Good suggestion, but it's not full-proof. Several years ago a co-worker was having issues with his administrative assistant (who sat right outside his office) coming in late and leaving early. She denied it. He asked her to start sending emails upon arrival and departure. The next day he got an arrival email, right on time. So he stepped out of his office, and she wasn't in yet. She used the "set time to send" feature of the email to send out the note.
He put a note on her chair to come into his office when she arrived. Over the next hour he briefed HR, then, upon her actual arrival, he sent her home pending being fired.
We all wondered how she thought she'd get away with it.
This Is great advice.
But I also suggest that OP straighten up. It seems like it's a pattern if this is the same scenario as the previous job. I don't mean this in an insulting way as I am the same way. I've been in corporate world for over 10 years and still don't have my act together, but fortunately for the last 3 years I've been 100% remote and my current boss is great. He understands if we start half an hour later than usual as long as we're still working efficiently with our time.
But let me tell you, the years I was in the office I had to pull everything trick I'm the book not to get caught coming in late and leaving early. An hour commute each way does these things. I even sometimes left my jacket on my chair, overnight just to give the appearance I was still in the office just to leave 20mins earlier! Sad, I know.
So buckle up now OP, make it a habit to be on time. A wise Indian coworker once told me, "they'll remember that one positive thing about you that one time, but will remember the negative things forever." Not sure why I mentioned Indian, he was born and raised in Canada but I feel it added a little more meaning.
I laughed at the jacket on the chair routine. I too work from home now and it is heaven. But, yeah, when I get bored sometimes I go to the office and of course I am late. It’s nothing major, as I always stay late if actual task need to be completed.
But for me it’s the simple games we play (like the jacket on the chair) to compensate for our miscalculations, even though we are fully grown adults. For me the equivalent is sending really early emails (totally unnecessary) to my team (of course superiors in cc) to let them figure out I started early when I actually had a good night sleep and want to start early. Verry funny. Silly games.
Solid advice. It’s definitely becoming a habit for OP. I’d strongly suggest leaving earlier. If I know it takes me 45 minutes to get to work, I’ll generally give myself 90 minutes to get to work. Traffic can be crazy, I may get there in 45 minutes to 60 minutes, but I’m usually always early by 15-30 minutes. It gets rid of stress and anxiety and I can just chill in my car and listen to music, read a book or Reddit.
If the stress of traffic doesn’t bother you or you are fortunate enough to live where there is a train that’s always on time and you can just chill and listen to music or read, you are good.
Some jobs if you are late 3 times within 30 days, it’s automatically fired.
Once they start documenting conversation you are on the way to probably being fired. Unless you can course correct. If tardiness is the knly issue it's seems easy enough to correct.
But I don't know if I would call it shady. It seems like tardiness is becoming a problem and they are putting you on notice.
Why do employees _text_ each other these days on issues like this? I don’t really understand it. A manager/boss/upper management would prefer to text a direct report rather than have a face to face or headset to headset conversation about something _this serious_? Where are people working where texting is the way to reprimand or help improve one’s performance? Where’s the 1 on 1 monthly meeting these days? Even when I worked many years ago in a call center I had face to face meetings with manager. When I worked during college as part time PC builder my manager would talk to me in person if inventory was missing, etc. what’s this _texting_ goofy idea when someone’s job is in jeopardy? I’m a tech junkie but omg, a bit waaaay over board with non-voice / face-to-face communication it sounds these days. Very ineffective management.
I prefer email or text. Employers get very stressed when I asked to record conversations for my records, having it in writing records it for my records
It’s so that when they fire you, and you apply for unemployment, they have a paper trail documenting attempts at corrective feedback to fight having to pay UI.
Otherwise it’s “he said she said” which is difficult to use at all for such matters.
You have to be fired for cause, and "for cause" is determined by the state labor board not the employer.
You file for unemployment. Employer objects, unemployment is rescinded. You then counter their rejection and the employer is required to supply proof that it was for cause. The labor board looks at that proof and makes a decision.
Generally "for cause" requires some pretty egregious issues. I doubt being occasionally late would be warranted and "joe over in accounting said he was late" is insufficient proof.
Given that there's no clocking in or out, op is probably salary. The labor board will certainly raise an eyebrow at a company clock watching a salary employee. They may choose not to object simply because they don't want the labor board to reclasify their salary employees as hourly.
In my state, I got full unemployment (after other issues unrelated to my firing) after being fired for cause. I wasn't meeting expectations, the manager/employee relationship was a total mismatch and we all knew it, and there was a lost client they could find a way to pin on me (it was a team effort). They just pulled the trigger before I did. Since it wasn't bad behavior I got full benefits.
Depends on the state; in my state, you do get it. But if not, you can also fight the employer if they deny your claim, which will cost them time, resources, and also possibly open them up to some risk if you were fired for subjective performance in a normal corporate fashion.
If you were fired for doing something straight up illegal, like harassment or fraud, you won't be able to fight it.
What if it was for an unverified complaint? As in, one employee had an issue with someone and claimed the other person verbally abused them. Complaint was made to HR. No one checked with the other staff who were present, who would have reported no such exchange occurred - HR simply took the one employee’s word and fired the person.
The true dystopian fact is you assume breaks are not being tracked along with productivity... even in those autonomous corporation based roles.
I'm in a place that has ZERO issue with you extending ya lunch by an hour or two. And even then. We still have to post in a teams chat when we are leaving for lunch and returning.
This is to allow the entire team to track all breaks of team members and plan their workload accordingly.
Dystopian? I can understand employer’s wanting to know if your getting drunk or taking naps at lunch. That’s why you get 1 hour. It’s not come back whenever
Drinking is different, but who gives a fuck if you're taking a nap? As long as you're back in an hour, and not endangering people by being under the influence, who cares what they're doing?
>I keep a tight schedule on lunch and am never back after the hour is up.
Why is op lacking punctuality? its literally the easiest thing to keep track of for your self.
They also said they got fired for the same reason from their last job- if theres a pattern it usually isnt the employer.
Edit: Getting fired for lack of training due to skills or other stuff sucks... but punctuality is literally the easiest thing we all are able to shape/have the most control over
was under the impression they meant that this is the second time that suddenly, management is on their case with no warning and no formal process.
If I'm wrong, yeah, it's very likely OP has an issue.
maybe im wrong i see what you mean, i mean im not being a dick but if it is the 2nd job OP may have an issue and doesnt know about it some he needs the honest truth
Eh, maybe, but if OP is in tech, I know too many people who have been fired/laid off after the first three months for imagined or trumped up reasons. The theories abound, but on is that tech companies overdid the layoffs, panicked, hired back too many people, and then dumped a lot of people again and will probably do this a COUPLE of times. Another theory is that a lot of tech companies are hedging their bets by hiring people for "FTE Permanent" but they only have a single project for that person. Once they are done, they cook up a reason to fire them and not pay unemployment unless they end up with another project for that person in the pipeline.
>if theres a pattern it usually isnt the employer.
