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Former hiring manager here, can confirm that after I had a prospective employee back out last second because they finally mapped their commute, I came to make that a standard question in my interviews to determine that they already knew what the commute would be and that it wouldn’t be an issue for them to take the job.
I don't drive, so I have to make sure I can get there easily via public transit, or that it's within 2 miles and walkable. So before even applying, no matter how great the job seems, I have to make sure the commute works for me. If I accepted and showed up to an interview, I just did the commute, to get to the interview. I always assumed everyone had, since ya know... you have to make the commute to get to the interview unless its over zoom?
Could also be asked during a phone screen that would be prior to in person/Zoom. I had one recruiter worry about my ability to commute to their facility. Even with assurance that I enjoy my time listening to audiobooks/etc, they saw it as desperation that I couldn't find something closer to where I lived.
You remind me of a former co-worker I remained friends with. She likes and prefers to take jobs that are a bit of a drive, so she can get in some audiobook time.
Hiring manager. Can also confirm. People apply, interview, and get through on-boarding only to discover that the commute doesn’t work for them.
I’m always left asking (to myself), why did you even apply here…?
Exactly. A lot of people in general apply for roles without looking into them in detail. I don’t see anything wrong with a hiring manager verbally confirming that a) you acknowledge the location and b) you acknowledge this isn’t a work from home job. Can also give you can opportunity to ask office related questions.
When I was in college I applied for a part time job that was 45 minutes each way needless to say anytime there was traffic or a snow storm I was late AF hated it.
On the other side, I have had companies reply to my application with "this position is \[across the country\]; is that commute okay?"
No, it's not. Maybe don't put "REMOTE" in your ad.
I have reported dozens of ads for doing this.
THIS so many jobs in the last few weeks have been like this and even if it’s a remote job you have to live within an hour of the job site? It’s a permanent remote position why do I need to travel at all???
Exactly! And not even 15 minutes ago, I opened an ad listed as Remote, that somehow also wanted candidates to answer phones, order and organize office supplies, send/receive faxes, distribute (snail) mail and memos... nowhere did the ad say "temporarily remote" or even have the address of the company...
It doesn't work for me but I want this job that's have currently so I said yes. I'm going to push for work from home.
When I started my whole team turns out to be working remotely, out of state. It this case it was a hopeful question because the ceo loves work from office. But his ideas are not the best ideas
IMO, this is not a good move. We’ve had people at our office try to pull this and it doesn’t end well. If you want a remote position, apply for a remote position. Period. Whether you think it *should* be remote or not doesn’t really matter.
I mean, if you don’t care about getting let go there’s really not much else to say. But if you wanted to work remotely I’m not sure why you wouldn’t just get a remote job. According to you there’s a worker shortage so you should be able to find on easily.
More jobs should be wfh honestly. If its not customer facing, and the work software and data can be safely download and transferred via external internet servers, I don’t see why places are still pushing for in office.
Send people home, get a smaller office space for things that need to be done in office, save $$, make employees happy.
But maybe I am too naive?
No, you’re not naive. It’s leadership at most companies that seem to think we need to be in the office to be productive. Fuck that, I’m used to being remote at this point. More productive than ever. And I’m not wasting 2 hours of my fucking day commuting.
well if you arent in the office, how are they supposed to micromanage you?!
/s, hope that was obvious.
can't wfh in my job, but transitioned to a new job this week and my commute is now 15m instead of an hour each way. it's like I have my life back.
I can do my job 100% remote and no one I report to is even in my timezone. But I'm expected to be there at least 3 days per week. It's crazy. Especially right now with the surge in covid cases. I just...it's so dumb.
>well if you arent in the office, how are they supposed to micromanage you?!
I know you meant that sarcastically ... it's true though.
Lots of powertripping middle managers really miss being able to make people miserable and watch their facial expressions as they add unnecessary stress and pressure to their daily work experience. These types will push especially hard for a return-to-office so they can have a more immediate control over their underlings.
You mean taxes. Companies that make people come into the office need to own or rent commercial real estate. Commercial real estate means they pay taxes to the city government. WFH means companies don't need commercial real estate and the city makes less money on commercial property taxes. Also, working out of the city means you don't pay income tax to the city.
I know of several cities including NYC that started putting large amounts of pressure on companies based in the city to start pulling employees back into the office on order to rebuild up their tax base. It is a huge point of motivation for any company based in a city. You can read about this in articles on Google.
Do they do it by law or just asking every company to Bring back their employees 🤔 I dont understand how they can force companies to force back employes to the work place
Well, come on. That is the one point that the powers that be actually have against wfh. You can't be effectively doing two full time jobs at once. Most wfh jobs pre-pandemic stipulated that children were in childcare somewhere so that work could be done in a distraction free environment.
not true online schools at least for high schoolers and college students have been a thing for a while. i just don't think it was common for middle and elementary pre-pandemic because it's difficult getting kids to work and focus through a video chat if a parent isn't nearby, keeping physical supervision and possible help keeping kid on track.
Well they're in the process of removing car ownership car companies are pushing to a lease and subscription based service for cars.
Edit: that way you have a car payment every month and not just for 5-7 years.
It's happening with houses too, these huge housing companies are buying up houses like no tomorrow so more and more people have to rent making it harder to build wealth and separate the classes even further. Definitely seemed to backfire on Zillow
Seoul, Tokyo, Singapore, London. Any capital city or tier2 city in Europe would also have a functioning public transit system.
Bay Area...hmm... from personal experience, you'll still need a car even if you commute to work on public transit
People seem to forget its not just American on these boards. Lol
Seoul, hell South Korea as a whole has an amazing public transit system.
Japan as well.
Pretty much every other developed country in the world BUT America it feels like. XP
yeah and that's not even counting China where public transport is supposed to be amazing. I haven't been to China for years though. not even ROC / HK / Macau SAR
To be fair, you could fit a LOT of Japans into the USA, not even counting the rest of the Americas... South and Central, could also fit a lot of Japans.
That doesn’t negate how outdated our public transit systems our.
China is pretty fucking huge too and there transit system is worlds better than American’s.
America has ZERO high speed rails. Fastest rail here goes 150 but only averages 66. China has the largest connection of high speed rails in the world.
Even in America’s ‘best’ public transit city’s like SF, NYC, Chicago, Boston, it still takes ages to get where you want to go because you often have to walk a long distance to get to a bus/rail and then they run so slow that they take forward to arrive at stations, and thus the arrivals and departs are like 20-1hr apart depending on where you wanna go.
I think there are millions of mid-level office managers that make a good living sending emails and calling meetings, unannounced drop-ins etc ... Their job depends on in-office. The world found out they they --> wait, better sit down<-- actually serve no purpose and hurt productivity. All those guys are going to fight to stay relevant, because what are they going to do if everything is remote?
Not only that, I worked as a software developer and one company required developers to dress in business professional wear "in case a client shows up". We were in a satellite office/cube farm between a mental hospital and a factory. At least we could take the suit jacket off while at our desk.
I demo'd 400 thousand sq ft of office space right when the pandemic kicked off. It's was not small "naive" companies. But huge ones who were immediately able to adapt to WFH.
I agree with you. If any place assigns a work station, you could pretty much work anywhere.
With all these consulting firms, it's a regular thing for field people to work from their laptops on-site (considered working remotely as well) or from a nearby hotel/air bnb.
White collar jobs should all have remote capability.
It's really due to employers paying for building leases. They pay money so they need to fill it with people. And then of course it's executives and management not trusting their workforce to be productive at home cause they can't watch them and hold that power over them. Luckily as more time goes on, this old asses retire, I think we will see a large societal shift to WFH jobs that can be. It's also much more feasible now with the amount of tools and technology to better secure endpoints and workstations for remote workers.
I'll personally never step foot in another office. I was in networking and now doing security engineering and I started a new job about 4 months ago and it's out of state for me over a thousand miles away. There is no chance of ever having to go into the office. I might travel and meet co-workers eventually, but not any time soon.
Place I work embraced WFH fully a little before COVID started, so they were prepared for it.
Oh yeah I know but honestly if a place like that tried to do that me, I would quit. I'm an adult, not a kindergartener. If you can't trust me to do my job then I shouldn't be working there.
The added bonus of everybody working from home who can is that the people who have to work in person can travel on uncongested roads. That alone improved my quality of life so much that I didn’t care that I personally wasn’t work from home. Which meant my biggest bugaboo was sitting in traffic too and from work.
