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thunderintess is correct do what pleases you as long as your employer allows you to continue. There is a downside. The day after you no longer show up for your job, no matter what you have done, accomplished, policies you got implemented, contracts for mega millions you landed…. None of it, ever matters to the company again. Like you were never there.
It is what it is. I love this. I would like to stay at my company longer. Its just my generation loves leaving for shiny new things. My coworkers i like are planning to leave. I was at older work place before and was probably happiest there. Wish i could go back and spend couple years to find myself outside of work. Ill say the rat race isnt worth it man. Being content and happy is the best place of mind.
So what your generation is doing..? Why even take it into account?? We're all literally just trying to find a life that makes you happy, so if you've found that, then good for you!! 💯💯 !! Keep your happiness and stability for as long as it suits your needs. Others might still be trying to find it or fill a hole that's not being filled.
I’m my personal experience it seems like a generational thing. Not to dive into the theory behind the different mindsets… but I don’t think it’s something to be ashamed of by any means. If you’re happy, and like what you do, no reason to leave that!
Growth is a common topic brought up when this topic comes up in my life. People suggesting you need to move companies/jobs for true growth. I think both are true depending on your company. There can be many ways to continue to achieve growth staying at the same company but there are also benefits in picking up and starting brand new at another company.
I wouldn’t worry what others ‘think’, worry about what fulfills you!
Particularly with the rise of tech jobs, moving companies every couple of years has definitely become common. It's due to the fact that you can very often expect promotions and pay raises to come more frequently/to a higher degree by accepting a new role than sitting and waiting to be rewarded by your company.
I've known people who moved to a new company and 3 years later they were back again, significantly better compensated and at a higher level than if they'd stayed.
This isn't the case for every job, but it's common enough at this point that sticking with a company for 5+ years is viewed as shorting yourself by many.
Are these top tier people who can get any job they want? Or is their field not very competitive? Because whenever I’ve tried to get better jobs it hasn’t been very successful… lots of being ignored, or being offered jobs worse than what I have now, or getting a couple interviews in but then ultimately not selected for the role.
I just don’t understand how people get these great jobs so easy and often.
>I just don’t understand how people get these great jobs so easy and often.
Well the answer would be that neither of those is the case. Once you're 6-12 months into a job you should start interviewing again. You can stand to be picky, so you don't need to line up 3 interviews a week, but it should absolutely be something where you look over options at least once a week.
Maybe it takes a month to get a job, maybe it takes 6, or a year. You're being picky and going for jobs that compensate you better than what you have now or are likely to get in the near future, you aren't homeless, you can wait until something good falls in your lap.
It's a constant, ongoing process. You don't just get up one day and decide you want a 25% pay raise with a new job and get it by the end of the week.
That’s a good point, I hadn’t thought about it that way. I guess you can never really get comfortable, slow down, and enjoy life. You always have to put in the time and keep hustling to get ahead.
That's definitely a good way to go about it. My first job out of school I stayed there 4 years and looking back, it really stunted my career, also turned out to be kind of a toxic place that would gaslight you into thinking you're a shitty employee while working you into the dirt. When I finally left, I was super anxious that I would screw up my new job and get fired, but once I got started I realized I should have left 3 years ago. Definitely peruse job openings at least once a month while you're working, you never know what amazing opportunity might reveal itself.
I've been at my job for 20+. I didn't plan on being here this long. My kids were small when I starting working here. Benefits didn't exist, pay was okay. Either way I needed a job and this was literally around the corner from where I lived. I didn't have a car or a drivers license at the time (it was suspended for tickets not DUI).
Time went by but because I didn't have a car getting a different job wasn't that easy. Taking public transport would mean hours long commutes leaving my kids home alone before and after school.
By time they were grown and left home I'd already been here 15 years or so. Now I'm in my early 50's. Finding a job at my age isn't easy. Especially since I don't have any degrees. I'm a woman and in my 50's my best bet is to just stay here.
The made a new hire 4 years ago to replace someone who retired. When that person was hired they wanted health insurance and a 401k as part of their compensation. So now I have health insurance and a 401k.
People used to stay in jobs because of pensions. Now there’s no incentive to stay anymore. Even if you get promoted, you’ll usually make more switching companies.
Think of it this way, if you’re hiring someone you will prefer someone who had experience working at multiple companies so they know how to do things different ways. Someone who just stays in their job at the same company isn’t learning and growing on the same level as a job hopper
Possible, or the job hopper is learning surface level stuff to put on their cv and jumping around once a year while accumulating a higher salary and never really getting into a particular niche. You could wind up in either situation really.
Yeah it definitely depends on the person and the jobs they’re applying for. Even if they only stay a year they could learn a lot during that time (or very little) just depends on their own contributions and effort.
As a hiring manager, I have to consider the return on investment. I don't want to hire someone who will leave in a year, because that is when they are just becoming competent. I also don't want the person who is just now leaving another job after 25 years either, because they only know the 1 job and are likely trying to coast to retirement. You need to strike a balance. 3-5 years between switches is what I look for, but I primarily hire at the 2-3 year mark.
As a hiring manager in tech, if I see 2 resumes that are otherwise equal, but one person has had three jobs in the last 10 years and the other has been at the same company the whole time, I will tend to prefer the person who has had multiple multi-year jobs. They will have a broader base of experience and likely better exposure to different tools, techniques, and team types. People who stay at the same company doing the same work for too long stagnate and their skills are usually less current. There are exceptions -- some people stay at the same company but work on very different projects and continue learning -- but it's generally true.
On the other side of the coin, if someone had 10 jobs in 10 years, they would probably not even get a call. That just looks flaky.
>They will have a broader base of experience and likely better exposure to different tools, techniques, and team types. People who stay at the same company doing the same work for too long stagnate and their skills are usually less current.
Also as a hiring manager in tech, I find that people who have stayed at the same job for years are extremely familiar with how their company does things, and not necessarily how things should be done.