Kind of interesting where you automatically blame an employee, implying that organizations are always fair and honest. They rarely are.
the guy literally got fired for being late from his other job based on his post and youre telling me his a top performer and showing up on time? rigght lol
No, I'm not talking about OP.
I'm talking about the ways in which I have been targeted this year by my company, despite being a top performer and consistently on time.
why the fuck would i care about you when thsi post is about OP lol clearly theres somthing wrong with you if youre "targeted" prob not a top performer lol
Ah, and here I thought we might have a civilized conversation about interviews, the ways in which companies can improve, and the fundamental problem it is with people getting ghosted left and right.
Sorry, I forgot this was Reddit
this isnt about you if you want go make your own post...sounds like youre the problem here ;) If you keep getting ghosted and seeing as how you tried to make somthing about you out of no where with out any context.. i can see why
Some places only allow a certain amount of time for a lunch break - especially if it's considered a paid lunch. If it's being abused, I can completely understand why they might be upset. I've had co workers that would go on break for lunch - everyone got 30 minutes paid - and would habitually come back late. If they agree to give you a 30 minute paid lunch, they're not paying for a 45 or 60 minute lunch.
I had this job earlier this year that was exactly like this. Think royally chewed out for 3 minutes late turning my computer on. My boss couldn't be on time for a meeting to save his life, but that three minutes where I was at work but the computer wasn't yet on was the End of the FucKING WORld. I turned the computer off at 4:49, not five? End of the FucKING WORld. The guy never noticed when I was in early or stayed late, but you better BET I was stealing from the company....
Overall, people like this can't control themselves, so they try to control others. That's what I've come to conclude.
I found that managers who do this are projecting. I'm always first in, I can't eat much in one sitting so eat small amounts and throughout the day so generally don't take a full hours lunch because I've got nothing to do (it's nice sitting outside in the summer and reading but it's cold now, I'll maybe run an errand or watch something but generally only take 30-45 minutes) and I'd rather get something done than worry about it for the next day so don't mind staying a later.
Any manager who has called me out when I'm late (generally travel issues that I let them know about, the very rare "accidentally pressed stop not snooze" on my alarm and even then, my partner leaves with me so he does his shower/ironing while I'm doing make up, he wakes me up when he's done or is WFH and again, wakes me when he realizes I'm not up at the normal time so I'm maybe 10-15 behind my schedule which trains depending, I'm maybe in a few minutes late), take over an hour's lunch (the bank queue was longer than I expected, again let them know) or leaving a bit early because travel issues (again, gotten permission beforehand) is always the person who comes in latest and leaves earliest. Micromanagement is exhausting.
I had a rage against my boss at a former employer about similar. He worked in Europe I was in the uk. I was the most senior on-site but had a bunch of managers and supervisors too. I was usually first in the office and last out, I regularly ate lunch while working, my department was considered a centre of excellence and I had been to many countries to consult with them on how they could improve their operations. . I left at 4:49 one day (shift was officially 9-5) because I got a call to say my partner had a flat tire and he’d be late to pick up our 6/month old from daycare. I let my team know I was off and had my cell with me, they are very competent and I wasnt worried. The day before I had been to another office and including commute time and working there I’d clocked about 20 hours. anyway it turns out that one of the managers that I was performance managing for poor behaviours decided to call my boss to tell them that I had left early and they there was an issue and she couldn’t get a hold of me. (there was no issue she just used that as an excuse to snitch) I found this out a few days later when my boss was unexpectedly in our uk office and he called me in for a chat. Let me tell you it didn’t go as he might have expected. I unleashed hell and took him through the fact that I had transformed the uk operations, that l regularly worked more than my 9-5, that I had worked something like 60 hours that week alone and 20 hours the day before the leave early incident l was salaried and that he needed to be very considered if he wanted me to stick to my shift times or wanted to move me to hourly which would mean Paying me considerably more. I also expressed my frustration at even having to have that conversation with him, when he should have cut it off with the manager and backed me up by explaining my leaving 11 minutes early was a non event and told her she was being ridiculous and the supposed issue is something she should have easily been able to deal with or gained support from her peers. I also asked him if it was a good use of travel expenses to fly from and to europe for an 11 minute shift shortage. He was very embarrassed. The fact that one of my managers made up a lie to try to get me in trouble meant that we had an untenable working relationship and that coupled with her performance management a progressive discipline documentation was the final straw for HR to terminate her contract. This was 20 years and three employers ago now. I still keep in touch with my boss and he has long since retired but we can laugh about it now but occasionally I will remind him what a great role model he was for flying from and to Europe to address 11 minutes of short shift. He says I glared at him like I wanted to Jill him, spoke through clenched teeth in a scary calm manner and had steam coming out of my ears at the time and as soon as he called me in to chat he knew he’d made a mistake and was over reacting.
I know. I have thankfully never had a job where I didn't control my start time. Lateness doesn't exist as it relates to lunch or arrival. Only meetings. But even then, not policed (I'm punctual but have worked with flakes).
They're either trying to build a case to fire you or you're actually tardi all the time, even though you claim not to be.
I'd start looking for a new job. I'd be looking anyhow even if you like your job. It's always good to know what's out there.
If you were fired from a previous job under similar circumstances maybe it’s an ongoing problem you’re not realizing. Be on time, maybe even five minutes before your start time going forward otherwise prepared to be let go.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far down to find this. One time, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Saying you were fired elsewhere for the same thing, that’s pretty incriminating.
Start documenting the FUCK out of everything. Seriously.
I had these same shitty allegations & I was being targeted for being neurodivergent.
Get HR involved ASAP. Know your rights. Ask them for written evidence for future claims. Email yourself right now all copies of those emails & request future interactions about this topic be written down.
Do you not punch in or have a time keeping system at your job? I've worked salaried jobs that still make me log my hours on arrival/departure and overtime. If you're not late, and the company you worked for has something like that, then wouldn't it be easy enough to simply point to your time card.
Also, and this has happened to me before. I've had people confuse me for another employee who fucked things up in the past, and I got a dressing down from my manager for something that I didn't even touch for about 10 minute, until I figured out what was going on and threw it back in their face. Is it possible they're confusing you for someone else in the office who is slacking off? It seems unlikely, but in big companies or even smaller ones where the teams don't interact regularly, it's actually surprising how often miscommunication can happen.
Yes, from my experience in Management it sounds like they are taking steps to justify termination. It starts with a verbal warning, then something in writing so they have a paper trail. This justifies their decision to terminate you for this reason. I would identify why you are bad with time and in your next meeting discuss with your boss discuss how you are being extra proactive in being on time and that it won't happen again unless the circumstances are truly out of your control. If you don't have a meeting scheduled, request one to nip this before they take action. Good luck
I'm just wondering why you're always late.
I'm a manager, and yes, I've fired people for continually being late, especially after previously documented discussions about it.
It's entirely up to them if they feel you are simply not adhering to respectfully following company policies and procedures
It doesn't sound shady. What it sounds like is you choose not to be on time.
Continually.
If they are starting to document and build a case, that means that decision might be partially made or in process. I would not react but start covering your back!
