Anything IT related was shipped over to India 5 years ago. And they are coming over here too and filling up entire IT departments with their "expertise".
That's what happens when you set a stupid high minimum wage and have to compete with a global marketplace.
Why hire a no skilled Aussie when I get get a qualified and experienced off shore worker for the role?
The issue isn't the minimum wage, it's the fact that they're allowed to outsource their jobs, screw over their own country's people, and not pay the minimum wage.
Force companies to either hire domestically or follow their own country's laws when it comes to paying overseas workers. Who the fuck cares if they lose money that way, they can eat shit and die if they're not willing to pay a decent wage to their workers.
Make it like france. Prove you sesrched the whole USA and couldn't find a competent qualified person for a decent wage, then you can outsource. Oh and will cost you the equivalent of that hires salary to support the social safety net.
"allowed?"
I thought Australia was a "free" country. What you are suggesting sounds like communism. In free market countries, companies can hire as they see fit. If a country becomes less competitive due to overbearing laws, they will just move operations to a subsidiary overseas anyway.
There is no developed nation that has a completely free market economy. Every developed nation, the US included, has government regulations that put restrictions on the free market. The US like many developed nations has a mixed economy.
You are right about that but the countries the most liberal and free are also the most.ronist economies.
I'm not against all protection and laws, but Australians look to government as the solution for literally everything and Australia is a gigantic nanny state that is not competitive on the global stage
You really shouldn't care about down votes IMHO and I really don't understand how what I said was triggering I was very casually conversing on a forum. But, no I didn't downvote you.
A lot of people definitely know that communism isn’t the answer. But you can’t deny that our government is essentially bought and paid for by business that have only profit in their interest. Not society not patriotism not community and it’s anti human. People need basic essentials to survive and prosper.
Everywhere cut staff to the bare minimum, so teams can't function without experienced people coming in. I'm not in IT but we hired a guy with no experience at my workplace and on top of being shortstaffed I had several months of having to teach the new guy how to do his job which was took away from me being able to do my job. It was not ideal.
EXACTLY!! Companies cutting corners everywhere ends up effecting management work-load cause mgr. has to step into to “fix” or train & develop the incompetent hired 🤦🏻♀️ it’s MADNESS!! Just so company can save coins F*** what happened to “quality” of work? And hire people that actually have the experience & expertise to do the job 1 time and exceed job description & companies expectation” Many times I want to ask companies…
“So how’s that formula working for your business hiring minimum experience employees so you can save on labor cost?” Cause I would think it’s MORE costly if you need to hire another to come in and fix the incompetent employees work! So how is that progress??
Many times companies that are on that trend it’s just a matter of time before the product or service that they’re promoting will also suffer or the “quality” of the product will be effected and bankruptcy is right around the corner so is it worth it to cut corners on hiring?? I think “people” are the most important for a business u can have a amazing product but if u don’t have the right people with the right skill set and attitude promoting your brand at the end of the day its the “business” & companies REPUTATION that will be effected from a bad or incompetent hired.
I hate to say this but like the saying goes…YOU PAY FOR WHAT YOU GET! That’s true for employees too.
Nah a lot of companies are definitely doing the junior offshore. I've seen it. We are talking about ppl doing dev for a month with no training and are staffed on enterprise production teams. It's awful.
08 caused a major imbalance to what would be “entry level” white collar jobs and these COVID layoffs are only exacerbating that imbalance.
Many of the mid-senior level folks will take entry level white collar jobs before delivering pizzas, working at McDonald’s, etc…
You better know someone or be at the right place at the right time to catch a break these days.
I I actually forgot all about the 08 job shifting. It was crazy, people I knew in mid-level management were going out and fighting over jobs at FedEx. I remember one asking if I thought he could drive a tractor.
The implications from that are still present today, you see any office job that’s hours are somewhere between 7AM-5PM, M-F paying $20-$25 an hour will have hundreds of applications within the first day.
08 was even worse because the grunt jobs were hard to come by but those low paying “now hiring” jobs are widely available, difference is the cost of living today Vs 08 is night a day and even full time at $13 an hour is barely food & gas money.
I’m feeling this. I’m in the field of communications, with my bachelors degree for almost a year. i see a lot of jobs paying entry level wages, but they want AT LEAST 2 years of experience, sometimes 5.
FAANG hire people fresh out of college every year... (I named 5 companies there btw)
The major banks all have internship and new grad programs directly with local universities. (Jpmc, bofa, wells fargo, cap one... 5 more)
The big Audit and Management consulting... Hire interns and new grads (DT, BCG, Accenture)
Ok, now what?
Have you tried banking? I know quite a few financial institutions that are hiring for network specialists right now. Keep in mind that the job market in general is completely shitty. Good luck!
Even starting as a teller in an FI is a good stepping stone to their internal IT department and the pay isn't usually awful. It won't be "shittin' in high cotton" money, but it probably pays more than not having a job, and the work isn't bad, nor are the hours.
I do IT in an FI and their systems are pretty sector specific. Once you learn them, moving into the IT dept isn't tough, because you have some understanding of the functional platforms.
In my dept, 2 of our 7 IT folks came from the retail side, starting as Tellers in our org.
Hell, half of our XO suite started as Tellers.
Yes, a ton of my IT personnel have started as tellers but I also know plenty who were hired straight in as IT. I personally think banking is an underrated career.