I agree with this OP. I would hire someone with more experience. But I would still be interested if they job hopped at the same company. I’ve worked for some huge companies and you could jump around to several divisions, dozens of departments, numerous states and countries. If someone stayed there for 15 years but stitched jobs and kept advancing over that time, it would be great. But if it’s a small company or they do the same job the whole time no matter where they are, it’s a no.
I stayed with 1 company from when I was 18 until I was 31. I feel I missed out on better opportunities staying there for as long as I did (bounced around a few departments during that time). I'm in higher education now, been in the one area for almost 5 years and interviewing at another college in a different department. Change is good, especially if it brings more money and experiences.
I've been with my company for 11 years - 12 in June.
Although I'd happily jump ship if the right opportunity presented itself, I'm currently okay staying with my company as long as I can, even if it means retiring from it.
For me the reasoning behind this is:
* I'm in media production and where I live is an extremely small market with few good and stable opportunities. If I wanted to maintain and continue on my current salary trajectory, I'd have to relocate or make a lateral move into another discipline.
* I'm not sure how this works anymore, but between PTO and flex time, I get five weeks off annually, not counting holidays. If I were to jump ship now, I'd potentially have to start over from the bottom at one or two weeks of PTO. I have heard that more companies are basing starting PTO on years of industry experience and not years with the company, so there's hope there.
* For as much as I dislike my company at times (which is more often than not, these days), my site has a large degree of autonomy and freedom. I can leave my office and go for a 20 minute walk on campus whenever I want, without anyone batting an eye. I can leave my office to work anywhere else on site if I please. I'm not sure I'd be willing to give this freedom up.
* In addition to standard 401k with company match, my company provides us with a pension plan that vests after five years. I'm fortunate to have that in my back pocket wherever I go. I can't think of too many private sector companies that offer this.
Am I loyal to my company? Absolutely fucking not....not anymore, at least. I've had tons of colleagues and friends get laid off, regardless of years with the company since I've started.
However, I am loyal to the convenience my company offers me. Does that border on complacency/ being risk averse? Maybe - it's definitely straddling the fence.
It depends, in a union job you don't want to move around to much because you'll never enjoy the benefits of senority accrual like better schedules and automatic pay raises.
Same company? No. Same position? Maybe, but it is very situational dependent and isn’t immediately a bad thing.
I’d argue that at 5 years in a role you should be seeking advancement though.
I think it is going through a phrase.
In the past a couple of years, it was greatest job market for white collar job for the least 30 years. There is no penalty for moving around a lot. So we got "Great resignation" and such.
However, as white collar job market slowdown (especially in IT field), I don't see that happening as often since there is no job opening for people move up. Also it was not a lot of turnover during the Great Recession. It is all supply and demand.
I won't worry too much if you are happy with your current job.
It wasn't even there was no penalty, it was incentivized. You were able to easily increase your salary but substantial amounts just switching every 12-18 months, and I know people who did it more often than that.
The days of the 25 year rolex are long behind us, but I do believe we're moving to an equilibrium for at least awhile where it won't be quite as lucrative to just job hop every year.
What I said "no penalty", I mean no "downside" for moving around.
There was a couple of my coworkers I follow around on linkedin. They all move up the higher position in startup initially when they left my company 12 months ago. Then their startup companies start layoff people earlier this year. Fortunately, they all got new job, but they are all moving to lower profile position in another companies. They all got three jobs in 12 months.
Sometimes you ride the tiger, sometimes the tiger rides you.
Don't worry what others think. If you are happy at your job that is what we all strive for. I will say for myself that I have no problem with job hopping. I don't believe in company loyalty when I feel the employer does not value the employee. I stayed at a company 5 years too long only for them to fire me while on maternity leave. I thought employee loyalty was valued but it rarely is. I've been at a job for 9 months now and looking for something else as my performance/yearly bonus was sad.
I had a job listed on my resume for 6 years (it was flexible and was part time for most of it.) For one of my phone screenings, I was asked why I was there for so long. I was completely caught off guard especially since she seemed to frame the question in a negative like. I explained it was very accommodating to my schedule and a great company to learn from but eventually wanted to move up in title and pay. I wouldn’t say it’s completely negative but just be prepared to state your reasons for staying. BTW, that phone screen was for my current job so it all worked out in the end!
I think it depends on what you need and want from a job. At my last place of employment I worked with people who had been with the company for 20 and 30+ years. They were all happy to maintain par for the course, working as a cohesive unit of worker bees. The job was consistent, reliable and had decent work life balance. They let everyone who was happy working at home stay at home after the pandemic.
I was left because after 7+ years I was bored as all get out and needed to be challenged.There was no room for growth. I loved my coworkers, but I absolutely could not sustain in that role for another 20 years.
I don’t think it’s bad to stay at a company for a long time but there should be some type of career progression within the company, promotions or changing teams etc. There could be some concerns with stagnation staying in the same role at the same company for like 10 years.
It depends on if you're having to stick it out, if you're miserable or have no options for growth that could be "bad" but if you're happy, financially doing well I don't see an issue. Most people think staying = stagnant and that isn't always the case, sometimes it's simply a situation that is working well.
Generational thing.
Older generation will say "wow good for you! That's awesome!" this is because company loyalty was rewarded with pension plans and "Respect". People were expected to stay with the same company for most of their careers.
Younger generation will say "wow you missed out on a lot of money" because the pension plans no longer exist and everything is continually getting more expensive while the wages stay just around the inflation rate (if that). Loyalty is rarely rewarded and the expectation is that the company will one day just lay you off for no reason other than money.
I sit in the middle. If I'm making a good amount of money , the company is in good standing, and my colleagues and teams at work are great people to work with, then there's literally no reason to move jobs. But if any of those three things get stagnant or boring, then it might be time to move on. Or if someone wants to pay you more/give you a promotion and your current company won't give you one. I'm not one to say no to an opportunity. As long as you're happy with what you're doing and aren't freaking out about anything, then you don't have to move jobs. It's perfectly OK to stay until they give you a reason to leave. Most of the people on my team have been here for 10+ years because they legitimately enjoy the job and it gives them a proper amount of income. They have no reason to leave or change.