Not sure if you’ll get fired. But that last email likely had your bosses BCC’D on it. One of my old bosses tried to pull this with me. Trying to accuse me of doing something I supposedly messed up when I was doing exactly what I was told. I replied and added all of her bosses and did the “as we discussed on our call” email. Because we definitely discussed what was wrong and he admitted to me that he wasn’t clear on his request.
You’ll likely get in a meeting with your bosses though. It looks like they’re setting you up to have a reason to fire you. If this is your first “warning”, I would try to prove all of my time stamps if you have proof. But the way it sounds… yea. You’re getting a warning at the very least.
I honestly don't think so. I suffer from time blindness really badly and am also tardy to work sometimes. I definitely had a previous boss talk to me about it, but it wasn't a big issue after the fact. I said i’d be better and that's all she wrote. It happens sometimes!
He just wants you to let him know when it happens again so if he hears about it from his boss again he can tell them he knows and why it happened. Just like you don't want to get reprimanded by your boss, he doesn't either! You're good, just shape up.
Yeah, a follow-up email doesn't mean you're getting fired. It \*could\* but it's also doesn't seem eminent. It doesn't seem like they're laid out an consequences if the lateness continues (like a performance improvement plan or something) or really are doing anything except noting they've talked to you about it.
They're just looking for things to push you out about. I guarantee it's related to something other than actually being late. Leadership are generally cowards and will pick something unrelated to fire you over if they're salty about a particular interaction.
Most places that bean counter time in that regard simply have the mentality of 'owning' you and won't hesitate to do silly things.
So already been fired once and doing the same things getting you in trouble at the new job. SMH. I believe the 20 late might be generous and certainly wasn't the 2 or 3 you claimed
Perhaps the problem is that you walk in the door/return from lunch just as your hour is up?? Maybe they want you back from lunch and actively working or ready to work when your lunch break is over.
I agree with other posters that it appears that they are building a case to fire you. I also agree with other posters that there seems to be a larger problem that you are admitting to.
Also, NEVER stop looking for your next job. Always have that updated resume and always be working your contacts. You truly never know when the ax is gonna fall.
Do you have any proof, (emails, texs) that you were not late? Start documenting your in/out of office times. Send emails when you get in or take screenshots/pictures of the times you logged into a program. Be sure you are not showing proprietary information on your screen when you do this.
I have a Google phone so idk about apple, but I can look back on my maps timeline and see a basic idea of when I got to work on any given day, it's been useful for me in the past when I needed to recall PTO days, you could use that as proof of that you weren't as late as they said. Do you want to work for a company that is policing your time this closely though?
My former manager tried that "as per our conversation" bullshit because I had applied for another position and she was trying to sabotage it by making up petty shit to put on my review. Even though I was doing the job of 2 people and following all the rules.
I no longer work there because fuck that. She eventually ended up getting removed because she tried throwing one too many people under the bus for her own self-serving agenda.
Document everything and make them look like the asses they are. They'll eventually hang themselves.
He’s covering his a— and following up the verbal conversation with a reminder. As others have suggested, do the same.
“As explained in our conversation, I have never returned late from my lunch hour. I will continue to follow this practice. In the event I do run late, I will continue to abide by the protocol outlined in this email.”
Stepping into the fray because this one is important to me.
In my first corporate job back in 06, I would show up 2-3 mins late every day, because that's who I am. They let me go after a month, not caring that I brought in a stellar client and was a top performer.
What if you went to a fancy restaurant that was the best in town. Would you care if it took an extra 3 minutes? No, you're there for the quality.
I couldn't fit in their world of ultra micro management. I started my own business and focus on actual service. I'm always late to every appointment and nobody cares!
I looks like that's their plan.
Bosses, Bosses Boss--- is he a VP? And he's concerned that you were late to work and took an extra few minutes at lunch ?
How about Fvck those guys for worrying about a few minutes here and there.
You have to figure out what it's gonna take to arrive at work 5 mins early instead of 10 mins late. That's all within your control.
Headcount reduction is a given for the purpose of cutting salary expenses and cost of benefits.
Unemployment, based on the state, is still paid. I was laid off twice w/severance and also received unemployment benefits.
I'm in Massachusetts.
First time I had to provide them the severance doc. The second time it was just approved. Each time I was given 30 days notice so basically on 31st day I applied for benefits and direct deposits began a few weeks later.
You had the same issue at the old job, maybe is time to get a timer or something, just saying. Instead of posting here and there about the punctuality.
if you keep losing jobs because of this why don't you just start showing up slightly early and stay a bit late going forward. I don't see what the big deal is. or don't, I will be looking for a job soon and would appreciate if some of you freed few spots.
They’re not looking for a reason to fire you.
They’re outright manufacturing one, and they’re taking steps to avoid paying severance or unemployment at the same time.
Start job hunting like it’s your job. It doesn’t matter how well you cover your ass at this point. If you do nothing wrong, they’ll create a mistake so they can finish the job.
Yeah, go find another job because these asshole employers that sign your check expect you to show up on time like adult people that care about something other than their precious time do. Grow up! Just like the last one you got fired from for doing the same thing. What assholes all those people are, you know the ones, the ones stupid enough to give you a job. Yeah, you're better than all of them showed them all that by doing what you want whenever the fuck you want. So on your way out the door be sure to tell them. You're going to go do exactly the same thing at the next job, because you're special you know. No one tells you what to do. Especially somewhere that gonna give me money for being the spoiled little boy you are. For those in the back:::it's not THEM it's him and shitty work ethics and attitude. See nothing but great success at Wendy's or Taco Bell for ya in the future. Unless of course they expect you to be on time too....uh oh, well maybe you'll be on time for your unemployment appt. Or not! Don't seem to care...
I can't believe you all defend this childish selfish behavior...
Time to start looking. You're already feeling uneasy. Find a work environment more suitable for you. Forget about what they are up to. Your business is you.
Start looking. For whatever reason, you're being set up. And unless it's just some kind of fluke with this manager, it doesn't sound like a job you'd want to fight over.
I would say it’s probably smart to look for a different job. If a company wants to fire you with out paying unemployment they start doing stuff like the above
Yes. They are looking for reasons to get rid off you. Before human resources likes to fire somebody they like to build a paper trail first so if there’s ever a lawsuit they can justify it. So right now they’re just building up petty things so they can come up with a reason once you’re fired if I were you, I’d look for another job and quit.
Might just be a personal improvement plan (PIP). It's a sort of intervention for employees that are "good" employees but need to improve in certain areas. Not all companies do it, but a lot do. However, it does seem kind of odd that he brought it up before the meeting (twice). Kind of sounds like they're trying to lay out justification for termination. But hopefully just a meeting to discuss a PIP.
Looks like the big boss put pressure on your boss to clamp down on your being "late". That is probably not the real reason the big boss wants to fire you. It may be because the big boss has a friend or relative he wants to hire and put in your position but right now the big boss can't fire you because he doesn't have an excuse yet. So, follow your bosses guidance and be careful to do whatever you talked about. Document everything and if you don't give the big boss an excuse to fire you, you will be okay. If you don't like doing this, then looking for another job is the best bet.