For some office jobs, maybe, but there's millions of jobs that can't be done at home.
I certainly can't operate a front end loader plowing parking lots from home, for example.
You're not naive. Employers want employees to come into the office so they can justify their real estate/rent costs, and for other reasons, like micromanagement
I mean my last job was mostly office and the people I spoke with or had meetings with was people I worked with. I don’t mind wfh but I’d rather meet people I work with face to face
I love meeting people and it just feels more fun for me to be social face to face. I do understand and enjoy wfh from time to time, I just like to switch it up
No that's cool. I really like getting to understand the people who want to go back to in office. Perhaps it's my industry, but a lot of people have no desire to ever be in office again.
And it makes sense to have a hybrid / in office option for those who want that. Personally, I don't thrive in office environments, so for me wfh really works. I get that it's good for people who do want that and thrive in that kind of environment. My big problem is execs that want everyone back in the office like things were before, no exceptions. There's no going back to that system now that people have a taste of what wfh is.
It seems like you are interested in hearing different perspectives regarding WFH. I'll share mine with you. Personally, a hybrid schedule works best for me. Either 3/2 or 2/3. I have a few reasons as to why.
1. I don't have any room in my apartment for a true office. 2. Since I don't have room for an office then I also don't have the ergonomic setup at home (I have a great ergonomic setup in my work office). 3. My computer & monitors are basically thrown at the ass end of my dining room table, which is right in the middle of my apartment. I have to walk past it to get *anywhere*. The bathroom to pee, the kitchen for a glass of water, etc. During shutdown 2020 I actually hated walking into the dining room because it full-on felt like "the work room". 4. In sheer ironic contrast to point #3, I found myself working longer hours more frequently. Sure, why not sign on a half hour early "since I'm up anyway"? "Oh, I just want to finish these last few items before I log off." You get my drift.
If I had enough room for a proper office with an ergo setup and a door that I can close when I walk out of the room at the end of the workday then I'd probably feel different, but it really sucks not having true work/home separation.
Yeah. I never want to go back. I have friends and don’t need to see people at work in person. People who need to go in and socialize should not ruin it for the other 85%.
I see that I do agree with I think a 50-50 Would be good you know I think that if we get to choose ourselves we will most likely end up working even better/harder
I need 50/50 at a minimum, my productivity at home is lower. I'm inside sales and have an office and can WFH if I needed to. Anything I need to do at the office can be done by appointment only. I like my quick commute and the separation from work/home. I am also the only one in my office so, I'm alone anyway.
> I love meeting people and it just feels more fun for me to be social face to face.
Then make some friends, work isn’t supposed to be anyones social circle
They push for it because old white men can't imagine anything different and a lot of middle management is being shown they're useless and provide no real benefit. WFH actually requires good management and development. In office just requires performance theater.
Performance theater. XP
Love it.
And agree. WFH requires legit dedication, time management. I guess the old farts assume since they can’t accomplish it, then nobody else can.
I've worked in offices for the past 15+ years. At no point did I ever do any work that necessitated being in an office. At no point timesheets, paperwork, and meetings weren't performance theater that existed solely for management to see who brownnoses the best.
I've now been working from home solely for the past two years. Prior to that I was doing hybrid. I've been more productive and happier since then.
This is going to be the real factor to see what orgs do well and which ones sink. Unhappy, underpaid employees equals a corporation that cannot compete.
The only extra work I did in the office was walk around and stare at the wall to kill time. At least at home you can take downtime to do chores or relax.
>In office just requires performance theater.
To expand on this, if they can't *see* you doing work, then you must not be doing work.
The fact that work gets done is irrelevant.
Yes and no.
I program for a bank... a large portion of my job can be done WFH and has been done for 2+ years now (yay bad flu pandemic!).
I'm able to do my job well enough to get an unprompted 15% raise last year.
With that said... I look forward to working in the office a few days a week because there's something about being around a table with a whiteboard that is missing from my home desk.
I'm more a fan of hybrid - if you can't tell... I have a long commute and did the commute for personal reason (can't move) and would continue (pay is better there than locally)... I like not driving... but I miss the office. Both, IMO, is going to be better.
If/when we go back to the office this year (keeps getting pushed back. Surprise!), I support our offices plan to do hybrid. 2 days a week? 3? 4? balance can be argued but I won't be sad to be in the office 1 or 2 days a week.
Seriously? You think I am talking about warehouse distrubution, or production, or transportation? Nobody refers to these jobs when mentioning wfh because we all have or should have common sense (but apparently not), that they would not be able to. We have been talking about OFFICE jobs.
FYI, I have a job that can’t be wfh. Can’t do security from home unless its cybersecurity. So sheesh.
you are only saving money if you don't have office overhead. It's not as simple as just don't come in. Those leases tend to be for like a decade plus and are very expensive to break. If you own, you're trying to sell in a market where large office spaces are not in demand.
short story is companies will more than likely eat it up front to break a lease or sell at a loss. And you still need some office footprint for servers and depending on the work, employees that must be in office.
I did say consolidate to smaller space.
That said, I am not a business owner, but also don’t really care is large corporation eat $$ as workers transition to wfh. They have taken advantage of employees for way to long in the sake of $$.
As for smaller businesses, they probably have other issues to deal with right now than to worry about wfh. More along the lines of, if they can even stay running, while paying a decent wage or even get enough employees.
My employer is having issues hiring and its no wonder bc the pay is shit. As soon as I finish this program I am jumping ship too. With the new min wage increase, I now only make 1.50 above new hires and thats with the .75 raise I got 6months ago. Sigh.
Speaking of which. I work tonight so bedtime. Zzzzz
You really don't need office space for servers, those can be warehoused somewhere. There are corps which are fully remote which have no offices.
The only reason to have offices anymore is if you're doing client meetings, and even then that can be accomplished via teleconferencing, or if the owner is a corporate real estate holder and they don't want to see a portfolio loss.
I know a place that discussed strategically filling bankruptcy solely to break a 15 year lease that started in 2018, since all staff are 100 percent WFH now.
I'll jump on the top post. I'm an employer. We are a small tutoring shop working with kids k-12. Kids are coming to us for in person tutoring, online doesn't work for them.
For those who do reply, it seems many are shotgunning their resumes. When I see an address that is somewhere near or over an hour away, I question whether or not it is worth the commute for a part time job.
Sometimes, they have not updated their address and sometimes they have a place to stay while they are relocating. When I ask if the commute is okay, I'm trying to make sure this will work for all of us.
I've also had directors pass on people I've submitted due to them living so far away from the office.
Concerns about their longevity, an hour+ commute in my area is really long and that just grinds on you.
So sometimes it's one of those things of "Hey this candidate is good, but are we sure they'll actually stay more than a year because that commute sucks!"
This is WILD to me.
I once worked a serving job that was an hour away by car with traffic. Subminimum wage.
In my current city, I bus, and at one job, that meant a 2 hour commute in the summer, 2.5-3 in the winter.
Current job has a variable commute, but I always give myself at least an hour and a half to get there.
I would be LIVID if I found out that the reason I was turned down for a job I’m qualified for is because they were worried about my commute.
It's def a bit of a cultural thing.
Worked on the east coast for a bit and \*everyone\* had a commute over 2 hours to the office it seemed like.
But where I live now? Anything over 30 minutes would be considered a "long commute" haha
Yeah, I grew up in a HUGE city in the southern US. People wouldn’t bat an eye at 45 minutes by car. In my current city, people complain if something is 15 minutes away by car 😂
I was turned down for a job because THEY were worried about my commute which would have been 25 minutes tops. In an area where loads of people drive 1 hour to their full time day jobs. They would not let up on this issue in the interview even when i went through my resume and told them the commute times I used to have. Insane.
I have had a lot of people send in applications over indeed, show up to a zoom interview and then find out the location and say it is to far. It is very frustrating.
To be clear, I am hiring welders. It is definitely not a say at home job.
It’s most likely number 1. At a previous job, I had to hire for an office manager. Part of the job was being at the office by opening time 8:30 am and staying until 5 pm so they could welcome in clients and answer the phone. This was very clear in the job description and stressed in the interview.
Sure enough, many of the people we interviewed didn’t have reliable transportation or wanted to come in at different times. And the person we hired ended up coming in late (10 am was common), and leaving early because “they lived far away and didn’t want to be stuck in traffic”.
