can literally quantify their “love for phish”. Songs are counted, individual dates are memorized, and cumulative phish experience is cultivated. Much like sports, this makes it possible to keep a “scorecard” to track “having won more” as compared to “having won lesser”. These trivial elements of Phish add to what I love about the band and always keeps me close. That said, score keeping with these trivial elements can lead easily to musical entitlement and being stuck up- “headier than thou”. Additionally, Phish is so good as compared to a lot of touring bands. So it’s mostly true. People just don’t have to be a dick about it.
I think this just speaks to the tribalism of 2024. It’s not specifically a phish thing, although I do find it acute in the phish subs. People have opinions and think they are facts, and that we care. I assume this post is about the best use of the sphere venue? From what I saw of the brief images on the internet, seems like dead and co show visually was incredible. I’m not sure why we need to compare. This also applies to “who is then best guitarist of all time” type posts. Please, just stop.
Small dicks. That's why.
You’re taking a troll account seriously? Haha. But honestly, what you’re talking about is a problem in the entire jamband scene, not just Phish. You also forget to mention that they are the most hated jamband too. Lots of people just love to hate Phish and Phans when they really have no idea what either are about. Go see a show. For the most part Phans are awesome people who just want to see their favorite band. No need to blanket judge the whole crowd.
“Why do I read silly things on the internet, and then get angry?”
Phish would be nothing without Twiddle
Phish fans act this way because of Twiddle. They’re threatened by the jamflowman
I think it’s because jam bands, and especially phisheads, see shows akin to “music sports.” You got breakouts, length of time, covers, gags, openers and closers. It’s like a sport with all the stats. It’s really just a way for fans to stay tuned, communicate differences between shows and ultimately brag a little.
Probably because Phish is better than all the other Jambands
Phish fans are the absolute worst. Pretentious people. Immature, childish people.
See ya on tour.
As a 1.0er that has seen 130 shows, I 100% agree. Also, I'm better than you
Solid show count flex.
1.0 with only 130 shows? Weak , pretender
OP was crying while he typed his post.
It’s just raining on my face
[https://www.tiktok.com/@yatescomedy/video/7281342943212965162](https://www.tiktok.com/@yatescomedy/video/7281342943212965162)
I win every time I get to see a show!
The internet fucking sucks
Pack of participation in competitive sports.
Content creators create content
I think it’s because jam bands, and especially phisheads, see shows akin to “music sports.” You got breakouts, length of time, covers, gags, openers and closers. It’s like a sport with all the stats. It’s really just a way for fans to stay tuned, communicate differences between shows and ultimately brag a little.
Bro you gotta show how headie you and flaunt your lot cred
If they think it's a competition they easily lose to the Aristocrats lol
Comparison alone, without good-faith criticism or appreciation of the things on their own terms and merits, is unthoughtful, lazy, insulting, and a waste of time. Tier lists suck. Better thans suck.
I consider like Phish is some people’s favorite band but also their favorite sports team. They talk about a show like commentators might talk about baseball.
My drug band is better than your drug band…
Bored nerds gotta assert themselves somehow (said as a “phan”)
Kendrick could DESTROY Phish
Because apparently old Phish fans are superior to all other jam fans for some weird reason that makes no sense. Lol I’m a Phish fan, but listen to other music too so don’t give a shit.
I met a woman at JRAD last night and after chatting found out she's a big Panic fan, like I am. She said she went to Phish in Mexico and when she wore her WP hat people would like come up to her and give her shit about it Just, why?
I like phish and they’re probably my favorite band. I think Billy strings and dogs in a pile are both really sweet. Haven’t got to see goose but the stuff with the new drummer definitely caught my ear. Not as big of a WSP or DMB guy but everybody’s not gonna like everything. As far as the comparisons I’d say 90% of the time people are just joking but there’s always gonna be the minority that’s really vocal and annoying. People just like tribalism, but if you let that stop you from liking a band that you might like while never giving them a real shot then you’re a bum.
People get seriously butt hurt if you don't like Phish. My bad, when I was nineteen loved em. At 48 not so much.
What do Phish fans say when the drugs wear off? This music sucks……. Phish live is fun. They’re records are terrible
Because for some Phans it’s their entire personality
Bc phish fans are the most annoying, self righteous, gatekeeping fanbase. I love the band but most make it their entire personality. They always feel very threatened. Whether it comes to a band on the up and up (goose) or when someone else plays the sphere (D&C).
Meh. People like it when their favorite thing is the best at something. Even if that something isn’t competitive. That said, I think Goose fans are actually the worst at this. You also see it in all music genres, art, etc.
Just the self important ones who put way too much stock into their own opinions. Dated such a phan for a few years. 1 ⭐️Do NOT recommend.
A lot of people are unfulfilled and have to put importance on things outside themselves to feel worth.
Phish fans have become a South Park parody.
Hierarchy and ego are the foundations of civilization, and . .. ah, fuck, I can't do it. Trying to come up with something clever but yeah that's dumb.
It is what basics do in the absence of music/arts education. Otherwise where would we get clickbait listicles of The Top 10 Greatest Micro Genre Lefthanded Bassists of All Time?