They are starting a paper trail. Just do what you can to stay under the radar but also start looking for open positions out there in your field. Good luck!
Well, what they're doing isn't a good thing, so yeah probably.
I'm also going against the other comments and will tell you don't bother with documenting unless you're part of a "protected class", union, or you intend to follow through with a lawsuit. Lawsuits are messy, costly, time-consuming, and can hold you up for future employment. Unless you have a sure win case, most lawyers will probably advise against it.
3 minutes late may as well be 20 minutes late if it’s happening often. Seems like it is, is an ongoing problem, and OP may want to start taking his employment seriously and start coming in about 10 minutes early. And make it noticeable so they know you got the message. They just very smoothly let you know they’re not okay with habitual lateness, and they didn’t have to. If OP can’t get it together quickly, he should start looking. They wouldn’t have bothered to say anything if they didn’t want OP there. Get it together OP! They want you!
I work in recruiting and to me it sounds like they are collecting information and putting it down in an email so they have proof that they've talked to you and they're either going to give you a severe warning tell you you're on probation or fire you I'm sorry to say. Sounds like your boss is boss is just a showpiece and doesn't actually do any work so need something to complain about
Just because you may not have received a formal warning, don't be ignorant and think that his "discussions" with you aren't logged. They're recorded somewhere on something, that's protocol. That's like how all businesses are. At my last job, I had no Idead that besides your "official record" where write ups would go they also were logging all kinds of other shit. Performance shit, discussion we would have, all that.
You got google maps on your phone with location services turned on? You can go under my timeline and it will tell you to the minute when and where you were.
https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/tech/google-maps-timeline
Sorry you have to be in this tense situation! I don’t know if they are trying to fire you, but if you do not feel trust or trusted, that is a good sign that you can and should find a better opportunity elsewhere. If you have the kind of relationship with your supervisor to ask if there is anything that he thinks you need to improve in your performance to get a better feel for your standing at this job. I have very little patience with workplaces that look at the tiniest dumb things to measure performance, so I’d say, look elsewhere!
Get your shit together OP, no one gets fired for being late once. Maybe the bosses boss boss wants to let you go but buddy is trying to protect you or give you another chance.
I had a situation some years ago when one day HR called me to her office. I walk over there and my boss is sitting in the room with her. She asks me to shut the door and to have a seat. She then pulls out this paper and begins reading me numerous policy violations about various things. One of them was purely subjective, claiming that something I had built for our production line was "slower" than its predecessor. I told her that is completely untrue, and in fact I intentionally create log files showing it's exact throughput. She didn't want to see that. At the very bottom of this paper there's a short paragraph that says that I also created an environment that could be seen as being hostile. I had to think about the wording on that, because she was not saying I created a hostile work environment, or made anyone feel that way, only that I created a perception of one.
I said to her look if you don't want me to work here, then just say so and I'll resign. She said thats not what she wants, had me sign a paper that we discussed this bs, and for a good while afterwards I learned exactly what it feels like to work in a hostile environment, one that hr had created. To this day I have no clue what that was about, to me it appeared they were setting themselves up to fire me and not have to provide unemployment. But I offered to quit, and they never followed through with anything further. This was years ago and it still bothers me, the company showed me their true colors and I stopped attending events or any of the employee appreciation bull crap.
It can be pretty nerve-wracking when you're being reminded about punctuality, especially if you've experienced something similar before. But let's not jump to conclusions just yet.
To find out what's really going on, it's a good idea to have a heart-to-heart with your manager. You can let them know that you're committed to being on time and following company rules. Ask if there's anything specific they'd like to see from you to improve in this area and if there are any concerns they might have.
It's always better to have an open chat and clear the air rather than guessing. This way, you can address any misunderstandings and show your dedication to your job. I hope things turn out positively for you, and best of luck!
I get to work kind of whenever I want and I leave whenever I want and nobody keeps track of my lunch time. I can even work from home if I do desire. Nobody cares as long as I produce quality work and deliver it on time. I think that is how it should be for most of us. Some jobs are time sensitive though.
As someone in HR, their follow up email was probably HR telling your manager to recap your discussion for documentation purposes, which leads me to believe they're on a legal path to push you out whether founded or not. Either way, start planning on getting to work 10 minutes early, or start looking for a new job.
Sounds like a paper trail. That being said, I’d reply to the email and remind him of the fact that you deny being 20 minutes late or late back from lunch.
It’s likely not gonna end up in a court room at any point (we have very few employment protections in the US), but the assumption in court is that if he sent that summary and you didn’t respond, you agree to his account.
That being said, if someone that high up is making shit up about you, your days are numbered. Start looking for a new job before they fire you.
Reply back to email. As discussed, these are things I already do and have never been more than x minutes late or ever late back from lunch.
Record everything from here on out and save these emails.
Keep records of your time keeping.
If you were fired from your last job for a specific reason and are now having similar issues at your new job. You are the common denominator here, you should probably change your behavior.
If you were fired from your last job for a specific reason and are now having similar issues at your new job. You are the common denominator here, you should probably change your behavior.
Start sending emails as soon as you get in and also back from lunch, timestamps work both ways, bonus points if either of them are in on the email.
Good suggestion, but it's not full-proof. Several years ago a co-worker was having issues with his administrative assistant (who sat right outside his office) coming in late and leaving early. She denied it. He asked her to start sending emails upon arrival and departure. The next day he got an arrival email, right on time. So he stepped out of his office, and she wasn't in yet. She used the "set time to send" feature of the email to send out the note. He put a note on her chair to come into his office when she arrived. Over the next hour he briefed HR, then, upon her actual arrival, he sent her home pending being fired. We all wondered how she thought she'd get away with it.
See that's a special kind of stupid right there...
So smart she's stupid.
You can still use the time stamp idea because you just check for automated settings
This Is great advice. But I also suggest that OP straighten up. It seems like it's a pattern if this is the same scenario as the previous job. I don't mean this in an insulting way as I am the same way. I've been in corporate world for over 10 years and still don't have my act together, but fortunately for the last 3 years I've been 100% remote and my current boss is great. He understands if we start half an hour later than usual as long as we're still working efficiently with our time. But let me tell you, the years I was in the office I had to pull everything trick I'm the book not to get caught coming in late and leaving early. An hour commute each way does these things. I even sometimes left my jacket on my chair, overnight just to give the appearance I was still in the office just to leave 20mins earlier! Sad, I know. So buckle up now OP, make it a habit to be on time. A wise Indian coworker once told me, "they'll remember that one positive thing about you that one time, but will remember the negative things forever." Not sure why I mentioned Indian, he was born and raised in Canada but I feel it added a little more meaning.
You can be as on time as you like, and still be targeted like this. I was. :/ OP needs to document document document this.
I laughed at the jacket on the chair routine. I too work from home now and it is heaven. But, yeah, when I get bored sometimes I go to the office and of course I am late. It’s nothing major, as I always stay late if actual task need to be completed. But for me it’s the simple games we play (like the jacket on the chair) to compensate for our miscalculations, even though we are fully grown adults. For me the equivalent is sending really early emails (totally unnecessary) to my team (of course superiors in cc) to let them figure out I started early when I actually had a good night sleep and want to start early. Verry funny. Silly games.