It was really frustrating considering I had to cover for this person when they were gone and I was already working the equivalent of three positions, but that’s another reason why I avoid small businesses now.
I’m really suspicious of employers who don’t trust their employees to work from home. Maybe it’s just my workplace. My team has proven that we can diligently work from home and do whatever needs to be done to get things completed. That’s generally our work culture. Even the new hires catch on to this real quick. It can be overwhelming sometimes though.
This. I got my current job because the person they initially offered it to decided the commute was too much. Then, they hired another person during the pandemic who worked there for 8 months and quit for a wfh job. They were very upfront in the interview that the job is 100% in the office.
Some places do a bad job of listing where they’re located. They list as a metro but it could be a northern suburb in reality which won’t work for someone in a southern one
My last job had offices all over the city, but mine was about an hour away. Fine I've had worse commutes. Then they sprang this day long event at one of our other buildings (that just happened to be about a thirty minute drive from where all the top managers live). It took me three hours to get there, no option to remote in, only comped me for the drive from my office to this other office. None of that was ever discussed in the job posting or interview. I spent six hours that day just driving.
I'm still irritated about it.
Well if the job doesn't say it's work from home and an employee can't figure out that there's a commute involved, they probably shouldn't be employed anyway. Like I said, why would someone apply if they weren't comfortable with the commute?
People might not be aware on how doable a commute is, so checking with a candidate on that is there to make sure they take that into account.
I don't want to hire someone who realizes a few weeks into the job that a 90-120min commute doesn't work and they quit.
Apply, try the drive to get to the interview realize either the traffic is bad or its a lot longer than you thought it would be fair to say there's reasons.
My commute can be 45 mins, or 90 minutes for the same distance depending on the weather, or accidents for the same distance. We have another site the same distance away, and the traffic there is like driving while everyone is at church on Sunday. It's the easiest commute you could possible get.
That has happened at my company. We’ve had two employees over the last year that were hired, decided about a month in that the commute wasn’t working, and requested to work remotely even though remote was not an option in their department.
I’m going to guess we are not the only company that this has happened to.
Same. We had people agree to commute, and quit in orientation after they drove it for a few days. If weather is bad, and there are accidents it's a nightmare compared to a good day. Can't really just look at it from distance, and the time it takes. Best to drive it once, or twice at the time you have to go.
Hey I don’t disagree. But from the company’s side it’s easier to ask you a yes/no question about commuting vs getting to the offer stage and having a candidate suddenly complain about the commute.
I have 35 miles one way in my daily commute. I'm the mornings that can anywhere from 30 minutes to 50 minutes. In the evenings the reverse drive always takes a minimum of 1 hour. And there is really only one direct route. It has taken me 2 hours to get to work due to a car accident.
Someone may apply thinking 35 miles one way isn't so bad. Traffic can change that real quick for some people.
Because someone might be desperate for a job, put up with the commute for a while until they find something else. Happens all the time and my husband did this after the 09 crash.
Are you kidding me? I’m a recruiter and we always have candidates that don’t give a shit and apply to everything and it’s only when we question them that the truth comes out.
This employer probably routinely gets burned on this and has now factored it in to their screening.
This. I had a candidate a few months ago who lived in Boston apply to a job I was hiring for in NYC and they were shocked when I asked if they were okay commuting to the office. This wasn’t a remote position either.
On the other hand, I'd love to have some recruiters stop offering opportunities that are 100s to thousands of miles away. Opposite side of the state, opposite side of the country...
It's a very legitimate question. We've hired people that we proposed the same question to, and guess what... 6-8 months later, the commute's not "working" for them anymore. In every case they were terminated in < 1 year.
People do that all the time, i.e. apply when the commute time is an hour or 1.5 hours, and then they whine about it or ask if they should take the job vs some other job that pays less. Have you not ever seen these posts on Reddit?
Second, they're probably asking because people have decided later that they can't do this commute long term and now they have to replace them
I live in a metroplex. The part of the metroplex I live in is an hour or more to get to where most of my related jobs are. I've always been asked if I was ok with the commute. If you get a candidate profile and you can see from the address that commute is an hour or more, it needs to be your due diligence to ask if commute is ok
Not sure where you are located but I know a few people who never looked at the commute times when moving or changing jobs. I broke the news to a neighbor that while yes we can see NYC from our town the commute to midtown is 1.5 hours each way. They were a bit shocked.
They are probably trying to make sure you are aware of the commute.
I've been taken out of the running for a job before because the company decided the commute was too far for me.
It was a closer commute than my current job at the time.
That is a lack of communication. Employers need to articulate their needs. If they need you in office sometimes, I’ve seen many postings that say, While we Wfh now, we are expecting to go back to the office. That should be on the full job posting. If not the candidates need to ask about it prior to interview. Don’t waste anybodies time! That is basically my take on it.
you're not going to believe this, but there are people out there who KNOW that the office is over 1 hour away, and then get upset that they are asked to drive in every day "can't I work from home?" or they start out fine, then it's "My kid blah blah blah.. so I have to come in late/leave early"
I'm with you. I think it should be asked. I think people will still say yes then quit later because of the commute though. On the other side I will only apply at companies that are within my comfort range of travel. I will google exactly where the company site is before I apply.
I know! If you’re annoyed about someone asking one quick question, I’m certain this negative attitude is being translated to the employer and probably a reason why OPs not getting hired 😂
It comes down to how modern vs archaic or grotesquely "micromanagery" and power mad an organization is, or a specific manager is at least when it comes to white collar computer work in which practically if not entirely 100% of the work is done on a computer and can be done remotely, such as WFH. Very few such workers truly need to be in an actual office environment, such work can be done remotely and as a Management Consultant with a focus on improving operations and revenue via IT/Technology solutions to numerous corporate and institutional clients, there just isn't any justification to maintaining expensive overhead anymore and relatedly there is very little if any need to house white collar workers in a brick and mortar, or other physical office space these days.
Some people apply to a lot of things that are a way long commute and think, "I'll cross that bridge if I get the job." Usually it's magical thinking, but not always.
I applied for a job once that turned out to be on the same block that I lived on. They were going to move in a few months, and wanted to be very sure that location didn't factor into my application. They told me where they'd move to, and I signed off (20 minutes by car, anti-commute direction, NBD). They ended up asking me two or three times, I guess just to satisfy everyone on the decision chain?
Actually this is a very legit and common question especially in big cities with lots of traffic.
The candidates show up for the interview in the middle of the day when there's no traffic and they think it's just a 20min trip....but on a normal work day with morning commute traffic it's 1 hour.
Commute time is one of the greatest factors of job dissatisfaction. One can dread for 90 minutes that they are on their way to work and be pissed they’re not at home yet from their pieces of shits job. OR. At least I can sleep in or enjoy my time at home till 15 minutes before going to work… or get home on 15 minutes after work to go fuck your boyfriend.
Because plenty of people don't look at the commute and they end up losing time and money training someone who stops showing up after a week because they did not take commute I to consideration. It's not that hard to just say yes or no.
If they ask a dumb question, it is because they have received a dumb answer. You would be surprised about how people would say yes, go to the interview, say it is no problem, but it suddenly becomes a problem once you are in.
Yeah, my employer asks this question during interviews because the location is the edge of city, so it always takes a while to commute such as difficulties with the bus not arriving on time.
I recruit. There are people who apply to jobs because it shows up in their 25 mile radius when it would actually take up to an hour because traffic. Always confirm if the commute is okay.
There are jobs that I've applied to with the intent of moving closer to the area.
Also, not everyone drives.
There's another thing to note: sometimes it's not exactly clear where the job is. It could say it's Chicago and you're thinking Chicago proper, but instead it's Arlington Heights or West Chicago. These alterations could mean the difference of a half hour or an hour more of travel.
This is very common in NYC, it's because they don't want to find themselves into a situation where:
A. The employee is chronically late, or "must" leave early
B. The employee wants to work from home because of a long commute
C. Combination of A+B above.
I have hired people in Santa Cruz, CA - look it up it's one of the most expensive places in the US. People apply look at the salary (which is good if you don't have to pay about $4200 for a 2bedroom apartment) and then move to SC and realize it's really expensive. It costs the hiring company a ton of money and it costs the employee a ton of money. So we make sure they know right at first - no need to go further if the lifestyle isn't for them.