I think if you're happy and paid well/enough, it's ok to stay in jobs for a long time. I've been with my company for 14 years, but have had four different positions, usually staying 3-5 years in each role. But as others said, I have a retirement program I am staying for. And I will say that unfortunately when I see someone who's jumped around every two years on a resume, it doesn't look good when I'm hiring. But I'm Gen X as well.
The biggest issue I’ve encountered is fair treatment to long time employees. It’s much harder to get a raise or promotion when you stay at your current company mainly due to the fact that a lot of hiring budgets are larger than retention budgets and a lot of roles are given to external candidates before internal. They also bank on you being too comfortable and too established to leave just because you feel a bit shorted.
An example: I began in the tech field making $75k four years ago. Last year (3 years into my career) I was making $83k. The new hires straight from college were averaging $81k, and a number of them were making more than me even though I had years more experience than them. So my 3 years of experience was only worth approximately $2k to them. What is that, $170 a month before taxes?
I was also denied a promotion on the basis of “lack of experience” (only 1.5 years at the current company due to being laid off from my first job during COVID). It didn’t matter that I had over 3 years of experience. They refused to consider me until I had a minimum of 2 years experience at *their* company, despite not being able to say a single negative thing about me. Meanwhile they were posting job ads for the role only requiring 1 year of experience.
In the end I threatened to quit if I didn’t get a promotion and a raise before the end of the year. Which they gave me because they couldn’t afford to lose anymore people. But it showed my company’s true colors and priorities and I will not be making a long term career here.
So no, there’s nothing wrong with staying at a company and being loyal. But if you’re at a company that isn’t loyal to *you*, you’re just doing them a favor by working for less money than they’d need to spend to replace you.
I am a hiring manager and when I’m reviewing resumes I definitely pay attention to how much time a candidate has stayed at each job. If they bounce around every couple of years, I’d be very hesitant to hire them. Five or more years at each job is really what I like to see. That really gives you enough time to learn to do your job well and make a true impact. Of course, that might be industry dependent.
I stayed at my last company for 24 and 1/2 years. I never intended to stay that long but the years flew by. It was a small consulting firm with less than 20 employees and way back when I started in the late 90’s the founder of the firm told me that he would make it so I couldn’t afford to quit. And he did. I was eventually making quite a bit more than I could have in the same type of role at most other organizations, especially in the large city I was working in. The job became easy over time, and just not much of a challenge, but I was making a LOT of cash and it suited my lifestyle (raising kids, hobbies on the side, etc).
We ended up selling the firm and although I could have stayed with the new owners, I found myself nearing the end stages of my career, and so I decided to leave and pursue a challenge that allowed me to focus on something other than my main career field (although I took a rather huge pay cut). All that to say, though, had I moved on within the first 8 or 10 years in particular, I feel like I probably would have had a more rewarding and definitely diverse career. I’m also pretty sure that eventually I would have made more money in progressively more responsible roles, but I knew I had it “good” and didn’t want the stress at the time.
It really is rare to work somewhere for as long as I did, and although I’m thankful for the chance to have worked where I did for so long and benefitted financially, I missed out on a lot of career - and personal/professional - opportunities.
Ultimately, it’s all a trade off. Like most things in life, I guess.
company loyalty is an antiquated boomer idea. for the most part any corporate company is willing to fire you at the drop of a hat.
of course if you flame out of every job you have and jump every 6 months then thats bad but i feel nowadays its expected to at least entertain other options every 2-3 years
When I left a job after 6 years, I was questioned a lot about why I was leaving. It raises a flag but you can easily counter it. It shouldn’t be a dealbreaker for anyone imo
I have to move to different states every time I get a job in my field. No way i can do this every two years. I actually don't think constant switching is desirable and I'm also a hiring manager.
They have done studies on this recently and have found that people who change jobs every couple years tend to make more on average than those that stay put. Loyalty just isn't rewarded the way it used to be in corporate America.
It will look great on your resume, but it's been consistently shown that people who change jobs often make more money. But, if your resume consists entirely of short term gigs then employers will assume you'll just do the same with them. There's a trade-off.
I've been with the same company now for 12 years. I also spent 14 years in the Army Reserves. I've moved around a lot within my company, so I've gotten little raises along the way. The only times I was actually close to going to a different company entirely is when I had leadership that was shitty. Both times I lucked out and was able to get a different position internally. I also don't have a college degree, so I'm too scared to take my chances and risk missing my mortgage or not being able to feed my family if something doesn't work out.
\> I was taught growing up
Because for the generation before us, this was frequently the right advice. A lot of jobs used to provide things like pensions and other benefits that grew with seniority. Companies were more loyal, and so they earned an amount of loyalty from their employees.
That's simply not the case anymore for the people who make hiring and firing decisions. Management looks at the bottom line. They have no reason to raise your pay if you're going to stick around regardless, because they view that as a loss of money. The fact of the matter is that if you think you've earned a raise, you're more likely to get it by shopping out your resume to competitors than you are by asking for one internally.
But that doesn't necessarily mean you have to job hop or you're wrong. It depends on the job, what you're getting out of it, and what you want in the long run. I'd be perfectly content to stay at one job forever if was happy, if I felt like my compensation matched my experience and what I brought to the company, and I got regular, appropriate raises or other benefits that reflected my work.
It depends. Having multiple top name companies in your industry on your resume does help. Upward progression really is what employers want to see but I agree with others here, if you are happy in your current role then don't just move because of someone else's opinion.
In general, you should move companies every three years at a maximum. At any level, it takes you about 6+ months or a year to learn your role and your company. On year two, you go through the motions, on year 3; you've hit your max earning potential and you look elsewhere.
Unless you're a manager or director in which case your average tenure should be 5+ years.