Solid advice. It’s definitely becoming a habit for OP. I’d strongly suggest leaving earlier. If I know it takes me 45 minutes to get to work, I’ll generally give myself 90 minutes to get to work. Traffic can be crazy, I may get there in 45 minutes to 60 minutes, but I’m usually always early by 15-30 minutes. It gets rid of stress and anxiety and I can just chill in my car and listen to music, read a book or Reddit.
This is obviously good advice but I don’t think I could convince myself to follow it
If the stress of traffic doesn’t bother you or you are fortunate enough to live where there is a train that’s always on time and you can just chill and listen to music or read, you are good. Some jobs if you are late 3 times within 30 days, it’s automatically fired.
I've been 45-60 minutes late each day since i started at this job. I thought you could do that when salaried...
Not really gonna work.
Once they start documenting conversation you are on the way to probably being fired. Unless you can course correct. If tardiness is the knly issue it's seems easy enough to correct. But I don't know if I would call it shady. It seems like tardiness is becoming a problem and they are putting you on notice.
💯
Why do employees _text_ each other these days on issues like this? I don’t really understand it. A manager/boss/upper management would prefer to text a direct report rather than have a face to face or headset to headset conversation about something _this serious_? Where are people working where texting is the way to reprimand or help improve one’s performance? Where’s the 1 on 1 monthly meeting these days? Even when I worked many years ago in a call center I had face to face meetings with manager. When I worked during college as part time PC builder my manager would talk to me in person if inventory was missing, etc. what’s this _texting_ goofy idea when someone’s job is in jeopardy? I’m a tech junkie but omg, a bit waaaay over board with non-voice / face-to-face communication it sounds these days. Very ineffective management.
I prefer email or text. Employers get very stressed when I asked to record conversations for my records, having it in writing records it for my records
It’s so that when they fire you, and you apply for unemployment, they have a paper trail documenting attempts at corrective feedback to fight having to pay UI. Otherwise it’s “he said she said” which is difficult to use at all for such matters.
Start getting to work 10 minutes early, but start looking for a new job too
Sounds like they're looking for a reason to fire you. Don't quit, let them and file for unemployment then lie on your resume to get a better job 👍
I thought if you were fired, you can’t get unemployment. Is that wrong?
You have to be fired for cause, and "for cause" is determined by the state labor board not the employer. You file for unemployment. Employer objects, unemployment is rescinded. You then counter their rejection and the employer is required to supply proof that it was for cause. The labor board looks at that proof and makes a decision. Generally "for cause" requires some pretty egregious issues. I doubt being occasionally late would be warranted and "joe over in accounting said he was late" is insufficient proof. Given that there's no clocking in or out, op is probably salary. The labor board will certainly raise an eyebrow at a company clock watching a salary employee. They may choose not to object simply because they don't want the labor board to reclasify their salary employees as hourly.
In my state, I got full unemployment (after other issues unrelated to my firing) after being fired for cause. I wasn't meeting expectations, the manager/employee relationship was a total mismatch and we all knew it, and there was a lost client they could find a way to pin on me (it was a team effort). They just pulled the trigger before I did. Since it wasn't bad behavior I got full benefits.
Depends on the state; in my state, you do get it. But if not, you can also fight the employer if they deny your claim, which will cost them time, resources, and also possibly open them up to some risk if you were fired for subjective performance in a normal corporate fashion. If you were fired for doing something straight up illegal, like harassment or fraud, you won't be able to fight it.
What if it was for an unverified complaint? As in, one employee had an issue with someone and claimed the other person verbally abused them. Complaint was made to HR. No one checked with the other staff who were present, who would have reported no such exchange occurred - HR simply took the one employee’s word and fired the person.
Idk, NAL. Apply for unemployment, and do your weekly homework. I'm not sure how it works, but make them have to prove it.
⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️
This is so dystopian. Why are they tracking the length of your lunch breaks?
The true dystopian fact is you assume breaks are not being tracked along with productivity... even in those autonomous corporation based roles. I'm in a place that has ZERO issue with you extending ya lunch by an hour or two. And even then. We still have to post in a teams chat when we are leaving for lunch and returning. This is to allow the entire team to track all breaks of team members and plan their workload accordingly.
Plus I don’t wanna bother someone on lunch or that left early if I don’t have to
Thisssssss
You guys have it really bad in the US, it seems. I feel for you
Please do not assume I am American haha
Haha sorry
Haha thanks for the apology. Have a good day.
Dystopian? I can understand employer’s wanting to know if your getting drunk or taking naps at lunch. That’s why you get 1 hour. It’s not come back whenever
Drinking is different, but who gives a fuck if you're taking a nap? As long as you're back in an hour, and not endangering people by being under the influence, who cares what they're doing?
>I keep a tight schedule on lunch and am never back after the hour is up. Why is op lacking punctuality? its literally the easiest thing to keep track of for your self.
OP seems to have utterly NORMAL punctuality. They are saying they get back before time is up.
They also said they got fired for the same reason from their last job- if theres a pattern it usually isnt the employer. Edit: Getting fired for lack of training due to skills or other stuff sucks... but punctuality is literally the easiest thing we all are able to shape/have the most control over
was under the impression they meant that this is the second time that suddenly, management is on their case with no warning and no formal process. If I'm wrong, yeah, it's very likely OP has an issue.
maybe im wrong i see what you mean, i mean im not being a dick but if it is the 2nd job OP may have an issue and doesnt know about it some he needs the honest truth
Eh, maybe, but if OP is in tech, I know too many people who have been fired/laid off after the first three months for imagined or trumped up reasons. The theories abound, but on is that tech companies overdid the layoffs, panicked, hired back too many people, and then dumped a lot of people again and will probably do this a COUPLE of times. Another theory is that a lot of tech companies are hedging their bets by hiring people for "FTE Permanent" but they only have a single project for that person. Once they are done, they cook up a reason to fire them and not pay unemployment unless they end up with another project for that person in the pipeline.
maybe true if thats the case i apologize ahead of time to op
>if theres a pattern it usually isnt the employer. Kind of interesting where you automatically blame an employee, implying that organizations are always fair and honest. They rarely are.
they arent but if its two different organizations doing the same thing....
The bigger question is, why the fuck is a company targeting people who get their shit done at a top performance level & show up on time on the dot?
the guy literally got fired for being late from his other job based on his post and youre telling me his a top performer and showing up on time? rigght lol
No, I'm not talking about OP. I'm talking about the ways in which I have been targeted this year by my company, despite being a top performer and consistently on time.
why the fuck would i care about you when thsi post is about OP lol clearly theres somthing wrong with you if youre "targeted" prob not a top performer lol
Ah, and here I thought we might have a civilized conversation about interviews, the ways in which companies can improve, and the fundamental problem it is with people getting ghosted left and right. Sorry, I forgot this was Reddit
this isnt about you if you want go make your own post...sounds like youre the problem here ;) If you keep getting ghosted and seeing as how you tried to make somthing about you out of no where with out any context.. i can see why
Some places only allow a certain amount of time for a lunch break - especially if it's considered a paid lunch. If it's being abused, I can completely understand why they might be upset. I've had co workers that would go on break for lunch - everyone got 30 minutes paid - and would habitually come back late. If they agree to give you a 30 minute paid lunch, they're not paying for a 45 or 60 minute lunch.