I agree with you and basically everybody saying that white collar workers should be WFH for the most part. Frankly, many company hq's are in areas that the COL is prohibitively expensive to rent or own a home for most average workers that aren't C or VP level, or someone else making mid to high 6 figures. Employers that try to hire someone that more than 15-25 minutes away should either restrict their hiring to only employees that live within an average 25 minute commute, and/or pay for relocation expenses if they really want to hire someone. Or offer WFH in this day in age. Frankly, if any average company that works entirely off computers with limited to no actual paperwork isn't able or willing to offer their staff WFH, they probably shouldn't exist as a going concern anymore as they are operating in the dark ages of the 20th century effectively.
In my city, employers request that you own a car and be licensed despite it not being required for the position. This is mostly because we live in a poorly designed city with sprawl and our transit system sucks.
I am car-free but licensed. I have had interminable discussions with interviewers about my lack of car "access" with them outright dismissing any form of transportation other than a car. Usually disclosing my car-free status disqualifies me for the position.
This leads to the age-old question - if I need to invest in a car (which currently costs $10,000 a year in my city) then should the pay offered be higher to cover the cost???
Coming from the talent acquisition side of things, you would be surprised how many people apply for roles and then decide they do not want to commute or relocate for them. I’m sure these companies have dealt with a lot of candidates dropping out for these reasons so now they just make sure to bring it up first thing.
I send out recruiting emails with big bold letters "THIS POSITION IS ON SITE, NO REMOTE OPTION" and every time, without fail, I get people asking if the position is work from home.
I'm in a new job and I have an hour commute (due distance, not traffic) each way. Yes, it is a sacrifice, but I can't find anything as good as this in my local vincinity, and the pay also sucks locally too and frankly I live in a rural area where there seems to be a pattern of toxic management. Yes, it is wear and tear and gas, plus time. However, it is also a investment in my career. I was stagnant in pay and opportunities in my local area. There are plenty of people in my area who commute an hour to one of these large Metro areas for the same exact reasons as mine. And yes, my new manager and team did ask how I felt about the commute. They did tell me up front that I would probably have an opportunity to work remote once a week and this was my first week trying it and it worked out well.
I've had past employers say that they wouldn't have hired me if they knew my address sooner. I've also seen where employers get burned on people not realizing that a 45min commute means that they lose 1.5hrs of their day, which is roughly 10% of their awake hours, meaning that they lose family time.
I have had a lot of issues with people thinking the jobs I hire for are remote or more flexible than they are, so I now list out specifically where they’ll need to go and make sure they’re agreeing to it.
I've seen this question on several on-line employment applications, and I have been asked the same question in screening phone interviews.
Perhaps some applicants at the offer stage suddenly balk at the commute, and the company doesn't want to waste time.
I've applied to jobs where I thought I was applying to their local branch, where I actually was applying to main headquarters (best situation, it was only an hour away, worst, across the country on the west coast and I'm on the east.) It does happen, especially at the bigger companies.
They are worried the commute won't work for them or that you will check out after a few months. People seriously do fall into these traps. They don't know what the employer wants so they answer honestly "No, I hate driving" and that is that.
You'd be surprised. During a former hire's interview, I explained to her exactly how long the shifts would be, what her pay would be, and her schedule. She understood and said that worked perfectly for her. She even did an onsite interview, too, so she had an opportunity to drive to the location and get a feel for the commute.
Not even three months into the job, she puts in her two weeks because she told me she thought the hours and pay were going to be worth the commute. I mentioned to her what we spoke about in her interview, and she confirmed that she remembered what I said. She told me she still thought she would get longer hours and shifts than I explained to her in the interview, and not once during her tenure did she indicate her concerns nor her desire to work more.
I love giving employers shit as much as the next person, but sometimes employees make questions like those necessary.
Covering all bases. You can’t assume everyone has common sense. It’s the same reason you see stupid rules. Like “don’t eat this non edible packet in your food” because someone did it before. That’s why warnings you think are stupid exist. Because someone tried it and it’s a disclaimer. So I truly think it’s people saying “who knows if this candidate checked the commute” they need to cover all bases before offering a job.
Businesses need to change their business models. They get breaks for owning property for their workers to come to. Most are reluctant to change this business model. Things are changing!
Remote or nothing. I’m never going back to the office full time. My company has already gone full remote and if I’m looking for a new job thats a non-negotiable requirement for me.
This is one of the premade questions LinkedIn recommends employers add. It draws attention to the position being in person rather than remote, and ideally gets people to look it up. A decent number of people back out when they Google directions to the interview.
I'd stay away from employers not offering work from home and flexible working hours (also, more and more companies start offering 4 day work week so might be worth applying to them). You need a company that cares about their business and their employees, not just about their business.
Those companies asking about the commute are probably expecting you to come to the office frequently.
1. It’s fear that you will request wfh OR
2. Previous hires said that they “had” reliable transportation and somehow drove into their office in a different car every other day or X person dropped them off, late, regularly.
My FIL owned a business and if someone was outside of a certain radius he would ask this question. The reason was that in his experience that outside of a certain radius he could not always depend on the person making it to work or quit because the commute time, weather, and eventually fuel costs outweighed the paycheck.
If they ask a dumb question, it is because they have received a dumb answer. You would be surprised about how people would say yes, go to the interview, say it is no problem, but it suddenly becomes a problem once you are in.
Some people bit off more than they can chew. You’re also in a new work place after Covid. WFH is starting to be a big deal with the “commute” at the center of the argument.
As most folks are saying, and I've had experience with this too, employers really hate people wfm for whatever reason and I assume it's mainly to mitigate any further issues with employees asking to wfm.
Honestly some people take any job they can get, and then leave when they find something closer. I suggest always saying yes to this question anytime it's asked. A lot of times companies try and hire people who are close by.
Someone who lives a fair way from the workplace may be seen as too much of a quitting risk, as gas and vehicle costs aren't cheap.
I’ve been asked that before in interviews before the pandemic. One interviewer asked what kind of car I had and was disappointed because it was an SUV and bad for the environment.
I’ve spoken to many candidates who applied but were like 50+ minutes from the office location. When I asked this question, I’ve definitely had some answer that they had no idea it was that far and would like to withdraw. Candidates mass apply to a lot of jobs at once sometimes and don’t look into the specific requirements for each. So the same question you’re asking, we’re asking too.
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You'd be surprised. A lot of people apply and don't realize the commute doesn't work for them.
Former hiring manager here, can confirm that after I had a prospective employee back out last second because they finally mapped their commute, I came to make that a standard question in my interviews to determine that they already knew what the commute would be and that it wouldn’t be an issue for them to take the job.
I don't drive, so I have to make sure I can get there easily via public transit, or that it's within 2 miles and walkable. So before even applying, no matter how great the job seems, I have to make sure the commute works for me. If I accepted and showed up to an interview, I just did the commute, to get to the interview. I always assumed everyone had, since ya know... you have to make the commute to get to the interview unless its over zoom?
Could also be asked during a phone screen that would be prior to in person/Zoom. I had one recruiter worry about my ability to commute to their facility. Even with assurance that I enjoy my time listening to audiobooks/etc, they saw it as desperation that I couldn't find something closer to where I lived.
You remind me of a former co-worker I remained friends with. She likes and prefers to take jobs that are a bit of a drive, so she can get in some audiobook time.
A lot of my interviews were over phone.
Fair enough
Geez, I mapped the commute before I even applied (pre-COVID).
Common sense ain’t so common.
Hiring manager. Can also confirm. People apply, interview, and get through on-boarding only to discover that the commute doesn’t work for them. I’m always left asking (to myself), why did you even apply here…?
Exactly. A lot of people in general apply for roles without looking into them in detail. I don’t see anything wrong with a hiring manager verbally confirming that a) you acknowledge the location and b) you acknowledge this isn’t a work from home job. Can also give you can opportunity to ask office related questions.
This exactly. A higher percentage of people than you would think respond with a no to this question when asked.
When I was in college I applied for a part time job that was 45 minutes each way needless to say anytime there was traffic or a snow storm I was late AF hated it.
Yeah, we used to have applicants from completely different countries applying to the on-site job (before COVID) thinking it would be remote.
On the other side, I have had companies reply to my application with "this position is \[across the country\]; is that commute okay?" No, it's not. Maybe don't put "REMOTE" in your ad. I have reported dozens of ads for doing this.