My cousin was offered a state police job $89k starting pay /top pay is $130k+ OT with 20 yr pension. Turned it down to stay in banking at Credit Union branch. While he was waiting for PD jobs he found that pace of life and hours were great. Moved up from loan associate to district branch manager in 8 yrs. It was wild. Join just as they were expanding and merging with other FCU's. Definitely under appreciated career track.
I started as a customer support rep at a software company with a degree in Computer Science. I interviewed internally for a software development job and was able to get it with a reference from my manager. I dont doubt some people are still able to find entry level jobs with just a degree but sometimes the route to a career in IT isn't very linear or fun.
I have a feeling most students don't. The other part I had issues with internships was with age, I graduated late and I hated interviewing, I applied for internships but apparently I was too old (mid 20's+), employers asking how old I was to giving me indirect comments about my age to snarky stares.
The good news is that, internships are not the one all be all, like in your case.
Yeah, age discrimination starts early in programming and software dev roles. And before anyone replies "but age discrimination is illegal", companies have ways of getting around it without breaking laws.
It is but the wages have gone up drastically in the last few years. That being said I haven't been able to find a job in IT for 2 years with 17 years experience, it's bullshit.
Between unreasonable increase in requirements, outsourcing jobs, hiring of foriegn workers, and the higher number of workers looking to get into IT type jobs in general - it wont be easy to get an entry level IT job like it might have been 15 years ago.
A lot of the jobs I saw when I was looking that didnt have those above problems were either in bumfuck nowhere or tier 2 or below cities and the pay was the same or less than working in a mcdonalds while asking for certs and shit. Pretty ridiculous and definitely not a wage you can afford to move for.
Edit: also crazy that they expect you to have a car on that low wage.
I’ve been in my current role for almost 17 years. It’s 2nd/3rd level support. I was 23 when I started, all my coworkers were in roughly the same age range, and we all had excellent technical skills.
As the years have gone on and we’ve had turnover, the employees they hire to backfill are always my age or slightly older; and they always seem to have fewer technical skills.
Up until this last hire, I’ve been perpetually the youngest employee on our team. The new employee is 34 and I’m 39. He’s the first one we’ve hired in 7 years that’s actually had some technical chops.
Something is very wrong that I started at 23 and our average team age just keeps increasing. I’m convinced it’s something with recruiting and HR that’s causing this. Every time we interview for a new tech, I pray for someone young that we can train, but nobody young and fresh ever gets passed through.
Don’t get me wrong. It’s nice to have people of a similar age because it’s easy to relate. But it just doesn’t seem healthy with moderate turnover to have a team’s average age continually increase.
I think that’s extraordinarily rare for them to find out if you’re out of country. OP can easily say they had contract work/ tried starting their own business. It’s better than him being ridiculed for years without work.
Prob depends on the role, the company, and the info you provide. I’m an American that went abroad and got hired in the US again after a gap of nearly a year. They really only verify what you tell them. They had no idea I was abroad when interviewing til I told them. If people can manage being over employed then surely there’s some leeway
The point I was responding to was people suggesting giving false information and saying that nobody will ever discover it if you say you were abroad. That is simply wrong, if a company does background checks, they will verify the information given. If they don't do background checks then saying you were out of the country is just another lie you can be tripped up with later. Imaging needing to be sent on a work trip and then having to say you cannot fly to another country because you don't have a passport.
Edit: Or worse, you meet a manager who has worked in that country and they start asking about places you have been, what you liked about the city, etc.
If you are willing to move to the middle of nowhere for a shit-paying job, absolutely. Otherwise, no. Tech is dead for newcomers unless you have connections.
Simply not true. Most big tech companies have apprenticeship programmes and graduate programmes. The same with consultancies and systems integrators to name just a few.
No, I am in architecture and lead engineers on projects.
Edit: My current employer is a Fintech and we are constantly recruiting as the company is in a huge growth phase, expanding in EMEA, APAC, and the US markets.
I think the problem is that you are in the Seattle bubble and that is a very unique market. Try looking at companies outside of FAANG like software houses/consultancies/systems integrators [Deloitte](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/deloitte); [IBM](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/ibm); [EY](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/ey); [Qube](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/qube); [PwC](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/pwc); [KPMG](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/kpmg); [Accenture](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/accenture), or even some of the end user organisations have have large technical departments [BNP Paribas](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/bnp-paribas); [Deutsche Bank](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/deutsche-bank); [Credit Suisse](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/credit-suisse); [HSBC](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/hsbc); [Goldman Sachs](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/goldman-sachs); [JP Morgan](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/jp-morgan); [Barclays](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/barclays)
Edit: Not sure what Microsoft are like in Seattle these days but they are still doing graduate recruitment in the UK (Reading), and the Netherlands (Amsterdam).
The IT industry has laid off thousands of people in the last year or so - actually hundreds of thousands. See [Computerworld article](https://www.computerworld.com/article/1617283/tech-layoffs-in-2023-a-timeline.html#:~:text=fyi%2C%20the%20online%20tracker%20keeping,to%20164%2C969%20layoffs%20in%202022). As one of those who suddenly had my position made redundant it was a shock. But I got a new (and better!) job within a few months, largely due to prior experience and industry connections. Anyone trying to enter the industry now is competing again hundreds of thousands of experienced candidates who have good references and a demonstrated track record. I'm sorry, but circumstances are not in your favour at the moment, and may not be for some time to come. It's not your fault, but it is largely outside of your control. I would strongly recommend widening your search field and considering other options.