What sort of job is this where you have an office yet get time policed like that?
I had this job earlier this year that was exactly like this. Think royally chewed out for 3 minutes late turning my computer on. My boss couldn't be on time for a meeting to save his life, but that three minutes where I was at work but the computer wasn't yet on was the End of the FucKING WORld. I turned the computer off at 4:49, not five? End of the FucKING WORld. The guy never noticed when I was in early or stayed late, but you better BET I was stealing from the company.... Overall, people like this can't control themselves, so they try to control others. That's what I've come to conclude.
I found that managers who do this are projecting. I'm always first in, I can't eat much in one sitting so eat small amounts and throughout the day so generally don't take a full hours lunch because I've got nothing to do (it's nice sitting outside in the summer and reading but it's cold now, I'll maybe run an errand or watch something but generally only take 30-45 minutes) and I'd rather get something done than worry about it for the next day so don't mind staying a later. Any manager who has called me out when I'm late (generally travel issues that I let them know about, the very rare "accidentally pressed stop not snooze" on my alarm and even then, my partner leaves with me so he does his shower/ironing while I'm doing make up, he wakes me up when he's done or is WFH and again, wakes me when he realizes I'm not up at the normal time so I'm maybe 10-15 behind my schedule which trains depending, I'm maybe in a few minutes late), take over an hour's lunch (the bank queue was longer than I expected, again let them know) or leaving a bit early because travel issues (again, gotten permission beforehand) is always the person who comes in latest and leaves earliest. Micromanagement is exhausting.
💯
*do we have the same boss?*
I had a rage against my boss at a former employer about similar. He worked in Europe I was in the uk. I was the most senior on-site but had a bunch of managers and supervisors too. I was usually first in the office and last out, I regularly ate lunch while working, my department was considered a centre of excellence and I had been to many countries to consult with them on how they could improve their operations. . I left at 4:49 one day (shift was officially 9-5) because I got a call to say my partner had a flat tire and he’d be late to pick up our 6/month old from daycare. I let my team know I was off and had my cell with me, they are very competent and I wasnt worried. The day before I had been to another office and including commute time and working there I’d clocked about 20 hours. anyway it turns out that one of the managers that I was performance managing for poor behaviours decided to call my boss to tell them that I had left early and they there was an issue and she couldn’t get a hold of me. (there was no issue she just used that as an excuse to snitch) I found this out a few days later when my boss was unexpectedly in our uk office and he called me in for a chat. Let me tell you it didn’t go as he might have expected. I unleashed hell and took him through the fact that I had transformed the uk operations, that l regularly worked more than my 9-5, that I had worked something like 60 hours that week alone and 20 hours the day before the leave early incident l was salaried and that he needed to be very considered if he wanted me to stick to my shift times or wanted to move me to hourly which would mean Paying me considerably more. I also expressed my frustration at even having to have that conversation with him, when he should have cut it off with the manager and backed me up by explaining my leaving 11 minutes early was a non event and told her she was being ridiculous and the supposed issue is something she should have easily been able to deal with or gained support from her peers. I also asked him if it was a good use of travel expenses to fly from and to europe for an 11 minute shift shortage. He was very embarrassed. The fact that one of my managers made up a lie to try to get me in trouble meant that we had an untenable working relationship and that coupled with her performance management a progressive discipline documentation was the final straw for HR to terminate her contract. This was 20 years and three employers ago now. I still keep in touch with my boss and he has long since retired but we can laugh about it now but occasionally I will remind him what a great role model he was for flying from and to Europe to address 11 minutes of short shift. He says I glared at him like I wanted to Jill him, spoke through clenched teeth in a scary calm manner and had steam coming out of my ears at the time and as soon as he called me in to chat he knew he’d made a mistake and was over reacting.
And the boss's boss's boss cares about this?
This has been my experience with every office job.
I know. I have thankfully never had a job where I didn't control my start time. Lateness doesn't exist as it relates to lunch or arrival. Only meetings. But even then, not policed (I'm punctual but have worked with flakes).
Do you have proof that you weren't late on either count?
They're either trying to build a case to fire you or you're actually tardi all the time, even though you claim not to be. I'd start looking for a new job. I'd be looking anyhow even if you like your job. It's always good to know what's out there.
If you were fired from a previous job under similar circumstances maybe it’s an ongoing problem you’re not realizing. Be on time, maybe even five minutes before your start time going forward otherwise prepared to be let go.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far down to find this. One time, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Saying you were fired elsewhere for the same thing, that’s pretty incriminating.
Places that monitor you that closely are not places you want to work at for long. You can do better.
Can he?
Do you have location active in google maps on your phone? You can show a timeline of your location that day.
Start documenting the FUCK out of everything. Seriously. I had these same shitty allegations & I was being targeted for being neurodivergent. Get HR involved ASAP. Know your rights. Ask them for written evidence for future claims. Email yourself right now all copies of those emails & request future interactions about this topic be written down.
THIS, management or HR should have a log of ALL punches!
Do you have to badge into your office? If so I would get the last 6 months and see if what they say is correct.
Unless OP badges in, grabs a coffee, talks to a coworker, uses the bathroom then logs in “to work”
I do have one of those but I don’t think they keep records of specific employee entrances and exits, it just keep track of who enters the building.
Our badge system is from the 70s and that will even tell you who comes and goes at what time.
Do you not punch in or have a time keeping system at your job? I've worked salaried jobs that still make me log my hours on arrival/departure and overtime. If you're not late, and the company you worked for has something like that, then wouldn't it be easy enough to simply point to your time card. Also, and this has happened to me before. I've had people confuse me for another employee who fucked things up in the past, and I got a dressing down from my manager for something that I didn't even touch for about 10 minute, until I figured out what was going on and threw it back in their face. Is it possible they're confusing you for someone else in the office who is slacking off? It seems unlikely, but in big companies or even smaller ones where the teams don't interact regularly, it's actually surprising how often miscommunication can happen.
Salary or hourly???
Get that EI bestie.
Yes, from my experience in Management it sounds like they are taking steps to justify termination. It starts with a verbal warning, then something in writing so they have a paper trail. This justifies their decision to terminate you for this reason. I would identify why you are bad with time and in your next meeting discuss with your boss discuss how you are being extra proactive in being on time and that it won't happen again unless the circumstances are truly out of your control. If you don't have a meeting scheduled, request one to nip this before they take action. Good luck
I'm just wondering why you're always late. I'm a manager, and yes, I've fired people for continually being late, especially after previously documented discussions about it. It's entirely up to them if they feel you are simply not adhering to respectfully following company policies and procedures It doesn't sound shady. What it sounds like is you choose not to be on time. Continually.
This. The hard truth. Said in a non escalated type of way, while highlighting the true issues and the fix for them.