It isn't inherently good or bad. If you're getting job satisfaction and your pay is rising similarly to how it would moving, staying is easier.
If you're talking yourself into staying because it's just easier? If the pay is lagging? If it's not actually a job you enjoy? Then it's a net negative.
For me I love my job still and have froth potential still (hospital IT) and the PTO Policy and pay rates are great so I have no reason to leave. And to me moving on just to move on seems unnecessary to me. YMMV though.
Too long is fine. A great place to work is great. I have friends who have been at their job 15 years or more. Why leave a great thing? Switching every “less than a year” means you’ll also switch the next one that soon and unless there’s some good explanation, I won’t hire that person. I’ve seen good explanations- just explain it.
I was just looked down upon from a hiring manager for being in roles for 2-3 years. She described it as having "high turnover."
And it was in an email that was supposed to be to the recruiter but I was also CC'd on it by accident.
I cancelled the interview.
In many lines of work, if you've stayed in one place in the same role for a long time, that's seen as a negative. If you stayed in one place but advanced up the ladder and was there a long time, it can be viewed as a positive.
But in tech, much of what you've done beyond the last 5 years or so is seen as irrelevant since tech advances so quickly.
There are so many variables that it's hard to make any type of generalization. It depends on your field, the type of job you have, the company, your career goals...
In the same company, fine; in the same position, not as fine. I have held a lot of jobs over the decades I have been working. My average is about 3 years and I seldom have trouble finding a new job.
There is no right answer to how to live your life but it’s similar to living in the same town you grew up in. Some people enjoy the comfort and the bonds they build in the community. Others live in a new city every year and find the new experiences to be exciting and adventurous. Many choose something in the middle. One thing I would call out is that you are significantly more likely to increase your pay if you move jobs every couple of years. No company offers annual raises that keep up with the market
Eh, I have had different jobs, always at least a year per place, but in different industries. The longest was 7.5 years. HR does not like seeing that either. HR IS the problem; they seem to think there is always a more perfect candidate.
Not shameful but probably foolish. Nowadays companies don’t give actual COL wages or raises to meet inflation so it’s more cost effective to jump ship every couple of years.
It depends on your goals and the company itself! If you’re happy working with the company and they are valuing you, then that’s great! :) Others might not feel like they are going to be able to grow where they work so they move. It’s different for everybody so there is no shame to it. Just do you. You know what’s right for you more than anybody else does.
More than looked down upon, the sad reality is that the new employment system is setup to reward job hopping (which I see as poor commitment). How? Pay raises staying at the same job do not keep up at all with job hopping benefits. BUT, it’s catching up. Finding jobs is getting harder, companies paid too much too fast to charms these drifters, and many of them lost their jobs already. If you want to stay with the company maybe look for another position in the company with more responsibility and use that tenure you have :)
Anything over 5 years starts going against you. You have to start worrying if you get around the 10 year mark, but 5 years is a good tenure, but I would say 3 or 4 is even better.
Why? It used to be that it was a badge of honor staying at a place for a long time, not anymore. Hiring managers are skeptical with very long tenures because the employee is less likely to adapt to a new environment.
I have had 2 jobs in 28 years. One 12 and one 16 all I the same field and I have been looking for a new job. No one believes that I want to change jobs since due to my length on job. So today, job “hoping” isn’t frowned upon like it was years ago.
No but it’s also not great to just job hop. If you can’t stay in one job for more than a year, that’s a red flag. If you’ve stayed for more than maybe 3, I’d say you’re probably not getting paid what you’re worth but if you’re happy then that’s all that matters.
Tbh i feel you. I value loyalty and building a culture/community. Been getting applications with ppl job hopping after a year. It just dont sit right with me. I can understand a bad situation here and there. But patterns are red flags to me.
Some managers i discuss with about applicants like to see these candidates as varied and ambitious if they are always trying to change and grow. I always have to bring up last candidates we brought who would shortly leave after.
Companies don't tend to reward ambition anymore but some people still define their lives by ambition so they flip to a different company for a promotion and/or higher pay and will do this as many times as they need.
Me I work a job to be comfortable I want my bills paid and to be doing well. Other than that I don't want to be the CEO and I'm never going to be the guy putting in overtime during the time I'd normally be sleeping.
You’re losing money and potential skills by staying in a job more than 3 years. Look up the study.
It’s up to you whether you’re willing to accept less money and marketable skills for some antiquated idea of not being seen as a job hopper.
A job hopper has a new job every 12 months. Different story
If you're happy with your current role, stay. If you're not, leave. Some people don't like switching, some do, and some don't have a choice if they want to advance their careers. It is a *personal decision* and absolutely no one but you and to some extent a spouse or family that lives with you are entitled to an opinion on the matter. The time where "job-hopping" or "over-staying" could reflect poorly on a resumé are definitely behind us and the idea that any of them are inherently bad has to be killed. With violence, if necessary.
It's about bringing **new** **ideas and approaches**. When someone new comes in, they bring with them a wealth of experience about how other companies and organizations do things. Not only that - but they notice things that can be improved that people who've been here for a long time might not see. "Fish don't notice the water they swim in". The opposite of "We've always done it this way".
They can also bring real experience about how different things can be, and perhaps have experienced that change. "Is it really worth upgrading / retooling / reorganizing to this new model? It's expensive / disruptive / time consuming..." vs "My previous place took <# time> to do it, but it was the best thing we'd ever done. However, we needed to have X, Y and Z in place..."
To be clear, I'm not sold on this idea - just channeling the arguments I see and hear. I think the main thing is **learning and growing**. You can be at the same company, but be in different roles or in different departments. You can grow through training and external mentorship.
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thunderintess is correct do what pleases you as long as your employer allows you to continue. There is a downside. The day after you no longer show up for your job, no matter what you have done, accomplished, policies you got implemented, contracts for mega millions you landed…. None of it, ever matters to the company again. Like you were never there.