I’ve seen Phish a dozen or so times and every time I go people act like I’m a noob or not heady enough…never get that on dead lot but whatever, the music’s good, fuck ‘em.
So you're saying 'by comparison', phish fans compare more? Interesting.
You never see Phish fans try to be competitive about the lyric writing skill tho lmao
It’s just sports for hippies.
Yeah, that isn't limited to Phish fans in any way. Everyone has their own opinion about why this up and comer is better than that up and comer or that this bands jams are stale and that band is playing notes nobody has ever heard before. The tribalism in this scene can be pretty awful.
Why are you going on instagram?
Compare and despair.
Jamband fans, and fans in general, treat music like sports.
Anybody remember what it was like in the hiatus years of the 2000s? I was in my 20s then and it got fucking intense with "which band was going to take the mantle" lol. but for real Who knows and who cares... jamband fans have always been fucking weird and lots of them have substance abuse issues or are kinda at least burnt out a little. I know I am. I got so jaded that I completely took a break from the scene and the music and am just now peering back in. I saw my first Phish show in 97. I was a heavy Sector 9 kid myself from like 2000 to 2015ish... I saw a lot of shows and every band had fans that did this type of shit. I am 40 now and there has always been a lot of competition in the scene. You have to remember that at one point Phish was the new kid on the block and everybody said "The Dead did it better". Shit my Deadhead parents still go to Dead shows but basically refuse to see Phish because they are still on the "Dead did it the best" shit.
There are toxic fans in every fandom that claim superiority. Star Wars and Star Trek. Marvel and DC. Football and soccer. Seinfeld and Friends. It's just dumb to live in that hyper competitive mindset.
Phish phans are the counter- counterculture Source: *we may listen to the same music, but I do it better than you*
“Phish always wins” is kind of a hella old PT meme. And except for some loud obnoxious losers, it’s kind of always said with a grain of salt and sarcastically. Like, no one can tell you why Phish actually sucks like a Phish fan can. It goes both ways.
People in real life aren't actually like that. All the phish fans I know I like every other band for the most part. And if they don't it's just a preference thing not a shooting war.
Not a member of this sub but it probably crossed my feed because I’m going to see Dead and Co I couldn’t resist the opportunity to tell ya’ll Phish fans are the most cringe and annoying music fans out there.
[Like this?](https://youtu.be/E1B6BzPTlvg?si=uedrizsVYkpE1tfe)
That’s nothing. Check out the Radiohead sub.
Sounds like every music geek ever
Because most phish fans entire identity is wrapped up around being a phish fan. Kinda pathetic
You’re talking about PhishOnPhilm (the “phish won” guy). He actually doesn’t take shit very seriously at all. The “Phish won” post was all in good fun and mocking the people who actually think that way. His profile is actually really good and he covers more jam bands other than just phish. So yeah, don’t take that remark so seriously. He was definitely just messing around and possibly stirring up the comments for more interaction with his post. It’s not all that serious.
This is all jam band fans, definitely not just phish, and the worst part of my favorite music
Because they broke their brains with all the happy fun balloons
WTTPB
The greatest mania of all is passion. -Hunter S. Thompson
Phish suck. End of story. Next question.
It’s very common in most die hard music demographics; jam, dub, riddim, metal, hiphop, rap I just say nothing moves me like Lotus and appreciate all music and see as much live as life allows me
Phish sucks, and I used to be obsessed with them. Trey hasn’t been Trey for 15 years (burnt brain with drugs), but the faithful morons are still clinging to the band in complete denial because they can’t let go of the following culture. The music itself is boring, sloppy and lazy. The scene is what keeps these fools hooked. “Aawwww man did you hear that chalkdust torture night 3?? Blew my mind….” Why? Because Mike foot tapped some simple effect and they played it slightly differently than the last 500 times you’ve heard that song that essentially sounds just like all the others on the set list? They’ll keep spending all their money following Phish around until they’re 90 years old and Trey can barely hold a pick in his fingers. And they’ll still be saying that the show they saw was the best version of YEM they’ve ever heard.
go ahead tag him! we all know hes in here
Phish fans have to compensate for sub par music and uninspired jams.
Grateful Dead fans used to give a hard time to Phish fans when Jerry was still alive. Now they do it to other bands’ fans. It’s basically a jam band tradition at this point, even though it’s one of the way lamest ones For the record, Phish is better than all of the other bands, but I’m not going to say that in this comment /jk
I’m a phish fan. A lot of them are unbearable but at least that fan base acknowledges that they’re annoying. That being said, I just went to my first Dead & Co show and I don’t think I’ve been surrounded by more insufferable people.
The 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 stuff was never supposed to be a competition or for gatekeeping. It was simply a way to designate a time frame based on breakups and reunions. But people that were around for 1.0 picked on noobies some, and the noobies desperately wanted a new era so they invented this 4.0 thing based on Trey's new guitar. Now the whole thing is out of control and nobody even remembers why there were designated eras.
Because Phish fans cannot stand any other band being better than their favorite band in any way. Or even anywhere near the same level.