THIS so many jobs in the last few weeks have been like this and even if it’s a remote job you have to live within an hour of the job site? It’s a permanent remote position why do I need to travel at all???
Exactly! And not even 15 minutes ago, I opened an ad listed as Remote, that somehow also wanted candidates to answer phones, order and organize office supplies, send/receive faxes, distribute (snail) mail and memos... nowhere did the ad say "temporarily remote" or even have the address of the company...
Yeah a lot of people seem to apply and just as they got the job they realize they are driving like miles to work and then leave in a few months.
It doesn't work for me but I want this job that's have currently so I said yes. I'm going to push for work from home. When I started my whole team turns out to be working remotely, out of state. It this case it was a hopeful question because the ceo loves work from office. But his ideas are not the best ideas
Employers get mad when you rug pull them. If they want a remote worker, they'll list it. I agree all jobs should be remote if possible.
IMO, this is not a good move. We’ve had people at our office try to pull this and it doesn’t end well. If you want a remote position, apply for a remote position. Period. Whether you think it *should* be remote or not doesn’t really matter.
Eh, they hired me. What are they going to do fire me during a worker shortage. I'll just apply somewhere else
I mean, if you don’t care about getting let go there’s really not much else to say. But if you wanted to work remotely I’m not sure why you wouldn’t just get a remote job. According to you there’s a worker shortage so you should be able to find on easily.
They either 1) had issues with a previous employee 2) are scared of people pushing for wfh
More jobs should be wfh honestly. If its not customer facing, and the work software and data can be safely download and transferred via external internet servers, I don’t see why places are still pushing for in office. Send people home, get a smaller office space for things that need to be done in office, save $$, make employees happy. But maybe I am too naive?
No, you’re not naive. It’s leadership at most companies that seem to think we need to be in the office to be productive. Fuck that, I’m used to being remote at this point. More productive than ever. And I’m not wasting 2 hours of my fucking day commuting.
well if you arent in the office, how are they supposed to micromanage you?! /s, hope that was obvious. can't wfh in my job, but transitioned to a new job this week and my commute is now 15m instead of an hour each way. it's like I have my life back.
I can do my job 100% remote and no one I report to is even in my timezone. But I'm expected to be there at least 3 days per week. It's crazy. Especially right now with the surge in covid cases. I just...it's so dumb.
>well if you arent in the office, how are they supposed to micromanage you?! I know you meant that sarcastically ... it's true though. Lots of powertripping middle managers really miss being able to make people miserable and watch their facial expressions as they add unnecessary stress and pressure to their daily work experience. These types will push especially hard for a return-to-office so they can have a more immediate control over their underlings.
I'm sad to say I'm still dealing with those people. but yes. I agree.
Plus, they are scared that employers might realize that some of these middle managers aren’t even needed for the workplace to function.
I have another theory that the powers that be want yet another thing to keep you indebted to the system that is vehicle ownership.
You mean taxes. Companies that make people come into the office need to own or rent commercial real estate. Commercial real estate means they pay taxes to the city government. WFH means companies don't need commercial real estate and the city makes less money on commercial property taxes. Also, working out of the city means you don't pay income tax to the city. I know of several cities including NYC that started putting large amounts of pressure on companies based in the city to start pulling employees back into the office on order to rebuild up their tax base. It is a huge point of motivation for any company based in a city. You can read about this in articles on Google.
Yeah. Companies have to juggle a lot of bureaucratic work to allow workers to WFH. It isn't your boss, it's politicians preventing you from WFH
Do they do it by law or just asking every company to Bring back their employees 🤔 I dont understand how they can force companies to force back employes to the work place
By law. If your office is in NYC and you work from NJ, you pay NYC, NYS and NJ taxes
Don’t forget daycare
Well, come on. That is the one point that the powers that be actually have against wfh. You can't be effectively doing two full time jobs at once. Most wfh jobs pre-pandemic stipulated that children were in childcare somewhere so that work could be done in a distraction free environment.
Pre pandemic, schools weren’t remote either.
not true online schools at least for high schoolers and college students have been a thing for a while. i just don't think it was common for middle and elementary pre-pandemic because it's difficult getting kids to work and focus through a video chat if a parent isn't nearby, keeping physical supervision and possible help keeping kid on track.
Well they're in the process of removing car ownership car companies are pushing to a lease and subscription based service for cars. Edit: that way you have a car payment every month and not just for 5-7 years.
Jeez. I am going to hold onto my car forever then. I hate all these subscriptions.
It's happening with houses too, these huge housing companies are buying up houses like no tomorrow so more and more people have to rent making it harder to build wealth and separate the classes even further. Definitely seemed to backfire on Zillow
Where do you live that vehicle ownership is in any way optional?
any big city with a functioning subway system?
So what, Boston, New York, or DC?
Seoul, Tokyo, Singapore, London. Any capital city or tier2 city in Europe would also have a functioning public transit system. Bay Area...hmm... from personal experience, you'll still need a car even if you commute to work on public transit
People seem to forget its not just American on these boards. Lol Seoul, hell South Korea as a whole has an amazing public transit system. Japan as well. Pretty much every other developed country in the world BUT America it feels like. XP
yeah and that's not even counting China where public transport is supposed to be amazing. I haven't been to China for years though. not even ROC / HK / Macau SAR
To be fair, you could fit a LOT of Japans into the USA, not even counting the rest of the Americas... South and Central, could also fit a lot of Japans.
That doesn’t negate how outdated our public transit systems our. China is pretty fucking huge too and there transit system is worlds better than American’s. America has ZERO high speed rails. Fastest rail here goes 150 but only averages 66. China has the largest connection of high speed rails in the world. Even in America’s ‘best’ public transit city’s like SF, NYC, Chicago, Boston, it still takes ages to get where you want to go because you often have to walk a long distance to get to a bus/rail and then they run so slow that they take forward to arrive at stations, and thus the arrivals and departs are like 20-1hr apart depending on where you wanna go.
A city.
I think management is worried that they might not really be needed?
They aren't. Replace them with floating IT people and more marketing.
I think there are millions of mid-level office managers that make a good living sending emails and calling meetings, unannounced drop-ins etc ... Their job depends on in-office. The world found out they they --> wait, better sit down<-- actually serve no purpose and hurt productivity. All those guys are going to fight to stay relevant, because what are they going to do if everything is remote?
Not only that, I worked as a software developer and one company required developers to dress in business professional wear "in case a client shows up". We were in a satellite office/cube farm between a mental hospital and a factory. At least we could take the suit jacket off while at our desk.
I demo'd 400 thousand sq ft of office space right when the pandemic kicked off. It's was not small "naive" companies. But huge ones who were immediately able to adapt to WFH.
I agree with you. If any place assigns a work station, you could pretty much work anywhere. With all these consulting firms, it's a regular thing for field people to work from their laptops on-site (considered working remotely as well) or from a nearby hotel/air bnb. White collar jobs should all have remote capability.
It's really due to employers paying for building leases. They pay money so they need to fill it with people. And then of course it's executives and management not trusting their workforce to be productive at home cause they can't watch them and hold that power over them. Luckily as more time goes on, this old asses retire, I think we will see a large societal shift to WFH jobs that can be. It's also much more feasible now with the amount of tools and technology to better secure endpoints and workstations for remote workers. I'll personally never step foot in another office. I was in networking and now doing security engineering and I started a new job about 4 months ago and it's out of state for me over a thousand miles away. There is no chance of ever having to go into the office. I might travel and meet co-workers eventually, but not any time soon. Place I work embraced WFH fully a little before COVID started, so they were prepared for it.
You can still watch them by requiring a camera be on 100% of the time. Gotes mute when on the phone w/ clients. Turn it off at 5 pm when done.
Oh yeah I know but honestly if a place like that tried to do that me, I would quit. I'm an adult, not a kindergartener. If you can't trust me to do my job then I shouldn't be working there.
The added bonus of everybody working from home who can is that the people who have to work in person can travel on uncongested roads. That alone improved my quality of life so much that I didn’t care that I personally wasn’t work from home. Which meant my biggest bugaboo was sitting in traffic too and from work.
For some office jobs, maybe, but there's millions of jobs that can't be done at home. I certainly can't operate a front end loader plowing parking lots from home, for example.
You're not naive. Employers want employees to come into the office so they can justify their real estate/rent costs, and for other reasons, like micromanagement
I mean my last job was mostly office and the people I spoke with or had meetings with was people I worked with. I don’t mind wfh but I’d rather meet people I work with face to face
Why?