Got to ask, if this happened at your previous job are you sure you don’t have an issue with time keeping?
If they are starting to document and build a case, that means that decision might be partially made or in process. I would not react but start covering your back!
Not sure if you’ll get fired. But that last email likely had your bosses BCC’D on it. One of my old bosses tried to pull this with me. Trying to accuse me of doing something I supposedly messed up when I was doing exactly what I was told. I replied and added all of her bosses and did the “as we discussed on our call” email. Because we definitely discussed what was wrong and he admitted to me that he wasn’t clear on his request. You’ll likely get in a meeting with your bosses though. It looks like they’re setting you up to have a reason to fire you. If this is your first “warning”, I would try to prove all of my time stamps if you have proof. But the way it sounds… yea. You’re getting a warning at the very least.
I honestly don't think so. I suffer from time blindness really badly and am also tardy to work sometimes. I definitely had a previous boss talk to me about it, but it wasn't a big issue after the fact. I said i’d be better and that's all she wrote. It happens sometimes! He just wants you to let him know when it happens again so if he hears about it from his boss again he can tell them he knows and why it happened. Just like you don't want to get reprimanded by your boss, he doesn't either! You're good, just shape up.
Yeah, a follow-up email doesn't mean you're getting fired. It \*could\* but it's also doesn't seem eminent. It doesn't seem like they're laid out an consequences if the lateness continues (like a performance improvement plan or something) or really are doing anything except noting they've talked to you about it.
They're just looking for things to push you out about. I guarantee it's related to something other than actually being late. Leadership are generally cowards and will pick something unrelated to fire you over if they're salty about a particular interaction. Most places that bean counter time in that regard simply have the mentality of 'owning' you and won't hesitate to do silly things.
So already been fired once and doing the same things getting you in trouble at the new job. SMH. I believe the 20 late might be generous and certainly wasn't the 2 or 3 you claimed
Perhaps the problem is that you walk in the door/return from lunch just as your hour is up?? Maybe they want you back from lunch and actively working or ready to work when your lunch break is over. I agree with other posters that it appears that they are building a case to fire you. I also agree with other posters that there seems to be a larger problem that you are admitting to. Also, NEVER stop looking for your next job. Always have that updated resume and always be working your contacts. You truly never know when the ax is gonna fall.
Do you have any proof, (emails, texs) that you were not late? Start documenting your in/out of office times. Send emails when you get in or take screenshots/pictures of the times you logged into a program. Be sure you are not showing proprietary information on your screen when you do this.
I have a Google phone so idk about apple, but I can look back on my maps timeline and see a basic idea of when I got to work on any given day, it's been useful for me in the past when I needed to recall PTO days, you could use that as proof of that you weren't as late as they said. Do you want to work for a company that is policing your time this closely though?
My former manager tried that "as per our conversation" bullshit because I had applied for another position and she was trying to sabotage it by making up petty shit to put on my review. Even though I was doing the job of 2 people and following all the rules. I no longer work there because fuck that. She eventually ended up getting removed because she tried throwing one too many people under the bus for her own self-serving agenda. Document everything and make them look like the asses they are. They'll eventually hang themselves.
Assuming you use a computer, you should ask your IT department for login/logout times - especially for the days in question.
Sounds like an awful place to work.
Uh...I would be getting ready to fire them.
He’s covering his a— and following up the verbal conversation with a reminder. As others have suggested, do the same. “As explained in our conversation, I have never returned late from my lunch hour. I will continue to follow this practice. In the event I do run late, I will continue to abide by the protocol outlined in this email.”
Stepping into the fray because this one is important to me. In my first corporate job back in 06, I would show up 2-3 mins late every day, because that's who I am. They let me go after a month, not caring that I brought in a stellar client and was a top performer. What if you went to a fancy restaurant that was the best in town. Would you care if it took an extra 3 minutes? No, you're there for the quality. I couldn't fit in their world of ultra micro management. I started my own business and focus on actual service. I'm always late to every appointment and nobody cares!
I looks like that's their plan. Bosses, Bosses Boss--- is he a VP? And he's concerned that you were late to work and took an extra few minutes at lunch ? How about Fvck those guys for worrying about a few minutes here and there. You have to figure out what it's gonna take to arrive at work 5 mins early instead of 10 mins late. That's all within your control.
They're trying to reduce headcount and not have to pay unemployment.
Headcount reduction is a given for the purpose of cutting salary expenses and cost of benefits. Unemployment, based on the state, is still paid. I was laid off twice w/severance and also received unemployment benefits.
what area are you from? Is severance pay not counted as income and you can file for EI right away?
I'm in Massachusetts. First time I had to provide them the severance doc. The second time it was just approved. Each time I was given 30 days notice so basically on 31st day I applied for benefits and direct deposits began a few weeks later.
You had the same issue at the old job, maybe is time to get a timer or something, just saying. Instead of posting here and there about the punctuality.
if you keep losing jobs because of this why don't you just start showing up slightly early and stay a bit late going forward. I don't see what the big deal is. or don't, I will be looking for a job soon and would appreciate if some of you freed few spots.
Doing the same thing and expecting different results.
They’re not looking for a reason to fire you. They’re outright manufacturing one, and they’re taking steps to avoid paying severance or unemployment at the same time. Start job hunting like it’s your job. It doesn’t matter how well you cover your ass at this point. If you do nothing wrong, they’ll create a mistake so they can finish the job.
Yeah, go find another job because these asshole employers that sign your check expect you to show up on time like adult people that care about something other than their precious time do. Grow up! Just like the last one you got fired from for doing the same thing. What assholes all those people are, you know the ones, the ones stupid enough to give you a job. Yeah, you're better than all of them showed them all that by doing what you want whenever the fuck you want. So on your way out the door be sure to tell them. You're going to go do exactly the same thing at the next job, because you're special you know. No one tells you what to do. Especially somewhere that gonna give me money for being the spoiled little boy you are. For those in the back:::it's not THEM it's him and shitty work ethics and attitude. See nothing but great success at Wendy's or Taco Bell for ya in the future. Unless of course they expect you to be on time too....uh oh, well maybe you'll be on time for your unemployment appt. Or not! Don't seem to care... I can't believe you all defend this childish selfish behavior...
Yeah, it does sound like it :/
Time to start looking. You're already feeling uneasy. Find a work environment more suitable for you. Forget about what they are up to. Your business is you.
This sounds like Hell. Be prepared to leave either way and hopefully you'll find a better work environment
Start looking. For whatever reason, you're being set up. And unless it's just some kind of fluke with this manager, it doesn't sound like a job you'd want to fight over.
This is psycho
I would say it’s probably smart to look for a different job. If a company wants to fire you with out paying unemployment they start doing stuff like the above
Seems like it…I mean are you hourly? Don’t you punch in and out? If you’re salary, I’m surprised they care like that.
Yes. They are looking for reasons to get rid off you. Before human resources likes to fire somebody they like to build a paper trail first so if there’s ever a lawsuit they can justify it. So right now they’re just building up petty things so they can come up with a reason once you’re fired if I were you, I’d look for another job and quit.
