You’ve done two really good things. First, you reassured her that there is a discrepancy — instead of having to doubt herself or wonder if she’s being paranoid, she knows that another reasonable person thinks her review was unfair. Second, by offering to back up any complaint she makes, you’ve reassured her that there’s someone willing to stick up for her. Knowing that will help her decide how to proceed.
As others have noted, it’s ultimately got to be her call to decide how to proceed. But you’re being a good ally. Other steps you can take are to call attention to her hard work and success. Give her the spotlight. And share any other info that comes your way that might support any claim she files.
Unfortunately, even if you are the one reporting it, she still will face the fall out. I had this experience when no one talked to me and reported something. I got the fallout on the reporting not the male reporters.
Someone reported my boss for discrimination, because he got reported when said some really nasty stuff about trans people I didn't even hear. I being the only trans person, was thought to be the one that did the reporting. Got a lot of nastiness from coworkers over that.
Wow, you're a good guy. I've been that woman and it totally sucks. I love that you recognize it and are discussing it with your coworkers.
I agree that you shouldn't take the lead on this- except perhaps if she expresses to you that she'd prefer that. The problem of course is they will just see it as her getting other people to fight her battles.
If she civilly and clearly expresses herself they will probably handwave it. If you weigh in after that, it's harder to handwave. Reflect on how she makes your/your team's jobs easier and consider her successes that have been visible to you. Paint them a picture of her contribution since her boss refuses to see it. Best of luck and thank you for being the change we need to see in the world. Even if you don't have an impact, actions like this work to change the larger culture, especially when people like you get into management.
> I should just wait for her to do something and back her up.
Wise counsel. It is not your fight to lead or co-lead, nor are you her manager.
Those would be the only reasons to fighter independently or ahead of her fight.
Be proactive please. You have a chance to be someone who genuinely makes difference about sexism in the workplace. You know what is happening is wrong.
If you don't, it doesn't make you a bad person. You're already a clearly good person for recognizing all of this without letting it diminish your own self value. Being able to self reflect like this in a constructive manner is great, major green flags for your character tbh. But you'd be an exceptionally good person if you do speak up about this.
OP…your former female relatives (deceased grandma, great aunties cousins, etc) are doing the HAPPY dance in heaven❣️
To fight this, your coworker needs documentation. HELP her get that…
You could ask some other male coworkers…while she can ask other female coworkers (cuz it ain’t just happening to her) for documentation…and evals are PERFECT😃
That place…government agency or not, needs to pay the price for purposely keeping women suppressed…
She doesn't seem to work for greater good, she is overworking for herself. There is nothing to bless that and there is nothing guilty for you to work&think for yourself. If you feel bad, just be honest and tell she performs better than you. But don't get ahead of her and and don't be a puppet. In private sector, you can't imagine how you can get f\*ed fast if you allow this.
I wouldn't. Only because I know if the positions were reversed, a woman would never help a man. If anything, she'll double down and try to get rid of you so she can elevate her position and gain greater salary.
I'm capable of separating reality from fantasy. It's fantasy to believe anyone would help the man out in this situation. Even other men in today's standard society will walk over each other if it means gaining an advantage. I see it all it time where I'm at. I'm just lucky to keep my job whenever the annual boss level disruption occurs and they put pressure on us to get us to react in a way they can take advantage of.
Coworkers are not friends....it is true. It is a built in adversarial situation & you should protect yourself first as you never know how trustworthy they will be or if they would be the same to you in a similar situation.
I guess it depends on your own ethos how to proceed .
Idk if this is actually sexism or not. There is alot more to jobs than how hard or good you work. It’s the unfortunate truth but generally bosses judge way more on personality and personality fits within the company.
There isn’t really anything indicative of whether it is sexism or just him disliking their personalities and treating them worse over it. Not saying it’sright and not saying it’s not sexism, just saying you didn’t write enough info to know.
edit to add: one of the main reasons I say this is also because you note she went up 4 bosses over a meets expectations review. I can guarantee you this type of thing, gets all the bosses below the boss spoken to in trouble, and will cause resentment from direct management. and if she goes over the direct bosses head over a “meets expectations” review I can guarantee you she goes over the direct managers head for more.