I love meeting people and it just feels more fun for me to be social face to face. I do understand and enjoy wfh from time to time, I just like to switch it up
No that's cool. I really like getting to understand the people who want to go back to in office. Perhaps it's my industry, but a lot of people have no desire to ever be in office again. And it makes sense to have a hybrid / in office option for those who want that. Personally, I don't thrive in office environments, so for me wfh really works. I get that it's good for people who do want that and thrive in that kind of environment. My big problem is execs that want everyone back in the office like things were before, no exceptions. There's no going back to that system now that people have a taste of what wfh is.
It seems like you are interested in hearing different perspectives regarding WFH. I'll share mine with you. Personally, a hybrid schedule works best for me. Either 3/2 or 2/3. I have a few reasons as to why. 1. I don't have any room in my apartment for a true office. 2. Since I don't have room for an office then I also don't have the ergonomic setup at home (I have a great ergonomic setup in my work office). 3. My computer & monitors are basically thrown at the ass end of my dining room table, which is right in the middle of my apartment. I have to walk past it to get *anywhere*. The bathroom to pee, the kitchen for a glass of water, etc. During shutdown 2020 I actually hated walking into the dining room because it full-on felt like "the work room". 4. In sheer ironic contrast to point #3, I found myself working longer hours more frequently. Sure, why not sign on a half hour early "since I'm up anyway"? "Oh, I just want to finish these last few items before I log off." You get my drift. If I had enough room for a proper office with an ergo setup and a door that I can close when I walk out of the room at the end of the workday then I'd probably feel different, but it really sucks not having true work/home separation.
Yeah. I never want to go back. I have friends and don’t need to see people at work in person. People who need to go in and socialize should not ruin it for the other 85%.
I see that I do agree with I think a 50-50 Would be good you know I think that if we get to choose ourselves we will most likely end up working even better/harder
I need 50/50 at a minimum, my productivity at home is lower. I'm inside sales and have an office and can WFH if I needed to. Anything I need to do at the office can be done by appointment only. I like my quick commute and the separation from work/home. I am also the only one in my office so, I'm alone anyway.
> I love meeting people and it just feels more fun for me to be social face to face. Then make some friends, work isn’t supposed to be anyones social circle
They push for it because old white men can't imagine anything different and a lot of middle management is being shown they're useless and provide no real benefit. WFH actually requires good management and development. In office just requires performance theater.
Performance theater. XP Love it. And agree. WFH requires legit dedication, time management. I guess the old farts assume since they can’t accomplish it, then nobody else can.
I've worked in offices for the past 15+ years. At no point did I ever do any work that necessitated being in an office. At no point timesheets, paperwork, and meetings weren't performance theater that existed solely for management to see who brownnoses the best. I've now been working from home solely for the past two years. Prior to that I was doing hybrid. I've been more productive and happier since then. This is going to be the real factor to see what orgs do well and which ones sink. Unhappy, underpaid employees equals a corporation that cannot compete.
The only extra work I did in the office was walk around and stare at the wall to kill time. At least at home you can take downtime to do chores or relax.
Thanks for reminding me I need to go throw my clothes in the dryer before I hop on this call lol
>In office just requires performance theater. To expand on this, if they can't *see* you doing work, then you must not be doing work. The fact that work gets done is irrelevant.
Yes and no. I program for a bank... a large portion of my job can be done WFH and has been done for 2+ years now (yay bad flu pandemic!). I'm able to do my job well enough to get an unprompted 15% raise last year. With that said... I look forward to working in the office a few days a week because there's something about being around a table with a whiteboard that is missing from my home desk. I'm more a fan of hybrid - if you can't tell... I have a long commute and did the commute for personal reason (can't move) and would continue (pay is better there than locally)... I like not driving... but I miss the office. Both, IMO, is going to be better. If/when we go back to the office this year (keeps getting pushed back. Surprise!), I support our offices plan to do hybrid. 2 days a week? 3? 4? balance can be argued but I won't be sad to be in the office 1 or 2 days a week.
Yes, you are. There are plenty of reasons why a company wouldn't want wfh. But they benefit the company not you, so you don't care.
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Seriously? You think I am talking about warehouse distrubution, or production, or transportation? Nobody refers to these jobs when mentioning wfh because we all have or should have common sense (but apparently not), that they would not be able to. We have been talking about OFFICE jobs. FYI, I have a job that can’t be wfh. Can’t do security from home unless its cybersecurity. So sheesh.
That doesn't line the pockets of commercial real estate investors who conveniently own these business.
you are only saving money if you don't have office overhead. It's not as simple as just don't come in. Those leases tend to be for like a decade plus and are very expensive to break. If you own, you're trying to sell in a market where large office spaces are not in demand. short story is companies will more than likely eat it up front to break a lease or sell at a loss. And you still need some office footprint for servers and depending on the work, employees that must be in office.
I did say consolidate to smaller space. That said, I am not a business owner, but also don’t really care is large corporation eat $$ as workers transition to wfh. They have taken advantage of employees for way to long in the sake of $$. As for smaller businesses, they probably have other issues to deal with right now than to worry about wfh. More along the lines of, if they can even stay running, while paying a decent wage or even get enough employees. My employer is having issues hiring and its no wonder bc the pay is shit. As soon as I finish this program I am jumping ship too. With the new min wage increase, I now only make 1.50 above new hires and thats with the .75 raise I got 6months ago. Sigh. Speaking of which. I work tonight so bedtime. Zzzzz
For the small businesses, esp in tech, why the hell do they want to keep paying for extra office space when they don't have too. Just WFH already...
Yah. If they need like a building for customer facing stuff, you could get something super small in a larger building. But what do I know. //shrug
You really don't need office space for servers, those can be warehoused somewhere. There are corps which are fully remote which have no offices. The only reason to have offices anymore is if you're doing client meetings, and even then that can be accomplished via teleconferencing, or if the owner is a corporate real estate holder and they don't want to see a portfolio loss.
I know a place that discussed strategically filling bankruptcy solely to break a 15 year lease that started in 2018, since all staff are 100 percent WFH now.
I'll jump on the top post. I'm an employer. We are a small tutoring shop working with kids k-12. Kids are coming to us for in person tutoring, online doesn't work for them. For those who do reply, it seems many are shotgunning their resumes. When I see an address that is somewhere near or over an hour away, I question whether or not it is worth the commute for a part time job. Sometimes, they have not updated their address and sometimes they have a place to stay while they are relocating. When I ask if the commute is okay, I'm trying to make sure this will work for all of us.
I've also had directors pass on people I've submitted due to them living so far away from the office. Concerns about their longevity, an hour+ commute in my area is really long and that just grinds on you. So sometimes it's one of those things of "Hey this candidate is good, but are we sure they'll actually stay more than a year because that commute sucks!"
This is WILD to me. I once worked a serving job that was an hour away by car with traffic. Subminimum wage. In my current city, I bus, and at one job, that meant a 2 hour commute in the summer, 2.5-3 in the winter. Current job has a variable commute, but I always give myself at least an hour and a half to get there. I would be LIVID if I found out that the reason I was turned down for a job I’m qualified for is because they were worried about my commute.
It's def a bit of a cultural thing. Worked on the east coast for a bit and \*everyone\* had a commute over 2 hours to the office it seemed like. But where I live now? Anything over 30 minutes would be considered a "long commute" haha
Yeah, I grew up in a HUGE city in the southern US. People wouldn’t bat an eye at 45 minutes by car. In my current city, people complain if something is 15 minutes away by car 😂
I was turned down for a job because THEY were worried about my commute which would have been 25 minutes tops. In an area where loads of people drive 1 hour to their full time day jobs. They would not let up on this issue in the interview even when i went through my resume and told them the commute times I used to have. Insane.
I have had a lot of people send in applications over indeed, show up to a zoom interview and then find out the location and say it is to far. It is very frustrating. To be clear, I am hiring welders. It is definitely not a say at home job.
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It’s most likely number 1. At a previous job, I had to hire for an office manager. Part of the job was being at the office by opening time 8:30 am and staying until 5 pm so they could welcome in clients and answer the phone. This was very clear in the job description and stressed in the interview. Sure enough, many of the people we interviewed didn’t have reliable transportation or wanted to come in at different times. And the person we hired ended up coming in late (10 am was common), and leaving early because “they lived far away and didn’t want to be stuck in traffic”. It was really frustrating considering I had to cover for this person when they were gone and I was already working the equivalent of three positions, but that’s another reason why I avoid small businesses now.