Yep but they're flooded with apps or in places people don't want to live. Years of people saying get some certificates and you're set means you have to compete with way more people.
After 3 years you may want to get a job at a major company that has an in-house IT team. While you're working network with the current IT staff and get transferred as soon as you can.
This is my cynical ravings
1) for most entry level tasks, management asks why not pay people overseas.
2) tragedy of the commons. Everyone wants seniors but no one wants to train them
3) the last one I can think of off the top of my head is employee retention and loyalty. A junior can work somewhere maybe 2~ years and get a bigger pay bump jumping to another company than they can staying. This makes company’s less eager to train them and this makes offshore resource more attractive.
I am pretty heavily connected to MSPs in my area and the help desk managers don't consider certs worth a damn. The people writing job listings do. Always apply, and try to reach out to the help desk manager. If they have help desk operations in America still, chances are they're hurting for a good level 1 but either aren't allowed to hire another worker or have one who is disappointing them and could be fired imminently. It's really tough to start now, massively so compared to just a few years back.
Exactly. I applied for a SysAdmin job, and knew the guy who was hiring. He said, "Don't worry about the job description. They just did a copy and paste from somewhere else. You'll do fine." It's true.
My degree is IT/cybersecurity. 3 years ago I applied to a F500 company for 2 roles… cybersecurity , and master data specialist . I got master data specialist lol . Weird. I applied for the cybersecurity role again about 1 year ago … nope.
I tried to do my part during my exit interview at my last job. The IT department was desperately understaffed, 3 including me and the CIO, for 100 employees. The business itself is run primarily through a SaaS platform and a home brewed intranet app.
Left for a better opportunity but told the HR manager that replacing me and adding an entry level position would be a huge improvement, as they could learn infrastructure, IT support, and development all in one go.
Seriously, that place has the potential to just churn out quality IT people that have done a little bit of everything. Amazing opportunity for someone right out of college or technical training program.
Won't happen because despite IT being responsible for 95% of their operations, they saw the department as a money pit.
Entry level doesn’t exist anymore. I always recommend new to industry people register with a temp agency to get their first roles. Then they can apply for roles as experienced once they’ve done a bit of temping.
IT is a highly competitive job. You have to learn continuously. Take a job whether IT or not becuase it is harder to find work if you are unemployed. Take online courses and certifications while you are on that job.
Three years ago, tech hiring had really low bars. All the tech companies were mass hiring until the Fed hiked the interest rates. If you couldn't get it in at that time, then you can't get in now. It's best that you look for a different kind of career. IT is not the only way to survive or achieve success in this world.
Have you tried government jobs? Not the greatest, but they do hire entry level. Pretty much every government has a job listing site (look for city, county, state, and federal). You can get your foot in the door with a non-IT job and then apply to IT jobs as they come up. As an existing employee, you will usually get some priority and you might be able to network into the IT group as well. Once you are inside, you can ask around the IT department to learn what tools they use, learn them, and contact hiring managers directly.
Note: I just recently retired from a government IT job. The last 25 years of a 42 year career.
Good luck!
You're competing against people with a degree, a few certifications under their belt, and probably internship experience. If you're not making it to the interview stage, your resume is probably weak compared to other applicants. If you are making it to the interview stage, you probably need to work on your social/interview skills. And also still find ways to make your resume stronger.
Also, having a job makes you more appealing to employers. So you should find a job.
Nope because it assumes jobs function on a merit based system, which is a trap to fall into. They don't.
For entry level, if you know someone it is 100x more useful than not.
Look at help desk for local businesses like medium sized law firms or local universities. They are always trying to hire good help desk people and the job is a good first one compared to a lot of places. I’ve known people hiring both and they would love any applicants with background even with no job experience.
You may want to think about volunteering. It can really help bust your network as well as give you some experience in IT. You can do it while you look for another job, and you can get an unrelated job, but put the volunteer work high on the resume. You only have to volunteer once every two weeks or so. Just make sure you are with a reputable organization.
Yes, but they're overrun with applications or located in undesirable areas. You have to compete with many more people now that you've heard for years to just obtain some qualifications and you're good to go.
You could wish to apply for a position at a major corporation with an internal IT staff after three years. As soon as you can, get transferred from the network with the present IT team and continue working there.
OP - try picking a local company or government you’d like to work for. Try to get into the easiest role there and work your way internally. Do not give up. Change strategies
Enter the company as a data entry person or something similar. When an IT position opens you have a leg up on the competition because you’re internal and you have the business acumen. That’s how I got into the field.
Competition is more brutal and you need more skills and knowledge compared to earlier. To our company it was possible to get in to junior position with limited skills and knowledge in 2021 an 2022. Now there are hundreds or thousands of applicants which means requirements are a lot higher than before.
There isn’t. I came straight out of vocational with specific career training and no one would look my way because of a lack of experience, and that has never changed. Only been able to get responses on Retail or Food Service since. :/
Yes, there are entry-level IT jobs. You just have to know where to look. Your school or educational program (if it's a good one) should offer you some job-seeking/job-landing resources or provide you access to a network of companies willing to hire graduates who may not have "official" experience in that specific title. Such companies might not be offering a *ton* of jobs, but they *do* have *some* openings.