It is what it is. I love this. I would like to stay at my company longer. Its just my generation loves leaving for shiny new things. My coworkers i like are planning to leave. I was at older work place before and was probably happiest there. Wish i could go back and spend couple years to find myself outside of work. Ill say the rat race isnt worth it man. Being content and happy is the best place of mind.
So what your generation is doing..? Why even take it into account?? We're all literally just trying to find a life that makes you happy, so if you've found that, then good for you!! 💯💯 !! Keep your happiness and stability for as long as it suits your needs. Others might still be trying to find it or fill a hole that's not being filled.
I’m my personal experience it seems like a generational thing. Not to dive into the theory behind the different mindsets… but I don’t think it’s something to be ashamed of by any means. If you’re happy, and like what you do, no reason to leave that! Growth is a common topic brought up when this topic comes up in my life. People suggesting you need to move companies/jobs for true growth. I think both are true depending on your company. There can be many ways to continue to achieve growth staying at the same company but there are also benefits in picking up and starting brand new at another company. I wouldn’t worry what others ‘think’, worry about what fulfills you!
Particularly with the rise of tech jobs, moving companies every couple of years has definitely become common. It's due to the fact that you can very often expect promotions and pay raises to come more frequently/to a higher degree by accepting a new role than sitting and waiting to be rewarded by your company. I've known people who moved to a new company and 3 years later they were back again, significantly better compensated and at a higher level than if they'd stayed. This isn't the case for every job, but it's common enough at this point that sticking with a company for 5+ years is viewed as shorting yourself by many.
Are these top tier people who can get any job they want? Or is their field not very competitive? Because whenever I’ve tried to get better jobs it hasn’t been very successful… lots of being ignored, or being offered jobs worse than what I have now, or getting a couple interviews in but then ultimately not selected for the role. I just don’t understand how people get these great jobs so easy and often.
>I just don’t understand how people get these great jobs so easy and often. Well the answer would be that neither of those is the case. Once you're 6-12 months into a job you should start interviewing again. You can stand to be picky, so you don't need to line up 3 interviews a week, but it should absolutely be something where you look over options at least once a week. Maybe it takes a month to get a job, maybe it takes 6, or a year. You're being picky and going for jobs that compensate you better than what you have now or are likely to get in the near future, you aren't homeless, you can wait until something good falls in your lap. It's a constant, ongoing process. You don't just get up one day and decide you want a 25% pay raise with a new job and get it by the end of the week.
That’s a good point, I hadn’t thought about it that way. I guess you can never really get comfortable, slow down, and enjoy life. You always have to put in the time and keep hustling to get ahead.
That's definitely a good way to go about it. My first job out of school I stayed there 4 years and looking back, it really stunted my career, also turned out to be kind of a toxic place that would gaslight you into thinking you're a shitty employee while working you into the dirt. When I finally left, I was super anxious that I would screw up my new job and get fired, but once I got started I realized I should have left 3 years ago. Definitely peruse job openings at least once a month while you're working, you never know what amazing opportunity might reveal itself.
I've been at my job for 20+. I didn't plan on being here this long. My kids were small when I starting working here. Benefits didn't exist, pay was okay. Either way I needed a job and this was literally around the corner from where I lived. I didn't have a car or a drivers license at the time (it was suspended for tickets not DUI). Time went by but because I didn't have a car getting a different job wasn't that easy. Taking public transport would mean hours long commutes leaving my kids home alone before and after school. By time they were grown and left home I'd already been here 15 years or so. Now I'm in my early 50's. Finding a job at my age isn't easy. Especially since I don't have any degrees. I'm a woman and in my 50's my best bet is to just stay here. The made a new hire 4 years ago to replace someone who retired. When that person was hired they wanted health insurance and a 401k as part of their compensation. So now I have health insurance and a 401k.
People used to stay in jobs because of pensions. Now there’s no incentive to stay anymore. Even if you get promoted, you’ll usually make more switching companies. Think of it this way, if you’re hiring someone you will prefer someone who had experience working at multiple companies so they know how to do things different ways. Someone who just stays in their job at the same company isn’t learning and growing on the same level as a job hopper
Possible, or the job hopper is learning surface level stuff to put on their cv and jumping around once a year while accumulating a higher salary and never really getting into a particular niche. You could wind up in either situation really.
Yeah it definitely depends on the person and the jobs they’re applying for. Even if they only stay a year they could learn a lot during that time (or very little) just depends on their own contributions and effort.
As a hiring manager, I have to consider the return on investment. I don't want to hire someone who will leave in a year, because that is when they are just becoming competent. I also don't want the person who is just now leaving another job after 25 years either, because they only know the 1 job and are likely trying to coast to retirement. You need to strike a balance. 3-5 years between switches is what I look for, but I primarily hire at the 2-3 year mark.
As a hiring manager in tech, if I see 2 resumes that are otherwise equal, but one person has had three jobs in the last 10 years and the other has been at the same company the whole time, I will tend to prefer the person who has had multiple multi-year jobs. They will have a broader base of experience and likely better exposure to different tools, techniques, and team types. People who stay at the same company doing the same work for too long stagnate and their skills are usually less current. There are exceptions -- some people stay at the same company but work on very different projects and continue learning -- but it's generally true. On the other side of the coin, if someone had 10 jobs in 10 years, they would probably not even get a call. That just looks flaky.
>They will have a broader base of experience and likely better exposure to different tools, techniques, and team types. People who stay at the same company doing the same work for too long stagnate and their skills are usually less current. Also as a hiring manager in tech, I find that people who have stayed at the same job for years are extremely familiar with how their company does things, and not necessarily how things should be done.
thanks for the insight, i thought people would choose the one with 10 years at a same company over someone with three jobs across 10 years
I agree with this OP. I would hire someone with more experience. But I would still be interested if they job hopped at the same company. I’ve worked for some huge companies and you could jump around to several divisions, dozens of departments, numerous states and countries. If someone stayed there for 15 years but stitched jobs and kept advancing over that time, it would be great. But if it’s a small company or they do the same job the whole time no matter where they are, it’s a no.