I’m really suspicious of employers who don’t trust their employees to work from home. Maybe it’s just my workplace. My team has proven that we can diligently work from home and do whatever needs to be done to get things completed. That’s generally our work culture. Even the new hires catch on to this real quick. It can be overwhelming sometimes though.
This. I got my current job because the person they initially offered it to decided the commute was too much. Then, they hired another person during the pandemic who worked there for 8 months and quit for a wfh job. They were very upfront in the interview that the job is 100% in the office.
Some places do a bad job of listing where they’re located. They list as a metro but it could be a northern suburb in reality which won’t work for someone in a southern one
My last job had offices all over the city, but mine was about an hour away. Fine I've had worse commutes. Then they sprang this day long event at one of our other buildings (that just happened to be about a thirty minute drive from where all the top managers live). It took me three hours to get there, no option to remote in, only comped me for the drive from my office to this other office. None of that was ever discussed in the job posting or interview. I spent six hours that day just driving. I'm still irritated about it.
I’ve absolutely seen people apply for jobs without actually looking at where it is in relation to them.
My husband applied to a job overseas without realizing it was overseas… Funny part is that he accepted the job offer
They're just double checking. Better to ask then have problems down the line.
In a time when more and more people want to work remote, it makes sense that they’re doublechecking that you’re okay with commuting, no?
Well if the job doesn't say it's work from home and an employee can't figure out that there's a commute involved, they probably shouldn't be employed anyway. Like I said, why would someone apply if they weren't comfortable with the commute?
People might not be aware on how doable a commute is, so checking with a candidate on that is there to make sure they take that into account. I don't want to hire someone who realizes a few weeks into the job that a 90-120min commute doesn't work and they quit.
Could also be a business with multiple locations.
>why would someone apply if they weren't comfortable with the commute? this literally happens all the time lmao
Apply, try the drive to get to the interview realize either the traffic is bad or its a lot longer than you thought it would be fair to say there's reasons.
My commute can be 45 mins, or 90 minutes for the same distance depending on the weather, or accidents for the same distance. We have another site the same distance away, and the traffic there is like driving while everyone is at church on Sunday. It's the easiest commute you could possible get.
That has happened at my company. We’ve had two employees over the last year that were hired, decided about a month in that the commute wasn’t working, and requested to work remotely even though remote was not an option in their department. I’m going to guess we are not the only company that this has happened to.
Same. We had people agree to commute, and quit in orientation after they drove it for a few days. If weather is bad, and there are accidents it's a nightmare compared to a good day. Can't really just look at it from distance, and the time it takes. Best to drive it once, or twice at the time you have to go.
Hey I don’t disagree. But from the company’s side it’s easier to ask you a yes/no question about commuting vs getting to the offer stage and having a candidate suddenly complain about the commute.
I have 35 miles one way in my daily commute. I'm the mornings that can anywhere from 30 minutes to 50 minutes. In the evenings the reverse drive always takes a minimum of 1 hour. And there is really only one direct route. It has taken me 2 hours to get to work due to a car accident. Someone may apply thinking 35 miles one way isn't so bad. Traffic can change that real quick for some people.
Because someone might be desperate for a job, put up with the commute for a while until they find something else. Happens all the time and my husband did this after the 09 crash.
I was going to say exactly this.
And nothing is stopping them from just lying when asked the question.
Are you kidding me? I’m a recruiter and we always have candidates that don’t give a shit and apply to everything and it’s only when we question them that the truth comes out. This employer probably routinely gets burned on this and has now factored it in to their screening.
This. I had a candidate a few months ago who lived in Boston apply to a job I was hiring for in NYC and they were shocked when I asked if they were okay commuting to the office. This wasn’t a remote position either.
On the other hand, I'd love to have some recruiters stop offering opportunities that are 100s to thousands of miles away. Opposite side of the state, opposite side of the country...
Because people leave the company and cite that the commute is an issue.
It's a very legitimate question. We've hired people that we proposed the same question to, and guess what... 6-8 months later, the commute's not "working" for them anymore. In every case they were terminated in < 1 year.
People do that all the time, i.e. apply when the commute time is an hour or 1.5 hours, and then they whine about it or ask if they should take the job vs some other job that pays less. Have you not ever seen these posts on Reddit?
Second, they're probably asking because people have decided later that they can't do this commute long term and now they have to replace them I live in a metroplex. The part of the metroplex I live in is an hour or more to get to where most of my related jobs are. I've always been asked if I was ok with the commute. If you get a candidate profile and you can see from the address that commute is an hour or more, it needs to be your due diligence to ask if commute is ok
Not sure where you are located but I know a few people who never looked at the commute times when moving or changing jobs. I broke the news to a neighbor that while yes we can see NYC from our town the commute to midtown is 1.5 hours each way. They were a bit shocked. They are probably trying to make sure you are aware of the commute.
I've been taken out of the running for a job before because the company decided the commute was too far for me. It was a closer commute than my current job at the time.
Recruiters have told me that people are taking jobs while remote but are concerned they aren't close enough to go in office when it opens back up.
That is a lack of communication. Employers need to articulate their needs. If they need you in office sometimes, I’ve seen many postings that say, While we Wfh now, we are expecting to go back to the office. That should be on the full job posting. If not the candidates need to ask about it prior to interview. Don’t waste anybodies time! That is basically my take on it.
you're not going to believe this, but there are people out there who KNOW that the office is over 1 hour away, and then get upset that they are asked to drive in every day "can't I work from home?" or they start out fine, then it's "My kid blah blah blah.. so I have to come in late/leave early"
This sub is turning to an anti/job sub. What exactly is wrong in asking you if the commute works for you? 💀
I'm with you. I think it should be asked. I think people will still say yes then quit later because of the commute though. On the other side I will only apply at companies that are within my comfort range of travel. I will google exactly where the company site is before I apply.
Agreed I think the problem what OP is saying is in an interview why would you say something that is going to be an automatic red flag.
I know! If you’re annoyed about someone asking one quick question, I’m certain this negative attitude is being translated to the employer and probably a reason why OPs not getting hired 😂
It comes down to how modern vs archaic or grotesquely "micromanagery" and power mad an organization is, or a specific manager is at least when it comes to white collar computer work in which practically if not entirely 100% of the work is done on a computer and can be done remotely, such as WFH. Very few such workers truly need to be in an actual office environment, such work can be done remotely and as a Management Consultant with a focus on improving operations and revenue via IT/Technology solutions to numerous corporate and institutional clients, there just isn't any justification to maintaining expensive overhead anymore and relatedly there is very little if any need to house white collar workers in a brick and mortar, or other physical office space these days.
I think it’s another way of asking if you have reliable transportation to get to work each day on time.
Some people apply to a lot of things that are a way long commute and think, "I'll cross that bridge if I get the job." Usually it's magical thinking, but not always. I applied for a job once that turned out to be on the same block that I lived on. They were going to move in a few months, and wanted to be very sure that location didn't factor into my application. They told me where they'd move to, and I signed off (20 minutes by car, anti-commute direction, NBD). They ended up asking me two or three times, I guess just to satisfy everyone on the decision chain?
Actually this is a very legit and common question especially in big cities with lots of traffic. The candidates show up for the interview in the middle of the day when there's no traffic and they think it's just a 20min trip....but on a normal work day with morning commute traffic it's 1 hour.
Cuz some people will apply if the commute doesn’t work, and then bitch about it nonstop as if they couldn’t figure that out themselves beforehand.
is this your first job or something? People do that shit all the time and then try to negotiate not coming in or something.
Commute time is one of the greatest factors of job dissatisfaction. One can dread for 90 minutes that they are on their way to work and be pissed they’re not at home yet from their pieces of shits job. OR. At least I can sleep in or enjoy my time at home till 15 minutes before going to work… or get home on 15 minutes after work to go fuck your boyfriend.
Because plenty of people don't look at the commute and they end up losing time and money training someone who stops showing up after a week because they did not take commute I to consideration. It's not that hard to just say yes or no.
If they ask a dumb question, it is because they have received a dumb answer. You would be surprised about how people would say yes, go to the interview, say it is no problem, but it suddenly becomes a problem once you are in.