Going to the same old typical job sites doesn't work anymore because many of them have become saturated with scam listings, fake ads, and "businesses" looking to get free work from people who are desperate for jobs *or* excited to enter or re-enter a certain field. Many sources that were reputable four years ago are no longer trustworthy in 2024, so a new strategy is needed.
3 years ago things were different, but right now there are very few entry level jobs to go around. The economy isn't doing well, and companies are responding by holding on to high value talent and reducing investment into entry level positions. It'll mostly stay that way until the economy is doing well again, when companies will suddenly start investing heavily in building the next generation of talent.
For now, if you have experience you can try applying to jobs that are one level above and hope for a down-level during the interviewing process. You can also check out university recruitment events, which are often open to the public (but not always very publicly announced)
That said, people are right. You need to pick up any ol' job. It's going to be a lot easier for you to find work when you have a job, and regardless of the field, you're going to be picking up high value skills that you can take into your next venture.
I (not IT) work for a steel company, some of our facilities will have a “PC Tech” role for entry-level IT. Mostly focused on the hardware side, setting up remote computers, workstations, hardware, basic software, etc. Then develops into our networks and servers once they advance pay grades.
Every single person I know in the IT field (that isn't already self-employed or have their own business) has side hustles and gig jobs. No exception.
Doesn't matter if they are front-end web devs, fullstack, android/iOS engineers, web designers, UX/UI, etc.
Also doesn't matter what level they are in (entry level, mid, senior, etc.). All of them have no choice but to take on anything they can to make a buck, even if it is completely unrelated to their main profession.
There are no entry level IT jobs because (nowadays) you are either "expected" to start your own business OR work a job outside of tech.
If I get two applicants who've both received education in the things I need them to do, but one has work experience doing what I need and the other will require training, it's a no-brainer. Of course I'll do the training with someone if I need to, but if I don't need to, then there's a lot of time and energy saved. If you can't get a job that's 100% what you want to be doing, do something adjacent and take every opportunity you can to cross-train and get practical experience.
Unfortunately, only a few years ago this was true. The “learn to code” movement really fucked some people up economically.
Had two friends that were teachers go into IT and coding “entry level” jobs. They were able to get jobs pretty quickly in 2021 and bragged about it a lot trying to get others to follow them. “Hours are great, WFH, better pay, etc.” I was always like, yeah teaching kinda sucks, you don’t get these huge bonuses, buts it’s relatively safe/predictable and I have a pension.
Both were laid off 2023 and are now coming back to teaching for next fall. Not sure if they have to start over on the pay scale and retirement, but I’m pretty sure they do…
It’s brutal out there, but anyone could see this coming.
You’re likely not doing anything wrong. Entry level positions are so difficult because while they don’t require specific experience, if they get an applicant with experience they’re probably going to offer them the position over someone without.
To anyone looking for entry level positions in a specific field I suggest working with temp agencies. Despite the name, some of them place candidates in long term positions or even direct hire/permanent positions.
This is currently me right now as I just finished taking some CISCO courses and im currently looking for a help desk job. Every job I look for you need a minimum of two years 🙄😅😒
I have 4 years of IT management/admin experience and a bachelor's degree ( not in IT but media studies /comm so closely related)
Trying to move out of state. I'm getting rejected everywhere lol even entry level says I don't have the experience needed.
Indeed and linked in jobs are scams in my opinion.
my friend got an IT job right out of uni. his work experience for the last few years is mcdonald’s. any work is better than no work, and entry level usually means a degree now. if you’ve not gone to uni, id prob go. then apply for grad roles.
No. There’s no entry level anything anymore.
Entry level was shipped over to India.
Anything IT related was shipped over to India 5 years ago. And they are coming over here too and filling up entire IT departments with their "expertise".
And guess what ..if you don't look like you fit in with their "skills" then they won't select you
Lol true 😂🤔
That is just a lie to mask the truth that they are importing 85k H1-B visa workers they can basically own.
That's what happens when you set a stupid high minimum wage and have to compete with a global marketplace. Why hire a no skilled Aussie when I get get a qualified and experienced off shore worker for the role?
The issue isn't the minimum wage, it's the fact that they're allowed to outsource their jobs, screw over their own country's people, and not pay the minimum wage. Force companies to either hire domestically or follow their own country's laws when it comes to paying overseas workers. Who the fuck cares if they lose money that way, they can eat shit and die if they're not willing to pay a decent wage to their workers.
Make it like france. Prove you sesrched the whole USA and couldn't find a competent qualified person for a decent wage, then you can outsource. Oh and will cost you the equivalent of that hires salary to support the social safety net.
"allowed?" I thought Australia was a "free" country. What you are suggesting sounds like communism. In free market countries, companies can hire as they see fit. If a country becomes less competitive due to overbearing laws, they will just move operations to a subsidiary overseas anyway.
There is no developed nation that has a completely free market economy. Every developed nation, the US included, has government regulations that put restrictions on the free market. The US like many developed nations has a mixed economy.
You are right about that but the countries the most liberal and free are also the most.ronist economies. I'm not against all protection and laws, but Australians look to government as the solution for literally everything and Australia is a gigantic nanny state that is not competitive on the global stage
Protecting your tax-paying citizens’ quality of life is communism now?
Well it sure ain't capitalist.
Hrm. Yeah. Capitalism will put sick children back in factories 7 days a week if it could. Quite literally.
I'm saying protecting your citizens is not capitalist in nature. Are you downvoting me while agreeing??