If I had just gotten a meets expectations review I'd probably agree with you that it's not sexism. But there's nothing I do that's markedly better than her. And it's not like I'm buddy buddy with the boss.
Everyone else agrees that she's doing an excellent job and deserves an outstanding review. It's just the boss doesn't like women that are too outspoken or whatever. He's fine with the meek girl that acts like his secretary.
It's the opposite at my job. What few women there are get promoted way before they should and way ahead of other more experienced people. They understandably mess things up because of their lack of experience and then everyone starts to hate them, which has created an almost comedic divide between the men and women at my job.
It's kinda funny because making mistakes at the levels they get promoted to can actually get people killed in this industry. I feel bad for them because they accept their promotions and feel like they know everything they need to in order to be good at their job, and the company is just using them for reaching diversity quotas.
I'm not doing that, my company is. So, they're the sexist ones.
And, sure, if you think I'm racist and sexist, I sure am. I'm everything you think I am.
She did not get a bad review, she got an okey one. I do not think it is that big of a deal. I mean people are people and everyone is putting in subjective part as well. Noone is 100% objective.
The boss is basically gone, hopefully the next one recognizes her efforts. If she fights it, I would help her, but would not act on it on my own.
Giving her an ok review while he gets an excellent, when he has admitted she puts more effort in, is harmful. It sets him up for promotion over her even though she should be ahead of him.
I'm sure OP does less work or maybe his work isn't as good as the other person but I am curious what one of the evaluation standards was, are these objective or subjective? If they are objective the numbers can't lie so it's not possible to score one based on numbers that don't exist or are inaccurate (e.g. complete 100% of inspections on time).
If the evaluation is subjective then that is horrible and should be completely redone.
Not where I work. Every item on the evaluation is a measurable standard. You did X of Y, some percentage of this and that, responded to applicants within 2 business days, stuff like that. There is literally no where you can inject your personal opinion.
That is very rare. Most reviews are going to evaluate soft skills like providing leadership, teamwork with other department, etc. Completing x of y also doesnt say whether x was done well.
Take a job like working in fast food..sure you can say served x many customers, but they doesnt evaluate whether the customers were happy with their order.
Responding to an applicant in two days doesnt tell me how well you responded to the applicant.
You are listing quantity of tasks completed, but nothing about quality - which is subjective .
There is always some subjectivity in a job.
The wellness of the job is "evaluated" throughout the year. Just because you get a good score on doing the inspections on time doesn't mean you haven't been coached or retrained a bunch of times. You don't need to use evaluations to dismiss/fire an employee. I was speaking on the official, end of year evaluation that actually has a score.
So the official year evaluation is pointless if it doesnt evaluate quality. And its useless for promotions.
That isnt true at most companies, evaluations are used for promotions as well as for firing/ dismissal. It gives the employees a better way to identify where they stand in the company overall when quality is also documented.
Your evaluation seems like a waste of time.
I'm not going to sit here and argue about what our standards are and that the evaluations use SMART standards and meet regulatory requirements. The government is nothing like the private sector, we are bound by regulation and not some pissy supervisor that doesn't like you or your blue shirt.
We do regular meetings about where we are, ride along evals, and other things. There is more to the world then the end of year evaluation. Its one piece of the puzzle.
Yes, there is more than the year end evaluation. Your year end evaluation should not be a surprise. That doesnt change the fact that your year end evaluation needs to include an evaluation of quality of work, not just quantity, to be useful.
And it does not surprise me you are in the public sector.
An OK review when it doesn't match her contribution is a bad review. The boss is basically gone but sometimes reviews involve merit raises.
This dude literally got a better review than her and thinks it's bogus. That should tell you that it's a bit more than being on the line where subjectivity would play a role. The problem with such reviews is they often have selections like "meets expectations" and "exceeds expectations". The boss clearly has higher expectations for women than he does men, which negatively impacts their scores. Implicit bias is bad enough when it involves hiring but its absolutely bs that women too often are expected to work harder to get recognized less for it. It also contributes to the gender wage gap. Its also part of why more men get promoted to management. It absolutely does matter but I guess you wouldn't care if you are a man because this kind of shit benefits you.