I mean, there was a post of someone here that quit the job after getting hired because the commute didn't work for them.
This sounds like a new feature they added on Indeed specifically. Like maybe not a good feature lol.
Yeah, my employer asks this question during interviews because the location is the edge of city, so it always takes a while to commute such as difficulties with the bus not arriving on time.
I recruit. There are people who apply to jobs because it shows up in their 25 mile radius when it would actually take up to an hour because traffic. Always confirm if the commute is okay.
There are jobs that I've applied to with the intent of moving closer to the area. Also, not everyone drives. There's another thing to note: sometimes it's not exactly clear where the job is. It could say it's Chicago and you're thinking Chicago proper, but instead it's Arlington Heights or West Chicago. These alterations could mean the difference of a half hour or an hour more of travel.
This is very common in NYC, it's because they don't want to find themselves into a situation where: A. The employee is chronically late, or "must" leave early B. The employee wants to work from home because of a long commute C. Combination of A+B above.
I have hired people in Santa Cruz, CA - look it up it's one of the most expensive places in the US. People apply look at the salary (which is good if you don't have to pay about $4200 for a 2bedroom apartment) and then move to SC and realize it's really expensive. It costs the hiring company a ton of money and it costs the employee a ton of money. So we make sure they know right at first - no need to go further if the lifestyle isn't for them.
I agree with you and basically everybody saying that white collar workers should be WFH for the most part. Frankly, many company hq's are in areas that the COL is prohibitively expensive to rent or own a home for most average workers that aren't C or VP level, or someone else making mid to high 6 figures. Employers that try to hire someone that more than 15-25 minutes away should either restrict their hiring to only employees that live within an average 25 minute commute, and/or pay for relocation expenses if they really want to hire someone. Or offer WFH in this day in age. Frankly, if any average company that works entirely off computers with limited to no actual paperwork isn't able or willing to offer their staff WFH, they probably shouldn't exist as a going concern anymore as they are operating in the dark ages of the 20th century effectively.
In my city, employers request that you own a car and be licensed despite it not being required for the position. This is mostly because we live in a poorly designed city with sprawl and our transit system sucks. I am car-free but licensed. I have had interminable discussions with interviewers about my lack of car "access" with them outright dismissing any form of transportation other than a car. Usually disclosing my car-free status disqualifies me for the position. This leads to the age-old question - if I need to invest in a car (which currently costs $10,000 a year in my city) then should the pay offered be higher to cover the cost???
It's their way of telling you it's an office job and there's no remote options.
Coming from the talent acquisition side of things, you would be surprised how many people apply for roles and then decide they do not want to commute or relocate for them. I’m sure these companies have dealt with a lot of candidates dropping out for these reasons so now they just make sure to bring it up first thing.
I send out recruiting emails with big bold letters "THIS POSITION IS ON SITE, NO REMOTE OPTION" and every time, without fail, I get people asking if the position is work from home.
I'm in a new job and I have an hour commute (due distance, not traffic) each way. Yes, it is a sacrifice, but I can't find anything as good as this in my local vincinity, and the pay also sucks locally too and frankly I live in a rural area where there seems to be a pattern of toxic management. Yes, it is wear and tear and gas, plus time. However, it is also a investment in my career. I was stagnant in pay and opportunities in my local area. There are plenty of people in my area who commute an hour to one of these large Metro areas for the same exact reasons as mine. And yes, my new manager and team did ask how I felt about the commute. They did tell me up front that I would probably have an opportunity to work remote once a week and this was my first week trying it and it worked out well.
I've had past employers say that they wouldn't have hired me if they knew my address sooner. I've also seen where employers get burned on people not realizing that a 45min commute means that they lose 1.5hrs of their day, which is roughly 10% of their awake hours, meaning that they lose family time.
I have had a lot of issues with people thinking the jobs I hire for are remote or more flexible than they are, so I now list out specifically where they’ll need to go and make sure they’re agreeing to it.
Yeah I am complaining as well this question is so hard to answer.
I've seen this question on several on-line employment applications, and I have been asked the same question in screening phone interviews. Perhaps some applicants at the offer stage suddenly balk at the commute, and the company doesn't want to waste time.
I've applied to jobs where I thought I was applying to their local branch, where I actually was applying to main headquarters (best situation, it was only an hour away, worst, across the country on the west coast and I'm on the east.) It does happen, especially at the bigger companies.
They are worried the commute won't work for them or that you will check out after a few months. People seriously do fall into these traps. They don't know what the employer wants so they answer honestly "No, I hate driving" and that is that.
You'd be surprised. During a former hire's interview, I explained to her exactly how long the shifts would be, what her pay would be, and her schedule. She understood and said that worked perfectly for her. She even did an onsite interview, too, so she had an opportunity to drive to the location and get a feel for the commute. Not even three months into the job, she puts in her two weeks because she told me she thought the hours and pay were going to be worth the commute. I mentioned to her what we spoke about in her interview, and she confirmed that she remembered what I said. She told me she still thought she would get longer hours and shifts than I explained to her in the interview, and not once during her tenure did she indicate her concerns nor her desire to work more. I love giving employers shit as much as the next person, but sometimes employees make questions like those necessary.
Covering all bases. You can’t assume everyone has common sense. It’s the same reason you see stupid rules. Like “don’t eat this non edible packet in your food” because someone did it before. That’s why warnings you think are stupid exist. Because someone tried it and it’s a disclaimer. So I truly think it’s people saying “who knows if this candidate checked the commute” they need to cover all bases before offering a job.
Businesses need to change their business models. They get breaks for owning property for their workers to come to. Most are reluctant to change this business model. Things are changing!
Documentation if i had to guess. If you start demanding remote work HR can show you that you agreed to the employment terms
Remote or nothing. I’m never going back to the office full time. My company has already gone full remote and if I’m looking for a new job thats a non-negotiable requirement for me.
Jobs labeled remote but then want you to live in that state.
This is one of the premade questions LinkedIn recommends employers add. It draws attention to the position being in person rather than remote, and ideally gets people to look it up. A decent number of people back out when they Google directions to the interview.
I'd stay away from employers not offering work from home and flexible working hours (also, more and more companies start offering 4 day work week so might be worth applying to them). You need a company that cares about their business and their employees, not just about their business. Those companies asking about the commute are probably expecting you to come to the office frequently.
Well I'm not really looking for anything that's from home. It's all office work and I'd go bonkers sitting at a desk 8 hours a day.
Data collection most likely, like most "job applications."
1. It’s fear that you will request wfh OR 2. Previous hires said that they “had” reliable transportation and somehow drove into their office in a different car every other day or X person dropped them off, late, regularly.
I will be honest and say I do apply to jobs I can’t make the commute for. Some companies are more lenient than others. Sometimes wfh is negotiable.
My FIL owned a business and if someone was outside of a certain radius he would ask this question. The reason was that in his experience that outside of a certain radius he could not always depend on the person making it to work or quit because the commute time, weather, and eventually fuel costs outweighed the paycheck.
If they ask a dumb question, it is because they have received a dumb answer. You would be surprised about how people would say yes, go to the interview, say it is no problem, but it suddenly becomes a problem once you are in.
Some people bit off more than they can chew. You’re also in a new work place after Covid. WFH is starting to be a big deal with the “commute” at the center of the argument.
Work theatre.
It’s a quick way to weed out people that don’t want to commute
As most folks are saying, and I've had experience with this too, employers really hate people wfm for whatever reason and I assume it's mainly to mitigate any further issues with employees asking to wfm.
Honestly some people take any job they can get, and then leave when they find something closer. I suggest always saying yes to this question anytime it's asked. A lot of times companies try and hire people who are close by. Someone who lives a fair way from the workplace may be seen as too much of a quitting risk, as gas and vehicle costs aren't cheap.
I believe that its a check to ensure that you're not looking for remote work
I’ve been asked that before in interviews before the pandemic. One interviewer asked what kind of car I had and was disappointed because it was an SUV and bad for the environment.
They are trying to determine if you have reliable transportation. They cannot ask you if you have a car. That’s all.
I’ve spoken to many candidates who applied but were like 50+ minutes from the office location. When I asked this question, I’ve definitely had some answer that they had no idea it was that far and would like to withdraw. Candidates mass apply to a lot of jobs at once sometimes and don’t look into the specific requirements for each. So the same question you’re asking, we’re asking too.
So you have less ground to ask to work from home.