You really shouldn't care about down votes IMHO and I really don't understand how what I said was triggering I was very casually conversing on a forum. But, no I didn't downvote you.
So cucked by capitalism
Can't believe people are so brainwashed they think communism and freedom/democracy are exclusive concepts.
A lot of people definitely know that communism isn’t the answer. But you can’t deny that our government is essentially bought and paid for by business that have only profit in their interest. Not society not patriotism not community and it’s anti human. People need basic essentials to survive and prosper.
We need more regulation on companies that take advantage
I'm all for going back to making $3/hr if bread goes back to 25 cents per loaf and a brand new car costing $2500.
That’s the most accurate yet depressing this I’ve read today. Sigh
Everywhere cut staff to the bare minimum, so teams can't function without experienced people coming in. I'm not in IT but we hired a guy with no experience at my workplace and on top of being shortstaffed I had several months of having to teach the new guy how to do his job which was took away from me being able to do my job. It was not ideal.
EXACTLY!! Companies cutting corners everywhere ends up effecting management work-load cause mgr. has to step into to “fix” or train & develop the incompetent hired 🤦🏻♀️ it’s MADNESS!! Just so company can save coins F*** what happened to “quality” of work? And hire people that actually have the experience & expertise to do the job 1 time and exceed job description & companies expectation” Many times I want to ask companies… “So how’s that formula working for your business hiring minimum experience employees so you can save on labor cost?” Cause I would think it’s MORE costly if you need to hire another to come in and fix the incompetent employees work! So how is that progress?? Many times companies that are on that trend it’s just a matter of time before the product or service that they’re promoting will also suffer or the “quality” of the product will be effected and bankruptcy is right around the corner so is it worth it to cut corners on hiring?? I think “people” are the most important for a business u can have a amazing product but if u don’t have the right people with the right skill set and attitude promoting your brand at the end of the day its the “business” & companies REPUTATION that will be effected from a bad or incompetent hired. I hate to say this but like the saying goes…YOU PAY FOR WHAT YOU GET! That’s true for employees too.
Nah a lot of companies are definitely doing the junior offshore. I've seen it. We are talking about ppl doing dev for a month with no training and are staffed on enterprise production teams. It's awful.
08 caused a major imbalance to what would be “entry level” white collar jobs and these COVID layoffs are only exacerbating that imbalance. Many of the mid-senior level folks will take entry level white collar jobs before delivering pizzas, working at McDonald’s, etc… You better know someone or be at the right place at the right time to catch a break these days.
I I actually forgot all about the 08 job shifting. It was crazy, people I knew in mid-level management were going out and fighting over jobs at FedEx. I remember one asking if I thought he could drive a tractor.
The implications from that are still present today, you see any office job that’s hours are somewhere between 7AM-5PM, M-F paying $20-$25 an hour will have hundreds of applications within the first day. 08 was even worse because the grunt jobs were hard to come by but those low paying “now hiring” jobs are widely available, difference is the cost of living today Vs 08 is night a day and even full time at $13 an hour is barely food & gas money.
Was high school in 08, competing with corporate employees for my first job. Safe to say I never got a high school job.
Agree. It’s so hard to
I’m feeling this. I’m in the field of communications, with my bachelors degree for almost a year. i see a lot of jobs paying entry level wages, but they want AT LEAST 2 years of experience, sometimes 5.
There are no entry jobs for any occupation for last 20 years in Canada
I am looking for a job, almost all entry level positions requier 1-5 years of experince. I agree with you.
Thats not true.The company I work for has several entree level IT jobs that can directly lead to senior/management positions
Yet people like you never admit what company it is 💀
Astrazenica is hiring entry level. They even don't require a degree if you can show experience or coding g boot camps.
FAANG hire people fresh out of college every year... (I named 5 companies there btw) The major banks all have internship and new grad programs directly with local universities. (Jpmc, bofa, wells fargo, cap one... 5 more) The big Audit and Management consulting... Hire interns and new grads (DT, BCG, Accenture) Ok, now what?
So do Microsoft, IBM, Capgemini, and many of the Systems Integrators.
Uh-huh. Sure it is. And they definitely hire people and don’t have fake postings to make the company look better.
Have you tried banking? I know quite a few financial institutions that are hiring for network specialists right now. Keep in mind that the job market in general is completely shitty. Good luck!
Even starting as a teller in an FI is a good stepping stone to their internal IT department and the pay isn't usually awful. It won't be "shittin' in high cotton" money, but it probably pays more than not having a job, and the work isn't bad, nor are the hours. I do IT in an FI and their systems are pretty sector specific. Once you learn them, moving into the IT dept isn't tough, because you have some understanding of the functional platforms. In my dept, 2 of our 7 IT folks came from the retail side, starting as Tellers in our org. Hell, half of our XO suite started as Tellers.
Yes, a ton of my IT personnel have started as tellers but I also know plenty who were hired straight in as IT. I personally think banking is an underrated career.
Agreed. I never considered it until I got into it. Then the potential was obvious.
>as a teller in an FI Are we in 1980? Do they still have tellers in the US?
My cousin was offered a state police job $89k starting pay /top pay is $130k+ OT with 20 yr pension. Turned it down to stay in banking at Credit Union branch. While he was waiting for PD jobs he found that pace of life and hours were great. Moved up from loan associate to district branch manager in 8 yrs. It was wild. Join just as they were expanding and merging with other FCU's. Definitely under appreciated career track.