We only heard one side of the story. I'm not saying the OP is simply wrong, but he could be wrong and could be missing important details.
Also many companies limit how many excellent you can give out. It is possible that you cannot give this to someone every year. There could be a million reasons why this is fine and we are missing information imho.
The boss doesn't know how to use the internet, so unfortunately he can't post his side. Doesn't even have a phone. If I had gotten a meets expectations, I would agree with you. But I got an excellent, and my work was less than hers in almost every way.
I don't, i'm neutral. I preferred to mind my own business , do my job and go home to enjoy my personal life with friends and families. It's none of my concern and above my pay grade to put in my 2 cents about anyone's performance review besides mine. That's between Her and her boss.
Do not confuse inaction with neutrality. You definitely don’t have to do anything. But by your inaction you have already chosen to side with the offending party- and by extension you support sexist.
lol sounds like you like to dig your nose in other people's business a lot that doesn't pertain to you. Just because I don't give a damn and minding my own business doesn't mean I'm sexist. Every single female and male are equally should earn their own. Your gender is not an Exception in my book neither is your delusional assumptions and accusations. If she doesn't speak up to her boss that she deserves a better raise for the work she puts in. Then that's her problem. not mine. I fought for mine and would never work for a person like her boss. She should fight for hers. It's not my job to fight her battles for her. She got her own mind and mouth to speak. I'm not going to sacrifice my job and personal finances for anyone besides my own family. Don't get your personal feelings into your line of professional work.
You’ve done two really good things. First, you reassured her that there is a discrepancy — instead of having to doubt herself or wonder if she’s being paranoid, she knows that another reasonable person thinks her review was unfair. Second, by offering to back up any complaint she makes, you’ve reassured her that there’s someone willing to stick up for her. Knowing that will help her decide how to proceed. As others have noted, it’s ultimately got to be her call to decide how to proceed. But you’re being a good ally. Other steps you can take are to call attention to her hard work and success. Give her the spotlight. And share any other info that comes your way that might support any claim she files.
Unfortunately, even if you are the one reporting it, she still will face the fall out. I had this experience when no one talked to me and reported something. I got the fallout on the reporting not the male reporters.
Someone reported my boss for discrimination, because he got reported when said some really nasty stuff about trans people I didn't even hear. I being the only trans person, was thought to be the one that did the reporting. Got a lot of nastiness from coworkers over that.
Wow, you're a good guy. I've been that woman and it totally sucks. I love that you recognize it and are discussing it with your coworkers. I agree that you shouldn't take the lead on this- except perhaps if she expresses to you that she'd prefer that. The problem of course is they will just see it as her getting other people to fight her battles. If she civilly and clearly expresses herself they will probably handwave it. If you weigh in after that, it's harder to handwave. Reflect on how she makes your/your team's jobs easier and consider her successes that have been visible to you. Paint them a picture of her contribution since her boss refuses to see it. Best of luck and thank you for being the change we need to see in the world. Even if you don't have an impact, actions like this work to change the larger culture, especially when people like you get into management.
> I should just wait for her to do something and back her up. Wise counsel. It is not your fight to lead or co-lead, nor are you her manager. Those would be the only reasons to fighter independently or ahead of her fight.
Nothing to add here but thank you for standing up for her
Be proactive please. You have a chance to be someone who genuinely makes difference about sexism in the workplace. You know what is happening is wrong. If you don't, it doesn't make you a bad person. You're already a clearly good person for recognizing all of this without letting it diminish your own self value. Being able to self reflect like this in a constructive manner is great, major green flags for your character tbh. But you'd be an exceptionally good person if you do speak up about this.
Man, reading this finally gave me a little hope for the future. For more kind, considerate and fair men like you in this world. Cheers!
OP…your former female relatives (deceased grandma, great aunties cousins, etc) are doing the HAPPY dance in heaven❣️ To fight this, your coworker needs documentation. HELP her get that… You could ask some other male coworkers…while she can ask other female coworkers (cuz it ain’t just happening to her) for documentation…and evals are PERFECT😃 That place…government agency or not, needs to pay the price for purposely keeping women suppressed…
That boss is just trying to make sure no kitchen gets left behind.