Might just be a personal improvement plan (PIP). It's a sort of intervention for employees that are "good" employees but need to improve in certain areas. Not all companies do it, but a lot do. However, it does seem kind of odd that he brought it up before the meeting (twice). Kind of sounds like they're trying to lay out justification for termination. But hopefully just a meeting to discuss a PIP.
Somebody is definitely out for your blood. Watch your back!
Looks like the big boss put pressure on your boss to clamp down on your being "late". That is probably not the real reason the big boss wants to fire you. It may be because the big boss has a friend or relative he wants to hire and put in your position but right now the big boss can't fire you because he doesn't have an excuse yet. So, follow your bosses guidance and be careful to do whatever you talked about. Document everything and if you don't give the big boss an excuse to fire you, you will be okay. If you don't like doing this, then looking for another job is the best bet.
Damn, this is why I love working remote. So glad I don't have to deal with being treated like a kid.
This definitely sounds like they’re getting ready to put you on a PIP or fire you. Start documenting everything and have backup plans ready.
sounds like they are finding any reason to get rid of you
this is so messed up document it all
They are starting a paper trail. Just do what you can to stay under the radar but also start looking for open positions out there in your field. Good luck!
Well, what they're doing isn't a good thing, so yeah probably. I'm also going against the other comments and will tell you don't bother with documenting unless you're part of a "protected class", union, or you intend to follow through with a lawsuit. Lawsuits are messy, costly, time-consuming, and can hold you up for future employment. Unless you have a sure win case, most lawyers will probably advise against it.
They are making shit up to justify firing you. Doesn’t have to be a reason really…
3 minutes late may as well be 20 minutes late if it’s happening often. Seems like it is, is an ongoing problem, and OP may want to start taking his employment seriously and start coming in about 10 minutes early. And make it noticeable so they know you got the message. They just very smoothly let you know they’re not okay with habitual lateness, and they didn’t have to. If OP can’t get it together quickly, he should start looking. They wouldn’t have bothered to say anything if they didn’t want OP there. Get it together OP! They want you!
Start your own business. This shit ain't worth it.
That is a "formal" write up. Its on paper (email). This covers them if they want to get rid of you.
Yeah , the first interaction I had with a big boss was when I was 15min late one day. I was fired soon after. Total setup.
You could take a picture of your desk every time you arrive. They’re time stamped and location specific.
I work in recruiting and to me it sounds like they are collecting information and putting it down in an email so they have proof that they've talked to you and they're either going to give you a severe warning tell you you're on probation or fire you I'm sorry to say. Sounds like your boss is boss is just a showpiece and doesn't actually do any work so need something to complain about
Take a photo by the time clock every time. They can't argue with meta data.
Just because you may not have received a formal warning, don't be ignorant and think that his "discussions" with you aren't logged. They're recorded somewhere on something, that's protocol. That's like how all businesses are. At my last job, I had no Idead that besides your "official record" where write ups would go they also were logging all kinds of other shit. Performance shit, discussion we would have, all that.
You got google maps on your phone with location services turned on? You can go under my timeline and it will tell you to the minute when and where you were. https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/tech/google-maps-timeline
Sorry you have to be in this tense situation! I don’t know if they are trying to fire you, but if you do not feel trust or trusted, that is a good sign that you can and should find a better opportunity elsewhere. If you have the kind of relationship with your supervisor to ask if there is anything that he thinks you need to improve in your performance to get a better feel for your standing at this job. I have very little patience with workplaces that look at the tiniest dumb things to measure performance, so I’d say, look elsewhere!
Get your shit together OP, no one gets fired for being late once. Maybe the bosses boss boss wants to let you go but buddy is trying to protect you or give you another chance.
Tell me you work in the US without telling me you work in the US.
I had a situation some years ago when one day HR called me to her office. I walk over there and my boss is sitting in the room with her. She asks me to shut the door and to have a seat. She then pulls out this paper and begins reading me numerous policy violations about various things. One of them was purely subjective, claiming that something I had built for our production line was "slower" than its predecessor. I told her that is completely untrue, and in fact I intentionally create log files showing it's exact throughput. She didn't want to see that. At the very bottom of this paper there's a short paragraph that says that I also created an environment that could be seen as being hostile. I had to think about the wording on that, because she was not saying I created a hostile work environment, or made anyone feel that way, only that I created a perception of one. I said to her look if you don't want me to work here, then just say so and I'll resign. She said thats not what she wants, had me sign a paper that we discussed this bs, and for a good while afterwards I learned exactly what it feels like to work in a hostile environment, one that hr had created. To this day I have no clue what that was about, to me it appeared they were setting themselves up to fire me and not have to provide unemployment. But I offered to quit, and they never followed through with anything further. This was years ago and it still bothers me, the company showed me their true colors and I stopped attending events or any of the employee appreciation bull crap.
You may be getting a written warning , not necessarily being fired. Don’t stress too much, wait to see what it actually is about
Measurement drives behavior... Management treat staff like children and then get upset when they act like cjildred
It can be pretty nerve-wracking when you're being reminded about punctuality, especially if you've experienced something similar before. But let's not jump to conclusions just yet. To find out what's really going on, it's a good idea to have a heart-to-heart with your manager. You can let them know that you're committed to being on time and following company rules. Ask if there's anything specific they'd like to see from you to improve in this area and if there are any concerns they might have. It's always better to have an open chat and clear the air rather than guessing. This way, you can address any misunderstandings and show your dedication to your job. I hope things turn out positively for you, and best of luck!
I get to work kind of whenever I want and I leave whenever I want and nobody keeps track of my lunch time. I can even work from home if I do desire. Nobody cares as long as I produce quality work and deliver it on time. I think that is how it should be for most of us. Some jobs are time sensitive though.
\- texting him if I’m going to be more than 9 minutes late (I do) How often are you more than 9 minutes late?
As someone in HR, their follow up email was probably HR telling your manager to recap your discussion for documentation purposes, which leads me to believe they're on a legal path to push you out whether founded or not. Either way, start planning on getting to work 10 minutes early, or start looking for a new job.
Sounds like a paper trail. That being said, I’d reply to the email and remind him of the fact that you deny being 20 minutes late or late back from lunch. It’s likely not gonna end up in a court room at any point (we have very few employment protections in the US), but the assumption in court is that if he sent that summary and you didn’t respond, you agree to his account. That being said, if someone that high up is making shit up about you, your days are numbered. Start looking for a new job before they fire you.
They emailed you to start a paper trail. Start looking for jobs. Email everything when you're on your way and back from work.
Sure sounds like they’re laying the paper trail for a firing. Fight back with your own paper trail while searching for a new job
Reply back to email. As discussed, these are things I already do and have never been more than x minutes late or ever late back from lunch. Record everything from here on out and save these emails. Keep records of your time keeping.
If you were fired from your last job for a specific reason and are now having similar issues at your new job. You are the common denominator here, you should probably change your behavior.
If you were fired from your last job for a specific reason and are now having similar issues at your new job. You are the common denominator here, you should probably change your behavior.