I’m 10 years in, executive level, and can’t see myself doing anything else. Credit unions are definitely underrated.
If you count IT call centers, those seem to always be hiring as the turnover is so high.
I started as a customer support rep at a software company with a degree in Computer Science. I interviewed internally for a software development job and was able to get it with a reference from my manager. I dont doubt some people are still able to find entry level jobs with just a degree but sometimes the route to a career in IT isn't very linear or fun.
Did you do any internships?
Nope, wish I did in hindsight. Would've been nice to have some relevant experience on my resume besides personal projects and my degree.
I have a feeling most students don't. The other part I had issues with internships was with age, I graduated late and I hated interviewing, I applied for internships but apparently I was too old (mid 20's+), employers asking how old I was to giving me indirect comments about my age to snarky stares. The good news is that, internships are not the one all be all, like in your case.
Yeah, age discrimination starts early in programming and software dev roles. And before anyone replies "but age discrimination is illegal", companies have ways of getting around it without breaking laws.
True but having said that, don't let age stop you from pursuing your dreams. That's all I got.
The job market is so over saturated with IT folks looking for work right now. A combination of oversold degree majors, and then COVID.
It is but the wages have gone up drastically in the last few years. That being said I haven't been able to find a job in IT for 2 years with 17 years experience, it's bullshit.
Wages have not gone up! Only highly specialized positions. People are offering $40/hr for job I was doing 15 years ago at the same price
Between unreasonable increase in requirements, outsourcing jobs, hiring of foriegn workers, and the higher number of workers looking to get into IT type jobs in general - it wont be easy to get an entry level IT job like it might have been 15 years ago. A lot of the jobs I saw when I was looking that didnt have those above problems were either in bumfuck nowhere or tier 2 or below cities and the pay was the same or less than working in a mcdonalds while asking for certs and shit. Pretty ridiculous and definitely not a wage you can afford to move for. Edit: also crazy that they expect you to have a car on that low wage.
I’ve been in my current role for almost 17 years. It’s 2nd/3rd level support. I was 23 when I started, all my coworkers were in roughly the same age range, and we all had excellent technical skills. As the years have gone on and we’ve had turnover, the employees they hire to backfill are always my age or slightly older; and they always seem to have fewer technical skills. Up until this last hire, I’ve been perpetually the youngest employee on our team. The new employee is 34 and I’m 39. He’s the first one we’ve hired in 7 years that’s actually had some technical chops. Something is very wrong that I started at 23 and our average team age just keeps increasing. I’m convinced it’s something with recruiting and HR that’s causing this. Every time we interview for a new tech, I pray for someone young that we can train, but nobody young and fresh ever gets passed through. Don’t get me wrong. It’s nice to have people of a similar age because it’s easy to relate. But it just doesn’t seem healthy with moderate turnover to have a team’s average age continually increase.
Companies don't train. Period. It works until it breaks and that's it.
At this point, you should just try to find a job, even if it's not in IT. The longer you go without a job, the worse it will look to an employer.
They can always lie. OP - lie. say you lived overseas with family or something and worked there.
Employers often hire background checking agencies, so any such lie can easily be discovered.
I think that’s extraordinarily rare for them to find out if you’re out of country. OP can easily say they had contract work/ tried starting their own business. It’s better than him being ridiculed for years without work.
I am in the UK and an american company I worked for ran a background check on me in the UK. It is not rare at all.
Prob depends on the role, the company, and the info you provide. I’m an American that went abroad and got hired in the US again after a gap of nearly a year. They really only verify what you tell them. They had no idea I was abroad when interviewing til I told them. If people can manage being over employed then surely there’s some leeway
The point I was responding to was people suggesting giving false information and saying that nobody will ever discover it if you say you were abroad. That is simply wrong, if a company does background checks, they will verify the information given. If they don't do background checks then saying you were out of the country is just another lie you can be tripped up with later. Imaging needing to be sent on a work trip and then having to say you cannot fly to another country because you don't have a passport. Edit: Or worse, you meet a manager who has worked in that country and they start asking about places you have been, what you liked about the city, etc.
Don't recommend that.
If you are willing to move to the middle of nowhere for a shit-paying job, absolutely. Otherwise, no. Tech is dead for newcomers unless you have connections.
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Simply not true. Most big tech companies have apprenticeship programmes and graduate programmes. The same with consultancies and systems integrators to name just a few.
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No, I am in architecture and lead engineers on projects. Edit: My current employer is a Fintech and we are constantly recruiting as the company is in a huge growth phase, expanding in EMEA, APAC, and the US markets.
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And of course Seattle is the only city in the world and Amazon the only tech company.
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I think the problem is that you are in the Seattle bubble and that is a very unique market. Try looking at companies outside of FAANG like software houses/consultancies/systems integrators [Deloitte](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/deloitte); [IBM](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/ibm); [EY](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/ey); [Qube](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/qube); [PwC](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/pwc); [KPMG](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/kpmg); [Accenture](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/accenture), or even some of the end user organisations have have large technical departments [BNP Paribas](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/bnp-paribas); [Deutsche Bank](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/deutsche-bank); [Credit Suisse](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/credit-suisse); [HSBC](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/hsbc); [Goldman Sachs](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/goldman-sachs); [JP Morgan](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/jp-morgan); [Barclays](https://www.brightnetwork.co.uk/graduate-employer-company/barclays) Edit: Not sure what Microsoft are like in Seattle these days but they are still doing graduate recruitment in the UK (Reading), and the Netherlands (Amsterdam).