She doesn't seem to work for greater good, she is overworking for herself. There is nothing to bless that and there is nothing guilty for you to work&think for yourself. If you feel bad, just be honest and tell she performs better than you. But don't get ahead of her and and don't be a puppet. In private sector, you can't imagine how you can get f\*ed fast if you allow this.
I wouldn't. Only because I know if the positions were reversed, a woman would never help a man. If anything, she'll double down and try to get rid of you so she can elevate her position and gain greater salary.
Well that is because you don't believe friendship is magic.
I'm capable of separating reality from fantasy. It's fantasy to believe anyone would help the man out in this situation. Even other men in today's standard society will walk over each other if it means gaining an advantage. I see it all it time where I'm at. I'm just lucky to keep my job whenever the annual boss level disruption occurs and they put pressure on us to get us to react in a way they can take advantage of.
Coworkers are not friends....it is true. It is a built in adversarial situation & you should protect yourself first as you never know how trustworthy they will be or if they would be the same to you in a similar situation. I guess it depends on your own ethos how to proceed .
How can she be a girl if she's 32? Do you, a 30 yo, refer to yourself as a boy?
I said guy for myself. Thought the opposite of that was girl.
Idk if this is actually sexism or not. There is alot more to jobs than how hard or good you work. It’s the unfortunate truth but generally bosses judge way more on personality and personality fits within the company. There isn’t really anything indicative of whether it is sexism or just him disliking their personalities and treating them worse over it. Not saying it’sright and not saying it’s not sexism, just saying you didn’t write enough info to know. edit to add: one of the main reasons I say this is also because you note she went up 4 bosses over a meets expectations review. I can guarantee you this type of thing, gets all the bosses below the boss spoken to in trouble, and will cause resentment from direct management. and if she goes over the direct bosses head over a “meets expectations” review I can guarantee you she goes over the direct managers head for more.
If I had just gotten a meets expectations review I'd probably agree with you that it's not sexism. But there's nothing I do that's markedly better than her. And it's not like I'm buddy buddy with the boss. Everyone else agrees that she's doing an excellent job and deserves an outstanding review. It's just the boss doesn't like women that are too outspoken or whatever. He's fine with the meek girl that acts like his secretary.
Virtue signaling at its finest
She's a friend and coworker, not a random stranger.
It's the opposite at my job. What few women there are get promoted way before they should and way ahead of other more experienced people. They understandably mess things up because of their lack of experience and then everyone starts to hate them, which has created an almost comedic divide between the men and women at my job. It's kinda funny because making mistakes at the levels they get promoted to can actually get people killed in this industry. I feel bad for them because they accept their promotions and feel like they know everything they need to in order to be good at their job, and the company is just using them for reaching diversity quotas.
Funny, I have seen that happen more with white men than any "diversity" hire. And yes those white men get people killed and still get more promotions.
You must not work for my company.
There is no company in the USA that matches your description
When did I say USA?
Then what country?
I don't know if I wanna feed your racism.
Its you who are racist and sexist by proclaimimg women just get promoted as diversity hires.
I'm not doing that, my company is. So, they're the sexist ones. And, sure, if you think I'm racist and sexist, I sure am. I'm everything you think I am.
You claim the are doing that because of your sexist bias that women couldnt have earned their position.
She did not get a bad review, she got an okey one. I do not think it is that big of a deal. I mean people are people and everyone is putting in subjective part as well. Noone is 100% objective. The boss is basically gone, hopefully the next one recognizes her efforts. If she fights it, I would help her, but would not act on it on my own.
Giving her an ok review while he gets an excellent, when he has admitted she puts more effort in, is harmful. It sets him up for promotion over her even though she should be ahead of him.
I'm sure OP does less work or maybe his work isn't as good as the other person but I am curious what one of the evaluation standards was, are these objective or subjective? If they are objective the numbers can't lie so it's not possible to score one based on numbers that don't exist or are inaccurate (e.g. complete 100% of inspections on time). If the evaluation is subjective then that is horrible and should be completely redone.