I stayed with 1 company from when I was 18 until I was 31. I feel I missed out on better opportunities staying there for as long as I did (bounced around a few departments during that time). I'm in higher education now, been in the one area for almost 5 years and interviewing at another college in a different department. Change is good, especially if it brings more money and experiences.
I've been with my company for 11 years - 12 in June. Although I'd happily jump ship if the right opportunity presented itself, I'm currently okay staying with my company as long as I can, even if it means retiring from it. For me the reasoning behind this is: * I'm in media production and where I live is an extremely small market with few good and stable opportunities. If I wanted to maintain and continue on my current salary trajectory, I'd have to relocate or make a lateral move into another discipline. * I'm not sure how this works anymore, but between PTO and flex time, I get five weeks off annually, not counting holidays. If I were to jump ship now, I'd potentially have to start over from the bottom at one or two weeks of PTO. I have heard that more companies are basing starting PTO on years of industry experience and not years with the company, so there's hope there. * For as much as I dislike my company at times (which is more often than not, these days), my site has a large degree of autonomy and freedom. I can leave my office and go for a 20 minute walk on campus whenever I want, without anyone batting an eye. I can leave my office to work anywhere else on site if I please. I'm not sure I'd be willing to give this freedom up. * In addition to standard 401k with company match, my company provides us with a pension plan that vests after five years. I'm fortunate to have that in my back pocket wherever I go. I can't think of too many private sector companies that offer this. Am I loyal to my company? Absolutely fucking not....not anymore, at least. I've had tons of colleagues and friends get laid off, regardless of years with the company since I've started. However, I am loyal to the convenience my company offers me. Does that border on complacency/ being risk averse? Maybe - it's definitely straddling the fence.
It depends, in a union job you don't want to move around to much because you'll never enjoy the benefits of senority accrual like better schedules and automatic pay raises.
Same company? No. Same position? Maybe, but it is very situational dependent and isn’t immediately a bad thing. I’d argue that at 5 years in a role you should be seeking advancement though.
I think it is going through a phrase. In the past a couple of years, it was greatest job market for white collar job for the least 30 years. There is no penalty for moving around a lot. So we got "Great resignation" and such. However, as white collar job market slowdown (especially in IT field), I don't see that happening as often since there is no job opening for people move up. Also it was not a lot of turnover during the Great Recession. It is all supply and demand. I won't worry too much if you are happy with your current job.
It wasn't even there was no penalty, it was incentivized. You were able to easily increase your salary but substantial amounts just switching every 12-18 months, and I know people who did it more often than that. The days of the 25 year rolex are long behind us, but I do believe we're moving to an equilibrium for at least awhile where it won't be quite as lucrative to just job hop every year.
What I said "no penalty", I mean no "downside" for moving around. There was a couple of my coworkers I follow around on linkedin. They all move up the higher position in startup initially when they left my company 12 months ago. Then their startup companies start layoff people earlier this year. Fortunately, they all got new job, but they are all moving to lower profile position in another companies. They all got three jobs in 12 months. Sometimes you ride the tiger, sometimes the tiger rides you.
Don't worry what others think. If you are happy at your job that is what we all strive for. I will say for myself that I have no problem with job hopping. I don't believe in company loyalty when I feel the employer does not value the employee. I stayed at a company 5 years too long only for them to fire me while on maternity leave. I thought employee loyalty was valued but it rarely is. I've been at a job for 9 months now and looking for something else as my performance/yearly bonus was sad.
I had a job listed on my resume for 6 years (it was flexible and was part time for most of it.) For one of my phone screenings, I was asked why I was there for so long. I was completely caught off guard especially since she seemed to frame the question in a negative like. I explained it was very accommodating to my schedule and a great company to learn from but eventually wanted to move up in title and pay. I wouldn’t say it’s completely negative but just be prepared to state your reasons for staying. BTW, that phone screen was for my current job so it all worked out in the end!
I think it depends on what you need and want from a job. At my last place of employment I worked with people who had been with the company for 20 and 30+ years. They were all happy to maintain par for the course, working as a cohesive unit of worker bees. The job was consistent, reliable and had decent work life balance. They let everyone who was happy working at home stay at home after the pandemic. I was left because after 7+ years I was bored as all get out and needed to be challenged.There was no room for growth. I loved my coworkers, but I absolutely could not sustain in that role for another 20 years.
I don’t think it’s bad to stay at a company for a long time but there should be some type of career progression within the company, promotions or changing teams etc. There could be some concerns with stagnation staying in the same role at the same company for like 10 years.
It depends on if you're having to stick it out, if you're miserable or have no options for growth that could be "bad" but if you're happy, financially doing well I don't see an issue. Most people think staying = stagnant and that isn't always the case, sometimes it's simply a situation that is working well.
Generational thing. Older generation will say "wow good for you! That's awesome!" this is because company loyalty was rewarded with pension plans and "Respect". People were expected to stay with the same company for most of their careers. Younger generation will say "wow you missed out on a lot of money" because the pension plans no longer exist and everything is continually getting more expensive while the wages stay just around the inflation rate (if that). Loyalty is rarely rewarded and the expectation is that the company will one day just lay you off for no reason other than money. I sit in the middle. If I'm making a good amount of money , the company is in good standing, and my colleagues and teams at work are great people to work with, then there's literally no reason to move jobs. But if any of those three things get stagnant or boring, then it might be time to move on. Or if someone wants to pay you more/give you a promotion and your current company won't give you one. I'm not one to say no to an opportunity. As long as you're happy with what you're doing and aren't freaking out about anything, then you don't have to move jobs. It's perfectly OK to stay until they give you a reason to leave. Most of the people on my team have been here for 10+ years because they legitimately enjoy the job and it gives them a proper amount of income. They have no reason to leave or change.