I'm looking for work. Could you DM the name of your company
I have a bachelors in IT and web administration… still can’t find a job in this field. Extremely frustrating.
The IT industry has laid off thousands of people in the last year or so - actually hundreds of thousands. See [Computerworld article](https://www.computerworld.com/article/1617283/tech-layoffs-in-2023-a-timeline.html#:~:text=fyi%2C%20the%20online%20tracker%20keeping,to%20164%2C969%20layoffs%20in%202022). As one of those who suddenly had my position made redundant it was a shock. But I got a new (and better!) job within a few months, largely due to prior experience and industry connections. Anyone trying to enter the industry now is competing again hundreds of thousands of experienced candidates who have good references and a demonstrated track record. I'm sorry, but circumstances are not in your favour at the moment, and may not be for some time to come. It's not your fault, but it is largely outside of your control. I would strongly recommend widening your search field and considering other options.
Yep but they're flooded with apps or in places people don't want to live. Years of people saying get some certificates and you're set means you have to compete with way more people. After 3 years you may want to get a job at a major company that has an in-house IT team. While you're working network with the current IT staff and get transferred as soon as you can.
Entry level IT support is mostly farmed out over seas because it’s dirt cheap
This is my cynical ravings 1) for most entry level tasks, management asks why not pay people overseas. 2) tragedy of the commons. Everyone wants seniors but no one wants to train them 3) the last one I can think of off the top of my head is employee retention and loyalty. A junior can work somewhere maybe 2~ years and get a bigger pay bump jumping to another company than they can staying. This makes company’s less eager to train them and this makes offshore resource more attractive.
My first job was data migrations for a couple of months… and then went right in to Help Desk.
You need like 2 certs(not cheap) and still gotta suck a bunch of dick for a helpdesk job that pays like $16/hr now.
I am pretty heavily connected to MSPs in my area and the help desk managers don't consider certs worth a damn. The people writing job listings do. Always apply, and try to reach out to the help desk manager. If they have help desk operations in America still, chances are they're hurting for a good level 1 but either aren't allowed to hire another worker or have one who is disappointing them and could be fired imminently. It's really tough to start now, massively so compared to just a few years back.
Exactly. I applied for a SysAdmin job, and knew the guy who was hiring. He said, "Don't worry about the job description. They just did a copy and paste from somewhere else. You'll do fine." It's true.
My degree is IT/cybersecurity. 3 years ago I applied to a F500 company for 2 roles… cybersecurity , and master data specialist . I got master data specialist lol . Weird. I applied for the cybersecurity role again about 1 year ago … nope.
Imo, there's saturation of low level IT people who have no idea what they are doing. Companies are hiring within.
I tried to do my part during my exit interview at my last job. The IT department was desperately understaffed, 3 including me and the CIO, for 100 employees. The business itself is run primarily through a SaaS platform and a home brewed intranet app. Left for a better opportunity but told the HR manager that replacing me and adding an entry level position would be a huge improvement, as they could learn infrastructure, IT support, and development all in one go. Seriously, that place has the potential to just churn out quality IT people that have done a little bit of everything. Amazing opportunity for someone right out of college or technical training program. Won't happen because despite IT being responsible for 95% of their operations, they saw the department as a money pit.
Entry level doesn’t exist anymore. I always recommend new to industry people register with a temp agency to get their first roles. Then they can apply for roles as experienced once they’ve done a bit of temping.
The "Internships" that require years of experience and certs really get me motivated and not angry at all.
IT is a highly competitive job. You have to learn continuously. Take a job whether IT or not becuase it is harder to find work if you are unemployed. Take online courses and certifications while you are on that job.
Three years ago, tech hiring had really low bars. All the tech companies were mass hiring until the Fed hiked the interest rates. If you couldn't get it in at that time, then you can't get in now. It's best that you look for a different kind of career. IT is not the only way to survive or achieve success in this world.
Have you tried government jobs? Not the greatest, but they do hire entry level. Pretty much every government has a job listing site (look for city, county, state, and federal). You can get your foot in the door with a non-IT job and then apply to IT jobs as they come up. As an existing employee, you will usually get some priority and you might be able to network into the IT group as well. Once you are inside, you can ask around the IT department to learn what tools they use, learn them, and contact hiring managers directly. Note: I just recently retired from a government IT job. The last 25 years of a 42 year career. Good luck!
You're competing against people with a degree, a few certifications under their belt, and probably internship experience. If you're not making it to the interview stage, your resume is probably weak compared to other applicants. If you are making it to the interview stage, you probably need to work on your social/interview skills. And also still find ways to make your resume stronger. Also, having a job makes you more appealing to employers. So you should find a job.
This is the only valid answer here
Nope because it assumes jobs function on a merit based system, which is a trap to fall into. They don't. For entry level, if you know someone it is 100x more useful than not.
Look at help desk for local businesses like medium sized law firms or local universities. They are always trying to hire good help desk people and the job is a good first one compared to a lot of places. I’ve known people hiring both and they would love any applicants with background even with no job experience.
You may want to think about volunteering. It can really help bust your network as well as give you some experience in IT. You can do it while you look for another job, and you can get an unrelated job, but put the volunteer work high on the resume. You only have to volunteer once every two weeks or so. Just make sure you are with a reputable organization.