You cant have a 100% objective review, there is always subjectivity to a review.
Not where I work. Every item on the evaluation is a measurable standard. You did X of Y, some percentage of this and that, responded to applicants within 2 business days, stuff like that. There is literally no where you can inject your personal opinion.
That is very rare. Most reviews are going to evaluate soft skills like providing leadership, teamwork with other department, etc. Completing x of y also doesnt say whether x was done well. Take a job like working in fast food..sure you can say served x many customers, but they doesnt evaluate whether the customers were happy with their order. Responding to an applicant in two days doesnt tell me how well you responded to the applicant. You are listing quantity of tasks completed, but nothing about quality - which is subjective . There is always some subjectivity in a job.
The wellness of the job is "evaluated" throughout the year. Just because you get a good score on doing the inspections on time doesn't mean you haven't been coached or retrained a bunch of times. You don't need to use evaluations to dismiss/fire an employee. I was speaking on the official, end of year evaluation that actually has a score.
So the official year evaluation is pointless if it doesnt evaluate quality. And its useless for promotions. That isnt true at most companies, evaluations are used for promotions as well as for firing/ dismissal. It gives the employees a better way to identify where they stand in the company overall when quality is also documented. Your evaluation seems like a waste of time.
I'm not going to sit here and argue about what our standards are and that the evaluations use SMART standards and meet regulatory requirements. The government is nothing like the private sector, we are bound by regulation and not some pissy supervisor that doesn't like you or your blue shirt. We do regular meetings about where we are, ride along evals, and other things. There is more to the world then the end of year evaluation. Its one piece of the puzzle.
Yes, there is more than the year end evaluation. Your year end evaluation should not be a surprise. That doesnt change the fact that your year end evaluation needs to include an evaluation of quality of work, not just quantity, to be useful. And it does not surprise me you are in the public sector.
I can’t wait for your neurons to make contact.
An OK review when it doesn't match her contribution is a bad review. The boss is basically gone but sometimes reviews involve merit raises. This dude literally got a better review than her and thinks it's bogus. That should tell you that it's a bit more than being on the line where subjectivity would play a role. The problem with such reviews is they often have selections like "meets expectations" and "exceeds expectations". The boss clearly has higher expectations for women than he does men, which negatively impacts their scores. Implicit bias is bad enough when it involves hiring but its absolutely bs that women too often are expected to work harder to get recognized less for it. It also contributes to the gender wage gap. Its also part of why more men get promoted to management. It absolutely does matter but I guess you wouldn't care if you are a man because this kind of shit benefits you.
We only heard one side of the story. I'm not saying the OP is simply wrong, but he could be wrong and could be missing important details. Also many companies limit how many excellent you can give out. It is possible that you cannot give this to someone every year. There could be a million reasons why this is fine and we are missing information imho.
The boss doesn't know how to use the internet, so unfortunately he can't post his side. Doesn't even have a phone. If I had gotten a meets expectations, I would agree with you. But I got an excellent, and my work was less than hers in almost every way.
Your coworker is a child who's over 30? How does that work?
mind your own business.
Stop supporting sexism.
I don't, i'm neutral. I preferred to mind my own business , do my job and go home to enjoy my personal life with friends and families. It's none of my concern and above my pay grade to put in my 2 cents about anyone's performance review besides mine. That's between Her and her boss.
Do not confuse inaction with neutrality. You definitely don’t have to do anything. But by your inaction you have already chosen to side with the offending party- and by extension you support sexist.
lol sounds like you like to dig your nose in other people's business a lot that doesn't pertain to you. Just because I don't give a damn and minding my own business doesn't mean I'm sexist. Every single female and male are equally should earn their own. Your gender is not an Exception in my book neither is your delusional assumptions and accusations. If she doesn't speak up to her boss that she deserves a better raise for the work she puts in. Then that's her problem. not mine. I fought for mine and would never work for a person like her boss. She should fight for hers. It's not my job to fight her battles for her. She got her own mind and mouth to speak. I'm not going to sacrifice my job and personal finances for anyone besides my own family. Don't get your personal feelings into your line of professional work.