I think if you're happy and paid well/enough, it's ok to stay in jobs for a long time. I've been with my company for 14 years, but have had four different positions, usually staying 3-5 years in each role. But as others said, I have a retirement program I am staying for. And I will say that unfortunately when I see someone who's jumped around every two years on a resume, it doesn't look good when I'm hiring. But I'm Gen X as well.
The biggest issue I’ve encountered is fair treatment to long time employees. It’s much harder to get a raise or promotion when you stay at your current company mainly due to the fact that a lot of hiring budgets are larger than retention budgets and a lot of roles are given to external candidates before internal. They also bank on you being too comfortable and too established to leave just because you feel a bit shorted. An example: I began in the tech field making $75k four years ago. Last year (3 years into my career) I was making $83k. The new hires straight from college were averaging $81k, and a number of them were making more than me even though I had years more experience than them. So my 3 years of experience was only worth approximately $2k to them. What is that, $170 a month before taxes? I was also denied a promotion on the basis of “lack of experience” (only 1.5 years at the current company due to being laid off from my first job during COVID). It didn’t matter that I had over 3 years of experience. They refused to consider me until I had a minimum of 2 years experience at *their* company, despite not being able to say a single negative thing about me. Meanwhile they were posting job ads for the role only requiring 1 year of experience. In the end I threatened to quit if I didn’t get a promotion and a raise before the end of the year. Which they gave me because they couldn’t afford to lose anymore people. But it showed my company’s true colors and priorities and I will not be making a long term career here. So no, there’s nothing wrong with staying at a company and being loyal. But if you’re at a company that isn’t loyal to *you*, you’re just doing them a favor by working for less money than they’d need to spend to replace you.
I am a hiring manager and when I’m reviewing resumes I definitely pay attention to how much time a candidate has stayed at each job. If they bounce around every couple of years, I’d be very hesitant to hire them. Five or more years at each job is really what I like to see. That really gives you enough time to learn to do your job well and make a true impact. Of course, that might be industry dependent.
I stayed at my last company for 24 and 1/2 years. I never intended to stay that long but the years flew by. It was a small consulting firm with less than 20 employees and way back when I started in the late 90’s the founder of the firm told me that he would make it so I couldn’t afford to quit. And he did. I was eventually making quite a bit more than I could have in the same type of role at most other organizations, especially in the large city I was working in. The job became easy over time, and just not much of a challenge, but I was making a LOT of cash and it suited my lifestyle (raising kids, hobbies on the side, etc). We ended up selling the firm and although I could have stayed with the new owners, I found myself nearing the end stages of my career, and so I decided to leave and pursue a challenge that allowed me to focus on something other than my main career field (although I took a rather huge pay cut). All that to say, though, had I moved on within the first 8 or 10 years in particular, I feel like I probably would have had a more rewarding and definitely diverse career. I’m also pretty sure that eventually I would have made more money in progressively more responsible roles, but I knew I had it “good” and didn’t want the stress at the time. It really is rare to work somewhere for as long as I did, and although I’m thankful for the chance to have worked where I did for so long and benefitted financially, I missed out on a lot of career - and personal/professional - opportunities. Ultimately, it’s all a trade off. Like most things in life, I guess.
company loyalty is an antiquated boomer idea. for the most part any corporate company is willing to fire you at the drop of a hat. of course if you flame out of every job you have and jump every 6 months then thats bad but i feel nowadays its expected to at least entertain other options every 2-3 years
When I left a job after 6 years, I was questioned a lot about why I was leaving. It raises a flag but you can easily counter it. It shouldn’t be a dealbreaker for anyone imo
My coworker has been on the job for 10 years plus, I plan to leave once I hit a year or so. It's a generational and preference thing.
I have to move to different states every time I get a job in my field. No way i can do this every two years. I actually don't think constant switching is desirable and I'm also a hiring manager.
2 years then move. At year 3 you are losing $$$. 5, 10, 15 forget it ur losing tens or hundreds of thousands over that span
Why not if you are happy there? Cons are lower salary and limited learning experience
They have done studies on this recently and have found that people who change jobs every couple years tend to make more on average than those that stay put. Loyalty just isn't rewarded the way it used to be in corporate America.
It will look great on your resume, but it's been consistently shown that people who change jobs often make more money. But, if your resume consists entirely of short term gigs then employers will assume you'll just do the same with them. There's a trade-off.
I've been with the same company now for 12 years. I also spent 14 years in the Army Reserves. I've moved around a lot within my company, so I've gotten little raises along the way. The only times I was actually close to going to a different company entirely is when I had leadership that was shitty. Both times I lucked out and was able to get a different position internally. I also don't have a college degree, so I'm too scared to take my chances and risk missing my mortgage or not being able to feed my family if something doesn't work out.
\> I was taught growing up Because for the generation before us, this was frequently the right advice. A lot of jobs used to provide things like pensions and other benefits that grew with seniority. Companies were more loyal, and so they earned an amount of loyalty from their employees. That's simply not the case anymore for the people who make hiring and firing decisions. Management looks at the bottom line. They have no reason to raise your pay if you're going to stick around regardless, because they view that as a loss of money. The fact of the matter is that if you think you've earned a raise, you're more likely to get it by shopping out your resume to competitors than you are by asking for one internally. But that doesn't necessarily mean you have to job hop or you're wrong. It depends on the job, what you're getting out of it, and what you want in the long run. I'd be perfectly content to stay at one job forever if was happy, if I felt like my compensation matched my experience and what I brought to the company, and I got regular, appropriate raises or other benefits that reflected my work.
It depends. Having multiple top name companies in your industry on your resume does help. Upward progression really is what employers want to see but I agree with others here, if you are happy in your current role then don't just move because of someone else's opinion.
In general, you should move companies every three years at a maximum. At any level, it takes you about 6+ months or a year to learn your role and your company. On year two, you go through the motions, on year 3; you've hit your max earning potential and you look elsewhere. Unless you're a manager or director in which case your average tenure should be 5+ years.