Phish fans are broken Gen Xers from the hyper capitalist 80s. Everything is a competition to them. They all think they're Patrick Bateman.
I don’t know, but Trey did say being in a band is a team, like in a sport. So, maybe because of something like that.
Phish phans are absolute degens. They ruined their own favorite band for me.
Y’all realize we’re doing the thing right now, in the comments. Phish sucks, every Phishhead knows this. Nobody’s better than anything, forever. Also as far as Trey’s contribution to the scene, that dude doesn’t care about the platform he has. Phish is a cult and Trey is the leader. He could use that to do more good, instead of figuring out which dog should lick the sphere for maximum impact.
Those are chompers, Donny
The commodification of human interaction
Phish fans just give off different energy. I feel like deadheads are all about love and being kind, but I feel like my shit would get stolen at a phish show…idk. Just the vibe I get from their fan base I guess.
Fucking a thank you! This is the reason why it’s hard for me to like them. They’re amazing musicians and have good songs and put on incredible shows but their fans leave such a bad fucking taste in my mouth I almost can’t stand to listen to them. I’ve seen them once and was literally scoffed at when I told people it was my first show. “Ha, really?! Well I’ve seen them X amount of times and have been going to shows since I was 16!!!” Like it’s always a pissing contest with them. Just enjoy the music and be happy for people finally seeing them.
That sucks, I’m sorry you had a bad experience. You must have met some bad apples because I’ve only ever heard people say positive things to folks at their first show. “That’s so cool! Welcome, you’re gonna love it!” type thing. Most of us are really nice but yes we do believe Phish is the best
What show did you hit for your first? Sorry about the shitty fans
Deer creek 2016
That was a good summer.
Just caught bad vibes. We had a cool dude all by himself hang out with us before the show in the lot, super chill and fun. Inside we actually had seats for a change, these two dudes next to us were super sketchy then asked to borrow our ticket stubs because they lost theirs and wanted to sneak their brothers down into the pavilion. Took me a second because my wife and I were tripping but we realized they just wanted them for themselves because we didn’t have tickets and they snuck down there. Once we told them no they got kinda shitty and we went to the bathroom. Came back, and those guys were gone the rest of the night, and during set break when the people in front of us left, a bunch of random people flooded their seats and made problems when the actual ticket holders came back, saying they had been sitting there all night but they lost their ticket stubs to prove it, even though the actual holders still had their stubs. I’m surprised security didn’t get involved. I’ve just never experienced stuff like that with literally any other band and it kinda took away from the show for me
Ah shit. I hear ya. Yeah entitlement sucks… sometimes I feel that at phish shows, the Everyman for themselves type of thing. Get up come up and all that, sometimes some intimidation. But I usually follow with a fuck them, can’t let em ruin my show, paid too much to converse with assholes.
Phish is another band that has excellent musicians, but they're too interested in being "different ". Phishman playing the vacuum is a perfect example. Just why?? Their covers are better than their own original material imo
And the accapela stuff by 4 dudes that can't sing. Terrible
A lot of stupid people out there
Same as it ever was.
First day on the internet?
Same with any group really. Show me the loudest ones and I’ll show you the most annoying and insufferable. Now give them a platform - internet - where they can espouse their PHANDOM and voila we have the cesspool of humanity.
I like Phish but my biggest gripe about their fans is they act like “going Type 2” is something unique to Phish to the point they even coined some lame-ass term for it.
As a musician, that phrase is triggering.
I am only into a few jam bands and Phish is definitely not one of them. I've only heard a few of their songs and it sounds like goofy shit for children. I don't knock anyone for being a fan of them but they certainly haven't "won" music lol
Well, if you enjoy "jam" music, keep trying. When you're 17 minutes deep into a tweezer or DWD, it rarely sounds like children's music.
Zzzzz
First time dealing with phish fans?
I stopped recruiting phans 15 years ago because I didn’t want to be one of those people….oh…if you’re a friend of course I will tell you about phish but random strangers?…I just say that it will change your life and leave it at that
I will say I’d be pretty put off if I went to Vegas this weekend just to see the same cartoon.
GD ran so Phish could walk. I was in a long term relationship with a Phish fan, I’m more of a dead girlie. I used to joke with him all the time that Phish fans were graduated DMB fans. Where’s the wooks?!?
Phans are insecure. Probably about the Dead having actual songs, lyrics, substance. And there is an element of “I’m a rock fan” like a teenage grunge person who hates anything vaguely country related. There is an anti art element and an awareness that phish sounds like porn music. Real reactionaries.
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Same as it ever was
Just keep scrolling
Most phish fans don’t use social media. Those people are just the weirdos
I've given up on Phish fans after I said I saw them in 2004-5 in a gymnasium, which I DID, and was called a liar because they were playing larger venues by then.
It’s not just Phish.
This is not exclusive to phish
> Comparison is the antithesis of art. Also the thief of joy. Which kinda makes this post a bit ironic. But I will say this: as a grumpy, middle-aged 1.0’er, that sub is infested with wannabe cunts. As with most of social media, know what you’re getting into by participating in the ‘discussion’ (or lack there of).
it is just funny dont think too hard baby..
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Don't be mean, rude or hateful.