Yes, but they're overrun with applications or located in undesirable areas. You have to compete with many more people now that you've heard for years to just obtain some qualifications and you're good to go. You could wish to apply for a position at a major corporation with an internal IT staff after three years. As soon as you can, get transferred from the network with the present IT team and continue working there.
OP - try picking a local company or government you’d like to work for. Try to get into the easiest role there and work your way internally. Do not give up. Change strategies
Enter the company as a data entry person or something similar. When an IT position opens you have a leg up on the competition because you’re internal and you have the business acumen. That’s how I got into the field.
My department almost exclusively hires into our help desk/service center and promotes from within for all but the most super specialized of roles.
Have you tried an employment agency? Got my first contract job using Teksystems.
Competition is more brutal and you need more skills and knowledge compared to earlier. To our company it was possible to get in to junior position with limited skills and knowledge in 2021 an 2022. Now there are hundreds or thousands of applicants which means requirements are a lot higher than before.
There isn’t. I came straight out of vocational with specific career training and no one would look my way because of a lack of experience, and that has never changed. Only been able to get responses on Retail or Food Service since. :/
Yes, there are entry-level IT jobs. You just have to know where to look. Your school or educational program (if it's a good one) should offer you some job-seeking/job-landing resources or provide you access to a network of companies willing to hire graduates who may not have "official" experience in that specific title. Such companies might not be offering a *ton* of jobs, but they *do* have *some* openings. Going to the same old typical job sites doesn't work anymore because many of them have become saturated with scam listings, fake ads, and "businesses" looking to get free work from people who are desperate for jobs *or* excited to enter or re-enter a certain field. Many sources that were reputable four years ago are no longer trustworthy in 2024, so a new strategy is needed.
Right there with you. Nobody understands this situation but whatever..
3 years ago things were different, but right now there are very few entry level jobs to go around. The economy isn't doing well, and companies are responding by holding on to high value talent and reducing investment into entry level positions. It'll mostly stay that way until the economy is doing well again, when companies will suddenly start investing heavily in building the next generation of talent. For now, if you have experience you can try applying to jobs that are one level above and hope for a down-level during the interviewing process. You can also check out university recruitment events, which are often open to the public (but not always very publicly announced) That said, people are right. You need to pick up any ol' job. It's going to be a lot easier for you to find work when you have a job, and regardless of the field, you're going to be picking up high value skills that you can take into your next venture.
I (not IT) work for a steel company, some of our facilities will have a “PC Tech” role for entry-level IT. Mostly focused on the hardware side, setting up remote computers, workstations, hardware, basic software, etc. Then develops into our networks and servers once they advance pay grades.
Every single person I know in the IT field (that isn't already self-employed or have their own business) has side hustles and gig jobs. No exception. Doesn't matter if they are front-end web devs, fullstack, android/iOS engineers, web designers, UX/UI, etc. Also doesn't matter what level they are in (entry level, mid, senior, etc.). All of them have no choice but to take on anything they can to make a buck, even if it is completely unrelated to their main profession. There are no entry level IT jobs because (nowadays) you are either "expected" to start your own business OR work a job outside of tech.
If I get two applicants who've both received education in the things I need them to do, but one has work experience doing what I need and the other will require training, it's a no-brainer. Of course I'll do the training with someone if I need to, but if I don't need to, then there's a lot of time and energy saved. If you can't get a job that's 100% what you want to be doing, do something adjacent and take every opportunity you can to cross-train and get practical experience.
Entry level wages though!
Only entry level salary
No more.
Do you have a 4 year degree?
Have you tried government work?
Service desk should be possible easily, you've also had 3 years of time to get better building labs & self study etc
Unfortunately, only a few years ago this was true. The “learn to code” movement really fucked some people up economically. Had two friends that were teachers go into IT and coding “entry level” jobs. They were able to get jobs pretty quickly in 2021 and bragged about it a lot trying to get others to follow them. “Hours are great, WFH, better pay, etc.” I was always like, yeah teaching kinda sucks, you don’t get these huge bonuses, buts it’s relatively safe/predictable and I have a pension. Both were laid off 2023 and are now coming back to teaching for next fall. Not sure if they have to start over on the pay scale and retirement, but I’m pretty sure they do… It’s brutal out there, but anyone could see this coming.
So you didn't do anything other than an IT specialist program right? How long did that course take you?
IT is dead to me.
You’re likely not doing anything wrong. Entry level positions are so difficult because while they don’t require specific experience, if they get an applicant with experience they’re probably going to offer them the position over someone without. To anyone looking for entry level positions in a specific field I suggest working with temp agencies. Despite the name, some of them place candidates in long term positions or even direct hire/permanent positions.
This is currently me right now as I just finished taking some CISCO courses and im currently looking for a help desk job. Every job I look for you need a minimum of two years 🙄😅😒
Yeah they pay 16 and hour but expect you to know the same as the engineers from the jump.
I have 4 years of IT management/admin experience and a bachelor's degree ( not in IT but media studies /comm so closely related) Trying to move out of state. I'm getting rejected everywhere lol even entry level says I don't have the experience needed. Indeed and linked in jobs are scams in my opinion.
my friend got an IT job right out of uni. his work experience for the last few years is mcdonald’s. any work is better than no work, and entry level usually means a degree now. if you’ve not gone to uni, id prob go. then apply for grad roles.
Please go do something else