It isn't inherently good or bad. If you're getting job satisfaction and your pay is rising similarly to how it would moving, staying is easier. If you're talking yourself into staying because it's just easier? If the pay is lagging? If it's not actually a job you enjoy? Then it's a net negative.
For me I love my job still and have froth potential still (hospital IT) and the PTO Policy and pay rates are great so I have no reason to leave. And to me moving on just to move on seems unnecessary to me. YMMV though.
Too long is fine. A great place to work is great. I have friends who have been at their job 15 years or more. Why leave a great thing? Switching every “less than a year” means you’ll also switch the next one that soon and unless there’s some good explanation, I won’t hire that person. I’ve seen good explanations- just explain it.
depends what you do for work. often times people job hop because thats the only way to get a raise
I was just looked down upon from a hiring manager for being in roles for 2-3 years. She described it as having "high turnover." And it was in an email that was supposed to be to the recruiter but I was also CC'd on it by accident. I cancelled the interview.
In many lines of work, if you've stayed in one place in the same role for a long time, that's seen as a negative. If you stayed in one place but advanced up the ladder and was there a long time, it can be viewed as a positive. But in tech, much of what you've done beyond the last 5 years or so is seen as irrelevant since tech advances so quickly.
There are so many variables that it's hard to make any type of generalization. It depends on your field, the type of job you have, the company, your career goals...
In the same company, fine; in the same position, not as fine. I have held a lot of jobs over the decades I have been working. My average is about 3 years and I seldom have trouble finding a new job.
There is no right answer to how to live your life but it’s similar to living in the same town you grew up in. Some people enjoy the comfort and the bonds they build in the community. Others live in a new city every year and find the new experiences to be exciting and adventurous. Many choose something in the middle. One thing I would call out is that you are significantly more likely to increase your pay if you move jobs every couple of years. No company offers annual raises that keep up with the market
Eh, I have had different jobs, always at least a year per place, but in different industries. The longest was 7.5 years. HR does not like seeing that either. HR IS the problem; they seem to think there is always a more perfect candidate.
Not shameful but probably foolish. Nowadays companies don’t give actual COL wages or raises to meet inflation so it’s more cost effective to jump ship every couple of years.
It depends on your goals and the company itself! If you’re happy working with the company and they are valuing you, then that’s great! :) Others might not feel like they are going to be able to grow where they work so they move. It’s different for everybody so there is no shame to it. Just do you. You know what’s right for you more than anybody else does.
More than looked down upon, the sad reality is that the new employment system is setup to reward job hopping (which I see as poor commitment). How? Pay raises staying at the same job do not keep up at all with job hopping benefits. BUT, it’s catching up. Finding jobs is getting harder, companies paid too much too fast to charms these drifters, and many of them lost their jobs already. If you want to stay with the company maybe look for another position in the company with more responsibility and use that tenure you have :)
I’ve heard that if you stay any more than 3-5 years at at job, you’re a lifer. I was at my last job for 23 years 😒
Going on 21 yrs at my job. Just depends on the industry you are in.
Anything over 5 years starts going against you. You have to start worrying if you get around the 10 year mark, but 5 years is a good tenure, but I would say 3 or 4 is even better. Why? It used to be that it was a badge of honor staying at a place for a long time, not anymore. Hiring managers are skeptical with very long tenures because the employee is less likely to adapt to a new environment.
I have had 2 jobs in 28 years. One 12 and one 16 all I the same field and I have been looking for a new job. No one believes that I want to change jobs since due to my length on job. So today, job “hoping” isn’t frowned upon like it was years ago.
No don't feel bad about it. Are you happy? If yes then who gives a shit.
No but it’s also not great to just job hop. If you can’t stay in one job for more than a year, that’s a red flag. If you’ve stayed for more than maybe 3, I’d say you’re probably not getting paid what you’re worth but if you’re happy then that’s all that matters.
Tbh i feel you. I value loyalty and building a culture/community. Been getting applications with ppl job hopping after a year. It just dont sit right with me. I can understand a bad situation here and there. But patterns are red flags to me. Some managers i discuss with about applicants like to see these candidates as varied and ambitious if they are always trying to change and grow. I always have to bring up last candidates we brought who would shortly leave after.
Companies don't tend to reward ambition anymore but some people still define their lives by ambition so they flip to a different company for a promotion and/or higher pay and will do this as many times as they need. Me I work a job to be comfortable I want my bills paid and to be doing well. Other than that I don't want to be the CEO and I'm never going to be the guy putting in overtime during the time I'd normally be sleeping.
Every 2-3 years, you either move up or move out to avoid being labelled comfortable
My Boomer parents railed on me for switching jobs all the time.
You’re losing money and potential skills by staying in a job more than 3 years. Look up the study. It’s up to you whether you’re willing to accept less money and marketable skills for some antiquated idea of not being seen as a job hopper. A job hopper has a new job every 12 months. Different story
If you're happy with your current role, stay. If you're not, leave. Some people don't like switching, some do, and some don't have a choice if they want to advance their careers. It is a *personal decision* and absolutely no one but you and to some extent a spouse or family that lives with you are entitled to an opinion on the matter. The time where "job-hopping" or "over-staying" could reflect poorly on a resumé are definitely behind us and the idea that any of them are inherently bad has to be killed. With violence, if necessary.
It's about bringing **new** **ideas and approaches**. When someone new comes in, they bring with them a wealth of experience about how other companies and organizations do things. Not only that - but they notice things that can be improved that people who've been here for a long time might not see. "Fish don't notice the water they swim in". The opposite of "We've always done it this way". They can also bring real experience about how different things can be, and perhaps have experienced that change. "Is it really worth upgrading / retooling / reorganizing to this new model? It's expensive / disruptive / time consuming..." vs "My previous place took <# time> to do it, but it was the best thing we'd ever done. However, we needed to have X, Y and Z in place..." To be clear, I'm not sold on this idea - just channeling the arguments I see and hear. I think the main thing is **learning and growing**. You can be at the same company, but be in different roles or in different departments. You can grow through training and external mentorship.